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Showbiz Tonight
Mel Gibson`s Legal Mess; Can Mel Atone?
Aired August 02, 2006 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
A.J. HAMMER, CO-HOST: What Christie Brinkley was still able to do even after learning about her husband`s alleged affair.
I`m A.J. Hammer in New York.
BROOKE ANDERSON, CO-HOST: And Sheryl Crow bounces back from breast cancer and a breakup and snags a new guy.
I`m Brooke Anderson in Hollywood.
TV`s most provocative entertainment news show starts right now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HAMMER (voice over): On SHOWBIZ TONIGHT, another stunning twist in the Mel Gibson Mel-odrama. A rabbi -- yes, a rabbi -- tells SHOWBIZ TONIGHT he wants Mel to come to his temple to prove he`s not anti-Semitic.
Plus, SHOWBIZ TONIGHT tracks down an eyewitness...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He seemed like he had a couple of drinks in him.
HAMMER: ... who was with Gibson just before his drunk driving arrest and his startling anti-Jewish rant.
Also, living "The Da Vinci Code." Tonight, a woman`s startling claim that she really is the descendant of Jesus and Mary Magdalene. But is this lady legit or just pulling some spiritual spin?
We`ll ask her in the interview you`ll see only on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HAMMER: Hello. I`m A.J. Hammer in New York.
ANDERSON: I`m Brooke Anderson in Hollywood.
And we`ve got so much to tell you tonight about the Mel Gibson melodrama.
HAMMER: That`s right, Brooke. We have an exclusive interview with someone who was with Gibson the night he was arrested. And we talk with a rabbi who made a dramatic offer to Gibson.
All that is coming right up.
But first, the news late today that Gibson has now been formally charged with driving under the influence.
Joining me from Hollywood, investigative journalist Jane Velez- Mitchell.
Hey, Jane.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST: Hey. How you doing, A.J.?
HAMMER: I am well.
So what are we talking about here? He`s got the charge against him. How serious is it? Could he be going to jail? Is he losing his driver`s license? What`s happening here?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I spoke to a law enforcement expert who said it would be very, very unlikely that he would go to jail. He`s more likely to have restrictions placed on his driver`s license, be ordered to go to AA, which he says he is already doing some kind of rehab, but this would be court ordered. And he might also have to pay a fine.
The aggravating circumstances, of course, that he was belligerent, that he tried to escape at one point, that he threatened a police officer. But this law enforcement expert tells me that those are probably -- they didn`t come down as charges, as we saw, because that generally gets rolled into the DUI.
HAMMER: So, in terms of what he actually could be facing, are those the Mel Gibson things he will have to deal with, or is that what any everyday person would have to deal with?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think this at this point is what any everyday person would have to deal with. He has already gotten the special treatment. And they`re certainly got going to continue that given the entire world has come down on them for that.
And I think that`s the biggest lesson in this case, is that we all have to look at this being sort of the ultimate example of what happens every day in our society, that people are treated differently depending on who they are. A CEO in a Mercedes-Benz is treated differently than a minority kid who is driving a jalopy. That`s just the way it is. And I think this calls for a certain amount of introspection on all of our parts.
HAMMER: So is that why it has taken so long fo him to have been charged? It`s been over five days.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Most of us would have been brought before the judge a long time ago. I think there was a lot of wheeling and dealing behind the scenes. I think politicians, prosecutors, law enforcement were scratching their heads, saying, "What do we do now? How do we handle this so that it doesn`t make more headlines?"
Mel Gibson has friends in very high places. They were undoubtedly calling in and urging, if not leniency, at least let`s not continue making the headlines with this case.
I think that the powers that be would like to see it go away.
HAMMER: And as you mentioned, a lot of the headlines coming from his anti-Semitic remarks, the ones he made the night that the police first brought him in. But isn`t that really detracting from the fact that, as we see now, he`s been charged with something he was doing that was even perhaps more dangerous, or allegedly so, driving drunk?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, absolutely. I mean, this is the hallmark of alcoholism, profound and incomprehensible demoralization. And it takes many forms.
For some people, it`s having a fatal car accident. So this could have been worse in the sense that he could have killed somebody on PCH.
He suffered this terrible public embarrassment. This is a public relations nightmare for him. Nothing that could be done by the courts could in any way equal what`s already been done to him by himself.
HAMMER: And now it could prove to be a legal nightmare. And SHOWBIZ TONIGHT can now report that Gibson has hired a big-time law firm to represent him. Among those they have represented before, Courtny Love, Tracy Morgan, Tracy Gold. They are known for the celebrity DUI. So he was expecting these charges, it would seem.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, yes, absolutely he was expecting these charges. But the irony here is that he couldn`t really try to get leniency, like have it reduced to reckless driving or something like that, because that would only bring on another public relations storm. So, in essence, they have already played all their cards.
HAMMER: What about the fact, Jane -- and I know this may be striking some personal cords for you, because you`ve been very candid and open with us about your daily battle with sobriety. Is there a part of you that just feels kind of sorry for the guy?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I was very offended by what he said, but there is a part of me, of course. My heart goes out to anybody who is battling with alcoholism.
Again, what happens is that people wake up the next morning and they go, "Who was that person that did all that? That can`t be me."
HAMMER: Right.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And then they realize it was me. And that`s the incomprehensible demoralization of this disease, is that you have no control over your behavior. And it`s very, very frightening.
So, yes, as one person who deals with a daily reprieve, I reach out to him and I certainly do hope that he gets his disease under control.
HAMMER: And once again, Mel Gibson charged tonight.
Jane Velez-Mitchell, thanks for joining us.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you.
ANDERSON: So, it looks like Mel Gibson might have to head to court. But what about the court of public opinion?
Mel Gibson is offering apology after apology for the anti-Semitic statements he made the night he was arrested. And you won`t believe who is giving Mel the chance to atone for his offense.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON (voice over): The anti-Semitic comments Mel Gibson made during his drunk driving arrest are subjecting him to both scorn and ridicule, as we see in this Spike TV ad for its repeat of Gibson`s movie, "Lethal Weapon."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE, SPIKE TV: Before Mel Gibson was a crazy, fanatical lunatic with cop trouble...
MEL GIBSON, ACTOR, "LETHAL WEAPON": Hey, you want to see crazy?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... he was crazy, fanatical, lunatic cop.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE, "LETHAL WEAPON": He may be psychotic.
GIBSON, "LETHAL WEAPON": I`m psycho, but I`m still a cop.
ANDERSON: But through it all, Gibson wants everybody to know that he`s sorry.
HAMMER: Mel Gibson today released an amazing apology.
ANDERSON: Very sorry.
SOLEDAD O`BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Mel Gibson saying sorry... again.
ANDERSON: Really, really sorry.
JOY BEHAR, "THE VIEW": He needs to, like, be welcomed into the Jewish community by a public circumcision.
ANDERSON: Well, maybe not that sorry. But notwithstanding what the ladies of "The View" think, Mel Gibson is apologizing loudly with his most recent statement which says, "I want to apologize specifically to everyone in the Jewish community for the vitriolic and harmful words that I said to a law enforcement officer the night I was arrested on a DUI charge."
And how is his apology playing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I don`t accept his apology.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think he should keep apologizing to the Jewish community.
ANDERSON: Now Mel Gibson is getting a big chance to seek forgiveness from the Jewish community he offended with his remarks. A prominent rabbi, David Baron, has invited Gibson to speak at his Beverly Hills synagogue. And you won`t believe what day he wants Mel to speak -- Yom Kippur, the holiest day on the Jewish calendar.
And good thing for Mel, it`s the Jewish day of atonement.
SHOWBIZ TONIGHT got Rabbi Baron on the phone. I asked him, "What`s with the invite?"
RABBI DAVID BARON, TEMPLE OF THE ARTS: In reading about his desire to express contrition and his desire to speak with members of the Jewish community, I thought it would be an ideal opportunity to really put the challenge to him and see if he is prepared to genuinely reflect on what he -- what he did and what he has to say.
Some of the people in my congregation and among my friends and colleagues think it`s insincere, think it`s a publicity ploy to deal with a moment of drunkenness where he revealed his true self. But I think that`s a little cynical.
In terms of my perspective, I think this is a day that`s about atonement. And if he can take the first steps, I`d much rather have a repentant anti-Semite than an unrepentant anti-Semite.
ANDERSON: Is Mel Gibson considering the offer? His publicists tells SHOWBIZ TONIGHT, "My client has not had a chance to consider Rabbi Baron`s kind offer, nor will he at this time, as it is just way too soon. This is not a quick fix that can nor should be handled in the public arena. This is a process, and in order to do it properly, it will have to take time."
SHOWBIZ TONIGHT hit the streets of L.A. to see what people there think about the prospects of Mel Gibson being the Yom Kippur speaker.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t think it`s appropriate.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t see any reason why he shouldn`t.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t think there is any contrition that can happen quite so quickly, especially on a high holy day.
ANDERSON: From L.A. to the streets of New York, SHOWBIZ TONIGHT is going everywhere to see who is accepting Gibson`s apology.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Actually, as a Jewish person, I don`t. I find that he only apologized because he was forced to.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t think it`s sincere. I know his history and his background, and I don`t think it`s sincere.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think he`s -- he`s a jerk.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everybody makes a mistake. He was drunk.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t really think an apology can excuse much. Being a young person, knowing that when we get drunk, we tend to say what we actually believe, I don`t think an apology is really going to do much good.
ANDERSON: And even the White House is chiming in.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Does the president forgive Mel Gibson or not?
TONY SNOW, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The president believes in the forgiveness of sins for all who seek forgiveness.
ANDERSON: We will have to see if Mel Gibson gets the forgiveness he`s seeking.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: And now SHOWBIZ TONIGHT can report to you that Mel Gibson has been invited to visit the Museum of Jewish Heritage in New York. The museum is also offering to guide Gibson through an exhibition examining Jewish life before, during and after the Holocaust.
So, what do you think about all of this? Will you forgive Mel? It`s our SHOWBIZ TONIGHT "Question of the Day." Mel Gibson: Do you accept his apology?
Go to cnn.com/showbiztonight, send us an e-mail -- showbiztonight@cnn.com.
HAMMER: Tony Snow at the White House looked real happy to be getting that question.
Well, we want to remind you, SHOWBIZ TONIGHT can now be seen seven nights a week. TV`s most provocative entertainment news show is right here on you`re weekend. So tune in to SHOWBIZ TONIGHT Saturday and Sunday, in addition to Monday through Friday, at 11:00 p.m. Eastern, 8:00 Pacific.
Well, coming up, what Christie Brinkley was still able to do even though she was dealing with the painful news that her husband was allegedly cheating on her.
We`ve also got this...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He shouldn`t have been driving because he was -- he was definitely intoxicated.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: A SHOWBIZ TONIGHT exclusive. We catch up with an eyewitness who was with Mel Gibson just before his startling anti-Jewish rant.
And this controversial question: Can the disgusting things Mel said be blamed on alcohol? That`s next.
HAMMER: Plus, living "The Da Vinci Code." Tonight, a woman`s startling claim that she really is a descendant of Jesus and Mary Magdalene.
It`s the interview you`ll see only on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT.
ANDERSON: But first, tonight`s "Entertainment Weekly" "Great American Pop Culture Quiz."
Who is the actor with the most consecutive $100 million grossing films? Is it A, Mel Gibson; B, Harrison Ford; C, Kevin Costner; or D, Tom Cruise?
Think about it. We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: So, again, tonight`s "Entertainment Weekly" "Great American Pop Culture Quiz." Who is the actor with the most consecutive $100 million grossing films? Is it Mel Gibson, Harrison Ford, Kevin Costner or Tom Cruise?
If you answered D, you`re correct, it`s Tom Cruise.
HAMMER: Welcome back to SHOWBIZ TONIGHT, TV`s most provocative entertainment news show.
I`m A.J. Hammer, in New York.
And it`s time now for a story that made us say, "That`s ridiculous!"
You hear the music? Everybody hear the music? Can you whistle along?
Of course that is the "Andy Griffith" theme song. And a Wisconsin couple is such a big fan of the 1960s sitcom, they decided to remodel their home after Sheriff Taylor`s. That`s Andy Griffith`s character. And you`re looking at the pictures here.
But that`s not all. They actually run a bed and breakfast called the Taylor Home Inn, complete with a "Welcome to Mayberry" sign. Mayberry, of course, being the town where the show took place.
But, there is more. The couple met in an Internet chat room for Andy Griffith fans and married back in 2001 -- Brooke.
ANDERSON: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. There is an Internet chat room for Andy Griffith fans?
HAMMER: Hey, there is an "I Love Clogs` Internet chat room, I`m sure. I don`t know from personal experience.
ANDERSON: Something out there for everybody.
You know, this couple, it cost them $250,000 to build and furn this inn. And A.J., you have three choices for a room: Aunt Bee`s, Opie`s or Andy`s.
HAMMER: Oh, well that`s -- that`s a good choice. And I modeled my home after 742 Evergreen Terrace. You`ll have to figure that one out.
But we say this Mayberry madness goes too far, and "That`s ridiculous!"
ANDERSON: Yes.
HAMMER: Well, now SHOWBIZ TONIGHT has some shocking new details about the Christie Brinkley-Peter Cook affair scandal. Christie supposedly knew all about her husband`s affair with a teenager and still plugged away like a complete professional with a really big photo shoot.
Brinkley had a big reunion with some supermodel friends as part of a "W" magazine photo shoot. The models included Christy Turlington, Stephanie Seymour and Naomi Campbell.
At the shoot, which was called "Cover Girls," Brinkley, who is a Cover Girl spokes model, supposedly already knew about her husband`s chaepting. Now, we don`t know if she discussed it with anybody there. Of course, being a professional, you can`t really tell anything from these pictures about that. But for more of the Cover Girl spread, you can grab the September issue of "W" magazine, which will be on newsstands everywhere on August 18th.
ANDERSON: So, here`s a question for you. Should Mel Gibson be forgiven for all he`s said and done simply because he`s an alcoholic? Gibson claims his anti-Semitic remarks were the alcohol talking and not him.
Well, joining us now is the host of "Strictly Dr. Drew" on the Discovery Health Channel, D. Drew Pinsky, who is an addiction specialist.
Dr. Drew, thanks for being here.
DR. DREW PINSKY, "STRICTLY DR. DREW": My pleasure.
ANDERSON: All right. So, can we really write off Mel Gibson`s behavior to alcoholism?
PINSKY: Well, you can`t know really whether or not this was something that he believed or whether it really was just the alcohol talking. The fact is, when people are using large amounts of alcohol or using drugs, whatever the drug is, whether it`s alcohol or other drugs, the brain is on drugs. The brain is not functioning normally, and they will say and do things that they regret profoundly, that they`re highly shameful.
In the case of celebrities, obviously these things are somewhat more public, but it`s really not any different that if they had done something awful in front of their family or their employer or other people that they needed to make amends to. I hope that this is something he didn`t mean, and I have certainly seen people on alcohol say and do awful things that they regret for really the rest of their life. That`s part of the recovery process, is making amends for and coming to terms with the shame and guilt associated with their behavior.
ANDERSON: Well, it`s been said that alcohol is a truth serum. And I want to read to you something that columnist Cindy Adams wrote in "The New York Post" today.
"When one`s drunk, the controls are down and real feelings come out. Let him be a fall-down-in your-own-vomit boozer if he wants to, but spewing hatred is something that would, could and, let`s hope, should spew poison at the box office."
All right, Dr. Drew, is alcohol really a truth serum?
PINSKY: Not really. Listen, it`s something that affects brain function profoundly.
People that are on drugs don`t do things, don`t think -- even -- even when they are mildly intoxicated, if somebody is truly an addict, people don`t understand the fact -- the common public sort of understanding isn`t the understanding that the drug -- that the thinking associated with addiction is profoundly affected. Thinking is part -- or disturbed thinking and thinking at the service of addiction is part of the disease process.
So people think doing things like this, you see them going out and doing these crazy things, he thought that was a great idea. That`s disturbed -- that`s not normal thinking. And he may have thought things were OK to say. Not normal thinking. And things I hope, I dearly hope, that he profoundly regrets now.
ANDERSON: You`ve said that addicts don`t understand the real consequences of their action early in rehabilitation. Well, arguably, Mel Gibson is in the early stages of rehabilitation and his battle.
PINSKY: Right.
ANDERSON: But does that mean that this apology, it`s too soon, that it can`t be sincere this early?
PINSKY: It can be regret. He certainly undoubtedly wishes he hadn`t done those things. But one of the -- and this is sort of hard to understand, but one of the axioms in recovery is that people are not encouraged to make amends, to really go to the people they have harmed and make direct, sincere amends until they have been sober for a while.
It`s very difficult for somebody who is still in their disease to really feel the consequences of what they have done. Their shame is too profound. The disease makes them sort of defensive and maintain certain degrees of denial about what they`ve done.
So, even though on the surface they may have a good deal of contrition, the fact is that they will feel more regret and more -- want to make more amends as time goes along.
ANDERSON: Mel has said, you know, he has struggled with alcoholism for years, all of his adult life. Reports go as far as saying he has been suicidal at times.
Now, are there people who just can`t beat this sort of thing?
PINSKY: There are people who are untreatable. This does not look to me like an untreatable situation.
I mean, people that have no resources, are strung out, down-and-out heroin addicts, who have no access to any kind of treatment and no reason, no meaning in life, those people are very hard to engage in treatment. But somebody who is successful, has people that love them, that have adequate resources to proper treatment, those people can usually be treated quite well.
I will tell you, however, I`ve treated a lot of celebrities, and celebrities often come in with circumstances like this swirling around them. And it`s not necessarily enough to make them better.
The two things that I see repeatedly that motivate people to actually get well is, A, a sense of profound disgust at what they have done, which he may be feeling. That we don`t know. Or, B, a belief, an understanding that they will die if they continue on this present path. Then they start getting better.
ANDERSON: Well, he said -- he said he is in an ongoing rehabilitation program. So we shall see.
Dr. Drew Pinsky, as always, thank you so much for joining us.
PINSKY: My pleasure.
ANDERSON: You can see Dr. Drew`s show, "Strictly Dr. Drew," Tuesday nights at 10:00 on Discovery Health Channel.
HAMMER: Well, the Mel Gibson stuff has people fired up all over the country. So SHOWBIZ TONIGHT hit the hot streets of New York City to get your thoughts on this very hot issue, asking the question: Will you still go see his movies?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s funny. I never really think about boycotting someone by not going to their movies, but this whole incident actually makes me feel twice about it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It would depend on the content of the movie. But if it was something I wanted to see, I wouldn`t let that remark dissuade me from going to see it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, definitely not. I`m not going to support him anymore, because I don`t like anyone who discriminates against another person.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAMMER: This was the question last night for our "Question of the Day."
Got to tell you, we were a bit surprised here by the results. One- sided, with 75 percent of you saying, yes, you will see his movies. Twenty-five percent of you saying no.
Among the e-mails, Terri from Missouri writes, "I don`t care how much he apologizes. I won`t pay to watch one of his movies again."
And Sevil from Virginia writes, "I still love him and wish him a speedy recovery and cannot wait to see his next movie."
ANDERSON: A model and film star who survived a suicide attempt, nine marriages and nine miscarriages finds god to get her through it all. Her amazing story still to come.
Plus, we`ve also got this...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was, like, literally three minutes after I saw him that he got pulled over when he got in his car.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAMMER: A SHOWBIZ TONIGHT exclusive. We catch up with an eyewitness who was with Mel Gibson just before his drunk driving arrest and startling anti-Jewish rant.
That`s coming up.
ANDERSON: Also, Sheryl Crow bounces back from breast cancer and a breakup and snags a new guy. A first look at her revealing and candid interview next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: Singer Sheryl Crow is opening up about her battle with breast cancer and her breakup with her former fiance, Lance Armstrong. In an interview with CNN`s Larry King, Crow said it was of course difficult for her to end her engagement and get diagnosed with breast cancer all in a matter of a few weeks, but that she got through it all with the help of family and close friends.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LARRY KING, HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": Was it unfriendly, the breakup?
SHERYL CROW, SINGER: No, not at all.
KING: Are you friends now?
CROW: I haven`t seen him in a long time, but I think -- yes, I think so.
KING: Did you keep in touch through this?
CROW: I have great respect for him and a deep, deep love. And we just -- you know, like I`ve said a thousand times, we`re just different places in our lives.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Crow also said she is back in the dating scene, has found somebody she likes, and that she does want marriage and kids.
The full interview will air on CNN`s "LARRY KING LIVE." The air date has not yet been set.
HAMMER: Well, tonight, a woman`s startling claim that she really is a descendant of Jesus and Mary Magdalene. It`s the interview you`ll see only on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT.
We`ve also got this...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He shouldn`t have been driving because he was -- he was definitely intoxicated.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: A SHOWBIZ TONIGHT exclusive. We catch up with an eyewitness who was with Mel Gibson just before his drunk driving arrest.
That`s coming up.
HAMMER: Also, penguins really seem to pack them in at the movies. Of course everybody remembers "March of the Penguins," right? Well, Robin Williams and Nicole Kidman head to Antarctica for some more penguin power.
We`ve got that in a "Showbiz Showcase" coming up next.
SHOWBIZ TONIGHT for Wednesday night coming right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HAMMER: Welcome back to SHOWBIZ TONIGHT. It is 30 minutes past the hour. I am A.J. Hammer in New York.
ANDERSON: And I am Brooke Anderson in Hollywood. This is TV`s most provocative entertainment news show.
HAMMER: Well, Brooke, most people know that "The Da Vinci Code" popularized the very controversial theory that has existed for some time, that Jesus and Mary Magdalene actually were married and there is a bloodline. Well coming up in a matter of moments, a woman who wrote a book - the character based on her only - own experiences claims to be a part of that bloodline, a descendant of Jesus and Mary Magdalene. We`ll get to the bottom of that coming up in a few minutes.
ANDERSON: Very interesting. All right, A.J.
Also coming up, we`re going to talk to a model and film star who has survived a suicide attempt, nine marriages, nine miscarriages and so many other horrific things. And she found God to help her get through it all. We`re going to have her amazing story coming up in just a few moments.
But first, a SHOWBIZ TONIGHT exclusive on the Mel Gibson story. We caught up with two women who were eyewitnesses to how Gibson was behaving just before his arrest. But of the women were at Moonshadows, the Malibu restaurant and bar where Mel Gibson spent the evening before he was pulled over for drunk driving.
Here`s what they had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAHAR AFRAND, WAS AT MOONSHADOWS: He shouldn`t have been driving because he was - he was definitely intoxicated. And by the time we left there around, I want to say 1:45 a.m., so - and I heard that he got arrested around 2 or something like that, that was just shocking because I would have thought he would have got someone to take him home or, you know - for somebody or something like that. And he didn`t.
ANDERSON: You said he was slurring his words when you saw him.
AFRAND: Yes. At the point when I was leaving - because I was talking, when my - my boyfriend was talking to him, he - I grabbed his hand - like, I - I went to him, Like, Wow, you`re Mel Gibson. You know, like, kind of grabbed my hand and he`s like, Hi (ph), you know? Like - he was gone. Like, he was very, very intoxicated.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
POLINEH NASSERI, WAS AT MOONSHADOWS: I was surprised that why wouldn`t someone like that hire a driver to come pick him up, just to avoid something like that.
But, yes, I mean - but when we were leaving, he was leaving, too. So I guess it was, like, literally three minutes after I saw him that he got pulled over, when he got in his car.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Now it`s interesting, too, that both women told us that Gibson was being very friendly that night, talking to people, taking pictures with them, and neither one of them saw any sign of the behavior was to come when he was pulled over by the police.
HAMMER: So what`s the Mel Gibson buzz on talk radio? You know everybody is talking about it.
Joining me now from Washington, D.C., Ben Ferguson, syndicated radio talk show host for WOAI AM.
And here in New York, national radio talk host and newsmax.com columnist Steve Malzberg.
Guys, thanks for being with me.
(CROSSTALK)
HAMMER: So Ben, let me start with you. We now know that Mel Gibson has been charged with misdemeanor DUI. But what`s really grabbing headlines are those anti-Semitic remarks that he`s owned up to and apologized for.
Still, a tough pill to follow for a lot of people. Are your listeners accepting his apology?
BEN FERGUSON, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: I think some of them are. I think some of them - as one man said last night, He says, Name anyone that you know that hasn`t said anything that they wish they wouldn`t have said or they didn`t mean while they were drunk. And I think that`s one of the things - you know, some of them are giving him some slack for that.
He came out with a - you know, not one apology, but two. But I do think actions are going to speak louder than words. But by and large, most of the people that listened to the show said, Look, they`re more concerned about the drunk driving part of it and the message that sends. Why did this man put other people`s lives in danger? He can apologize for this; he can go to rehab. But it`s going to take awhile to make it right with the - with the Jewish community. There`s no doubt about it.
HAMMER: Yes. I mean, that`s really what is pushing people`s buttons.
Steve, what are you hearing?
STEVE MALZBERG, COLUMNIST, NEWSMAX.COM: Well, absolutely. And - you know, Mel Gibson, no matter what he said, the first apology wasn`t an apology. He didn`t address these remarks.
The second apology was through this spokesperson also. So he`s never come out and said anything.
Look, he is an anti-Semite. His father is a Holocaust denier. There`s a report out today that says when he gave an interview two years ago to "Reader`s Digest," which was written by Peggy Noonan, there are some outtakes, some unpublished things that he said. He called a Holocaust "a number`s game." He said, Look, after the war it was 12 million. Then it was 6 million. Now it`s 4 million. It`s a number game.
He also said, Sure there was a Holocaust. He said, Lots of Jews died in World War II. But lots of people died in the Ukraine in the 30s from starvation. Lots of people died in the Soviet Union last century, 20 million.
So he`s always downplayed the Holocaust; his father denies it. "The Passion of the Christ" portrayed Jews in a terrible light. This man is an anti-Semite. He can apologize all he wants. It`s not going to change the facts.
HAMMER: Yes, I mean, Ben, you know, as you pointed out, it is one thing to get drunk and say things you don`t mean to say. I mean.
FERGUSON: Yes.
HAMMER: .you get drunk and say, I don`t really love you. Or, You look really ugly today.
But to say something like what he is alleged to have said, Jews are responsible for all the wars in the world - to think that that could be said without any premeditation.
FERGUSON: No.
HAMMER: I mean, come on.
FERGUSON: No, I agree with you on that one. I think that when he came out and he said - when he started talking about this, during his second apology, he said, Look, I got to figure out where this comes from; I got to fix the problem. I want to meet with people. I think that`s PR.
I think a lot of people aren`t forgive him until he comes out and he says - and he actually talks face to face with the community and says, I really am sorry.
I don`t know if he`ll ever change. I don`t know if it`s going to hurt his career. I think there`s some people that won`t like him. But I bet you there`s a lot of people now that are going to be like, you know, What`s he going to do next? What`s he going to talk about? What`s he going to say? And where`s he going to show up once he gets out of rehab?
The problem here is, Is the damage already done? I don`t think it is with his - as many people as people are making it out to be. We love the buzz; we love the news. I mean, we do have a supermodel that snorted cocaine, and now she`s got the best career ever.
(CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: So who knows?
HAMMER: I don`t think that`s the same thing. I mean, you know - OK, so Kate Moss is who I believe you`re talking.
FERGUSON: Yes.
HAMMER: That alleged to have been doing cocaine and caught on - on film doing that. OK, so she`s not a good role model.
We`re talking about something completely different.
(CROSSTALK)
MALZBERG: That`s not even apples and oranges. That`s apples and - and bugs. I mean, that`s ridiculous.
The fact of the matter is here, He can`t go anywhere; he can`t run away now. Is it going to hurt his career? No. The people that have the - the record number of people that bought his DVD for "Passion of the Christ," they`re not going to burn it and throw it away. And that`s a sad commentary on our society.
Look, we just had a woman killed in a Jewish center in Seattle, and five other women injured critically because they`re Jews. We have a worldwide epidemic of anti-Semitism, and Mel Gibson makes these remarks. He can apologize all he wants. He`ll never change. His father will never change. And I - I - I want no part of him.
(CROSSTALK)
HAMMER: Hey Ben - Hey Ben, let me - let me ask you something.
FERGUSON: Sure.
HAMMER: Should Mel Gibson have come out and - and said something blasphemous about Jesus - Jesus was a fraud, or never existed. And then he apologized.
Do you think it would be going pretty much the same way?
FERGUSON: Yes, I do. I thin anytime.
HAMMER: Really?
FERGUSON: I think anytime you come out and you say anything that deals with pushing another religion away, or making fun of another religion, or against any - any type of group or people, they`re - they`re going to be repercussions for your actions. And that`s what gets the media going; that`s what gets people going and talking about this.
So yes, I mean, if he would have said something like this, the Christian community would have attacked him the same exact way. The bottom line is, is this is going to bring up a bigger line of stars making sure that they watch their mouths. And he`s got to fix himself. He`s got to - it`s got to be more than just the drinking. It`s go to be.
(CROSSTALK)
MALZBERG: Or what? He won`t be able to count his billions of dollars in the bank? He can make his own way from now on.
FERGUSON: He`s already made the money he`s made. But the good thing is - is he is a star. You`re right. And I do think that he`s going to try to change. There might be a possibility because he doesn`t have to. He didn`t have to come out and apologize. He could live his life.
MALZBERG: Oh come on.
FERGUSON: .have tons of money.
MALZBERG: All right.
FERGUSON: .like you just said. And I do think.
MALZBERG: He`s a fraud.
(CROSSTALK)
HAMMER: And we will end it there. Thank you very much, gentlemen. Ben Ferguson, syndicated talk show host for WOAI AM; Steve Malzberg, national radio talk host, thank you for being with us tonight.
Well, we`ve been asking you to vote on our SHOWBIZ TONIGHT "Question of the Day": "Mel Gibson: Do you accept his apology?" We`d love to know what you think. Keep voting at cnn.com/showbiztonight. Write to us at showbiztonight@cnn.com. Those e-mails tomorrow.
ANDERSON: In tonight`s "SHOWBIZ Showcase," the new animated movie "Happy Feet," featuring the voices of Hugh Jackman, Robin Williams and Nicole Kidman. Now the film tells the story of a tap-dancing penguin who marches to the beat of his own drummer. I got to say, it`s - it`s pretty cute.
SHOWBIZ TONIGHT has your first look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(MUSIC)
UNIDENTIFIED VOICE ACTOR: Every penguin has a song.
(SINGING)
(MUSIC)
UNIDENTIFIED VOICE ACTOR: What you doing with your feet?
UNIDENTIFIED VOICE ACTOR: I thought it was kind of cute.
UNIDENTIFIED VOICE ACTOR: But it was just ain`t (INAUDIBLE), OK?
(SINGING)
UNIDENTIFIED VOICE ACTOR: Woo! Who is this fool?
UNIDENTIFIED VOICE ACTOR: Oh, I`m afraid you must stop this freakiness with the feet.
UNIDENTIFIED VOICE ACTOR: But pa.
UNIDENTIFIED VOICE ACTOR: You, mumble (ph) Happy Feet, must go.
(SINGING)
UNIDENTIFIED VOICE ACTOR: Please, guys.
(SINGING)
UNIDENTIFIED VOICE ACTOR: What are you doing?
(SINGING)
UNIDENTIFIED VOICE ACTOR: I think he`s singing.
UNIDENTIFIED VOICE ACTOR: Ain`t no singing. That - that`s not singing.
(SINGING)
UNIDENTIFIED VOICE ACTOR: Yes, I heard an animal once stood there. But then they rolled him over in those days (ph)
(SINGING)
UNIDENTIFIED VOICE ACTOR: Come here, you sausage (ph). I take you (ph) with ketchup.
UNIDENTIFIED VOICE ACTOR: Bring it. Bring it on.
(MUSIC)
UNIDENTIFIED VOICE ACTOR: I`m going to be telling your story, Happy Feet, long after you gone.
(SINGING)
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED VOICE ACTOR: (INAUDIBLE) look at that. Watch.
(SCREAMING)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: How cute is that? I`m looking forward to "Happy Feet." It comes to theaters on November 17.
HAMMER: All right. I`m going to ask you a question, and I want you to think about it for a moment: do you find funeral directors sexy?
(SCREAMING)
HAMMER: Well, apparently my crew does. Do you want to look at them every day of next year?
(SCREAMING)
HAMMER: Well, have we got a scoop for you coming up next in the story that made us say, "That`s Ridiculous!"
ANDERSON: Plus, meet a woman who says she`s leading a real-life "Da Vinci Code." She says she a descendant of Jesus. Could it be true? That`s coming up.
We`ll also have this:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JENNIFER O`NEILL, ACTRESS: He just got caught in - in an unfortunate moment. My heart is breaking for him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAMMER: A movie star with her own painful past tells us why she`s standing behind Mel Gibson. Jennifer O`Neill coming up in the interview you`ll see only on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go Camera 3. Dissolve music under. Master stand by your break. And roll it. Effect black.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go 3. Fade up music under. Stand by, Brooke. Pre- set 7. And dissolve Los Angeles. Go.
ANDERSON: Welcome back to SHOWBIZ TONIGHT, TV`s most provocative entertainment news show.
It`s time now for another story that made some say, "That`s Ridiculous!"
It`s a beefcake calendar chock full of 12 full months of - get this - morticians. Yes, those guys. The 2007 "Men of Mortuaries" calendar - yes, they`re morticians. It was the idea of a funeral director in California.
Now he says the hardest part was finding 12 attractive morticians. And you can get your calendar in October, if that`s something that`s up your alley.
HAMMER: Now it`s the fascinating story of a woman who claims that she is a descendant of the union between a married Jesus and Mary Magdalene. If it sounds kind of familiar, well, that`s because it`s the same premise in the novel and the movie "The Da Vinci Code." And now she has written her own book about it, "The Expected One." It`s a work fiction whose main character is based on events in her own life.
Kathleen McGowan joins me here in New York.
It`s a pleasure to have you here.
KATHLEEN MCGOWAN, AUTHOR, "THE EXPECTED ONE": Thank you. It`s a pleasure to be here.
HAMMER: You`re now on "The New York Times" bestseller list. Congratulations on that.
MCGOWAN: Thank you very much.
HAMMER: I - I want to get this out of the way right away.
MCGOWAN: OK.
HAMMER: It will come as no surprise to you that some people will hear you say, I am a descendant of Jesus and Mary Magdalene, and will think, You`re nuts.
What do you say to that?
MCGOWAN: What I say is that there are probably a million other people who are also descendants of Jesus and Mary Magdalene. And that is really the crux of this issue.
This is not an elitist thing; this is not me saying, I`m special because I am. This is me saying that with 2,000 years, if there was a union, and this union produced children - which I absolutely believe it did, then there would be hundreds of thousands if not millions of these descendants all over the world.
HAMMER: So you`re saying there`d be a huge lineage.
MCGOWAN: Absolutely.
HAMMER: They`re everywhere. Got to get them together for a family reunion of - of some kind.
So - so - so how did you first know though that it was you, that you were one of these people in this lineage of Jesus and Mary Magdalene?
MCGOWAN: I had absolutely no idea when I first embarked on this journey. It was actually told to me when I was doing some work down in the south of France, where these traditions are very, very strong. And in my case, it comes from - it`s a name issue. There are a number of family numbers that are tied to this idea of a bloodline lineage, names that are believed to have been protectors of the bloodline, or protectors of the secrets. And it just happens that my paternal grandmother is from one of these families. And so that`s how I came about.
It`s not anything about intense genealogies and very detailed chronologies. It`s really more about tradition.
HAMMER: But you still get how controversial just the idea of it is. I mean.
MCGOWAN: Of course.
HAMMER: I mean, people do hear this, and are like, (INAUDIBLE), I don`t think so.
MCGOWAN: Of course.
(CROSSTALK)
HAMMER: We saw what Dan Brown has been through.
MCGOWAN: Right. Absolutely.
HAMMER: What about the notion that you had - you know, it`s - this is controversial enough, and - and hard enough for - for people to swallow.
But you had visions at some point? Tell me what you saw. Because I know your character goes through that; your character is - the character in the book is based on you. What are you seeing in these visions?
MCGOWAN: Well, I mean, first of all, I didn`t set out to write a book about Mary Magdalene. I mean, that`s really the - the beginning.
The genesis of this book came - I was writing a book about women in history who were considers notorious or infamous and who had been maligned and misunderstood. And that was the working title of the book. And Mary Magdalene was just one of those characters in the beginning. And as I - my research intensified, I began to have these recurring dreams about her. And they.
HAMMER: Like what kinds of things were you seeing?
MCGOWAN: Well, the dream that really changed my life was a dream that I had one night about her in Jerusalem. And in this dream, it was - it was Good Friday. And I was in this mob that was on the Villa Heroica (ph), which is the path of - of the Crucifixion, where Jesus carried his cross. And I saw this beautiful, heart-breaking, grief-stricken woman in the crowd holding a child`s hand and with another child with her. And in that moment in the dream, this woman looks at me with this just heart-breaking grief, and basically communicates to me, I feel, that she wanted me to help her.
HAMMER: Wow.
(LAUGHTER)
HAMMER: That`s quite a - quite a dream.
But - but really, for people who are skeptics, no hard proof to offer them.
MCGOWAN: Lots of hard proof to offer them, actually. There`s all kinds of hard proof in the book. It took me 10 years to crack this book after all of the years of research, because there are so many layers of proof in the book.
It`s not traditional academic proof. This is proof that comes from folklore, from cultures, from living traditions all over the world.
HAMMER: So people will have to go into the book and - and find it out.
MCGOWAN: And - and determine for themselves. That`s .
(CROSSTALK)
HAMMER: Kathleen McGowan, I appreciate you joining us.
Kathleen`s book is called "The Expected One." It`s a novel, and it is in book stores now.
ANDERSON: Now, the painful past of movie star and former cover girl Jennifer O`Neill. A model at 15 and the star of the hit film "Summer of `42," it looked like Jennifer had it now. But O`Neill suffered countless heartbreaks, and attempted suicide, nine marriages, nine miscarriages, and a child sexually abused by her former husband.
But instead of folding under her pain, Jennifer found God, and wrote candidly about her experiences in several books. Well, now she`s out with a new book called "A Fall Together," which she describes as "`Desperate Housewives` for Christians."
I spoke with Jennifer today, and we got to talking about - who else? - Mel Gibson.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: You must sympathize with the scrutiny that Mel Gibson is under right now, because you have been in the spotlight for so long, what with so many different things that have happened to you.
O`NEILL: Well, I believe that we all find ourselves, at various times in our lives, with un-well-thought-out situations. We`ve all made horrible mistakes. But when you`re a celebrity, you`re glommed on to, and it becomes international news.
And - and I don`t Mel personally, but my heart goes out to him. I know that his faith doesn`t support some of those he comments he makes - made. And he just got caught in - in an unfortunate moment. But if everyone would just take a beat and understand - I could say to your audience, Have you ever made a mistake? And then the humanity comes out, and the empathy.
So my heart is breaking for him.
ANDERSON: Your fifth book, "A Fall Together"..
O`NEILL: Yes.
ANDERSON: It`s actually your first book of fiction.
O`NEILL: Yes.
ANDERSON: Your previous books - your autobiography was even called, "Surviving Myself."
O`NEILL: Aptly - appropriately titled, "Surviving Myself." My - and my first books, that was the first time of kind of peeling like an onion, and knowing that there was a story I wanted to tell. It was difficult; it needed to be honest. It wasn`t a finger-pointing mission, but about how faith changed my life, with - with all of that drama, trauma - almost died three times, nine miscarriages along the way.
So - so God turns all things for good. And that was a - a story worth saying.
ANDERSON: Was there ever a point where you thought, I can`t go on, where you wanted to end it all.
(CROSSTALK)
ANDERSON: Some people would be shocked at the things you have overcome.
O`NEILL: Teen suicide is a huge epidemic. And so I have to admit that at 14, I tried to kill myself. I did not want to die. It`s a very important message to parents, to keep their ear close to their children`s heart.
I just wanted to be heard. And a big event happened in my life that seemed to be the end of the world. But that`s what it feels like when you`re a teenager.
And so I take on domestic violence, divorce, sexual abuse. I was shot and almost died and - and - and I was just, by the grace of God, made it through. And at 38 years old - that was 20 years ago - I found my faith. And it has sustained me. And again, we`re all a work in progress. But that`s a story worth telling.
ANDERSON: You know, you say, you know, You`re - the grace of God. Mel Gibson is also very religious.
O`NEILL: Yes.
ANDERSON: A devout Catholic.
O`NEILL: Yes.
ANDERSON: What advice would you give him right now?
O`NEILL: Oh, just want him to know - and I know he does - that God loves him.
And I remember at times getting the message from God - he talks to me - he says, Hey, Jen, you know, your PR is not going to take me down. And Mel did such a beautiful and amazing and - and anointed message with "The Passion of Christ" (sic). And he`s just a person, just as well all are.
So I give him my prayers, and just stay in the Word and let - let God love him.
ANDERSON: Somebody else who`s just a person like the rest of us but who is really going through a tough time right now, Christie Brinkley.
Christie Brinkley is dealing with her husband`s infidelity.
O`NEILL: Oh dear.
ANDERSON: It has come out that he allegedly cheated with a 19-year- old.
O`NEILL: Wow.
ANDERSON: What advice do you give her, and - and..
(CROSSTALK)
O`NEILL: I just did an interview with Katie Lee Gifford, and I think that she showed an enormous amount of grace based on her faith with her marriage.
ANDERSON: Right.
O`NEILL: If there is repentance, true repentance and disclosure, then God can see you through. Love - love never fails. So I - I don`t know what her faith is, but I know that there is repair for all things in Jesus Christ. And - and that`s how people can deal with those tough times.
I had an abortion in the early 70s. I didn`t want it, but we`re all responsible for everything we think, say and do. And I`m the national spokesperson for the Silent No More awareness campaign. I say that in conjunction with Christie, because nothing seems bigger than what you`re going through at the moment. But people will disappoint you. God won`t.
And so the grace that we can extend to each other is just understanding how much we`ve been forgiven ourselves. And that`s there for abortion, that`s there for infidelity. But repairing that relationship is all about love.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: Jennifer O`Neill`s fifth book, called "A Fall Together," is in stores now.
Stay with us. SHOWBIZ TONIGHT will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HAMMER: Here`s what`s coming at you tomorrow on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT:
As Rosie O`Donnell is getting ready to co-host "The View," only SHOWBIZ TONIGHT can tell you what Rosie revealed about the one person she really wants to interview.
Also, from stars behind bars. From Hugh Grant to Robert to Nick, looking at the hall of shame in celebrity mugshots. That`s coming up tomorrow on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT.
And that is it for tonight on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT. Thanks for watching. I`m A.J. Hammer in New York.
ANDERSON: I`m Brooke Anderson in Hollywood. Have a good night everybody. Glenn Beck is next. Stay tuned right after the latest headlines from CNN Headline News.
END
