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Nancy Grace

Arizona Judge Sentences Child Molester to 45 Days Behind Bars

Aired August 03, 2006 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, authorities need your help. A church- going Casanova is preying on your young boys. He`s in your local churches, makes friends and then romances single mothers, then molests their sons. Brandon Theodore James on the loose, and now one of America`s most wanted. (INAUDIBLE) it`s not just churches he`s scoping out and then joining.
And tonight, an Arizona judge sentences a child molester to just 45 days behind bars. What message does that send? Superior Court judge Stephen F. Caan (ph), you are in contempt!

But first, the church-going child molester.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Brandon James is obviously wanted for rape, pedophile -- against -- some crimes against children.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: I`m Nancy Grace. Thank you for being with us tonight. Right now, to a church-going Casanova with an MO that he has been using for, we know, 15 years. He graduates to the "America`s Most Wanted" list.

Out to Ed Miller with "America`s Most Wanted." Explain to me this guy`s MO, Ed.

ED MILLER, "AMERICA`S MOST WANTED": Well, you know, that`s the best part about this story because I think your show and so many others can do a lot of good. This is a guy who sneaks around in the grass, so to speak. He cozies up to single mothers who have children, boys about 12 to 14 years old is what he`s really looking for, and he makes nicey-nice with the mother so he can get close to the children. That`s his MO. And it really stinks.

GRACE: What do we know about his record?

MILLER: Well, you know, I have his rap sheet. I wanted you to know I took good look at it because I actually couldn`t believe it. He was first charged back in 1989 in Boone (ph), Iowa, and only got two years for lascivious acts with a child.

GRACE: Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Ed, I researched the statutes in Iowa. I got them right here. And lascivious act -- Betsy (ph), if you can cover my shoulder? Lascivious act on a child can be anything from fondling the child in the genital area, all the way to full-blown sex, Ed, with a child. Go ahead.

MILLER: Well, I was a little concerned when I saw how little time he got because, at first, I thought maybe he was a juvenile. But no, I was wrong. He was 20 years old in 1989.

GRACE: Whew!

MILLER: So again, he did only get two years for that. Then back in 19 -- so he`s out in 1991. And then in 1993...

GRACE: Wait a minute. That was in `90, and he was out in `91?

MILLER: Yes, ma`am.

GRACE: So he only did one year with sex contact with a child?

MILLER: Yes, ma`am.

GRACE: OK. Go ahead.

MILLER: And then back in 1994, he is sentenced to only six years this time around. This is in Ottumwa (ph), Iowa, and he is sentenced for only six years. Now, this time it is for several charges, including the rape of a child -- six years.

GRACE: Let`s go out to Ashleigh Banfield, Court TV news anchor. Ashleigh, it`s amazing to me that this guy has had a revolving door in and out of jails, and now he`s on the loose.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, COURT TV: And they think he`s been sort of plying his trade for about 15 years, Nancy. So that`s what`s so concerning. He seems to hop and skip from small town to small town. And as Ed just mentioned, he goes church organizations, youth organizations, and then just makes his way towards the young children. And when he gets to the kids and when he finally gets their trust, he gets them to think he`s cool by plying them with alcohol and porn. It`s kind of a repeated story we hear a lot.

GRACE: Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Brandon James is obviously wanted for some -- rape, pedophile -- against some -- crimes against children. He`s been on the run since April of 2004, I believe, and we`ve been actively looking for him since then. He`s been elusive to us. We`re asking the media for any help they can give in getting this case some exposure, so we can find him and -- so he`s not creating more victims.

He`s out there with the public. I don`t believe his intention is to stop. I believe he`s out there continuing to perpetrate on children.

Consider him dangerous. He`s -- he`s not particularly a violent person. However, people in his situation that are fleeing from the police, they don`t want to be caught, can become dangerous. Need to call the police right away.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Joining us right now from Sioux Falls, South Dakota, Detective Troy Duncan with the Sioux Falls Police Department. Detective, thank you for being with us. How does he get into the churches? He has some kind of informal association with the youth groups?

DET. TROY DUNCAN, SIOUX FALLS, SOUTH DAKOTA, POLICE DEPARTMENT: Well, the church he associated himself with here is a very open church. They welcome pretty much anybody who wants to come and worship at their church into their church. He had been going there for a while. He had sought to kind of associate himself with the youth organization within that church. He had just hung around, tried to help out. He wasn`t actually a youth leader or anything like that. But it was obvious after a while that -- once this came to light, that was what he had done to make contact with these young boys.

GRACE: Well, I`m sure this is not the only church at issue. He`s a registered sex offender in South Dakota and Iowa. Detective Duncan, I understand the church first got suspicious and alerted police.

DUNCAN: Yes, they did. The pastor, Reverend Jesse Moore (ph), had some information on him that came from one of the young parishioners. He took that information and brought it to our state`s attorney`s office, who relayed him to us, where it got reported and we subsequently did the investigation in this matter.

GRACE: Back to Ed Miller with "America`s Most Wanted." When did he make the "America`s Most Wanted" list, and how did you decide on him?

MILLER: Well, we actually -- we`ve been following him for the past six months or so very closely. And then when we broadcast him, we got a ton of phone calls and a ton of tips about him. He has been spotted in Iowa. And we decided, due to -- which -- we`ve done a couple of sex offenders with very similar patterns -- simply to warn people that this is an ongoing thing now of sexual offenders that cozy on up to single mothers. They think they`re getting a new boyfriend. In reality, what they`re doing is inviting a sexual predator into their home.

We should point out that Brandon has admitted to having sex with a child as young as 5 years old and has also admitted to police that there are many other victims. So probably, it`s a good idea, if there are other victims out there, now`s the time to step forward and to tell police about what happened to them.

GRACE: And back to you, Ed Miller. What is his association with NAMBLA, North American Man/Boy Love?

MILLER: Well, of course, you know, the organization is a very controversial organization. When they searched his home, they found literature in there which confirmed the fact he was a very active member of this organization. For people that don`t know, we should remind them this is an organization where the members, many of them, choose to rent or live in homes right near playgrounds because they are sexually aroused by the sound of children playing. A rather controversial organization, as you well know.

GRACE: Why did you have to say that, that they get turned on by hearing kids out on the playground?

MILLER: You know what...

GRACE: Did you have to just throw that in?

MILLER: I have to do that because you know I tell it like it is, and I want people to understand exactly when we`re talking about.

GRACE: Take a listen to what police had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I continue to believe the best police are the public being aware of their surroundings, seeing people that are around them, especially in this case. This -- Brandon James has -- he has a support group somewhere. There is people that know where he is. There is people that have seen him. They just need to come forward and tell where he is. And that`s the best police work, is the old-fashioned knocking on doors, going out, talking to people. And if people just come to us with the information, he can be found.

He may have a support group that doesn`t know that he`s wanted. He tends to involve church groups, other youth groups and things like that. He could be the person sitting in the pew right next to you. You don`t know this. Just be aware of, you know, who you`re sending your children with. If you think it`s suspicious, it probably is. Just be aware of that as a parent and as a young adult. Anything -- if it`s not right in your mind, it`s probably not right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And while the pastor of Ridgeway (ph) didn`t know anything for sure, he became suspicious of the way this guy was acting. He is on the move, America`s most wanted, Brandon T. James, a fairly good-looking Casanova, goes into a church, infiltrates, starts loosely getting affiliated with youth organization, dating a single mom. He always picks moms and in their 30s and 40s so their children are the age he wants. Known victims between 5 and 15 years old. As soon as they get wise to him, he`s off to another congregation.

And speaking of his association with North American Man/Boy Love, I`ve got one of their most recent bulletins, as they call it, in my hands. And it says that the North American Man/Boy Love Association is political and educational. They support boys and men who have -- who desire consensual sex and emotional relationships. And they want to educate us, society, in a positive nature.

This is about child molestation. This is not about homosexuality or being gay. This is about a crime of being a predator on children.

Let`s go out to the lines, Liz. Let`s go to Stacy in Georgia. Hi, Stacy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. My question is why are we just now hearing about these crimes, since he`s been committing them for 15 years?

GRACE: Fifteen years.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And they`ve been looking for him since 2004.

GRACE: Well, I just found out about him by looking at "America`s Most Wanted." If it hadn`t been for them, I wouldn`t have even known about him. You know, to you, Ed Miller. I`m very surprised that people like this aren`t on the FBI`s top Most Wanted. Instead, we only see international terrorists there, or people that rob banks. What about those that victimize our children, our boys, sitting in church pews?

MILLER: Absolutely. You know, that`s a very, very good point, Nancy. and I`m so glad you brought that up. The FBI`s 10 Most Wanted list is -- you know, there`s an internal struggle within the FBI to change that list and update it, make it more relevant to the average man, which is one of the reasons why Warren Jeffs, you know, the controversial church leader who advocates these child marriages, is now on the FBI`s 10 Most Wanted list. Many younger people within the FBI would like to see that list become more relevant to the average guys, so you get sexual offenders on that FBI`s 10 Most Wanted list.

Let me just point out that a very -- an infamous child killer by the name of Durantes Potland (ph) was on the 10 Most Wanted list. We were very active in getting him on there, and he was caught in Mexico. He killed a child in Nashville, Tennessee. And he and the girlfriend were caught and brought back to the United States.

GRACE: Congratulations on that.

To Ashleigh Banfield from Court TV. Ashleigh, it`s my understanding investigators think this guy has a string of child victims all across the Midwest.

BANFIELD: It`s entirely possible. I mean, the last time they lost contact with him was during that investigation for the alleged assaults on a 12-year-old and a 15-year-old. They have no idea. So shows like this get the word out, if anybody thinks they might have been assaulted by this character.

By the way, Nancy, it probably would help to throw out there that he`s sweet-talking, he dresses really well, and he has a scar on his abdomen from some kind of appendix surgery. So if that helps, along with all the pictures that you`re showing, for anybody to come forward and add to the many tips that have come in to "America`s Most Wanted," hopefully, we can arrest this monster and get him behind bars.

GRACE: I`m glad you said that. Is known to be a very good dresser, has worked construction.

Liz, do we have a picture of his car or the license plate that he was driving? Yes, let`s put that up as soon as we can.

He goes to churches and other groups, starts dating the moms and sleeps with the little boys, some of victims as young as 5.

Take a listen to what one of these victims had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was a Sunday morning, just like any other Sunday morning, and it was in church. And he was new. He was a visitor. And my dad is an associate pastor at the church, and so I felt kind of obligated to meet new people, at least say hello. And so I actually approached him in the beginning and said, Hey, and everything, and asked him what he was doing. He said he lived nearby and things. And then he offered to give me a ride to work. And so then that is how everything started, was he offered to give me a ride back to work.

I went to his apartment, which was near the church, and I talked with him for a bit there. And then he gave me a ride to work, and that`s where contact was first made.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Let`s go to the lines. Maria in Maryland. Hi, Maria.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. My question was, why is the offender not in jail for a much longer period of time, as he`s admitted to having had sex with a 5-year-old boy?

GRACE: Maria, you are preaching to the choir. Apparently, the judges that sentenced him before gave him a slap on the wrist, and he has gone on offending.

To Renee Rockwell. You know, Renee, I thought I had dubbed the phrase "buddy system" when I started prosecuting child molestation cases in inner- city Atlanta, when the perpetrator would buddy up to the family or the child. I remember one child I had, the molester would give him rolls of quarters -- that`s when video games were just coming on the scene, they were very popular -- And let him go to the arcade, then take him home and molest him while the mom was at work. He became the child`s friend, his buddy. He buddied up to the mom.

I`m surprised that he hasn`t gotten a bigger sentence. He`s a registered sex offender, Renee, in two different jurisdictions.

RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: And Nancy, you talk about the quarters. What with about the puppies? You`ve seen that a number of times, too. Just to comment on the sentencing -- it`s up to the judges. And I know I`m a defense attorney, but you know how I feel about sex offenders. It`s up to the judges because, unfortunately, these are defendants that will not ever be rehabilitated. Do you agree?

GRACE: Sex offenders rehabilitated? Never. I don`t care what some shrink might tell me.

What about it, Alison Arngrim?

ALISON ARNGRIM, NATIONAL ASSN. TO PROTECT CHILDREN: Well, I was just saying how happy this man looks in his mug shots because he`s clearly turned the entire system of sex offender registry into a game. These guys are organized. They have learned how to circumvent the system. And that`s why I`m ranting and raving about the real safety coalition because we`re just demanding right now, protect.org, an overhaul of the entire way that we release sex offenders and how they`re treated because, as you see, this whole system isn`t working.

GRACE: You know what? You`re so right, Alison. And everybody that you think you recognize Alison, you recognize her from being a star on "Little House on the Prairie." And during that time, she was also a child molestation victim who went on to found National Association to Protect Our Children.

She`s not keeping quiet, and neither are we. We need your help tonight. We want to find this guy before he goes and sits in the pew next to you and your son.

Very quickly, to tonight`s "Case Alert." Another murder victim now linked to the so-called serial shooter stalking the desert city of Phoenix. Police say the fatal shooting of a 22-year-old woman Sunday night 11:00 PM the work of a serial shooter now responsible for nine deaths and dozens of random shootings this past year. Meantime, the "baseline killer" in Phoenix also linked to eight deaths.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: We know the pain that child molesters inflict on children, a pain that lasts a lifetime. This one`s got a new twist. On the "America`s Most Wanted," Brandon Theodore James goes to various local churches, acts like he`s joining, attends for a while, befriends single moms in their 30s and 40s, starts dating and romancing them. He`s charming, as Ashleigh Banfield told us, a smooth talker. Next thing you know, the mom thinks he`s dating her, while he has designs on the little boy, her son. That`s right. We now know of victims ranging from age 5 to 15. He`s now on to another church in another community, not stopped by the law.

But you can help us. In a search, it was discovered he was a member of NAMBLA, North American Man/Boy Love. What about it, Clark Goldband?

CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE INTERNET REPORTER: You will not believe this, Nancy, but NAMBLA has an application. The North American Boy Love Association (SIC) has an application.

GRACE: You have to apply? They`ve got strict regulations...

(CROSSTALK)

GOLDBAND: There`s all kinds of pricing. And we do have a pricing menu for you. It is...

GRACE: You have to pay to join this?

GOLDBAND: You have to pay, and there are various prices you can pay.

GRACE: Life membership, $1,000?

GOLDBAND: Exactly right, $1,000. And when you pay that $1,000, you receive all kinds of books and manuals. And you only have to pay once. Here`s the worst part...

GRACE: I can only imagine the books and manuals that North American Man/Boy Love sends.

GOLDBAND: Well, we did see them, but we can`t show them on our program, Nancy. The worst of the worst -- if you`re in prison, it`s free. They will let you join the North American Boy Love Association for free if you`re incarcerated. When did the NAMBLA start? Well, it was back in 1978. They have all kinds of missions and stuff like that.

Here`s what they say. Their goal is to "end oppression of men and boys in consensual relationships." They feel they`re being oppressed. And it`s not only about sex, Nancy. They also say they want boys to feel free and liberated and...

GRACE: OK, OK, OK. That`s enough.

GOLDBAND: You don`t have to be a boy to join.

GRACE: OK. Repeat, enough!

Alison Arngrim with National Association to Protect Children. Did you know it`s $1,000 for a lifetime membership?

ARNGRIM: No, no. I...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: To free children from their oppression, to be molested?

ARNGRIM: Yes. I like to think of our group, Protect, as the North American Stop Raping Our Children League. We also have a membership system. Please give us a call at protect.org if you`ve had enough of this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Brandon Theodore James, 36 years old, America`s Most Wanted, 6 foot, 170 pounds. Liz, if you could give me the various shots of what he has looked like in the past? Short brown hair, green eyes, may be sporting a goatee at this point, was driving an `86 red Nissan Sentra two-door, South Dakota license 1KN-537. Tip line, 605-367-7256.

Back out to Detective Troy Duncan with the Sioux Falls Police Department. Again, Detective, thank you for braving the heat to be with us. Detective, I`m a little confused about the timeline. I know this guy is a sex register -- a sex felon in two states. But what I don`t understand is, when he told police his last victim was 5 years old, how did he get away? Why wasn`t he put in jail at that time?

DUNCAN: Well, he was put in jail. That was out of an investigation that was conducted in Iowa on one of his previous convictions.

GRACE: OK.

DUNCAN: His -- the kind he perpetrated here, he fled before we had an opportunity to, number one, attempt to interview him, or get a warrant for his arrest.

GRACE: How did you find out about it? Is this one where the pastor came to you?

DUNCAN: This is the one where the pastor came to me. I don`t know how he found out that we were on his trail.

GRACE: Well, you know, this is a common problem across the country. People suspect, they become suspicious, and they don`t really know what to do about it.

To Jeffrey Gardere, Dr. Jeff Gardere, psychologist. These moms must have a horrible sense of guilt, which I think may be unfounded.

JEFF GARDERE, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, they do have a terrible sense of guilt because they feel that they`ve opened the door because of their own needs to have companionship and allowed these monsters to come into their home. But we all have to learn from this. and they need to understand from the mistakes that the moms have already made.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If I could say one thing, I`d probably want to say I don`t regret what I went through. I`ve grown from it. And I won`t let it hold me back, and I hope that you`re brought to justice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Can you help us find one of America`s most wanted? His name is Brandon Theodore James, age 36, known to be charming, a sweet talker, believed to be good looking by many, six feet, 170 pounds, short brown hair, green eyes, could be sporting a goatee, maybe driving a red Nissan Sentra two-door, South Dakota license 1KN-537. This guy has got quite a rap sheet and an M.O. to match.

I want to go out to Paul Batista, defense attorney, if this guy is apprehended and finally goes trial instead of getting slaps on the wrist like he has all the other times, how in the heck do you think you as a defense attorney could keep out his association with North American Man-Boy Love Association?

PAUL BATISTA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I don`t think there would be any way to do it, Nancy. I think it`s just one of those things that the prosecution would try to get in, and would get in successfully, and would really probably bring an end to this case.

This man will be found; he will be brought to justice. He may have a trial. And there is just such a -- there seems to be such a mass of evidence that`s accumulated against him that I think, by this point, we may not be seeing him on the street for maybe the rest of his life.

GRACE: Well, not if there`s anything we can do about it.

To Alison Arngrim, Alison, this M.O., the joining the church, the local church, all of these -- Detective, aren`t all of these small towns, Detective Duncan?

DUNCAN: Yes.

GRACE: So he goes to a small town, Alison, a small church, and starts dating the mom. Have you ever seen this scenario before, Alison?

ARNGRIM: Oldest trick in the book, get into a position of trust. It`d be nice to say you can trust people at church, but I think, after the Catholic Church fiasco, we know unfortunately that`s not true.

GRACE: Out to Deborah in Ohio. Hi, Deborah.

CALLER: Hi, Nancy. How are you?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?

CALLER: Why aren`t the judges tougher on sentencing these guys?

GRACE: Man, that`s an age-old question. Wait until you hear our next story out of, guess where, Utah.

To Ed Miller, where aren`t they tougher?

MILLER: Well, Nancy...

GRACE: What`s wrong with them?

MILLER: ... you should know that. You`re the attorney, not me.

GRACE: Look, can I tell you something? Renee, you were there. I would sit in court with my head about to just blow off with judges giving light sentences. There were many times I would have to say, "Oh, I will have the local paper, the `Atlanta Journal Constitution` here come sentencing time, Judge. Your re-election is coming up, Judge."

You know it`s true, Renee. I don`t understand it.

ROCKWELL: Nancy, and it`s such a precious position to be in, a judge. You have people`s freedom in your hand. You have people`s lives. But you have to think -- besides the defendant, you have to think about victims` families. I was in court today, in Cobb County, Judge Bodiford, looking at him, thinking what a fabulous judge. And on the other hand, you see judges that you just...

GRACE: Wait a minute. You don`t happen to have a case in front of him right now do you?

ROCKWELL: No, not now.

GRACE: Yes.

ROCKWELL: You have to admire a good judge, because politics enter things, pressures, et cetera. It`s so easy to do the wrong thing. And when you see a good judge, you just have to applaud them.

GRACE: Well, another thing, to you, Paul Batista, is they think nobody will ever find out. They think nobody`s looking up the records. You know, they think they`ll never be exposed when they give these light sentences.

And like Alison is saying, look, I know you wear a different hat for me, Paul Batista. I accept that. But the reality is you`re not in court now. You know sex offenders are never cured. I don`t care what some Park Avenue shrink wants to tell me.

BATISTA: I totally agree with that, Nancy. I`m a living human being. I`ve been around a little bit longer than you have been. I agree with that.

GRACE: Well, certainly age before beauty, by all means.

BATISTA: Let me say something, though. In the 30 years I`ve been practicing, the focus and the intensity of judges all around the country on these kinds of offenders has gone from a shrug of the shoulders, basically, to a really intense focus on these offenders. And the sentences are getting bigger.

GRACE: Oh, really? Because our next story is a story that just went down today where a guy had sex with a minor in Utah and the judge gave him 45 days.

BATISTA: Different, different, different story, Nancy.

GRACE: So I don`t know what you`re talking about. So?

BATISTA: Different story.

GRACE: Same thing. Yes, it`s a different judge, but it`s the same theory.

I want to go Detective Troy Duncan. Detective, do you ever feel like, no matter how hard you try to stop the bad guys, the judges are going to keep giving them light sentences, they`re going walk straight out the door and go to another community, just like your community. You`re from a small town like me, Detective.

DUNCAN: Well, I think, yes, any law enforcement officer has a time and an experience where he feels like the sentence is too light. I do feel we have some very good judges here in our community who take this type of crime very seriously, and they do hand out some very serious punishments. I just...

GRACE: Well, what happened here?

DUNCAN: We haven`t caught him. We haven`t tried him. We`re still in the try to catch him phase so we can try him and hopefully get him put away.

GRACE: That`s right. You are in South Dakota, and his convictions are in Iowa. Good point.

Take a listen to what one of the victims had to say, Detective.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After a year and a half and things started to come out within the church and everything, I kind of told one of my closest friends, and I just explained what was going on and what was happening, but things that already had begun to happen in the police department thing. So I didn`t have a chance to tell anybody before when I could have stopped things. So it was more of trying to get it off my chest.

But I told my best friend, and she was very understanding. And she was a really good support system to help me through everything.

Well, I think that, in America, a lot of people think it`s an overblown subject, it`s not really as bad as it`s made out to be. And I think that the more people that come forward, the more America will realize that this really is a big deal and these people really do need to come to justice. And they`ll realize that sex offenders normally cannot be rehabilitated.

It`s something that they keep on repeating. I mean, Brandon James did it three times before the situations with me and the other victim. And so I think that -- when people just come forward and be honest, it will help bring realization and get the truth out. And then real work and real justice can begin.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Take a look at this guy. Can you help us stop him? He`s already skipped town and gone onto another small community and another church. He joins a church, gets active in the congregation, begins romancing and wooing the single moms between 30 and 40. The whole time, he`s got his eye on their young son.

His name is Brandon Theodore James, age 36, now believed to be sporting a goatee, red Nissan Sentra two-door. Tip line: 605-367-7256.

To Jeff Gardere, psychologist, Dr. Gardere, are the moms -- and I`m not blaming this on the moms, but is love really blind that they can`t see what`s going on?

GARDERE: Well, Nancy, you have to understand that a lot of these single moms who go to church, some of them do it, of course, for religion, to find the lord. But some of them also go there because it`s a good place for them to be able to socialize in a very safe manner, to meet so-called very nice people.

The church is supposed to be about love, and therefore they become easily duped where they see this individual, good-looking individual, charming devil, if I may say that -- and pun intended -- who is about doing good, and about helping the lord, and helping the congregation, and it`s all part of that ploy.

It`s a confidence game. This guy is a predator. They`re predators, and they`re masters of the game, and these women are taken in. And the way to avoid this, for the moms who are listening, is that you cannot let these men or other adults be best friends to your children. You as the parents need to be the best friends.

GRACE: And in the place where you least expect a violent crime to occur, child molestation amongst the congregations in small churches in small towns in this country. Don`t let him get away with ruining these children`s lives.

Very quickly, Liz, let`s go to tonight`s "Case Alert." Well, guess what? Music icon Michael Jackson loses yet another legal team. Why? He hasn`t paid the bills, according to them. The law firm was representing Jackson in a $48 million dispute. The legal team also says they can never get in touch with Jackson, their client. He claims he was the one who fired them.

(NEWSBREAK)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Kelly Fischer, who could have been sent to prison for up to two years after being convicted last month of taking a 16-year-old girl as a second wife and getting the girl pregnant, instead given only 45 days in jail and three years supervised probation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: An Arizona judge out of Kingman sentences a man to just 45 days behind bars after he has sex with a minor. Why? Let`s go out to Dave Hawkins, news direct with KGMN Radio.

You were in court for the sentencing. What happened?

DAVE HAWKINS, NEWS DIRECTOR, KGMN RADIO: Well, Mojave County Superior Court Judge Steve Conn imposed the 45-day jail term, as you mentioned. He passed over the prosecutor`s plea for a prison term. He said he agreed that a message need be sent, but some here question what severity of message is sent in a 45-day jail sentence.

GRACE: Liz, let`s take a look at what the judge had to say. This was a little surprising. The victim, 16 at the time, she was put in an arranged marriage, a bigamist marriage, to a 34-year-old man. "My attitude and perception has been polygamy in Colorado is something perfectly acceptable to governmental agencies in its area and the only reason these cases have become involved in the criminal justice system are assertions and allegations that the multiple or plural wives were underage when they had sex."

It sounds to me, Dave, that the judge is accepting polygamy, including when the child is just 16 years old.

HAWKINS: Well, I don`t know -- the judge cautioned against such a conclusion. He said he found polygamy, its practice morally offensive. And he didn`t condone, understand, appreciate or accept it.

I did speak with Prosecutor Matt Smith today, the Mojave County attorney who`s brought these series of cases to trial or to the court system, I should say. And he said that, in similar cases outside this religious culture, some young men who might have sexual relations with an underage female, it`s quite common in this jurisdiction for such men convicted to draw nominal jail sentences and probation.

GRACE: Why? Why? Why is that? And why does a judge say bigamy and sex with a 16-year-old girl and 34-year-old man -- they`re not married. He`s already married. So all of this business about celestial wives is B.S. The judge calls that morally offensive?

Let me get this straight. Kingman, Arizona, is part of the United States of America. We don`t have bigamy. And sex with this girl, a 16- year-old, is not just morally offensive. It`s against the law, I think.

HAWKINS: Indeed. And there are people who are, you know, taking the judge to task, and not necessarily publicly, but there`s a lot of chatter in the legal community and the common community of whether this sentence was acceptable. But, again, as I say, comparing it to like cases not involving that culture, the sentences aren`t necessarily disparate, I`m told, by the prosecutor who`s been with that office for more than 15 years.

GRACE: Take a listen to what one of the lawyers had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would have liked to have seen a harsher sentence just for the message it would send up there. I kind of think that, if he would have gone to prison, than might not have been a deterrent. It`s hard to say. I mean, I think they pretty much do what Warren Jeffs tells them to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Out to Ashleigh Banfield with Court TV, this guy got 45 days behind bars for sex with a minor. How much could he have received?

BANFIELD: Well, he could have been sentenced up to two years, and this was the discretion of the judge. But, Nancy, it`s really important to note that he wasn`t on trial for polygamy, because it`s not a crime in Arizona.

And the whole confusion here is that, when he was so-called married to this 16-year-old, who by the way got consent from her parents, he got her pregnant, and they used the birth certificate to assess that. So essentially, if they had been married legally, the wife number one didn`t exist, there would have been no crime. And I think this is what the judge was trying to come to terms with.

GRACE: You know, one thing we`re leaving out, let me get this straight. Back to Dave Hawkins, this 16-year-old girl, she was married when she was 16. I don`t know when the 34-year-old began to date her, but was she the defendant`s stepdaughter?

HAWKINS: Yes.

GRACE: Oh, good god.

HAWKINS: Actually, that`s true, and people think that`s quite bizarre. That shines a little light on...

GRACE: Quite bizarre? It`s incest, for Pete`s sake. Incest includes adopted children, stepchildren. What`s the name of this judge, Steve Conn?

HAWKINS: Judge Steve Conn. And following one of your panelists` point, she is correct that Judge Conn did remark in his sentencing commentary that, since the parents were willing for this union to occur, had he not already been legally married and had he taken this child as his first legal wife, any sexual relations that would have arisen from that union would have been perfectly legal.

GRACE: You mean, aside from the incest? Did you forget about that?

HAWKINS: I didn`t forget about that, no.

GRACE: Well, there is -- incest is against the law in Kingman, Arizona, right?

HAWKINS: You know, I`m not familiar with each and every statute, but...

GRACE: It is. Trust me on this: Incest is against the law in all 50 states.

I`m pretty sure about that, Paul Batista, agree or disagree?

BATISTA: This time, Nancy, I totally agree with you. It`s amazing.

GRACE: OK, well, we might as well just shut down the set now. Batista is agreeing with me.

Renee Rockwell, shed some light.

ROCKWELL: Well, Nancy, here`s what happened. I can tell you...

GRACE: Oh, lord.

ROCKWELL: You don`t have a victim in this case. She didn`t come to court. You know how they proved this in this jury trial? By birth certificates. So when you don`t have a victim, and you have a man that does not have a record, and you`re getting all kind of letters of what a wonderful character he is, now, the judge had to deal with that. He got probation. That`s what happens. That`s the reality when you don`t have a victim for a sex offense.

GRACE: To our senior resident superior court judge joining us from the Carolinas, Judge Carl Fox. Judge, no offense to judges in general, but this is an outrage. To sit on the bench and ignore bigamy, ignore incest, ignore a 34-year-old man dating and marrying a girl at age 16, I`m stunned.

JUDGE CARL FOX, SENIOR RESIDENT, SUPERIOR COURT JUDGE: Well, I can certainly understand that, Nancy. And there`s a way to deal with that, if the legislature would go back and...

GRACE: The legislature?

FOX: No, no, I mean, if the legislature changes the law, it may require judges to impose active sentences for these offenses, then you take people out of the discretionary box because, if he has discretion, I mean, he can decide anywhere from probation to an active sentence in this situation.

Now, I`m not agreeing with them necessarily. I don`t have to agree with him in this situation. But I`m just saying, if you really want to change and make sure that judges do what you think they should do and you think that it is appropriate in this situation, that is give active sentences, the way to do it is to change the law on it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They want victims to come forward, and they`re doing everything in their power to make the victims afraid to. So what, they can stand here and say, "See, we did everything we could, and nobody would come forward"?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What message does this send?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sends "Don`t come forward," because you`ll be raped by the court.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And according to Judge Steve Conn, there will be a slap on the wrist for violators. Let`s go to the lines. Let`s go out to Virginia. Hi, Virginia.

CALLER: Hi, Nancy. We love you. Nancy, I was just wondering why judges sentencing records can`t be printed in the paper once a year?

GRACE: You know, Virginia, I don`t really know who you are, but you need to run for office. What about it, Alison Arngrim?

ARNGRIM: Oh, well, you know, Nancy, when you brought up the fact that it`s his step daughter, I mean, basically he gave his daughter permission to marry him. It`s the incest exception in action. Nancy, I`m going to be...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: And they keep saying, Alison...

(CROSSTALK)

ARNGRIM: ... Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday next week.

GRACE: Alison, they keep saying, if the marriage to the first mom didn`t exist, well, it does.

ARNGRIM: But it does.

GRACE: That makes this his stepdaughter, and they say that they got married at 16, but he`s living in the home with her prior to that.

ARNGRIM: And they gave him 45 days because he`s the dad. He probably got more points for being her dad than being her husband. And you know that`s why we had to overturn the incest exception in New York.

GRACE: To Dave Hawkins there with KGMN Radio, has there been any outrage to this at all, this judge, Steve Conn`s, sentence?

HAWKINS: Haven`t heard any. You know, I`ve covered and carried the story heavily here. No phone calls from the citizenry that sometimes we typically get as reporters in our community.

GRACE: So everybody is just standing back doing nothing. OK, I got the picture, Dave Hawkins. You`re just the messenger. Thank you.

Let`s stop, Liz, and remember Marine Lance Corporal Benito Jimenez, 21, Edinburgh, Texas, third tour of duty. He dreamed of joining the military since high school, leaving behind a mourning family, two teenage brothers. Benito Ramirez, take a look at him, an American hero.

Thank you to our guests. Our biggest thank you, to you, for being with us, inviting us into your home. Nancy Grace signing off for another night. See you here tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

END