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CNN LARRY KING LIVE
Discussion on U.N. Draft Resolution; Violence in Middle East Escalates
Aired August 6, 2006 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LARRY KING, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, Israel's bloodiest day in almost a month of warfare brings its death toll close to 100, while in Lebanon, more than 700 have now been killed, most of them civilians. All this amid talk of an agreement that might lead to a cease-fire, but when?
Reporters from Haifa, Beirut, Jerusalem, Southern Lebanon and Damascus, plus John Roberts embedded with the Israeli military, all the latest next on LARRY KING LIVE.
Welcome to a special Sunday night edition of LARRY KING LIVE. Let's first go to Haifa Israel and Fionnuala Sweeney, our CNN international correspondent. Rockets hitting Haifa again today.
Fionnuala, doest it ever get old hat?
FIONNUALA SWEENEY, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT: I really don't think so, Larry, but I think what does happen sometimes is that one hears the rocket sirens for the very first time when a arrived here about two and a half weeks ago, certainly it is a new experience and as time goes on, one learns to know that the rockets will land very shortly after the air raid sirens and in fact sometimes even before they have ended. And so when you finish with that and determine whether the rockets are going to land are or not you've got about a couple minutes for the all-clear.
I have to say, it has been relatively quiet in Haifa over the last couple of days, but today we were lulled out of the false sense of security with -- at about 7:00, which would have been about nine hours ago, the air raid sirens sounded and we witnessed several rockets landing in the open area, at dusk here, at about 8:00 in the evening, So everybody thought that was probably it for the rest of the day, but then just before 8:00 as the sun had just set, suddenly the air raid sirens went off and I happened to be in my hotel room and knew immediately that if the air raid sirens went off so close to darkness that probably there was going to be a serious rocket barrage. And as I tried to make my way down to our live shot position, here, the hotel shook with quite a force that I haven't heard to date here and by the time I arrived at the live shoot position, maybe about 30 seconds later, I could see the smoke rising from various vantage points around the city and I had heard the impacts of at least six thuds.
And it was quite eerie, because of course, once the air ride sirens go off, everybody dives for cover and all the cars pull in on the side of the road. So, looking over the bay of Haifa, one could not see anything moving on the streets except the smell of the smoke and the sight of the smoke rising from these buildings and then within about five minutes the whole air was punctuated with the sounds of sirens coming from ambulances and the rescue services and then helicopters and that continued for about an hour while people were trying to rescue those who were trapped inside buildings and it was quite a high death toll by Haifa's standards, three people killed, and more than 100 injured --Larry.
KING: Jim Clancy is our CNN international anchor and correspondent. He is in Beirut. This is not anchoring, Jim, you a noble job of that every day. What's the official reaction in Beirut today to this draft resolution?
JIM CLANCY CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well the official reaction is not outright rejection, but it's certainly a lot of complaining and we heard it from all quarters, you know, Amr Moussa, the secretary-general of the Arab League is here, he said that it just doesn't go far enough at the same time Nabih Barri, the speaker of the parliament whose job it was to negotiate between the Lebanese government, of course which he's a member of, and Hezbollah, he just washed his hands of the whole deal today.
The reason? The sticking point? Well, the Lebanese want the return of some of their civilians held by Israel, and they want all Israeli soldiers off of their territories, a precondition. Now, this is the real sticking point Larry, and it's pretty easy to understand why. That was basically the deal that was offered by Hezbollah 24 days ago. For that to be put up now as a resolution, many people would raise their voices and say why wasn't this done so much sooner? Why wasn't it done before all of the loss of life on the Israeli side and here on the Lebanese side? As you said, painful casualties, about 90 of those 700 deaths are attributed to Hezbollah fighters killed in battle or killed in bombings, but the rest of them are civilians and so many of them have been children -- Larry.
KING: Jim, do you like the field?
CLANCY: Well, you know, Larry, every, I think every correspondent has a defining moment in their career, as a correspondent, mine was right here, 24 years ago, the summer of 1982, came into the city of Beirut. It was ablaze. It was surrounded entirely by the Israelis, Yasser Arafat was holed up here with the PLO. There was a relentless bombing campaign, the electricity, the water was shut off, there was a civil war. It was in the midst of the civil war, and so you had a combination of conflicts that were going on, extremely complicated, extremely challenging. You find that conflict in war brings out, not only the worst in people and we've seen a lot of that in the recent days, but it also brings out the best in people. You see real heroes, people that would sacrifice their lives to save an innocent civilian. All of that counts, Larry. So, it is rewarding. I like the field.
KING: Matthew Chance, is in Northern Israel, CNN senior international correspondent who is quite used to the field.
Does it ever get to be, here we have another day, same thing, same thing?
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I suppose, Larry, you could fall into that trap to think that, you know, it's not dangerous, perhaps, or to think that things aren't going to happen to you. But it was interesting today, because I visited the site where these 12 Israeli soldiers were killed when one of these Katyusha rockets landed where they were standing, essentially, and it just reminded me of how random the targets are of these Katyusha rockets.
We're walking around here, we're sort of basically got our fingers crossed that a rocket isn't going to hit us, basically, in a direct hit. And I'm sure that's what these soldiers were thinking. These rockets aren't aimed. This is merely a lucky strike from the point of view of Hezbollah. These soldiers were reservists, they were paratroopers waiting to go into Lebanon, the rest of their battalion had been sent on ahead of them. We're told that they were just lying around, sleeping in the sun, you know, waiting, eating, drinking, nothing was happening and then suddenly out of the blue, literally, one of these rockets just came out of the sky exploded in their midst, killed 12 of them, injured so many more. A scene of utter carnage, and it really just reminded, you know, how easy it is to become nonchalant and blase about the dangers around here.
KING: Do you ever get afraid?
CHANCE: Absolutely, all of the time. And I think that, you know, if you stop getting afraid, when you're in dangerous situations like this, I think then it's time to worry. The defining thing about, you know, how you act and how courageous you are, I've always thought, is what you do when you're afraid. If you're not afraid of something, it's not brave to do it. But certainly in situations like this, when rockets are falling all around you, when there's artillery fire going in your direction and the noise is bone-shaking, I think there's something that's not right with you if you're not afraid.
KING: Yeah, well-put. Ben Wedeman, CNN's Cairo bureau chief is in Tyre, Lebanon. Now Tyre has had its problems. Is it relatively calm there now -- Ben.
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CAIRO BUREAU CHIEF: Yeah, Larry, at the moment it's calm. We have heard in the distance some rumbling, sounded like air bombardment during the day. There was more than usual artillery, rather, naval bombardment coming down the coast, and of course, what was notable today, Larry, was also the outgoing Katyusha rockets. We saw several volleys going in the direction of Northern Israel. And what's interesting is that our producer here, Kevin Flower, was e- mailing with a colleague, Sara Sultun (ph), another producer who's in Haifa, and he said we just heard a volley go out and she sent back an e-mail saying we just heard it come in.
So, we're really beginning to feel just a closeness of it's a relatively small geographical area and we are watching the rockets go out and we're hearing very soon afterwards reports of them hitting into northern Israel. So you really get a feeling of how close it is and how, as Matthew mentioned, sort of random the violence is. On this side, of course, we see more of a definite pattern, when Katyushas go out, the Israelis will sort of pinpoint various spots around where that happened, but increasingly, we're getting used to just a steady background drum beat of airstrikes and artillery.
KING: Thanks, Ben.
Our correspondents who, if you watch us on a daily basis, you have to agree are doing fantastic work in the field. When we come back, the charges d'affaires for the Lebanese embassy and then the Lebanese government spokesperson, the retired colonel from Israeli military intelligence. Two viewpoints next, don't go away.
KING: Joining us now in Washington is Carla Jazzar, she is the charges d'affaires for the Lebanese embassy. I understand your country has problems with the United States in the French draft -- the Security Council resolution. What's the main problem for you?
CARLA JAZZAR, CHARGES D'AFFAIRES, LEBANESE EMBASSY: No, Larry, we don't have any problems with the draft resolution under study today at the U.N. Actually, we do consider this resolution has some positive elements, and it shows the very good will of the international community, however this resolution doesn't called for a lasting and permanent cease-fire which will allow the Lebanese (INAUDIBLE) which will allow the displaced people to go back home, if any homes are left, which will allow the international humanitarian assistance to be channeled.
Second this resolution doesn't approve for any Israeli withdrawal. This is, you know, this revised very badly at (INAUDIBLE) the moment of the buffer zone in Lebanon which was the immediate cause for Hezbollah's resistance. So, actually, no, Larry, we don't refuse, we don't reject this resolution, but you want to add to it, (INAUDIBLE) to introduce with some new language in a way to make it more implementable (SIC) on the ground and to be accepted by the Lebanese at large.
KING: But the speaker of your parliament says it's pro-Israeli.
JAZZAR: Larry, this resolution doesn't address the concerns of the Lebanese, and it doesn't call for, and it reminds us, you know, all the stuff that is still very vivid in our memory. This is why we want to make it more balanced in a way to be implementable (SIC) on the ground and accepting by all Lebanese.
KING: All right, if it passes, do you think Hezbollah will honor it?
JAZZAR: Well, of course it will honor it. Let me remind you, Larry, that Hezbollah, who is part of the Lebanese government, has already endorsed all the cabinet, Lebanese cabinet statements. It has already endorsed Prime Minister's Siniora's plan for a settlement for the Lebanese Israeli crisis. Yes, you have all reasons to believe that Hezbollah will honor it. And let me remind you, Larry, that Hezbollah always stated that it will abide by the cease-fire, it will respect the cease-fire no matter what and this is what it did anyway during the 48 hours airstrikes suspension, it honored the cease-fire and did not launch any rockets.
KING: Shimon Peres, the former Israeli prime minister and current deputy foreign minister says that Hezbollah is holding your government, the Lebanese government, hostage. It wants Lebanon to be part of Iran's periphery. How do you react to that?
JAZZAR: Larry, again and again, I repeatedly will say we never endorsed what Hezbollah did, and that is said, Hezbollah, Larry, what is at stake today, it's not the Middle East at large. It is not, the, not it were, then (INAUDIBLE) what is a stake today is Lebanon. It is a crisis between Lebanon and Israel, it is about a long-standing and pending issues between Israel and Lebanon. Issues such as the land mines, issues such as occupation of Shebaa Farms, issues such as the prisoners, issues such as the daily incursions in Lebanese territory and air space. These are the issues which are at stake, but it's not about the broader Middle East.
KING: Thank you, Carla. We'll be calling on you again. Carla Jazzar, charges d'affaires for the Lebanese embassy in Washington.
Now we go to Tel Aviv, Miri Eisin is the Israeli government spokesperson, the retired colonel with the Israeli military intelligence, been on this program many times. What's the latest on the attacks against Haifa?
MIRI EISIN, SPOKESPERSON, Israeli GOVERNMENT: As far as we know, Larry, right now, there have been three Israeli civilians that were killed there, dozens that were injured. We're talking yet again about rocket attacks by Hezbollah on civilian centers, as they've been doing for the last three and a half weeks. Over 2,800 rockets fired into northern Israel.
KING: What is, thus far, your country's reaction to the draft proposal at the U.N.?
EISIN: Israel has said that we're waiting to see the full proposal. Certainly, we have always abided by United Nations resolutions. Israel, from the beginning, said Larry, that what we're talking about at the end is diplomatic activity, which is the way to resolve the entire issue. We have always talked about Resolution 1559, the implementation of it, the disarmament of Hezbollah. For us, as we think also for Lebanon, that's the best way out of this problem of this terrorist army in Southern Lebanon.
KING: Secretary Rice has indicated that there are things the Israeli wanted in this draft they didn't necessarily get. Is that true, and if true, what do you want you didn't get?
EISIN: Well, as this is only a draft we're not yet commenting on what will or won't be in it because we don't know yet. When it passes in the United Nations and the Security Council makes its decision, then of course we'll be able to understand what goes on with it. I think that we said clearly from the beginning that, for us, we have to be sure that at the end, Hezbollah, this Iranian arm in Southern Lebanon, is disarmed and we've talked extensively about the Lebanese army coming to deploy in Southern Lebanon, and if not then, the possibility of an international force. We think that these are the directions that the international community understands and backs, and that they are continuing to do so also in this resolution.
KING: Miri, to this point, do you think you have been successful against Hezbollah?
EISIN: Larry, very much so. I think that one of the things that's hard for most of us, is that we can't see it. Hezbollah is sort of like a shadow army, but that's exactly what they do. They're terrorists that are hiding behind the Lebanese civilians, they've been hiding behind them in Lebanon, but we, until now, have managed to destroy thousands of rockets, and here's the good side.
The downside is that they still have thousands of rockets, as you see, firing them at Israel, but there is a very different place that we are today than where we were three and a half weeks ago, because the world understands today that you can't have a terrorist army not in Southern Lebanon, and I don't think anywhere else in the world. You can't have a sovereign country allowing a terrorist army to build up on their borders and Israel has managed to kill hundreds of Hezbollah terrorists. We've taken dozens of terrorists captured, we've also captured weaponry, destroyed the lot, and remember, they have the most sophisticated weaponry from the Iranian arsenal.
KING: Thank you, Miri. Well, as per usual we'll call you again as well. Miri Eisin, the Israeli government's spokesperson, retired colonel with Israeli military intelligence.
When we come back, our panel of Her Majesty Queen Noor, George Mitchell, and Jim Clancy. Don't go away.
KING: Now let's welcome our panel on this special Sunday night edition of LARRY KING LIVE. In Washington Her Majesty Queen Noor, the widow of His Majesty Kind Hussein of Jordan. In Northeast Harbor, Maine is George Mitchell, the former Senate majority leader and international peace negotiator. And also with us is, in Beirut, returning, Jim Clancy, the CNN international co-anchor of "Your World Today" who has covered this world for 30 years.
Your Majesty, what is your early read on the U.S./French draft proposal?
QUEEN NOOR, WIDOW OF HIS MAJESTY, KING HUSSEIN OF JORDAN: Well, I think it's going to be terribly important to try to address a balance of the needs of all sides, and I -- beyond that, I would also wait to see the final draft, but what I think is a terrible urgency right now is to immediately address the humanitarian crisis in Lebanon.
Right now, there is not adequate security for aid convoys to reach those who most desperately need it. There is no fuel to run generators for hospitals, for water pumping stations, for other essential needs. There is no water, there is no running water at all in the south of Lebanon. These are problems throughout the area, and shelter, Beirut has received -- is overwhelmed, and has no more facilities for -- to shelter and house the refugees who have been forced from their homes and there's no access out of the country, because of the land and sea blockade and destruction of all the roads.
So I -- children are suffering tremendously. There's a large proportion of them in the over 700,000 displaced in the country, so any resolution that will start the process of addressing those fundamental humanitarian needs, I think, is absolutely critical.
KING: George Mitchell, from what you know in the resolution, still in draft form, what do you think?
GEORGE MITCHELL, FMR. SEN. MAJORITY LEADER, INTL. PEACE NEGOTIATOR: It's a good sign, Larry, that a resolution has been drafted, it's being circulated among the members of the Security Council, and obviously distributed among the parties in the region. There are many difficult issues before it's resolved, but I think that what we're now seeing is, as this resolution is negotiated, the final phase of the fighting battle, and the initial phase of the interpretation battle, who won, who didn't win, what were the circumstances, the Israelis are clearly now making an effort to lay the foundation to be able to claim they've defeated Hezbollah. Hezbollah is obviously, by this latest salvo of rockets and others laying the basis to be able to claim we were not defeated. I think that will play out over the next few days, parallel with the final negotiations over the resolution.
KING: Jim Clancy, we just heard from the charges d'affaires for Lebanon. What are you hearing in Lebanon about this resolution?
CLANCY: Well, the opposition of the resolution really starts on the streets, Larry. I was in the southern suburbs, people there are outraged by what they see is an attack on their civilian neighborhoods. Yes, they say sometimes a Hezbollah fighter or even a Hezbollah commander may have been living in an apartment block, but they don't see that as justification for collapsing a ten-story building on families that couldn't afford to leave, so there's a lot of anger, and that is translating into support for Hezbollah.
Now, the concern, I think, a lot of people have here in Lebanon, is that as Hezbollah is strengthened, is that going to encourage it to go into a cease-fire, or discourage it? Encourage it rather to hold out for longer, hold out for more concessions, hold out to try to bolster its positions. There's a lot of concern here. The politicians are reacting to that, what is on the streets. They realize that given the current situation, they risk an awful lot if they go out there and say yes the United Nations is right, yes, the United States is right, and we should go out long with this resolution.
What they're trying to accommodate all concerns and all sides, saying you've got to listen to the Lebanese, they have prisoners in Israel, they want them back. They do not want to see another Israeli occupation on their territory. On that, they are all united in their feelings.
KING: Thanks, Jim. We'll be back with our panel of Jim Clancy, George Mitchell and Her majesty, Queen Noor. Lots more to come on this special live Sunday night edition of LARRY KING LIVE. Don't go away.
KING: We're back. Here are the headlines. Hezbollah attacks on Israel, kill 15. The death toll in Lebanon tops 700, mostly civilians. Secretary of State Rice says U.N. resolution will show "who is for peace," expects a U.N. vote within days. And Lebanese prime minister says the draft resolution is "not adequate."
Let's go to Damascus, Syria. Aneesh Raman, our CNN international correspondent, who had an exclusive interview, by the way, with Amr Musa, the head of the Arab League.
What are they saying in Syria, Aneesh, about this proposed resolution?
ANEESH RAMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Larry, you have very ominous words. Syrian officials, the foreign minister in Beirut essentially saying that this draft resolution, if passed, is perhaps a prelude to a broader war.
The Syrian foreign minister also said Syria is ready for a regional war and reiterated that if Israel attacks Syria, it would respond with full force. Now, the Arab League secretary general, Amr Musa, I spoke to him here just before he headed into Beirut and he was visibly angry throughout the entire interview, frustrated that this resolution, as he said, falls far short of solving this crisis.
And I asked him, as a way to test the temperature -- you'll remember at the start of the crisis, more moderate Arab government, Saudi Arabia, Jordan relatively moderate, came out and condemned the initial abduction by Hezbollah of the Israeli soldiers. I asked him if the Arab League condemns that. And he was sitting in the back of his chair and he came forward and you could you tell how just really frustrated he was with it and he said, "Why would we condemn Hezbollah? Today in Palestine, the Israelis," he said, "abducted a Palestinian minister."
There is growing uniform support in the Arab world from the moderate to the extreme governments rallying behind Lebanon now. And his prognosis for the future in terms of any peace process between Israel and the Palestinians, but broader in the region, is very stark. He says this could allow the entire region, Larry, to combust.
KING: Aneesh, if this is a change for Syria, why the change?
RAMAN: Well, I think Syria, by the day, is growing more confident with its clout in the region. It is backed in Lebanon. You'll recall the troops were essentially kicked out under U.S. pressure. There were celebrations in Lebanon. Now the Syrian foreign minister is back in the Lebanese capitol, showing support with what they say is their Lebanese brethren. And by the day, Iran, as well, is growing stronger in clout.
As long as Hezbollah is still able to fight, as long as it is not decimated in terms of the rockets going into northern Israel, Syria and Iran are seeing the Arab world unite and they are seeing themselves becoming some of the more forceful voices within that group, Larry.
KING: What are they saying publicly about Hezbollah?
RAMAN: Publicly, and I've asked repeatedly since I've been here what sort of support they give Hezbollah, they say it is only moral support. They outright deny any arms that are going through Syria with its knowledge to arm the group.
They say that Hezbollah has already pointed to Iran as a source of its arms and that essentially is where Hezbollah is getting its arsenal. But, of course, there is a longstanding history between Syria and Hezbollah and it's in a difficult position, because while it downplays the relationships, as it's just morally supporting Hezbollah, that is the only reason, its relationship with Hezbollah, that Syria is a legitimate perhaps voice that has to be reckoned with in any peace deal because of the influence it could have over the group.
KING: Thanks, Aneesh. Let's go Michael Ware, our CNN international correspondent in the Bekaa Valley, a Hezbollah stronghold.
How long by the way, Michael, can Hezbollah keep this fight up? Israel is obviously much stronger.
MICHAEL WARE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Larry, judging by what I've seen over the past few days, and today we've moved throughout the Bekaa Valley, which, as you say, is Hezbollah's heartland. We even went down to what the Hezbollah fighters call the militarized zone, which is the combat area in the south.
We traveled to the north to their centers and, honestly, Larry, Hezbollah is intact, functioning, and appears more than able to continue this fight in the foreseeable future.
KING: How are they able to do that?
WARE: Well, Larry, there's just no end to the support on the ground. As they say, even if the Israeli claims of killing hundreds of the fighters are true, they're drawing from a pool of at least a couple of thousand, if not more. They're able to replenish their men in the field, it would seem, without much trouble.
They have what appears to be good supply of weapons and ammunition. What it seems to me would be the only thing that they will have difficulty with is their stockpile of Katyusha rockets. Once those rockets are fired and used, I suspect it's going to be very difficult for them to replenish that supply. Nonetheless, the secret supply lines, the rat lines in and out of their territories and in and out of Syria are very clearly open, Larry.
KING: Michael, the Lebanese charge d'affaires, a couple of minutes ago, said, in her opinion, Hezbollah will honor the U.N. resolution, but Hezbollah has rejected it. Do you think they'll honor it?
WARE: No, Larry, I think unless it's on very specific terms that puts things very much in their interests and recognizing their perception, the Hezbollah perception that Hezbollah has won this war or is winning this war outright, I don't think that they'll believe it's in their interests to recognize the resolution.
Nonetheless, we must understand that Hezbollah, which is tapping into a deep nationalist chord here in Lebanon and has shined great political savvyness, would, I suspect, hold its fire through the terms of a cease-fire if it thought that that would best play to its Lebanese constituency, Larry, although nonetheless, they will not leave.
Israeli soldiers on Lebanese soil and they will not just let them sit. They'll continue sniping away at them, but perhaps the missiles will stop or the rockets would stop or the scale of the operations would stop as we see them now, Larry.
KING: Thank you so much, Michael Ware, in Bekaa Valley, a Hezbollah stronghold, the CNN international correspondent.
When we come back, we'll meet a senior war correspondent for Lebanese Broadcasting and editor of "The Jerusalem Post." And then our panel will return. Don't go away.
KING: Let's go to Beirut, with Tanya Mahana, the senior war correspondent for Lebanese Broadcasting Corporation.
Are we getting mixed messages? The Lebanese charge d'affaires says what they heard so far, the resolution looks okay, but then we're hearing that the Lebanese government doesn't like it. What do we know?
TANYA MAHANA, SENIOR WAR CORRESPONDNET, LBC: The Lebanese government wants to make sure of one thing, that they won't have to handle Hezbollah on their own and give them an excuse to keep the fighting.
What was suggested at the prime minister's office with Prime Minister Siniora today during this whole diplomatic day of talks in Beirut was that the Israelis -- in order for this draft to be applicable or for the resolution, U.N. resolution to be applicable, the Israelis have to withdraw behind the blue line and then the Lebanese government will be able to send the Lebanese army between the border and the Litani River. The Lebanese army will be helped by the U.N. forces that are now, the UNIFIL forces, in Beirut. Plus, you can add some other forces from the countries willing to contribute to that force immediately, before another draft or another resolution is taken and changing basically the nature of the U.N. forces in south Lebanon.
They're also saying that anything, any agreement that's going to be taken by the Security Council has to take in consideration the Sheba Farms. It means the Sheba Farms has to go under the U.N. control as a first step before it's taken all the way later on, once the whole status of the Sheba Farms is solved, given back to the Lebanese government.
KING: Will Hezbollah, Tanya, honor it?
MAHANA: Will the Hezbollah honor it? Well, at that time, in case the Israelis withdraw behind the blue line, there is no excuse of the Sheba Farms anymore. There is an exchange of prisoners. I think this is the only thing the Hezbollah and Israelis agree on. Then Hezbollah will have no excuse to continue the fighting again.
So this is what the Lebanese government has been really focusing on and betting on. If this can work, then we might be able to really see a cease-fire that's going to be lasting.
KING: What do you hope from the Arab League meeting in Beirut, I think starting tomorrow?
MAHANA: Well, we hope that the Arab League is going to support what we call the Siniora plan, which is the plan with seven points in order to stop, to get to a cease-fire. If we can get the Arab support of this plan and the Arabs helping also on the reconstruction of Lebanon later on, the humanitarian aid, helping also to support this resolution or to support this plan, it will mean that also the displaced people will go back home so we can avoid another humanitarian crisis.
Then I think this can also -- maybe that will push the U.N. Security Council to take a resolution that will be more to the advantage of Lebanon than the one that's a bit controversial on some points, only on some points now.
KING: Thank you, Tanya. Tanya Mahana, the senior war correspondent for Lebanese Broadcasting.
Now, let's go to Jerusalem and David Horovitz, the editor of "The Jerusalem Post." What's been the impact of today's rocket attacks on Haifa?
DAVID HOROVITZ, EDITOR, "THE JERUSALEM POST": Well, it's been a terrible day, Larry. We had 12 Israeli soldiers, reservists who were killed close to the northern border by a Katyusha earlier the day and then we had this devastating attack on Haifa.
Israel, I think, feels that it's fighting a new kind of war against an enemy that is firing rockets into the civilian population of Israel indiscriminately and then crying foul when Israel tries to fire back. And the people in Israel I think feel that they have to win this war, they have to disable Hezbollah, which they feel sort of took over Lebanon and is now Iran's front line, if you like, attacking Israel.
KING: Has Hezbollah surprised Israel in its strength?
HOROVITZ: I think that Israel has felt very tangibly how bitterly dangerous Hezbollah was allowed to become. Remember, Israel pulled out of Lebanon six years ago, respected the international border and was promised by the international community that Hezbollah would not exploit that vacuum and, in fact, of course, the opposite happened and Hezbollah built up maybe 14,000 rockets, we are told, and, yes, Israel is feeling how potent Hezbollah was allowed to become and is, therefore, in a sort of a massive mainstream degree of support, saying to its own army, to its government, and hopefully to the international community, "Help us ensure that this cannot happen again."
KING: What's the Israeli reaction to the draft resolution so far?
HOROVITZ: I think there's a great deal of skepticism about international involvement. Remember that previous efforts at peace- making in Lebanon in the beginning of the '80s, you had Hezbollah in a twin suicide bombing killing 240 American Marines and 60 French paratroops. Then you had UNIFIL supposedly guaranteeing the peace in southern Lebanon in the last few years.
And, you know, we had a reporter who went to a UNIFIL post a few days ago in the middle of the war and the UNIFIL soldiers there told them they were only finding out about this conflict from the television.
So there's tremendous, tremendous skepticism and wariness, a hope in Israel that Israel's military achievements, such as they are, will now be concretized by the international community, a robust international force, making sure that Hezbollah really is disarmed, but a lot of misgivings and a lot of skepticism.
KING: Thanks, David. We'll be calling on you again. David Horovitz, editor of "The Jerusalem Post."
Carol Lin will host CNN "Sunday Night" at the top of the hour. Carol, what's up?
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: Larry, coming up in just 15 minutes, we're going to have all the latest on the attack on Haifa. I'll be co- anchoring with John Vause, who is live in Jerusalem.
And we have a special report, children becoming the preferred targets in a war zone. There is evidence. I talked with Amnesty International earlier tonight. I'm going to be talking with a Special Forces guy who actually interviewed al-Qaeda operatives in Western prisons to find out what is happening on the ground. Are there any rules of engagement?
All of this next on CNN "Sunday Night," right after "Larry King Live."
KING: Thanks, Carol. We'll see you at the top of the hour, that's 10:00 Eastern, 7:00 Pacific. And we'll be right back with our panel of Her Majesty Queen Noor, George Mitchell and Jim Clancy. Don't go away.
KING: We're back with our panel in Washington, Her Majesty Queen Noor. Why does it seem that we have the announcement of a draft U.N. resolution and an upsurge in violence, coincidence?
QUEEN NOOR: I'm not sure whether it's coincidence or not, but I would say, about the resolution, that I imagine that the Arab world and the Lebanese government and Hezbollah, and this is my personal guess, is hoping that this resolution is going to evolve and that it's going to improve and that, therefore, it's not the principle of not approving a U.N. Security Council resolution, but one that is balanced and takes into account the needs on all sides.
And I would also say that I very much hope that Secretary Rice was not setting up a black-and-white dichotomy when she said, "We'll see who's with peace or not," because you're with us, you're against us, you're with peace or not, and that dependent on your support of a resolution, which is controversial, would be a very -- it would not -- that would set up a dichotomy that I think is very dangerous and won't helpful to the whole process.
KING: George Mitchell, Jimmy Carter, former President Carter has said, in the "Grand Rapids Press" on Friday, "In my opinion, the worst ally Israel has had in Washington has been the George W. Bush administration, which hasn't worked to bring a permanent peace to Israel."
Carter also said, "The administration has pursued an erroneous policy which has encouraged the continuation of attacks on both sides." What do you think?
MITCHELL: That's strong criticism, Larry. I've said on your show that I did not agree with the policies of the administration, because I think they've been too passive in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and focused all of our attention and resources on Iraq.
I do think that we ought not to be surprised or discouraged by the fact that a first draft of a resolution is not immediately accepted by everyone. It would have been extraordinary, almost unbelievable, if a first draft had been accepted by everyone.
It's commonplace for there to be a lot of negotiation, being a first draft, and the final acceptance of a resolution. So I don't think there's anything to be disheartened about because not everybody agrees with the first draft.
My guess is that both sides have substantial reservations about some aspects of it and you can see where the main sticking points are, particularly with respect to the Israeli presence in southern Lebanon and at what point in time it is replaced by an international force.
So I think there's reason to be hopeful that this could evolve over the next few days into a successful resolution.
KING: Jim Clancy, Secretary Rice says, "The vote on the resolution will demonstrate who is for peace and who isn't." Is that a fair characterization? Is that language helpful, do you think?
CLANCY: No, I don't think that it is. When you look at a situation like this one, I think it's very difficult to put it in the black-and-white terms. I think what has to be said here is that the diplomats are working towards peace.
The secretary was very realistic, I thought, today when she said that "we don't expect this is going to end all of the hostilities, but if we can turn down the temperature a bit, if we can stop the major attacks and limit this conflict, save lives, in other words, while we work on a second agreement, while we try to implement something on the ground, whatever shape or form that takes, something on the ground that is going to lead to a more lasting solution and addresses the causes, then real progress will have been made."
But sometimes, you know, the diplomats get out there and they're trying to push things. They're trying to push all of the parties and they say things that they think will prod them into agreeing, into taking the steps that are necessary. After all, it was the French president, Jacques Chirac, today that told the Lebanese, he said, "All of the parties there have to live up to this agreement. They have to work for it, to make it work. In the end, it's not France and the U.S. or the Security Council that are going to make this work. It is Hezbollah and Israel that are going to make this work. All the parties have to support them."
KING: We'll be back with our remaining moments with our panel right after these words.
KING: We're back. Jim Clancy, you're in Beirut. Apparently, the Lebanese prime minister is not too happy with the resolution as read, the draft, said it's not adequate. Do you know what he wants?
CLANCY: He wants an end not only to this conflict, to save his country from billions of dollars in damage to its infrastructure, a tourism industry that lies in ruins. He also wants to see a permanent solution to the border problem that Lebanon has with Israel.
And like so many of the parties, remember, he's one prime minister and he's representing all of these diverse, different groups in Lebanon, the Druids, the Christians, the Sunni, as well as the Shia, he's trying to put something together that is going to disarm Hezbollah in the long term, without sparking violence within Lebanon.
That's what he really wants to do is bring some stability here and he understands that the only way that can he do that is, number one, with some international help, but also and very importantly, the Lebanese have to be shown the respect that they deserve to solve this.
The conflict as it is now is strengthening Hezbollah and making it more unlikely that it will disarm.
KING: Queen Noor, does the word "permanent" ever fit in the Middle East?
QUEEN NOOR: Permanent conflict? And I'm an optimist and don't believe that that's necessary and I've seen moments when it was not the case. I never believe in permanence, because I have seen the alternative.
In the mid 1990s, as I've mentioned before, I saw a different kind of atmosphere where Israelis and Arabs were reaching across conflict lines and beginning as individual citizens, as academicians, as businesspeople, as members of government, to look at our region and where we could find common ground and mutual benefit in regional projects.
And the most important thing was that was in an atmosphere of mutual respect and that is a word that Jim Clancy just mentioned, which I would reiterate is so fundamentally important, that you bring all parties to the table, that you treat everyone with respect, no matter how much you've demonized them as an enemy.
That only leads to violence and the alternative is to -- it gives us a chance of peace and security.
KING: George Mitchell, you helped settle Ireland, Great Britain. Is this comparable?
MITCHELL: I think this is more difficult, Larry, more complex. This is three struggles coming together, the broader struggle between Shia and Sunni within Islam, the struggle between Israelis and Palestinians, and the conflict internally within Lebanon, which I think is just now starting to get the attention that it deserves and the importance of resolving it, as many have said before.
But I think it can be resolved, I really do, Larry. I've been through this before, not quite as complicated or difficult, and it can be resolved, in my judgment.
KING: And, Jim Clancy, finally, in Beirut, do you see any optimism there?
CLANCY: Larry, there is some optimism. People, you know, hope -- they've seen their country built up in the past and they're just hoping that some day this country won't be used as the regulation- sized alleyway for the settling of regional conflicts.
They feel very much like outside forces have really determined their fate from the time before the civil war. They blamed it on a lot of people. They understand some of the blame is their own. They want to set things right and set them right for good.
KING: Thanks, Jim, on the scene in Beirut, Jim Clancy, CNN International co-anchor of "Your World Today." That's seen every day at noon Eastern on CNN. You ought to watch it. And he's covered this world for 30 years.
George Mitchell, the former Senate majority leader and international peace negotiator, and, of course, Her Majesty, Queen Noor, widow of His Majesty, King Hussein of Jordan and author, by the way, of a number one "New York Times" bestselling autobiography.
That's it for this special live Sunday night edition of "Larry King Live." Let's go now to Atlanta, Carol Lin and CNN "Sunday Night."
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