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American Morning
The Fight for Iraq; NASA Misplaces Moon Landing Tapes; Tagging Gators
Aired August 15, 2006 - 08:27 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: As much of our attention has been focused on Lebanon and Israel, the daily bombings continue in Iraq with some estimates putting the civilian death toll in the last month at about 3,000. That's a lot more than died in Southern Lebanon or northern Israel. The U.S. military toll is 58 just for this past month.
Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt, deputy director of the U.S. military's Central Command joining us now here to talk about it.
Good to have you with us here, general.
BRIG. GEN. MARK KIMMITT, CENTCOM DEP. DIR.: Hi, Miles.
O'BRIEN: Quick question, are we making any progress there?
KIMMITT: Well, I think we are, particularly on the security front, define progress by the ability for the Iraqi security forces themselves to take on more and more of their responsibility; we are making progress. Whole areas of Iraq, about one -third of Iraq, now is under Iraqi security control, and the Iraqi military is getting more experience, stronger everyday, more confident everyday.
Well, let me ask you this, you say they're getting stronger everyday, they're getting more confident everyday. Give me some hard numbers. I hear all kinds of numbers and I wonder how real those numbers are when we hear of actual Iraqi security forces ready to do the job. In other words, as the president put it, stand up.
KIMMITT: Sure. You've got about four divisions who are controlling battle space right now. We have four divisions on the ground right now, about 77 battalions, probably about 85,000, 90,000 troops on the ground taking the fight to the enemy every day. That's Iraqi forces.
Two years ago, we had roughly one battalion of 600. That force broke in combat. Now they are certainly not where they need to be. They have got a long way to go, but they are in fact getting better every day and their battlefield performance is quite admirable.
O'BRIEN: Let's listen to what the president has to say about this. I know you've heard it, but I just want to share it with our viewers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Our strategy can be summed up this way, as the Iraqis stand up, we will stand down.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: You just told us they are standing up. I don't see a lot of standing down.
KIMMITT: Well, again, there are still a number of problems. Quite recently, the issue of sectarian violence has caused the level of instability in the country to go up. There will be a time. We had about 160,000 American troops in Iraq back as recently as last December. We're now down to about 130,000. As conditions improve, that will give us the ability to bring some of those troops back. But at the same time, we've got to be very clear, if the situation does not get better, General Casey always has the ability to ask for more troops.
O'BRIEN: Well, and we do hear the stories of these poor 300 troops that came out of Iraq, go to Alaska, they get a U-turn order, have to get sent back. So there's a lot of families out there...
KIMMITT: Sure.
O'BRIEN: ... who, quite frankly, are fed up. In many cases, National Guard duty that has, you know, far exceeded their expectations, maybe not the letter of their contract, but exceeded their expectations. What do you say to them?
KIMMITT: Well, the first thing you've got to do is tell them the truth. Your troops, your sons, your daughters, your husbands, your wives are needed for about, in this case, about 120 days more. We saw the same thing in April of 2004. The entire First Armored Division, rather than go back to Germany, was held in country to deal with the Sadr uprising.
I think the troops want to finish the job. And if they left knowing that the job was left unfinished when they had the opportunity to stay, they want to get the job done. And they want to come back to a grateful nation with a job well done. And that's exactly what is happening.
O'BRIEN: Shift gears here a little bit and...
KIMMITT: Yes.
O'BRIEN: ... talk about what it's like to be an average Iraqi. We have a few measures that we were able to poll. Oil production is one thing that comes to mind. Yesterday we saw Iraqis waiting in line for gasoline, which is just an amazing thought. Pre-war production 2.5 million barrels a day, it's now 2.2 million barrels a day, but it's not getting, apparently, to Iraqi citizens the way it should. Electricity in Baghdad pre-war, they had 16 to 24 hours a day. Now they have 7.6 hour a day. This comes from the Brookings Institution. The average Iraqi life is getting worse in some ways, isn't it?
KIMMITT: Well you know some of those numbers are a bit misleading. The fact is pre-war oil production is about to where it was. Now there's an issue of refining, there's an issue of the fact that there's so many more cars inside of Iraq than there were.
On the issue of electricity, sure, it was great to be in Baghdad, that's where Saddam made sure the lights stayed on, but that was not electrical distribution that was distributed throughout the country. So nobody is suggesting that it is yet in Iraq where we want it to be. We still have a lot of work to do on the economic side, on the diplomatic side, on the military side.
O'BRIEN: But you can imagine, you talk about hearts and minds, and when you have some people who sit on top of the second or third largest oil reserve in the world, whether they have more cars or not, they should be able to buy gas for their tanks without having to wait in line for hours and hours. And, frankly, a lot of them expected the U.S. with its technological powers to be able to turn the lights on by now.
KIMMITT: Yes.
O'BRIEN: That's a difficult thing to respond to when the Iraqis say why haven't you been able to deliver on this promise?
KIMMITT: No, I think that's true. And I think that is one of the issues that we always have to confront, whether it's at a national level, when you talk about the large aggregate statistics, or at a local level, when that young captain on the ground is trying to turn to the local tribal sheikh and say we're going to make life better here.
But I think people just need to have patience and persistence. Insurgencies take somewhere on the order of 8 to 15 years usually to defeat. And we have got to have that same sense of patience. The people of Iraq have to have that patience because the alternatives are so grim that they understand, we would hope they understand, that it's worth waiting for.
O'BRIEN: A final thought here, I wanted to share with you some numbers from a "Newsweek" poll, just see what you think about this. They asked people just over this past weekend do you think the Iraq war has made Americans safer from terrorism? Thirty-two percent say yes, 63 percent say no. And this whole linkage to the war on terror and the war in Iraq, I think, at least if you look at that poll, some would suggest Iraq has done no good in that front. What would you say to that?
KIMMITT: Well, first of all, I would say that I think we need to make the better case to the American people to make them understand that when you have extremists, such as Zarqawi running around the country of Iraq with clear intentions of turning Iraq into a Taliban- like existence, such as we saw inside of Afghanistan, the linkages are there. The linkages are not simply in Iraq, they're not simply in Afghanistan but throughout that entire region.
The threat that is posed by al Qaeda and its associated movements can't be understated. Most recently we saw whether it was al Qaeda directed or al Qaeda inspired the situation in Britain, the airplane plot. The threat from terrorism exists, it is real and it is a threat to this country.
O'BRIEN: But has the Iraq action on the part of the U.S. emboldened Iran in such a way that has caused more destabilization and potentially more terrorism?
KIMMITT: It is clear that Iran is a state sponsor of terror. The recent activities in southern Lebanon, the recent uprising Hezbollah, the linkages back to Iran are clear and convincing. Iran needs to be an element for stability in that region. It does not need to be -- take its present course of developing nuclear weapons or inspiring its terrorist proxies. It needs to be a force for good. It needs to be a force for stability in the region. Its present course of trying to create itself in a new fashion as a new regional hedgeman is unhelpful to stability in the region.
O'BRIEN: But has the U.S. made it worse?
KIMMITT: I think these are decisions made by Iran themselves. These are decisions made by President Ahmadi-Najad himself. Whether America has made it better or worse, they have a responsibility themselves to be a force for good in the region, that's their choice.
O'BRIEN: Thank you for being with us, sir.
Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt, Central Command Deputy Director, coming in from Qatar to see us, we appreciate that.
KIMMITT: Thank you.
O'BRIEN: All right -- Carol.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Something to look for later on CNN on "CNN LIVE FROM" at 1:00 p.m. Eastern, the American soldier who blew the whistle on Abu Ghraib is finally telling his story. Joe Darby will join Kyra Phillips today on "CNN LIVE FROM." She'll ask him about sleeping with a pistol under his pillow and why he can't go back to his hometown again. That's at 1:00 p.m. Eastern on CNN.
And I know, Chad, Kyra is somewhere in the newsroom already busily typing.
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes.
COSTELLO: Researching.
MYERS: Yes.
COSTELLO: She's a workhorse that Kyra.
MYERS: Yes, she's right here. She looks good. It was her birthday the other day, too, by the way.
COSTELLO: Really, how old was she?
MYERS: I...
COSTELLO: Come on, tell, come on.
MYERS: I'm not saying.
COSTELLO: Come on.
MYERS: It had a zero in it, maybe.
(WEATHER REPORT)
Back to you guys.
COSTELLO: We'll be looking forward to them or maybe not.
MYERS: Not.
COSTELLO: Yes.
Thank you, Chad.
Still to come, Bird Flu shows up in the United States, but it may not be a cause for alarm. We'll take a look in "House Call."
O'BRIEN: And one small step for man, one giant mess up for NASA. How could they lose the original moon landing tapes, or I guess it's correct to say misplaced them. That's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NEIL ARMSTRONG, ASTRONAUT: It's one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: If you were on this planet then, and old enough, you no doubt remember these grainy iconic images as Neil Armstrong set foot on the moon, the crowning conclusion to the Apollo program. It cost us $135 billion in today dollars. And the original master tapes of that historic moment, 700 boxes full, are lost now. Apparently the originals have a lot better quality, as well, because of the method by which they converted it to television, which essentially was using a camera to shoot another screen, kind of like kinetoscope.
Roger Launius is Chairman of the Smithsonian Institution's Space History Division. Knows as much about Apollo as anybody on this planet today.
Good to have you with us, -- Roger.
ROGER LAUNIUS, SMITHSONIAN INSTITUTION: Thanks, Miles, good to be here.
O'BRIEN: Yes, yes, I think a lot of people are surprised that you know we got -- we've kept track of the rocks. We know that. We have the moon rocks. They are in a depository in Houston with a few exceptions. But these tapes you would think would be a top priority and well labeled as important, don't you think?
LAUNIUS: Well one would think that they were well labeled and one would think that they are probably out there somewhere. Misplaced, I suspect, and we just need to find them.
O'BRIEN: Now you're a curator, so you know how these things kind of go and the flow of important things. These boxes would have ended up in the archives somewhere or in the possession of the archives.
LAUNIUS: Right, they went to the National Archives at one point. They were called back by NASA for a while, and maybe they went back to the National Archives, we're not quite sure of that. And when they go to the National Archives, we're talking about billions of documents and millions of boxes of material. It's not an easy task sorting out exactly where they might be. And the reality is, if you recall the movie "Raiders of the Lost Ark," that last scene where they roll the ark in a box into this nondescript warehouse, that's not too far off some of the federal record centers that I have seen.
O'BRIEN: Yes, we've got a little clip from the movie here. This is "Raiders of the Lost Ark." We all remember this scene. It gets locked, stenciled and then there's this final scene with this huge warehouse box after box after box and those -- there are really places like that?
LAUNIUS: There are. There are places that are huge warehouses. We like to think that the materials that are in there are a little better inventoried than what was depicted in that particular film, but that's not always the case. We do misplace things and people will re- find it years later and get very excited about something that had been missing for a long period of time.
O'BRIEN: All right. So what happened back then was this much better quality imagery came down. And the only way to get it into the NTSE standard, which is what people are watching us on now, was to actually use a camera to shoot another screen. And so there's a lot of degradation. Do we know how much better this footage might be?
LAUNIUS: We don't really have a clear idea of exactly how much better it is except the recollections of the people who were there at the time who were performing that work. They said that the downlink was much better than what got broadcast.
O'BRIEN: And, by the way, these are pictures taken by still cameras, which, fortunately, the guys took the lens cap off and brought the film back and they haven't lost these. What is interesting about it, there's a little twist to this as well, the one machine which can play these one-off tapes that NASA used back in 1969 is at the Goddard Space Flight Center about 20 miles from where you are right now in Maryland.
LAUNIUS: Right.
O'BRIEN: And it's about to be decommissioned. They have got to keep that thing alive and well, don't they? LAUNIUS: It's important that we maintain the capability to read past types of materials, regardless of whether or not it's this videotape or any other kinds of things that might go in terms of technology and its development over time. We've got to be able to look at this legacy material.
O'BRIEN: All right, that means save the Betamax machines, too, I guess, right? Excuse me.
Roger Launius from the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum, always a pleasure talking with you.
LAUNIUS: Thanks. Good to be here.
O'BRIEN: Have a good day.
Coming up, we're "Minding Your Business." One TV network wants to pay you $50,000 for having a baby. Me? No, that must mean somebody else.
COSTELLO: That would be something.
O'BRIEN: Not me. That all depends on when you have it, though. Stay with us and we'll explain.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: It is open season now on gators in Florida. The 2006 alligator hunting season officially starts today. Wildlife officials meanwhile have been rounding them up, checking their vitals and setting them free all in an effort to learn more about Florida's swamp things which are growing in number.
CNN's John Zarrella has more for you.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Off in the distance, a pair of eerie lights shine. Suddenly these eyes disappear. The alligator has submerged beneath the dark waters of the Loxahatchee Wildlife Refuge about 30 miles north of Fort Lauderdale, but there are plenty of others to catch.
Biologist Frank Mazzotti leans over the edge of the airboat. Laura Brandt, with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, scans the water. One suddenly appears. Quickly Mazzotti has the noose over its head.
Mazzotti and Brandt are studying the health of the Florida alligator population.
LAURA BRANDT, U.S. FISH AND WILDLIFE SERVICE: Taking the noose off.
FRANK MAZZOTTI, BIOLOGIST: Yes.
BRANDT: You got his head?
MAZZOTTI: Got his head.
BRANDT: OK, and put some electrical tape on there.
MAZZOTTI: I think we should do that.
ZARRELLA: Gators, considered an endangered species until the late '80s, have made a remarkable comeback, so much so the state now has an annual alligator hunting season. But biologists have found that not all gators are created equal.
MAZZOTTI: Twenty-seven point five.
BRANDT: And what the tail girth does is it gives us an indication of how fat the animal is.
ZARRELLA: Gators in north Florida are much healthier than those in the Everglades. The scientists want to know why. It's perhaps related to diet and environment. And no one really knows how many gators are out there. Over one million is the estimate.
MAZZOTTI: It is a great success story because truly are -- there are too many to count.
ZARRELLA: This study will help determine how many are in particular areas.
BRANDT: Easy. Let go.
MAZZOTTI: Let it go.
ZARRELLA: But Mazzotti says it may be impossible to get a total population count.
MAZZOTTI: And that's because there's going to be so much variability between different areas as to the density of alligators.
ZARRELLA: These captured gators are measured for length.
MAZZOTTI: One sixty-eight point four.
ZARRELLA: And they are weighed. Each animal is numbered by counting the protruding scales on the tail. The ones on the right are called the hundreds.
BRANDT: OK, so 300, 1, 2, 3.
ZARRELLA: The scales on the left are the tens. Where the tail narrows to a single row, those represent single digits. With her knife, Brandt cuts off the scale that corresponds to its number.
BRANDT: One.
ZARRELLA: This gator is number 381. A bit worn out, it's released. In a year the biologists will be back marking new gators and rounding up the marked ones on another moonlit night to check their development and hopefully learn more about these mysterious reptiles.
John Zarrella, CNN, Loxahatchee, Florida.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: Wow, that's something. I was on a gator hunt once. That is -- it's really scary.
COSTELLO: You were not.
JENNIFER WESTHOVEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yikes.
O'BRIEN: I was. I was on a gator hunt years ago. And they said look at that log over there. And when I was -- I said, you know what, that log is looking back at us. Yes, it was a...
COSTELLO: Wait, wait, wait, what did you use to hunt them with, did you have a big...
O'BRIEN: They had a thing called a bang stick which is essentially a shock gun thingy, that -- it was bloody.
Anyway, we will press on. I'm sorry you're having your Wheaties, aren't you?
COSTELLO: I'm sorry, I am. I'm sorry I asked.
O'BRIEN: How are we going to get to Jennifer now?
Jennifer, take it away. Good to see you.
WESTHOVEN: OK. Thank you.
If you're pregnant, maybe you know somebody who is due in September?
COSTELLO: No.
O'BRIEN: No, and I don't.
WESTHOVEN: All right, well...
O'BRIEN: But this could be big, right, if you do?
WESTHOVEN: This could be. If you know someone who is,...
O'BRIEN: Yes.
WESTHOVEN: ... they could get a lot of money for this. Jeff Foxworthy has a new show coming out. It's a sketch comedy. And of course you know everybody is always trying to...
COSTELLO: What is it, sell your baby?
WESTHOVEN: No, no, no, but it's Labor Day so this is his new baby.
O'BRIEN: I get it, Labor Day.
WESTHOVEN: So that's the joke. If someone you know has a baby right near the beginning of the show, and that's whatever time it is in your local market, if you call up and tell the show on the day that it premiers, there is a $50,000 gift for the mom.
O'BRIEN: Wait a minute, there's multiple time zones we're talking about here.
WESTHOVEN: Yes.
O'BRIEN: So there will be multiple gifts then depending...
WESTHOVEN: No. Whoever is closest to the beginning of the show...
O'BRIEN: OK, I see.
WESTHOVEN: ... but then in their time zone.
O'BRIEN: I see. I'm with you.
WESTHOVEN: So it's a little complicated.
COSTELLO: He's still on his gator hunt.
WESTHOVEN: Then each additional episode...
O'BRIEN: Yes.
WESTHOVEN: ... some other mom can get $5,000.
COSTELLO: Wow!
WESTHOVEN: So that's like a money marketing thing that we know about right now and to promote a TV show.
But of course the other marketing tool that we've been talking about for a little while is the personalization touch, which is Samuel L. Jackson can call you up and leave you a message, a personal message, with your name and everything, something about your job.
O'BRIEN: Well it's not really him, it's a recording of him.
WESTHOVEN: Well it's a recording.
O'BRIEN: Yes.
WESTHOVEN: But they have got all kinds of different things on file, a lot of different names on file.
COSTELLO: Come on, do your astounding like...
WESTHOVEN: Well if you're -- it was Saturday and I got this message saying you know...
O'BRIEN: You really got it, really?
COSTELLO: She got it down. Go on.
WESTHOVEN: Quit with your job in the media, quit messing with your big fancy hair, don't. Go get your homeboy Greg, hop into a big yellow cab and go get yourself to go see "Snakes on a Plane."
COSTELLO: See, isn't that a great impersonation?
O'BRIEN: That's what he said?
WESTHOVEAN: That's what he said. And it's a lot longer.
O'BRIEN: Yes.
WESTHOVEN: In fact, yes, we got a clip from it. That's going to sound a lot better than...
O'BRIEN: Let's listen.
SAMUEL L. JACKSON, ACTOR: "Snakes on a Plane" just might be the best motion picture ever made. It's that good. Just hop in that big yellow taxi, go get your co-worker, Jennifer, and go see "Snakes on a Plane."
WESTHOVEN: That was one for me.
COSTELLO: How did he know your name?
O'BRIEN: This really was -- this is passive (ph) to you.
WESTHOVEN: Yes.
O'BRIEN: Wait a minute, wait a minute, does everybody...
COSTELLO: How did he get your name?
WESTHOVEN: You go to the Internet site.
O'BRIEN: Because you're special.
WESTHOVEN: You go to the Internet site and you can personalize it. So you can send this to anyone if you want to go and see the premier. That's what it is all about.
O'BRIEN: That is Marvel marketing alright.
WESTHOVEN: So it's a lot of fun. And this has been a very Marvel marketing story, right, they were going to change the name, the bloggers went crazy, "Snakes on a Plane" it is.
O'BRIEN: "Snakes on a Plane." We've got gators in a pond and "Snakes on a Plane" this morning, all reptiles all the time.
All right, thank you, Jennifer, see you in another hour or so.
A look at the day's top stories ahead after a short break. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN NICHOLSON, COMPANY FLOWERS & GIFTS, TOO!: I love these colored flowers.
LINDA STOUFFER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In retirement, you might say John Nicholson stopped and smelled the roses, lots of roses. The former lobbyist and journalist is running a flower and gift shop with his wife, Marnie.
NICHOLSON: We make a profit, but we're not building up a huge mother load. Because, what the heck, we're having fun.
STOUFFER: The business started out small, just John, Marnie and their daughter, but now they are up to 10 full-time employees. And John says the flower business isn't all that different from the whitewashed walls of lobbying.
NICHOLSON: Instead of selling ideas, I'm now selling flowers and gifts. So you know it's basically the same thing. I enjoy schmoozing people.
STOUFFER: And he says the business of selling flowers is rarely dull.
NICHOLSON: You know there are lots of interesting things that happen. We have one fellow who comes in every Valentine's Day, buys three dozen roses, red roses, three separate orders with three separate women, and the cards are always the same. They always say you're the only one.
STOUFFER: Linda Stouffer, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: A harrowing journey back home, thousands of refugees streaming back into Lebanon and a rocky road ahead for them.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: What role does Iran play in the unrest in the Middle East? I'm Barbara Starr. I'll have that story coming up.
JOE JOHNS, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Uncle Sam is securing the skies and the border but what about your wallet? I'm Joe Johns. I'll have that coming up.
COSTELLO: And stop using that Dell laptop immediately. Check your battery, it could burst into flames. A history making recall on this AMERICAN MORNING.
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