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American Morning

Ramsey Murder Case; 'Fair' Politics; Interview with Matt Dillon

Aired August 18, 2006 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: All morning we're looking at the inconsistencies in that stunning confession in the JonBenet Ramsey murder case. John Mark Karr told the world yesterday he killed 6- year-old JonBenet Ramsey nearly 10 years ago, but there are major holes in his story.
Dr. Cyril Wecht has studied the Ramsey case in depth. Even writing a book titled, "Who Killed JonBenet Ramsey?" Dr. Wecht, the renowned forensic pathologist, joins us now from Pittsburgh.

Thanks for joining us this morning.

DR. CYRIL WECHT, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Hi. Good morning. Nice to be with you.

COSTELLO: Nice to have you with us. I'm going to read you the latest stuff that we got in on Mr. Karr. This was in "The Rocky Mountain News," and these were e-mail he supposedly sent to this Colorado law professor who initially turned him over to the authorities. So I'm just going to read two of them for you.

Here goes -- He says, "JonBenet, my love, my life, I shall love you and shall forever love you. I pray that you can hear my voice calling out to you from my darkness, this darkness that now separates us.

In another e-mail, he says, "I will an tell you that I can understand people like Michael Jackson and feel sympathy when he suffers as he has. I am trapped in a world that does not understand." Does this sound like someone who could...

WECHT: He is a pedophile bordering upon a psychotic state, there's no question. And I don't mean to intruded upon the domain of my distinguished colleagues in forensic psychology. But there's no question, when you see him walking and talking he's Mr. Spaceman, these words I love you, I love you, and so on, his infatuation, his of course psychological attraction to pedophilia and the practice of pedophilia. I make no apologies for Mr. Karr. It is not for me to depend him and his past.

COSTELLO: But when did he come up with that obsession? Was it...

WECHT: Well, exactly, exactly. And then he tells us, look, this little girl, whom he loved, that he planned to kidnap her, he wanted to kidnap her and take her home. I remember seeing a wonderful English movie many years ago about that kind of abduction for romantic purposes of a young girl, but he doesn't write the note in advance, and he doesn't take pen and paper to write the note there. Then he tells us he drugged her, then tells us he raped her, physical sexual intercourse. There was no drugging, no chemical compound found in her body. There was no definitely no rape. There was definitely no penile penetration. What we have is some very superficial injuries, which I think are consistent with digital penetration.

COSTELLO: Everybody in America probably agrees with you, that there are major holes in this guy's story and he's just an obsessed kind of weirdo don't you think the d.a.'s office might have something we don't know about?

WECHT: Sure. That's possible. And, look, if my theory proves to be wrong, I'll be the first one to publicly acknowledge it. Invite me on your program and I'll even apologize if one is requested or desired by the Ramsey family and so on.

But in the meantime, let us deal with facts. And with regard to the district attorney, and I'm not attacking her, but I would make some observations. DNA testing of materials found under JonBenet's fingernail and presumably on her underpants, could we not have had DNA testing done by now? Mr. Karr was available in Thailand. The specimen to be obtained and subjected to DNA testing for comparison.

COSTELLO: And you could get the DNA from his kids, too, right?

WECHT: Well, yes, but it is different. You'd get some profiling, but only partial. DNA is unique to the individual, unless you are an identical twin. Nobody else in the world has your DNA.

Then we have writing exemplars, letters and words, from that so- called kidnapping note. Could that not have been attained and subjected to scrutiny by question document examiners. So these are things that could have been done. Maybe, maybe they have been done, and all of this is being withheld. I kind of find that hard to believe.

So my purpose is not to criticize the district attorney. That will play out and can be addressed down the road.

But in the meantime, with regard to Mr. Karr, look at him, listen to his words, ask yourself what proof there is that he was in Boulder. Christmas holiday is the most important national holiday, even for people who are non-Christians. I'm Jewish, but I can tell you where i've been every Christmas. It's been a wonderful holiday season for me and my family. This man, and his family and his friends and relatives, was he in Boulder or was he not in Boulder? That should not be the most difficult piece of police investigative work ever undertaken. How did he get into the house? Where is his portal of entry. Where is the portal of egress?

And by the way, I would like to hear some of the answers before the information is inadvertently imparted to him through the course of discussion and interrogation by the authorities in Boulder, who have bought into the intruder theory. And that's something to be kept in mind. The district attorney...

COSTELLO: I wish we could go on with this, but we can't, we can't, we can't, and we don't know what the district attorney has because she's not really talking very much, is she?

WECHT: OK, we'll hear.

COSTELLO: But thank you very much, forensic pathologist Dr. Cyril Wecht.

WECHT: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: It's August, and all across the land farmers are bringing prized livestock and oversized crops to fairgrounds and the annual state fair. But in Iowa another species on display, a group of overachieving, migratory political wonks who believe the road to the White House passes right through Des Moines.

AMERICAN MORNING's Bob Franken is there at the crossroads on a rainy Friday.

Hello, Bob.

BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATL. CORRESPONDENT: Hello.

And you can see behind me the different food stands. The motto here I think is, if it ain't fried, it ain't here. And this is a fair that attracts about a million people each year. Some of them are not politicians.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FRANKEN (voice-over): Did you know there are 20 different foods on a stick at the Iowa State Fair.

GOV. BILL RICHARDSON (D), NEW MEXICO: Nice to see you. How are you?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Welcome to the Iowa State Fair!

FRANKEN: And about a dozen possible candidates for president.

RICHARDSON: Nice to see you -- Bill Richardson.

FRANKEN: Democratic New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson happened to be in the neighborhood yesterday. So was one of the Republicans.

SAM BROWNBACK: Sam Brownback.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nice to meet you.

FRANKEN: So far this month, 10 potential candidates have stopped by the state fair here, a year and a half before the all-important Iowa party caucus. Joe Biden was here Wednesday, a day after Republican John McCain. The visitors have included a roll call of presidential wannabes, among them Pataki, bye, Gingrich, Bill Frist and John Kerry are coming.

Meanwhile those they'll need to impress are waiting to have their pet issues addressed.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Cutting taxes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cut taxes. Stopping crime, family values.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'd like to see them address renewable energy, and emphasize that it isn't the price of energy, but our dependence on foreign oil.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In my opinion for the next election I really want to see that they're pro military and treat our military guys right. Don't just leave them high and dry overseas.

FRANKEN (on camera): What's the core issues for you? What are you...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right now it's the war.

FRANKEN (voice-over): Right now, the candidates are here mainly to be seen.

DAVID RELAWSK, ASST. PROF., U. OF IOWA: Media comes to Iowa. The candidates come to Iowa. The media comes to Iowa. There's sort of a back-and-forth symbiotic relationship.

FRANKEN: But for normal people, the political cattle show doesn't compare to the real thing. Or the real bull. Or to the butter sculpture of a cow. Or to Waldo the huge hog. No lipstick on this pig.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FRANKEN: And what is the lesson, Miles, that a presidential candidate can learn from a fair like this? Watch where you step.

O'BRIEN: Always look down and make sure you bring an umbrella is what they're learning today, as well. You never know where the cow pies might be on the road to the White House.

Thank you, Bob Franken.

COSTELLO: I was thinking more of the corn dogs. I never eat those things.

Hot on the heels of that battery recall, more bad news for Dell Computer. We've got a federal investigation to tell you about in "Minding Your Business."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Who made their mark this week? Well, in the last 24 hours we've seen a media whirlwind engulfing John Mark Karr, John Ramsey and others connected to the JonBenet murder case. Karr, arrested in Bangkok, says he accidentally killed the 6-year-old back in '96. But 10 years ago the focus was on JonBenet's mother and father. The Boulder district attorney is certainly making her mark this week.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO (voice-over): Ten years ago the murder of JonBenet Ramsey became a media circus after law-enforcement officials pointed fingers at the parents John and Patsy Ramsey.

CHIEF MARK BECKNEW, BOULDER POLICE: They do remain under an umbrella of suspicion, but we're not ready to name any suspects.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I felt that Patsy is involved in this death, in this tragedy, and I felt it had become such a debacle and was going nowhere.

COSTELLO: The Ramseys defended themselves and warned others not to jump to conclusions.

PATSY RAMSEY: There is a killer on the loose.

JOHN PATSEY: Absolutely.

P. RAMSEY: I don't know who it is. I don't know if it's a he or a she.

COSTELLO: Then this week, a new development in the case: A suspect has been arrested, in a distant country.

MARY LACY, BOULDER CO. D.A.: As you are now aware, John Mark Karr, 41 years old, was arrested for the murder of JonBenet Ramsey yesterday morning at approximately 6:00 a.m. in Bangkok, Thailand.

COSTELLO: This time the Boulder district attorney, Mary Lacy, who has kept the 10-year-old case alive, was determined to heed the Ramsey's advice. She even quoted John Ramsey as the voice of reason.

LACY: There's a great deal of speculation and a desire for quick answers here. We should all heed the poignant advice of John Ramsey yesterday -- he said, "Do not jump to conclusions. Do not jump to judgment. Do not speculate. Let the justice system take its course."

COSTELLO: Lacy's measured response and tenacity have served her well. She joined the boulder D.A. office in 1983 and earned the reputation as a tough prosecutor in sex-assault cases.

On Thursday, she tried to make clear the investigation of the new suspect in the JonBenet case has not yet been completed, suggesting the arrest was speeded up to safeguard the children the suspect had just begun teaching, or to make sure he didn't flee.

LACY: Let us do our job thoroughly and carefully. The analysis of the evidence in this case continues on a day-by-day, on an hour-by- hour basis. COSTELLO: We don't know if she will be successful, but Mary Lacy made her mark this week by recognizing the importance of presuming innocence until a suspect is proved guilty.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: Mary Lacy's news conference was frustrating, to say the least, for the media and others across the land. Virtually no information came out that we didn't know before. Some say she was actually covering her you know what by intimating that Mr. Karr was picked up in Bangkok to protect children. That way if nothing comes of this JonBenet Ramsey investigation, then of course she can always say, but we've saved other children from Mr. Karr.

O'BRIEN: Well, it will be interesting to see if there is some sort of DNA link. That'll settle it one way or another.

COSTELLO: Certainly will.

O'BRIEN: We'll be watching it, of course.

Coming up in the program, actor Matt Dillon joining us live in the studio. We're told he's in the building.

COSTELLO: That's according to security. He's on his way up.

O'BRIEN: He's on his way. He'll talk about his new movie, "Factotum." It's kind after story of a lowlife loser, but it's fascinating. It's gritty. It's interesting. It's -- he's had an interesting career, from teen idol to -- man he's got some acting chops.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Well, this is the antidote to "Snakes on a Plane," I think. Matt Dillon, gone from Hollywood, teen idol, to serious movie star. He's got a great movie coming out which shows some real dimension. It's actually a subtle movie. It's not at all "Snakes on a Plane."

His latest film is called "Factotum" and he plays Henry Chinaski, a wannabe writer with a passion for booze, women and a spotty blue collar resume. Sounds like me.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sit down, Chinaski. You knew we were going to let you go.

MATT DILLON, ACTOR: Yes, bosses are never hard to fathom.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You haven't been pulling your weight around here for over a month, and you know it.

DILLON: You know, a guy busts his damn ass, and you don't even appreciate it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You haven't been busting your ass, Chinaski!

DILLON: I've given you my time, which is all I've got to give.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: All right. Matt Dillon joining us. Great performance. Must have been -- must have tested your acting limits a little bit.

DILLON: Well, when they first came to me about doing it, I was a little bit surprised, because it's based on, you know, Chinaski's the alter ego of the Charles Bukowski, the author. And, you know, he was so physically different than me. I read all of his novels and short stories in my early 20s, so my reference to him was the author who wrote books like "Notes of a Dirty Old Man." He achieved success as a writer so late in the game that, you know, just my reference to him was in my early 20s. So, anyway...

O'BRIEN: You had to reinvent this persona around yourself.

DILLON: Yes, yes. Well, I am at the right age of Bukowski when he chronicled this -- this period of time in his life in "Factotum." So, you know, it was pointed out to me that it is the alter ego, so you do have some room to wiggle. And I think that's what gave me the freedom to be able to explore the character.

O'BRIEN: So when you heard about this one, since you're a fan of Bukowski, you leapt right at the opportunity then?

DILLON: Well, yes. I mean, when I read the script, I thought it was great. I liked the director. I thought that the film was doing things that I hadn't seen before in a film, which is always interesting. You know, and I like the challenge of it.

I mean, I think the -- the behavior of this character is very specific. Playing a skid row drunk. I mean, one of the things about Bukowski is that he -- one of the things -- the thing that is engraved on his tombstone, it said "Don't Try." And to me, that said so much about the performance of the character.

O'BRIEN: What does that really mean, though, "don't try"?

DILLON: I think -- well you have to know Bukowski a little bit. But, I mean, he's a guy who basically surrendered to this lifestyle. He basically made sacrifices to live the life of a poet, you know, to live the lifestyle he lives. Almost taking like a vow of poverty. You know, there's a poem in the film called "Roll the Dice," which defines everything that he was all about.

O'BRIEN: What -- when you saw the script you were going to read in here -- teen idol to actor with some real subtlety and dimension. You don't like the teen idol label at all, even if it's in the past?

DILLON: No, I mean, it was just something in -- yes. It just sort of like has nothing to do with what I do as an actor. Those things are always -- you know, any sort of label as movie star, that stuff really is -- are things that are decisions that other people make. It has nothing to do with what I do.

O'BRIEN: All right. Well, let me ask you this. In "Crash," you played the racist cop who comes to terms with it. It was a great performance. And this, I saw a great performance, as well. A lot of dimension. It's complicated. It's not -- but there's no "Snakes on a Plane," right?

DILLON: No...

O'BRIEN: So if somebody gives you the script "Snakes on a Plane" with a big fat check beside it, are you going to do it?

DILLON: Yes. I mean, I like...

O'BRIEN: You'd do it?

DILLON: Yes, I like all types of films. I like -- I think as long as the film is cinematic. You know, if you're going to do a film for the big screen, it should be cinematic. It can be a small film or it can be a big film. But there's got to be something about it that when the audience sits down, there's an atmosphere there. The atmosphere is really important. That's why I like "Factotum." Great characters, I thought, and I love the atmosphere, the texture of the film.

O'BRIEN: Agreed. All right. Thanks for coming in. Matt Dillon.

DILLON: Thank you very much.

O'BRIEN: The movie is "Factotum." It opens large today. We appreciate you being here.

DILLON: You got it.

O'BRIEN: Carol?

COSTELLO: Do we have to check the numbers on Wall Street?

(BUSINESS HEADLINES)

COSTELLO: Coming up at the top of the hour, John Karr's arrest raises the question, are we doing enough to screen our teachers?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No fingerprints, no criminal background check, no job.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Teacher background check. Who requires them, and do they work? More on AMERICAN MORNING, right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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