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President Bush Delivers Speech on War on Terror

Aired September 06, 2006 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, HOST: I'm Kyra Phillips at CNN World Headquarters in Atlanta.
Secret prison, terror suspect, interrogation techniques. Should all prisoners be treated the same way?

Wildfires raging in Montana. Hundreds of people flee. Homes up in flames. Will the weather help or hurt?

His dad says he was just an ordinary bloke. Steve Irwin's father brags about his wildlife warrior but declines some high honors. Emotional tributes from around the world, from the CNN NEWSROOM.

The rule of law and the war on terror. This hour, President Bush tries to rework his idea for military tribunals for terror suspects at Guantanamo Bay. His first plan was shot down by the Supreme Court in June. We're on the story from all angles.

Jamie McIntyre is at the Pentagon, and senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin is in New York.

Jamie, let's start with you.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the first thing the Pentagon did today was announce that it is essentially completely overhauling its policies for the treatment and the detaining and the interrogation of detainees. This in an effort to answer the criticism of the Supreme Court, in fact, international criticism of U.S. detention policies.

It comes in two parts. The first is an overall directive that applies to everyone in the Department of Defense. And it essentially says, quote, that all detainees, underscore, all detainees, shall be treated humanly and in accordance with U.S. law, the law of war, and applicable U.S. policy, including the standards articulated in Common Article III of the Geneva Conventions. That was something that the Pentagon had objected to in the past.

The second part of this is the revision of the Army Field Manual, which will go to every person involved in interrogations that specifically outlines what procedures are acceptable and which ones are not.

Here's what the Pentagon said about what that field manual says when it goes to all the troops.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) LT. GEN. JOHN KIMMONS, ARMY DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF FOR INTELLIGENCE: The new field manual incorporates a single standard for humane treatment, as was alluded to, for all detainees, regardless of their status under all circumstances in conjunction with all interrogation techniques that are contained within it. And there are no others.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCINTYRE: There are no other techniques other than the ones in this publicly available document that will be going to all the soldiers.

And in addition it goes into great detail, explaining, as they say in plain English, not written for lawyers, what can and cannot be done. And it lists eight specific things that are specifically banned, based on some of the abuses in the past. They include, quote, "a ban on forced nudity or sexual acts." A ban on the use of hoods or duct tape, something that we've seen in the transportation of detainees. It bans beatings, the use of electric shock, any inflation of pain, really.

The technique known as waterboarding, which is a simulated drowning technique, that has been alleged to have been used by the CIA. Hypothermia or any sort of heat distress, mock executions, withholding of food or water and even the use of dogs, except for a security situation. But they can't be used in interrogations.

In addition, they've added two approved techniques, something called good cop/bad cop and also they call false flag. That's where an integrator pretends he's not with the U.S. government. Those are two new approved techniques.

And there's only one technique now that is approved for use only on unlawful enemy combatants, not prisoners of war. And that technique is called separation. That's where they separate detainees, so they can't talk to each other to get their stories together, to try to increase the value of the information they get from interrogation.

And other than that, there are no secret annexes, no secret interrogation techniques. And again, this is an attempt to bring all of the detention and interrogation techniques in compliance with the Geneva Convention and in compliance with the highest standards of humane treatment -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Jamie, the story has been unfolding, obviously, all throughout the morning. We're trying to read between the lines of what was going on with regard to interrogations or was it going to involve the legal structure of how these detainees were going to be treated.

We also were wondering if GITMO was going to actually be closed down or stay open. So we're sort of learning bit by bit all this new information. You're talking about the interrogation techniques.

And now this is just crossing the wires. ABC News has learned that President Bush will announce that high-value detainees now being held at secret CIA prisons will be transferred to the Department of Defense and granted protections under the 1949 Geneva Conventions. I think the keyword here is "transferred."

And I can't even remember, Jamie, if we have talked about these secret CIA prisons, really, in an in-depth manner over a couple of years or if the Bush administration has really recognized that they exist around the country.

MCINTYRE: Well, we have talked about them. They've been the subject of a great deal of international condemnation. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has responded, in particular, to particular governments who have complained about them. But there's been very little public acknowledgement of the prisons or what goes on in them.

And in fact, when "The Washington Post" reported on these prison, the administration complained bitterly that it could compromise operations around the world, even while they didn't confirm the details of "The Post's" story.

Well, what you're seeing here is there's three parts of this. There's the way prisoners are being treated, the way they're being interrogated, and the way they may eventually be tried. That's the tribunal part of it. And the end of the so-called double standard between the way the way the CIA has to operate and the way the Pentagon has to operate in regarding detainee operations.

It appears that what the administration is going to do is bring them all under a single public standard so that there will be complete transparency about how the U.S. operates.

And as you can imagine, Kyra, there's a great deal of angst behind the scenes, that this is giving away too much to the terrorists that the United States is fighting. That they already read all the manuals, they already know how the U.S. operates, and this simply tells them exactly what they can expect when they're under detention.

But the calculation was made that they're better off doing that, because the information obtained under questionable circumstances is questionable anyway, that the -- that the harm done to the U.S. reputation is worse than that, and that the way to go is to make everything public.

And you can -- as I said, great deal of debate. That's why this took a year to come through. And of course, it was also influenced by that Supreme Court decision.

PHILLIPS: And just real quickly, Jamie, these prisoners, though, the keyword here, "transfer" to the Department of Defense. They're being held in these secret CIA prisons but will be transferred to the Department of Defense. What does that mean, to some special prison, to other prisons here in the U.S.?

MCINTYRE: It could mean they go to Guantanamo Bay, which has been upgraded and is now considered to be sort of a model facility. And by the way, the U.S. government has claimed for some time that it's operating Guantanamo at the highest levels of humane treatment.

So it could mean that, or it could mean that prisons in other places such as Afghanistan, or Iraq, where the -- where they have detention facilities, will be publicly acknowledged. We'll have to see. Probably when President Bush talks later today we'll get more details on that.

PHILLIPS: All right, appreciate it, thanks so much, Jamie McIntyre. We'll continue to talk with you about this developing story.

Now, back in June, Supreme Court Stephen Breyer practically invited the president to do what he's doing today: ask Congress to let him try GITMO defendants his way.

Let's get some insights now from CNN legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin. I guess, Jeffrey, the question is what is that way? How is it going to unfold? How will that be done? Is it a regular trial like we see here in the court system in the U.S.? Is it a special type of tribunal that holds up with the legalities of the court system?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, that's what we'll find out when the president speaks. But we know certain general ideas of how the administration proposes to conduct these trials.

The detainees will have a lawyer. There will be a judge. There will be a jury. A key issue, point of conflict it appears, is will the detainees be able to see all the evidence against them? Because some of the evidence is highly classified, collected by the CIA and other intelligence agencies under very secretive conditions. Are we going to show the accused terrorists that evidence now?

On the one hand, you say, well, of course they have to see it. It can't be a fair trial if the defendant doesn't see the evidence. On the other hand, you say, we can't afford to disclose this kind of sources and methods of intelligence operations to accused terrorists. That's a point of contention.

A big issue here is, one thing the Supreme Court said in its opinion, which you just referred to, in June, is they said the president can't do this system unilaterally. Congress has to pass it.

So whatever the president says today, that's only a first step. Because Congress, which has taken an aggressive role on this subject, is going to have a voice here, as well, and they're going to have to decide whether the president's proposal goes into effect or some version of it or nothing. Because Congress sometimes just doesn't act, and in that case there won't be any trial.

PHILLIPS: And this is just coming across the wire. You were bringing up, will we know more about these detainees, how high-profile are they? And it's saying, now, Jeffrey, that President Bush has decide to transfer 14 key terrorist leaders from these secret CIA prisons to the U.S. military-run prison at Guantanamo Bay, GITMO. That was what Jamie was assuming. It looks like that is, indeed, what will happen, to prepare for eventual trials.

Now this is who they are saying are among the 14, Jeffrey. Khalid Shaikh Mohammed. He was believed to be the No. 3 al Qaeda leader before he was captured in Pakistan in 2003. We remember him.

Also, Ramzi Binalshibh, the alleged would-be September 11 hijacker.

And also Abu Zubaydah, who is believed to be a link between Osama bin Laden and many al Qaeda cells before he was captured in Pakistan in March of 2002.

And what's interesting here is these are what the government calls high value terrorists that are going to be brought back to GITMO for some sort of legal action.

But it still leaves that remaining question what about all the other detainees already at GITMO? Are they as high profile or as dangerous as these prisoners we've just named? There still is sort of a controversy on how those detainees will be treated, as well.

TOOBIN: Right. The administration has identified the people who are at Guantanamo by name but has never put forward exactly what they said that each of them did. There are about 455 current inmates at Guantanamo.

Certainly, the 14 that you referred to are the cream of the crop or the bottom of the barrel, depending on your perspective. I mean, these are the most serious accused terrorists that we have. Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, Ramzi Binalshibh, the best known of them. And they, apparently, will be transferred into the American legal system.

Not clear that they will go to Guantanamo. They may go somewhere else, where they can be held under secure conditions. But what apparently today's proposal will mean is that both the prisoners in Guantanamo and the 14 that you alluded to will have the same standards applied to them. They will all get the same kind of trial, if the president's proposal is approved by Congress.

PHILLIPS: You know, I'm sure -- you're an attorney. I'm sure you've said many statements, strong comments, that those in the courtroom have remembered. I'm curious what you think of this one quote.

And this came from Lieutenant Commander Charlie Swift. You remember him. He represented the alleged driver and bodyguard of Osama bin Laden. It's because of this case we're seeing this fallout and this Supreme Court decision. And he made the quote, "I firmly believe that the way you treat your enemy defines who you are."

TOOBIN: Well, you know this has been something, Kyra, that Americans have been very proud of since, you know, World War II. The Germans in World War II, they were all desperate to surrender to the Americans instead of the Soviets because they knew how we treated prisoners. And that contributed somewhat to our reputation over the years. One of the things that has struck me, especially traveling -- traveling in Europe over the summer, was seeing how much the reputation of the United States had changed because of Guantanamo and because of these prisoner issues.

And yes, the Supreme Court has put up a stop sign to some of the administration's proposals. But this area has really been a defining factor for Americans' reputation in the world for a long time.

And this latest proposal, as Jamie McIntyre was saying earlier, does move the United States much closer towards the international consensus, towards the Geneva Convention, of how prisoners should be treated, if it winds up passing Congress.

PHILLIPS: Jeffrey Toobin, we're waiting on the president's speech. We'll be talking about it more. Thank you so much.

TOOBIN: OK, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right. Let's get to the White House. Our correspondent Kathleen Koch has new -- new details now on the president's plan.

Just interesting, the timing of all this, Kathleen. Fifth anniversary of 9/11, also with regard to the elections. A lot of questions to how this is all coming together at this point in time.

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Certainly, Kyra. And we haven't gotten to the root of the political side of it. Obviously, the Republicans, the Bush administration, have long used the war on terror as one of their selling points. Keep us in office, put us in office, and we will keep you safe. So we're not quite clear on the timing of this yet.

Let's go into some of the details. In speaking with senior administration officials, what CNN has learned is that, first of all, one should not take from this announcement that these 14 high-level prisoners has been transferred to Guantanamo Bay. That does not mean that this secret -- once secret CIA program is over. What officials tell us is that it will continue, because the government simply believes it is much too valuable.

We are -- they are telling us that no one is, however, in CIA custody right now, under the secret program. But they're saying it is simply too valuable in the war on terror not to allow it to go forward.

And what we're told that the president will announce today is not only the transference of these 14 prisoners, the issuance of an Army Field Manual on detention and the questioning of detainees held by the military.

He will announce the continuing consultation with Congress on trying to come up with a framework to go forward and try these roughly 445 detainees already in Guantanamo Bay who are separate and distinct from these al Qaeda, these prisoners who have been held and in the CIA program.

And we also got some interesting information about the people who were trained to interrogate them. And the source told us that the senior administration officials, that there were very careful and hard and fast rules. A lot of training was given to these individual, men and women in the CIA. They all volunteered for this duty. Their average age, we were told, was 43.

So there were very careful rules in place as to how they were treated, these prisoners, how they were handled. And, again, the word from the federal government is, from the administration, is that the program will continue.

Back to you.

PHILLIPS: Kathleen Koch, at the White House, appreciate it.

Stay with us. President Bush's remarks on the global war in terror and plans for detainees at Guantanamo Bay, live this hour, 1:45 Eastern.

Straight ahead, out of control, burning everything in sight. But crews are gaining ground. Coming up, a live update on the firefight in Montana.

Launch delay. What's keeping Space Shuttle Atlantis on the ground this time? We're live from the Kennedy Space Center.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: ... will be leaving one of those secret CIA prisons and be brought back to the United States, actually to Guantanamo Bay, to be put on trial. How that trial will play out, we're still trying to figure that out. We're waiting for the president's speech.

Now khaki shirts and kid's drawings, all part of a huge shrine at Steve Irwin's zoo in Australia. Tears and tributes for the Crocodile Hunter, two days after his shocking death. And for the first time, his family is speaking out. Robert Obadiah from Australia's 7 Network reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERT OBADIAH, 7 NETWORK CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Australia Zoo, a sea of flowers and tributes and emotion, much of it on the faces of blokes in Bush hats and khaki shorts. Blokes like Steve Irwin's father, Bob.

BOB IRWIN, STEVE IRWIN'S FATHER: I'm not sure whether I'm going to be able to get through this.

OBADIAH: It was tough. And just as tough for his daughter-in- law.

IRWIN: Terri's holding up very well, considering. She's extremely concerned for her children, Bindi and Robert, obviously. OBADIAH: Steve, he said, died doing work he loved.

IRWIN: And that's a lot better than getting hit by a bus.

OBADIAH: Bob Irwin has lost a son and a friend.

IRWIN: I'll remember Steve as my best mate ever. I'm a lucky, lucky guy that I've had the opportunity to have a son like Steve.

OBADIAH: And no, they don't want a fancy state funeral for Steve. Why?

IRWIN: Because he's an ordinary guy.

OBADIAH: Steve Irwin's body came home from Cairns last night, a six-hour flight, his friend and manager John Stainton riding alongside the coffin.

JOHN STAINTON, STEVE IRWIN'S FRIEND AND MANAGER: For five hours, I couldn't stop crying. It was, like -- it was devastating.

OBADIAH: A funeral date hasn't been fixed. It's likely to be private.

One of the last pictures of Irwin and daughter Bindi is in the current issue of "Marie Claire", celebrating Father's Day. "He's funny, he's entertaining, and he's always there," Bindi said. "I'm proud to have a dad like that."

JESSICA PARRY, "MARIE CLAIRE" REPORTER: Just that beautiful bond that they had. And I knew that that little girl would be so devastated.

OBADIAH (on camera): In November, Steve Irwin was to be named Australia's tourism ambassador. Ironically, worldwide interest in his death could create a surge of visitors here. And judging by tourists we spoke with today at Low Isles, that's even likely.

(voice-over) Low Isles is 14 kilometers off Port Douglas. It's where Irwin's body was taken before being airlifted to Cairns.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a great place for anyone to grow up in. You can only think that's what Steve would have probably wanted.

OBADIAH: It remains to be seen whether visitors are frightened off.

And Irwin's fans have been warned about scam artists trying to collect donations in his name. Irwin's family says the only legitimate side is WildlifeWarriors.org.au.

IRWIN: Steve will want his work carried on.

OBADIAH: There's a link on our web site: yahoo7.com.au/news.

Robert Obadiah, 7 News. (END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Steve Irwin's manager and close friend says he's been diving for at least a decade and was very used to stingrays. John Stainton made an emotional appearance on CNN's "LARRY KING LIVE" last night. He recalled the moments right after Irwin was stung.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STAINTON: When he got to the back of the boat, I saw it was Steve laying in the rubber ducky. And I can't tell you what happened then. It's a blur from then.

I know that we spent the next 15 minutes or more on CPR, trying to keep him alive. There was a voice there from -- a researcher was on board, saying, "Keep pumping, boys, keep pumping. We know if you can do it, you can keep going, we'll keep him alive. We'll get him help."

In the meantime, we'd rung our emergency number here to get the medevac helicopter in. Unfortunately, the only spot that they could land was an island which was probably 20, 30 minutes steaming away from where we were on the reef. So we had to make a high-tail dash in our boat to get to this island to meet the helicopter.

So it was a pretty desperate time, a horrible event to live through.

LARRY KING, HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": No sign of consciousness at all, John?

STAINTON: Larry, in my heart, I think he was -- I think he was dead when he -- when he was in the rubber ducky. I'm sorry.

KING: It's all right.

STAINTON: I don't think he was alive.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Well, Irwin was shooting a documentary on the ocean's deadliest animals when he was killed. Tonight on "LARRY KING LIVE" the "Vanity Fair" photos, Tom, Katie and Suri Cruise. Larry King's got them all, and he's showing them tonight. CNN's "LARRY KING LIVE", tonight, 9 Eastern.

Cancer used to be a death sentence. But that's changing. A new report finds death rates are down for 11 of the 15 most common cancers in men, including lung, prostate and colon. And 10 of the 15 most common cancers in women, among them breast, colon and brain.

The study uncovered a jump in cases in thyroid cancer, especially in women. The American Cancer Society says fewer people are dying because of earlier detection and better treatment. It also credits a drop in smoking. Dealing with detainees. President Bush outlines a new plan to try terror suspects at Guantanamo Bay. Live coverage from the CNN NEWSROOM, this hour, 1:45 p.m.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: And if you've been watching CNN, we are waiting for the president's speech. President Bush had decided to transfer 14 key terrorist leaders from secret CIA custody to the U.S. military-run prison at Guantanamo Bay to prepare them for eventual trials.

As you know, the controversy of Guantanamo Bay and how these prisoners are being treated, their legal rights, the issues of torture. It's been a constant political back and forth. And now here we are on the fifth anniversary of 9/11, elections around the corner.

CNN's Kathleen Koch at the White House preparing for the president's speech, as well as all of us.

Eager to see, indeed, what he has to say with regard to future of GITMO and these high-profile prisoners.

KOCH: And what we're hearing, Heidi, certainly, is that Guantanamo Bay will still -- Kyra, I'm sorry. I didn't realize we'd switched. My apologies.

What we're hearing is that the president will not be announcing any change in the status of Guantanamo Bay itself. The prison will continue to exist and function and hold not only the 445 prisoners, but also, now, these 14 top terrorist suspects.

Now, these men have all been transferred, already, according to senior administration officials, to Guantanamo Bay, where they are being held now and where, it is our understanding, that they will be afforded some sort of legal process.

And that is what President Bush is going to talking about among other things in this speech this afternoon. He will be announcing the transference of the 14 alleged terrorists, will be -- will be revealing the CIA program, the secret prison program whereby they were held overseas for numerous years.

And he will be talking about how the administration is working with Congress to try to construct some sort of method that these prisoners, all of them, can receive justice.

Now, there is some back and forth up on Capitol Hill. Some level of disagreement, some differences, certainly, with the administration. But both sides believe that can all -- and must all be hashed out -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right, Kathleen Koch, stay with us. President Bush's remarks on the global war on terror live this hour, 1:45 Eastern. We'll continue to check in there at the White House as well.

Well, delay, scrub, call it what you want. Space Shuttle Atlantis is still on the launch pad. And by this time, it was supposed to be heading into orbit. Our technology correspondent Daniel Sieberg is at Kennedy Space Center.

Daniel, what's the latest word?

DANIEL SIEBERG, CNN TECHNOLOGY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Kyra, you can call it a delay or a scrub, basically bad luck, as far as NASA's concerned. Technicians discovered that there was a bad reading on a pump that has to do with coolant on an onboard fuel cell. What that means is basically they're lacking one of the three critical fuel cells that provide power, electricity and water to the shuttle itself.

A live look at Shuttle Atlantis on launch pad 39-B. They would prefer it to be on the way to the international space station to restart the assembly of the International Space Station. That was scheduled to happen at 12:28 this afternoon. Instead, NASA managers meeting at this hour to determine if this glitch with the fuel cell is, indeed, a show-stopper. They have delayed the launch until the earliest, tomorrow at 12:03 in the afternoon.

To give you an idea of what we're talking about, this is a model of the shuttle. The three fuel cells themselves are up here, inside these payload bay doors. They would open up. They're kind of underneath the floorboards beneath the crew here, and they're kind of tough to get to. Also, there's a 17 1/2-ton steel girder, or truss, that's part of the payload going to the International Space Station. That's, in a sense, in the way. So it would be a tough repair to do on the launch pad. We can show you what the fuel cells look like. They're about 260 pounds. They get reused and taken out after each mission. They are critical to it, and they need all three of them to be working in order to launch.

They're also contending with this rapidly shrinking launch window. They have today -- they had today, they will have tomorrow, and then they have Friday. After that, they run into a parking problem issue with the Russians, who are also trying to get up to the International Space Station with their Soyuz craft. So they're going to have to work out that between now and the end of the week. After that it picks up in October, and then possibly December -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right, we'll be watching every move.

Daniel Sieberg, thanks so much.

The other story that we're watching every move is the -- on the ground and in the air, where fire crews are throwing everything they have at this colossal Montana fire. At 180,000 acres, it's the nation's No. 1 firefighting priority.

Joining me on the phone is Kerry O'Connell, who has disaster and emergency services in that area.

Kerry, bring us up to date on the situation right now?

KERRY O'CONNELL, SWEET GRASS COUNTY EMERGENCY SVCS. COORD.: This morning, they updated the acreage to 185,000 acres, and we're up to 45 percent contained.

PHILLIPS: How many firefighters do you have working with this?

O'CONNELL: We have about -- we're getting close to 1,000 people on this fire.

PHILLIPS: Is it enough?

O'CONNELL: At this point, you know, we've got 'em -- you know, we've got 135-mile perimeter around the entire thing. So you know, at this point we're using what we have and we're getting a handle on thing. But with the fire that is this extreme, it's difficult to do that.

PHILLIPS: How many people have you evacuated so far?

O'CONNELL: We evacuated 150 people earlier in the fire. They are all back. And now -- on Sunday, we evacuated 265 people in a different area, because the fire moved into a different area. Those people are still out.

PHILLIPS: Do you think you're going to have to evacuate any more people?

O'CONNELL: We covered a pretty wide area in this evacuation, and we'll be keeping them out until we know it's safe, and we're hoping that'll be this weekend. We'll get them back as soon as we can.

PHILLIPS: Have you lost any homes?

O'CONNELL: We lost three homes in our county. And I understand on the other side of the fire, they lost about 23.

PHILLIPS: So do you think that more structures are at risk, at least, let's say residential structures?

O'CONNELL: Yes, we have several structures at risk, and, boy, those firefighters are just working their hearts out to keep them from being destroyed.

PHILLIPS: Now, how much help are you getting from nearby counties, even states? Are you having a lot of fire crews move in to kind of work around the clock?

O'CONNELL: Yes, they are working around the clock, believe me. Yes, we've got them from all over the state. They come in from all over the country. I mean this is a pretty bad fire season, and they've been working all summer.

PHILLIPS: Do we know how it started?

O'CONNELL: Lightning.

PHILLIPS: Wow.

How bad are these fires compared to previous wildfires? O'CONNELL: There -- this is one of the worst years we have seen. You know, we have people comparing it to '88 and conditions that we saw then.

PHILLIPS: What about environmentally -- when you've got a fire this big, what are the environmental concerns?

O'CONNELL: Well, there's always, you know, wildlife and livestock concerns. You know, we have had some wildlife and livestock deaths in this fire. We're always concerned after the fire with, you know, runoff, some flooding problems, that sort of thing that will come in later. I mean, it's -- the smoke is a huge issue for all of our residents. It's covered a very wide area around here.

PHILLIPS: Kerry O'Connell, who heads disaster and emergency services there in the Montana area where they're working that Montana fire. Appreciate it, Kerry. We'll stay in touch with you.

O'CONNELL: Thank you.

(BUSINESS HEADLINES)

PHILLIPS: Well, straight ahead, dealing with detainees. President Bush outlines a new plan to try terror suspects at Gitmo. Live coverage from the CNN NEWSROOM this hour, 1:45 p.m.

Plus, Democrats versus Donald Rumsfeld -- a no-confidence measure in the works in the state. We'll get the story from CNN NEWSROOM straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: The rule of law in the war on terror. President Bush tries to rework his idea for military tribunals for terror suspects at Guantanamo Bay.

We're about two minutes away from his live speech. We're on the story from all the angles. Our Kathleen Koch is at the White House, and senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin is in New York.

Kathleen, let's start with you.

KOCH: The president will announce that 14 key terrorist leaders who have been held in secret CIA prisons overseas have been transferred to the Guantanamo Bay Prison, where they, along with the other 445 detainees there, will be prepared to force some sort of justice, some sort of trial. That's another thing that the president will talk about, that he's been working very hard -- both the administration and lawmakers up on Capitol Hill -- to craft some kind of trial mechanism.

As you'll recall back in June, the Supreme Court said that the military commissions that the president had, the administration to come up with, to try Guantanamo Bay detainees, that it was illegal. So the president, the administration, lawmakers, have been working very hard on this. And we're expected to hear some announcement from him in just a couple of minutes about what they've come up with -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Jeffrey, how expensive are these tribunals? Who pays for them? And is this not just the 14 high profile terror suspects coming to Guantanamo Bay, but the 400 plus detainees who are there?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SR. LEGAL ANALYST: It's enormously expensive. And Uncle Sam pays for everything. Pays for the prosecution, pays for the defense. Although if any of these detainees can afford their own lawyers they're allowed to get their own lawyers.

But -- and it's not just the trials, it's assembling the evidence. This is an enormous undertaking. The evidence collection has gone on since 9/11. It's involved all parts of the government. So I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that this undertaking, when it starts, will cost tens, if not hundreds, of millions of dollars.

PHILLIPS: If, indeed, the legal process goes through in one way or another -- whether it's same type of tribunal or a court system like we see here in the U.S. -- Jeffrey, could we finally, for the first time, hear from these various detainees and hear from their mouths, from attorneys' mouths, what exactly they did, are they continuing to give the United States strong intel on terrorism, and find out, really, how bad are they?

TOOBIN: Absolutely. I mean, this will be a tremendous historical example of what happened. I mean, we will learn in these trials, if and when they take place, what did Khalid Sheikh Mohammed really do in 9/11? What did Ramzi Bin al-Shibh do? These people have often been described as the masterminds. But the government has never come forward and said, here are the facts of what they did. They will have the chance to say, yes, I did it, and I'm proud of it, or no, I didn't do it, you got the wrong guy. I mean, the historical record very much will be filled in by the trials certainly of these top people and all these people.

PHILLIPS: Jeffrey.

TOOBIN: There we go. Let's just...

PHILLIPS: Here -- listen to the president. We'll talk again.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Thank you. Thanks for the warm welcome. Welcome to the White House.

Mr. Vice President, Secretary Rice, Attorney General Gonzales, Ambassador Negroponte, General Hayden, members of the United States Congress, families who lost loved ones in the terrorist attacks on our nation, my fellow citizens, thanks for coming.

On the morning of September the 11th, 2001, our nation awoke to a nightmare attack. Nineteen men armed with box cutters took control of airplanes and turned them into missiles. They used them to kill nearly 3,000 innocent people.

We watched the twin towers collapse before our eyes, and it became instantly clear that we'd entered a new world and a dangerous new war.

The attacks of September the 11th horrified our nation. And amid the grief came new fears and urgent questions. Who had attacked us? What did they want? And what else were they planning?

Americans saw the destruction the terrorists had caused in New York and Washington and Pennsylvania, and they wondered if there were other terrorist cells in our midst poised to strike. They wondered if there was a second wave of attacks still to come.

With the twin towers and the Pentagon still smoldering, our country on edge, and a stream of intelligence coming in about potential new attacks, my administration faced immediate challenges. We had to respond to the attack on our country. We had to wage an unprecedented war against an enemy unlike any we had fought before. We had to find the terrorists hiding in America and across the world before they were able to strike our country again.

So in the early days and weeks after 9/11, I directed our government's senior national security officials to do everything in their power, within our laws, to prevent another attack.

Nearly five years have passed since those initial days of shock and sadness.

And we are thankful that the terrorists have not succeeded in launching another attack on our soil.

This is not for the lack of desire or determination on the part of the enemy. As the recently foiled plot in London shows, the terrorists are still active, and they are still trying to strike America and they are still trying to kill our people.

One reason the terrorists have not succeeded is because of the hard work of thousands of dedicated men and women in our government who have toiled day and night, along with our allies, to stop the enemy from carrying out their plans.

And we are grateful for these hardworking citizens of ours.

Another reason the terrorists have not succeeded is because our government has changed its policies and given our military, intelligence and law enforcement personnel the tools they need to fight this enemy and protect our people and preserve our freedoms.

The terrorists who declared war on America represent no nation. They defend no territory. And they wear no uniform. They do not mass armies on borders or flotillas of warships on the high seas.

They operate in the shadows of society. They send small teams of operatives to infiltrate free nations. They live quietly among their victims. They conspire in secret. And then they strike without warning.

And in this new war, the most important source of information on where the terrorists are hiding and what they are planning is the terrorists themselves.

Captured terrorists have unique knowledge about how terrorist networks operate. They have knowledge of where their operatives are deployed and knowledge about what plots are under way.

This intelligence -- this is intelligence that cannot be found any other place. And our security depends on getting this kind of information.

To win the war on terror, we must be able to detain, question and, when appropriate, prosecute terrorists captured here in America and on the battlefields around the world.

After the 9/11 attacks, our coalition launched operations across the world to remove terrorist safehavens and capture or kill terrorist operatives and leaders.

Working with our allies, we've captured and detained thousands of terrorists and enemy fighters in Afghanistan, in Iraq and other fronts of this war on terror.

These enemy -- these are enemy combatants who are waging war on our nation. We have a right under the laws of war, and we have an obligation to the American people, to detain these enemies and stop them from rejoining the battle.

Most of the enemy combatants we capture are held in Afghanistan or in Iraq where they're questioned by our military personnel. Many are released after questioning or turned over to local authorities if we determine that they do not pose a continuing threat and no longer have significant intelligence value.

Others remain in American custody near the battlefield, to ensure that they don't return to the fight.

In some cases, we determined that individuals we have captured pose a significant threat or may have intelligence that we and our allies need to have to prevent new attacks.

Many are Al Qaeda operatives or Taliban fighters trying to conceal their identities. And they withhold information that could save American lives.

In these cases, it has been necessary to move these individuals to an environment where they can be held secretly, questioned by experts and, when appropriate, prosecuted for terrorist acts.

Some of these individuals are taken to the United States naval base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

It's important for Americans and others across the world to understand the kind of people held at Guantanamo. These aren't common criminals or bystanders accidentally swept up on the battlefield.

We have in place a rigorous process to ensure those held at Guantanamo Bay belong at Guantanamo. Those held at Guantanamo include suspected bombmakers, terrorist trainers, recruiters and facilitators, and potential suicide bombers. They are in our custody so that they cannot murder our people.

One detainee held at Guantanamo told a questioner questioning -- he said this: "I'll never forget your face. I will kill you, your brother, your mother and your sisters."

In addition to the terrorists held at Guantanamo, a small number of suspected terrorist leaders and operatives captured during the war have been held and questioned outside the United States, in a separate program operated by the Central Intelligence Agency.

This group includes individuals believed to be the key architects of the September the 11th attacks and attacks on the USS Cole; an operative involved in the bombings of our embassies in Kenya and Tanzania; and individuals involved in other attacks that have taken the lives of innocent civilians across the world.

These are dangerous men, with unparalleled knowledge about terrorist networks and their plans of new attacks. The security of our nation and the lives of our citizens depend on our ability to learn what these terrorists know.

Many specifics of this program, including where these detainees have been held and the details of their confinement, cannot be divulged. Doing so would provide our enemies with information they could use to take retribution against our allies and harm our country.

I can say that questioning the detainees in this program has given us information that has saved innocent lives by helping us stop new attacks, here in the United States and across the world.

Today I'm going to share with you some of the examples provided by our intelligence community of how this program has saved lives, why it remains vital to the security of the United States and our friends and allies, and why it deserves the support of the United States Congress and the American people.

Within months of September 11, 2001, we captured a man named Abu Zubaydah. We believed that Zubaydah was a senior terrorist leader and a trusted associate of Osama bin Laden.

Our intelligence community believes he had run a terrorist camp in Afghanistan where some of the 9/11 hijackers trained and that he helped smuggle Al Qaeda leaders out of Afghanistan after coalition forces arrived to liberate that country.

Zubaydah was severely wounded during the firefight that brought him into custody. And he survived only because of the medical care arranged by the CIA.

After he recovered, Zubaydah was defiant and evasive. He declared his hatred of America.

During questioning, he, at first, disclosed what he thought was nominal information and then stopped all cooperation. Well, in fact, the nominal information he gave us turned out to be quite important.

For example, Zubaydah disclosed Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, or KSM, was the mastermind behind the 9/11 attacks and used the alias Mukhtar. This was a vital piece of the puzzle that helped our intelligence community pursue KSM.

Zubaydah also provided information that helped stop a terrorist attack being planned for inside the United States, an attack about which we had no previous information.

Zubaydah told us that Al Qaeda operatives were planning to launch an attack in the United States and provided physical descriptions of the operatives and information on their general location.

Based on the information he provided, the operatives were detained; one, while traveling to the United States.

We knew that Zubaydah had more information that could save innocent lives. But he stopped talking.

As his questioning proceeded, it became clear that he had received training on how to resist interrogation. And so, the CIA used an alternative set of procedures.

These procedures were designed to be safe, to comply with our laws, our Constitution and our treaty obligations. The Department of Justice reviewed the authorized methods extensively, and determined them to be lawful.

I cannot describe the specific methods used. I think you understand why. If I did, it would help the terrorists learn how to resist questioning and to keep information from us that we need to prevent new attacks on our country.

But I can say the procedures were tough and they were safe and lawful and necessary.

Zubaydah was questioned using these procedures, and soon he began to provide information on key Al Qaeda operatives, including information that helped us find and capture more of those responsible for the attacks on September the 11th.

For example, Zubaydah identified one of KSM's accomplices in the 9/11 attacks, a terrorist named Ramzi Binalshibh. The information Zubaydah provided helped lead to the capture of Binalshibh. And together these two terrorists provided information that helped in the planning and execution of the operation that captured Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.

Once in our custody, KSM was questioned by the CIA using these procedures. And he soon provided information that helped us stop another planned attack on the United States. During questioning, KSM told us about another Al Qaeda operative he knew was in CIA custody, a terrorist named Majid Khan (ph). KSM revealed that Khan (ph) had been told to deliver $50,000 to individuals working for a suspected terrorist leader named Hambali, the leader of Al Qaeda's Southeast Asia affiliate known as J.I.

CIA officers confronted Khan (ph) with this information. Khan (ph) confirmed that the money had been delivered to an operative named Zubeir (ph) and provided both a physical description and contact number for this operative.

Based on that information, Zubeir (ph) was captured in June of 2003. And he soon provided information that help lead to the capture of Hambali.

After Hambali's arrest, KSM was questioned again. He identified Hambali's brother as the leader of a J.I. cell and Hambali's conduit for communications with Al Qaeda.

Hambali's brother was soon captured in Pakistan and, in turn, led us to a cell of 17 Southeast Asian J.I. operatives.

When confronted with the news that his terror cell had been broken up, Hambali admitted that the operatives were being groomed at KSM's request for attacks inside the United States, probably using airplanes.

During questioning, KSM also provided many details of other plots to kill innocent Americans. For example, he described the design of planned attacks on buildings inside the United States, and how operatives were directed to carry them out. He told us the operatives had been instructed to ensure that the explosives went off at a point that was high enough to prevent the people trapped above from escaping out the windows.

KSM also provided vital information on Al Qaeda's efforts to obtain biological weapons. During questioning, KSM admitted that he had met three individuals involved in Al Qaeda's efforts to produce anthrax, a deadly biological agent, and he identified one of the individuals as a terrorist named Yazid (ph).

KSM apparently believed we already had this information, because Yazid (ph) had been captured and taken into foreign custody before KSM's arrest.

In fact, we did not know about Yazid's (ph) role in Al Qaeda's anthrax program. Information from Yazid (ph) then helped lead to the capture of his two principal assistants in the anthrax program.

Without the information provided by KSM and Yazid (ph), we might not have uncovered this Al Qaeda biological weapons program or stopped this Al Qaeda cell from developing anthrax for attacks against the United States.

These are some of the plots that have been stopped because of the information of this vital program.

Terrorists held in CIA custody have also provided information that helped stop a planned strike on U.S. Marines at Camp Lemonier in Djibouti. They were going to use an explosive-laden water tanker. They helped stop a planned attack on the U.S. consulate in Karachi using car bombs and motorcycle bombs. And they helped stop a plot to hijack passenger planes and fly them into Heathrow or the Canary Wharf in London.

We're getting information vital necessary to do our jobs, and that's to protect the American people and our allies.

Information from the terrorists in this program has helped us to identify individuals that Al Qaeda deemed suitable for Western operations, many of whom we had never heard about before. They include terrorists who were sent to case targets inside the United States, including financial buildings in major cities on the East Coast.

Information from terrorists in CIA custody has played a role in the capture or questioning of nearly every senior Al Qaeda member or associate detained by the U.S. and its allies since this program began.

By providing everything from initial leads to photo identifications to precise locations of where terrorists were hiding, this program has helped us to take potential mass murderers off the streets before they were able to kill.

This program has also played a critical role in helping us understand the enemy we face in this war. Terrorists in this program have painted a picture of Al Qaeda's structure and financing and communications and logistics. They have identified Al Qaeda's travel routes and safe havens, and explained how Al Qaeda's senior leadership communicates with its operatives in places like Iraq.

They provided information that allows us -- that has allowed us to make sense of documents and computer records that we have seized in terrorists raids. They have identified voices and recordings of intercepted calls and helped us understand the meaning of potentially critical terrorist communications.

And information we get from these detainees is corroborated by intelligence, and we've received -- that we have received from other sources.

And together this intelligence is helping us connect the dots and stop attacks before they occur. Information from the terrorist (inaudible) program helped unravel plots and terrorist cells in Europe and in other place. It's helped our allies protect their people from deadly enemies.

This program has been and remains one of the most vital tools in our war against the terrorists. It is invaluable to America and to our allies.

Were it not for this program, our intelligence community believes that Al Qaeda and its allies would have succeeded in launching another attack against the American homeland.

By giving us information about terrorist plans we could not get anywhere else, this program has saved innocent lives.

This program has been subject to multiple legal reviews by the Department of Justice and CIA lawyers. They determined it complied with our laws.

This program has received strict oversight by the CIA's inspector general. A small number of key leaders from both political parties on Capitol Hill were briefed about this program. All those involved in the questioning of the terrorists are carefully chosen and they're screened from a pool of experienced CIA officers.

Those selected to conduct the most sensitive questioning have to complete more than 250 additional hours of specialized training before they are allowed to have contact with a captured terrorist.

I want to be absolutely clear with our people and the world:The United States does not torture. It's against our laws and it's against our values. I have not authorized it and I will not authorize it.

Last year my administration worked with Senator John McCain and I signed into law the Detainee Treatment Act, which established the legal standards for treatment of detainees wherever they are held.

I support this act. And, as we implement this law, our government will continue to use every lawful method to obtain intelligence that can protect innocent people and stop another attack like the one we experienced on September 11, 2001.

The CIA program has detained only a limited number of terrorists at any given time. And once we have determined that the terrorists held by the CIA have little or no additional intelligence value, many of them have been returned to their home countries for prosecution or detention by their governments.

Others have been accused of terrible crimes against the American people. And we have a duty to bring those responsible for these crimes to justice.

So we intend to prosecute these men, as appropriate, for their crimes.

Soon after the war on terror began, I authorized a system of military commissions to try foreign terrorists accused of war crimes.

Military commissions have been used by presidents from George Washington to Franklin Roosevelt to prosecute war criminals, because the rules for trying enemy combatants in a time of conflict must be different from those for trying common criminals or members of our own military.

One of the first suspected terrorists to be put on trial by military commission was one of Osama bin Laden's bodyguards, a man named Hamdan. His lawyers challenged the legality of the military commission system. It took more than two years for this case to make its way through the courts. The Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit upheld the military commissions we had designed but, this past June, the Supreme Court overturned that decision.

The Supreme Court determined that military commissions are an appropriate venue for trying terrorists, but ruled that military commission needed to be explicitly authorized by the United States Congress.

So today I'm sending Congress legislation to specifically authorize the creation of military commissions to try terrorists for war crimes.

My administration has been working with members of both parties in the House and Senate on this legislation. We put forward a bill that ensures these commissions are established in a way that protects our national security and ensures a full and fair trial for those accused.

The procedures in the bill I am sending to Congress today reflect the reality that we are a nation at war and that is it is essential for us to use all reliable evidence to bring these people to justice.

We're now approaching the five-year anniversary of the 9/11 attacks. And the families of those murdered that day have waited patiently for justice. Some of the families are with us today. They should have to wait no longer.

So I'm announcing today that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, Abu Zubaydah, Ramzi Binalshibh and 11 other terrorists in CIA custody have been transferred to the United States naval base at Guantanamo Bay.

(APPLAUSE)

They are being held in the custody of the Department of Defense. As soon as Congress acts to authorize the military commissions I have proposed, the men our intelligence officials believe orchestrated the deaths of nearly 3,000 Americans on September the 11th, 2001, can face justice.

(APPLAUSE)

We will also seek to prosecute those believed to be responsible for the attack on the USS Cole and an operative believed to be involved in the bombings of the American embassies in Kenya and Tanzania.

With these prosecutions, we will send a clear message to those who kill Americans: "No longer (sic) how long it takes, we will find you and we will bring you to justice."

(APPLAUSE)

These men will be held in a high-security facility at Guantanamo. The International Committee of the Red Cross is being advised of their detention and will have the opportunity to meet with them.

Those charged with crimes will be given access to attorneys who will help them prepare their defense, and they will be presumed innocent.

While at Guantanamo, they will have access to the same food, clothing, medical care and opportunities for worship as other detainees. They will be questioned subject to the new U.S. Army Field Manual which the Department of Defense is issuing today. And they will continue to be treated with the humanity that they denied others.

As we move forward with the prosecutions, we will continue to urge nations across the world to take back their nationals at Guantanamo who will not be prosecuted by our military commissions.

America has no interest in being the world's jailer.

But one of the reasons we have not been able to close Guantanamo is that many countries have refused to take back their nationals held at the facility. Other countries have not provided adequate assurances that their nationals will not be mistreated or they will not return to the battlefield, as more than a dozen people released from Guantanamo already have.

We will continue working to transfer individuals held at Guantanamo and ask other countries to work with us in this process. And we will move toward the day when we can eventually close the detention facility at Guantanamo Bay.

I know American have heard conflicting information about Guantanamo. Let me give you some facts.

Of the thousands of terrorists captured across the world, only about 770 have ever been sent to Guantanamo. Of these, about 315 have been returned to other countries so far and about 455 remain in our custody.

They are provided the same quality of medical care as the American servicemembers who guard them.

The International Committee of the Red Cross had the opportunity to meet privately with all who are held there. The facility has been visited by government officials from more than 30 countries and delegations from international organizations as well.

After the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe came to visit, one of its delegation members called Guantanamo a model prison where people are treated better than in prisons in his own country.

Our troops can take great pride in the work they do at Guantanamo Bay, and so can the American people.

As we prosecute suspected terrorist leaders and operatives who have now been transferred to Guantanamo, we'll continue searching for those who have stepped forward to take their places. This nation is going to stay on the offense to protect the American people. We will continue to bring the world's most dangerous terrorists to justice, and we will continue working to collect the vital intelligence we need to protect our country.

The current transfers mean that there are now no terrorists in the CIA program. But as more high-ranking terrorists are captured, the need to obtain intelligence from them will remain critical. And having a CIA program for questioning terrorists will continue to be crucial to getting life-saving information.

Some ask: Why are you acknowledging this program now?

There are two reasons why I'm making these limited disclosures today.

First, we have largely completed our questioning of the men and, to start the process for bringing them to trial, we must bring them into the open.

Second, the Supreme Court's recent decision has impaired our ability to prosecute terrorists through military commissions and has put in question the future of the CIA program.

In its ruling on military commissions, the court determined that a provision of the Geneva Convention -- it's known as Common Article 3 -- applies to our war with Al Qaeda.

This article includes provisions that prohibit outrages upon personal dignity and humiliating and degrading treatment.

The problem is that these and other provisions of Common Article 3 are vague and undefined.

And each could be interpreted in different ways by American or foreign judges. And some believe our military and intelligence personnel involved in capturing terrorists and questioning terrorists could now be at risk of prosecution under the War Crimes Act; simply for doing their jobs in a thorough and professional way.

This is unacceptable. Our military and intelligence personnel go face to face with the world's most dangerous men every day. They have risked their lives to capture some of the most brutal terrorists on earth. And they have worked day and night to find out what the terrorists know so we can stop new attacks.

America owes our brave men and women some things in return. We owe them our thanks for saving lives and keeping America safe. And we owe them clear rules so they can continue to do their jobs and protect our people.

So today I'm asking Congress to pass legislation that will clarify the rules for our personnel fighting the war on terror.

First, I am asking Congress to list the specific recognizable offenses that would be considered crimes under the War Crimes Act so our personnel can know clearly what is prohibited in the handling of terrorist enemies.

Second, I'm asking that Congress make explicit that by following the standards of the Detainee Treatment Act our personnel are fulfilling America's obligations under Common Article III of the Geneva Conventions.

Third, I'm asking that Congress make it clear that captured terrorists cannot use the Geneva Conventions as a basis to sue our personnel in courts -- in U.S. courts.

The men and women who protect us should not have to fear lawsuits filed by terrorists because they are doing their jobs.

The need for this legislation is urgent. We need to ensure that those questioning terrorists can continue to do everything within the limits of the law to get information that can save American lives.

My administration will continue to work with the Congress to get this legislation enacted, but time is of the essence. Congress is in session just for a few more weeks and passing this legislation ought to be the top priority.

(APPLAUSE)

As we work with Congress to pass a good bill, we will also consult with congressional leaders on how to ensure that the CIA program goes forward in a way that follows the law, that meets the national security needs of our country and protects the brave men and women we asked to obtain information that will save innocent lives.

For the sake of our security, Congress needs to act and update our laws to meet the threats of this new era, and I know they will.

We're engaged in a global struggle, and the entire civilized world has a stake in its outcome. America is a nation of law. And as I work with Congress to strengthen and clarify our laws here at home, I will continue to work with members of the international community who have been our partners in this struggle.

I've spoken with leaders of foreign governments and worked with them to address their concerns about Guantanamo and our detention policies. I'll continue to work with the international community to construct a common foundation to defend our nations and protect our freedoms.

Free nations have faced new enemies and adjusted to new threats before and we have prevailed.

Like the struggles of the last century, today's war on terror is, above all, a struggle for freedom and liberty. The adversaries are different, but the stakes in this war are the same.

We're fighting for our way of life and our ability to live in freedom. We're fighting for the cause of humanity against those who seek to impose the darkness of tyranny and terror upon the entire world. And we're fighting for a peaceful future for our children and our grandchildren.

May god bless you all.

(APPLAUSE)

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