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President Bush Unveils Plans to Try Guantanamo Bay Prisoners; Polygamist Leader Makes First Court Appearance; Iranian President Seeks to Purge Liberal Professors From Universities
Aired September 06, 2006 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Kyra Phillips at the CNN World Headquarters in Atlanta.
Secret prisons, terror suspects, interrogation techniques -- should all prisoners be treated the same way?
Wildfires raging in Montana -- hundreds of people flee, homes up in flames. Will the weather help or hurt?
His dad said he was just an ordinary bloke. Steve Irwin's father brags about his wildfire warrior, but declines some high honors -- emotional tributes from around the world from the CNN NEWSROOM.
New rules for terror suspects, how they're treated, tried and interrogated, announced today by President Bush -- in a speech you may have seen live here on CNN, the president also dropped a bombshell about terror suspects in U.S. custody overseas.
Let's get all the details now from Kathleen Koch. She's at the White House -- Kathleen.
KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, that was indeed announcement number one from the president this afternoon, that some 14 terrorists who have long been held at secret CIA prisons overseas have now been transferred to the U.S. prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba -- among them, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, al Qaeda number three, Ramzi Bin -- Ramzi Binalshibh, an alleged would-be 9/11 hijacker, also Abu Zubaydah. He is believed to be linked -- have been a link between Osama bin Laden and many al Qaeda cells.
President Bush said that these men, all 14 men, would be tried. And the president said he was sending to Capitol Hill legislation to set up commissions to bring not only these 14 men, but all 445 prisoners at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, to justice.
And President Bush defended the secret CIA program and the tough interrogations that were used to extract information from the terrorists.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This program has been and remains one of the most vital tools in our war against the terrorists. It is invaluable to America and to our allies. Were it not for this program, our intelligence community believes that al Qaeda and its allies would have succeeded in launching another attack against the American homeland.
By giving us information about terrorist plans we could not get anywhere else, this program has saved innocent lives. This program has been subject to multiple legal reviews by the Department of Justice and CIA lawyers. They have determined it complied with our laws.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KOCH: Now, President Bush said he has transferred these 14 prisoners to Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, and he's revealing the program now for a couple reasons.
First of all, he said that the questioning of the men has concluded. Obviously, with them being captured in 2002, 2003, after a number of years, their intelligence value does diminish. And the second reason was that the president said that the June decision by the Supreme Court that struck down the legality of the military tribunals the Pentagon had hoped to use to try the prisoners at Gitmo, that that decision actually put in jeopardy the CIA officers who were questioning these top-level terrorists.
The president said that they could possibly, because of their ruling, face trial for war crimes. So, the president is also sending to Congress today requests that they specifically delineate exactly what type of interrogation procedures are acceptable under the Geneva Conventions -- back to you.
PHILLIPS: All right, Kathleen, so much -- thank you so much.
And coming up straight ahead, we want to make sure we tell you about our interview with Lieutenant Commander Charlie Swift. It was his case that actually led to the Supreme Court decision that made an impact on what the president said today. We are going to talk to him coming up this hour.
Now he gets a day in court without leaving Purgatory. Polygamist leader Warren Jeffs is making his initial court appearance via video hookup from Purgatory Correctional Facility near Saint George, Utah.
CNN's Peter Viles say it's all about security with this high- profile prisoner.
PETER VILES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Boy, it sure is, Kyra -- and this court appearance, as you say, by video hookup, largely a procedural event. This is the time when the judge essentially looks the prisoner in the eye via video hookup and says, you know you're being charged with a crime. You know you need a lawyer. You know these are your rights.
It's very simple. We don't expect anything to be decided today, expect maybe some things about the schedule of the case. But the larger issue that we have seen here today is the extraordinary level of security outside this courthouse. There have been SWAT teams in the parking lot. We talked to police. They said they have never, ever used a SWAT team to patrol or protect a courthouse before. They're doing it today.
And this courthouse is wedged up against a cliff that's maybe 150 high. If you look at the top of that cliff, you will see, police officers and law enforcement have literally taken up positions on this cliff, looking down on the courthouse, so that, if some sort of crisis were to break out here, some sort of crisis involving the followers of Warren Jeffs, they would be in position to respond to it.
But Warren Jeffs isn't even physically going to be here today, which begs the question which we put to police, why the extraordinary level of security? Here's what police are saying this morning about why this is happening.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SERGEANT CRAIG HARDING, SAINT GEORGE, UTAH, POLICE DEPARTMENT: We don't know what detractors he has. We don't know what supporters he has. But, if we close our minds to the fact that something could happen, we will get caught with our pants down if something does happen.
So, we're going to pretend like this could be the worst-case scenario that ever occurred. If everything goes well, we will go home today and nothing will happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VILES: The sheriff here said something very similar yesterday, although with slightly more charged language.
He said -- explaining the extraordinary security around in this case, he said, remember, we're dealing with religious extremists, and we don't know how they are going to respond to our legal process.
That said, we haven't seen any great show of force here by the followers. And the sheriff himself said yesterday they're not known to be prone to violence. But, that said, you're talking about thousands and thousands of people, and you're talking about their spiritual, religious and political leader.
And the FBI had been saying about this guy, Kyra, that they thought he might be armed and dangerous. So, the security here is really extraordinary for this court appearance. The court appearance could begin any minute. Our Gary Tuchman is inside. As soon as it's over, he will come out and he will tell us what has happened in there -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: And we will talk to Gary.
But have any supporters shown up, any of the wives, relatives? Anybody?
VILES: Well, you know, it's not apparent to us that any of them have. The women in those communities tend to dress differently, very modestly, if you will, covering all of their skin. We haven't seen anybody dressed like that. It's possible there are some supporters in there. But, you know, he was in court himself, physically, in Las Vegas last week. And maybe one or two supporters showed up. So, we're not expecting a large turnout, even though those communities are only about 25 miles from this courthouse -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Peter Viles, appreciate it. Thanks so much.
Well, the search for Buck Phillips -- police in western New York state are turning to the public for help. They're pleading for word about the jail escapee who is now suspected of killing a state trooper and wounding two others. Police believe he's hiding in the woods.
A report of a suspicious person in Hamburg, New York, sparked a big search. Authorities also are looking into a pair of attempted break-ins in nearby Pennsylvania.
Khaki shirts and kids' drawings, all part of a huge shrine at Steve Irwin's zoo in Australia, tears and tributes for the crocodile hunter two days after his shocking death.
And, for the first time, his family is speaking out.
Robert Ovadia from Australia's 7 Network reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERT OVADIA, 7 NETWORK CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Australia Zoo, a sea of flowers and tributes and emotion, much of it on the faces of blokes in bush hats and khaki shorts, blokes like Steve Irwin's father, Bob.
BOB IRWIN, STEVE IRWIN'S FATHER: I'm not sure whether I'm going to be able to get through this.
OVADIA: It was tough, and just as tough for his daughter-in- law.
IRWIN: Terri's holding up very well, considering. She's extremely concerned for her children, Bindi and Robert, obviously.
OVADIA: Steve, he said, died doing work he loved.
IRWIN: And that's a lot better than getting hit by a bus.
OVADIA: Bob Irwin has lost a son and a friend.
IRWIN: Well, I will -- I will remember Steve as my best mate ever. I'm a lucky, lucky guy that I have had the opportunity to have a son like Steve.
OVADIA: And, no, they don't want a fancy state funeral for Steve. Why?
IRWIN: Because he's an ordinary guy. OVADIA: Steve Irwin's body came home from Cairns last night, a six-hour flight -- his friend and manager John Stainton riding alongside the coffin.
JOHN STAINTON, STEVE IRWIN'S FRIEND AND MANAGER: For five hours, I couldn't stop crying. It was like -- it was devastating.
OVADIA: A funeral date hasn't been fixed. It's likely to be private.
One of the last pictures of Irwin and daughter, Bindi, is in the current issue of "Marie Claire," celebrating Father's Day. "He's funny. He's entertaining. And he's always there," Bindi said. "I'm proud to have a dad like that."
JESSICA PARRY, "MARIE CLAIRE": Just that beautiful bond that they had -- and I knew that that little girl would be so devastated.
OVADIA (on camera): In November, Steve Irwin was to be named Australia's tourism ambassador. Ironically, worldwide interest in his death could create a surge of visitors here. And judging by tourists we spoke with today at Low Isles, that's even likely.
(voice-over): Low Isles is 14 kilometers off Port Douglas. It's where Irwin's body was taken before, being airlifted to Cairns.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a great place for anyone to grow up in. You can only think that's what Steve would have probably wanted.
OVADIA: It remains to be seen whether visitors are frightened off.
And Irwin's fans have been warned about scam artists trying to collect donations in his name. Irwin's family says, the only legitimate site is www.wildlifewarriors.org.au.
IRWIN: Steve will want his work carried on.
OVADIA: There's a link on our Web site, yahoo7.com.au/news.
Robert Ovadia, 7 News.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: Let's get straight back to Saint George, Utah, where polygamist Warren Jeffs had a hearing today.
Our Gary Tuchman was in the courtroom.
Peter Viles just on the outside.
What do we know about these charges that he faces? What happened?
VILES: Kyra, let me get straight to Gary Tuchman on that, who was in the courtroom, seeing the video image of Warren Jeffs. Gary, tell us the headline from what happened in court.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Peter, it just ended a couple of minutes ago.
Warren Jeffs sat there in his jail cell. He was very stoic. He was very calm. Nothing major happened, but we have learned a little bit about the process that will take place in this case. The judge said he will hold a preliminary hearing on September 19. The preliminary hearing is very important for the prosecution, because, during the preliminary hearing, the prosecution has to make it clear to the judge that they have probable cause to continue holding Warren Jeffs and to have a trial for Warren Jeffs.
It's not proof beyond a reasonable doubt, just enough to show the judge that they should keep Warren Jeffs in jail.
But another important thing about the hearing on September 19, it will also be a bond hearing. Right now, Warren Jeffs, this 50-year- old leader of this fundamental Mormon church about 25 miles to the south of here, in Hildale, Utah, and Colorado City, Arizona, is being held without bond.
It's expected his attorney will ask for the right for Warren Jeffs to be released on bond. Now, this was a very important point brought up during the hearing. We were told that he has an attorney. His attorney is a man named Richard Wright, who is in Las Vegas, Nevada.
Warren Jeffs, during this hearing, just now, on the video camera, told the judge: Yes, I have an attorney in Nevada, but I want to have an attorney in the state of Utah who's familiar with Utah law.
He didn't say familiar with Utah law, in those words.
VILES: Sure.
TUCHMAN: But that was the implication.
VILES: Right.
TUCHMAN: And, therefore, I want to take my attorney, talk with -- about it with him for a week, and get a new attorney here in the state of Utah.
So, the attorney who will represent Warren Jeffs...
VILES: Right.
TUCHMAN: ... in a trial, apparently, he doesn't have just yet.
VILES: So, this would have been more from Warren Jeffs than we had heard from him previously. What can you tell us about his demeanor? He has been described as meek and passive and obedient. What did you see in there today about his demeanor? TUCHMAN: I would say he was still meek and passive and obedient. He was very polite. He was asked by the judge, can you hear me? He said, yes. He says, do you -- is your name being spelled correctly, J-E-F-F-S? He said, correct.
And then he talked about his lawyer, and he says, yes, I want to talk with my lawyer. We need a week to have a new attorney.
So, what the judge decided was not only will they have this preliminary hearing on the 19th. They are going to have a status conference this Monday, just to discuss procedures down the road. So, those are the next two hearings...
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIPS: Peter and Gary, stay with us.
We want to get straight to the prosecutors that are talking right now.
Let's all listen in.
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
BROCK BELNAP, WASHINGTON COUNTY, UTAH, ATTORNEY: ... and informed of the charges against him.
The court set a review hearing for next week, September 11, at 8:30 in the morning. That will be via video as well. The purpose of that review hearing will be to find out about the status of counsel.
The court also set a preliminary hearing date for the 19th of September. Whether that hearing actually goes forth or not will depend on Mr. Jeffs and his attorneys. And we will be prepared to go forward with our case, as soon as it is scheduled.
Thanks. I will take a few questions, if there are any.
(CROSSTALK)
BELNAP: I -- I have no idea what the likelihood of a continuance is. It's totally up to Mr. Jeffs and his attorneys. Our office will be cooperative with regard to scheduling.
QUESTION: Does that mean, if he wants it, he will get it?
BELNAP: If -- we do not plan on objecting to it, if he wants it.
(CROSSTALK)
BELNAP: Yes.
QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)
BELNAP: Mmm-hmm. QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE) good evidence that Mr. Jeffs has taken underage brides himself, at least two young women, and possibly three, and -- and very likely more than that.
My question to you is, why charge Mr. Jeffs as sort of an extension of that, when he appears to have committed the very crimes several of his followers are now facing in -- in Mohave County? He has taken underage girls (INAUDIBLE) documented evidence (INAUDIBLE) Why not charge him with those crimes?
BELNAP: We bring charges when we have sufficient evidence and a reasonable likelihood of obtaining a conviction. And that's why we're moving forward on this case. There is nothing to say that we wouldn't bring other charges, if sufficient evidence was developed to support a charge.
QUESTION: Are you familiar with those cases?
BELNAP: I -- I -- I don't know specifically what you're talking about.
Yes.
QUESTION: How concerned are you that he might be able to get a bond given to him to get out of prison?
BELNAP: Obviously, the issue of bail is important to us. And that's why we filed the motion to have Mr. Jeffs held with the no-bail hold.
If Judge Shumate eventually determines that that no-bail hold should be reduced, the United States attorney has filed a detainer and will hold him on federal charges.
QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)
BELNAP: I have never personally met Mr. Wright. I don't know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) questions...
BELNAP: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) more.
QUESTION: Just to clarify, sir, are you saying that -- that you see no way of him getting out? The federal government will then put a -- a hold on him in prison if he is offered a bond?
BELNAP: I believe so.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Last question.
QUESTION: Can you explain what you understand the role of Mr. Wright to be?
BELNAP: Mr. Wright told me that he is Mr. Jeffs' counsel that contacted him in Nevada, and is working to help him secure counsel in Utah.
Thank you, everybody. I sure appreciate it. Thank you very much.
PHILLIPS: Prosecutors -- prosecutors' press conference there.
You heard our Gary Tuchman shout out a question. He's going back and forth from our live shots to what's going on there at the courthouse.
We're talking about Warren Jeffs, charged with two counts of rape as an accomplice for allegedly arranging a marriage between an underage girl and an older age man. The charges are first-degree felony in Utah, carrying a maximum penalty of five years to live, upon conviction.
A number of hearings that we have been following -- we're now hearing from the prosecutors two more hearings, possibly.
Peter Viles, one of them, the status of counsel, it looks like, is this second hearing. And I know that Gary is linking up with you again. He can maybe address what -- the question he shouted out there to the prosecutor, and what his answer was with regard to possibly Warren Jeffs being let out on bond.
TUCHMAN: Well, that's a major issue, Kyra. Will Jeffs get out on bond? I know that the prosecutors are very worried if this guy is ever free. And this prosecutor just clarified it.
He says, if the judge offers Warren Jeffs a bond, the federal government -- he has federal charges against him, but the federal government is not playing ball right now. They're letting the states of Arizona and Utah do it. But the federal government will then make sure that there is a federal bond placed upon him, where he will not get out of prison.
So, you can see, this is very high priority -- priority. They do not want Warren Jeffs to be free, at least for now.
PHILLIPS: And two separate hearings, from what I understood from the prosecutor, one with regard to the status of counsel -- and what was the other one, either Peter or Gary, you guys?
TUCHMAN: Right.
The one this Monday, on September 11, 8:30 in the morning, Mountain time, 10 Eastern time, will just be a status conference to discuss where they are so far with getting Warren Jeffs counsel here in the state of Utah.
The major hearing is scheduled for September 19. That's a week from Tuesday. That will be the preliminary hearing to determine if there's probable cause to keep him in prison.
But Warren Jeffs, one thing I -- I neglected to mention to Peter when he asked me the question -- it's just coming up now -- everything's happening so fast and furiously here.
(LAUGHTER)
TUCHMAN: But one thing we neglected to mention is, Warren Jeffs said that his Las Vegas attorney told Warren -- and the Las Vegas attorney wasn't here today, as far as we know. It was one of the questions just asked.
But the Las Vegas attorney told Warren Jeffs to ask the judge, which he did, can we ask for a continuance? Can we have that preliminary hearing delayed?
And -- and that sounds logical, because an attorney who just gets into the case needs to review the case, may not be able to take care of all this stuff he needs to do for a preliminary hearing within 10 days.
The judge said, at this point, I don't want to delay it. You have the right to have a preliminary hearing within 10 days. So, we're going to keep it on the docket for September 19.
But there is the possibility, at this hearing they have this Monday, that they could ultimately delay that very important preliminary hearing.
PHILLIPS: Peter, anything you want to add?
I -- I understand, too, we just got some fresh tape in...
VILES: Sure.
PHILLIPS: ... from the hearing, from the courtroom where Gary was. Any additions to what has happened today?
VILES: Yes.
Well, one point that is really -- that has been really top of mind today is, will any of his supporters show up, and will there be any sort of confrontation here? The sheriff mentioned his concerns about it.
Gary tells me, as far as he can tell, there were no supporters of Warren Jeffs in the courtroom, which makes sense, because he wasn't there himself. That said, though, we have seen these extraordinary precautions, on the -- the concern that perhaps some of these thousands of people might make this 25-mile drive to the courthouse to somehow voice their displeasure with the process here.
This is their religious, their political, their spiritual leader who is being charged with a serious sex crime, and the government wants to lock him up. Do any of these people come forward to speak on his behalf? Certainly not today, not at this courthouse -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: All right, Peter Viles and Gary Tuchman, there in Saint George, Utah...
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIPS: ... thanks, guys.
New rules for terror suspects, how they're treated, tried and interrogated.
Let's get through those new developments with our senior Pentagon correspondent, Jamie McIntyre, who has been following this for us all day.
Hey, Jamie.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SENIOR PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kyra, a lot of developments today on this front.
Here at the Pentagon, they basically announced a complete overhaul of the rules for the detention and interrogation of detainees who are under U.S. military control. The new directive and the revised Army field manual lay out the rules of what can and can't be done in a public way for the interrogation of prisoners under U.S. military custody.
And the Pentagon insists that these new rules will help them better fight the war on terror.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CULLY STIMSON, DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF DEFENSE FOR DETAINEE AFFAIRS: The revised version, the version before you today, sets forth the policies and responsibilities for all detention operations conducted by DOD, but provides the flexibility we need to fight any foe, while, as I said, affirming the values and practices that are at the heart of what we do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCINTYRE: Basically, those -- the directive and the Army field manual order that the detainees be treated humanely, in accordance with U.S. law, in accordance with the Geneva Convention protections afforded prisoners.
It -- it mandates that all detainees be treated the same way, no matter their status, whether they're prisoners of war or enemy combatants, which just a -- a very, very minor exception. And the procedures are -- that are outlined are said to be the only procedures -- that is, there's no classified annex with additional procedures that can be used and not disclosed.
So, everything that is authorized is being disclosed. And anything that is not in the Army manual isn't authorized. But one exception to that, we heard from President Bush today, was, President Bush cited this secret CIA program, he called it, under which people are held in other countries. He said that the CIA used -- quote -- "an alternative procedures" for interrogation, which he insisted was safe, was lawful, was not abusive, and did not constitute torture, but which he would not disclose which techniques those were. And, while he said all of the prisoners held under that were now being transferred to -- to Guantanamo Bay, where they would be protected by the military rules, he didn't rule out having to use those CIA procedures some time in the future to protect the lives of Americans -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Jamie McIntyre, thank you.
Word for word or lost in translation, a Pakistani general's alleged quote about sanctuary for Osama bin Laden?
Plus: my way or the highway? The president of Iran is putting professors on notice about what they teach. Dissing dissent -- ahead from the CNN NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Good fences make good neighbors? Replace fences with border security, and that's the state of Afghan-Pakistani relations and the subject of a two-day meeting between Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf and Afghan President Hamid Karzai in Kabul -- at issue, how to stop militants from using both countries as bases to attack the other. Afghanistan and Pakistan often accuse each other of not doing enough to crack down.
So, what would Pakistan do with Osama bin Laden if he were spotted? ABC News quotes a Pakistani general as saying bin Laden wouldn't be captured if he agreed to live peacefully. But the Pakistani ambassador to the U.S. says the general was grossly misquoted.
In a statement, the ambassador says: "Pakistan is on the hunt for Osama bin Laden and his associates. If he is in Pakistan today or any time later, he will be taken into custody and brought to justice. No amnesty has been granted to Osama bin Laden" -- end quote.
Now, this weekend, get a closer look at the man who brought 9/11 to America. Watch "In the Footsteps of bin Laden," a "CNN PRESENTS" investigation already seen by more than 10 million people around the world. That's Saturday and Sunday night at 7:00 Eastern.
Well, don't mention tenure in Tehran these days. Iran's hard- line president is out to purge university professors who don't see things just the way he does.
CNN's Asieh Namdar reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ASIEH NAMDAR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Since taking office a year ago, Iran's hard-line president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, has called for Israel's destruction, while declaring the Holocaust a myth.
His government has been accused of cracking down on dissidents, independent journalists, Web sites, and bloggers. So, his latest call for university students to return to the 1980s style Islamic radicalism does not come as a big surprise.
He told his followers Tuesday, liberal and secular professors should be ousted from academic institutions.
MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD, IRANIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Our educational system has been under the influence of secular thoughts for 150 years. The cornerstone of world hegemony is ridiculing cultures, and eliminating self-dependence within nations, and imposing its favorite ideals on them.
NAMDAR: Ahmadinejad himself has the power to sack the professors he sees as unfaithful to religious principles imposed by the late Ayatollah Khomeini. But analysts say his latest comments are simply aimed at pressuring hard-line students to start a campaign on their own.
AHMADINEJAD (through translator): Students should shout at the president and ask why liberal and secular university lecturers are present in the universities.
NAMDAR: Some critics see Ahmadinejad's latest call as a diversion from the debate over the country's nuclear program. Others say it's another sign of his determination to create a more Islamic society.
Earlier this year, dozens of liberal university professors and teachers were sent into retirement. And, last year, for the first time since the 1979 revolution, a cleric was named to head the country's oldest institution, Tehran University.
As one Iranian analyst said, hard-liners are extremely afraid of what academics, intellectuals students, and writers can do to influence the masses, especially in a country where there are strong voices of moderation.
Asieh Namdar, CNN, Atlanta.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: Missing in Kyrgyzstan -- a U.S. Air Force officer, Major Jill Metzger, who disappeared while on a shopping trip yesterday with friends from her base.
A task force of U.S. military and Embassy workers are on this, and are -- so are local police.
We will keep you updated.
Lost for almost half her life, can a young Austrian ever woman find herself again? Going public with a riveting story of kidnap, imprisonment and escape -- it's all ahead from the CNN NEWSROOM.
Plus: out of control and burning everything in sight. Crews are gaining ground -- coming up, a live update on the firefight in Montana.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Salim Ahmed Hamdan is a former driver and body guard for Osama bin Laden. His detention led to a scathing Supreme Court ruling that struck down the president's original plans for military tribunals at Guantanamo Bay. Mr. Bush talked about the case and the high court's decision in today's speech.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W., BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia circuit upheld the military commissions we had designed, but this past June, the Supreme Court overturned that decision. The Supreme Court determined that military commissions are an appropriate venue for trying terrorists but ruled that military commissions need to be explicitly authorized by the United States Congress.
So today I'm sending Congress legislation to specifically authorize the creation of military commissions to try terrorists for war crimes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Joining me now in Washington is Salim Hamdan's lawyer, Navy Lieutenant Commander Charlie Swift and in New York, Attorney Jonathan Hafetz. He represents a Guantanamo detainee who is accused of attending a terror training camp.
Commander Swift, I want to start with you. I mean, the president talked about your case specifically, and you're seeing the outcome of that now. What is your reaction to what he had to say about pushing this legislation now for military commissions?
LT. CMDR. CHARLIE SWIFT, U.S. NAVY: It's critical that the legislation be right. The president also noted that Khalid Shaikh Mohammed and Ramzi Bin al-Shibh and others are going to go to commissions. Mr. Hamdan, I think, by everybody's account is a small fry, an almost nobody. These are definitely somebodies.
However, what the president hasn't done is changed the rules that the Supreme Court struck down. While the revision and policy to clearly articulated and follow Common Article Three, as far as detention operations go, is certainly welcome and something we sought.
The rules for trial that the Supreme Court struck down is not following Common Article Three, not providing sufficient protection are exactly the same rules that are going back to Congress yet again. It's going to be -- it provides an opportunity for nothing more than more mistakes.
PHILLIPS: Well, Commander Swift, I'm curious. I want to get more into how you feel about what happened today. But I've been very eager to ask you, did you take a lot of heat for representing Hamdan? Was it hard for you, as being a part of the U.S. military, but I know you're an extremely ethical lawyer as well, but this must have been tough considering 9/11 and what you had to do professionally. SWIFT: Well, I took solace in something the president said at the very beginning, right after 9/11. That was that terrorists might be able to bring down our tallest building, but they could never bring down our values.
And for me, representing Mr. Hamdan, has been about defending our values as much as defending him. Our values are not demonstrated in the commissions, at least no commission that's been authorized to date. And so part of that fight has been a fight that the war on terror doesn't mean a retreat from our basic American values.
PHILLIPS: Jonathan, let's talk about your client. He was accused of participating in a terrorist training camp, correct?
JONATHAN HAFETZ, BRENNAN CENTER: That's correct.
PHILLIPS: How would this legislation, if it goes through, this military commission, affect your client at Gitmo?
HAFETZ: Well, like most of the detainees at Guantanamo, he has not been charged or charged with any offense. Approximately 450 individuals remain at Guantanamo without charge, without meaningful access to judicial review.
And that is the most central feature of Guantanamo, which the bill does nothing to change. The right of the detainees, as the Supreme Court ruled in 2004, to challenge the lawfulness of their detention in a federal court. And it's critical that those detainees have that opportunity of a lawful process and a fair day in court.
PHILLIPS: Wouldn't that happen though, Jonathan, with this military commission? Wouldn't case by case be brought up, and they would talk about the evidence and the charges against them, and isn't that how it would go, or no?
HAFETZ: Well, two things. First, it's important to remember that only a handful of individuals had actually been charged with an offense in the nearly five years that they've been there. Virtually all have been warehoused and kept without judicial process and the administration will never bring them to trial because it doesn't have the proof against them.
Secondly, what the bill does, according to my understanding, and I've only had time to review it quickly, is to attempt to strip the courts of federal Habeas Corpus jurisdiction over challenges by detainees, and that would represent a break with 800 years of Anglo- American tradition and something that would be unprecedented, suspending the great Writ of Habeas Corpus and blocking judicial review.
PHILLIPS: Commander Swift, you know the military well. So those individuals that haven't been charged, have just been detained, how do they go through this military commission, or will they not go through the military commission? Will a separate decision have to be made on what happens to them? SWIFT: It's pretty clear that of the 400 there that only 40 to 80 -- the chief prosecutor has said at maximum, 80 would ever go to a military commission process. So the process that's being put in place, the judicial process, is for a much smaller number.
And I point out that that process, as the Supreme Court pointed out two years later in Hamdan, that that process failed our judicial standards. It did not comply with the basic standards of fair -- of justice that are required in a justice proceeding. So what we have is most people with no trials, and those who do get trials, don't get trials that comply with basic judicial guarantees. It's a lose-lose proposition for everyone.
PHILLIPS: Well, so what happens...
SWIFT: No one wins.
PHILLIPS: So what happens to those, like you said, that haven't been charged? Do they just -- are they just detained until they die?
SWIFT: That is a very open question. Under the law of war, of course, combatants can be detained until the conflict is over. And it raises a central question of, why have judicial trials if what you're really doing is just detaining people in the context of a war. So yes, they can be detained under the law of war. This is, however, a different type of conflict.
And one of the things that Mr. Hamdan also challenges is the fact that he was a combatant at all. In fact, he didn't actually fight for anyone. He simply drove a car, and quit doing that after 9/11.
PHILLIPS: Final thought, Jonathan. I want you to just tell me, considering these 14 high-profile, suspected terrorists that are going to be transferred to Gitmo and apparently be tried in these military commissions, isn't that a good thing, considering what the CIA has said they've been connected to, from 9/11 hijackings to other activities connected to what happened on 9/11? Isn't that progress?
SWIFT: I think it's a step in the right direction to the extent that we were holding 14 individuals in a complete black hole where, contrary to what the president said and what's been reported, individuals had been subjected to torture and other cruel and humane and degrading treatment.
However, the fact remains that if these people are to be brought to justice, consistent with American values and law, they need to be given not just trials, but fair trials. And if the administration asks Congress for the blank check that the Supreme Court said it could not have, we're really not getting anywhere.
PHILLIPS: Jonathan Hafetz and Lieutenant Commander Charlie Swift, I hope we can talk again as this continues to play out. Gentlemen, thanks for your time.
Lost for almost half her life, can a young Austrian woman ever find herself again? Going public with the riveting story of kidnap, imprisonment and escape. It's all ahead from the CNN NEWSROOM.
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PHILLIPS: He was just an ordinary bloke. That's how Steve Irwin is being remembered today by his father, Bob. Bob Irwin says that it's how the crocodile hunter would have wanted it to be remembered, and it's why the family is declining the Australian government's offer of a state funeral. A makeshift shrine is growing outside Steve Irwin's zoo two days after his deadly encounter with a stingray in the Great Barrier Reef.
Irwin's manager says videotape being shot at the time for a documentary -- well, that tape is in police custody and should be destroyed. The Discovery Channel is vowing not to air it.
Snatched off the street and locked in a windowless cell. That was eight-and-a-half years ago. Tonight a young kidnap victim holds Austria spellbound as she recounts her ordeal on national television.
CNN's Matthew Chance has been following the story of Natascha Kampusch since she bolted to freedom two weeks ago -- Matthew.
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, thanks very much.
In many ways, this is a heartbreaking account of an ordeal that lasted not just a few days or weeks or even months, but eight-and-a- half years of Natascha Kampusch's life. She was abducted, remember, when she was 10 years old. This is the first time she has appeared before the cameras since her dramatic escape last month in the -- in Austria near the capital, Vienna.
She has had hundreds of requests from around the world to do interviews. She's chosen just to be interviewed by a couple of Austrian newspapers and by the Austrian state television broadcaster. We'll have access to that interview in a few hours from now.
In the meantime, I can tell you that she gave a vivid account of what it was like to be held for that period of time, the whole of her teenage years, in a very dark, dingy and cramped cell -- dungeon that was essentially built by her captor underneath his garage.
She says she felt very claustrophobic in that small room. She said she threw water bottles at the walls and banged against them with her fists so that somebody could hear that she was down there and she could attract attention to her captivity.
Eventually, she told the interviewer, she would have gone crazy were it not for the fact that her captor eventually let her go upstairs to the main house so that she could use the bathroom and use the other facilities. She was asked by the interviewer how long was it before you were allowed to go up to the house, was it years?
Because that was something that had been discussed in the media. She says no, it wasn't that long but it was at least half a year. So for the other six months, she was actually kept without any break in that small, dingy dungeon, with no access to anybody, apart from her captor. So that was a terrible, terrible ordeal.
And it goes on like that. There were a number of things she says throughout this single television interview she's given, Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Do we have any idea why her captor did this? And was she sexually abused?
CHANCE: We just don't have that kind of detail. Certainly, the exact nature of the relationship between Natascha and her captor, a 44-year-old electrical technician called Wolfgang Priklopil is not entirely clear at this stage, although the police that I've spoken to in Austria say that they believe there was some form of sexual contact. It's certainly not something Natascha is prepared to speak about in public at this stage.
But obviously, she's being subject to discussions and to tests and to examinations by doctors and by psychologists to try and determine what damage was done to this young girl in the eight-and-a- half years, remember, that she was kept away from people, away from pets, away from friends and away from all the normal things that a teenage girl would normally do -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Final question, what does she want to do next, and is she going to go back and live with her family?
CHANCE: Well, she's still got so many things to do. And there was speculation in the media, which I think you've just referred to, about the idea that there may have been a rift with her family, with her mother and father, who have since separated. But she said that wasn't true. In fact, she said one of the first things she was going to do was go on a long holiday with her parents to reacquaint herself with her mom and with her dad, who she hasn't seen, obviously, for that whole period.
A number of other things she wants to do, as well. She said she wants to go shopping. She hasn't done that yet. Obviously, a teenage girl wants to do that, but she hasn't actually found the time to do that. She only escaped, remember, two weeks ago. She has gone outside on her own. She went and had an ice cream, she said.
She even took a ride on the subway. But there are so many things she wants to do, including getting a high school education. Remember, at 18, which is what she is now, she still has had no formal education since the age of 10, when she was abducted -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Matthew Chance, we look forward to seeing the interview. Thank you.
Well, straight ahead, a royal relief. Japan won't have to mess with its Constitution as the stork drops off a blue bundle at the imperial residence. We're knitting all the news together right here from the NEWSROOM.
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PHILLIPS: Fredricka Whitfield working a developing story for us from the newsroom -- Fred.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hi there, Kyra.
All right, new information from the Associated Press saying that British police have now apprehended two more suspects and charged them with that alleged plot that was foiled to have U.S.-bound airliners be bombed while making their way to the states.
This now bringing the number of -- 26 now in all people who have been arrested in great Britain in relation to this plot that was foiled a bit earlier in the summer. The latest information just now that the Associated Press is reporting two more suspects being charged with that alleged terror plot.
We're continuing to work a number of sources and get more information for you, Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Thanks, Fred.
Well, no thrones, me lady. Japan, the oldest hereditary monarchy in the world, has a male heir at last. Japan's constitution allows only male succession, and until now, all the imperial grandchildren have been female. CNN's Atika Shubert has more on the arrival of his tiny highness and a deferred debate on the rules.
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ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was all over the streets, all over the TV, all over Japan. It's a boy. Japan's Princess Kiko, wife of Prince Akishino, has delivered a new male heir, third in line to the throne, averting a succession crisis that has plagued the world's longest-running monarchy. Fans greeted the news with enthusiasm, hoisting fish-shaped banners into the sky to signify the birth of a boy.
"I have been waiting for this news in front of my TV since 7:00 a.m. in the morning," this man says. "Congratulations. I am really happy from the bottom of my heart. Japan is now secure."
But the imperial family itself greeted the news with typical royal cool. The emperor and empress were not even in town, away on royal business. They responded to cheers of congratulations with polite smiles and a written statement hours later.
The man tapped to become Japan's next prime minister, Shinzo Abe, waxed poetic about the new addition. "It feels refreshing, like the clear skies of autumn," he said, "despite gray clouds over Tokyo."
He has reason to sound relieved. The imperial family, bound by Japan's Shinto religious tradition, has finally secured a male heir after a string of daughters, no need for the government to wrestle with the contentious issue of changing the succession law to allow a woman to become emperor.
That may bring some relief to Crown Prince Naruhito and his beleaguered wife, Princess Masako, under pressure to produce a boy of their own.
(on camera): People have been coming here just outside of the imperial palace to celebrate, and some of them say they're even hoping this new arrival will help to solve one of Japan's biggest problem, a declining birth rate. So will a royal baby help to inspire young Japanese to reproduce more? Maybe that's why the news extras are being sponsored by shops for baby products.
(voice-over): It may not solve everything, but Japanese seem to agree, a new royal baby, boy or girl, is good reason to celebrate.
Atika Shubert, CNN, Tokyo.
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PHILLIPS: "Closing Bell" -- straight ahead, Ali Velshi enthusiastically standing by. We'll be right back from the CNN NEWSROOM.
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PHILLIPS: Time for the "Closing Bell" with Ali Velshi. But, first, we finally got our hands on some photos. I've never seen them with hair before, but Mount Kilimanjaro? I guess it's the only way to keep warm.
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