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American Morning

Phoenix Police Announce Arrest with Possible Link to Baseline Serial Killings; Cancer Report Released Today With Positive and Negative News; Terror Suspects Transferred to Guantanamo Bay

Aired September 07, 2006 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, welcome back everybody.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Miles O'Brien. Glad you're with us.

S. O'BRIEN: And I'm Soledad O'Brien.

We're following a developing story out of Phoenix, Arizona today, it's a possible break in the baseline killer case. We've told you about this actually a lot over the last couple of weeks and months. Just about three hours ago now police announced the arrest of a man in connection with a sexual assault. That crime linked, they say, to the baseline killer who is linked in turn to a series of eight killings, several sexual assaults and other crimes as well.

Christopher Sign of CNN affiliate KNXV has our details this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTOPHER SIGN, KNXV REPORTER: This appears to be a very significant break in the case in the search for the baseline killer. A serial killer that's been stalking Phoenix residents for more than a year now. One hundred and fifty Phoenix Police detectives assigned to this case working around the clock. And it appears as though with this arrest, a 40-year-old man arrested, they at least have a strong lead in the case. Listen as Phoenix police describe what happened.

SGT. ANDY HILL, PHOENIX POLICE: We did develop probable cause to make an arrest which we did at about 5:00 p.m. yesterday afternoon, a traffic stop was conducted by our special assignment unit at 28th Street and Pinshot (ph), and a 40-year-old male was taken into custody. He has been charged with one count of sexual assault and one count of kidnapping reference a sexual assault case that took place last year.

SIGN: Phoenix police searching this home after they arrested the man who was coming home from work, they say, and he was pulling into his driveway when the S.W.A.T. team surrounded him. The 40-year-old man's name is not being released. His photo is not being released. But we can tell you a sketch has been put out from previous stories. This is what the baseline killer looks like. Tied to 23 crimes including eight murders around the entire city of Phoenix dating back to August of last year. It is of course a developing story. We expect more information this afternoon. In Phoenix, Christopher Sign, CNN.

(END OF VIDEOTAPE)

M. O'BRIEN: President Bush back at the podium today offing speech number four in his series meant to shore up support for the war on terror. He's pushing congress to change the law so prisoners held at Guantanamo, Cuba, can face military tribunals. Ed Henry at the White House with more there. Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon, we'll get to him in a moment. We begin with Ed. Ed, good morning.

ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning Miles. This legislative battle really starts raging in about an hour when a House committee meets to start combing through the president's plan as well as some competing proposals. Democrats already questioning the timing of the president yesterday coming out and finally acknowledging the existence of the secret CIA prisons where these 14 al Qaeda members and others were held, as well as the timing of the fact that these al Qaeda members have now been transferred to the U.S. military prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, for prosecution just two months before the midterm elections.

But also Republicans having questions about the actual legislative proposal. The president has some controversial pieces, he wants defendants to be prosecuted with evidence they can't see. And he wants to use evidence that was gleaned during various interrogations, Republican senators like John Warner want to make sure this was not coerced testimony. The president yesterday insisted the CIA did not cross the line.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I want to be absolutely clear with our people and the world the United States does not torture, it's against our laws and it's against our values. I have not authorized it and I will not authorize it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HENRY: Now at the outset of this series of speeches the president insisted he did not want it to get political but there's no question this whole series has helped him reframe the debate on the eve of the midterms, from debate about the unpopular war in Iraq to much more friendly ground to him which is the broader war on terror. He'll keep banging that drum today. A speech in Georgia where he will tout various tools on the war on terror like the Patriot Act -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Ed Henry at the White House, thank you very much. Soledad?

S. O'BRIEN: CNN is going to have live coverage of the president's speech today. That is just over an hour away at 10:20 a.m. eastern time. U.S. army overhauling its interrogation manual saying new guidelines for the treatment and the questioning of prisoners in military custody. CNN's Jamie McIntyre is live at the Pentagon for us. Hey Jamie, good morning. JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad. You know Congress dictated that the army field manual be the standard for interrogation for the U.S. military and the Pentagon set about rewriting it. The big question whether to embrace or replace the Geneva Conventions. They decided to embrace them.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE (voice-over): After more than a year of contentious and total debate over how much to reveal to potential terrorists about American detention policy and interrogation tactics, the Pentagon has decided to make all procedures conform to the Geneva Conventions. The new Pentagon directive says all detainees shall be treated humanely and in accordance with U.S. law, the law of war, and applicable U.S. policy. And the details are spelled out in the revised army field manual which Congress has made the law regarding the treatment of prisoners.

LT. GEN. JOHN KIMMONS, ARMY DEP. CHIEF OF STAFF, INTELLIGENCE: The new field manual incorporates a single standard for humane treatment as was eluded to for all detainees regardless of their status under all circumstances in conjunction with all interrogation techniques that are contained within it and there are no others.

MCINTYRE: The manual also gives examples of banned techniques including forced nudity or sexual acts. The use of hoods or duct tape. Beatings, electric shock or other infliction of pain. So- called waterboarding or simulated drowning. Hypothermia or heat distress. Mock executions, withholding food, water or medicine and the use of dogs except for security.

KIMMONS: No good intelligence is going to come from abusive practices. I think history tells us that.

MCINTYRE: The Pentagon considered but rejected a secret annex that would have had additional approved techniques but decided that would only cause suspicion. But just two hours after the Pentagon's announcement, President Bush said the same rule does not apply to the CIA who he revealed had been holding terror suspects in overseas prisons and using tougher alternative procedures to extract what he said was life saving intelligence.

BUSH: I cannot describe the specific methods used, but I think you understand why, if I did it would help the terrorists learn how to resist questioning. And to keep information from us that we need to prevent new attacks on our country. But I can say the procedures were tough and they were safe and lawful and necessary.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE: Human rights groups are applauding the Pentagon's revised interrogation policy but they are raising questions about what it is the CIA is doing. And while they say they don't know exactly what those techniques are that the president won't reveal, they say the fact that they're secret simply invites abuse -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon for us. Thanks, Jamie.

At the half hour we're going to talk about these changes with an attorney for the Center for Constitutional Rights who represents one of the Gitmo detainees. Miles?

M. O'BRIEN: Happening this morning, what a mess for Washington commuters. D.D. is the scene this morning of a wild scene which shut down the beltway. It happened in College Park, Maryland. There you see as police drag two suspects from a suspected stolen car. It prompted them to shut down the beltway in both directions. Traffic backed up for miles. Live pictures now, if you take a quick look you can see traffic is moving once again in both directions as that situation has been taken care of by the authorities.

S. O'BRIEN: Big shake-up to tell you about at number 10 Downing Street. The British Prime Minister Tony Blair is expected to announce a plan to resign within a year. Apparently he's not going to give an exact date today.

M. O'BRIEN: A change of guard or at least control of the guard in Iraq. The U.S. handing over control of Iraqi troops to the Iraqi government. The ceremony doing nothing to stop the violence though, at least 19 killed in insurgent attacks in Baghdad today.

The shaky truce in southern Lebanon is still holding. And today Israel will lift its air and sea blockage of that country. The United Nations assuring Israel peacekeepers will not allow arms to get into the hands of Hezbollah fighters. The eight-week-old blockade has been disastrous for Lebanon's economy.

S. O'BRIEN: Paris Hilton arrested for driving under the influence early this morning. It happened in Hollywood. Her blood alcohol level reportedly .08. That is the legal limit in California.

And TV reporting can be a pretty dangerous job. An investigative reporter and his photographer was attacked while they were working on a story in southern California. It's reported the guy in the blue shirt there, looking at him getting clocked by one of the guys. Apparently he was investigating the woman, too. Part of his investigation. They clearly didn't like it. That's what happened.

M. O'BRIEN: The old body slam.

NASA will decide later today whether to launch the space shuttle "Atlantis" tomorrow. Engineers trying to decide if it's safe to fly with a bulky fuel cell. There's no time to fix it before the launch window closes tomorrow.

S. O'BRIEN: The Atlanta Zoo is celebrating the birth of its first ever panda cub. The tiny little stick of butter was born to mother Loon Loon after 35 hours in labor.

M. O'BRIEN: It could be another one on the way. We don't know, we're watching.

And in San Diego a reunion that has a happy ending but, boy, what an ugly start. Boy and his dog together. A little puppy. It's an 8- year-old boy who is fighting leukemia. His puppy was stolen. Who would do such a thing? The puppy was found. His mom happy to bring him home to the little boy.

(WEATHER REPORT)

S. O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, going to take a look at the upcoming midterm elections, for some of these campaigns are less about the next two years and more about what they set up in 2008.

M. O'BRIEN: Plus, a new study looking at falling cancer rates. But there may be a dark cloud to this silver lining. Especially for one at risk ethnic group. We'll look at that ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

M. O'BRIEN: Pakistan has struck a deal with the tribal leaders who control the rugged lawless terrain near the border with Afghanistan. That's the place where Osama bin Laden was last known to be. Why they believe to be now and where the search has been under way for him. So does this deal, is it tantamount to a peace deal with al Qaeda or protection for Osama bin Laden.

CNN terrorism analyst Peter Bergen joining us now from Kabul, Afghanistan with more on this. Is there some sort of tacit understanding, Peter, do you think, that in coming up with a peace deal with these tribal leaders that Osama bin Laden is sort of being left alone?

PETER BERGEN, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: I don't necessarily think that's part of this deal. I think for any Pakistani politician to really seriously go after Osama bin Laden will be problematic, it doesn't matter which administration is in power. When Pakistanis were polled on the favorability rating of Osama bin Laden in 2004, he had a 65 percent favorability rating. That's higher probably than any Pakistani political figure.

So, I don't think this peace deal on the tribal territories is related to the hunt for bin Laden. But U.S. military officials tell me that they are very worried about this deal on the border with Pakistan. That as part of this deal perhaps al Qaeda might reorganize into larger groups, in Pakistan, taking advantage of the fact that the Pakistani military as part of this deal is actually withdrawing from some of the tribal territories along the Afghan/Pakistan border.

M. O'BRIEN: There's an opportunity there for al Qaeda to gain some strength. Let's get one thing on record here. Do you think Osama bin Laden is hiding in those rugged mountains there?

BERGEN: Oh, no doubt. I mean it's universally held within the U.S. intelligence community, within the U.S. military that bin Laden is in Pakistan. One senior U.S. military official pointed to the region of (INAUDIBLE) to me. That's a region which is high up on the Afghan/Pakistan border up near China. That is a working hypothesis, of course, since there's really no really real time intelligence according to U.S. intelligence officials I have spoken to about his whereabouts.

He's believed to be in the northwest frontier province. The conventional wisdom perhaps in (INAUDIBLE) about halfway up the Afghan/Pakistan border. U.S. military officials saying it is believed that he's actually in (INAUDIBLE). The bottom line is that no one really knows, but it's a good working hypothesis that he's in the Pakistan side on those tribal regions along the border with Afghanistan.

M. O'BRIEN: And you've just sort of alluded to the problem that the president of Pakistan, Pervez Musharraf faces. In many respects capturing Osama bin Laden could be a real political liability for him.

BERGEN: I agree completely. But not -- it's not just Musharraf, there's going to be an election in 2007, next year in Pakistan. There might be new leadership. Any leadership in Pakistan I think would have a hard time in a serious manner going after bin Laden. But even if they wanted to go after him seriously, after all the United States government really wants to find bin Laden, too.

The problem is he's not doing the sorts of things that will get people caught. He's not talking on satellite phones, he's not talking on cell phones. He's a rather intelligent, rather paranoid and secretive individual who is not making obvious errors. And you know its five years after 9/11 now. We still haven't found him. We could have this conversation five years from now and we still might not have found him.

So it's not just the Pakistani government that's having a problem finding him. It's after all the U.S. government that has the strongest desire to find him and to -- despite the best abilities of U.S. officials, there really isn't a lot of actionable intelligence.

There's more on Ayman Al Zawahiri, the number two in al Qaeda. There was a missile attack you may remember in January of this year at a location where Ayman Al Zawahiri was believed to be. It didn't work out but that attack did kill some members of al Qaeda. So there seems to be better information about Al Qaeda's number two than bin Laden himself.

M. O'BRIEN: Final thought here. You're speaking to us from Kabul as we've mentioned, and we have been talking a lot about the Taliban being on the rise there, the poppy crop in bloom. To what extent at this point is the Taliban and al Qaeda connected, linked in any way, shape, or form?

BERGEN: Well, a senior U.S. official that -- military official I've talked to used the phrase severing out al Qaeda from the Taliban is like picking gray hairs out of your head particularly in Pakistan. These groups are now joined at the hip according to Taliban spokesman who have gone on Al Jazeera. Have said we have very close relationships with al Qaeda, they're giving advice, they're getting logistical support. Osama bin Laden is issuing us orders. And so when the Taliban agree on something and the U.S. government agree on something about a close relationship between these two groups, I think you can say that it's a fact. M. O'BRIEN: Peter Bergen is our terrorism analyst joining us from Kabul, Afghanistan. Thank you very much. And catch a special encore presentation of "CNN PRESENTS," "In the Footsteps of bin Laden." It airs this Saturday and Sunday, 7:00 Eastern time. Soledad?

S. O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning there's a new cancer report out. It says that there's some very good news about cancer for some people and some very bad news for others. We'll tell you what it says. We'll break it down. Straight ahead right here on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

S. O'BRIEN: This picture just in to CNN. They're coming to us from the website tmz.com. What you can see here is Paris Hilton being picked up by family members as she was -- after her arrest and the fact that she was charged with driving under the influence. It happened earlier this morning. Police say she was driving erratically and then she failed a field sobriety test. So she was put under arrest and charged with DUI, which is a misdemeanor.

In this car here you can see I guess there she is. Oh she's getting back to her home. She's passenger there, so obviously she wasn't driving. Clearly a number of photographers there as well and she is accompanied by her publicist, Elliot Mintz there as well, and let's license to what he had to say about her unfortunate happenings overnight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ELLIOT MINTZ, PARIS HILTON'S PUBLICIST: Basically she was stopped, and she was given a breathalyzer test, Paris got up around 2:00 or 3:00 this morning to shoot a music video. Her second day of shooting a video. She had not had anything to eat all day. She had one drink.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What was the breathalyzer reading?

MINTZ: The very absolute lowest reading that you could possibly get to warrant being taken in.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Which is point...

MINTZ: Without getting into the specifics it's the absolute lowest and you saw her moments ago. You could see that she clearly was not intoxicated, she was not drunk. But the officers did what they had to do in a situation like that, they took her to the station. She went through the same procedure that everybody else does. Whenever it was determined that she is obviously not a flight risk and she is not inebriated and I offered to drive her home. They released her on her own recognizance. So of course these matters are never to be taken lightly and it's unfortunate that she was behind the wheel of a car even with one drink. And it's her first offense and hopefully it will never happen again.

(END VIDEO CLIP) S. O'BRIEN: That's a man who works hard to be Paris Hilton's publicist.

OK, here's the excuses, you just heard them laid out. She worked hard almost 24 hours straight. She didn't eat all day. She had one drink for God's sake.

M. O'BRIEN: And the very bare minimum to get taken in. And the officers had to do what they had to do. I thought --

S. O'BRIEN: I give him a 10 out of 10 for that performance.

M. O'BRIEN: I would hire that publicist in a heartbeat if I was looking for one.

S. O'BRIEN: Absolutely. Good work Elliot Mintz. That was Paris Hilton's publicist. Excellent job there. The videotape coming to us from tnz.com. You can see it for yourself at their website this morning. We have to take a short break, we're back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

M. O'BRIEN: There's a new report out this morning that offers a good news, bad news picture in the fight against cancer. Overall, fewer of us are dying of cancer, good news. But some groups are dealing with it more than ever. Bad news. Dr. Larry Norton is an oncologist at Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center here in New York City. He joins us, good to have you with us Dr. Norton. First of all, why are fewer of us dying of cancer?

DR. LARRY NORTON, ONCOLOGIST: Well this is really good news because this trend has been going on now for more than a decade and it shows that understanding the disease, better screening, better therapy, access to care, all these things work. When we know that something causes cancer, like smoking, and people smoke less, we have less cancer and fewer cancer deaths. So this is really very good news and we have to emphasize the good news part of this story.

M. O'BRIEN: So we are winning the war. Will we ever totally defeat cancer?

NORTON: Oh, there's no question about that. I mean we all know it.

M. O'BRIEN: Really?

NORTON: Oh, there's no doubt about it. The only question is how can we have that occur as soon as possible. We have an understanding of the biology of cancer today that dwarfs anything we understood even 10 years ago. And that is being translated right now into new therapies, new diagnostic approaches that are going to make a dramatic difference and we all know that.

M. O'BRIEN: Is enough being spent though, is there enough focus on it?

NORTON: Absolutely not.

M. O'BRIEN: Tell us about that.

NORTON: It is as a society it's silly what we're spending on cancer compared to the magnitude of the cancer problem. When the whole national cancer institute's budget is only $5 billion which is compared to other expenditures is very low. The fact is that we now see the light at the end of the tunnel. We know what we have to do to defeat cancer and now is the time we should be putting more and more resources, nationally, internationally into fighting this problem.

M. O'BRIEN: Let's assume for a moment you had a blank check, because $5 billion really isn't a lot when you consider how it affects so many lives. If you had a blank check what would you do?

NORTON: What we're doing now, we're doing the right things, we just have to do more of it. More basic science. Better access to care. More emphasis on screening and prevention by understanding the causes of cancer. Those are all things that have to be done and studies such as the one you just quoted looking at the impact of what we're doing on national trends, so we can get hints for better ways of preventing cancer.

The HPV story, for example, is a very important story if we can prevent infections in the cervix with the virus, we will prevent is cervical cancer. Smoking is an important part. Hepatitis which is a cause of liver cancer. The bug that causes stomach ulcers also causes stomach cancer. All those things can be treated. So we really have a lot of very important hints and of course access to care, better screening. Everybody getting mammograms when they're supposed to, everybody getting a colonoscopy when they're supposed to. We could have a huge impact with what we know just now if we applied it properly.

M. O'BRIEN: All right, let's talk about a couple of problem spots. We're talking about the good news. One of the problem areas is women and thyroid cancer. The rate of thyroid cancer among women is up, up about 9 percent from 2000 to 2003. What is going on there?

NORTON: Well we have to watch that. I mean it's important not to panic about that because that could be just increased diagnosis, people paying more attention to the thyroid, to the thyroid examination. This may not be a higher incidence. Some of these may never really turn into the kind of disease that can hurt somebody.

But it might be real, as well. There may be environmental factors, things about our lifestyle. This is a cause for more research. Exactly what we're talking about before. If this is true and this trend is followed for several years and while we're following it we have to do research into causation of thyroid cancer so that we can prevent it and treat it more effectively when we see it.

M. O'BRIEN: Breast cancer has leveled off though not diminishing, why?

NORTON: Well we saw an increase in breast cancer and part of that might have been the aging of the population, part of that might have been increased use of mammography and diagnosing, smaller lesions. The leveling off is very, very good news. Because it means that we're not seeing an epidemic explosion. But the most important story is the death rate is dropping and it shows that better screening, better care, access to better care, all these things make a big difference. And seeing an actual drop in the death rate even when we saw an increase in the diagnostic rate is very good news.

M. O'BRIEN: And final thought here. Latinos, for whatever reason, disproportionately affected by cancer. What do you think is going on there?

NORTON: This has to be looked at very, very carefully. We have to look at infectious issues that we discussed before, lifestyle issues, diet. But also access to care is important. Language is sometimes a barrier to care. Insurance and a lack of insurance is sometimes a barrier to care. This is also a very important topic and while we focus so much on the biology of cancer which is so important, we also have to focus on the societal issues, access to care, access to screening so that everybody can take advantage of what we now know including special populations.

M. O'BRIEN: All right, we look forward to the day when there is a cure.

NORTON: Thank you for having me.

M. O'BRIEN: Dr. Norton, good to have you with us. Dr. Larry Norton is an oncologist at New York's Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center. Today's top stories are just ahead. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

M. O'BRIEN: Opening bell on Wall Street brought to you with the magic of videotape a couple of minutes ago. Trading on the Dow beginning at 11,406, off 53 points at yesterday's close.

(NEWSBREAK)

(WEATHER REPORT)

S. O'BRIEN: The 14 terror suspects transferred from secret CIA prisons overseas will now be held at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba. It brings the number of Gitmo detainees to about 460.

Attorney Gitanjali Gutierrez is with the Center for Constitutional Rights, and she represents one of the detainees there. His name is Mohamed al-Kahtani. He is also known as the would-be 20th hijacker.

Ms. Gutierrez, nice to see you, thanks for talking with us. Your client's been at Gitmo for how long now?

GITANJALI GUTIERREZ, CTR. FOR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS: He's been -- he's going into his fifth year of detention at Guantanamo right now. S. O'BRIEN: And how would -- what the president announced yesterday in his speech, speech number three, as it's sort of referred to -- how would that affect your client's case?

GUTIERREZ: In many ways, Mohamed's situation is no different yesterday than it is today. He is still detained. There's no prospect of him being charged. He's not eligible for military commission. He's one of over 450 men who are just languishing in Guantanamo that the president has not moved forward on.

S. O'BRIEN: What would you like to see the Congress, including the legislation that -- you know, what's sort of been handed off to Congress now to come up with?

GUTIERREZ: I think what's been proposed to Congress is just a political move. The military and the United States government has all the tools it needs right now to process the men in Guantanamo. All of them have habeas petitions pending in federal court in the United States.

S. O'BRIEN: That's the general -- are you allowed to hold the person?

GUTIERREZ: Right, right. It's the fundamental legal mechanism that someone can challenge executive detention and ask for some basis for the detention to be brought forward in federal court. Under the uniform code of military justice, there are also already lawful procedures for giving a military criminal trial to anyone in Guantanamo Bay who may be accused of violating the laws of war. So Congress really needs to do nothing. We just simply need the president to follow our existing laws.

S. O'BRIEN: There are many who would say a client such as yours, you have to be careful with the kind of information that they get during a trial. I mean, you're not talking about a guy who's knocked over a liquor store. You're talking about a guy who potentially is a terrorist. How do you argue that point?

GUTIERREZ: I think in the situation, the men in Guantanamo Bay -- again, the vast majority of them don't have these kinds of charges even being brought against them. And certainly, Mohamed al Kahtani -- those have been allegations made in the media, but certainly never made in federal court. When allegations are that serious, in our system of justice, in our American justice system, we need to have procedural protections that are the equivalent of the seriousness of the charges.

We would have never convicted people of things that make them eligible for the death penalty or for life imprisonment without making sure that there are safeguards that guarantee a fair trial. And what President Bush is trying to do right now is remove the fundamental safeguards.

S. O'BRIEN: What President Bush said he's trying to do right now is make sure that people who potentially are terrorists are not allowed to have access to information during their trial, and that they actually are brought to justice, in his words. And you know, we had a number of the members of the families of 9/11 there. Why isn't what he's saying accurate, do you think?

GUTIERREZ: I think, one, it can lead to mistakes. And we've seen that happen before. It doesn't guarantee a fair trial. It also doesn't necessarily guarantee accuracy to have a system set up as a kangaroo court that doesn't allow full and fair inquiry into the truth of...

S. O'BRIEN: Why is that necessarily a kangaroo court? I mean, it sounds to me, when we were talking our legal analyst earlier, that there's sort of this fine line between the kangaroo court and also, I mean -- whether we're talking about not necessarily your client, but any hypothetical client who could have terror ties, you open up methods and manners and ways in which you gather information against terrorists. I mean, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that information gets back to terrorists allegedly -- you know, potentially.

GUTIERREZ: Certainly. There are mechanisms in our criminal justice system that allow to us move forward against terrorist suspects and we have on a number of occasions. There have been multiple successful criminal prosecutions against terrorist suspects in the United States where people have been convicted and put in jail and taken off the streets and the American public is safer that way. Those have moved forward without using secret evidence.

When you move into the world of secret evidence and people being placed in secret prison and the president acting without any oversight, we are very much stepping out of an American justice system and American sense of values that our servicemen and women are fighting for abroad. And that really -- that's what the war on -- the fight against terrorism is designed to protect. So giving those up in order to potentially take someone off the streets is a dangerous tradeoff.

S. O'BRIEN: You have been to visit the client how many times? Or I guess you have a number of clients there at Gitmo. So how many times have you been there to visit?

GUTIERREZ: Right. I've been down to Guantanamo seven times. I've spent, on those visits, anywhere from a week to two weeks at the base.

S. O'BRIEN: And what do you think of the conditions there?

GUTIERREZ: I think that the president has misled the public on what the conditions are like in Guantanamo Bay.

S. O'BRIEN: Which is a good answer, but not the answer to the question I asked, which is what are the conditions like?

GUTIERREZ: They are very grim. The men have been held in isolated and subjected to 24-hour lighting, very aggressive interrogation tactics that have left many of them mentally dehabilitated, which makes them worthless for intelligence purposes, as well as violating our own domestic law on human rights that many countries have been criticizing us for. They don't have adequate medical treatment.

S. O'BRIEN: As you know, there are people who say that's not true. (INAUDIBLE) for everybody's safety, that what you describe as grim conditions are significantly better than what, for example, Americans would be held in if there held in these countries elsewhere to those conditions. They wouldn't have a lawyer getting to come to visit them not even one time, certainly not seven times.

GUTIERREZ: We're not a terrorist country. We're not a torturing country. We should be a country that treats people in our military- detention system with the same ideals that are invited in our Constitution and embodied in the uniform military code of justice. At Guantanamo, we've picked up over 450 men who the military intelligence, as well as military leaders, have admitted many of these men should not be held in Guantanamo at all.

They've now been held without contact with their family. They have been cut off from the outside world. They are -- right now there are men who are alleging when they try to pray they are being beaten and prevented from praying. There's many egregious violations of international law, as well as military violations, that are going on in Guantanamo, and there has not been a single independent investigation into what's happening there. And I think it's beneath the American military to treat people that way.

S. O'BRIEN: Gitanjali Gutierrez is with the Center for Constitutional Rights, thank you for talking with us.

GITANJALI GUTIERREZ: Thank you.

S. O'BRIEN: Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Coming up in the program, upgrades and Apple, as the computer giant tries to shake-up the iMacs image.

Plus, a panda party at the zoo in Atlanta. Welcoming the rival of its first panda cub, we'll talk to one man who is right there in the delivery room.

And Miles Cam day coming up at 10:30 Eastern on CNN.com pipeline. I'll be answering your questions. The best way to get those questions to me. Actually the only way to get those questions to me is to send an e-mail to milescam@CNN.com. We invite you to do that right now.

Back with more in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

S. O'BRIEN: The mother is a giant panda. You can see her right there. But her new little bundle of joy is truly tiny, so tiny it's hard to even see the little guy or gal. There she is putting him down right there. When she moves her head up, you can see the little butter stick, about four ounces, the size of a stick of butter. Loon Loon gave birth to a new cub on Wednesday in Atlanta, the zoo In Atlanta. It's the fifth born in the U.S. in the last six years alone. The entire birth lasted 35 hours.

Dwight Lawson is joining this morning from Zoo Atlanta, and he was there for most of it. He joins us.

So how'd it go? How's everybody doing this morning?

DWIGHT LAWSON, ZOO ATLANTA: Everybody is doing great. I think a lot of us are pretty exhausted after all the events of yesterday and they day before, but everything is going better than we had ever hoped. So we're pretty pleased.

S. O'BRIEN: You think you're exhausted. What about the mama panda? You know that's going to lead to that.

Let me ask you a question, when we show clips, you can hear the squealing and squeaking. Actually the two of them are pretty noisy. Is that the mama panda we're hearing? Is that the baby panda we're hearing?

LAWSON: I think most of what you're hearing is the baby panda. That squeaking and squealing is normal. It's actually what we're hoping for. It kind of shows the cub's vigorous and healthy, and it's calling out for mom, who responded like a champ, picked it up pretty much right away, and has taken great care of it ever since.

S. O'BRIEN: What can a brand new baby panda cub do? Can they see? Can they hear? No fur, obviously. Looks like a little naked thing.

LAWSON: Yes, there's very little fur. The coat will come in over the next two weeks or so. Their eyes won't open for about 70 to 75 days. So they're pretty dependent on mom for quite a while. It will be three or four months before the cub is really mobile enough to come out and go on exhibit.

S. O'BRIEN: Now I heard that 50 percent of all panda births are actually twin births. So does that mean you're waiting for Loon Loon to have another baby? I mean, at what point do you stop watching for the twin?

LAWSON: Given how long she drew out the initial labor, we'll probably watch for another two days to see if we have got anything else on the way.

S. O'BRIEN: the little baby is not going to be named for 100 days, as is tradition. Are you having a contest to open it up to people to come up with a great name for the baby?

LAWSON: I'm not sure that we've gotten that far ahead. Any naming process, we'll have to work out with our partners in China.

S. O'BRIEN: Have you been able to get -- I mean, would you go in to examine the baby. Do you just sort of watch from afar to see that they're having normal interactions? How does it work?

LAWSON: Well, at this point we're keeping 24-hour watch on her as we have been even prior to the birth. And sometime in the next couple of days to two weeks, we expect that Loon Loon will get up, she'll start eating a little bit. And at some point in that time she may leave the cub for a little bit, at which point we'll go in, pick it up, do a quick health exam, find out what the sex of the cub is, and then give it back to her as soon as she's ready.

S. O'BRIEN: Oh, I see. So the reason nobody knows if this is a baby girl or baby boy is not because you can't tell, it's because you can't get in there to tell at this point.

LAWSON: Right, right, and because it is so small, and she's taking care of it. She's got it covered up, keeping it warm and everything. So you really cant get that detailed a look at it.

S. O'BRIEN: All right. Well, we'll wait to hear if it's a baby girl or a baby boy. Dwight Lawson is from Zoo Atlanta. Thanks for joining us this morning. Congratulations on the new arrival.

LAWSON: Thank you. Thanks. Appreciate it.

S. O'BRIEN: And maybe a second one if it's a twin.

LAWSON: Yes, we'll hope.

S. O'BRIEN: Thanks. We do, too.

"CNN NEWSROOM" is just a couple minutes away. Heidi Collins is at the CNN Center. She's got a look at what's ahead this morning.

Hey, Heidi. Good morning.

HEIDI COLLINS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you.

And you know what, we are going to stay on top of that panda story for sure, just in case there is another. So we've got that.

And also on a much more serious note, President Bush on the road talking up the post-9/11 Patriot Act, that speech live in the newsroom right out of Atlanta today. We've got that.

Plus, back to business for Beirut's airport. Israel lifts its air and sea blockade. You will see it live.

And back home.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Where are they right now?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All the way like this.

LAVANDERA: That's your thighs.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

LAVANDERA: Where's your waist? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Waist is up here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Dallas may bag the sag. Low riders could actually get kids a ticket now. I love that story. You are in the "NEWSROOM" at the top of the hour right here on CNN.

Soledad, back to you.

S. O'BRIEN: Slippery slope than other fashion crimes.

COLLINS: They're so many though.

(CROSSTALK)

S. O'BRIEN: Ugly outfit -- ticket.

COLLINS: It's ugly. That's right.

S. O'BRIEN: All right, Heidi, we will see you at the top of the hour. Thanks.

Ahead this morning, in business news, Apple Computer upgrades its iMac personal computer and offers a new price. Hope it's going to change some attitudes. We'll take a look at that ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BUSINESS HEADLINES)

S. O'BRIEN: Coming up at the top of the hour, going online for a match? Not a love match, but an organ match. We'll explain how that's working.

Plus, Miles answers some of your e-mails right after this short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

S. O'BRIEN: Hey, if it's Thursday, it's Miles Cam. Hi, Miles, good morning. You're in your office now. Can you hear me?

M. O'BRIEN: Hey, good morning, Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Who are you talking to?

M. O'BRIEN: I'm trying to get them to turn on the lights so you can see..

S. O'BRIEN: You look good, you're fine.

M. O'BRIEN: Trying to get a little help with the light switches here. I forgot to turn on the lights.

S. O'BRIEN: Ah, that's all right.

M. O'BRIEN: It's a Miles -- we kind of have a low budget here for Miles Cam.

S. O'BRIEN: All right, do want me to get to some of...

M. O'BRIEN: As a matter of fact, no budget.

S. O'BRIEN: ... the e-mails you're getting already?

M. O'BRIEN: We do, yes.

S. O'BRIEN: I was going to say, low budget? No budget.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes, let's do that right away.

S. O'BRIEN: All right. Do you want me read you the first?

M. O'BRIEN: Yes, that would be zero.

S. O'BRIEN: Hillary in North...

M. O'BRIEN: Yes, let's do that!

S. O'BRIEN: Hillary in North Carolina writes this: "Miles, what is the coolest gadget you own? Not the can't live without kind like a BlackBerry, just the out and out coolest?"

M. O'BRIEN: Oh, not the out -- let's see, I would say the -- gosh, that's kind of hard because if it's cool, you can't live without it, right, so...

S. O'BRIEN: Yes, but she doesn't mean like the serviceable, predictable. She means like just the thing you own because it's cool. Like, you bring people to your home and say, look at this cool thing I have.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes, yes, I would say that tom tom (ph) thing. Have you seen those things? The tom tom?

S. O'BRIEN: No, what's that?

M. O'BRIEN: The GPS thing you put in the car. Oh, it's great. It's great. And you just punch in the address and it takes you right there. And it kind much gives you a three-dimensional look of the road. It's pretty neat. You know, I got to say, this is -- it's hard to beat this. This is, you know -- this is the gadget that, if I lost this, I would have no life.

S. O'BRIEN: That's your little trio.

M. O'BRIEN: Well, actually I switched back to BlackBerry. I go back and forth between the Trio palm products and BlackBerry. I'm back on BlackBerry mode now.

S. O'BRIEN: That's a lot for your I.T. guy to do. Can I get to another question?

M. O'BRIEN: Yes, you may.

S. O'BRIEN: This is a good question. Who inputs the information that crawls along the bottom of the screen during the telecast, the crawl?

M. O'BRIEN: Well, right now, it's a guy named Chris Mold (ph). And on Pipeline, we're going to give him a call. We'll actually give him a call. So if you tune in to Pipeline at 10:30 Eastern, we'll talk to Chris about his job. But basically we hire sharp people, good writers, usually, who come out of the newsroom. And actually really enjoy it because they're kind of their own autonomous operation there.

They sit down with a specialized computer program, choose upwards of I think it's several dozen stories at any given moment that feed into that crawl automatically. And they have a lot of latitude on what stories to pick and how to write it and it's like constantly writing a series of headlines, I guess. And we will hear from Chris, who is at the crawl -- doing the crawl as we speak in just a little bit.

S. O'BRIEN: Looking forward to that. Miles Cam begins at?

M. O'BRIEN: 10:30 Eastern on CNN.com/pipeline. And talk about gadgets you can't live without. The Pipeline product.

S. O'BRIEN: The Pipeline product. All right, Miles, thanks. We'll see you then.

M. O'BRIEN: All right, you're welcome.

S. O'BRIEN: That's it for AMERICAN MORNING. We're out of time.

Up next, Tony Harris and Heidi Collins are in the new "CNN NEWSROOM."

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