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Nancy Grace
Skakel Attorneys Have New Evidence of Their Client`s Innocence
Aired September 07, 2006 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight: A member of the political powerhouse Kennedy clan goes down on charges of murder one in the bludgeoning death of a 15-year-old neighbor, Martha Moxley. Murder weapon, a golf club. Crime scene, one of the richest enclaves in this country, Belle Haven, Connecticut. Motive, pure rage.
But now, with the murder conviction signed, sealed and delivered, does new evidence threaten to overturn the murder case? And what role, if any, does the Kennedy connection play?
And tonight: She begged a court for help, but a Maryland judge not only turned a deaf ear but ridiculed her in open court. Shortly after, her abusive ex burned her alive while she was at work, with witnesses! Well, now the judge steps down, and guess what? It`s just before a disciplinary hearing, beating the rap, and with a full pension to boot. Tonight, Judge Richard Palumbo, you are in contempt, sir!
But first tonight: Does new evidence threaten a reversal on a murder conviction on a Kennedy cousin?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DORTHY MOXLEY, MURDER VICTIM`S MOTHER: He`s guilty. I know he`s guilty. And he will always be a felon, and he will -- I will always know that he did it. It depends on the court. And you know, I`ve been with this for almost 30 years now, so you know, we just have to wait and see.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight.
Justice never sleeps. In this case, 15-year-old Martha Moxley bludgeoned to death with a golf club belonging to a neighbor, found out in the open yards there in Belle Haven, Connecticut, one of the richest, most posh neighborhoods in the entire country. Well, that case languished for years, over 25 years, before a member of the powerful Kennedy clan went to trial.
Out to Court TV`s news correspondent Jean Casarez. What is threatening the murder conviction?
JEAN CASAREZ, COURT TV: Well, Nancy, defense attorneys for Michael Skakel -- they want a new trial, and they say they want it because of newly discovered evidence. There is a videotaped interview that they shot in 2003, their defense investigators, with a man named Tony Bryant. And in that, he described that he and two of his friends were actually there in Connecticut that night in October 1975, and that his two friends may have allegedly committed this murder, not Michael Skakel.
GRACE: OK, so the trial was June 7, 2002. They come forward 2003 -- Uh-oh! Ruh-roh! -- right after the guilty verdict. That`s some timing, huh, Jean Casarez?
CASAREZ: Well, that`s right. The defense investigators were trying to find new evidence at the time, and allegedly, this person, Tony Bryant, tried to come forward in 2000 and 2001, but nobody would really listen to him.
GRACE: Gee, I wonder why. Let me ask you a couple of quick questions, Jeannie. Number one, did they live in Belle Haven, Connecticut?
CASAREZ: No. No. Tony Bryant did not, or his friends.
GRACE: Is there any record of them having ever been in Belle Haven, Connecticut?
CASAREZ: Well, that`s a good question. According to this videotape, they apparently took the train that night into Connecticut, that they`d been there several times in the year of 1975, including fall of 1975, but as far as actual train tickets or records, that`s a good question.
GRACE: You know what? That just doesn`t sound right to me.
Out to Dominick Dunne, contributing editor of "Vanity Fair" magazine, host of Court TV`s "Power, Privilege and Justice," and our friend Dominick Dunne wrote "A Season in Purgatory," based on the Moxley murder. Dominick, why would somebody leave the bright lights of New York City to take a train to look out at the countryside and the moo cows in Belle Haven, Connecticut? Why?
DOMINICK DUNNE, AUTHOR, "A SEASON IN PURGATORY": Well, this is a story that has never stood up to me. I`ve never believed this story. You know, I think -- it is a gated community in an extremely rich town. There are three young African-American boys walking through town, somebody would have noticed them.
Now, 30 years have gone by. Why did this guy wait so long? I understand -- I`m dying to see that video, but I understand on the video, from someone I talked to today who had seen it, that he claims to have seen -- this is Gitano "Tony" Bryant -- that he claims to have seen earlier in the evening Julie Skakel, the one sister in that large family of boys. Now, if this is so, why hasn`t Julie Skakel come forward? Why is -- why is this the biggest secret of all time that these three African-American guys were in this gated community that night?
GRACE: And Dominick, isn`t this Tony Bryant related to NBA star Kobe Bryant?
DUNNE: Cousin. And at the time that he first came forward, I understand -- can`t prove this -- I understand that Kobe Bryant`s lawyers told him to shut up because it was confusing the other case.
GRACE: Well, I`ve got another question. Back to you, Jean Casarez. It`s my understanding that the alleged newly discovered perpetrator, Al Hasbrouck, along with Burt Tinsley, say to this Tony Bryant guy, I want to go caveman on Martha Skakel -- in other words, club her to death. Well, in fact, she was clubbed to death and actually stabbed through and through with the golf club belonging to the Kennedy cousin family.
So how did they know Martha Skakel? Why would they take a train from New York City, go an hour-and-a-half, two hours up to Belle Haven, to a gated community, to kill Martha Moxley?
CASAREZ: Well, allegedly, they had been there before. They knew some people that lived in the area, and the two friends were fixated on Martha Moxley. They liked her. They thought she was really, really cute. And on the train in there that night, they allegedly said that they wanted to go caveman on her.
GRACE: Well, where does that leave, Dominick Dunne, the statements by the defendant convicted at trial, Michael Skakel, Kennedy cousin, who said -- cover your ears if you`re weak-kneed -- that he was up in a tree outside Martha Skakel`s (SIC) window...
DUNNE: Masturbating.
GRACE: ... looking at her, masturbating? Now, where does the gang come in? Don`t you think somebody up in a tree would have noticed these guys?
DUNNE: I think so. I think so.
GRACE: Unless he was too busy to notice what was going on around him?
(LAUGHTER)
DUNNE: Well, anyway, I just don`t believe this story. I just do not believe these guys were there, and I just think it`s so -- it`s just impossible for me to believe that 30 years could go by and nobody mentions these guys until after Michael has been convicted.
GRACE: To Dominick Dunne. Dominick, what is the evidence against Michael Skakel, Kennedy cousin? And what took so long to go to trial?
DUNNE: Well, what happened is that Michael`s father, Rushton Skakel, hired a private detective agency to take the suspicion off his family. You know, there was another brother, Tommy Skakel, who was actually the last one to see Martha alive and -- or to be seen with Martha when she was alive. And when this private detective agency -- they had total access to the Skakel kids in a way that the -- that the Greenwich police never really did. And Michael Skakel, during an interview with his father`s private detectives, changed his story about where he was on the night, and that was the beginning of this whole thing.
GRACE: Ruh-roh! Changing a story. You know what? There`s nothing like telling the police you`re up in a tree outside the victim`s window, masturbating, to get you off the hook on a murder case.
OK, let`s go to the lines. Pamela in Kentucky. Hi, Pamela.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. How are you?
GRACE: I`m great. What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would like to know what happened to Michael Skakel`s brother.
GRACE: Oh, good question!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He had a date with her that night. Because I have always wondered about that.
GRACE: Wasn`t his name Tommy Skakel, Dominick?
DUNNE: Tommy Skakel is the name. He has always been a very suspicious figure in this. You know, I believe that Michael killed her, but also, Michael needed help cleaning up. That was a terrible mess after she was bludgeoned to death. When Tommy Skakel was last seen with her, he was sort of roughhousing with her on the lawn. Michael Skakel kind of thought of Martha as his girlfriend, and Tommy seemed to be moving in.
It was very interesting also at the trial, which I attended, that only twice did Tommy Skakel appear, and it was brief and there was an obvious awkwardness between Tommy and Michael Skakel. We haven`t got to the bottom of the mystery of Tommy Skakel.
GRACE: To Jean Casarez. Describe the wounds to this 15-year-old girl.
CASAREZ: Horrible. Horrible. She was bludgeoned to death. I think that`s just -- picture what that is describing. It was a golf club, but the golf club was in pieces around her body. In fact, I think one piece was never even found. It was gone.
DUNNE: That was this piece, where the fingerprints would be.
CASAREZ: Right.
DUNNE: And the other piece had a sharp edge to it, and it was put like a dagger through her neck. There had to be huge strength to get this piece of sharp wood through to the other side.
DUNNE: A deadly weapon, Nancy.
GRACE: And the thing is, this golf club belonged to the mother, then departed, of Michael Skakel, and all the rest of the other golf clubs were in a closet in her bedroom. Yes, no, Dominick?
DUNNE: That`s true. Absolutely true.
GRACE: And it was their theory that these golf clubs had been strewn around on the front yard, but that simply is not the case. Take a listen to what 15-year-old Martha Moxley`s mother had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MOXLEY: I know he killed Martha, and I know -- I can`t believe that being in jail even, you know, two-and-a-half years is a very pleasant thing. He`s guilty. I know he`s guilty. And he will always be a felon, and he will -- I will always know that he did it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I disagree with my mother. I think Michael Skakel is evil. I think their whole family is evil. I think that, you know, to benefit from, you know, hiding something that nobody ever intended for anybody to get away with something because they were clever enough to avoid being arrested and detected for five years is ridiculous.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Let`s take a look at the legal angles here. How do you reopen a murder case? How do you actually get a case handed back down for trial on newly discovered evidence?
Let`s go out to the lawyers. Joining us, Renee Rockwell, defense attorney, Eleanor Dixon, prosecutor, and of course, Steve Greenberg, defense attorney. What about it? What does it require, Eleanor Dixon, to have a murder one conviction reopened?
ELEANOR DIXON, PROSECUTOR: Well, if you`re asking for a motion for a new trial, it does have to be newly discovered evidence, and that has to be something credible, not something that`s made up or something that seems sort of fantastic, such as this evidence. You really have to have something credible, something that the judge can look at and say, Yes, this is something that warrants opening up the case.
GRACE: And to you, Renee Rockwell. It`s got to be not just newly discovered evidence, it has to be evidence that was not possible to obtain during the trial, and it has to be evidence that would, more likely than not, change the outcome of the trial. Agree or disagree? And analyze this newly discovered evidence.
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I agree, Nancy. But here you have a situation where all you have is a tape. Now they want these guys to come up and actually sit in a witness chair and testify, they`re all pleading the 5th, as they should. They don`t need to say anything now.
GRACE: OK. Now, you just changed the entire discussion to pleading the 5th Amendment, and there`s nothing like raising your hackles -- to Steve Greenberg -- than knowing someone you want questioned takes the 5th. If they`re innocent, why take the 5th?
STEVE GREENBERG, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, that`s a problem here if they`re innocent, but the information is they were in the neighborhood, and they may have even...
GRACE: Wa-wa-wa-wa-wait!
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Nobody says that...
(CROSSTALK)
GREENBERG: Well, says them. What I want to know is, if they`re telling this story -- and we do see people confess to things they didn`t do, it just happened, we do see people wrongfully convicted, it happens all the time. It happens one time, it`s too much -- why not give them immunity, where they could tell their story under oath, subject to cross- examination? You can give them use immunity so that anything they say at that hearing can`t be used against them later on, against themselves to prosecute them. Give them use immunity, get to the bottom of the story.
Now, I would think, though, if their story was truly credible, with all the resources that this Skakel family has, that they`d have come up with some corroborating...
GRACE: OK, wait!
GREENBERG: ... evidence...
GRACE: Wait, wait!
GREENBERG: ... and that`s the real problem.
GRACE: Stop. Don`t start up with immunity because if you have ever seen these crime scene photos, like many of us have, whoever killed this girl by running a golf club through her neck, through and through, is not going to get immunity. Sweet dreams, Steve Greenberg!
GREENBERG: Only immunity to tell your story.
GRACE: Not going happen. What about it, Eleanor Dixon, immunity?
DIXON: No, that`s not going to happen, from a prosecutor`s standpoint. Besides, you`re going to give people who are allegedly the killers immunity from the crime? That makes no sense.
GRACE: Another question. Dominick...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Go ahead. Go ahead.
DUNNE: I just wanted to say, also, that I think it`s very interesting that one of these two guys who has been named by Mr. Bryant in this famous tape is -- is -- is has threatened to sue him for libel and slander.
GRACE: Quick break. We`ll all be right back.
But very quickly, to tonight`s "Case Alert." An arrest in the "baseline" serial killer stalking the desert city of Phoenix, suspect Mark Goudeau, a convicted felon with a rap sheet back to the `80s, arrested at a routine traffic stop, tonight forensically linked to two sex assaults last September, the "baseline" killer suspected in eight separate deadly attacks in the desert town in the past year alone.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We did develop probable cause to make an arrest, which we did at about 5:00 PM yesterday afternoon. A traffic stop was conducted by our special assignment unit at 28th Street and Pinchot (ph), and a 40-year-old male was taken into custody. He has been charged with one count of sexual assault and one count of kidnapping, to reference a sexual assault case that took place last year.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Paradise for the Skakels is in a legal loophole. And you know, nobody ever talked about the truth, and nobody ever talked about him being innocent. It`s just, where`s the loophole? We know Michael killed Martha. He`s where he belongs. He should be in jail.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Tonight: A member of the powerful Kennedy clan goes down on charges of murder one, and now that conviction is threatened. A reversal could be in the works, based on newly discovered evidence.
Let`s go out to the lines. Tammie in Texas. Hi, Tammie.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi.
GRACE: What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Love your show.
GRACE: Thank you. What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, it`s really not a question.
GRACE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did anybody really ever think Michael Skakel was going to stay in prison?
(LAUGHTER)
GRACE: Tammie, why do you say that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, because. I mean, nobody ever thought that he would go to prison, and I just don`t think anybody really thought that he would stay in prison.
GRACE: Because he`s wealthy...
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... Kennedy.
GRACE: ... and he`s a Kennedy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
GRACE: You know what? Dominick Dunne, the Kennedys do have an amazing ability to escape criminal charges. I`m not going to even mention the last Kennedy, who ran into a concrete roadblock in Washington. And where is he? In the Mayo Clinic somewhere, getting hypnotherapy. I mean, did you really believe that this guy, Michael Skakel, would ever see the inside of a jail cell?
DUNNE: I was so stunned that day in the courtroom. I`ve been so used to having them say, like at O.J. Simpson`s, Not guilty, so when he said -- when they said, Guilty, in the courtroom in Norwalk, Connecticut, that day, I was absolutely stunned.
GRACE: Dominick, the evidence against the Kennedy cousin, Michael Skakel, to my knowledge -- and you know it so much better than me. I mean, you`ve actually written a book, "A Season in Purgatory," and it was because of you that this case was actually opened, reopened after 25 years languishing. What were his confessions?
DUNNE: Well, as I remember it -- now, you know, I`ve done a lot of trials since then. But as I remember it, he placed himself in a different position so that it was possible, and then the -- they just moved in on him, and he -- I -- that`s as I remember it.
GRACE: I know he changed his story, Jean Casarez, but I seem to recall that he was in a summer camp of some sort and began giving confessions, Jean.
DUNNE: That`s right.
CASAREZ: Right, allegedly for substance abuse. I think it was even of a religious nature. And he started, allegedly, to confess, inform. Also, there was a driver for the family who was also a handyman for the family, and he was driving Michael, and Michael got out and tried to jump off of a bridge and then got back in, and he said to the driver, Oh, I`ve just done something terrible, and you would never want to talk to me again if you knew what it was.
The defense had an answer for that, but I think that was part of the prosecution`s case.
GRACE: Back to the lines. Michelle in New York. Hi, Michelle.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello?
GRACE: Hi, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question, Nancy, is, Has anybody checked to see if there has been any money wired to the two people now that they accuse to be the victims of this -- the -- I mean, the perpetrators of this crime?
GRACE: Money. Very, very interesting. What, if anything, do we know about that, Jean Casarez; And Michelle clearly suggesting some type of a payoff.
CASAREZ: Oh, sure. Michelle had a great question.
GRACE: It`s not that far-fetched.
CASAREZ: No. But I think there are so many unanswered questions, because another question is, Why are they taking the 5th? Why -- if Adolph or Burt -- if they`re innocent, why don`t they just say, Look, here`s where I was that night, here you go, here`s my alibi, I`m out of here?
GRACE: Well, they could be taking the 5th on making a false statement. We`ll all be right back. With us, special guest Dominick Dunne tonight, and we`ll be going to out to psychoanalyst Bethany Marshall when we get back.
Let`s got to the "Case Alert," Rosie (ph). Just days before the five- year mark on September 11, the attack on our nation, video surfaces of Osama bin Laden and others planning 9/11, Al Jazeera broadcasting the tape today. Three of the co-conspirators on the tape with bin Laden already captured or killed by U.S. forces.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MOXLEY: I know he killed Martha. And I know -- I can`t believe that being in jail, even, you know, two-and-a-half years is a very pleasant thing. He`s guilty. I know he`s guilty. And he will always be a felon, and he will -- I will always know that he did it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back. Could a murder one conviction on a powerful member of the Kennedy clan, Michael Skakel, be in jeopardy, a case that languished for 25 years before it went to trial, the bludgeoning death of a 15-year-old girl, Belle Haven, Connecticut, Martha Moxley?
Let`s go back out to the lines. Karen in West Virginia. Hi, Karen.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good evening. I was wondering, why don`t they limit the number of appeals a person could have? I know in the state of West Virginia, we don`t seem to have that. And my daughter also was murdered, and every time we turn around, he goes up on appeal.
GRACE: Karen, you are preaching to the choir. Several years ago, Clinton got pushed through the Anti-Terrorism and Appellate Act to try to streamline appeals, but it doesn`t really reduce the number of appeals you can have. Explain, Eleanor.
DIXON: Well, a defendant could appeal his guilty verdict from trial, and if that is upheld...
GRACE: Well, first there`s a motion for a new trial.
DIXON: Well, right. We`ve got to do that. And then they deny that, then they appeal it to the appellate courts. Then they might say, Oh, we`re being held in jail illegally, so they file what`s called a habeas to say, Let me out because I`m being held illegally for some reason. It can go on and on for years.
GRACE: So basically, Karen, it starts with a trial judge, with a motion for new trial, which they typically turn down. They`re not going to say they committed error. Then it goes to the state appellate court. Then it can jump into the federal system all the way up through many layers to the U.S. Supreme Court.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, we are bitterly disappointed. There is no way to hide it. This is certainly the most upsetting verdict I have ever had or will ever have in my life, but I will tell you, as long as there`s a breath in my body, this case is not over as far as I`m concerned.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Now, a murder one conviction that was attained against a member of the powerful Kennedy political clan is threatened with reversal. Out of the blue comes three guys. Apparently Tony Bryant, relative of NBA great Kobe Bryant, claims that he was with two others at the time Martha Skakel - - Martha Moxley was killed. They bludgeoned her to death and it remained a secret for nearly 30 years. To Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst. Why would anyone stir this story up and give a statement like this if it were not true?
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: You know what, I think it`s the John Mark Karr syndrome. He has inserted himself possibly into a crime that he didn`t commit, but the question is why, why would someone do that? I think there are a couple of reasons. First of all, for a boy, for a man sometimes sex and aggression is very closely linked, so to hear about the violent nature of this death and to think of this girl dying may be emotionally and sexually satisfying to him on some level. So if he inserts himself, it`s like he shares in the experience. Also, this is a very famous case, so if he inserts himself, he gets infamy and notoriety, and then, also, the experience of being questioned and the limelight himself. He gets a chance to talk and to be heard, and I think that for really disturbed people, these can be very powerful and strong motivators.
GRACE: Three words of agreement, John Mark Karr. I think that says it all when referring to people that attach themselves to famous cases. Out to the lines. Donna in Georgia. Hi, Donna.
CALLER: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
CALLER: Actually, I would like to know, has anything been said about any civil action to be taken against the Skakel guy as far as getting any money on this or set up some type of a fund?
GRACE: Good question. Do we know anything about a civil lawsuit, Dominick Dunne?
DUNNE: I have not heard of one.
GRACE: I just don`t see Martha`s mother, Martha Moxley`s mom filing a civil lawsuit.
DUNNE: I don`t either.
GRACE: The trial enough was so painful for her after all those years, Dominic.
DUNNE: You know, she is an incredible woman, Dorothy Moxley. I have known her now for years, and I consider her a good friend. I don`t think she would ever go through a civil trial.
GRACE: So, Dominick, you were telling us how Michael Skakel, a Kennedy cousin got to be a suspect to start with and it`s really because of this private investigator that had access to the family that you know of and there was that one sheet of paper in the PI`s file that came to your attention. What was on -- what was in the file that made you perk up?
DUNNE: I feel terrible. I can`t remember what was in the file.
GRACE: I remember you told me that it was a statement where this investigator had interviewed all the members of the Skakel family.
DUNNE: That`s right.
GRACE: And in it, you saw that Michael Skakel, Kennedy cousin, really incriminated himself.
DUNNE: That`s right.
GRACE: And that`s how the case really got reopened after all these years.
DUNNE: That`s right. And that`s when Mark Fuhrman came into the case, whom I brought into the case, and to the distress of the Greenwich police, and -- but, you know, there`s a lot of people who have worked hard on this case over the years, and one is detective Frank Garr, who is -- who I think has done a wonderful job, but, you know, Mark Fuhrman did a lot on this case too, and he was -- he ruffled everybody`s -- you know, we got it going. You know what I mean? It just had been dormant for so many years.
GRACE: And what do you think about the connection, Dominick between the Kennedy`s and the fact that this case went unsolved for so many years?
DUNNE: Well, I don`t know. The Kennedy`s get blamed for a lot of things.
GRACE: That`s true.
DUNNE: And, you know, this could just be a Skakel - thorough (ph) Skakel thing. People don`t know much about the Skakel family. I went to Ethel Skakel and Robert Kennedy`s wedding in 1950, and at that time, you know, the Skakel family was richer than the Kennedy family at that time. I think they have had hard days since, but most people are not aware of that. The Skakel family was a very powerful family.
GRACE: To Jean Casarez with Court TV. How will it work? Are investigators giving this newly-discovered evidence any real credence, and if they do, what will happen?
CASAREZ: It`s going through the legal process right now, and what the defense attorneys are doing, they`re asking for a motion for a new trial based on this videotape from Tony Bryant along with the fact that Tony Bryant and his two friends have pleaded the fifth on all of the depositions that have been scheduled for them. So based on those two things, they believe they deserve that new trial. Now, to counter that, the other side is saying, huh-uh, you need sworn statements from Tony Bryant. You don`t have that.
GRACE: OK. (INAUDIBLE) Does Skakel have a shot at a new trial?
CASAREZ: Well, I think we`re just going to have to see what the judge says, and if a hearing is allowed and --
GRACE: No, Jane. No, no, no. You`re a trial lawyer. What`s your handicap? Will he get a new trial?
CASAREZ: I think there`s a possibility.
GRACE: Renee?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, not unless somebody takes the stand under oath, says that we did it.
GRACE: Stan Greenberg, new trial?
GREENBERG: Not a chance on this.
GRACE: Eleanor?
DIXON: No, no new trial.
GRACE: OK. So far the vote is no new trial, but right now law enforcement on the edge of their seat waiting for the outcome.
(NEWSBREAK)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: To headline`s Glenn Beck. Hi, Glenn.
GLENN BECK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Coming up Nancy, the enemy is at our gates, and the president of the Iran wants to come here to the U.S. and debate President Bush. Sounds crazy, but I tell you why it makes a lot of the sense to them. Also, Rush Limbaugh in a very rare appearance joins me to talk about politicians and the invasion of illegal immigrants than threatening our country. Oh, and Jamie Lee Curtis, she`s an accomplished actor and author, but we had one of the most awkward conversations ever on television. Don`t miss it tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The way he was talking to my sister is inexcusable.
YVETTE CADE: I want an absolute immediate divorce.
JUDGE: I`d like to be six foot five, but that`s not what we do here. You have to go to divorce court for that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That was the voice of Judge Richard Palumbo out of Maryland when a woman in great fear of her life came before him asking for help. He turned a deaf ear and actually ridiculed her. Shortly thereafter her ex came and burned her alive at her place of business. All we have to say to you tonight, Judge Palumbo, is you are in contempt. Now just before his disciplinary proceeding, he decides to step down from the bench, therefore, insuring a lifetime pension of about $100,000. Let`s go to senior editor of "Reader`s Digest," Sacha Zimmerman. What do you make of Palumbo?
SACHA ZIMMERMAN, SENIOR EDITOR, READER`S DIGEST: Hey, Nancy, yeah, you know, it`s bad enough that the guy humiliated and badgered Yvette Cade in a time of need, but then he, you know, did it again when he didn`t take responsibility for not giving her the protective order, blaming it on a clerical error, and now he has really hit the Trifecta. He`s retired the very month that he was supposed to be brought up for a public hearing, meaning that he will retire with a complete $100,000 pension without any kind of public censure or reprimand and without, most importantly, allowing Yvette Cade to have her day in court to say her piece.
GRACE: To Yvette Cade, domestic violence survivor, she lived against all the odds. A huge portion of her body burned that day. Yvette, thank you. Oh, you look pretty. Thank you for being with us.
YVETTE CADE: Thank you.
GRACE: Yvette, when that judge ridiculed you and mocked you in court, you went back to work only to suffer horrendous burns all over your body. What`s your opinion of this judge now avoiding a disciplinary --there`s the video. Let me warn you, this is video of Yvette when her husband set her on fire at a local cell phone store. What do you think about this judge stepping down off the bench, avoiding the disciplinary hearing, and now your tax dollars Yvette, are going to support his pension for life.
CADE: Well, what I would like to say to Richie Palumbo is what`s the price of a soul? You know, all the money in the world won`t help him in the pearly gates of God, number one. He has used cash, his position, our cash, tax dollars to dodge the system, not face charges for the misconduct trial, and the network of friends that he has has protected him, has --
GRACE: Well, Yvette.
CADE: Said some nasty things to me.
GRACE: I`m glad you brought up the network of friends Yvette, because that`s something I want to report on tonight. The commission -- the so- called Maryland commission on judicial disabilities are the ones that voted for him to get a lifetime pension around $100,000 a year, but I want you to take a listen to what this judge had to say to this lady in court.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CADE: He`s contacting my family. He`s still contacting me. He`s intimidating my daughter and he`s vandalizing other peoples` property. I want an immediate, absolute divorce.
PALUMBO: I`d like to be six foot five. But that`s not what we do here. You have to go to divorce court for that.
CADE: He was trying to force me to go to marriage counseling.
PALUMBO: Might not be a bad idea if you want to save the marriage.
CADE: I don`t want to, because.
PALUMBO: Then you`re in the wrong place. Get a lawyer and go to divorce court. This petition is denied or dismissed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Tonight joining us, I`m proud to say, the star chamber, three highly respected trial judges now off the bench are joining us to weigh in. First of all, to veteran trial judge in the inner city Atlanta jurisdiction. He has tried every type of case you can imagine, Gino Brogdon. Gino, what`s all this about? No offense Judge, but what`s all this about a lifetime pension? How does that work? I don`t have a lifetime pension.
JUDGE GINO BROGDON, FMR.JUDGE, FULTON SUPERIOR COURT: Well, he was not always a judge. There was some time that he spent serving the public, and that time is counted toward guaranteeing his pension. His team on the bench was just four years and, unfortunately, he didn`t handle that well, but in taking into consideration that he spent most of that public service time not a judge, the committee decided not to take that away from him.
GRACE: Yeah, that`s pretty interesting too. Also, former judge out of Passaic County, New Jersey, Stephen Wellinghorst. Steven, he dodged a bullet stepping down, choosing to step down, just before a disciplinary hearing. What affect would discipline on him have on his pension? I mean, nowhere else in America can you get discipline and then still get full benefits? It`s like getting fired before your pension kicks in.
STEPHEN WELLINGHORST, FMR. JUDGE, PASSAIC COUNTY: Well, Nancy, the problem with these types of proceedings is that they`re run by all his brethren. It means that other judges oversee each other. There`s only self-governing by themselves. There`s no outside agencies to look at them and see what`s going on, so it has the inherent problems that he can retire, keep his full pension and benefits and ride off into the sunset.
GRACE: I`m looking right now at some of the requirements to be on this commission to determine whether the judge can walk Scot free and we pay for his retirement. Joining me, Congressman Ted Poe, former judge out of Harris County, Texas. Judge Poe, thank you for being with us tonight. This says three of the members have to be judges, one on an appellate court, on circuit court and on the district court. So, basically -- no offense to you three gentlemen judges, but, basically a bunch of other judges got together and decided to give him his pension, regardless of how he behaved on the bench.
CONGRESSMAN TED POE, FMR JUDGE, HARRIS CO: No question about it. It`s the good old boy network at its worst. I`m sure these judges said, look, retire as soon as you can before the hearing, then we`ll make sure you get your pension, and we`ll take care of you. So the judges continue to abuse the system and abuse this particular case.
GRACE: $118,502. That`s a pretty penny. Out to Sacha Zimmerman. Sacha, take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PALUMBO: Madam, I can`t read your lips.
STRANGULATION VICTIM: He broke my voice box.
PALUMBO: Didn`t I have the same problem with you last week? Did you see my last week?
STRANGULATION VICTIM: Yes.
PALUMBO: You couldn`t talk then. You`re getting worse instead of better. Do I make you nervous?
STRANGULATION VICTIM: No.
PALUMBO: No.
What is your name and address sir?
VICTIM: Ah, ah.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He got a speech impediment.
PALUMBO: That`s why she`s here isn`t it? You`re not just sitting there to look pretty. You`re here to tell me
VICTIM`S NEIGHBOR: I know. I thought he was trying to pronounce his name. His name is.
PALUMBO: OK, but try it. It might be good exercise for you. Let me here you say your name.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That is the former judge Palumbo speaking to someone who has had their voice box crushed and then another victim with a speech impairment mocking them in court, and now Palumbo, this commission, this judicial commission, they dropped the disciplinary hearing so this judge by default gets his full pension. Out to Sacha Zimmerman, "Reader`s Digest," didn`t this judge make one of the worst judges in the country list?
ZIMMERMAN: Yeah, he did. He won our broken gavel award. It`s not just because of that case. That`s the most dramatic incident so far, but the truth is, that capped a career of abusing victims of domestic violence. As you heard in that tape, he was clearly just making fun of a woman whose voice box had been crushed by her estranged husband. I guess the good news here is that this guy is off the bench, but really, what it just shows is as you were talking about with the star chamber, it`s so difficult to get judges off the bench. What we need to do is just put as much of a spotlight on these guys as possible.
GRACE: To Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst. You know, for the longest time I so looked up to judges. I clerked for a judge. I practiced before them all the time. The public puts their trust in judges, and now this, Bethany.
MARSHALL: Well, see, here`s the problem. It`s some judges, not all, but a few are what I would call offender identified. What I mean by that is that when a perpetrator and a victim come into courtroom, the judge is more identified with the perpetrator because of their own personal conflicts, their problems, or whatever. Then you add the fact that he is a sadist, and it makes a really bad combination.
GRACE: Take a listen to what this judge had to say in court. PS, you are paying his $120,000 pension right now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PALUMBO: Find yourself a woman that wants you. You`re a handsome guy. You`re a handsome guy. Stand on a corner long enough, they`re like buses. They`ll pass every five minutes. You`ll find one who`s going to like you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Back to the star chamber. Let`s kick it off with Congressman Ted Poe out of Texas. Judge, what do you think as a long-time sitting judge should be done in a case like this one?
POE: Well, of course, the best step was he left the bench. Now, the circumstances under which he left the bench, he quit rather than faced the music, so he has abused the system and the victim as well. He is getting $120,000 for the rest of his life. I think the victim ought to get part of his retirement because he is responsible for what -
GRACE: Good idea, Judge Poe.
POE: He is responsible for the condition that she`s in. You know, that`s really what ought to happen. He ought to get -- she ought to get part of his retirement.
GRACE: To Judge Brogdon, can you top that one, Judge Brogdon.
BROGDON: I would agree with Judge Poe. I think that.
GRACE: I`m not letting you out that easy. I`m not going to let you just agree.
BROGDON: You know, this is a classic example of putting the wrong person under a robe and with lots of authority. So it`s a bad situation, and now it`s over in terms of for the judge.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She had a sensitivity level of minus 10 as far as I`m concerned. The way he was talking to my sister is inexcusable. You are a public official. You are here to serve the public. He did not serve my sister.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back. A judge that turned a deaf ear to our guest, Yvette Cade, letting your husband burn her alive. Stepped out just before a disciplinary proceeding. Judge Palumbo, you are in contempt, even though you are soaking up $120,000 a year paid by the taxpayers. To Judge Wellinghorst, what`s an alternative?
WELLINGHORST: Well, Nancy, I don`t know if there really is an alternative for him at this point, but I`ll tell you, when you become a new judge, there are two things that are pounded into you. Number one, take domestic violence very seriously or what could happen is exactly what happened here. And, number two, your demeanor on the bench is very, very important. He failed on both points. He is a disgrace.
GRACE: I have to agree with you on this one. To you, Renee Rockwell, how many judges like this do trial lawyers see all the time?
RENEE ROCKWELL: Fortunately, not too many. I just think that he is a bad example and he has been exposed.
GRACE: Eleanor?
DIXON: I have to say that I haven`t seen too many like that either, and it`s true that you have to take domestic violence seriously.
GRACE: You two are lying through your teeth because you have to go back in court on Monday morning in front of these judges, and you don`t want to rat them out. What about it, Steve Greenberg, do you got the backbone to admit there are a lot of judges like this on the bench?
GREENBERG: Well, I think most judges try and be good, but we do see them. They belong in traffic court, and when they do this, good riddance and good-bye.
GRACE: I believe they belong at home doing legal research online. I want to give you Yvette`s Cade`s web site, the victim that lived not only through an abusive husband, but through her encounter with Judge Palumbo. It is yvettecadefund.org. Thank you Ms. Cade for being with us tonight.
Tonight, we remember Army Specialist David Babineau, 25, second tour of duty, joined the military straight out of high school leaving behind a loving family, widow, and three children. David Babineau, American hero. Thank you to my guests, Ms. Cade and Dominick Dunne and to you for being with us. Nancy Grace signing off for tonight. See you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then, good night, friend.
END
