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Your World Today

U.S. Marks Five Years Since Terror Attacks; Afghanistan: After Toppling the Taliban

Aired September 11, 2006 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's in your neighborhood. For the death squads...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JIM CLANCY, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: How September 11th changed the lives of ordinary Iraqis, and who they blame for the violence that plagues their country today.

HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: And Islamophobia. British-Muslims say they're dealing with prejudice and hatred in the aftermath of the attacks.

Hello and welcome to our report broadcast around the world on this, the fifth anniversary of September 11th.

I'm Hala Gorani.

CLANCY: I'm Jim Clancy.

Join us as we take a look back at that painful day and how its impact is still being felt in the United States, Iraq and Afghanistan.

Five years ago this hour, the financial markets on Wall Street shutting down.

GORANI: Noon Eastern, as we look back on events, our viewers in the U.S. will see a small notice on the screens of what was happening minute by minute on that day.

CLANCY: Right. And about now, Los Angeles International Airport was being evacuated. Within minutes, San Francisco's airport would also be shut down.

GORANI: Now, that was around 15 minutes past the hour, the same time on this day five years ago that officials announced the border with Canada and Mexico was on its highest state of alert.

CLANCY: All right.

We're going to begin in New York, where mourners at Ground Zero fell silent four times throughout this morning, marking the exact time each plane crashed into the World Trade Center and the moments that each of the two towers collapsed. President George W. Bush joined firefighters and city police in honoring the thousands who lost their lives.

Allan Chernoff joins us now from New York with more on what has been happening at Ground Zero -- Allan.

ALLAN CHERNOFF, CNN SR. CORRESPONDENT: Thank you, Jim.

A very touching annual ceremony still going on all morning long. Spouses and partners of the lost have been reading the names, all 2,749 names. A true reminder of the horrific loss of life five years ago today.

People also...

CLANCY: Excuse me, Allan. Excuse me, Allan. I apologize for interrupting.

We're looking at a live picture. President Bush has moved on.

This is Shanksville, Pennsylvania. This is where Flight 93 came down. The passengers thought to have forced their way into the cockpit and wrestled with the hijackers of that flight. It was perhaps headed to some target in Washington.

Let's listen in.

Hundreds of family members and friends looking on. The president had delayed this appearance at Shanksville to allow all of the family members to get there, alongside the flags flying at half staff.

Just one of the many ceremonies this day marking five years since the September 11th tragedies there in Pennsylvania, in Washington, and at Ground Zero, in New York City.

Once again, we go back to Allan.

I apologize. I wanted to show that to everyone live as it happened. The president laying a wreath there.

But you certainly had many ceremonies at Ground Zero as well.

CHERNOFF: Exactly, Jim. In fact, yesterday, the president did lay a wreath right here at Ground Zero in one of the reflecting pools. There are two, actually at the footsteps of where the two towers had stood. And right now, family members are still laying flowers in those reflection pools. They've been filling up as the names have been announced.

Earlier today, former mayor Rudolph Giuliani spoke.

Let's have a listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUDY GIULIANI, FMR. NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: Five years from the date of the attack that changed our world, we've come back to remember the valor of those we've lost, those who innocently went to work that day, and the brave souls who went in after them. We also come to be every mindful of the courage of those who grieve and the light that still shines in their hearts.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHERNOFF: Certainly, a day that brings so much pain back to the surface. Pain that so many people have been living with for five years now -- Jim.

CLANCY: Allan, of course there is pain with the relatives that are there at Ground Zero, but all across the city give us an idea. Many New Yorkers in the past have said they were simply wai waiting for the next attack. Still feeling very much like the target.

CHERNOFF: Jim, no question about that. As a matter of fact, even this morning we felt a sense of that.

My morning commute into Penn Station, one of the main train stations in New York City, there was a scare there, a suitcase left. The police closed off one of the main entrances and they investigated. It turned out to be a suitcase filled with clothing, but that is not so unusual here in New York City. The city remains very much on guard five years after.

CLANCY: Allan Chernoff, reporting to us there live from Ground Zero.

Thank you.

GORANI: All right.

Well, from New York City we go down south to Washington, D.C., and the Pentagon, where 184 lives were lost in the third attack on that fateful day. With the U.S. vice president by his side, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld reflected on the grief of a nation, grief he says soon turned into resolve.

Let's bring in Barbara Starr at the Pentagon for more on this, the fifth anniversary of 9/11, and the mood at the Pentagon this day -- Barbara.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Hala, it is a very somber mood, of course. Five years later, five years ago at this hour, we were all standing in this very spot behind me, watching the Pentagon still burn. One hundred eighty-four people losing their lives in the attack on this building.

And just a short while ago, as you say, Vice President Cheney, Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld commemorating the occasion in a very somber ceremony with family members attending from those who lost their lives here. One of the speakers representing the U.S. military was General Peter Pace, the chairman of the Joints Chiefs of Staff.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) GEN. PETER PACE, CHAIRMAN, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: Since that day some five years ago, over 1.3 million Americans have served our country in Afghanistan, in Iraq and in the Gulf region. None of them wanted to die for their country, but all have been willing to do so.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: Hala, General Pace going on to say what is a very sad known fact to many members of the military: almost as many members of the military having now lost their lives in Iraq as Americans dying on that day on 9/11. And it is a journey of five years for the U.S. military.

We want to tell you about a young Marine you will never meet now, Lance Corporal Colin Wolfe. He died just a few days ago in Iraq. A short time from now, on this hill over here at Arlington National Cemetery, he will be laid to rest by his parents, his family and his friends.

Lance Corporal Colin Wolfe was 18 years old when was killed in Iraq a few days ago, and when you think about it, Hala, on the morning of 9/11 he was a 13-year-old little boy who told his parents he wanted to be a Marine -- Hala.

GORANI: All right.

Barbara Starr at the Pentagon.

Thanks very much.

And we're going to be talking about the war in Iraq, the war in Afghanistan, and all those military operations that came after 9/11 a bit later in our broadcast.

For now, though, these figures for you. More Americans are blaming the White House for the September 11th attacks than they did four years ago. That's according to a new CNN poll.

It says almost half of the people surveyed blamed the Bush administration "a moderate amount" or "a great deal for the tragedy." But in 2002, just under a third of respondents assigned blame to their own government.

Now, the administration of former president Bill Clinton came in for its share of criticism, as well. Forty-one percent of those polled said Mr. Clinton could have done more to prevent the attacks before he left office in 2001 -- Jim.

CLANCY: Well, it was widely predicted, and hours before the anniversary of the September 11th attacks, al Qaeda's number two leader called on Muslims to intensify their resistance against the U.S. It was all contained in a videotaped message posted on the Internet.

In that, Ayman al-Zawahiri issued a threat, and he warned that new events are on the way. Not the first time he's said that. He also said coalition troops in Iraq and Afghanistan are, in his words, "doomed."

GORANI: Let's talk about Afghanistan. A suicide bomber targeted a funeral for a provincial governor there who himself had been killed in a suicide attack. Police say at least six people were killed. The blast was near a tent where more than 1,000 people had gathered for the funeral.

CLANCY: Britain's prime minister has a little bit of cold water poured on his efforts to try to foster Middle East peace. Tony Blair greeted by protests during a visit to Lebanon's capital, Beirut. Demonstrators blame Britain for not calling for an immediate cease- fire in Israel's war with Hezbollah.

Troops and riot police fought to keep the protesters away from Mr. Blair as he met with Lebanese prime minister Fouad Siniora.

GORANI: Also, in other news, the shuttle Atlantis has docked with the International Space Station. The six astronauts floated aboard to greet the station's three crew members. The shuttle brought with it what will be the first new addition to the station since December 2002, a massive truss with two attached solar wings.

CLANCY: All right.

Let's go back live now to Shanksville, Pennsylvania, where U.S. President George W. Bush shaking the hands of some of the people that have gathered there, some family members of the victims who were aboard Flight 93. The president pausing, making a personal effort here to share with a lot of the people about what he has spoken about, their grief, as well as their courage this day.

We're going to be back with more of our coverage of the fifth anniversary of September 11th.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): After 9/11, the U.S. started wars in many countries. Some say it's a war for justice, but as a Japanese in Japan, I find it scary that there are so many wars continuously. That's one thing which has changed in the world.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I don't feel safe, but more anxious. I think the incident has aroused people's attention and heightened the sensitivity. Before September 11th, people weren't as sensitive. But we feel more threat nowadays.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I completely disagree with America's action after 9/11. I feel that America is randomly picking enemies, trying to find scapegoats.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GORANI: Welcome back to this special edition of YOUR WORLD TODAY.

CLANCY: On a day when Americans are remembering the events of September 11th, we're taking an effort here to look at how the rest of the world views America five years later.

Now, in gatherings big and small around the world, people are remembering those attacks five years ago.

GORANI: Well, hundreds of American troops stationed in Kabul, Afghanistan, held a moment of silence. Their commander -- you see it there -- laying a wreath and vowing to continue fighting terrorism.

CLANCY: Meantime, at the U.S. Embassy in Canberra, Australian Prime Minister John Howard restated his country's commitment to the war on terror. He said 9/11 was an attack on the values of the world.

GORANI: Well, and in keeping with the wishes of victims' relatives, Britain is holding a low-key ceremony outside the U.S. Embassy in London to remember the 67 Britons that were killed in the attacks that day.

CLANCY: Now, many people believe that September 11th changed the United States and changed the world forever. But one analyst says what's remarkable is really how little things changed since that day.

The managing editor of "Foreign Policy" magazine says the forces that led to the attacks already in the making since the U.S. emerged as the world's only superpower.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAM DOBSON, MANAGING EDITOR, "FOREIGN POLICY": I think we need to recognize that this is a very dangerous situation that we find ourselves in today. There's no question that these questions we're asking about international politics really matter, and they can come home in a terrible way, on a beautiful morning. There's really no way that you can now try to imagine yourself being somehow immune from this, but in looking at it in a wider way, I think what we need to look at is look at the problems that exist in the Muslim world itself and ask ourselves whether or not we're making the situation better or worse.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GORANI: Well, in Afghanistan, things certainly did change after 9/11 when the repressive Taliban were toppled following a U.S.-led invasion. The country is now, in theory, at least, a democracy. But in recent months, the Taliban have been making quite a comeback. Earlier, we spoke to Afghan foreign minister Abdullah Abdullah.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ABDULLAH ABDULLAH, FMR. AFGHAN FOREIGN MINISTER: As an Afghan citizen I am concerned because of the growing threat by the Taliban, though I agree that still it is not a strategic threat. But as long as Taliban and al Qaeda is capable of receiving help from somewhere and having sanctuary somewhere outside Afghanistan, the problem in Afghanistan will -- will sustain. And then, that will prevent us from utilizing the great opportunities which have been provided by Afghans working together in the international community, supporting us in the best interest of Afghanistan from prosperity, bringing about the good government, and establishing further peace and stability throughout the country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CLANCY: Monday, even as U.S. troops gathered for a 9/11 memorial service in eastern Afghanistan, their base came under fire.

Senior International Correspondent Nic Robertson was there. He joins us now from the Pakistan-Afghan border.

Nic, looking at the situation there, how does the military feel about it? How do they see five years on after toppling the Taliban?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim, they still feel they are going after the Taliban here. They still feel they're going after al Qaeda and elements of al Qaeda just in this border area.

They say that they know that there are Arabs, they know that there are Chechens, they know that there are Uzbeks who they're -- who they're fighting in this particular area. It wasn't clear who fired at the troops gathered right here a couple of hours ago, as they gathered for that memorial service. They were going to hold a minute of silence when a rocket was fired, 107-millimeter rocket.

They ran for cover. Five more rockets were fired. None hit the base, but the troops returned fire with their 105-millimeter Howitzer.

That, again, targeted at the points of origin. They said they were fired at from a number of locations. It wasn't clear to them if they were able to hit any of the -- any of the people firing at them. But there were no casualties on the base.

And a little later they regrouped right at dusk. Then, perhaps, a little safer, because they say their attackers don't fire at night. And they did hold that memorial service. They did have a minute of silence, and the bagpipes were played, and the soldiers here really felt that they were showing their attackers just that they weren't going to be beaten down when missiles were fired.

The sense of the commanders here, though, is, Jim, that their fight still goes on, but they put their fight in different terms. They're fighting to win the support of the people here for the government of Afghanistan, they say, so they can help bring stability to the area -- Jim.

CLANCY: Some people say they're surprised by the resurgence of the Taliban, and with it elements of al Qaeda. Others say hardly.

What are the factors that have enabled the Taliban to make this kind of a comeback where now they have major battling raging with organized coalition troops?

ROBERTSON: Well, I think the Taliban have several elements, if you will, that they're using here, Jim. One of them, we're told by many sources here, is that they're getting money from the drug production here, from the poppy (INAUDIBLE). Cultivation has been up -- gone up massively this year, 60 percent. About $3 billion are made here, half of the country's GDP.

The Taliban are getting money. They've been studying their tactics. They've been building in numbers over the years. They've been able to do it from basing themselves in Pakistan, and they are all about trying to drive out the Western troops here, and overthrow the government and install their one in Kabul -- Jim.

CLANCY: All right. Nic Robertson reporting us there, live from eastern Afghanistan.

As always, Nic, thank you very much -- Hala.

GORANI: All right. We're going to show our viewers here live pictures of Ground Zero, there in lower Manhattan, with a choir there, singing, remembering the attacks on that fateful morning.

Let's listen in, and then we'll take a short break. You're with YOUR WORLD TODAY.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: And hello, everyone. I'm Tony Harris at the CNN Center in Atlanta.

More of YOUR WORLD TODAY in just a couple of minutes.

But first, a check of stories making headlines here in the United States.

Five years after the 9/11 terror attacks, Americans pause to remember those who died in the national tragedy. This is the scene right now in Shanksville, Pennsylvania, where United Airlines Flight 93 crashed on this day five years ago.

Among the ceremonies, a wreath laying in honor of the 40 passengers and crew members who lost their lives. President and Mrs. Bush among those paying tribute. The victims of Flight 93 are considered American heroes, battling with the hijackers to try to regain control of the aircraft before it slammed into a field. The World Trade Center, the bullseye of the attacks. Families of those who died there are gathered at Ground Zero throughout the day. A live picture. And "Taps."

Four separate moments of silence were observed there this morning. One for each of the airline crashes, and one for the collapse of each tower. Families also read the names of loved ones who died.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUDY GIULIANI, FMR. NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: Five years from the date of the attack that changed our world, we've come back to remember the valor of those we've lost, those who innocently went to work that day, and the brave souls who went in after them. We also come to be ever mindful of the courage of those who grieve and the light that still shines in their hearts.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: At the Pentagon, Vice President Dick Cheney and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld led a memorial service this morning. A moment of silence was observed at 9:37 Eastern Time. That's the exact time an American Airlines plane slammed into the Pentagon, killing 184 people. Rumsfeld, who is recovering from shoulder surgery, says Americans should remember their sacrifice.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: The highest tribute we can pay to them is to commit ourselves to doing everything possible to fight the extremists, wherever they are, to making every effort to stay united as a country, and to give our truly outstanding men and women in uniform all that they need to succeed. And, I must add, to always give our troops the benefit of the doubt. They deserve it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: Our primetime coverage begins at 8:00 Eastern. CNN's Paula Zahn is live from Ground Zero with crucial questions that linger years later.

At 9:00 Eastern, Wolf Blitzer leads our CNN coverage of the president's primetime address.

That's followed by "LARRY KING LIVE" from Ground Zero.

At 10:00 Eastern, Anderson Cooper live from Afghanistan. He will have a first-hand look at what's really happening in the war on terror since 9/11.

As the nation remembers the 9/11 attacks, trouble was suspected in the skies this morning, and NORAD, North America Air Defense, moved quickly to divert a plane. United Flight 351 from Atlanta to San Francisco was diverted to Dallas-Fort Worth. This after authorities found an unclaimed Blackberry on board. Adding to the concern, officials also found an unclaimed backpack. Transportation officials found no safety threat. Flight 351 landed safely in Dallas and then was cleared to fly on to San Francisco.

Hurricane Florence is walloping -- walloping Bermuda today. First reports suggest trees and power lines are down, leaving thousands without electricity.

The islands were spared a direct hit, though, with Florence's eye passing about 40 miles west of the island. Forecasters say the storm should veer out to sea, sparing the U.S. East Coast.

That gets us to Jacqui Jeras in the CNN weather center.

Hi, Jacqui.

JACQUI JERAS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Hey, Tony.

(WEATHER REPORT)

JERAS: Back to you.

HARRIS: Thank you.

Just another reminder that CNN is your hurricane headquarters.

CNN's extensive coverage of the anniversary of the September 11th attacks continues. Recovery at Ground Zero, everything from removing debris, to guarding hundreds of pounds of silver. A port authority police officer who was there from day one is in the NEWSROOM at 1:00 Eastern.

Meantime, we rejoin YOUR WORLD TODAY. Jim Clancy talking with a Irish journalist who witnessed the terror in New York City five years ago firsthand.

I'm Tony Harris.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

CLANCY: ... five years ago. Here's just part of a report filed back then by our own Christiane Amanpour.

Give it a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): In the wake of the worst terrorist attack anywhere, on a scale Western leaders say they had never even contemplated, newspapers talk of a declaration of war on America. Politicians from the world's democracies say that today everyone is American.

TONY BLAIR, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: We all agree that this attack is an attack not only on America, but on the free and democratic world.

... demands our complete and united condemnation, our determination to bring those responsible to justice.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And we stand firm, we stand committed.

AMANPOUR: One after the other, world leaders stood up in sympathy and solidarity. President Vladimir Putin saying that Russia will observe a moment of silence on Thursday. German Chancellor Gerhard Schroder says that Germany stands with America and everyone who is for peace and freedom around the world. The same messages came from all European capitals, from Japanese leaders and the Chinese president, as well.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CLANCY: Conor O'Cleary, formerly with the "Irish Times," who lived down there by the World Trade Center, witnessed it all. Also witnessed, perhaps, how international sentiment has changed over the course of the last five years. How do you see it?

CONOR O'CLEARY, FORMER EDITOR OF "IRISH TIMES": Absolutely, Jim. Within three days, the whole of Ireland closed down in solidarity with the United States. Shops closed, newspapers closed. But over time, I found myself telling my foreign editor on the telephone, about a year later, I think we're being told lies by the White House. And I think the White House and the U.S. administration lost the high moral ground by diverting resources from Afghanistan into Iraq. And it's been pointed out here that the number of soldiers under NATO command in Afghanistan are less than the number of soldiers that were in Northern Ireland to deal with the troubles there, in a smaller area.

And I would just like to add one thing to your report from Afghanistan. I visited Afghanistan under Soviet occupation, and I remember talking to a schoolteacher there who said if the mujahideen win, they're going to destroy secular life in this country. And now the supreme irony is that the mujahideen did win with American support. And, now, NATO is struggling to maintain some sort of a secular life for Afghans, and the defeat of the mujahideen once more.

CLANCY: All right, all of these things -- Iraq, Afghanistan, the situations there -- certainly changing over the course of the last five years, certainly weighing on U.S. public opinion, and the opinion about the U.S. around the world. What is the feeling in Europe, there in Ireland, for what the United States can do right to fix it?

O'CLEARY: Well, I think elect a new president would be the answer here. President Bush is very unpopular. The war is very unpopular here. There has been some agitation about the fact that American troops are using Shannon Airport en route to Iraq, and there have been some protests about that.

But, you know, Ireland has a special relationship with the United States, and people here love America, they love its politics and its culture. So, there's a feeling more of sadness rather than anger, I would say, at what is seen as an unfortunate diversion from Afghanistan into Iraq, into an unnecessary war, where the American administration has lost their high moral ground.

CLANCY: All right, Conor O'Cleary, editor -- former editor and correspondent for the "Irish Times," thank you very much.

We're going to take a short break. We'll be back right after this.

GORANI: Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CLANCY: Welcome back to this September 11th edition of YOUR WORLD TODAY. I'm Jim Clancy.

GORANI: I'm Hala Gorani. U.S. president George W. Bush and First Lady Laura Bush are traveling to the sites of the September 11th attacks five years ago. They laid a wreath and visited with relatives of those killed in Pennsylvania. That's when United Flight 93 crashed into a field. Several passengers stormed the cockpit during the hijacking to try to overpower the terrorists.

CLANCY: Thousands gathered where the World Trade Center once stood in New York City. Friends, family and total strangers fell silent four times, marking the jetliner crashes, as well as the collapse of both of the towers. A solemn ceremony was also held at the White House.

GORANI: And outside of Washington, mourners honored the 184 people who died when a plane slammed into the Pentagon. U.S. President Dick Cheney and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld led the solemn commemoration. Rumsfeld said the grief of the nation soon hardened into resolve after the attacks, and that 9/11 would never change the freedom or the spirit of America, in Dick Cheney's words.

CLANCY: Now changing our focus. In Iraq, some say they paid a very high price, indeed, for an incident that happened thousands of miles away, and had nothing to do with them. How did September the 11th change the lives of ordinary people in Iraq?

CNN's Michael Holmes sat down and talked with a cross-section of Iraqis. Among them, a chemistry professor and a women's activist.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. MUNJED AL NAIEB, CHEMISTRY PROFESSOR: It's like an earthquake. This earthquake happened in the United States, but you know, the shock came to our country. Why we get the things after that? Why we pay all these things, I mean...

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Why have you paid the price?

AL NAIEB: Yes, of what happened on 11 September.

HOLMES: When you hear Bush say that Iraq is the battleground on the war on terror...

AL NAIEB: It's an invitation for the terrorists to come here. You don't see that? I see it like that, actually. An invitation.

SHROUQ AL ABAYCHI, WOMEN'S AFFAIRS ACTIVIST: Yes, in some -- somehow, I feel like it is an invitation. But on the other hand, I feel kind of -- really very bad feeling that President Bush repeating and focusing on war against terror in Iraq is to make America and American people secure and safety. What about Iraqi people? Why do we have to pay the price for this security of the Americans? We have the same right to be secure, to have a secure life, just like any other American citizen.

HOLMES: What went wrong from the time the Americans arrived to now?

AL NAIEB: They depended on the wrong people.

HOLMES: They depended on the wrong people?

AL NAIEB: Yes.

AL ABAYCHI: They trust (INAUDIBLE). The people that used to say to any Americans' project or suggestion, that's great, that's what we need. Actually, it's not.

HOLMES: You came back here after the war. Did you have great hopes then?

AL ABAYCHI: Actually, yes.

HOLMES: What went wrong? What went wrong? All that hope you had when you came back. What went wrong?

AL ABAYCHI: Actually, maybe I would go back to a very simple and traditional opinion, that you can't build a democracy by tanks and bombs.

But even this fact, we -- the people, the Iraqi people, we wanted to ignore it. OK, with tanks, with bombs, with armies, with multinational forces, we will have better life. But the (INAUDIBLE) of Iraq as a front, a first front of fighting terror, that means that it's an international, a world war, a world war on one country, as a field. For all kind of conflicts, for all kind of interest, that's too much for Iraq.

HOLMES: Who do you blame for the insurgents in your neighborhood, for the death squads, for al Qaeda being here? Who do you blame for that?

AL NAIEB: We blame the United States.

HOLMES: You blame the United States? AL NAIEB: Yes.

Actually I want to ask President Bush, himself, he say that we will make Iraq an example for the democracy. Did he succeed in that? I don't believe. I think we are in a very bad situation, and just don't know what will happen.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GORANI: All right, let's bring in Michael Holmes, live for Baghdad. Thanks for being with us, Michael. I always find it fascinating to hear from ordinary people. It gives you a sense of what defines the zeitgeist in Iraq right now. Tell me, what do Iraqis say, when you speak to them? What do they tell you should happen now for their country to get better?

HOLMES: Well, it's a good point. I mean, a lot of the Iraqis, the thinking Iraqis, if you like, they say, we would love the Americans to just go and leave us alone.

However, they say, they can't go now. It's a lose-lose situation for many Iraqis. If the Americans went now, this country really would fall apart, and very quickly.

So, they say, the Americans now have to stay and try to fix what, they say, the Americans broke. The lady there, Shrouq, who I spoke with, she says, she cringes when she hears George Bush say that Iraq has become a haven for terrorists, because she says, well, it wasn't until the Americans came here. Saddam Hussein was ideologically, diametrically opposed to al Qaeda and other terrorist organizations -- Hala.

GORANI: All right, Michael Holmes, live in Baghdad, thanks so much for that really interesting conversation there with that group of people.

And we're going to have a lot more ahead on YOUR WORLD TODAY.

CLANCY: That's right. Still ahead, we turn to Britain, which has had its own problems with terrorism.

GORANI: And the growing concern among Muslims there about the response to that. Some feel there's been a rise in what might be called, and what some are calling, "Islamophobia." We'll take a closer look when we return.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(SINGING)

GORANI: This morning, in Manhattan, a fire house there commemorating the events of 9/11. The president, George W. Bush, visited this fire house, and there you have one of the firefighters singing "God Bless America." Many of them responded to the 9/11 attacks and many of them, of course, lost their lives that day, five years ago today. Engine 15, ladder 18 is what we're seeing there. (SINGING)

GORANI: Well, in July of last year, Britain got some sense of the body blow dealt to the U.S. on September 11, 2001. Although many in the Muslim community were as horrified as everyone else, the London bombings further solidified a growing fear and rejection of Muslims in that country.

Mallika Kapur has that story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are radical elements that are in our midst, and they are engaging with our young people .

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: People's attitudes have changed, both from the British Muslims and the English community.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The fact that you're a Muslim now is on the top of your mind, the fact that you are now different to the rest of the people is on top of your mind.

MALLIKA KAPUR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Three British Muslims, three different experiences of living through the war on terror. The horror that rocked New York five years ago shattered London last year on July 7th. Fifty-people were killed, blown up by Muslim suicide bombers.

Two months later, Hammasa Kohistani because the first Muslim woman to be crowned Miss England.

HAMMASA KOHISTANI, MISS ENGLAND 2005: Even when I went to the beautician to get my hair blow-dried, they would ask me, oh, what do you do now? And I would say, oh, I'm Miss England. And then she'd look at me twice, and say, but you're not English.

And then I'd say, yes, I'm a Muslim, too. And the shock on people's faces every time they realized that, oh, but you're not one of us. That was the sort of reaction that I got.

KAPUR (on camera): Many of Britain's million and a half Muslims say the sense of rising Islamophobia, rising hostility toward the community, and often just appearing to be Muslim can be a problem.

(voice-over): Fatema Dossa tells us she's been attacked on an underground train.

FATEMA DOSSA, BRITISH MUSLIM: I think It was very much because of the fact that I was wearing my hijab, which is the veil, and that, you know, told you straight away that this person is a Muslim.

KAPUR: According to a recent poll, one in six Londoners admits to changes seats on the bus or train to avoid passengers they believe may be a Muslim.

Islamophobia has a divisive effect even within the Muslim community.

Hanif Qadir, a youth worker, says it leads to insecurity among young British Muslims, making them easy prey to extremists.

HANIF QADIR, YOUTH WORKER: the young people, when they're hearing messages from, you know, your radical elements, and (INAUDIBLE) on TV people like Abu Abdullah and Abu Hamza type of people, and they're coming back, and then saying, looks, this is a clear war, Islam, and every Muslim is being targeted. And it's like-- it's testament to the fact that if you just witness what's going on now, the young people actually start to believe this, you know, and, it's a field day for these guys, for recruitment.

KAPUR: The threat of extremism has been keeping British police on their toes. It's meant frequent raids and multiple arrests of Muslims, some of whom are quickly cleared of any crimes, which has only served to fuel Islamophobia in Britain.

Many British Muslims say they are fed up with the hostility, the attacks and the slurs. All they want is to get on with their lives, whether as a community worker, ordinary citizen or a beauty queen.

Mallika Kapur, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GORANI: Well, our next guest says there's a historical struggle under way within Islam, pitting extremists against moderates, and the clerical establishment. It's a crucial time, he says, for the more than one billion Muslims around the world.

We are joined from our Los Angeles bureau by Reza Aslan, author of "No God, but God: The Origins, Evolution and future of Islam."

Five years after 9/11, Reza Aslan, who is winning the battle within Islam?

REZA ASLAN, AUTHOR: Boy, that's a tough question. Well, you know, if we're talking about the propaganda battle, then I think there's no question that the extremists are winning it.

You heard even just today, Zawahiri once again came out and warned Muslims around the world that their values, their traditions, their very identity and beliefs are under attack by the West, that this is not some kind of war on terror, but a war on Islam.

And unfortunately, I think because of some of our foreign policy choices, some of the rhetoric that has come out of our government here in the United States, there are a large number of Muslims who actually believe that that is the case.

GORANI: Now you wrote in an op ed piece there in the "Boston Globe" yesterday I believe, and you said something quite interesting. Despite the common perception in Europe and the U.S. that Osama bin Laden's primary target is the West, it's actually something within Islam that he fights. It's neither Christians nor Jews. Can you explain that?

ASLAN: Yes, this is something that I think most Westerners would find shocking. The primary target of these extremists, these jihadists, bin Laden and his ilk, is not the West, or Jews or Christians, what al Qaeda terms the "far enemy", but rather, what they refer to as the "near enemy".

In other words, this is a puritanical sect. And like any group of puritans, their primary agenda is to purify their religion of what they see as its cultural religious innovations and to return it to some kind of unadulterated and frankly, purely imaginary past.

So what they want to do is essentially force the Muslim world to adopt their ideas, their versions, their puritanical form of Islam. And the cost of that is death. And that is why I think the Muslim victims of al Qaeda, so vastly outnumber the non Muslims.

GORANI: Let me just jump in there, because we really have to wrap it up. I'm afraid we're running out of time.

But why are some -- and this is what many people in the West ask, why are some second, sometimes third generation Muslim young men, why are they attracted to this extremist misinterpretation of religious scripture that calls on them to conduct suicide bombings, for instance? In London, Madrid? Why?

ASLAN: Yes, I think, particularly in Europe, you are seeing the result of this alienation that you just talked about, in the previous report.

I think a lot of younger Muslims who were born in France, in the U.K., and yet, who feel neither British or French nor Pakistani or South Asian, and are looking for something to fill that sense of alienation, both religious and social alienation that they feel. They can't find it in their mosques, they can't fin it in their parents, they can't find it in the political structure.

They can find it on the Internet. And I think that the reason bin Laden has been so successful is that his message, one of radical individualism, one that says, your political and religious leaders have nothing for you, they don't understand you, they don't understand what you're going through, that is something that becomes quite appealing for a lot of dispossessed and alienated young people.

GORANI: All right. Quite a struggle there within that faith. Thank you, Reza Aslan, author of "No God But God" and a journalist as well. Thank you very much.

ASLAN: My pleasure.

GORANI: We're going to take a short break here on YOUR WORLD TODAY. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GORANI: Okay. Ceremonies taking place around the world on the five-year anniversary of the September 11th attacks.

CLANCY: But you know, I think we've said enough. I think that these are events that really speak for themselves.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We also gathered to reaffirm our commitment both as friends and allies of the people of the United States, but also as citizens of the world, to maintain the fight against terrorism.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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