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Nancy Grace

Police Continue Search for Trenton Duckett

Aired September 12, 2006 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, GUEST HOST: Tonight, the desperate search for a missing 2-year-old Florida boy. He`s tucked into his crib for the night by his mother, then disappears while she`s in the next room watching a movie. A mysterious clue -- the bedroom window screen is sliced open. His mother now confirmed dead from a self-inflicted gunshot. Tonight, the search for Trenton Duckett.
Also tonight, the exclusive, shocking and candid O.J. Simpson tapes -- the latest controversy surrounding the producer behind more than 70 hours of footage of Simpson making appearances all over the country. Now the producer says he wants to use the tapes as part of the wrongful death legal battle. Tonight, he explains why, and he`s taking your calls.

But first tonight, where is little Trenton Duckett?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We still need to continue our search for Trenton. We still need to continue the efforts with the flyers. We still need to keep his picture out there because there still is this likelihood and this possibility that Trenton is with somebody.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, in tonight for Nancy Grace.

Where is Trenton Duckett? The 2-year-old vanishes from his bedroom in Leesburg, Florida, after his mother tucks him in for the night. She is now dead in an apparent suicide, and there is no sign of this little boy.

For the very latest, let`s go straight out to Marilyn Aciego, a reporter for "The Daily Commercial." She has been tracking this very sad case from the start. Marilyn, what is the latest?

MARILYN ACIEGO, "DAILY COMMERCIAL": Right now, Jane, police are still trying to reconstruct the timeline of Trenton and Melinda from 4:00 PM Saturday, August 26, until 9:00 PM Sunday, August 27, when he was reported missing. But they`ve basically reached a dead end. They have not been able to find -- you know, with Melinda -- they call Melinda`s suicide a definite setback because they`re not able to reconstruct the timeline until more people come forward.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let`s listen to what police had to say today about this case.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Two gentlemen that were with her that night between 7:00 and 9:0, and both of them were interviewed separately. One of them did take a polygraph, and the officials were satisfied with the responses. The other one was not given the polygraph due to the information they received from both of them separately.

I can confirm that neither of them saw Trenton that night, but I cannot speak as to her demeanor. They were the last ones that we know of, at this point, to see Trenton up until 4:00 PM on Saturday. I have not spoken with the grandparents. The investigators have spoken with them. I know they took out a computer, possibly a camera, some handwritten notes and other papers, but that`s all the details I`ve been provided for what they have removed from the apartment, the house, the vehicle.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re very happy to have with us tonight on the phone Captain Ginny Padgett of the Leesburg police. Thank you for joining us, ma`am. We know you are very busy. This is a very, very emotional case. So please classify and clarify from the top, what is the status of the deceased mother? Is she considered a suspect, a possible suspect? Has she been eliminated as a suspect? What can you tell us about her status?

CAPT. GINNY PADGETT, LEESBURG POLICE: At this point, we have not classified her as a suspect or classified anyone, at this point, as a suspect. We did gather items from her apartment and her grandparents` home, along with her car, and they are analyzing all that information at the lab to try and determine and create this timeline. We`re still trying to get (INAUDIBLE) Trenton for late Sunday -- or Saturday afternoon to Sunday night. And we`re hoping to get information that might establish that and possibly, hopefully, either eliminate her as any possible involvement, or it may -- maybe we`ll get information about where is Trenton. At this point, we don`t know because they are looking at all those items right now.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And Captain, what can you tell us about the gun used by her in the apparent suicide? Who did it belong to? Where did she get it?

PADGETT: It belonged -- it was a weapon that belonged to her grandfather, and that`s all the information that I have about the apparent suicide investigation on the weapon.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let`s go to our G-men. We have three former FBI men with us tonight, experts in all of this. I`d like to start out with Mike Brooks, former FBI and former D.C. police. What are they doing with that gun, Mike? Are they testing to see if that gun was used before?

MIKE BROOKS, FORMER FBI, FORMER D.C. POLICE: Well, they can go ahead and do that, but you know, it depends -- first of all, they have to find this little boy, to find out whether or not this guns plays any role in this, other than for the suicide. But creating a timeline is extremely important in this case because if she says she was somewhere with him during that time around 4:00 o`clock, then they need to go back and see if there`s any videotapes of the area that they might have been in, if there was a shopping area, those kind of things.

But developing that timeline is going to be crucial because as Captain Padgett just said, they have not -- they don`t have any suspects at all, and they`re not calling her a suspect, but they have to be looking at her extremely closely.

The other thing with the computers, what they can do is see if any e- mails were sent during that time that she said that they were out, just in helping to develop that timeline.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let`s go to another of our G-men, Harold Copus, former FBI agent and private investigator. Thank you for joining us, Harold. You know, obviously, since the mom reported the child missing 16 days ago and later committed suicide, apparently, she is key. Police obviously have to focus in on her mental state at the time this child disappeared. Would you agree?

HAROLD COPUS, FORMER FBI AGENT, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR: Oh, certainly, Jane. I think that`s just part of what goes on. You want to know her emotional state, and quite frankly, you want to know what her demeanor was at the time that 911 call was made and what happened when the police got there.

And let me mention one other thing, too, in establishing that timeline that Mike brought up. We want to look at those cell phones because if we can find out where those cell phone towers are, we can probably start piecing together maybe her location.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me go back to Marilyn Aciego, a reporter for "The Daily Commercial." Give us a sense of this timeline because it is a little confusing. She puts the child to bed at approximately 7:00 o`clock, and then she invites some friends over to watch a movie, which we have checked, it runs about an hour and 47 minutes. And then they leave, or they stay, and she discovers that this child is missing?

ACIEGO: They were still there when she discovered that the child was missing, and then she, of course, called police and told them that he was gone. And both of the gentlemen that were with her have been questioned extensively. Their answers were consistent with each other, and one of them has passed a polygraph exam.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I would think that the most fascinating thing -- and maybe we can go to Lauren Howard, our psychotherapist on this -- is how she was behaving in front of these men when she said the child was missing. In other words, was she hysterical? Was she calm? Did she behave in a suspicious manner? These two men may, in fact, hold the key.

LAUREN HOWARD, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, that would be absolutely right, except for the fact that there is a continuum of behavior that would also be legitimate. She could have been in shock. She could have been stoic because it was such an unexpected occurrence. Of she could have been hysterical. I`m not sure that how her demeanor would be at that moment would necessarily point to her culpability or not.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Captain Ginny Padgett, we are looking at the picture of a vehicle, a Mitsubishi Eclipse. What is the significance of that car?

PADGETT: We were releasing a photo of her vehicle, along with her picture and little Trenton`s picture, just to get that vehicle photo out to the public and in hopes that someone may recognize that vehicle, and...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But wouldn`t it be that if -- since there`s a 28-hour gap before the time that she reported this child missing, 28 hours where nobody apparently saw the child, if somebody spotted this car and saw it driving around, that that location could provide a key as to where she and the child went. Is that not correct?

PADGETT: Yes, ma`am. Especially if they could place Melinda and/or Trenton in that vehicle, that could help establish that timeline.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And by the way, while I have you, I understand that you did search a construction site. Did you find anything, and what are you going to search next?

PADGETT: No, nothing was found. That was the routine follow-up on some leads we had been given that apparently put Melinda and Trenton at that location at some point prior to the disappearance. But we did follow that up by doing the search, but we did not find anything out there. And they ended their searches about 11:00, 11:20 last night and that -- that area...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Where to next?

PADGETT: Right now, I don`t have any details or specifics on when they are going to be doing any further searches. We`re following up all kinds of leads, and where that may take us, as far as searches, I don`t have any details on that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Look at the beautiful photo of this little baby, 30 to 40 pounds, brown hair, brown eyes. He is a beautiful little child. This is such a tragedy, a double tragedy, a beautiful mom, a beautiful baby. And one is dead tonight, the mom, and the little boy is missing.

Psychotherapist Lauren Howard, let`s talk a little bit about what we know about this very beautiful mom and the stress she was under. She had filed for divorce this past June. It was said to be a bitter divorce. They were fighting over the custody of this child. So this child was, in essence, a pawn in their battle. They`re both young parents, 21 years old and "The Orlando Sentinel" reported that Melinda was taken into custody under the Baker Act which is a Florida law that says law enforcement can take you into custody if they think you are a danger to yourself or others for a mental health evaluation.

Now, before her death, Melinda confirmed to one of our producers that, yes, she was taken in, but downplayed it, saying it was no big deal, that she was released a short time later. What do you make of all this stress she was under?

HOWARD: Well, first of all, her being taken in for a mental health eval, who alleged a mental health problem? Was it her behavior, or was this just another ploy in this sort of bitter -- you know, there was a restraining order. I mean, the two of them were really going at it with each other. So unless I knew why she was called in for that mental health eval, it`s meaningless to me. It doesn`t tell me anything.

But there`s no question that this woman is undergoing great stress in this bitter divorce. The two of them are really going at each other. And now her child has disappeared. Is the stress because she was a party to the disappearance, or is the stress simply the stress of a mother whose child has gone missing? It`s difficult to ascertain that without her being here and without really sort of an intake of her and what her status is. All we know is that the two of them were really playing dirty, both the mother and father.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And this is such a tragedy all the way around, two families completely devastated and this little boy missing.

Let`s go to the phone lines. Christine from Virginia. Your question, ma`am?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. I was wondering, did she leave a suicide note?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: My understanding is that she did not leave a suicide note. But Marilyn Aciego, reporter for "The Daily Commercial," I also understand that she did have some writings, a diary that she kept. And apparently, police are really looking into that, hoping to get a sense of her mental state from those writings, those personal writings, correct?

ACIEGO: Yes, they did take some personal handwritten things from both her apartment and her grandparents` home, and they also took her computer and are still in the process of searching her computer to see if there`s any type of journal or diary on the computer.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, I want to go to prosecutor Holly Hughes -- she has seen it all over the years -- and give you a litany of disturbing events. And I actually have to read this because it`s so long. Apparently, this family was in turmoil for quite a while. Back in April of `05, the father, Joshua Duckett, filed a complaint against Melinda through the Department of Children and Families hotline, alleging neglect and endangerment. An investigation cleared her, important to say.

Then 10 days later, the father calls police again and accuses Melinda of threatening him with this statement, "If he would not come and talk to her, that everyone would be very sad at what was going to happen." The father reportedly told police at that time he thought Melinda would hurt their son, that she would make the baby cry to intimidate the dad when he didn`t say what she wanted to hear.

And then apparently, in a later police report, the father said that Melinda had threatened to blow something up and that he felt that she could harm the son. This apparently was reported to Department of Children and Family Services.

Your thoughts on that litany?

HOLLY HUGHES, PROSECUTOR: Well, it, sounds to me like this woman was very unstable, and she`s made threats in the past against the child. The father has reported, in fact, that when he was on the phone speaking with her and he wasn`t giving her the answers that she wanted, she would do something to the child in order to make him cry. And it sounds to me like she was holding this child over the father`s head, doing things to the baby to make the father feel bad. And clearly, this is a woman who did not mind hurting the child in order to hurt the husband as he was becoming the ex- husband.

I think she was unstable, and I think they seriously need to consider what she`s done to this child. To me, Jane, a suicide is the most selfish act you can engage in. When you have a missing child, you stay alive. You want to know what happened to your son. You`re doing everything to focus on bringing that baby home safely. And this woman took the coward`s way out and thought only of herself.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me jump in here because she is dead. She is not here to defend herself. And you heard the police say that she is not an official suspect at this point. They haven`t cleared anybody, but they haven`t ruled her in or out. They are still in the early stages of this investigation.

Let`s go to defense attorney Alan Ripka. What can you say in her defense tonight?

ALAN RIPKA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, the bottom line, so far there`s been no forensic evidence to show that she did this. There`s no witness testimony. Apparently, her estranged husband has not said that she was capable of killing, although he has said she was capable of manipulating him by making the baby cry. But I think we should not jump to conclusions. And for all we know -- and let`s pray that the baby is still alive and another family member is holding the baby in safekeeping.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And absolutely. Let us pray that that baby is alive tonight. You said it best.

To tonight`s "Case Alert." The man who apparently falsely confessed to killing JonBenet Ramsey and was later cleared as a suspect in the murder of the 6-year-old beauty queen is no longer in Boulder, Colorado., John Mark Karr extradited today to Sonoma County, where California -- California, where he is facing serious charges of child porn. Karr, a fugitive since 2001, resurfaced in Thailand, arrested last month in the Ramsey case. His DNA did not match evidence from the crime scene.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The fact that you`ve got a -- you know, a grieving mother with a missing 24-month-old, and then the fact that we have the apparent suicide two weeks into the event, we have to look at the possibility that maybe there was -- she was grieving and she couldn`t handle the stress of the event. Yes, we`re looking into that possibility, but we also have to look into the more likely possibility that she may have had something to do with the disappearance of Trenton.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, in for Nancy Grace. Tonight, we search for answers in the disappearance of 2-year-old Florida boy Trenton Duckett. His mom committed suicide on Friday afternoon, putting yet another tragic spin on this case and possibly complicating the search for answers.

I want to go straight out to our G-men, three highly respected former FBI men who are with us tonight.

Let`s start with Jack Trimarco, who is a polygraph expert. We know, Jack, that she refused to take a lie-detector test, while the father did take one, and he says the outcome was favorable. So what can you say from that? Is refusing to take a lie-detector test a sign of guilt, or can there be many other reasons why somebody might want to avoid a test of that sort?

JACK TRIMARCO, FORMER FBI PROFILER, POLYGRAPH UNIT CHIEF: Well, Jane, an innocent person should jump on the opportunity to take a polygraph test, if it`s presented to them right. Of course, in the FBI, we would tell people that we want to eliminate them from suspicion, to get them into the polygraph suite. And then if they didn`t do it, they pass, and if they did it, they fail, and they make an admission or they confess.

I should say that probably a poster child for what not to do in a missing child case would be the Ramseys. They were given bad advice by an attorney to both go out and get defense attorneys, instead of cooperating with the police and possibly taking a polygraph test. If they had cooperated, like most parents do, this might not have been the kidnapping of the century. This might have been a case that had been solved in short order. But even Patsy has taken some doubts to her grave. I think that if they had cooperated early on, taken a polygraph test, eliminated themselves from suspicion, police efforts and focus could have gone to who really killed JonBenet.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you mention the Ramsey case, and maybe there are parallels here. Holly Hughes, is it possible that we may never find the answer to this mystery because the mom is gone and she took many vital pieces of information with her? Even if she`s not responsible, is it possible now that we will never have closure to this tragedy?

HUGHES: Absolutely possible, Jane. By killing herself -- like I said, I think it`s the coward`s way out. She didn`t stick around to help the police with the investigation. Now, unless there`s something in her diary -- I understand there`s no suicide note, but unless there`s something that she wrote in the diary that is going to give us the answers, it is highly likely we`ll never know.

What`s most suspicious to me is that 28-hour gap where no one saw that little boy except for her. And if she was out shopping, she should tell the police where she was and they can pull video and verify that he was fine until the time she said that he was. But with the absence of any information from here, we may never know.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If anybody has any information, whether they think it`s important or not, just come to the police. They may have seen Melinda or Trenton, anything that could be helpful in the investigation. We just -- we want Trenton home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, sitting in tonight for Nancy Grace. Have you seen this little 2-year-old boy, Trenton Duckett, missing in Leesburg, Florida for two weeks, from his own bedroom? If you have any information -- any information -- please call 1-800-CALL-FBI and help in the search for little Trenton Duckett. Such a beautiful, beautiful little boy. A ball of life is how everyone described him.

We are honored to have with us tonight right now, rather spontaneously -- he said he wanted to say a few things, and we are delighted that he is here with us -- anti-crime crusader Mark Lunsford, who is the father of slain Jessica Lunsford, a man who has been working tirelessly to try to get tougher laws against child predators in this country.

Mark, what are your thoughts on this case and the apparent suicide of this mom?

MARK LUNSFORD, DAUGHTER JESSICA ABDUCTED AND MURDERED: Well, you know, it`s a huge tragedy, you know, for both sides of the family. I mean, you know, not only is Trenton missing, but now we`ve even lost Melinda. You know, there`s no one to blame for suicide. I`ve had to deal with suicide of a loved one, and there`s just no one to blame, and people shouldn`t feel that way.

But what people should keep in mind, your viewers out there, is that Trenton is still missing. Some of the answers may be with his mother, may not. We don`t know. Let`s not question that. There is someone out there between 4:30 PM on Saturday to 9:00 PM on Sunday that may have seen Trenton and his mother, or even just Trenton with someone else. And no matter how small you think that piece of information that you have, it may not be worth nothing, it may link two big pieces together.

Please cause the FBI Leesburg, or FDLE. They`re working hard on this to find this little boy and to bring him home.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m Yoko Anther (ph), and I represent O.J. Simpson. Norman Pardo, who claims to own 71 hours of filmed tape of O.J. Simpson, wants to sell that tape to the Goldman family in exchange for the Goldmans relinquishing wishing their rights under the judgment they have against Mr. Simpson.

I don`t think that Mr. Pardo does own all of the rights to those tapes, because the tapes contain images of Mr. Simpson. Possession is not nine-tenths of the law when you`re dealing with film and movie rights. It is certainly not going to be easy for Mr. Goldman to get the tape, and it certainly will not be easy for Mr. Pardo to do this exchange.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, in tonight for Nancy Grace. Exclusive footage of the shocking O.J. Simpson videotapes, the one-time murder suspect and former NFL great seen candid and raw in appearances all over the country. More than 70 hours of footage.

And the producer joins us tonight to talk about why, why he wants to turn these tapes over to the family of murder victim Ron Goldman.

But first straight out to my good friend and fellow investigative reporter, Pat Lalama. She has been following the O.J. Simpson saga for more than a decade.

Pat, bring us up to date on this latest twist.

PAT LALAMA, INVESTIGATOR REPORTER: And do you believe, here we are again yet another chapter.

Well, this comes, this newest offer interestingly, Janie, comes in the wake of a motion filed by Ron Goldman that -- or excuse me, by Fred Goldman, the father of the deceased Ron Goldman, that could be quite precedent setting. Here`s how it worked.

Nine years ago, a little bit after O.J. was acquitted in the murder case, a civil jury, remember, a civil jury said, well you know what? Maybe he wasn`t found guilty by the standards of law of murder, but we do believe he`s liable. In other words, responsible for the death of Nicole and Ron. Therefore, we`re going to award him punitive damages and compensatory damages.

Well, it totaled a little bit over $19 million. Guess what, do you think the Goldmans have seen much of that? Reportedly about $600,000. But if that is true, it`s alleged that they had to spend it all on legal fees. So it`s been a horrible, painful process for the Goldmans.

So what happens, take us up to date, is this. An intellectual property attorney came up with what I think is an amazing idea. He said, "You know what? Simpson`s out there signing autographs. He`s going to conventions. He`s putting his name on helmets from his great days as Mr. O.J. Simpson, and he`s got to be making some money from that. That`s intellectual property. But guess what, that has value. So we want to take -- we want the courts to order that Mr. Simpson turn over what`s known as with celebrities a right of publicity."

You go out there and use your name and your likeness, you`re making money, send it over to us. And that`s essentially what it`s about.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Right, Pat. And the funny part about this is that even though Norm Pardo wants to exchange this footage with the Goldmans in return for their portion of the judgment. If they win that legal battle, they might get this footage anyway.

And we want to go out to Norm Pardo, the producer himself. Hear it from the horse`s mouth.

Why do you want to hand over more than 70 hours of footage it took you four years to accumulate over the course of 20 cities? And what do you think you`re going to get from Fred Goldman that`s of value to you?

NORM PARDO, PRODUCER: Well, I want to trade it for the judgment. The Goldmans are never going to get my tapes. They`re never going to get a dime from my tapes, and they can do whatever they want in court. I`ve already had the tapes. O.J. agreed to do the tapes five years ago. You can`t back date things. I`m not worried about that.

So if they want money from the tapes, their other option is to get the deal from, you know, go to court, get the courts to agree that they can have his signature and then try to catch him at autograph sessions for another 10 grand. That never was the reason. I think the only reason they`re in court is over my tapes, but they`re not going to get those. But if they want them, I`m willing to trade them.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Fascinating. And we`re trying to figure out exactly how this works.

Maybe I should go straight out to prosecutor Holly Hughes. This -- we`re not talking about trading baseball cards here. Is this even legal? Can you trade video for a person`s judgment that they were awarded in court? Is that even -- is it even possible?

HUGHES: Not that I`m aware of, Jane. What happened was the judgment was levied against O.J., and Mr. Pardo is a third party who was not part of the judgment one way or the other. He wasn`t the plaintiff or the defendant.

So I think that any kind of trade he`s making does not necessarily alleviate O.J.`s responsibility, as he was ordered by a court to pay that money.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Now, by the way, the footage you`ve been seeing of O.J. Simpson in this fancy Rolls Royce is exclusive, and you`re seeing it here for the first time. It has never apparently been aired.

Let`s go to Marc Beginin. He is the attorney for the producer you just heard from, Norm Pardo.

Now, thanks for joining us, Marc. Let me read what O.J. Simpson`s attorney has said about your effort. "You can expect a legal fight before any deal made to exchange the tapes for the Goldmans` legal judgment."

Simpson`s attorney says it is not clear that your client, Norm Pardo, owns these tapes. Possession is not nine-tenths of the law when it comes to movie and video images. Your response?

MARC BEGININ, ATTORNEY FOR NORMAN PARDO: You know what, possession is not nine-tenths of the law. But my client has a contract with O.J. Simpson that includes his rights of publicity at that time.

So additionally, O.J. Simpson knew he was being videotaped the whole time. There was no question about it. And that was what the quid pro quo was on it, that my client gets the videos, O.J. gets to promote himself for a number of years.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me jump in here. Is it possible that O.J. Simpson traveled for four years to 20 cities and never got any ownership rights of all the video that was being shot of him hour after hour?

BEGININ: Exactly. He assigned his rights of publicity so Norman Pardo would take him around the country and promote and get O.J. back out there when nobody else was willing to do it.

With regard to what the other person was saying about assigning rights to a judgment, it`s done every day. You can always sell a judgment to anybody, assign it. What we`re talking about here is assigning the rights to the videos for the rights to the judgment.

And this all came about because just a week ago on the NANCY GRACE show, it was -- my client was accused of selling millions of these tapes, making millions of dollars and that the money might be going offshore and funneling its way back into O.J.`s account. And as a matter of fact, up to that time, not one video has been sold. Not one video has been sold to today.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me go back to Norm for a second, your client. Norm, did you guys have a falling out, you and O.J. Simpson? Because from what I understand, when you first started you said you were going to rehabilitate his image.

And then, over the course of things, the theme kind of shifted, and suddenly it was discovering the real O.J., the dark and disturbing picture. Judge for yourself whether or not he`s guilty. That kind of sounds like you had some kind of falling out.

PARDO: Well, I never planned on rehabilitating his image. I just wanted to see the public`s reaction. I was very curious. And I wanted to film it.

So it wasn`t an effort to rehabilitate him. It was just to get him out there, get the film. We put him in strange locations doing strange things. Nothing was ever scripted. I just wanted to see what would the public do if they met up with O.J.?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But this was to make money. Because on your web site, you`re selling tapes for what, $12 something and $19 something?

PARDO: Yes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I mean, this is -- you`re selling these tapes.

PARDO: Yes, I wasn`t going to make money at first until they said I made millions. Then I put them all up for sale.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. I want to go to Kato Kaelin who has known O.J. Simpson for a long time. He`s the host of "Eye for an Eye". Obviously, he was a witness at the O.J. Simpson trial and goes down in the history books for being with O.J. Simpson on the night of the infamous murders.

Welcome, Kato.

KATO KAELIN, HOST, "EYE FOR AN EYE": Hi, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Good to have you here. How are you doing?

KAELIN: Good to be here.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, I`m hoping you can peek into the mind of O.J. and give us a sense.

KAELIN: I can let you in, and I`ll tell you what, with Norman talking, all this stuff. He loves to be adulated by people but he loves to be adulated for things that he did before when he did -- broke records in football.

I think that`s sort of a pain that he`s in right now, is that I don`t think people are coming out to see him because of his football records. It`s because of this murder trial. And I think that`s causing him much pain because here`s a guy who was adulated forever for all his records, and now he`s got none of that. And I know...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to ask you...

KAELIN: OK, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, I want to ask you about some of the disturbing things that he has done tacky references to the crime itself. Like on "Juiced", another DVD that`s not connected with Mr. Pardo, I believe, but he plays a used car salesman who is selling a Ford Bronco, saying, "It helped me get away." This is an obvious reference to his infamous slow speed chase.

KAELIN: Yes, it`s...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: How is it possible, considering he has two children who lost a mother, that he is capable of doing something like that?

KAELIN: No, it is -- it`s incredible. I don`t know if he`s getting paid for that sort of thing. But that is just -- you know, fire his agent. It`s just terrible things that he`s doing. And it`s -- it`s not right.

So I don`t know the money situation, Jane. But I don`t think people really want to go out and see O.J.

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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s head over to Headline Prime`s Glenn Beck.

Hi, Glenn. What`s up?

GLENN BECK, HOST, "GLENN BECK": Coming up, today`s attack on the U.S. embassy in Damascus, Syria, the latest example of how dangerous our enemies really are. Hello, time to wake up to the reality of our war with radical Islam.

Also tonight, outrageous politicians. I know. Shock for you. Democrats and Republicans, are they using the war in Iraq, and yesterday`s 9/11 anniversary, for political advantage? It`s got to stop.

Also, we`ll talk to stage and screen star Brian Dennehy about his latest film. Don`t miss it.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Twelve years ago it, Ron and Nicole were murdered. Murdered by the man whose name I still to this day refuse to use. To this day, he has never been punished for that act in any form.

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VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, in tonight for Nancy Grace. We are showing you exclusive video of the shocking and candid O.J. Simpson tapes. The producer followed O.J. all over the country in a bid to revamp his image. Although apparently, he`s now denying that.

Now he wants to hand those tapes over to murder victim Ron Goldman`s family. But are there strings attached?

Let`s go straight out to noted attorney Gloria Allred, who once represented the family of Nicole Brown Simpson.

You`ve been listening to all of this, Gloria. What`s your take on it? Is the Goldman family`s search for justice getting mired down in publicity seekers?

GLORIA ALLRED, ATTORNEY: Now I think that they are employing a creative and appropriate approach, Jane, seeking to acquire his right of publicity is an important property right and they should have a right to acquire it.

After all, they are owed multimillion of dollars from the judgment of the civil case, in which -- in which the jury decided by clear and convincing evidence that they were entitled to a multimillion dollar judgment because O.J. Simpson was responsible for the wrongful death of their son.

And so they`re going after it. It`s an intangible property right. And rather than having Mr. Simpson enjoy the right to exploit his image, exploit his photographs, exploit the value in his name, such as it is, let`s give it to the Goldmans and/or the estate of Nicole Brown Simpson if they seek it, and let them get the money that flows in as a result of that right to satisfy that judgment.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, correct me if I`m wrong. Apparently, O.J. Simpson`s judgment was originally $20 million. But because of interest, because he hasn`t paid, it`s ballooned to about $40 million. Now, does that get divided 50/50 with the Brown family and the Goldman family?

ALLRED: Well, actually the Brown family never sued O.J. Simpson. They sued on behalf of the estate of Nicole Brown Simpson, and the beneficiaries of that judgment of the estate are, in fact, the children, Sydney and Justin, the children of Nicole Brown and O.J. Simpson, not the Brown family.

Lou Brown did that civil case in order to be able to get an amount that is -- and get justice for the children. And so when he attempts, when O.J. Simpson attempts to evade and avoid the responsibility of satisfying that judgment, that is, paying any income, any property that he has to satisfy the judgment, he is really shortchanging and depriving his own children, as well as the estate of Ron Goldman.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, that`s an absolutely fascinating point, Gloria. I want to ask Kato Kaelin about a related point.

You knew Sydney and Justin when they were much younger. How do you think, knowing what you do about them, they`re reacting to al of their father`s inappropriate behavior, given the fact that he`s making references to a murder that involved their mother? Now they`re teenagers. They`re old enough to think for themselves.

KAELIN: Yes, I`ve got a feeling that being around kids in her high school or college now, I know she made a 911 call already. I think she`s probably going through the most stress right now.

Justin, I think, was sort of the -- kind of the low key guy. Now he`s playing football. I always thought Justin was a little bit closer to his father.

And I think Sydney`s probably, if she doesn`t have some problems already, she may have. I mean, I don`t know how many people would actually get on 911 to call to report their father for whatever the reason was.

So I`ve got a feeling that kids can be pretty mean, and now that she`s older, I think there`s probably some scarring. And but once again, they`re great kids.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think you are absolutely right.

I want to go back, we`re looking at JudgeOJ.com video. This is O.J. Simpson sitting in a bus stop where he sort of talks about how low he`s fallen.

Let me go back to the producer of all this, Norm Pardo. You know, it says judge O.J. My understanding was that we were going to get footage that was going to give us an inside peek into his guilt or innocence so that the public could judge for itself.

Now we`ve seen a lot of extraordinarily tacky behavior like O.J. Simpson getting a lap dance from several women at the same time, including a woman who appears to be a Nicole Simpson look-alike. But I`m not getting any inside information on the case itself. What are you holding back? Do you really have anything?

PARDO: We`ve got a lot.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Like what? What about the -- what about the case? What inside information that will allow us to judge O.J., as in JudgeOJ.com?

PARDO: Well, this is to judge him now. I`m not going back in time. I wasn`t at the trial. So I don`t have the film footage from the trial. This is strictly now. You know, after the trial, you know, within five years.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But how does it help people judge O.J. and his guilt or innocence?

PARDO: Well, his mannerisms. O.J. In general, just the man.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Right. But you promised extraordinary information, and what we`ve seen is extraordinarily tacky behavior. I mean, there is a little bit of difference there.

I mean, you know, somebody sitting at a bus stop talking about how low they`ve fallen or getting a lap dance from three women at once or calling names, calling Oprah Winfrey and other people horrible names, that`s tacky and it`s awful. And we already know he`s a jerk. But it doesn`t really tell us anything about the case.

PARDO: This isn`t about the case.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, it is JudgeOJ.com.

PARDO: Yes. This is to judge him now. Not past. Now. To watch the film.

At the time, we were just going to do the film. People could watch it and judge for themselves what they see in O.J. Simpson, what the media says about O.J., what O.J.`s doing, what the people`s reaction to him and his reaction to the people. It never was meant to be a Kato Kaelin type thing where everybody get on the news and talks about the trial.

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O.J. SIMPSON, FORMER NFL STAR: I love my life! Isn`t life wonderful? Thank you, Jesus!

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VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, in tonight for Nancy Grace. The legal twists behind the exclusive O.J. Simpson videotapes.

I want to go straight back out to Kato Kaelin, because the producer, Norm Pardo, kind of accused you of being a publicity seeker. But I think the big difference is he inserted himself into this case. You just happened to be by an accident at a very significant point with O.J.

KAELIN: He doesn`t realize -- he doesn`t realize you`ve got Gloria Allred in the other room. He`d better be careful.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. Exactly.

You know, how has this changed your life, Kato? I mean, this is obviously something you`re going to be remembered for, for the rest of your life, simply by the action of being there at that time.

KAELIN: Right. Jane, and you know what? I don`t fight it, but I`ve been out here from Wisconsin forever trying to get into show business. I`ve been an actor. My SAG card for 20 years now.

And life is wonderful now. I work for "National Lampoon". I`ve got a TV show. I`ve got a new one called, "Oh, no it`s Kato." It has nothing to do with the trial. It`s stuff that I strive to do, and I`m -- I`m becoming very successful.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I wish you the very best of luck.

KAELIN: Thank you, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re going to give Gloria Allred the final word. Will there ever be justice for the Goldmans and the Brown family?

ALLRED: There never will be justice, because they`ll never be able to bring back their loved ones.

But I hope and expect that they will follow O.J. Simpson for the rest of his life. Make his life miserable, try to execute on their judgment and satisfy it and recover at least whatever they can, because they can`t bring back their loved ones. But they can make Mr. Simpson pay and pay and pay, and that day of payment is now long overdue.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And sometimes the ultimate payment is just living in your own skin and being who you are, and perhaps that is the form of justice that he will get and continues to get. Thank you, Gloria.

Tonight, we remember Army Staff Sergeant Paul Pabla, who`s 23, from Fort Wayne, Indiana. Pabla put his studies at Ball State University on hold to join the National Guard.

On his first tour of duty, he trained Iraqi police officers and bought toys for young Iraqi children. He leaves behind a loving, grieving family. Paul Pabla, an American hero.

We want to thank all of our guests tonight for their insights. And thanks to you at home for tracking these very important cases with us. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, in for Nancy Grace. Nancy will be back tomorrow night, 8 p.m. sharp Eastern. Until then, have a terrific and a safe evening.

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