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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Deadly, Brazen Iraqi Insurgent Attack on U.S. Army Kills 2 Soldiers, Wounding 25; House Passes Act For A 700-Mile Fence on Mexican Border; Chinese Companies Are Selling Nuclear Technology to Iran, North Korea; Patty Murray Interview; Lanny Davis Discusses New Book
Aired September 14, 2006 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, insurgents in Iraq have killed five more of our troops just over the past 24 hours. Two of those troops, in a rare suicide bomb attack against an Army outpost in Baghdad. Nearly 30 other soldiers were wounded in that attack. We'll have the full exclusive report form Baghdad.
And a major victory in Congress for advocates of strong border security, Congress overwhelmingly voting to build a 700-mile fence along our southern border with Mexico. But will the Senate respond and provide funding? We'll have that special report and a great deal more. Right here, tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT, news, debate and opinion for Thursday September 14. Live in New York, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening, everybody.
Insurgents in Iraq today killed two of our troops in a bold attack on a U.S. Army outpost in Baghdad. Nearly 30 other of our soldiers were wounded in that attack. Three other soldiers killed in Iraq in the past 24 hours; 35 of our troops have been killed in Iraq so far this month and 2,678 of our troops killed since this war began.
Cal Perry has the exclusive report from Baghdad on the suicide bomb attack and the military hospital that treated the casualties. Jamie McIntyre tonight reports from the Pentagon on the first overhaul of the Army's counter-insurgency tactics in a quarter century. And Dana Bash reports, from Capitol Hill, on the confrontation between President Bush and leading senators over the way U.S. interrogators question suspected terrorists.
We turn first to Cal Perry -- Cal.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CAL PERRY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A deadly insurgent attack today on U.S. troops hitting what the U.S. Military calls a quote, "fixed position".
At least two U.S. soldiers killed, 25 others wounded. The video you're seeing in front of you now is video of these troops being rushed into a combat support hospital in Iraq. The doctors, medics and nurses immediately triage out the worst of the patients, treating them first, the lightly wounded later.
A very emotional moment following when General Thurman, he is the commanding general of the 4th ID here in Baghdad, leaning over a U.S. soldier and asking, quote, "Is he going to be OK?" Doctors responded, "Yes, sir, he's going to be fine."
Iraqis also feeling the brunt of the violence here in Baghdad today; 49 bodies found overnight by Baghdad police. That brings the total to over 100 bodies found strewn across the capital in the past 48 hours. Baghdad police tell CNN that these bodies showed signs of tortures. Many were executed leading police to believe this is ongoing sectarian killings. A very frightening trend here in Iraq. Last month, 1500 bodies were found strewn across the capital in sectarian violence. Cal Perry, CNN, Baghdad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: And insurgents killed 19 Iraqis in a bomb attack today. The worst of the attacks in a downtown Baghdad. Nine people there were killed; 26 more were wounded.
The insurgents exploded two bombs, one to draw emergency services to the scene; the second bomb to kill Iraqi police officers trying to secure the area.
The U.S. Army today announced the biggest overhaul in counter- insurgency tactics in a quarter century. The Army issued a new manual based on the bitter lessons of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. The new manual, to be published next month, comes five years after the war on terror began. A war already lasting longer than World War II.
Jamie McIntyre reports from the Pentagon.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The grim realities faced by U.S. troops locked in deadly battles with insurgents in both Iraq and Afghanistan have forced a complete rethinking of the U.S. military's textbook tactics for counterinsurgency operations. Lt. General David Petraeus, helped write the new Army field manual on the subject, the first overhaul in 25 years.
LT. GEN. DAVID PETRAEUS, U.S. ARMY: During that time, the world turned quite a bit. And the enemies, the insurgents, if you will, have certainly taken advantage of new technologies. It's much more urban now. We're certainly not in jungles right now, anywhere, as we were in many respects, in the past.
MCINTYRE: Petraeus says the message going out to the current generation of U.S. military leaders is fighting an insurgency is fraught with paradoxes. For instance, "The more you protect your force, the less secure you are. The more force you use, the less effective you are. The more successful you are, the less force you can use and the more risk you must accept."
Meaning, it's all about finesse, not fire power.
PETRAEUS: One of the lessons that's in the manual, of course, is you must continually adapt, you must continually assess and reassess a situation, because what works here today may not work here tomorrow. What works today may not work down in the other province today.
MCINTYRE: Another maxim Petraeus argues is that tactical success guarantees nothing. In other words, you can win every battle and still lose the war.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: Now, General Petraeus is careful to say the new manual does not have the answers for everything happening in Iraq right now, which he concedes, by the way, is at a pivotal point. But he says the point of this manual is to get the commanders to start asking the right questions -- Lou.
DOBBS: And coming up, of course, with the right answers. Jamie McIntyre, thank you very much.
Jamie McIntyre reporting from the Pentagon.
On Capitol Hill, a key Senate committee today defied President Bush and passed a bill that it says will protect the rights of suspected foreign terrorists. The Senate Armed Services Committee passed the legislation hours after President Bush visited lawmakers trying to win support for his policy on the treatment of detainees.
The president wanting Congress to support tough CIA interrogations of suspected terrorists. Dana Bash reports -- Dana.
DANA BASH, CNN CAPITOL HILL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, this was a stunning day of Republican divisions over national security here in Washington.
One Republican senator said they are at all out war with the White House over this issue. The day started with the president making a rare personal appearance here to try to push his plan. And that is as the White House sees it, it would allow tough interrogations of terror suspects, while protecting interrogators from charges of war crimes.
But hours later, the Senate Armed Services Committee defied him. They passed a measure sponsored by three senior and well-respected members of Mr. Bush's own party, that they say better protects the rights of those held in U.S. custody.
That is something that got backing from the president's own former secretary of State, Colin Powell. He came out today against Mr. Bush's plan, writing a letter. That letter he said, "The world is beginning to doubt the moral basis of our fight against terrorism." He went on to say, "To redefine Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions would add to these doubts. Furthermore, it would put our troops at risk." The current Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, fired back with her own letter. She said, "The proposed legislation was strengthened U.S. adherence to Common Article 3 of the Geneva Convention, because it would add meaningful definition and clarification to vague terms in the treaties."
At the White House, the president dug in. He made clear that he believes that if his plan doesn't go through, that key programs to interrogate so-called high valued terrorists would be shut down.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: So the question I ask, about any piece of legislation is, will the program provide legal clarity so that our professionals will feel comfortable about going forward with the program? That's what I'm going to ask. And I will resist any bill that does not enable this program to go forward legal clarity.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: There are several other issues that do divide these two sides. For example, whether or not these detainees could see evidence, that is secret or classified, if the jury is going to here it. Rules of hearsay, for example, is another issue that divides them. Lou, both sides of this say this is the last thing they need a couple of months before an election for Republicans to be fighting over the issue of national security. But both sides also insist, for them, it's a matter of principle -- Lou.
DOBBS: And law and treaties. Thank you very much, Dana Bash from Capitol Hill.
Still ahead, Congress is sharply divided over whether you should have the right to know. Also, the House votes to build a 700-mile border fence. What happens next? And gaping holes in port security. Senator Patty Murray joins us here tonight. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: On Capitol Hill tonight, lawmakers supporting tough border security and an end to wasteful government spending, are trying to pass important legislation before the upcoming midterm elections.
But fierce infighting in Congress could still hold up these popular measures. Lisa Sylvester tonight reports on last-minute efforts to prevent Congress from wasting your money on pork barrel projects. Casey Wian reports on the ongoing fight to fund 700 miles of new border fence along our southern border with Mexico.
We begin with Casey Wian.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now to establish operational control over the international land and maritime borders of the United States. CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): By a 2-1 margin, the House of Representatives passed the Secure Fence Act. It authorizes 700 miles of double layered, reinforced fence along critical parts of the Southwest border, where there is high traffic by illegal aliens and drug smugglers.
REP. J.D. HAYWORTH (R), ARIZONA: When you've got a hole in your roof, the first thing you do is patch the hole. Let's move forward with effective fence, support this legislation.
WIAN: Some lawmakers are tired of Congress' failure to secure the nation's borders five years of 9/11.
REP. PETE KING (R-NY), CHAIR, HOMELAND SEC. CMTE.: If we want to show -- genuinely are against going nothing, then let's do something and pass legislation which we know the overwhelming majority of the American people want, and that is to build this fence.
WIAN: Republicans acknowledge political concerns are driving their effort to pass the Sensenbrenner Border Security Bill, one provision at a time.
REP. PETE SESSIONS (R), TEXAS: Our Republican leadership has decided to take the least controversial portions of this broader reform effort and to pass them in pieces, that the other body can then take up and pass.
WIAN: Democrats seized on that, and the fact that the House bill contains no funding to actually construct a fence.
REP. ALCEE HASTINGS (D), FLORIDA: Nothing more than political gainsmanship in the run up to the midterm election. Sounds good, does nothing.
WIAN: House Republicans say the money will come after a conference with the Senate. They're also demanding the Senate drop the concession to the Mexican government contained in its border fence bill.
REP. ED ROYCE (R), CALIFORNIA: We want to make certain on the House side that we disabuse our colleagues in the other house from one concept. And that is the language that would preclude the construction of any border fence, without consultation with the government of Mexico.
WIAN: Sponsors admit 700 miles of fence won't completely secure the southern border, but it's a start.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: The House bill does contain one new provision. It orders the Homeland Security Department to re-evaluate the Border Patrol's policy that prohibits agents from aggressively pursuing suspects unless they receive prior authorization from a supervisor.
That policy, of course, was used by prosecutors against Border Patrol Agents Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean, who now face jail for trying to apprehend a Mexican drug smuggler -- Lou.
DOBBS: And it is absolutely hamstrung, the U.S. Border Patrol, in stopping illegal immigration across particularly our southern border for years now. It's almost incredible that there is any controversy over the question of whether or not the Border Patrol should be able to patrol effectively our borders, and whether we should be able to secure our own border at our own prerogative.
WIAN: It seems like it should be pretty simple. And I can tell you, Border Patrol agents are going to be happy that Congress is at least acknowledging this is a problem that they face everyday. And hopefully Congress will do something about it, Lou.
DOBBS: Casey Wian, thank you very much.
That brings us to the subject of our poll tonight. For reasons of national security and to stop illegal immigration, do you believe the entire southern border with Mexico should be fenced? Yes or no? Cast your vote at LouDobbs.com. We'll have the results here later in the broadcast.
Congress has done absolutely nothing to address runaway deficit spending. Now with the midterm elections ahead, the Republican leadership is trying to cut out at least some of the pork and to not waste all of your tax dollars at least. Lisa Sylvester reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT, LOU DOBBS TONIGHT (voice- over): The District of Columbia, is one of the nation's leading exporters of pork, no not that kind of pork, the kind that costs taxpayers millions of dollars, lawmakers literally flushing money down the toilet.
One million dollars for the Water-Free Urinal Conservation Initiative; $6.5 million to studying new uses for wood; and $500,000 for the Sparta Teapot Museum in Sparta, North Carolina, just to name a few. These perks and pork, known as earmarks are often tucked into bills anonymously, in the dead of night. The number of earmarks has increased tenfold in the last decade.
REP. JOHN SHADEGG (R), ARIZONA: I would argue it is vital that the American people be able to know how every dollar they send us in taxes gets spent. And this legislation will allow that to happen.
SYLVESTER: Alaska's infamous bridge to nowhere triggered a call for earmark and lobbying reform. The new rule would require all sponsors of pet projects to be identified.
REP. JEFF FLAKE (R), ARIZONA: This doesn't get rid of earmarks, but it makes everyone know who's getting them and that's a start.
SYLVESTER: But the fight over earmarks has sparked in fighting among Republicans. The powerful chair of the Appropriations Committee, Jerry Louis, says the changes single out his committee. Democrats don't like the proposal either, saying it doesn't go far enough. Defense earmarks, for example, would not be included.
REP. JIM MCGOVERN (D), MASSACHUSETTS: There are so many loopholes in this measure that you would drive a Mack truck right through it.
SYLVESTER: Tax watchdog groups are vying to fight for more transparency.
STEVE ELLIS, TAXPAYERS FOR COMMON SENSE: We want to leave no earmarks behind bill. We want one that is going to actually have some teeth and it is going to have transparency for all earmarks, so the taxpayers will know where their money is being spent.
SYLVESTER: The rules apply only to the House, not to the Senate.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: And within the last hour, the earmark reform passed the House by a vote of 245 to 171. The rules changes are guaranteed, Lou, only through the end of this session, to carry over to the next Congress, the changes would have to be renewed -- Lou.
DOBBS: There's always a catch, isn't there?
SYLVESTER: Yes.
DOBBS: Lisa, thank you. Lisa Sylvester.
In Mexico tonight, political chaos is widening in the southeastern Mexican state of Oaxaca. Anti-government militants are raiding offices, torching vehicles, and setting up barricades. The protest began as a teacher's strike for better pay back in May. It has since escalated into a left wing, wider revolt over the contested Mexican presidential elections. School teachers and their supporters have declared their own government in Oaxaca and their own law enforcement.
And federal troops are not even close to entering the province. Police have given up protecting the city. They're deserting their posts. Mexican election officials, meanwhile, tonight, are saying they will soon be forced to burn all of those ballots in July's presidential vote, that highly controversial vote.
The election officials claim they are legally bound to destroy the ballots now that a so-called winner has been declared in this election, by the Mexican's supreme court.
Mexico's highest court declared Felipe Calderon the winner last week. He won by less than 1 percent of the vote. Challenger Andreas Manuel Lopez Obrador and his supporters are still refusing to accept defeat, and certainly refusing to accept the high court ruling. Their widening demonstrations in Mexico tonight are forcing outgoing President Fox to cancel Mexican Independence Day celebrations, scheduled to be held in Mexico City.
Fox is moving tomorrow's celebrations on the eve of Independence Day, to a town 170 miles from the capital, and the largest city in Mexico. Obrador and his supporters are vowing to hold their own Independence Day observance in Mexico City tomorrow.
There's new hypocrisy from the Vicente Fox government to tell you about tonight. The latest case surrounds U.S. federal marshals who arrested famed bounty hunter, Dwayne Dog Chapman in Hawaii. Chapman made headlines three years ago when he caught the heir to the Max Factor fortune, who was hiding in Mexico and facing rape charges.
But Mexico, it seems, has a law against bounty hunters. And Mexico has been looking to catch Chapman ever since, despite the fact that he caught a wanted criminal. Chapman will be extradited by U.S. authorities back to Mexico.
Mexico, it turns out, is suddenly very concerned about fugitives escaping justice -- to the south.
Still ahead, Communist China intensifying its efforts to help Iran and Korea develop dangerous new weapons. Why isn't anyone else telling you about this development?
The Senate today finally passed legislation protecting our vulnerable ports. We'll be telling you about that as well; and the latest on today's brazen suicide bombs against out troops in Iraq. General David Grange will be here. A lot more still ahead. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: President Bush today met with the South Korean president at the White House in an effort to show unity in the nuclear and missile crisis with North Korea. President Bush and President Roh declared they want North Korea to return to six country talks on Pyongyang's nuclear program.
But in comments to reporters, they ignored their differences and the United States has been pushing for possible sanctions against North Korea, while South Korea wants to avoid escalating the crisis.
North Korea is trying to develop long-range ballistic missiles capable of carrying nuclear weapons with help from Communist China. A top U.S. State Department official today testified that Communist Chinese companies are transferring missile technology to North Korea, and other rogue states, such as Iran. Iran, of course, also a nuclear weapons program. Christine Romans reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Iran and North Korea are aggressively building weapons programs with the technology and support of the Chinese. U.S. Officials at a hearing today on Capitol Hill.
PETER RODMAN, ASST. DEFENSE SECRETARY: We see in China a general willingness to transfer a wide variety of technologies to customers around the world, including to states of concern. ROMANS: He lists Iran, North Korea, Sudan, Myanmar, and Zimbabwe, Cuba, and Venezuela. And linked China to a July 4th missile test in North Korea. And to Hezbollah's July 15 firing of a Silkworm anti-ship cruise missile off the coast of Lebanon.
RODMAN: These two episodes stand as examples of how China's proliferation activity, past or present, can come back to haunt it.
ROMANS: And harm U.S. interests.
ILAN BERMAN, AMERICAN FOREIGN POLICY COUNCIL: There's technology transfer that's going on very robustly that's increasing the capabilities of Iran's proxy groups. And here it's important to remember that Iran is the world's leading state sponsor of terrorism.
ROMANS: Rodman, at the Pentagon, says China has long shielded Iran and North Korea from the consequences of their dangerous behavior.
RODMAN: This would be a good time for Beijing to re-evaluate its relationships with both Pyongyang and Tehran.
ROMANS: Not only are Chinese companies serial proliferators, Assistant Secretary of State Paula Desutter says, Communist authorities are unwilling or unable to stop it.
PAULA DESUTTER, ASST. SECRETARY OF STATE: We believe the Chinese government should do more to consistently enforce its nonproliferation obligations.
ROMANS: She said Chinese companies continue to pass important ballistic missile technology to North Korea and Iran. Technology that could help these countries deliver nuclear weapons. And she says China may be in violation of international bans on biological and chemical weapons.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: The message, that despite assurances from the Chinese their activities, Lou, are making the world a more dangerous place.
DOBBS: And the Bush administration, with Assistant Secretary of State and Defense, testifying to Congress today, not saying a single word about it, and continuing to follow these policies that support Communist China in its support of the principal terrorist regimes. It's incredible.
ROMANS: They say they are appealing to the highest levels of the People's Republic of China, to try to get them to stop this behavior. They are fining and sanctioning Chinese companies that are doing it, but that they are disappointed in the Chinese response.
DOBBS: A lot of disappointment in responses here. Thank you very much, Christine Romans.
Time now to look at some of your thoughts. Robert in Colorado said, "Lou, it doesn't matter if kids know math anymore. With this administration in office the kids won't have a paycheck to count on."
Fred in Illinois: "You have the best reality show on TV. Keep up the good work.
Constance in Arizona: "A do-nothing Congress, a president who just doesn't get it, and now even our education system with kids who can't do math. I'm an American. Where am I going? And what am I doing in this hand basket?"
Gerald in Wisconsin: "Lou, if the politicians would be doing their jobs in Washington, they wouldn't have to be spending millions to try to convince us they are. We would know."
And Kelly in Texas: "Lou, after Monday, I have to give Congress credit for consistency. They sing as badly as they run the country."
And Frank in Wisconsin: "Lou, what will it take for the people to up and realize that we have the best Congress and president that corporate America can buy?"
Send us your thoughts to LouDobbs.com. More of your thoughts upcoming here in the broadcast.
A Connecticut family tonight is celebrating the birth of a baby boy. Nothing unusual, in that perhaps, except this is certainly no ordinary baby; weighing in at almost 15 pounds, making it the largest baby born in the William Backus Hospital in Norwich, Connecticut in 18 years.
The doctor who delivered the baby is built like a linebacker. The baby's mother said, Michelle Louis John (ph), said simply, she's happy she has finally given birth. One can imagine so.
Coming up next, I'll be joined by Senator Patty Murray, her port security legislation has just within the last hour passed the U.S. Senate. We'll be talking about port security, Dubai Ports World -- you remember them -- and the future of national security.
Also a shocking new attack on our troops in Iraq, General David Grange joins us to assess what in the world is going on in Iraqi. And the Justice Department taking an interest in the case that this broadcast has been reporting on for weeks. That story and more, straight ahead. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: New developments in the case of the college shooting. The gunman who went on that shooting rampage on a college campus in Montreal, Canada, we have just learned, has killed himself. He was not killed by police as had been just reported. The gunman was identified today as Kimveer Gill. On his personal Web site, he described himself as being a gun fanatic. Gill shot a total of 20 people. One of his victims died in yesterday's shooting. Six other people remain in critical condition tonight.
Iran's President Ahmadinejad today arrived in Cuba for a so- called nonaligned movement summit meeting. The Iranian president arrived in the Cuban capital of Havana for the final stages of this summit. The meeting has already declared its support for Iran in its nuclear confrontation with the United States and the rest of the world. And tonight, President Hugo Chavez of Venezuela, obviously also in attendance, declared Venezuela will help Iran if Iran is attacked.
Space shuttle astronauts today succeeded in unfolding a new set of solar energy panels for the space station. The solar panels are part of the 17-and-a-half ton space shuttle addition the shuttle astronauts brought up with them. Astronauts have been busy all week attaching the new addition to the space station. The new solar panels will double the space station's electrical capacity.
Tropical Storm Lane tonight is battering Mexico's Pacific coast with high winds and heavy rain. It's expected to become a Category 1 hurricane as early as tomorrow. The storm is barreling toward the Baja California Peninsula, which is still recovering from Hurricane John.
And in the Atlantic, Tropical Storm Helene has formed. It's moving west towards the Caribbean and the United States. Forecasters say that storm could become a Category 1 hurricane as early as this Saturday.
In California tonight, firefighters still racing to contain a wildfire that's raging north of Los Angeles. Crews are trying to control that blaze before hot, dry Santa Ana winds sweep in this weekend. The fire has burned nearly 4,800 square miles in Los Padres national forest. And across the country, fires have burned an area twice the size of the state of New Jersey, making the 2006 fire season the worst in more than 45 years in terms of acreage burned.
Ford offering its workers buyouts and early retirement packages, all in an effort to cut its costs. The United Auto Workers Union today said Ford is offering deals to more than 75,000 of its union employees. Ford is expected to announce details of those buyouts tomorrow. Ford has been trying to cut costs after plummeting sales for its cars and trucks.
And in the war in Iraq, insurgents today launched a rare suicide bomb attack against one of our Army outposts. The insurgents killed two of our troops. Three other Americans were killed over the past 24 hours. The attack came on the same day that the Army released a new counterinsurgency manual, the first in a quarter century.
Joining me now is General David Grange, one of the country's most distinguished soldiers. Good to have you with us, Dave.
BRIG. GEN. DAVID GRANGE (RET). U.S. ARMY: Thank you, Lou.
DOBBS: Let's turn to what is happening there. On average, two of our military have been killed there every day. There's discussion about whether sectarian violence or civil war is under way, or some form of both. Is the United States articulating anything that you understand to be a new strategy for victory in Iraq?
GRANGE: Well, the doctrine's there for counterinsurgency. And a lot of the problems that are being faced today were a violation of some of the counterinsurgency doctrine at the very beginnings of this conflict. So now we're in a situation where it's hard to play catch- up in counterinsurgency tactics procedures, some of the things outlined in this new manual that you've referenced. Because now you're really fighting armed militias, and you have these -- the violence between the different factions. So it's really kind of changed to really beyond, in some cases, the counterinsurgency that we're talking about.
DOBBS: And in straightforward language, the idea that a counterinsurgency is difficult -- and you certainly know firsthand how difficult it is to fight -- but so should every other general officer in the United States Army. Let's go back to the counterinsurgency manual, the draft that was released today, which will be, as I understand it, published next month.
Let's go to the specific language that I think is frankly chilling, and go to an example brought up by the Department of Defense and counterinsurgency, referencing Napoleon's experience. Specifically, "Napoleon's cultural miscalculation in the conquest of Spain resulted in protracted struggle that lasted nearly six years and ultimately required approximately three-fifth of the French Empire's total arm strength, almost four times the force of 80,000 that Napoleon originally had designed for the theater. The Spanish resistance drained the empire's resources and was the beginning of the end of Napoleon's reign."
Do you draw a lesson from that for the U.S. general staff?
GRANGE: Well, absolutely. Little different conditions, because the whole country of Spain was against Napoleon for the most part. That's not the case in Iraq.
However, understanding the characteristics of the conflict, the participants, the second, third order effects are critical to winning these type of fights, which, by the way, are very tough fights, tougher than conventional combat. And we misunderstood it at the beginning and are paying for it now.
I believe there's many senior military leaders that understand this doctrine. The Marines also have a new manual out that's very good. They've been practicing that manual as a draft already. And so I think, yes, I think the leadership does understand it. But we're playing catch-up now, Lou.
DOBBS: I want to ask you -- and for now I'm going to project you to the chairman -- you're now the chairman of the Joints Chief of Staff for the purpose of this discussion. With the appropriations...
GRANGE: There you go again, it's not a field assignment. But go ahead. DOBBS: With the appropriation last week, unanimous appropriation, $69 billion more for this -- $63 billion more, bringing the total appropriations for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan to $469 billion. We have just about 2,700 troops who have been killed in Iraq, 300, almost 300 in Afghanistan. Are we, in your judgment, capable of sustaining this level of cost in lives of our brave young men and women and this level of treasure? Are we capable of a protracted, patient approach to counterinsurgency?
GRANGE: I think in the case of Iraq that we cannot continue at this pace with the expenditures and resources and lives and -- because of the will of the nation itself and resources to fight with. In other words, equipment's been run very hard. A lot of broken pieces of weaponry, et cetera, being rebuilt.
Anyway, for a protracted period of time and still be prepared to take on a very good possibility of conflict with Iran and maybe North Korea or elsewhere.
DOBBS: You don't believe it's sustainable?
GRANGE: I do not, for years to come. No, I do not. I think strategy has to be relooked immediately and something must be done.
DOBBS: General Dave Grange, as always, good to talk with you.
GRANGE: Thank you.
DOBBS: Still ahead, I'll be talking with Senator Patty Murray about gaping holes in port security that remain. The Senate is taking a step today to fix that.
The author of "Scandal: How Gotcha Politics is Destroying This Country," destroying America. Why the American people are paying the price for vicious, vicious partisan politics. Lanny Davis, former White House counsel, will join us, the author of that new book.
The Justice Department wants to know why a white school bus driver ordered black children to the back of the bus in 2006. The investigation is now under way. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Five years after September 11, this nation still has not introduced security measures needed to prevent another terrorist attack. Port security remains one of the nation's most glaring failures and vulnerabilities. Less than 5 percent of all cargo coming into this country is properly screened.
Congress tonight took an important step, however, to improve port security, by a vote of 98 to 0. The Senate passed the so called Green Lain Bill that will raise screening standards for all cargo coming into this country. Senator Patty Murray is the bill's co-sponsor and joins us tonight from Capital Hill. First Senator, congratulations.
SEN. PATTY MURRAY (D), WASHINGTON: Thank you. DOBBS: This legislation, over five years after September 11, let me in congratulating you ask what in the world took so long?
MURRAY: I wish I could tell you. It's been very, very difficult. I knew on September 11th, when I looked out the federal office building where, I have an office in Seattle, out on to our container terminals and looked at those huge cargo containers coming from countries all over the world, that we had a major security issue.
Bringing together everybody to focus on this and to come to grips with how we can track those containers from where they're loaded overseas into our stores here in the county has been very difficult. But I think, frankly, what happened was that the Dubai Ports World issue finally woke the country up and they said to us, hey what are you doing here? And it gave us the political ability to get this out.
DOBBS: To that degree, that is wonderful news. As you know, this broadcast, the first to focus on that issue and the administration's willingness to turn over port security to a foreign company, irrespective of the consequences. The subsequent denials have turned out to be outright deceit in terms of the impact on security. Senator where do we stand with Dubai Ports World? They still haven't sold those assets, as they agreed to do.
MURRAY: Well I think we're all watching that very carefully. If I said when the country woke up one day and found out that who was taking control of our ports and how our security was being handled, they demanded finally that Congress wake up and deal with this. And that's, you know, we've made a major step forward and we're going to have to continue to work on a number of issues affecting our ports and the containers that come into them.
DOBBS: How soon will this, assuming that this legislation is passed and signed by the president, how soon will it raise port security. Give us your estimate on scale a of one to ten to the level to which it will raise port security.
MURRAY: Well I think this will significantly raise port security. On a scale of one to ten, I'd say we're at two or three today. We'd get up to eight or nine. It's going to take a little while to implement and get the infrastructure in place. But getting this passed, getting it in law and requiring Homeland Security and everybody involved to begin to take these steps forward, I'm going to start sleeping a little better at night.
DOBBS: Well again, our congratulations to you. One quick question. With the House passing the border fence legislation today, are you prepared to support that legislation and bring border security up to the same level as port security, if the Senate legislation is also passed on port security?
MURRAY: Well, this bill will go to conference with the House. And it has a number of pieces of legislation that have been attached to it from rail security. Certainly the House is looking at other border security and I'm confident that we'll be able to come together and get a grip on this and move our country forward in a good direction.
DOBBS: Did I hear you say, Senator, you would be supportive of a fence?
MURRAY: Yes. I have been on the Senate floor all day long, so I haven't seen the language of what the House has and I'll tell you. What I want to know is how much it's going to cost and whether it actually will make a difference.
DOBBS: Senator Patty Murray, come back after you've had a time to read that and we'll have that discussion.
MURRAY: I'll do that. I'll be happy to do that.
DOBBS: Thank you very much Senator Patty Murray. Still ahead, the Justice Department taking interest finally in the case of a white school bus driver who allegedly forced black students to the back of the bus. The Justice Department is involved in this case, as they should be. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: This broadcast continues to follow events in the small town of Coushatta, Louisiana. There a white school bus driver has been allowed to retire with full benefits after she allegedly forced nine black students to sit at the back of her bus. Residents of the town say city officials have completely mishandled the case and tonight, the U.S. Justice Department is taking interest. Bill Tucker reports from Coushatta, Louisiana.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This sign greets visitors to Coushatta, Louisiana. It commemorates the public hanging of Negroes by whites in 1800s. Today, in 2006, Coushatta and its parish are racially mixed, yet they remain racially divided. The town is more than 65 percent black, but the parish is 56 percent white.
JOHNNY COX, COUNCIL MEMBER: You definitely have a black town and a white parish, with some black in it, because in the parish, we cannot elect a public, a person of color, an African American because there is not enough black vote in the parish to elect a sheriff, a clerk of court, a tax assessor.
TUCKER: The political divide has been an economic one as well. The median income of the black community is half that of the white community. Red River Parish public schools are about 70 percent black, 30 percent white. And they're failing under the No Child Left Behind Act. Much about Coushatta feels like a trap.
DAVID TAYLOR, PASTOR: It concerns any pastor when you see very few jobs, your congregation receiving fewer and fewer higher degrees or education. Those that I do educate, those that I see that pursue further degrees have to relocate. The parish itself is dying.
TUCKER: There is some hope of new work. A mining company is looking to invest in the area. It's uncertain how many jobs would be created in Coushatta, but in a town where the school system is the biggest employer, it's a welcome investment.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: Lou, the town meeting held by the Justice Department will be held here at the Ministries of God church Saturday night here in Coushatta. We, of course, will be there and let you know what happens -- Lou.
DOBBS: Bill Tucker from Coushatta, Louisiana, thank you very much.
Coming up at the top of the hour here on CNN, "THE SITUATION ROOM" with Wolf Blitzer -- Wolf.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, Lou.
Colin Powell squaring off with the president over the treatment of terror suspects. I'll speak with Republican Senator John McCain, who's also taking on the White House.
Plus Senator Barack Obama here in THE SITUATION ROOM. I'll ask him about his presidential prospects for 2008.
And nuclear fight -- U.N. inspectors call claims by the House Intelligence Committee on Iran's uranium enrichment program outrageous and dishonest. Is the intelligence being manipulated for political reasons? We're going to take a closer look.
And a suicide bombing targeting U.S. troops plus the battle for Baghdad. Are spies in the Iraqi government putting Americans at risk? All that, Lou, coming up in "THE SITUATION ROOM."
DOBBS: Looking forward to it, Wolf. Thank you very much.
A reminder now to vote on our poll. For national securities reasons, and to stop illegal immigration do you believe the entire southern border with Mexico should be fenced? Yes or no. Cast your vote at LouDobbs.com. Results will be upcoming in just moments.
Still ahead, the author of "Scandal: How Gotcha Politics is Destroying America." Stay with us.
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DOBBS: Republicans and Democrats tonight are escalating their political battles and attacks over national security, the war on terror, other critical issues ahead of this nation's upcoming elections.
My next guest says the United States is in dire need of a grand coalition government that would put an end to political infighting and address the real needs of the American people.
Lanny Davis the former special counsel to President Clinton, author of this brand new, important book, "Scandal: How Gotcha Politics is Destroying America."
Lanny, first, good to have you here.
LANNY DAVIS, AUTHOR, "SCANDAL": Thank you, Lou. Pleasure to be here.
DOBBS: The idea -- before we go to your idea of a solution, both parties, as you document, absolutely are guilty of some of the most, in my opinion, poisonous, nefarious attacks and strategies that they carry out and call themselves professional politicians. Do you really believe that there is any end to this in sight?
DAVIS: It starts with recognizing our individual responsibilities of what you just said. And as I wrote the book, I actually gained insight into how bad we Democrats were before the Republicans played gotcha in the '90s.
It started after Watergate when we Democrats invented the independent counsel, and then we misused it in the '80s against figures in Reagan and Bush administrations so innocent men and women driven out of town on innuendo.
Then, of course, the Republicans played gotcha when it was Bill Clinton in the White House. And I do think that the cycle has gotten to the point where it's so bad that the American people are ready to revolt against it, and that's why I looked for a solution.
DOBBS: You're, obviously, most familiar with those attacks on Mr. Clinton. You also document your period in Washington in earlier times. But Ed Meese, for example, the attorney general who ...
DAVIS: Great example.
DOBBS: ...is a great example that you brought out. There are people to this day who think he was just a terrible person and had no concept of the reality of the case or its ultimate conclusion.
DAVIS: Look, Bert Lance driven out of town in disgrace.
DOBBS: Another.
DAVIS: Ultimately tried and acquitted. Ed Meese, charged, accused, smeared, never convicted of anything. And Raymond Donovan, three independent councils, we Democrats put him through. Finally he's tried in the Bronx and acquitted after 30 minutes and he was congratulated in the famous line, "Thank you, where do I go to get my good name back."
That's one of the things that caused me to write this book, is that cycle of destroying people rather than debating the issues, which you do on this program, I must say. Debating issues is a lot different than character assassination and that's what we have to look to the future is debate issues rather than the politics of personal destruction.
DOBBS: And, Lanny, at a time when the issues are so critically important, at a time when the issues are overwhelming, in point of fact, in terms of their important for the future of this country, from the left or the right, from the Republicans or the Democrats, we hear clever political posturing and dissembling if you will with as little relevance to the facts as possible to take a position that offends the fewest possible. We have no real national dialogue going on now.
We have -- let's take the issue of immigration. I'm not suggesting that you get into that debate. We do that enough. But the idea that national media and the partisans on both sides of the argument want to confuse illegal immigration and immigration.
In terms of free trade, they want to suggest there are two choices rather than look at the subject intelligently and acknowledge the facts. How do we return a vital, healthy marketplace of ideas to our political system?
DAVIS: It's back to the marketplace of ideas. It's back to insisting that politicians stop attacking each other, smearing each other, trying to destroy each other, and let's take immigration. We have not had an up or down vote on legislation about that issue. We haven't had a national debate, Lou. This is probably the only program where you see a national debate on that issue.
We don't debate issues anymore. We attack and destroy, and that's really what I talk about. In 2008, we may want to take a timeout -- the way I say to my 8-year-old when he has a tantrum -- on hyperpartisanship and actually get a Democrat and a Republican to combine together, maybe in the same presidency, and for one 4-year period, let's solve problems rather than destroying one another.
I love your idea from a president from one party and a vice president from another, and evenly divided cabinet representing both parties. The only thing I would offer is perhaps a huge swath there for independent thinkers as well as the two parties ...
DAVIS: Sure.
DOBBS: ...until we can learn to trust them both, of course, again.
Lanny Davis, you've written an important book, a terrific book.
DAVIS: Thank you, Lou.
DOBBS: It's a big book here, isn't it? It's very large in that screen. It's "Scandal: How Gotcha Politics is Destroying America." Lanny Davis, thanks.
DAVIS: Thank you.
DOBBS: We appreciate you being with us and wish you all the luck in the world.
DAVIS: And you keep up the good work too.
DOBBS: Thank you, sir. Good to have you here. Now the results of our poll. Eight-nine percent of you saying for national security reasons and to stop illegal immigration, you believe the entire southern border with Mexico should be fenced.
Thanks for being with us tonight. We hope you'll be with us here tomorrow. For all of us, thanks for watching. Good night from New York. "THE SITUATION ROOM" begins right now with Wolf Blitzer -- Wolf.
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