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Nancy Grace
New Evidence Emerges in Trenton Duckett`s Disappearance
Aired September 15, 2006 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, a parent`s worst nightmare. The mom says she tucks her 2-year-old into his crib, settles in for a movie in the very next room. Two hours later, the bedroom window found slashed, we think from the outside, the baby is gone. Then the mom, Melinda Duckett, commits suicide.
But tonight, we learn while Melinda Duckett refused to take a polygraph or tell police exactly where she had been, she did draw a crude map for her lawyer describing an eight-hour odyssey in the Ocala National Forest, taking with her only a diaper bag, baby Trenton and a shotgun. Hours later, she reports Trenton is gone.
And tonight, a Florida judge tells grieving witnesses, including an elderly widow, if they cry on the stand, they`ll be thrown out of court. Florida judge Susan Roberts (ph), you are in contempt!
But first tonight, brand-new clues in the disappearance of 2-year-old Trenton Duckett.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thus far, Melinda remains the only verified person who saw Trenton in the 26 or so hours leading up to his disappearance.
The possibility of Joshua`s involvement is probably here on the scale, and the possibility of the outside abduction is here on the scale, and the possibility of Melinda`s involvement is up higher on the scale.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight. Tonight, brand-new clues developing in the case of the missing Florida boy, Trenton Duckett. Tonight, we learn that his mom, pictured here, Melinda Duckett, told her own lawyer about an incredible odyssey, an eight-hour trek into the Ocala National Forest. She took with her a diaper bag, the baby, and a shotgun -- drawing a crude map for her own lawyer. Tonight, we realize police are searching in that exact location.
Straight out to reporter with "The Daily Commercial," Marilyn Aciego. Marilyn, thanks for being with us. What can you tell us about this map and an eight-hour trip into the national forest?
MARILYN ACIEGO, "DAILY COMMERCIAL": Well, Nancy, it`s been reported by other media sources that she did tell her lawyer this, and I have been unable to confirm it. I have not been able to reach the lawyer myself. But sources are saying that she did this -- she drew this map and she went out there and spent this time in the forest the day he went missing.
GRACE: To Jean Casarez, Court TV news correspondent. What can you tell us about the Ocala National Forest, this map? Why was she in a forest with a diaper bag, a shotgun and a 2-year-old baby?
JEAN CASAREZ, COURT TV: Well, she had gotten a shotgun, and there is an outdoor target range near the Ocala National Forest, and allegedly, she was going out to do some target practice. But according to her attorney, she may have gotten lost and started driving around, not knowing exactly where she was, even possibly ending up in a shopping mall near Orlando, Florida. But she got herself back home, and later, she drew that map allegedly for her attorney of where she`d been. That attorney gave it to law enforcement.
GRACE: Joining us now, a very special guest, Josh Duckett. This is Trenton`s father. Tonight, there is a vigil, a prayer vigil to try to bring baby Trenton home. Josh, thank you for being with us. I know you must be heartbroken tonight. All you can do to bring your son home is to have a prayer vigil. Tell me what you hope to gain with the vigil.
JOSH DUCKETT, FATHER OF MISSING BOY: I mean, it just shows how much the community supports me and supports everything. I mean, we`re all working together for the same cause, and I mean, we`re just -- it`s another way for to us get his picture out there that much more and for the community to show how much they care and to help us get his picture out there that much more.
GRACE: Right now, a prayer vigil being attended by community, friends, relatives, all still hoping to find baby Trenton. You`re seeing live pictures. As you all know, it`s going on 15 or so days since baby Trenton was taken. Here`s the prayer vigil, so many people joined together.
Take a listen to what police had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Exhaustive investigative measures were taken by agents to try to independently verify Melinda`s timeline leading up to Trenton`s disappearance. A minimal number of specific areas as provided to us were investigated very early on in this investigation. Thus far, Melinda remains the only verified person who saw Trenton in the 26 or so hours leading up to his disappearance.
Investigators continue following up a lead, described as routine, where Melinda Duckett, Trenton and her Melinda`s 2000 Mitsubishi Eclipse were possibly seen in the Ocala forest sometime during the weekend of the reported abduction. Saturday, officials with Marion County (ph) SO (ph), Florida Department of Law Enforcement, Lake County sheriff`s office, Leesburg police, Fish and Wildlife Commission, Division of Forestry and 15 to 18 K-9 teams will be searching the area of Farley`s (ph) Lake, roadways and woods in the Ocala forest.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Back out to Jean Casarez. Jean, a lot has been made regarding the 10-inch slash in the window, the window screen. Do we have the results back as to whether that screen was cut from the outside or the inside?
CASAREZ: I don`t think the results are back yet. You know, today was the funeral. Tonight is the prayer service vigil. And if it has been released, police are not releasing it to the public. But the issue is, was that screen cut from the inside or was it cut from the outside, meaning an intruder went in to get the little baby.
GRACE: Back out to Trenton`s father. Josh Duckett is with us, and he is kind enough to join us from a prayer vigil for his son. He`s trying to raise awareness for everyone to be on alert for a 2000 silver Mitsubishi and wrack their memory as to whether they saw it the days before Trenton`s disappearance.
Josh, are you hopeful? Do you think Trenton can still be found alive?
DUCKETT: Oh, yes. I mean, we`re 100 percent hopeful. I mean, we`re keeping our hope alive and continuing to move forward. I mean, it`s time to stay positive and not get negative about anything.
GRACE: And Josh, tell me how the search has progressed since you and I last talked.
DUCKETT: They`ve located another area to search, and they`ve been pouring the people in there to search. And so far, it`s turned up nothing. I mean, nothing of any significance. So I mean, in a sense, that kind of gives us that much more hope because they`re doing the searches and they`re not finding anything. So I mean, that gives us more hope.
GRACE: Hey, Josh, I got a lot of hope the other night when I learned that a little stuffed animal had been found because, you know, we have that picture of Trenton with the blue teddy bear. And I was hopeful that was some clue. But have you learned whether or not that stuffed animal was actually Trenton`s?
DUCKETT: No. I`ve seen the stuffed animal myself, and I don`t feel that it was anything that Trenton had. It was described to me differently than what it appeared when they showed me.
GRACE: And Josh, the search that`s going to be mounted tomorrow, where is it, and will you be part of that?
DUCKETT: It`s going to be held in the Ocala National Forest, in an area similar to where they searched today -- or yesterday, I mean. And I`m not going to attend. I`ll be at the police station and out doing more flyers and continuing with that. But I will be in contact with the agents that are up there (INAUDIBLE) participating in the search.
GRACE: Everyone, with us, Trenton`s father, Josh Duckett. If you have any information regarding Trenton, the toll-free number is 1-800-CALL- FBI. Right now, there`s a $5,000 reward.
And back out to Trenton`s father, Josh. I understand that you are trying to raise money to help bring the reward up higher. What are you planning to do?
DUCKETT: We`ve been holding fund-raisers and stuff like that to help draw more money and help with all that. We`re doing -- we`ve so far set up car washes and various fund-raisers just to try and collect money so that we can help that.
GRACE: I understand you`re having a car wash on Saturday. Everyone, he is trying to raise money for this reward by having a car wash. It will be at Pat Sales (ph), U.S. Highway 27 in Leesburg, 10:00 AM until 2:00 PM tomorrow. All donations go toward this fund. Just think about it, this father trying to find his 2-year-old boy, having a car wash, washing cars to raise money to up the reward.
I want to go back out to Marilyn Aciego, reporter with "The Daily Commercial." Marilyn, I want to get back on the fact that police are now looking in the Ocala National Forest, the same location where Melinda Duckett says she took the child for eight hours just driving around with a shotgun?
ACIEGO: Well, she was out looking for a shooting range that is located in a pretty rural area of the forest. And apparently, she was unable to find it and somehow got lost, ended up taking I-75 to Florida`s turnpike, and then claims she went to Altimont Mall after that. But you would have to take another road from Florida`s turnpike to get to Altimont mall. You cannot take the turnpike to get to Altimont mall.
GRACE: Here is how Melinda Duckett tells her lawyer she spent the day. She and Trenton went to an ATM, drove to a shooting range, couldn`t find it, stopped by a mall, where she changed his diapers, became confused and disoriented and drove for eight hours, finally taking Trenton home to Windemere Villas (ph) complex.
Back out to Trenton`s father, Josh Duckett. Was she an avid shooter? I mean, did she typically take the baby to target practice?
DUCKETT: No, the whole time that I was with her, she actually never shotgunned the whole time that I was with her. So I don`t know if this was a new hobby that she had collected. But I mean, it raised a flag with me. I mean, why would you take a 2-year-old to a shotgun -- or a shooting range even?
GRACE: Take a listen to what police had to say today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The lead is being described as routine. But as opposed to other leads, it`s a couple notches probably above that mainly because the reported sighting or the possible sighting is the same weekend of the reported abduction. So we`re talking about the Ocala National Forest, and we`re talking about Melinda and her vehicle possibly being seen at that location during the reported abduction time.
The mother and child were in the car, and a partial, at least, conversation took place between the eyewitness and the parties. So the lead investigators or a couple of the lead investigators did the talking to this eyewitness, and that`s good enough for us. We`ve got to check it out. They felt very comfortable with the information that they received, so for the rest of our team, we have to go with that and we`re going to go with that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Back out to Marilyn Aciego with "The Daily Commercial." Marilyn, it`s my understanding that there are actually two potential witnesses that state they saw Melinda Duckett in the car with Trenton out in the park. Is that correct?
ACIEGO: There have been leads that have came in, Nancy, but we have been unable to confirm those, at this point.
GRACE: OK. It`s my understanding -- out to Jean Casarez -- that regarding these two potential witnesses, they don`t know if it was Friday, Saturday or Sunday. Police don`t want to limit the time because they could lose leads that way. But Jean, this area she says she was driving around, it`s a very large area. How do they plan to search it?
CASAREZ: It`s a huge area. I think they`re going to have at least 30 people and they`re going to have some dogs, Nancy, search dogs or cadaver dogs. As you know, both are for different purposes. But it`s a very large area.
But you know, Nancy, one issue -- we can confirm that there was an ad in the newspaper in the beginning of August for a car seat that she put in for the little 2-year-old. We don`t know if it was an infant car seat and she got a child car seat, and that`s how she had the little child in her car. But remember, that was up for sale. So how was the little Trenton in the car?
GRACE: You know, excellent point.
Let`s go out to the lines, Liz. Let`s go out to Betty in Canada. Hi, Betty.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Nice to talk to you.
GRACE: Thank you, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, something`s been on my mind. Correct me if I`m wrong, but didn`t Melinda`s grandmother last week when you interviewed her -- didn`t she say that Melinda and the baby were with her all the day that -- the same day that he went missing?
GRACE: Yes, as a matter of fact, she did. As I recall, the Saturday before -- and correct me if I`m wrong, Marilyn Aciego. The Saturday before Trenton went missing, the grandmother says that they were at her home throughout the day, until around 4:00 on Saturday, right, Marilyn?
ACIEGO: Yes, that`s correct, Nancy. But the instance that we`re talking about, with her looking for the shooting range, was apparently supposed to be on Sunday, the day Trenton actually went missing.
GRACE: OK, got you. Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After the officers and search teams went up there yesterday, they realized two K-9 teams and the searchers that we had just weren`t sufficient to cover the area. So we had to plan for a greater number of people. We wanted to have the Marion County sheriff`s office with us from the beginning on the planning of it, and that`s why we had to have these meetings and organize all the K-9 teams. And we`ve -- we`re pretty sure we`ve got all that firmed up now, and we`re going to be ready to start that at 8:00 o`clock in the morning.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Let`s go out to our G-men joining us tonight, all former federal agents, Jack Trimarco, Mike Brooks and Harold Copus, all veteran and well respected when they left the FBI. Gentlemen, take a look at this screen that my staff so kindly cut for me to the tune of 10 inches. Liz, if you could take that banner down so the men can see this? Ten inches on this cut is exactly that. I mean, when you see this, it`s very hard to imagine getting a baby through from here to here. It`s just -- it`s very difficult to conceive of that.
Out to you, Mike Brooks. Not only your comments on the screen cut, but also the difficulty of a search that huge, that expansive in the Ocala National Forest.
MIKE BROOKS, FORMER FBI, FORMER D.C. POLICE: Well, I`ll tell you, Nancy, on the cut, it almost seems impossible to me that they could anybody out of there, especially a 2-year-old out of that little cut. I mean, that seems impossible, whether it be from the inside or outside.
And going with the search, it`s an 11-mile-by-200-yard area that they`re going to search. And we just saw the pictures of the forest. It`s extremely thick. And we heard Captain Rockefeller said that they only had two K-9 teams. Now supposed to have between 15 and 18 K-9 teams tomorrow.
And I can guarantee you right now, they are planning how they`re going to go about this search. It`s an extremely thick-wooded area. They are going to have the rangers with them, who know that forest better than anyone else. And when they go in there, they`re also going to have some folks that will be able to tell whether or not anyone has been through that area recently. They`ll have some trackers with them because some of the rangers are actually taught to be trackers. They will go through there, look at that area, most likely a grid-type search, and look for anything at all -- cigarette butts, clothing, anything at all that could be of evidentiary value.
GRACE: Back out to Josh Duckett, standing by. This is Trenton`s father. Josh, did she smoke? Do you know if your wife was smoking?
DUCKETT: Yes, she smoked. To my knowledge, she smoked.
GRACE: And Josh, when was the last time you actually got to see baby Trenton?
DUCKETT: The last weekend of June was the last weekend.
GRACE: Back out to the G-men, Jack Trimarco, Mike Brooks, Harold Copus. You know -- to Jack Trimarco -- Mike just said something very interesting, the fact that the trackers would be able to tell -- I mean, think about it, the Ocala National Forest, if you walk 30 feet off the road and leave a child, how can they possibly see markings of that? How do they do that?
JACK TRIMARCO, FORMER FBI PROFILER, POLYGRAPH UNIT CHIEF: Well, Nancy, sadly, if there`s a body out there, there`ll be a decomposition and it will be very apparent to anyone within 100 yards of that body that they`re getting close. And so sometimes nature takes its toll. But unless that -- unless that body was buried and well buried, and I mean very well buried because in the forest, it could become unearthed -- and of course, this is -- you know, we`re looking at the darkest scenario. We`re hoping that little Trenton comes walking home, but we know that the more times that a child -- the more time that a child is gone, the less likely they`re going to come back. Of course...
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If anybody has any information, whether they think it`s important or not, just come to the police. They may have seen Melinda or Trenton, anything that could be helpful in the investigation. We just -- we want Trenton home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Back out to Josh Duckett. This is Trenton`s father. He is joining us tonight in the pouring rain at the town square in Leesburg, Florida, near Orlando. Tonight, a prayer vigil is being held, and he is joining us live from that vigil, begging for help. Tomorrow, this young man is even planning to mount a car wash to raise money to try to find his son. There you see live shots of the vigil that Josh has helped arrange, everyone hoping to bring the baby home.
Josh, I know you`re about to go give a speech, and I just want to thank you again, so many people wanting to help, so many people caring about baby Trenton. You said earlier, Josh, that you had not known your wife to go take target practice. Did you have any idea that she was taking the baby to target practice with a shotgun.
DUCKETT: No, not at all, not to my knowledge. I had no knowledge until all of this arose that she had even had a gun, that she had even been around guns. I mean, it was 100 percent new to my knowledge.
GRACE: What I don`t understand is, if she wanted to go do target practice, why take a baby to target practice with a shotgun? I mean, wouldn`t have you taken care of the baby?
DUCKETT: I would have gladly taken care of the baby, but I mean, once again, it comes down to the bad blood that was between us. She didn`t want me to have him. So I mean, to me, I would have never taken him to a rifle range.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DUCKETT: We`re not looking to put anybody in jail right now. I mean, our whole goal is to return Trenton. And if somebody`s got him, they can take him to the police department, they can take him to a fire station, they can take him to anyplace and return him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Tonight, the search still on for 2-year-old Trenton Duckett. Let`s go out to the lines. Let`s go to Suzette in Wisconsin. Hi, Suzette.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I was just wondering, if she put him to sleep like she claims, why did she put him to sleep in denim shorts and not in pajamas?
GRACE: You know, that`s an excellent question. Let`s go out to psychotherapist Dr. Leslie Austin, who has a great deal of experience in child and adult psychology. What about it, Leslie?
LESLIE AUSTIN, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, it`s hard to say. I think from all the behaviors we`ve heard described, she may not have been the most stable, predictable mom or person. So maybe she was sloppy. Maybe she was planning to take him out. We don`t really know. But what we do know was that her behavior wasn`t consistent and it wasn`t the behavior of a mom looking after her baby`s safety and well (ph) care .
GRACE: Let`s go to Steve in Georgia. Hi, Steve.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good evening, Nancy.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My question is, she drove around eight hours in a national forest in a Mitsubishi Eclipse, which has approximately a 10 or 12-gallon gas tank. Where did she fuel the car at?
GRACE: I couldn`t hear the end of your question.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I said, Where did she fuel the car at? Where did she buy fuel for the car? Eight or ten-hour trip around the...
GRACE: Excellent point. Excellent point. To Mike Brooks. Wouldn`t there be a gas receipt or some spotting of her, or is this just totally bogus?
BROOKS: One of the things they need to do, Nancy, is she was on Interstate 75. They`re going to have cameras on Interstate 75. They`re going to have cameras outside the Sears at Altimont mall. And they`re also going to have cameras at the T.D. Waterhouse Center in Orlando. That`s what they need to look at.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was just a ball of joy, I mean, full of energy and loved playing, loved having fun. And he loved to be around other kids and family members and -- if you turned your back for one second, you were chasing him down because he was in high gear, running.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Tonight, breaking developments in the search for Trenton Duckett. We know that police are mounting one of the largest searches ever in their history tomorrow, throughout the Ocala National Forest. They`re bringing in multiple law enforcement units working together, 15 to 18 canines combing the Ocala National Forest.
Why? We now learn, although Trenton`s mom, Melinda Duckett, would not tell us or police her exact whereabouts before the boy went missing, she did, in fact, draw a crude map that she gave to her lawyer detailing an eight-hour driving odyssey, throughout the Ocala National Forest. With her, the baby, a diaper bag, and a shotgun.
She says she became confused and disoriented when she got lost. Shortly after that, the baby was reported missing.
Let`s go out to the G men joining us, all respected former federal FBI agents, Mike Brooks, Harold Copus, and Jack Trimarco.
To Harold Copus, let`s talk about that screen one more time. That may have forensic evidence that could put an end to all the speculation. We don`t know if Melinda Duckett was responsible for this or if, in that two- hour window, with her watching a movie in the next room with two adult males, somebody came through the window and took the baby through a 10-inch hole in the screen.
Let`s talk about the hole in the screen, Harold. What about the possibility, if you`re pulling a child through that doesn`t have on a shirt, as the caller called in and pointed out, Suzette from Wisconsin, doesn`t have on long pants, and you`re pulling him through a screen, wouldn`t there be fiber? Wouldn`t there be some type of skin or blood on that screen, Harold?
HAROLD COPUS, FORMER FBI AGENT: Oh, there certainly could be. And what we have to find out is, was that screen a mesh or was it a wire? And we understand it`s a mesh.
GRACE: Mesh.
COPUS: It may reduce that. But, Nancy, I`ll tell you, the thing that we haven`t focused on that much is that, for that abductor, they would have had to put one arm through that screen, because it`s not big enough for two, and that crib was parallel to that window, which means that baby was parallel.
So you would have to reach in, reach down 30 inches, pick that baby up, pivot that baby so it`d be perpendicular now to the wall, and bring it out. That`s almost an impossible task.
GRACE: You know, the way you just described that, Harold, it does seem impossible.
COPUS: Unfortunately, it does.
GRACE: Back out to Marilyn Aciego with the "Daily Commercial," Marilyn, is there any evidence the window -- and I asked Melinda Duckett this -- had the screen been removed from the window? And she told me, point blank, no. Do we have any evidence that the screen, there was an attempt to pry if off the window?
ACIEGO: No, there`s no evidence of that at all, Nancy.
GRACE: Marilyn, while we`re still on the screen, it was a mesh screen, correct?
ACIEGO: Yes.
GRACE: OK. So there`s less likelihood we`re going to get DNA or fiber off the screen. But aren`t we correct that it was only 10 inches, that the child would have had to come through 10 inches?
ACIEGO: Yes, Nancy. It was a very small slit, and it would have been very hard for anybody to reach through it and pull a child through it, especially if it was a stranger.
GRACE: You`re seeing a live shot from a prayer vigil being held right now. There is Josh Duckett. This is Trenton`s father. Hundreds of people have shown up. This is being held on the town square there in Leesburg. It`s pouring rain, and they`re out there trying to bring awareness to this case.
And can you imagine having your child gone, and all you can do is go out to a gas station or a store and have a car wash, at $2 to $5 a car wash, to raise money for the reward? That`s what they`re trying to do, people, to raise money to find this little boy. All the while, police are mounting a search tomorrow in Ocala National Forest.
Let`s go out to the lawyers. Joining us tonight, Renee Rockwell, veteran defense attorney in multiple jurisdictions, and Darren Kavinoky, defense attorney, as well. Darren joining us from the L.A. jurisdiction.
To both of you -- and first to you, Renee, I thank God the lawyer came forward with this crude map, as it has been described, that Melinda Duckett tried to draw all the places she had been with the baby and the shotgun in the back seat. What about attorney-client privilege, Renee?
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: One could argue that this privilege would extend past her death. However, what we have here is not a completed crime, if there is a crime. We`ve got an ongoing investigation, and I think it`s more important that the lawyer came forward and revealed this information because we still have a child that`s missing.
GRACE: OK. If you don`t think there`s a crime with the child being at best taken out by a stranger out of the window screen, and everybody mounting a gigantic search, then I suggest to you, Ms. Rockwell -- and I know you`re very experienced -- that you consult the law books. It`s called kidnap, OK?
And let me give you a shot at it, Darren. I believe she may be right regarding the attorney-client privilege going to the grave. But what about the possibility of an ongoing crime? Doesn`t that supersede ACP, attorney- client privilege?
DARREN KAVINOKY, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, I`m very surprised to hear that the attorney would reveal any of the confidences that the client entrusted with that lawyer. And I understand the motivation behind it.
GRACE: You`re surprised?
KAVINOKY: But absolutely surprised that that lawyer would go forward and release that information.
GRACE: You wouldn`t tell police if you thought you could save this boy`s life, if this child were out there wandering in the Ocala National Forest? He`s 2 years old, Darren.
KAVINOKY: You know, it`s an incredible dilemma. And you`re absolutely right. And I`m a father, as well. And my heart would ache.
GRACE: I don`t see the dilemma.
KAVINOKY: Well, it is a dilemma, because an attorney, as you know, is charged with maintaining the confidences and secrets of their clients, even at peril to their own self.
GRACE: But wait. Isn`t there an exception for ongoing crime? The attorney can`t be part of a conspiracy to keep a crime secret, Darren.
KAVINOKY: No, I would absolutely agree with that, but we`re talking about releasing -- and we`re speculating quite a bit here. We really don`t know what`s gone on with this child, but...
GRACE: We know the child is gone.
KAVINOKY: No question about that. No question about that.
GRACE: That`s...
KAVINOKY: But in terms of the lawyer`s duty to maintain the confidences of their client, that`s an important duty.
GRACE: OK. You know what? As soon as I go commit a felony -- sorry, Renee Rockwell, but I`m hiring him, because even if I go down by an Uzi or machine gun when I`m robbing the bank, he`s not telling, and you are. Explain yourself.
ROCKWELL: Nancy, I think she`s obligated. The young woman is dead. However, this is an ongoing crime. This baby could be out walking in the forest. We need to find the baby.
There`s a balancing act, and I think any judge would command this attorney to divulge anything that this woman has told her, especially location, possibly where the baby might be.
GRACE: OK. Let the lawyers duke it out in the commercial break. Let`s go out to the lines, Liz.
Laurie in Florida, hi, Laurie.
CALLER: Hi, Nancy. I have a question. I was wondering that the shotgun that she took to the Ocala National Forest, if, a, the police have it, and, b, if they`ve tested it and if it`s been fired.
GRACE: It`s my understanding they have it, that she had bought it recently, and it had never been fired, yes, no, Jean Casarez?
CASAREZ: Yes, you are exactly right, that is what law enforcement is saying, that it was the one she bought, and it was never fired, and it was not the weapon she used to kill herself.
GRACE: Let`s go back out to the G-men. Mike Brooks, as a district attorney, we had to get certified to carry a weapon whether we carried it or not, target practice with a shotgun, thoughts?
BROOKS: Well, Nancy, .20-gauge shotgun to me is not a target kind of rifle. Now, if it was a .12-gauge, you had rifled slugs, those kind of things, yes, you could use that for target practice, or a handgun, or a rifle. But normally a .20-gauge shotgun is not taken out for target practice, period.
GRACE: Out to Leslie Austin, psychotherapist. You know, the two gentlemen friends -- and they have been cleared, to my understanding -- Captain Rockefeller told me this morning one has gone onto the military, one has passed a polygraph, and their alibis work out. Neither of them knew -- saw Trenton in the room. Neither of them saw him in the room. Would you have expected her to show them the baby?
AUSTIN: Well, not necessarily. You know, it`s possible that Trenton disappeared earlier than we think and earlier than the time she reported him. Really, we really don`t know when he went missing. She was the only known person to be with him for many hours before he was reported missing. So the time frame there, I don`t know, and she might not necessarily have shown them to him.
GRACE: And you know what? I want to clarify. This young lady apparently did not attempt suicide, Leslie, in the past. She had threatened suicide, not attempted, but threatened suicide. We also know the child spent four days in foster care, taken away from her, ultimately given back. What does that mean to you?
AUSTIN: Obviously, the threats weren`t idle ones. Just because somebody threatens doesn`t mean you ignore them; you need to take it very seriously. Something built up in her and she couldn`t stand it. I think she was very, very upset, and I think it shows that she was guilty, unfortunately.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The prosecution says his father purchased the tickets in his name, and he used those as his mode of transportation to come to Bartow and commit the murders.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, my God! Oh, my God! I don`t know what`s happened. Oh, my God!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Calm down.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My daughter, my son, my son-in-law, and my partner, they`re all dead!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The defense contends there`s no hard evidence to prove Serrano committed the crimes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: An office grudge goes insane; it erupts into a quadruple shooting. And now, to top it all off, the judge in the case tells the victims and the witnesses, if they cry on the stand, she will grant a mistrial and they are out of court. An incredible case, an incredible order by the judge.
Out to Court TV`s Jean Casarez, what`s the latest? Judge, you are in contempt.
CASAREZ: Well, Nancy, this all started because the mother who discovered her daughter, her son, her son-in-law, her husband`s partner all dead, took the stand. And the defense was concerned that her emotion would prejudice their client.
So it was the prosecutor that said, "Your honor, we will allow this witness to testify outside of the presence of the jury." And so that`s what`s happened. And then the judge said, if you want to testify before the jury, you can, but if you show any emotion at all, I will declare a mistrial.
GRACE: Take a listen to this.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I saw papers on the floor. And I started to (INAUDIBLE) everything that`s on the floor. Then I saw Diane.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where was Diane?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Diane, she was on the floor in a pool of blood.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did you do when you saw your daughter laying in the blood?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I saw her, I hugged her, and I said, "My God, what did they do? I don`t know who did this to you, Diane."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was Diane dead, Ms. Dosso?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, she was.
In the other room, I saw George`s, with her feet sticking out a little bit of the door. Then...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is that George Patisso or George Gonsalves?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: George Gonsalves. George Patisso was next to him, and then I saw my son. I wanted to hug him, but I (INAUDIBLE) because I didn`t want to touch anything. I didn`t want to (INAUDIBLE) and I was even worse for me to do that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Once you saw them, were they dead, too?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, they were all dead. They were all dead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Back out to Court TV`s Jean Casarez. She`s been covering the case from the get-go. I`m talking about Circuit Court Judge Susan Roberts. So let me get this straight: This judge -- and you`ve got some of the witnesses that lost, let`s see, a son, a daughter, and a daughter-in-law because of this office shooting, right -- she says, if you cry, if you have any emotional outbursts, I`m granting a mistrial. What exactly happened in court?
CASAREZ: Well, the word was "breakdown." If you breakdown on the stand, I will declare a mistrial. So what happened, after she testified -- and she did well outside of the presence of the jury -- the prosecutor said, "Your honor, why can`t she testify in front of the jury? She did fine." And the judge said, "OK, it`s your choice, Mr. Prosecutor, because, if she does break down, I will declare that mistrial." And he noticed the video camera, because Court TV News is airing this trial live.
So the prosecutor and the defense attorney got together, and it was decided that they would air the videotape of her testimony before that jury, and that`s what happened. But now the rule is, you can`t break down on the stand or else there`s the possibility of that mistrial. But the defense says that is fair, because their client deserves a fair trial, not prejudiced.
GRACE: Let`s go out to the defense lawyers. Gee, I wonder what they`re going to say, Renee Rockwell from the Atlanta jurisdiction, Darren Kavinoky out of the New York jurisdiction, to both of you. How can you expect in a case where four people have been gunned down execution-style -- it was an office dispute -- this executive apparently had been siphoning up to a quarter million dollars and had been found out. Long story short, four people dead.
Have you ever in your life, Renee Rockwell, heard a judge say, "If you cry, I`m granting a mistrial"?
ROCKWELL: No, Nancy, what she was talking about is if you break down. Now, what this judge is doing -- and let me disagree with you, Nancy -- she`s trying so hard to just try this case once. She doesn`t want the jury to be moved by emotion; she wants the jury to be moved by facts and law.
GRACE: Can you give me one case, one case, in precedent, either one of you two, that says a victim cannot cry on the stand or there will be a mistrial? Listening.
ROCKWELL: I can`t give you a case, Nancy.
(CROSSTALK)
ROCKWELL: We`re talking about cases that have been shut down because people just tear up and the jury tears up when they see everybody crying and carrying on.
GRACE: Was there a mistrial?
ROCKWELL: Yes...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Have you ever had a mistrial because a murder victim family member cried, yes, no?
ROCKWELL: Not on the stand. You can see mistrials when they`re crying in the back of the courtroom.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Have you had a mistrial when a victim cried in the courtroom?
ROCKWELL: No. No, I have not.
GRACE: OK. Darren, have you had a mistrial when a crime victim cried in the courtroom?
KAVINOKY: No, but the judge was 100 percent correct in this ruling. And let me tell you why.
GRACE: So you`ve never heard of it, but she`s right?
KAVINOKY: I think she`s absolutely right. And here`s why: The jurors are instructed that they are not to base their decision on any kind of sympathy or on their passions being excited. And this kind of a ruling is designed to protect that.
GRACE: OK.
KAVINOKY: And let`s remember: We`re still in the guilt phase. This is not the penalty phase, where victims often read these victim impact statements and they`re expected to be emotional.
GRACE: But, no, no, no, this is not the victim impact statement.
KAVINOKY: Not at all.
GRACE: This is the facts in the case where someone came and saw the crime scene. That is admissible into court, and I`ve heard from neither one of you any statute or case law to support this judge.
Back to Jean Casarez, Jean, is it true that this judge has gotten -- what rating has she gotten, as far as a judge on the bench?
CASAREZ: Well, according to the local newspaper, which is the "Lakeland Ledger" here in central Florida, they do a poll every year on the judges. And it`s members of the bar that vote as to what judge they believe is good in different areas. She`s been allegedly at the bottom of the list, according to this newspaper, every year, except last year she was next to the bottom of the list.
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GRACE: Tonight, 2-year-old Florida boy Trenton Duckett, missing since August 27, vanishing from his own bedroom while his mom in the next room watching a movie. The desperate search goes on for Trenton Duckett.
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GRACE: Tonight, it`s a parent`s worst nightmare to tuck their 2-year- old child into his crib, go in the den to watch a movie, and then to find the bedroom screen slashed, the baby gone. Tonight, the search for 2-year- old Trenton Duckett.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It hurts a lot, because, I mean, I don`t know where my son`s at. And I think that`s the worst part would have to be not knowing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The possibility of Joshua`s involvement is probably here on the scale, and the possibility of the outside abduction is here on the scale, and the possibility of Melinda`s involvement is up higher on the scale.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If anybody has any information, whether they think it`s important or not, just come to the police.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thus far, Melinda remains the only verified person who saw Trenton in the 26 or so hours leading up to his disappearance.
GRACE: The search goes on for 2-year-old Trenton Duckett, even in the wake of his mother`s suicide and the disturbing development that she placed the child`s car seat for sale in an ad in a local paper before he went missing.
It is reported that the investigation is taking its toll on police, many of them working seven days a week, 16 hours a day to find this boy. Won`t you help us tonight? What can we do to help in the search for Trenton?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anyone out there that may have any bit of information, there is no lead that will go unturned.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We want him back, and that`s our whole goal, and that`s the whole focus of this. And, I mean, even with the other events, we`re still keeping our head on straight and moving forward with this, because we got to continue to think positive and continue to move forward.
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GRACE: Tonight, we pause to remember Army Sergeant Duane Dreasky, just 31, from Novi, Michigan. He loved life, including the military, martial arts, scuba diving, and sky diving, leaving behind a grieving family and widow. Duane Dreasky, American hero.
Thank you to all of our guests, especially Trenton`s father, Josh Duckett. Our biggest thank you to you, for being with us, inviting us into your homes. Nancy Grace signing off for tonight and for the week. See you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
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