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The Situation Room
U.S. Troops Diverted to Baghdad to Stem Bloodshed; Dozens More Bodies Found in Baghdad; President Bush Fights Republican Senate Rebellion on Terror Suspect Interrogation; President Bush Says Suspects Won't be Interrogated Unless Congress Acts; Muslims Criticize Comments by Pope; Don't Eat Spinach; Outbreak Linked to Spinach From Natural Selection Foods
Aired September 15, 2006 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks very much, Lou. And to our viewers, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM where new pictures and information are arriving all the time. Standing by CNN reporters across the United States and around the world to bring you tonight's top stories.
Happening now, U.S. troops are flown into a desperate battle against death squads. It's 3:00 a.m. in Baghdad. Do commanders have all the troops they need in Iraq?
Around the world, Muslims shout out their fury at Pope Benedict XVI. It's 1:00 a.m. Saturday at the Vatican. Did the pontiff go too far?
And fight over fat. One of the world's top fashion shows forces models now to put on the pounds. It is 7:00 p.m. in New York where our Jeanne moos weighs in on the subject.
I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Bound and tortured, dozens more bodies turned up on the streets of Baghdad today, victims of death squads who roam the city at will. Hard pressed U.S. troops are diverted from a hard hit province to defend a new front line, the streets of the capital. But are there enough U.S. troops to do the job?
CNN's Michael Ware is in Baghdad. Let's begin our coverage with our senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre -- Jamie.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, one of the top commanders in Iraq today admitted that a bleak assessment of what is going on in Anbar Province was right on target, but he did not agree with the recommendation of one Marine officer that more troops be dispatched to the area.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE (voice-over): Even with another spike in violence in Baghdad, causing fresh American casualties the top commander in Iraq, General George Casey insists he has enough forces, according to President Bush. GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I asked General Casey today, have you got what you need? He said yes, I got what I need.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's not a commander in the world who wouldn't say he could use more forces.
MCINTYRE: But in a video conference with Pentagon reporters Casey's deputy, Lieutenant General Pete Chiarelli admitted the 30,000 U.S. troops fighting in Anbar Province west of Baghdad are unable to secure the insurgent strong hold. General Chiarelli was acknowledging a gloomy assessment contained in a secret report written by a highly respected Marine intelligence officer, Colonel Pete Devlin.
LT. GEN. PETER CHIARELLI, MULTI-NATIONAL CORPS, IRAQ: Pete is right on target. I don't believe there's any military strategy alone. Any (INAUDIBLE) operations we can run alone that will create the conditions for victory which we must have.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: what is your reaction to Pete Devlin's view that another division is needed in Anbar to do the job?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's Pete's opinion. That's Pete's opinion.
MCINTYRE: An opinion that will go up the chain of command to Chiarelli and then likely be turned down. Because adding another division roughly 18,000 troops, conflicts with the current strategy of securing Baghdad first.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: In fact General Chiarelli admitted that hundreds of troops had been shifted from Anbar Province to Baghdad because the capital city is now the priority -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Jamie McIntyre thanks very much.
And joining us now our correspondent in Baghdad Michael Ware. Michael, you're familiar with what General Chiarelli told reporters over at the Pentagon. Mainly that there's an important reason why troops have been redeployed away from the provinces like al Anbar toward Baghdad.
MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right, Wolf. General Chiarelli is saying the focus is Baghdad. Now this is a message that I have been hearing for the last month from the highest levels of U.S. military intelligence from the military commanders themselves and from the State Department here. They are saying that as far as they are concerned the front line is Baghdad, Baghdad, Baghdad. That right now the war is going to be won or lost in the capital.
Indeed they say that for al Qaeda it's the same priority. That they -- if you ask al Qaeda what their targets were it would be a similar answer, Baghdad, Baghdad and then al Anbar. However, I think that misconstrues al Qaeda's true intention. We just need to speak to al Qaeda or read their own information.
They make it clear that Baghdad to them is just one theater of many. Their base is al Anbar. The real story between the concentration of troops here in Iraq, according to senior State Department and military intelligence officials I have spoken to is that they need to restore order in the capital so that they can develop a popular base of support for a perilous prime minister.
The prime minister here is essentially propped up by the U.S. He does not have his own support base nor does he have his own militia. So if security can be delivered to the people, then it's hope from the U.S. side that credit can be given to this prime minister and that that will give him a wedge against the militias which dominate and naturally control his government -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Michael, one of the most gruesome horrifying situations that has developed in Iraq and specifically this week the dozens and dozens of bodies that have been picked up, clearly tortured, mutilated, what is going on here?
WARE: Well, this is a death squad. This is the sectarian war. I mean you've got extremists on both sides. Al Qaeda on the Sunni side and you've got extremists Shia elements buried within the government and according to the U.S. ambassador here backed by Iran trying to polarize the general community. Now, they are doing that through these sectarian killings.
The problem is that it's almost impossible for the U.S. military to stop no matter what they are saying about the success or as they deem it the progress of operations together, the battle for Baghdad, the killings continue. The military tries to minimize this by saying that well in the areas we are in it is less. However, there is fundamental flaw to their plan.
The U.S. troops in conjunction with the Iraqi troops, go into an area, clear it, seize it, hold it. The next phase is they hand it over back to the Iraqi police and the Ministry of Interior Troops, the very people that the American administration alleges are connected to the death squads in the first place, Wolf.
BLITZER: This notion, though, I can understand the killing because in every civil war there's a lot of killing but the mutilation and the torture, what is behind this? Why are Sunnis doing this to Shia and Shia doing it to Sunnis, the whole nature of the torture and mutilation?
WARE: Well this is something I have been talking to particularly some Shia militia members I know. I mean I have been wondering myself what is in the mind of the men who is doing the torturing. I mean he must have a room somewhere where he brings in these victims and tortures them, puts drills through their knees, through their arms, into their heads, for what purpose.
It's not to extract information. It's purely to send a message. Now, al Qaeda and other extremist groups are doing the same thing on the other side. It's about provocation. The aim on both sides, for example, as the al Qaeda -- former al Qaeda leader, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi said, let's provoke the Shia. Get them to wise up, which seems to be working. It's only this that will awake the sleeping Sunni giant. So the extremists on both sides are mutilating victims on the other just to inflame and enrage their own populations -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Michael Ware reporting for us. Michael, be carefully over there. Thanks very much.
And tonight the commander in chief is fighting back against yet another revolt within the Republican ranks. He's insisting that his plan for tougher interrogation of detainees is critical to the war on terror. And he's dismissing critics' concerns about America's moral high ground as flawed logic in his words.
Let's bring in our White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux -- Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, the White House is already beginning to see small dividends on this all out campaign. The president of course trying to change the focus from the Iraq war to the larger war on terror, a slight bump in the polls his approval numbers. But now the White House is engaged in what political observers say is really a risky strategy. That is to take on the moderate Republicans over this very controversial issue of how to treat detainees.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX (voice-over): President Bush came out swinging. Offering an aggressive defense of his plan for tougher interrogations of detainees under U.S. custody making no apologies for his request to clarify the Geneva Conventions, the international treaty which defines how prisoners of war are to be treated.
BUSH: We're trying to clarify law. We're trying to set high standards not ambiguous standards.
MALVEAUX: It's all part of the president's recent strategy to get voters to focus on national security, a Republican strength and off of focusing on the unpopular Iraq war. With the midterm elections now just seven weeks away, Mr. Bush is trying to push tough anti- terrorism measures through Congress, banking on the belief that Americans will back him.
DAVID GERGEN, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL ADVISER: They have calculated if he puts more heat on the Congress he's more likely to get his own way. And secondly, that if they -- that if he's (INAUDIBLE) this belligerent, it will actually help his own standing with the public and in turn help Republicans in the fall campaign.
MALVEAUX: But what the president didn't count on was a revolt from top members of his own party, like possible 2008 presidential candidate John McCain over just how far he could go in asserting his executive power to spy on, imprison and interrogate terrorism suspects. Former Secretary of State Colin Powell broke his loyal silence, saying altering the Geneva Conventions would throw the moral basis of the U.S.'s war on terror in doubt.
BUSH: It's flawed logic. It just -- I simply can't accept that. It's unacceptable to think that there's any kind of comparison between the behavior of the United States of America and the action of Islamic extremists.
MALVEAUX: Senior administration officials insist the split within the party is just a bump in the road. They say history shows the American people back the tough talk on terror. So that's what the president dolled out in his hour-long news conference. Tough talk on the search for Osama bin Laden.
BUSH: We have been on the hunt and we'll stay on the hunt until we bring him to justice.
MALVEAUX: And on his refusal to sit down with Iran's president although the two men will be at the U.N. next week.
BUSH: No, I'm not going to meet with him.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX: Now, Wolf, it's unclear whether or not the strategy is going to work for the president but a senior GOP strategist told me this evening that every day the president talks about the broader war on terror is controversial as that may be and not the Iraq war, is a good day for the White House -- Wolf.
BLITZER: And coming up later we'll get a different perspective from Joe Biden, the Democratic senator. Suzanne thanks very much.
We have this important programming note to announce. I'll be speaking with President Bush about the war on terror, Iraq, lots more next week when he goes before the United Nations General Assembly. My one-on-one interview with President Bush will air Wednesday right here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Jack Cafferty is standing by in New York with "The Cafferty File" -- Jack.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Well, President Bush is not a happy camper. He's not getting his way with Congress when it comes to changing the law on U.S. treatment of suspected terrorists, so today the president decided that interrogations quote, "won't go forward" unless Congress passes laws that are more to his liking.
Translation, you don't let us redefine the Geneva Conventions, we won't question suspected terrorists. We won't keep you safe. Members of the administration are making a full court (ph) press to get what it calls the tools it needs to fight the war on terror. They want Congress to give approval to wiretapped terror suspects without getting a court warrant first and they want to redefine the Geneva Conventions. And they want it all done before the midterm elections.
Here's the question, what does it mean when President Bush says interrogation of terror suspects won't go forward unless Congress changes the law? E-mail your thoughts to CaffertyFile@CNN.com or go to CNN.com/CaffertyFile.
BLITZER: Jack, thank you, Jack Cafferty in New York. And coming up, outrage at the Vatican. The Pope's comments about Islam sparked protests across the globe.
Plus, spinach alert, a deadly outbreak that has now spread to 20 states. Our Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins us live to explain the symptoms, what you need to know.
And anti-U.S. tirades from anti-U.S. leaders gathered right now at a summit in Cuba. We'll tell you who is saying what.
Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Throughout the Muslim world tonight there's a tidal wave of fury at Pope Benedict XVI after he quoted a medieval text harshly critical of Islam. There are rallies in the streets, parliamentary resolutions, and concerns about what may happen next.
Let's bring in CNN's Zain Verjee. She is watching the story -- Zain.
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, a century's old conversation read out by the Pope has been received angrily by many Muslims.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(CHANTING)
VERJEE (voice-over): Angry chants from protesters after Friday prayers in Egypt. Down with the Pope, they shout, some of the scenes of outrage from Gaza, India, Lebanon, Turkey. Sparking this anger comments by Pope Benedict XVI about Islam and the prophet Muhammad. At a university lecture in Germany the Pope said quote, "show me just what Muhammad brought that was new and there you will find things only evil and inhuman such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."
He was quoting a 14th century Byzantine Christian emperor. Reaction in the Muslim world was swift and widespread.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
VERJEE: The (INAUDIBLE) in Egypt says the comments show the Pope's ignorance he says adding it's an insult to all prophets, would only worsen relations between Muslims and Christians. With condemnation and furor on the street and wide media coverage, the Vatican issued a statement saying the Pope didn't intend to offend anyone. That it was not the intention of the Holy Father to examine jihad and Muslim thought on it much less to offend Muslim believers.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a Pope who believes very strongly in rational inquiry into the truth. This talk was also a sort of challenge to Muslim whose say show me what it is in your religion that doesn't agree with this text.
VERJEE: Many Christian and Muslim leaders are urging all religious leaders to be cautious about what they say not to inflame the situation further, but some analysts say damage has already been done.
FAWAZ GERGES, SARAH LAWRENCE COLLEGE: I think it deepens and widens the gulf that exists between the world of Islam and the West.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VERJEE: Senior clerics from the Muslim world are demanding that the Pope make a personal apology and (INAUDIBLE) com is reporting a top Catholic Church official inside Turkey says the anger generated there may mean the Pope will have to cancel a planned trip to Turkey -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Zain thanks very much, Zain Verjee reporting. And still to come tonight here in THE SITUATION ROOM, the spinach alert, a killer bacteria spreads to more states. Tonight we're going to check in with our senior medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta. He's standing by with information you need to have.
Also, corruption and alcoholism, a congressman pleads guilty and checks into rehab. We'll tell you what is going on.
Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: It's killed before and it could kill again, fresh spinach in a bag, perhaps in your refrigerator right now. Just this afternoon several more states were added to the list of an E. coli breakout. There are now 95 confirmed cases in 20 states from as far East as New York and Maine to as far West as California and Oregon.
More now on the spinach scare from our senior medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta. A lot of our viewers, Sanjay, are confused. What is going on?
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SR. MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well you know a couple of things are probably happening. One is that this is obviously an outbreak that is continuing to increase in numbers. A lot of times the symptoms of an E. coli contamination don't appear for a few days after someone actually eats the spinach, so you're starting to see increased numbers as people have gotten sick from eating some of the contaminated spinach.
I also think, Wolf, part of what is happening here is as people have been watching your coverage they are saying to themselves well I've had some of those symptoms and I did have spinach and are starting to put it together for the first time going to their hospitals and getting confirmed as cases as well. We -- I have a feeling, Wolf, we're going to start to see more and more cases even greater numbers that we're seeing now. Of course, we're talking about E. coli, which can be a very problematic bacteria. For the most part it just resides in your intestines safely, but in rare cases it can be a very problematic bacteria. What struck me, Wolf, still you know even today you can still buy this fresh bagged spinach in the stores. There has not been a recall like you might see with bad medicine or a defective car part. This is still available in many stores, Wolf.
BLITZER: Well and the problem is that you can't simply wash it or cook it. You have to simply throw it away, is that right?
GUPTA: That is right and I asked specifically about that because a lot of times physicians will tell their patients look, if you cook things adequately you're going to kill all the bacteria. That part remains true, Wolf, but what is interesting here is they made a conscious decision to say look if someone simply takes the spinach out of the bag, they would be contaminating their hands just in that process. They subsequently might take their hands and touch their mouth and they might touch their child and cause a spread of the bacteria that way. They're saying the best bet is to give up the 3.50 or however much you spent for the spinach, toss it out because you can contaminate yourself in ways that you might not even guess.
BLITZER: Why aren't they recalling all those bags of spinach? And how much longer will this last?
GUPTA: I asked that same question and I was actually a little surprised that they have decided not to do that. Now part of the problem is they are really confused exactly where the contamination took place, exactly part in the chain. So they're not sure what they should recall. Should they recall all bagged spinach? Perhaps that would be the answer.
I asked them. They said they are not ready to do that yet. They don't have enough evidence. But Wolf, even since we spoke two hours ago the numbers have gone up dramatically. They might be starting to accumulate the evidence to warrant a recall. We might be hearing about that later tonight or over the next couple of days.
BLITZER: You're a physician. What should people do if they think they might have eaten some spinach, bagged spinach, in the last few days? What kind of symptoms should they be looking out for?
GUPTA: Well the symptoms can be vague sometimes, Wolf. And let me share the good news first and that is that most people who ate this are going to be just fine. If they do get some of the symptoms, which might include diarrhea, might include some kidney problems, it might include vomiting, a general feeling of not feeling well, then most times it's just going to resolve on their own.
If you're developing -- if you're getting sick and not getting any better over a couple of days you definitely need to see the doctor. You need to try and keep as many fluids down as possible. There really isn't a good option in terms of antibiotics. Most people will just sort of resolve on their own, but do report it because the health authorities need to know where these new cases are developing. BLITZER: Dr. Sanjay Gupta thanks very much...
GUPTA: Thank you.
BLITZER: ... Sanjay, for that important information. We have an important programming note for our viewers. Tune in Sunday night here on CNN 10:00 p.m. Eastern for Sanjay Gupta's special report. It's entitled "Genius, Quest For Extreme Brain Power". If you like Sanjay Gupta, and all of you do, you're going to want to see this. This is important television and fascinating information.
Just ahead, once alive, now at odds, President Bush and Colin Powell. Do they have a rift that is widening as General Powell blasts the president over the treatment of terror detainees? I'll speak with Democratic Senator Joe Biden about this war over terror.
And we'll have the skinny as well, the skinny on the ban on too skinny models. Yes, one major fashion center turns a weighty issue on its head. If you're too skinny you can't wear their clothes. We're going to tell you what is going on. Jeanne Moos with that. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Now we're getting new information on the fear of E. coli in spinach. Let's bring back Dr. Sanjay Gupta, our senior medical correspondent. Only in the past few minutes this information coming in -- Sanjay.
GUPTA: A true developing story, Wolf, AP reporting now, The Associated Press, that the federal health officials have linked the E. coli outbreak to a specific food company, Natural Selection -- Natural Selective -- Selection Foods. I want to make sure I got that right -- Natural Selection Foods. That's the name of the company now. This is part of the investigation that takes place in a situation like this, Wolf. Actually being able to slowly hone in on first what the product is, what type of food.
Then locating exactly from where it came and then the specific distributor. Again, Natural Selection Foods appears to be that distributor to which the E. coli outbreak is linked. You'll probably be getting, continuing to get more information, Wolf, as it continues to develop. They'll probably hone in a little bit further in terms of geography, as well over the next few hours, I imagine.
BLITZER: I assume, Sanjay, this will now set the stage for a recall since they have a specific manufacturer, if you will, in mind.
GUPTA: It very well might. The FDA, along with the USDA, has recalled foods in the past. Now that there is a specific quantifiable number of probably of Spinach packets out there, they might just go ahead and pull those all off the shelves. We'll have to wait and see. I imagine now with this new information they are going to be making some announcements about this in the very near future.
BLITZER: And we'll stay on top of this story. Sanjay thanks very much.
And to our viewers, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM where new pictures and information are arriving all the time.
Happening now, President Bush draws a line in the sand against rebel Republicans. He's warning that terror suspects won't be questioned unless Congress approves his plan for interrogating detainees.
Hurricane Lane is lashing Mexico's Pacific coast, flooding port cities and causing a landslide. It's roaring toward the tip of Baja, California, in the peninsula on roughly the same path as Hurricane John earlier this month.
And a possible hang-up for the in-the-car deal making in California. Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger signed a bill today banning drivers from using cell phones on the road unless they have a hands free device.
I'm Wolf Blitzer. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Political fall-out here in Washington as President Bush strikes back at rebel Republicans in the war on terror over the Geneva Conventions. What has this GOP feud meant for the former Secretary of State Colin Powell?
Let's bring in CNN's Brian Todd. He has got a closer look at this story, Brian.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, some observers, including one I spoke to, who is close to Colin Powell believe this had been smoldering for a long time. The debate over detainee treatment brought it out into the open. And it's one reason we saw today what one analyst characterized as a tightly coiled angry president.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TODD (voice over): May Washington insiders have no doubt that behind the scenes President Bush and his aides are frustrated with their former secretary of state. And they have no doubt the feeling is mutual.
The president, reacting to Colin Powell's letter to John McCain, which said, "The world is beginning to doubt the moral basis of our fight against terrorism"...
BUSH: If there's any comparison between the compassion and decency of the American people and the terrorist tactics of extremists, it's flawed -- flawed logic.
TODD: Mr. Bush never mentions Powell by name. Our calls and e- mails to Powell's office were not returned. But Powell's alliance with McCain in McCain's debate with the president over how to treat suspected terrorists in U.S. custody has, according to insiders, brought out some festering resentments from Powell from all the internal fights he had during his time as secretary with Vice President Dick Cheney and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld over Iraq.
In the words of one GOP source, ever since they made Powell walk the plank at the U.N. during the prewar weapons debate, the relationship has never been the same. But analysts say Bush's inner circle has its own reasons for being upset with Powell.
TERRY JEFFREY, EDITOR, HUMAN EVENTS: Back if you look at the 2000 campaign I think that Colin Powell and President Bush are very much on the same page when it came to foreign policy. That was a different world, it was before September 11th. I think after September 11th they sort of diverged in their thinking.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TODD: Despite the rift analysts say this could blow over relatively quickly. The Bush administration, they say, will likely not want to engage Powell in the run-up to the midterm elections for fear of alienating African-American voters, Wolf.
BLITZER: Brian Todd reporting for us. Thank you Brian. And while Republicans are engaged in bitter wrangling over how to handle terror suspects, where do the Democrats stand?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And joining us now is the ranking member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Senator Joe Biden of Delaware. Senator thanks very much for coming in.
SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN (D), DELAWARE: Hey Wolf, always a pleasure to be with you.
BLITZER: The president basically makes the point that if he doesn't get his way and you in the Congress don't pass the legislation he's asking you for, the CIA is not going to be able to interrogate these terror detainees, these terror suspects and in the end the American people are going to be in danger.
BIDEN: There is no substantiative evidence for that. Here you have John McCain, prisoner of war. Here you have the senator from South Carolina Lindsay Graham, a prosecutor in the United States military, in the JAG corps. And here you have the chairman of the committee, World War II veteran, former Secretary of the Navy, all saying that's not so. Plus, you have the spokesperson for the United States military prosecutors, the JAG officers, saying that there is no evidence that the methods that they are talking about produce the results they suggest.
BLITZER: Well let me interrupt you on that point. The president keeps saying that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, one of the masterminds of 9/11, he gave up vital information as a result of the very tough methods the CIA used in those secret prisons around the world, that without that information there could have been another 9/11 in the United States.
BIDEN: Well, all I heard paraphrased the comments by the spokesperson for the military lawyers. And I believe I heard them say there is no evidence that those methods have produced the results. Look, there are those extraordinary circumstances where, god forbid we have someone and our CIA guy knows he's got an Atom Bomb somewhere and he uses extraordinary methods.
You don't make International Laws to accommodate that extraordinary circumstance. You have our domestic law exonerate that person for that action, if in fact it's been demonstrated that it is so far above and beyond what the comparative damage would have been to the country that he had to take that action.
BLITZER: The president says that these guys, civilian interrogators, are not using torture but they are very forceful, they're very tough. And he says the point is that the program is not going to go forward if our professionals do not have clarity in law. That's why he's seeking this legislation.
BIDEN: I have worked with these professionals for 33 years, ten years on the intelligence committee. They are just that. They are professionals. They will do everything that needs to be done within the law to protect the people of the United States of America. And in extraordinary circumstances they'll figuratively throw their body in front of the train.
BLITZER: How worried are you, senator, because there is a coalition now of Democrats and several important Republicans, including the ones you mention, led by senator John Warner, the chairman of the Armed Services Committee and John McCain, among others, and Colin Powell, now the former Secretary of State on the outside, but how worried are you, going into this midterm election and looking down the road to 2008, that if the president doesn't get his way, that Democrats are going to potentially pay a political price if there's another terror attack.
BIDEN: I'm not worried about that. What I think the American people are going to look and say look, on one side of the equation you have got Colin Powell, a revered four star general, secretary of state, John Warner, Lindsay Graham, John McCain. On the other side you have the Secretary of Defense Cheney, I mean Rumsfeld, the vice president of the United States. Who are the American people going to believe? I'm not worried.
BLITZER: You are not worried about that.
BIDEN: I am not.
BLITZER: All right, let's move on and talk about another sensitive issue. I want you to listen to what the president said today when asked if this was a moment when he's going to be in New York next week at the United Nations General Assembly, the president of Iran is going be in New York at the United Nations General Assembly, for the two of them to actually sit down and meet and talk. Listen to what the president said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BUSH: No, I'm not going to meet with him. I have made it clear to the Iranian regime that we will sit down with the Iranians once they verifiably suspend their enrichment program and I meant what I said.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: What do you think? Should the president talk to the Iranian leader?
BIDEN: John Kennedy once said America should never negotiate out of fear and should never fear to negotiate. We are the most powerful nation in the world. If the Iranians ask to sit down, how in the lord's name would it be dangerous for the president of the United States? What are we doing? Giving this guy credibility? Does anybody not know who this guy is? I don't think that we'll, I don't think they would want to sit down, either one of them.
But the point is to say to the whole world, look, the greatest ally we have in our fight against the Iranian radicals and the theocracy are the Iranian people. The Iranian people, as you have repeatedly pointed out in your polling data, do not like their government.
And among all the states in the region where we are the most popular, the American people, is in Iran. So what do we do? Our voice remains silent. We don't speak into and give excuses for and give rationale to the Iranian people to politically take on their leadership. I think it's a big mistake not to talk.
BLITZER: He has said, the Iranian president Ahmadinejad, he's challenged the president of the United States to a debate. He says he would welcome a debate, a face to face debate with Mr. Bush.
BIDEN: Well that's theater, that's theater. I agree with President Bush. That is ridiculous to respond to that. But on the other hand, if he's up at the United Nations and a top diplomat came and said Mr. President, the president would like to quietly meet with you. He thinks we may be able to work something out. What would you do? I would say OK, I'll meet with him. I don't have to give up anything. What am I risking by that?
The flip of that is if Ahmadinejad is out there saying I want to debate the president. That's just foolish. It's ridiculous. The president is right just to brush that off.
BLITZER: Joe Biden is the ranking Democrat on the Foreign Relations Committee. Senator, thanks very much.
BIDEN: Thank you, Wolf.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And there's new information emerging right now. We have more breaking news coming in on the issue of spinach and E. coli. We're going to go to Dr. Sanjay Gupta right after a quick break. Also he's battling addiction and facing years in prison. A Republican Congressman is pleading guilty to corruption.
And no skinny models wanted. One city known for its fashion tells models if you can't put on some weight you can't put on the clothes. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
BLITZER: And the information is coming in very quickly on the issue of spinach and E. coli.
Let's bring back our senior medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta. Even in the past few minutes more information coming out now, word of a recall.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SR. MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: You just asked about that, Wolf, and that is right. A voluntary recall, according to the FDA, specifically on Natural Selection food products of which there are many, not including not only fresh bagged spinach but also salad containing spinach. This was an issue that came up in the past. There could be salad that contains spinach leaves. Those are also going to voluntary recalled.
After that, Natural Selection foods saying that they're going to go ahead and recall food, spinach products, that have the label best if used between the dates of August 17 and October 1. If your label says best used between the dates of August 17 and October 1, it's going to be recalled.
They are also saying plastic clamshell containers as well, in addition to the bags. So it's starting to expand, Wolf.
BLITZER: This is a developing story. Important information, Sanjay. Thanks very much.
Our Internet reporter Abbi Tatton is getting more information online -- Abbi.
ABBI TATTON, CNN INTERNET REPORTER: Wolf, we are looking at Natural Selection Foods here, Earthbound is based in California. These are some of the labels that you're going to be looking for. It's the spinach products in the bags. As we heard, August 17 to September 1, those are the best used by. This is the recall that's now going on right now. That just in from the FDA, Wolf.
BLITZER: Abbi, thank you. And we'll stay on top of this story. Stay with CNN for all the latest information, information you need to know.
We'll move on to other news we're following. In Cuba right now, anti-U.S. leaders launch anti-U.S. tirades. Our national correspondent Gary Tuchman is in Havana right now, and he has the latest -- Gary. GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, 118 countries are participating in the summit, but it is Venezuela, Iran and Cuba that are dominating the rhetoric. But so far, Fidel Castro is a no show.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TUCHMAN (voice-over): Heads of state from nonaligned nations pose for their class picture 90 miles from U.S. shores in Havana, Cuba. And the anti-American tone of this gathering can be summed up in this one shot.
On the top right, Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad gets his back rubbed. In the middle of the screen, Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez does a little hugging and back-rubbing of his own. And waiting on the left for a little of the action, the leader of the leader of Zimbabwe, Robert Mugabe.
Three leaders who are preoccupying the U.S. government all together, officially hosted by Fidel Castro. But because he's still too sick to appear in public, his brother welcomed the guests and defended people like Ahmadinejad.
RAUL CASTRO, ACTING CUBAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Let us denounce the hypocrisy of the U.S. government, who while supporting Israel's bid to increase their nuclear store is threatening Iran in an attempt to prevent the peaceful use of nuclear energy.
TUCHMAN: And Ahmadinejad responded in kind.
MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD, IRANIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Cuba's fight for liberation and against imperialism is inspiring to many people. At the resistance of the leadership of five decades has always had the support of the nonaligned movement.
TUCHMAN: Venezuela's Chavez, who has now visited the ill Fidel Castro three times, has been unmatched at this summit in antagonism towards the U.S.
HUGO CHAVEZ, VENEZUELAN PRESIDENT (through translator): American imperialism continues to prepare plans to arm conspiracies against the governments of Cuba and Venezuela, and I have the feeling against others.
TUCHMAN: The secretary-general of the United Nations visited the summit, too. Kofi Annan's prepared speech steered clear of controversy. But as far as we know, he did become the first international diplomat to visit the ailing Castro and amid thundering applause, declared Castro was doing well and had...
KOFI ANNAN, SECRETARY-GENERAL, UNITED NATIONS: ...a firm handshake and an active and ever-curious mind.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCHMAN: The United States was invited to attend this summit as an observer, but Washington, figuring it would be an anti-American affair, declined the invitation and, indeed, Washington was right about it becoming just that way -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Gary, thanks very much. Gary Tuchman in Havana.
An unprecedented new turn in a major investigation of corruption on Capitol Hill. Let's bring in our congressional correspondent Andrea Koppel -- Andrea.
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, after months of denying he did anything wrong to reporters and to members of his own party, Congressman Ney finally came clean.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KOPPEL (voice-over): Outside Ohio, Congressman Bob Ney may have been best known for a move to rename french fries in congressional cafeterias, a slap at France for opposing a U.S. invasion of Iraq. But after pleading guilty to corruption, Ney will now be known as a criminal.
ALICE FISHER, ASST. ATTORNEY GENERAL: Congressman Ney admitted today that he corruptly accepted a stream of benefits valued at tens of thousands of dollars in exchange for agreeing to perform and performing a series of public official acts.
KOPPEL: Ney is the first member of Congress to fall in the wide- ranging influencing pedaling probe surrounding convicted lobbyist Jack Abramoff. In a plea agreement with the Justice Department, Ney admits he accepted gifts from Abramoff and others, among them a number of overseas trips including one worth $160,000 to Scotland in August 2002 to play golf, free meals at a restaurant owned by Abramoff; tens of thousands in gambling money at casinos, as well as substantial campaign contributions.
In exchange, the six-term Ohio Congressman agreed to help Abramoff and his clients win a multimillion dollar contract for wireless communication in the Capitol, lift a gambling ban for a Native American tribe in Texas, and as well as transfer federal property to a religious school run by Abramoff.
In a written statement, Ney said "I am very sorry for the pain I have caused to my family, my constituents in Ohio, and my colleagues." He also said he had become dependent on alcohol and was seeking professional help.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KOPPEL: Ney is facing an expected prison sentence of 27 months, while two sources close to the ongoing corruption probe tell CNN that other members of Congress are being looked at too -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Andrea, thank you very much. Andrea Koppel.
Up ahead, President Bush says interrogation of terror suspects won't go forward unless Congress changes some laws. But what does that mean? Jack Cafferty taking your e-mail.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Let's send it up to New York and Jack Cafferty -- Jack.
CAFFERTY: The question this hour is what does it mean when President Bush says that interrogation of terror suspects won't go forward unless Congress changes the law?
Bob in Phoenix, Arizona, writes -- "Do you think the president might have a different attitude toward the torturing of prisoners if he or the vice president had served on active duty in the armed forces?"
Jim in San Diego -- "It means Bush is the spoiled rich kid I always thought he was. He's either going to get his way or he's going to throw a tantrum. I think Bush and Cheney need a time out in Abu Ghraib."
Judy in Maine writes -- "It means he's willing to abandon the war on terror, something he consistently accuses Democrats of doing, unless he gets permission to torture prisoners. I find it amazing that an alleged Christian can't seem to grasp the concept of sin when he himself is participating in it."
Anna in Tacoma, Washington -- "What he means is he wants all his stooges to have immunity for the war crimes they're committing."
Marilyn in Denton, Texas -- "No one should believe that the CIA will stop interrogations of terror suspects if President Bush doesn't get his immoral changes to the Geneva Convention rules. The CIA is not that childish. Hopefully, our lawmakers are smarter than the president and stand steadfast against him in their beliefs and votes."
And Rob weighs in from Toronto, north of the border -- "You guys are awesome down there. Why not just start calling them the Geneva Suggestions? What's next, God's 10 General Recommendations?"
If you didn't see your e-mail here, you can go to CNN.com/caffertyfile, and read some more of these little gems online.
BLITZER: I suspect a lot of people will. Have a great weekend, Jack. Thanks very much.
And still ahead, culture wars, the fight over fat. The fashion world outraged after one city bans models who are too thin. Jeanne Moos with the story. Stay with us. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Tonight, the skinny from Fashion Week in New York. People are talking less about the clothes and more about a new ban on superthin models. Welcome to the future. Here's CNN's Jeanne Moos.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): If you always thought models are too skinny...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm 123 pounds at 5'9 1/2, and I said it's all right here.
MOOS: Pinch yourself. It's too good to be true.
(on camera): In Spain, they have banned skinny models.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, I love that.
MOOS (voice-over): The news has models everywhere weighing in.
(on camera): Can I weigh you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can weigh me.
MOOS: Can we get you to step on the scale?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, should I take off my boots?
MOOS (voice-over): Take off your boots, take off your top. The thing not to take off is more pounds.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because I should go to Spain, because I think I would make the cut. I think I would be all right.
MOOS (on camera): I don't think you would be all right. I don't think you would be allowed to model in Spain.
(voice-over): Out of concern that seeing skinny model encourages young girls to lose too much weight, the Spanish government-run fashion shows banned models with a body mass index below 18. For instance, someone who is 5'19 must weigh at least 122 pounds, or they are out.
So even though this model at the Lisa Fong (ph) show in New York had a McDonald's egg and bacon sandwich with cheese for breakfast, at 113 pounds, she is underweight.
(on camera): You're too skinny.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I need 10 more pounds. Eat McDonald's three times a day instead of one time.
MOOS (voice-over): The head of the Elite model agency is crying foul.
CATHY GOULD, DIRECTOR, ELITE MODEL MANAGEMENT: It's discrimination against models that are naturally thin, and gazelle- like.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can't ban skinny people just because that's the way they are. It's kind of like telling fat people to lose weight.
MOOS: Still, several of the models we interviewed admitted to having been anorexic or bulimic at some point.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There are girls on the runway right now that should be in a hospital.
MOOS: The ban is the talk of the modeling world. So far, it is confined to Spain.
(on camera): Ribs, hip bones. I don't know...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I eat like you would not believe.
MOOS: After weighing model after model...
(on camera): You're banned in Spain. I'll tell you, you're all in trouble.
(voice-over): One girl finally weighed in above the cutoff, at 133. She turned over the scale to hide the evidence. The scale was a sort of model magnet.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm two pounds under.
MOOS (on camera): You're out.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm out. Oh, no, I'm out.
MOOS: So now what do you think of the ban?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm just going to go get some more cake.
MOOS (voice-over): Did she say cake?
(on camera): Well, look what they are feeding them.
(voice-over): How much granola does it take to make a model gain...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Two pounds.
MOOS: Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Thank you very much, Jeanne, for that.
And thanks to our viewers. I'll be back Sunday for "Late Edition," the last word in Sunday talk. Among my guests, the president's national security adviser, Stephen Hadley.
And this note: Wednesday here on "THE SITUATION ROOM," my one-on- one interview with President Bush.
Until then, thanks for joining us. Let's go to Paula in New York -- Paula.
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