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Showbiz Tonight
Banning Skinny Models; Anna Nicole Mystery; Interview with Actor Ron Livingston
Aired September 18, 2006 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
A.J. HAMMER, CO-HOST: A big-time singing star gets pulled over by police and they find a whole bunch of drugs.
I`m A.J. Hammer in New York.
BROOKE ANDERSON, CO-HOST: And when celebs are busted, why does it always seem they are smiling in their mugshot?
I`m Brooke Anderson in Hollywood.
TV`s most provocative entertainment news show starts right now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HAMMER (voice over): On SHOWBIZ TONIGHT, thin isn`t in. It`s out.
Tonight, the first models ever to be banned from the runway because they are too skinny. Will other famous fashion shows around the world kick them off the catwalk, too? And why it`s even got President Bush`s wife talking about the fat fight.
LAURA BUSH, FIRST LADY: Well, I don`t see our government getting involved in skinny models.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Should it?
HAMMER: SHOWBIZ TONIGHT with the growing big battle over skinny models.
And a star`s body image battle.
Tonight, the rumors about whether Nicole Richie has an eating disorder. Who better to set things straight than her father, the legendary Lionel Richie.
LIONEL RICHIE, MUSICIAN: She is very aware of what`s going on.
HAMMER: Lionel Richie on Nicole and the new album that will keep us listening all night long in the interview you will see only on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HAMMER: Hello. I`m A.J. Hammer in New York.
ANDERSON: Hi there. I`m Brooke Anderson in Hollywood.
Tonight, super-skinny fashion models everywhere may be running out to eat a few cheese burgers and a double order of fries to save their jobs.
HAMMER: That`s right, Brooke, because something truly amazing has happened. A major fashion show went through with its threat today to ban models who are too skinny. It is literally the talk all over the world.
ANDERSON: Yes. As a matter of fact, even the first lady of the United States had something to say about it today as the heavyweights in the fashion world came crashing down on models who need to put on a few lbs.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON (voice over): The talk in the fashion world isn`t about clothes or designers. They`re talking about weightier issues.
In an unprecedented step, one fashion show has actually banned models who are too skinny from the runways. And the international uproar is anything but pretty.
SAM COOKSON, PREMIER MODEL AGENCY: They`re discriminating against people that are thin.
CUCA SOLANA, DIRECTOR, MADRID CATWALK: I certainly hope for the good of all these youngsters, this step that Cibeles has taken will be followed by others.
ANDERSON: SHOWBIZ TONIGHT is taking you around the world to bring you the latest on this controversy and to ask the tough question: Are rail-thin models an endangered species? And what does this mean for young women who sometimes risk their lives to copy the super-skinny look they see in models?
SUSAN SCHULZ, "COSMOGIRL": The fact that models now have to be heavier is pretty revolutionary.
ANDERSON: The story be begins here in the Spanish capital of Madrid, at the nation`s top fashion show. A new rule cooked up by organizers and the Spanish government said that models must be weighed before they are allowed out on the runway. Any model deemed too skinny will get a very unfashionable boot.
DENISE MORENO, MODEL: It wasn`t very, you know, pleasant having us to go one by one to get weighed and stuff. We were pretty nervous.
ANDERSON: How skinny is too skinny? Spanish organizers used the Body Mass Index, or BMI, to make that call.
Let`s go to the SHOWBIZ TONIGHT chalkboard.
BMI is your weight in pounds divided by your height in inches squared, with the total multiplied by 703. Bottom line: it measures your body fat verse your weight and height. A BMI of under 18.5 is generally considered under weight. In Spain, models with a BMI under 18 were shown the door, much to the chagrin of this designer.
ANTONIO PERNAS, SPANISH DESIGNER: I had already done my casting and included models who didn`t make the weight cut or didn`t want to submit to the test, which is pretty tough.
ANDERSON: The fallout was felt all the way in London, which began its Fashion Week days later. Unlike Madrid, skinny models are allowed to run free there. And some designers weren`t too happy with Spain`s rule.
BEN DE LISI, DESIGNER: To sort of categorically say that your body density weight is just shy under what we think is acceptable, I think it is just arbitrary.
ANDERSON: In fact, this issue has raised such a worldwide uproar, even first lady Laura Bush talked about it during an interview on world affairs with the "Today" show`s Meredith Vieira.
MEREDITH VIEIRA, "TODAY": I have to ask you as a mom of two daughters -- I have one daughter -- your reaction to Madrid. Do you think the government should get involved in body image?
BUSH: Well, I don`t see our government getting involved in skinny models.
VIEIRA: Should it?
BUSH: But our government is involved in obesity.
ANDERSON: So, in a time when eating disorders are a big problem among young women in the U.S., the question is, if girls really are taking their cues from the models they admire, and if healthier models will lead to healthier girls?
SCHULZ: There is something of a domino effect.
ANDERSON: Susan Schulz, editor-in-chief of "CosmoGIRL," tells SHOWBIZ TONIGHT she thinks the Madrid rule could have a positive ripple effect among both young girls and then young stars they look up to.
SCHULZ: Celebrities go to fashion shows, they see those beautiful clothes. They want to fit into them. So maybe they lose a little bit of weight in order to fit into some of these clothes, and then, of course, young girls are looking up to celebrities and looking at how they look in pictures. So, you know, it definitely does affect the way that girls see themselves.
ANDERSON: Giants from the modeling industry have been rushing into SHOWBIZ TONIGHT to tell us what they think of Madrid`s rule. Cathy Gould of Elite Model Management tells SHOWBIZ TONIGHT`s A.J. Hammer she is dead set against it.
CATHY GOULD, ELITE MODEL MANAGEMENT: Well, I think it is a bad thing because it`s discrimination against models that are naturally thin and gazelle-like and really don`t have an eating disorder. And what it does is it really jeopardizes their careers if this moves into other cities like Milan and Paris.
ANDERSON: But full-figured Dolce & Gabbana model Crystal Renn, who herself overcame an eating disorder, thinks the answer lies in opening up runways to all shapes and sizes.
CRYSTAL RENN, MODEL: I think it would almost be better if they had all different sized models, as opposed to saying, well, we can`t have thin models in our shows. Because that`s saying that being thin, naturally thin women is not healthy, and that`s the cause of anorexia, which I don`t think is.
ANDERSON: Either way, this model issue has clearly touched a nerve felt around the world. And fortunately, it`s helped make the difficult issue of body image among young women a topic that`s fashionable.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: One group in favor of the Madrid ban of skinny models is the National Eating Disorders Association. It says the rule "a great call to global action."
HAMMER: Well, now let`s talk to a couple of people who have a lot to say about this controversy.
Joining me here in New York, our good friend supermodel Emme. She made a name for herself as one of the most successful full-figured models ever. Now she`s branched off to all sorts of things.
And from Hollywood, advice columnist and author of "Do I Look Fat in This?" Jessica Weiner.
Ladies, good to see you both. Thanks for being here.
JESSICA WEINER, AUTHOR: Thanks, A.J.
EMME, MODEL: Nice to see you.
Hi, Jess.
HAMMER: So, Emme...
WEINER: Hi, Em.
HAMMER: Emme, they finally did it. Spain followed through with their threat, five models banned for being too skinny. A step in the right direction?
EMME: I think it is a step in the right direction. It`s a big, big step. And I think that if other countries want to have a great diversified image of beauty, they need to do so, because you would not have obese women on the runway, nor would you want to have the other extreme, anorexic.
And I`m not saying -- you know, what I am saying is that we are diversified and we need to project that. We have an epidemic in this country of anorexia. I mean, America, can you imagine? Why would we have this problem?
HAMMER: Yes.
EMME: But it`s the singular image of beauty time and time again.
HAMMER: So, Jessica, what do you think? Is Spain taking these steps with their fashion shows really going to be a call for everybody else?
WEINER: You know, I hope it is. I`m cautiously optimistic about this, A.J. And I`ll tell you why.
I think that on one hand, I`m so happy we`re having this conversation, and I think we need to have a larger conversation, not just about skinny models. We have to go to the root of the cause and talk about the designers and the media industry in general and their portrayal of ultra- thin women. But I do think it`s dangerous for us to talk about weighing women and solely weighing women against the BMI index. I think that is actually a little bit of a dangerous topic to get into.
EMME: I agree. I agree, actually.
HAMMER: OK. And the BMI index, just to be clear on that, that is the Body Mass Index, by which the Spain set their standard.
WEINER: Right.
HAMMER: But, you know, this is interesting, because as Jess just pointed out, here we are talking about it.
EMME: Right.
HAMMER: It`s something that certainly has been discussed on lower levels for a long time, but now it is out there. There`s no turning back.
Is it, Emme, basically that the right people have said, you know what, enough already? And the images you guys are putting out there are just not really realistic or representational of what people want to see or what they should be seeing in a responsible way?
EMME: A.J., I think what`s happening is that change is coming. It`s here. It`s right here at the right moment.
And I think it`s really around those conference room tables, as I`ve been saying time and time again, those decision-makers need to say, is this image one that is healthy? Or is this model one that is healthy? No bones protruding, no ribs showing.
Can we find a healthy young lady to wear the clothes walking down the runway, being the images in magazines, being the images in campaigns? So in the end, diversity is skin tone and texture, the hues of color as well.
WEINER: Right.
EMME: Because with the diversified nation that we`re in, we have diversity. And if you see singular images of beauty, time and time again, that`s when girls say, well, what`s wrong with me and why can`t I -- and they do everything they possibly can to change themselves, when all -- all you really need to do is walk the walk and talk the talk, starting from the parents, starting from the advertisers, and taking a little bit more of social responsibility.
HAMMER: Jessica, you dispense this kind of advice all the time in your column. You`re talking to women about body image issues that they`re dealing with. Is there a common thread that you find, the one thing about body image and the concerns women have that is most what is brought to the table?
WEINER: Well, I`m fortunate to reach over one million girls in 10 countries every month. And I can tell you whether girls are wearing berkas or Birkenstocks.
Every girl out there is worried about her weight and her body image. It is epidemic not just in this country, but globally. And I think something like this and this conversation we`re having is important, because girls out there are confused. There is a constant wallpaper around them of these images that are ultra-emaciated, that are completely, "fashionable," and these girls look at themselves in the mirror and think, how am I ever going to get there?
I think to Emme`s point, we have to honor diversity. And I think, in a way, this is a great reality check for the fashion industry, this is a great reality check for media in general. We have a responsibility, those of us who work in the media and those of us who consume the media, to be more responsible in the images we put out there. I don`t think this victimizes thin models by any stretch...
(CROSSTALK)
EMME: No.
HAMMER: No.
EMME: No, it shouldn`t be about that. I agree to that. I agree.
HAMMER: We`re going to have to end it there. But as I continually say, I also believe the fashion designers will have tremendous success if they put some clothes on the people who actually wear them.
EMME: Honey. Honey, baby, you get more.
WEINER: Right.
HAMMER: Emme, thank you for joining us here in New York.
WEINER: And we`re buyers!
EMME: Yes, we are!
HAMMER: Jessica Weiner, thanks for joining us from Hollywood. I appreciate your enthusiasm tonight.
EMME: Thanks.
WEINER: Bye.
ANDERSON: And now we want to hear from you about it. It is our SHOWBIZ TONIGHT "Question of the Day."
Super-skinny models: Should they be banned from fashion shows?
Vote at cnn.com/showbiztonight. Send us an e-mail, showbiztonight@cnn.com.
Now, coming up a bit later, we asked some runway models this same tough question, and we`ll even weigh them to see if they would be banned themselves. It`s very interesting.
And also coming up, a star`s body image battle.
Tonight, the rumors about whether Nicole Richie has an eating disorder.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICHIE: She is definitely conscious of how to handle it. She`s doing it. I mean, she really is doing the work. So...
HAMMER: But do you worry about her?
RICHIE: Always. We`re parents. Are you kidding me?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Who better to set the record straight than her father, the legendary Lionel Richie? Lionel Richie in the interview you`ll see only on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT.
HAMMER: Plus, the mystery surrounding the shocking and tragic death of Anna Nicole Smith`s son takes another twist when a second autopsy has turned up.
We`ve got that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HAMMER: Welcome back to SHOWBIZ TONIGHT, TV`s most provocative entertainment news show.
I`m A.J. Hammer in New York.
It`s time now for a story that made us say, "That`s ridiculous!"
So, we know that Tennessee is nick named the Volunteer State. Well, actually I didn`t know that, but now I do. A Tennessee mayor might have taken the volunteer thing just a bit too far.
He let the crew of a movie called "Thong Girl" shoot in his office. Yes, the mayor says the film company told him the movie was about a superhero, a female superhero and there wouldn`t be anything offensive.
Well, we checked out the "Thong Girl" Web site and it says, "`Thong Girl` keeps everyone safe with an iron fist and a fiery butt." That`s right. Apparently, she can shoot laser beams at the bad guys out of her behind.
A mayor allowing the filming of a girl in a thong, "That`s ridiculous!"
ANDERSON: Yes, it is. I`m sure that mayor will think twice before allowing something like that in the future.
HAMMER: Yikes.
ANDERSON: All right.
Moving on now, just when you thought the shocking sudden death of Anna Nicole Smith`s 20-year-old son Daniel couldn`t get more mysterious, guess what? It did. Daniel died after visiting his mom in the Bahamas just days after she gave birth to a little girl. Now a second autopsy done by a private pathologist hired by Anna Nicole raises new questions.
Investigative journalist Pat Lalama joins us from Hollywood tonight with the stunning new developments.
Now, Pat, Smith`s pathologist did the autopsy, said it was not the -- the death was not suspicious, but he can`t pinpoint exactly how Daniel died. But the Bahamian authorities have said the death is indeed suspicious.
Is there a conflict here?
PAT LALAMA, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST: Not really. I think it depends on the context of the use of the word "suspicious." Perhaps in the Bahamian term -- and I believe this is true from what I`ve read -- they are saying that because Daniel seemed to be in good health and didn`t have a history of drug use or abuse and doesn`t appear to have -- there weren`t any injuries, it doesn`t seem like anyone attacked him -- therefore, it falls under a category of, well, we don`t know the answer so it`s suspicious. Whereas our standards may be suspicious equates or involves something far more clandestine.
And I think at this point, you know -- go ahead.
ANDERSON: Right. One thing they do agree on, Pat, both the Bahamian coroner and the private pathologist, is that this was not a suicidal overdose, correct?
LALAMA: Right. And they are now saying, or at least Cyril Wecht, who is the second pathologist to come in now hired by Anna Nicole, is saying that he does know that in fact Daniel was taking a small dose of antidepressants, allegedly because of a girl he was suffering over. So this just adds some new dimension to it.
Now, now you might ask, all right, antidepressants? Well, can you die from antidepressants? Well, it`s unlikely, but we do know that if you combine antidepressants with, let`s say, alcohol, that can be incredibly dangerous.
So I think one of the other things we need to learn now is what happened on the flight from the United States to the Bahamas. And then we can put all these pieces together and find out the real truth.
ANDERSON: Was there a combination of something going on there?
LALAMA: Right. Right.
ANDERSON: Well, we are so desperate for answers. The Bahamian authorities have said they know the cause of death.
What is the latest on when we`re going to hear officially what happened to this poor boy?
LALAMA: Well, you know, they were going to release their reports, then all of a sudden the Bahamian coroner came forward and scared us all half to death by saying, we now know there was a third person in the room and we know who that third person is, and there`s going to be an inquest. And so all of a sudden everybody thought there was going to be some, you know, criminal investigation.
Well, that`s unclear that that`s the case, but there is going to be an inquiry that starts in October, and at that time we should -- I believe it`s late October -- we should start to get their results.
ANDERSON: Yes. Hopefully we will get the answers and the family will get closure.
LALAMA: Yes.
ANDERSON: Investigative journalist Pat Lalama.
As always, thanks so much.
LALAMA: My pleasure.
HAMMER: Now to that guy who you might know as that guy on "Sex and the City" or that guy in the movie "Office Space." Ron Livingston, of course, played Jack Berger. You`ll remember he broke up with Carrie Bradshaw on a Post-it Note. And nobody`s ever done that since.
Before that, he broke up with his job in "Office Space." Now Livingston has taken a couple of dramatic new turns, including "Standoff," a new show on FOX, and a startling new film about the business of selling children for sex.
Ron Livingston joining us in New York.
A pleasure to welcome you.
RON LIVINGSTON, ACTOR: Hey, thanks. Thanks for having me.
HAMMER: The show -- look at this, man -- you know, behind football last week, it was the number two watched show in all of TV in primetime right behind its lead-in, "House."
That`s got to feel pretty good.
LIVINGSTON: Yes. We had a pretty strong opening. That was -- it was nice to see.
HAMMER: And I loved the show we were talking about just before we went on. You were playing a crisis negotiator working for the FBI...
LIVINGSTON: That`s right.
HAMMER: ... basically resolving these really difficult, tense situations. And I`m watching this thinking, man, if I did that for a living, I could go home and win every argument. You know?
Is there anything that you`re taking from what you`ve learned about playing that kind of a role and applied it to real life?
LIVINGSTON: Yes. You know, when my contract is up for negotiation, maybe the second time around, we`ll see if I`ve picked anything up.
HAMMER: This is a pretty smart guy who has to know logic and know the right thing to say all the time in the most difficult of circumstances.
LIVINGSTON: Yes. It`s actually -- in some of the research I did, talking to some of the negotiators who do this for a living, they say basically you`re dealing with somebody who is having the worst day of their life.
HAMMER: Yes.
LIVINGSTON: And your first job is to kind of be a reporter and find out why they are having a bad day, and what made it happen, and how we can maybe try to fix it, at least enough to put the gun down and come out.
HAMMER: It`s so cool. And great seeing you in this role, but such a far cry -- I mean, we`ve seen you in so many things, but truly a far cry from Berger, who...
LIVINGSTON: Definitely.
HAMMER: ... you`re wildly known as from "Sex and the City" playing Carrie Bradshaw`s boyfriend. Of course that show will live on now in perpetuity on the DVDs and in syndication.
LIVINGSTON: Absolutely, yes.
HAMMER: So, I have to imagine, of all the rolls you`ve done, do you get the best perks from having done that particular gig?
LIVINGSTON: That`s a pretty good one. Yes, that`s a pretty good one.
HAMMER: For a short of time that you may have been on the show.
LIVINGSTON: Yes, that`s -- that one, I think -- yes, flight attendants the world around will recognize me as Jack Berger.
HAMMER: And give you free stuff?
LIVINGSTON: Yes, every once in a while an extra -- an extra bowl of nuts comes my way.
HAMMER: But I imagine that is the one you`re stopped for the most despite everything you`ve done.
LIVINGSTON: Well, you know what? There was -- the oddest one is I was at a Laker game. I was courtside at a Laker game, and Kobe Bryant on an in- bound pass, like, stopped and went, "Berger?" It was really -- it was, like, that was really strange.
HAMMER: From Kobe.
LIVINGSTON: I know. I was, like, "Kobe, man, you watch the show."
HAMMER: And for a completely different turn in the upcoming movie "Holly," about sex trafficking in Cambodia...
LIVINGSTON: Yes, that`s right.
HAMMER: ... an awfully serious subject, you actually went to Cambodia to see what was going on there. Were you just shocked by how out in the open sex trafficking is? It`s not happening in the alleyways. It`s right there.
LIVINGSTON: It`s so -- you know, it`s -- the way that I look at it is it`s kind of like in a global world. In today`s global world, Cambodia kind of is the alleyway. And so the entire country, it`s kind of, the officials, not only do they look the other way, but to a big extent they are a part of it. You know?
HAMMER: That`s just shocking to hear. And I think not enough people know about that.
LIVINGSTON: I think it`s something that, you know, it`s an issue that we can really -- we have an opportunity to do something about, not least of which because it`s -- no matter where you sit in politics, you can pretty much agree that, you know, raping children is not a good thing and needs to be stopped. And actually, this administration has -- has taken some steps towards making some pledges to help. And I hope they keep them.
HAMMER: And hopefully this movie will bring some attention to that as well.
Ron Livingston...
LIVINGSTON: Hopefully.
HAMMER: ... it`s a pleasure to have you here. I appreciate it, man.
LIVINGSTON: Hey, thank you.
HAMMER: And you can check Ron in "Standoff." It`s on Tuesday nights on FOX.
ANDERSON: Coming up, how a dead body interrupted the filming of an episode of "CSI."
That`s next.
HAMMER: And why are these stars smiling? They shouldn`t be. They`ve been arrested. These aren`t publicity photos.
SHOWBIZ TONIGHT investigates why celebs often seem so darned happy in their mugshots.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICHIE: She`s doing it. I mean, she really is doing the work. So...
HAMMER: But do you worry about her?
RICHIE: Always. We`re parents. Are you kidding me?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Also, a star`s body image battle.
Tonight, the rumors about whether Nicole Richie has an eating disorder. Her legendary father, Lionel Richie, sets the record straight in the interview you`ll see only on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: It is time now for tonight`s "Hot Headlines."
Willie Nelson is on the road again after a cop found marijuana and narcotic mushrooms on his tour bus in Louisiana. Willie and some buddies were issued tickets and released.
Taping of "CSI Miami" got a little too realistic down in Miami this weekend. A dead body floated up near where a crew of the CBS crime drama was filming. Police say it doesn`t look suspicious, though.
And those are tonight`s "Hot Headlines."
HAMMER: Alec Baldwin speaks out about his nasty custody battle with Kim Basinger and about Tom Cruise. And his brother Stephen stops by to talk about life as a born again Christian.
ANDERSON: And why are these stars smiling? I mean, these aren`t publicity photos, people.
SHOWBIZ TONIGHT investigates why celebs always seem too darned happy in their arrest mugshots.
Plus we`ve got this...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICHIE: She is definitely conscious of how to handle it. She`s doing it. I mean, she really is doing the work. So...
HAMMER: But do you worry about her?
RICHIE: Always. We`re parents. Are you kidding?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAMMER: A star`s body image battle.
Tonight, the rumors about whether Nicole Richie has an eating disorder. Her legendary father, Lionel Richie, who has a new album out, sets the record straight.
That`s coming up in the interview you`ll see only on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT
We`ll be right back.
HAMMER: Welcome back to SHOWBIZ TONIGHT. It is 30 minutes past the hour. I`m A.J. Hammer in New York.
ANDERSON: And I`m Brooke Anderson in Hollywood. This is TV`s most provocative entertainment news show.
HAMMER: So Brooke, Lionel Richie has a brand new album out. Here`s a guy who has sold over 100 million albums in his career. He is legendary. So many No. 1 songs and awards. He`s pretty known these days by a lot of people as Nicole Richie`s dad.
How does Lionel feel about that, and how does it feel to be the father of somebody who is the subject of so much tabloid fodder? Everybody wanting to know if she has an eating disorder, what`s going on with your daughter?
ANDERSON: Right.
HAMMER: Lionel`s going to set the record straight for us in just a few minutes.
ANDERSON: Someone else who`s also been the target of tabloid speculation and fodder, Tom Cruise - a lot of people have been vocalizing their thoughts on Tom, whether they`re bashing or whether they`re praising him. Well, now actor Alec Baldwin is speaking out about Tom Cruise. His surprising remarks coming up in just a bit.
But first tonight, former "American Idol" contestant Corey Clark has just been arrested. You got to check out his mug shot. He has this big grin on his face - he`s not the only one. TMZ.com has compiled the best - the tackiest celeb mugshots ever.
There`s a guy who`s smiling. Joining us tonight, Harvey Levin, the managing editor of TMZ.com.
Hello, Harvey.
HARVEY LEVIN, TMZ.COM: Hey, A.J.
HAMMER: All right. So I want to throw up this picture - Charles (ph), would you do it? The Corey Clark still of his mug shot here? He`s - he`s - looks like he`s posing for a publicity shot.
Why is he smiling?
LEVIN: Hey, you know, you got a lot to be happy about when you`re arresting for trespassing. You know what I`m talking about.
I mean, he had an underlying kind of charge of domestic violence, where an ex-girlfriend took a restraining order out on it. And the allegation is he violated the restraining order by going on her dad`s property. So that case is pending right now.
So he has ripped a page out of the playbook that celebrity are supposed to smile when they`re in jail and when their booking photo is taken.
HAMMER: Yes, I mean, this is basically following along in the little trend that you guys noticed. You know, when we saw Mel Gibson looking like he had an official photograph taken - right here - when he was arrested for drunk driving. I remember you commenting, Well, I think they must have a - a stylist, a makeup artist on set there at the police department.
What`s going on here?
LEVIN: I - you know, I think all roads here lead to Tom DeLay. Tom DeLay - I - it was just - it was brilliant that this guy is - he`s arrested, his political career may be over, and he has this huge grin. He`s so happy.
HAMMER: There it is.
LEVIN: Yes. And I mean, I think Tom DeLay is basically saying, Image is everything. And no matter how bad it is, you put on a happy face, and you can spin it. Because people are going to see this mug shot long after the criminal case goes away.
HAMMER: Yes, I think that`s exactly the point. These are things that follow people around, for better or for worse.
And we`ve seen some of the ugly ones. Let`s throw up the pictures of Robert Downey Jr. and Matthew McConaughey. These - the - the Robert Downey Jr. was snapped when he was serving time on a drug conviction. And - and Matthew McConaughey snapped after he was arrested for possession of marijuana and drug paraphernalia.
You love these pictures, don`t you, Harvey?
LEVIN: Well, no. I mean, this is all professional for me, A.J.
HAMMER: Oh yeah.
LEVIN: But you want to start with Matthew?
HAMMER: Sure.
LEVIN: What I find fascinating is the hairline. I mean, just take a look at this and - and tell me that this hairline is not different today.
HAMMER: Yes, I - I - I can`t tell you it`s the same thing. But that`s not for me to say.
LEVIN: OK. And then secondly, let`s go to Robert Downey Jr. He`s bloated. I mean, you know, it looks like he kind of won a Scrabble competition after going to Taco Bell and eating something with a whole lot of salt in it. But, you know, when you get arrested and you have a booking photo taken, you don`t have a whole lot of time to prepare.
So he did the best he could with what he had.
HAMMER: Oh, you know what? I think we`re - are we going to throw up that last one? Haley Joel Osment? No, we don`t - we don`t have time for that. We`re going to have to do that in our next segment of celebrity- smiling mugshots, Harvey.
Thank you very much. And I think everybody should smile when they`re having their picture taken, no matter what the case is.
Harvey Levin, TMZ.com, we appreciate it.
LEVIN: Bye, A.J.
ANDERSON: After all the Tom Cruise bashing, someone is actually telling people to give the guy a break. And that someone is actor Alec Baldwin.
In "GQ" Magazine, Baldwin really opens up about his nasty custody battle over his daughter with ex-wife Kim Basinger, and defending Cruise and Scientology.
Quote - "I don`t see people who are disciples of Tom`s faith driving planes into the World Trade Center. Let`s just leave him alone."
And take a listen to how the nonstop war of the words with ex-wife Kim really beat him down: "My ex-wife once said, `He`s Saddam Hussein.` When the paper, the torrent, came toward me and it said all of these things like I wasn`t a good father, I remember lying in bed, thinking, I wanted to die on the spot. I wasn`t going to jump out a window, but I remember I would go to bed and I would say, `I can`t face another day.`"
To read more, check out the October issue of "GQ" magazine.
HAMMER: Well, somebody who certainly knows all too well some of the pain that Alec Baldwin was going through is his brother Stephen Baldwin. Stephen perhaps best known for his role in the hit movie "The Usual Suspects."
But if you asked him now what he - most likely want you to remember him for, it would be his relationship with God, as a born again Christian. His call to God is the focus of his new book, The Usual - "The Unusual Suspect." Everybody`s been doing that.
(LAUGHTER)
HAMMER: Everybody`s been doing that. It`s "The Unusual Suspect: My Calling to the New Hardcore Movement of Faith."
Stephen Baldwin, good to see you here in New York. I`m (INAUDIBLE) about that. Everybody`s...
STEPHEN BALDWIN, ACTOR: Let me tell you, I wanted to get through the promotion of this book without having done that myself once. And I did it last week. So I can relate.
HAMMER: All right. So I`m off the hook on that.
BALDWIN: You`re off the hook.
HAMMER: I just want to touch for a second on - on what we just heard your brother Alec saying regarding Tom Cruise. He basically is saying that he wants people to leave Tom Cruise alone. And I - you know, I definitely understand where he`s coming from.
I read a quote - an article in a magazine that -- I want to read a quote form you - that you said - quote - "On the Hollywood list of people I pray for often, Tom Cruise is probably No. 1."
BALDWIN: Absolutely.
HAMMER: A bold statement. What exactly do you mean?
BALDWIN: Well, you know, listen, I - I hopefully will make that list and compile that list, and - and this is going to sound a little bit funky right here -- but based on just whatever comes to my mind or to my hear about different people. I`ll admit, my - my list of those that I`m praying for in Hollywood is - is not that long.
But Tom Cruise is a guy I knew a long time ago. We worked together on a picture. And I just see throughout his career, he`s a - he`s a different guy. He`s a very different guy. And - and whatever he wants to do with his faith is his business. He`s just somebody that`s on my heart to pray for. And I think we could all use a little prayer. I think that`s a positive thing.
HAMMER: Is there some - is there one thing in particular about his behavior that has really thrown you, where - you know, certainly he - he`s been all over the media over the last couple of years with, as you say, being a changed guy.
But is there something that - that hits you, like, Tom, come on?
BALDWIN: No, I wouldn`t say that.
I think that the quality of the guy that was kind of blue collar and regular Joe and a little bit more loose and relaxed, I think that`s changed.
HAMMER: Yes.
BALDWIN: But that`s not for me to judge. I mean, just the - the - the fact that I pray for the guy is - is pure and simple. It`s just...
HAMMER: It is (ph).
BALDWIN: ...hopefully that God will move in his life in a way that will be very different for him.
HAMMER: Well, talk about a changed guy. Look at you; here you are, having this kind of a conversation with me.
BALDWIN: Sure.
HAMMER: There was a time when your life was not like this. In fact, I used to see you out in the clubs here in New York City.
BALDWIN: I don`t know what you`re talking about.
HAMMER: You were partying at the Playboy Mansion. You were written about in the gossip columns all the time.
BALDWIN: Absolutely.
HAMMER: You were a bad boy in Hollywood.
So when you told people in your life, whether in the Hollywood scene or in your family, that you have found God and this was your calling and - and this was your approach to life now, did they look at you and say, Are you kidding me?
BALDWIN: Well, to begin with, yes. I think that, you know, the, are-you-kidding-me thing was - was the first reaction.
But, you know, for me, my experience has been very personal. It really started with my wife. You know, my - my wife got saved so to speak about six years ago. And one year later, I followed - all of this having been something that was told to us - told to both myself and - and my wife - 13 years ago by a cleaning woman that we had working at our house, if you can believe that. It sounds kind of crazy.
But I wrote "The Unusual Suspect" because I wanted to express the experience I`m having in my faith in a new, kind of funky, cool, radical way. Because the whole born again thing, it really has gotten a bad rap in the last 30 years.
HAMMER: Well, I think it probably scares some people. Just the - just the - just hearing that term.
BALDWIN: And it - well, and it should, simply because there have been people that have been part of that movement in the last 30 years that have been kind of crazy.
And, you know, recently somebody said to me, like, What is this whole born again thing? And I said, you know, Are you ready? And they said, Yes. I said, Simply being born again means just having a spiritual rebirth, you know?
HAMMER: So it wasn`t so much about - because you often hear about people being reborn after they have hit rock bottom, after they have had - whether it was a run-in with drugs, or - or perhaps their life was spiraling out of control.
That was not the case as - as far as I know with you.
BALDWIN: No. People often ask me, What was your road-to-Damascus experience, so to speak?
HAMMER: Yes.
BALDWIN: And there was - there was nothing. For me, there was a slow progression. My wife came to faith; I was able to witness that transformation firsthand. It wasn`t that dorky, cheesy Christian thing that you hear a lot about. It was very relevant, very tangible. And - and my ability firsthand to witness her conversion and see her really become different, and - and - and it was very positive.
And you have to remember, I was with her already for 10 years. So...
HAMMER: Right.
BALDWIN: So I was very close to her; she was my best friend. So to witness all this - and then, a lot of friends and family after my conversion said to me, The way you express yourself about your faith is really so much fun, you ought to consider writing a book.
HAMMER: And there you did.
BALDWIN: So I did.
HAMMER: So when you look back though, do you have a - a - you certainly have a different perspective now on - on the life that you once led that you don`t lead anymore, in terms of that Hollywood bad-boy image we all knew (ph).
Do you look back on some stuff now and say, Yes, I can`t believe I did that? Is there anything in particular that jumps out to you that you - you maybe feel ashamed about, or that you - you`d like to...
(CROSSTALK)
BALDWIN: You know, I`ll - I`ll say this: there are some things that I look back upon that, knowing what I know now, and - and based on what I believe now, or certainly if I could - if I could change things, I would.
But, you know, that was God`s plan. And for me, everything`s happened exactly as it should so I would come to a place of decision at some point that would change my life forever, in a very positive way.
I got to tell you this: the - the - the best reaction I`ve been getting to the book so far, is people are saying to me, Stephen, the book`s a blast. I laughed a lot. And I feel like when I`m reading the book, I`m just sitting in a room having a conversation with you.
HAMMER: Well, that - that - that`s the truth. And no matter what your faith, your belief or what you`re into or not into, it`s a fun read.
BALDWIN: That`s exactly the hope.
HAMMER: Stephen Baldwin, it`s good to see you, man. Thanks for...
(CROSSTALK)
HAMMER: ...here. I appreciate it.
And Stephen`s new book is called "The Unusual Suspect: My Calling to the New Hardcore Movement of Faith." And it`ll be on bookshelves tomorrow.
ANDERSON: A unique exhibit in Los Angeles gets attention from celebrities, including Brad and Angelina, and some major criticism as well. Oh yeah, and it has an elephant in it. What? Well, stick around: we`re going to tell you about it next.
HAMMER: Plus, the one and only Lionel Richie`s going to stop by SHOWBIZ TONIGHT. He`s going to tell us all about his new album, and what`s going on with his daughter Nicole. That is coming up in the interview you`ll see only on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT.
We`ll also have this:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can`t ban skinny people just because that`s the way they are. It`s kind of like telling fat people to lose weight.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Skinny models banned from runways in Spain. So what do the models think about it? They`re hopping on the scale for us, and speaking their minds. That`s ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: Welcome back to SHOWBIZ TONIGHT, TV`s most provocative entertainment news show.
It`s time now for another story that made us say, "That`s Ridiculous!"
That`s right. In California, an exhibit is closing after animal activists freaked out over its subject. You see - take a look at this. The exhibit features a real, live elephant spray painted pink and gold. Cards were handed out that read, "There`s an elephant in the room: 20 billion people live below the poverty line." The exhibit drew celebrities, including Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie, but not much affection from animal activists.
And A.J., (INAUDIBLE) that it did return yesterday; the animal was not painted. The helpless, poor animal did catch a break.
HAMMER: Yes, I mean, it`s a good - a good item to call - put attention on. But - but you don`t spray paint an elephant. And that`s why we say...
ANDERSON: Yes, good point. But you don`t have to spray paint him. Yes.
HAMMER: ... "That`s Ridiculous!"
Well, we all know his songs: "All Night Long"; "Hello"; "Endless Love." You probably own one of his albums, or maybe two. Lionel Richie has sold more than 100 million of them over the years. A superstar in his own right, with a now very famous daughter you may have heard of, named Nicole.
Lionel stopped by our studio today, and he opened up about Nicole, and of course, her weight, which has gotten a lot of attention recently.
And of course we spoke about Lionel`s brand new CD - there it is - called "Coming Home." It`s got that great, old school Lionel Richie sound to it.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LIONEL RICHIE, SINGER: I have been in the business long enough to where I`ve survived the circle. In other words, I`ve been in the business long enough to where the old sound - the sound that I started out at the beginning - is now the new sound. How about that?
HAMMER: How about that? You figured it out.
RICHIE: And - and - and someone said to me awhile back, When are you going to retire? And my answer is, From what? I`m still having fun in that studio. Of course, they`ve taken away the tape recorder so I`m - I`m not where to...
HAMMER: Which button to push.
RICHIE: Which button - button to push.
But - but it really is an exciting business. I get to travel all around the world, and people smile. And it`s hard to wake up in the morning and have people all around in the world say in every language, I love you. That`s a pretty darn good life. I don`t know what else to say about it. But I`m having a great time.
HAMMER: You`re just living life.
RICHIE: Living life. It`s pretty darn good.
HAMMER: With all that you`ve done though - as many years as you`ve been at this - do you still get a little nervous? Do you still feel the pressure?
RICHIE: Always. It - it`s - it`s competitive. It`s always antsy the first three weeks the record`s out. You always want people to know, How do you like my kids? You know, how do you like - how do you like that record? How did you like that?
HAMMER: Exactly.
RICHIE: You know, how do you like that song?
HAMMER: And here you are making videos again. You`re working with your daughter Nicole Richie...
RICHIE: Oh my God.
HAMMER: ...on "I Call it Love."
RICHIE: How hilarious.
HAMMER: And - well, and wild, too, that, you know, all these years later, all these accolades and millions of albums sold, you`re known to a lot of people as Nicole Richie`s dad.
RICHIE: Blood-curdling screams from across the airport, you know? And I see this stampede of little 7-to-15 year-olds rushing my way, only to be called, Oh my God! That is Nicole Richie`s father, or dad, you know?
HAMMER: But you like that.
RICHIE: I love it. Yes, you give me a...
HAMMER: Yes. Of course.
RICHIE: It`s wonderful. And of course, Tell Nicole I said hello.
HAMMER: Right.
And how was it working on the video with her?
RICHIE: You mean, the woman who wanted the larger trailer?
HAMMER: I would assume she would have asked for something like that.
RICHIE: Yes. Yes. (INAUDIBLE)
HAMMER: And got it, right?
RICHIE: She came down to my trailer to say, Dad, my trailer is just not working. And I go, Well, it`s the same trailer I have. I know, but my friends can`t fit in it the trailer.
HAMMER: Your daughter has a posse.
RICHIE: It`s true. You understand me? So.
(CROSSTALK)
RICHIE: You know, I said, This is not "Gone With the Wind."
HAMMER: Right.
RICHIE: This is just a video. And of course, Nic is having the best time in life doing exactly what she`s been doing since she was 3 years old, which is completely playing rich and famous and - and happy and running around. So she`s wonderful. I`m loving it.
HAMMER: Difficult as it is just being a parent, and here you are the parent of Nicole. And the - the - the tabloids have a field day with her. I mean, it - it has - it has to be an impossible thing for you to sit and watch, particularly with her weigh, the pictures just flashed everywhere.
RICHIE: Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right.
HAMMER: And she has said very publicly it`s - that she feels that she`s too thin, but I don`t have an eating disorder.
Is this something you guys talk about?
RICHIE: All the time. But the fact is, is that, I think since we`ve been through the first half of her life with the drug thing, she`s definitely conscious of how to handle it. She`s doing it. I mean, she really is doing the work. So it`s...
HAMMER: But do you worry about her?
RICHIE: Always. Parents, are you kidding me?
HAMMER: So what do you do? Particularly - particularly to the weight thing, what do you do as a dad?
RICHIE: All - all you do is support. In Nicole`s case, the fact that she`s conscious of everything that happens - she`s very smart. She`s very conscious of everything that has happening to her right now.
HAMMER: See, we don`t hear that enough.
RICHIE: Yes.
HAMMER: We don`t hear that side of her enough. And - and ...
RICHIE: She is...
HAMMER: ...it` s refreshing to hear that she has that level of awareness.
RICHIE: No (INAUDIBLE), she`s done the - she`s done the course before. So this - she`s an old pro at this. And what - actually, what she`s done in a great deal of time is she`s actually taught me how to be open, to the point where you can walk in and say, This is what I`m feeling; this is what I think we should do. You even know my own life story.
So with her, she`s very aware of what`s going on. I think right now she`s working very hard to get it straight.
HAMMER: And will she come to you and say, you know, Dad, what do I have to do so they don`t say this about me, or so they don`t say, I - you know, I don`t have an eating disorder, but they keep writing it (INAUDIBLE). Or she doesn`t let it get the best of her?
RICHIE: The press is going to do - this is a new press now. What`s the truth? I don`t know. If you look at it from the tabloids over in - in Britain, they`ll make up half the stuff.
And that`s where we are now in America. So she`ll call me on the phone and (INAUDIBLE), Dad, this is not true. And even I`ll say, That`s not true. And she`ll go - she goes, How do I deal with it? I said, tomorrow, there`ll be another story.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HAMMER: And that was really just the tip of the iceberg. Lionel and I talked a lot about the obsession with celebrity that goes on today, so much different than it used to be when he was up and coming in the business.
Tomorrow, Lionel`s very powerful comments when it comes to his daughter and the relentless attention she gets from the paparazzi.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICHIE: It`s the deal with the devil. This is where we are today. You can make your announcement right now, Leave me alone. I mean, look at Princess Diana. Leave me alone - it only made it - it only made it worse.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HAMMER: Part 2 of my interview with Lionel Richie tomorrow on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT.
The album`s called "Coming Home." And it`s in stores now.
ANDERSON: As SHOWBIZ TONIGHT has been reported, super-skinny models are being banned from the runways in Madrid because officials are worried they are sending the wrong message to young girls.
We just had to wonder: what do the models think about this?
Here`s CNN`s Jeanne Moos for SHOWBIZ TONIGHT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): If you`ve always thought models are too skinny...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m 123 pounds at 5` 9 and a half and I said it`s all right here.
MOOS: ...pinch yourself; it`s too good to be true.
(on camera): In Spain, they have banned skinny models.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, I love that.
MOOS (voice-over): The news has models everywhere weighing in.
(on camera): Can I weigh you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, you can weight me.
MOOS: Can we get you to step on the scale?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yeah, should I take off my boots?
MOOS (voice-over): Take off your boots, take off your top. The thing not to take off is more pounds.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because I think I should go to Spain, because I think I would make the cut. I think I would be all right.
MOOS (on camera): I don`t think you would be all right. I don`t think you`d be allowed to model in Spain.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There you go.
MOOS (voice-over): Out of concern that seeing skinny models encourages young girls to lose too much weight, city-run fashion shows in Madrid ban models with a body mass index below 18.
For instance, someone who`s 5`9" must weigh at least 122 pounds or they`re out.
So even though this model at the Lisa Fann (ph) show in New York had a McDonald`s egg and bacon sandwich with cheese for breakfast...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wow.
MOOS: ... at 113 pounds, she`s underweight.
(on camera): You`re too skinny.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I need 10 more pounds.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s McDonald`s three times a day instead of one time.
MOOS (voice-over): The head of the Elite Model Agency is crying foul.
CATHY GOULD, DIR., ELITE MODEL MGMT: It`s discrimination against models that are naturally thin and gazelle-like.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can`t ban skinny people just because that`s the way they are. It`s kind of like telling fat people to lose weight.
MOOS: Still, several of the models we interviewed admitted to having been anorexic or bulimic at some point.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There are girls on the runway right now that should be in hospitals.
MOOS: The ban is the talk of the modeling world. So far it`s confined to Spain.
(on camera): Ribs, hip bones. I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`ve got to eat like you would not believe.
MOOS (voice-over): After weighing model after model...
(on camera): She`s out.
You`re banned in Spain. I tell you, you`re all in trouble.
(voice-over): ...one girl finally weighed in above the cut-off at 133. She turned over the scale to hide the evidence. The scales is a sort of model magnet.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m two pounds under.
MOOS (on camera): You`re out!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m out. Oh, no,! I`m out.
MOOS: So now what do you think of the ban?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m just going to go get some more cake.
MOOS (voice-over): Did she say cake?
(on camera): Well, look what they`re feeding them ...
(voice-over): How much granola does it take to make a model gain...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Two pounds.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON: That was CNN`s Jeanne Moos for SHOWBIZ TONIGHT.
HAMMER: On Friday, we asked you to vote on our SHOWBIZ TONIGHT "Question of the Day." "Death of a President" movies - that it depicts an imaginary assassination of President Bush. "President Bush Assassination Movie: Should it Be Banned From U.S. Theaters?"
The vote was 34 percent of you saying "yes"; 66 percent of you saying "no."
SHOWBIZ TONIGHT coming right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: We`ve been asking you to vote on tonight`s SHOWBIZ TONIGHT "Question of the Day": "Super-Skinny Models: Should they be banned from fashion shows?" Keep voting at cnn.com/showbiztonight. And write to us at showbiztonight@cnn.com. We`re going to read some of your thoughts tomorrow.
HAMMER: Let`s fire up that "SHOWBIZ Marquee" to see what`s coming up on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT tomorrow.
The lonelygirl who turned out to be an actress: she`s a sensation online, but lonelygirl15 isn`t all she seems. We`re going to tell you the story of the three men behind her video diary. It`s fascinating, and it`s tomorrow.
Also tomorrow, Part 2 of my interview with the one and only Lionel Richie. How does he deal with all the paparazzi attention on him and his daughter Nicole Richie? We`ll get into that tomorrow in the interview you`ll see only on SHOWBIZ TONIGHT.
That is it for SHOWBIZ TONIGHT. Thanks for watching. I`m A.J. Hammer in New York.
ANDERSON: Have a great night, everyone. I`m Brooke Anderson in Hollywood.
Glenn Beck is coming up next, right after the latest headlines from CNN Headline News.
END
