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Nancy Grace
Abducted Baby Found
Aired September 19, 2006 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, Lonedell, Missouri. Baby Abby found alive! Eleven-day-old baby Abigale Lynn Woods has been found alive! Five days ago, a female intruder entered baby Abby`s home, attacked her mom, slashing her throat, leaving the mom for dead. Tonight, baby Abby found alive with the female suspect in a home near the crime scene.
And to Florida -- a parent`s worst nightmare, a 2-year-old boy reportedly snatched from his crib while his mom watched a movie in the very next room. Then the mom commits suicide. Stunning developments tonight. We are live in Florida and the search by land, by water for 2-year-old Trenton Duckett.
But first tonight, Missouri, baby Abby alive, her mom`s alleged female attacker in custody.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They went to this house, they found the baby and the baby is alive and the baby -- she was just brought to an area hospital, where this family has just been reunited with the baby. And they just -- just -- the sheriff just spoke with them, obviously, incredibly elated.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. Thank you for being with us tonight. A miracle -- baby Abby has been found alive! We reported her kidnap, her mom`s near death to you. She is alive.
Tonight, straight out to CNN correspondent Jonathan Freed. Jonathan, welcome. Are police confirming baby Abigale Woods is alive?
JONATHAN FREED, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Nancy. We have not been able to confirm it with either the sheriff`s department or the FBI, but we did speak directly to a family spokesperson, a relative by the name of Gina Petzold (ph). And she has told CNN that an emotional sheriff showed up at the family home and told the family that baby Abby had been found alive, Nancy, within five miles of the family`s home.
The sheriff then took the mother and father to the hospital, where they were reunited with their child. And a short while afterwards, the mother called the family to say that she had Abby and that she was feeding her -- Nancy.
GRACE: With us, CNN correspondent Jonathan Freed there. You`re seeing a live shot, an aerial photo of the home. Elizabeth, is this the home where the baby was found? We believe this is the home where baby Abigale was recovered.
Back to Jonathan Freed, CNN correspondent. What is the baby`s condition? What hospital has her?
FREED: Nancy, this is all breaking right now, and we are trying to nail down those details. What I can tell you is that the family spokesperson has confirmed for us that baby Abby has been found within five miles, within five miles of where she was abducted, and that she is back with her mother and that the mother is holding her and feeding her now.
GRACE: DMG (ph) sources state the baby is at St. John`s Mercy Hospital in Washington, Missouri. The baby is well, as Jonathan tells us. The mom is feeding her right now, something not many of us would not have predicted just 24 hours ago.
Back to Jonathan Freed. Tell me about the suspect. Was it a woman? Were they in a home? What kind of structure was it? Is the woman under police custody?
FREED: Nancy, I wish that I had those details for you. This is a very fluid situation. The understanding of the spokesperson is that the baby was found with a woman who did resemble -- who does resemble the suspect. Beyond that, I can`t confirm anything right now. We are, though, hoping to get some details nailed down with the sheriff`s department and the FBI shortly.
GRACE: Jonathan Freed with us, there on location. Here`s the little girl we`ve been wanting to find, identified by the mark on her forehead. The doctor told us, the doctor that attended her, baby Abby, said this would disappear within a couple of months, up to a year. Liz, do we still have Jonathan with us?
Jonathan, do we know if the suspect is from the area? I mean, the home is within five miles of baby Abby`s home.
FREED: We -- Nancy, I wish I could answer those questions. The only thing that I can confirm right now is that a family spokesperson tells us that a sheriff showed up in an emotional state at their home, happy and telling them that the baby had been found within five miles of the home, that the sheriff took the mother and father to the hospital, and that the baby was reunited with her mother and that she`s being fed.
GRACE: Joining us right now, Aisha Sultan, reporter with "The St. Louis Dispatch." Aisha, thank you for being with us. Just yesterday, we were putting out the alert for help in finding baby Abby. What can you tell us, Aisha?
AISHA SULTAN, "ST. LOUIS POST DISPATCH": Well, apparently, the authorities, FBI and police, focused a lot of attention, stayed (ph) back on the local area of the crime. They were at the house collecting evidence. They dredged local waters, the ponds, and they searched the woods again. They had rescue dogs out there. So apparently, focusing back on that local area paid off.
GRACE: Joining me here in the studio, former FBI and D.C. police Mike Brooks. What`s your take on the situation, Mike?
MIKE BROOKS, FORMER FBI, FORMER D.C. POLICE: I think it`s the best news we could hear, ever, Nancy. And today, earlier, the sheriff and FBI spokesman from St. Louis office said they had over 500 leads. They were working to prioritize and to organize the case with their case management system. And they didn`t even give in like they had any information that any kind of rescue or an arrest was imminent.
GRACE: And what we know at this juncture, baby Abby has already been taken to St. John`s Mercy Hospital, Washington, Missouri. The parents were contacted. They immediately rushed to the hospital. As you know, the mom had been released after her throat slashed by the female assailant. They are there. She is feeding baby Abby right now. The child seems to be in good condition.
Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: James Woods, the father of the child, has taken a polygraph and he`s passed it. So as of this release, he is no longer considered a prime suspect, not that we really had one anyway, but he has taken the polygraph.
The victim, Stephanie, when she was examined at the hospital, the physician there said that the wounds that she had were consistent with what she said happened at the crime scene. She has also agreed to take a polygraph test. The reason that she hasn`t up to this point is because of the wounds that she had, they were unable to effectively use the equipment. So as soon as we can get her back to health, she`s willing to take this and help clear things up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We went round and round last night with certain callers and others suggesting this mom`s wound was self-inflicted. Absolutely not!
Marc Klaas is with us, along with Mike Brooks, Marc president of Beyondmissing.com. It`s very, very rare you`re going to see a perp self- inflict a life-threatening wound, Marc Klaas. This mom was slashed all the way across her throat. She nearly died. She passed out from it.
MARC KLAAS, BEYONDMISSING.COM: Well, I`ll tell you what. I would have given almost anything, including my life, to have the resolution that they`ve had this evening. They`re very, very fortunate people.
But you know what? This was a marvelous investigation from the moment the governor told the National Guard to get out and start doing grid searches. From that point on, they`ve done this thing so well and so professionally, I think that it was almost inevitable, if the child was alive, that she would be brought back, that she would be recovered within five days and within 25 miles of her home. That`s what happens in these cases, for an awful lot of reasons.
GRACE: Let`s go out to the lines. Amy in Nebraska. Hi, Amy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. I love your show.
GRACE: Thank you. What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was just wondering, have they determined if there is any kind of connection between the perpetrator of this heinous crime and the family? Like, does this person know the family in any way or do they know her?
GRACE: Mike Brooks?
BROOKS: Well, we heard today from the sheriff`s and the FBI that they had actually given the polygraph a test to her husband. He passed that. They were planning on giving her a polygraph when she was up to it, and she was willingly, voluntarily going to take it. So you know, it seems if, right now, we don`t have any connection. But we`ll have to wait and see if there`s any friends or associates kind of connection with this woman and the victim herself.
GRACE: Hold on just a moment. Not that there`s a connection, agree with you. Right at the very beginning, the dad takes a polygraph. He passes. The mom`s lying there with her throat slashed. She offers to take a polygraph as soon as she`s able. Right there in my mind, the parents are cooperating. But what Amy in Nebraska brought up is a connection. Come on, Mike, be realistic. It`s only five miles from the home. Don`t tell me this woman, if she`s the correct person, has not been watching this home, saw the homemade poster in the front yard, Welcome home, baby Abby. This woman has some connection to this family, whether they know her or not!
BROOKS: Absolutely. That`s what I`m speaking of, friends or associates, Nancy, because this could be -- have been someone she just happened to run into at the grocery store. They saw that she was pregnant. She would ride -- maybe follow her home, ride by the house, then saw the balloons and the sign out, Welcome home, Abby, that kind of thing. And then that could have triggered her to come by the house, knock on the door.
And you know, we also don`t know if she was acting alone or with someone else. And we heard also from the mother today that she felt as if she was able to actually stab the woman in the leg. So we`ll be all anxious to see if she has any kind of wounds on her leg also.
GRACE: Now, that`s the kind of mother I have! She will stab you in the leg if your child is threatened. We are beside ourselves tonight with the breaking news that baby Abby has been found alive. Eleven-day-old -- there you go, Liz -- Abigale Lynn Woods has been found five miles from her own home.
But you know, straight back out to Pat Brown, criminal profiler. It`s like a needle in a haystack. Did you see that aerial shot? Heavily, heavily wooded. Pat, who is this woman?
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Well, as you say, she`s someone who is nearby, who`s been watching. This woman is a psychopath who wants some more attention in her life, and she found a way to get it. Most of these women do work locally because they don`t -- they don`t have big connections with anything. They`re connected with their little world. And that`s kind of a -- you know, a warning to people out there, watch who`s around you.
I do want to make a comment about this police investigation. I am also with Marc on this. I think it was one of the best police investigations I`ve ever seen. They didn`t rule out anybody. They didn`t rule out the mom or the dad or the stranger. It was a very bizarre crime scene, with a gun and knife and all this going on, so you couldn`t rule out anyone.
But they did everything they should. They even put out the scarf and said, Hey, we don`t know if this is even connected, but if it is, give us the information. They did everything they could, and it`s marvelous. And I love that woman, too. I mean, it was incredible. I mean, she really fought for her baby. And she just -- she`s an amazing woman.
GRACE: She really did. Baby Abby alive tonight.
Let`s unchain the lawyers. Anne Bremner of the Seattle jurisdiction joining us in our Manhattan studios tonight. Michael Cardoza -- you all remember him from the Scott Peterson case. Michael Cardoza, you know, when you`ve got -- of course, the parents have to be the initial suspect when a baby goes missing.
MICHAEL CARDOZA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Certainly.
GRACE: That`s -- that`s standard operating procedure. But when you have...
CARDOZA: Nancy...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Uh-oh! I don`t think Michael can hear me. I`ll throw it to you, Anne Bremner.
ANNE BREMNER, TRIAL ATTORNEY: OK.
GRACE: When the parents immediately offer to take polygraphs and the mom has a throat slashed, that`s not your typical self-inflicted wound. I think police very quickly ruled them out.
BREMNER: Well, and they did. I mean, we think of the Jeffrey McDonald case -- remember the Green Beret case, where he actually stabbed himself with an ice pick and had a pneumothorax? But of course, that wasn`t life-threatening. So in this case, here you have a different situation, and the police are going to look like elsewhere. And innocence is its own defense, as it was for these parents.
GRACE: Anne, right now, we are getting this just in. Take a look at this home. This is the home where baby Abby was held captive. This is the most recent video we`ve got. You`re seeing a shot there in Lonedell, Missouri, out in the heartland, baby Abby taken from her home, the only eyewitness, baby Abby`s mom, who was found nearly dead, her throat slashed. She managed to drag herself to a neighbor`s home far away and report her baby gone.
Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As far as the transportation, how the person got there, or persons, whatever, and how they left, we don`t know that. We have no witnesses that can tell us that. So that`s one of the things that we`re asking, too, is for anybody that was in that area in the morning or whatever, may have seen a car sitting around, just watching, seen somebody in their driveway -- those are all things that we`re interested in to try to establish a method of transportation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The public has been great with this. We`re still getting a lot of calls in the area. I think we`re up to like, 500, leads now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Correct.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you know, we`re trying to address those as best we can. In fact, my mother got a call this afternoon from somebody that had some information. So the word`s getting out, and that`s been working real well for us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And as you can see, it was like looking for a needle in a haystack in this very rural area, Lonedell, Missouri, for baby Abby, just 10 days old. Today is her 11-day-old birthday. She`s in her mom`s arms right now, being fed at St. John`s Mercy Hospital in Washington, Missouri.
Let`s try Cardoza again, Michael Cardoza, defense attorney. The woman is found within the baby. She doesn`t have a snowball`s chance in you know where. I`m just telling you, Mike. You might want to jump on this one, Michael. But Michael, this woman`s going to get -- mount a psych defense. I can smell it a mile away. She`s got to say she`s crazy.
CARDOZA: Yes, but is that going to get her off? No. Nowadays, the psych defense is really difficult to sell to juries. I mean, one thing that she might be able to say -- I mean, we have to ferret (ph) to the truth is -- was she the one that actually took the baby? Remember, the mother`s going to have to ID her and say, Yes, that is the woman that took my baby. If she can`t do that, was this baby passed from one person to another?
GRACE: Oh, please!
CARDOZA: Nancy, you asked. So you know, I know that is a possibility, like it or not. Probably not, but it`s certainly a possibility, so it has to be dealt with.
GRACE: Liz, let`s see a shot of the sketch. Now, all along, the mom said she was not happy with the sketch, it wasn`t exactly what the perpetrator looked like. But come on, 5-6 to 5-8, 200 pounds, facial hair on a woman? She should be pretty identifiable. So get ready for the Cardoza defense. You already see it lining up, I found the baby at the mall.
Melanie Whiteway, Dr. Whiteway, clinical psychologist, give us insight on who would slash a mother`s throat. And PS, there was a 1-year-old baby brother there in the home, too, all right? He was left there, with his mom`s throat slashed. She took the little baby, according to the eyewitness. Who is this woman, Melanie?
MELANIE WHITEWAY, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, she`s evil, I`ll tell you right now, and a psychopath. And I agree with the woman who spoke previously. It`s a very scary situation. In layman`s terms, she`s nuts. So whatever psychiatric defense they`re going to mount, it`s going to have to be some -- a really big one because it`s not practical. It`s not going to be practical. This woman, mentally ill or not, is just evil.
GRACE: Well, I know this much, Mike Brooks. If this is the correct perpetrator, she`s a stalker and a predator. She watched that home. She waited until the husband went to work. She carefully planned it out, drove up, knocked on the door, asked to use the phone, then asked to use the bathroom, and then at the right moment, pounced on this mom and took that baby. She had with her a filet knife and a gun. This was planned out. Crazy like a fox, Brooks!
BROOKS: Absolutely. And who`s to say that someone didn`t drive her there, drop her off and was involved with her? You know, maybe she didn`t act alone. But the whole thing, Nancy -- within five miles, they found that baby. And I tell you, it`s -- they`re -- this investigation is far from over. There`s a lot more work to be done, and they`ll be getting started on it tonight.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They went to this house, they found the baby and the baby is alive and the baby -- she was just brought to an area hospital, where this family has just been reunited with the baby. And they just -- just -- the sheriff just spoke with them, obviously, incredibly elated.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are live, Lonedell, Missouri, with breaking news -- 11-day- old baby Abigale has been found alive. We have just learned more about where the baby was discovered. The home was within five miles of baby Abby`s own home. We now learn that that home was actually abandoned. And when police found the baby, she was in the home, reportedly with the female attacker, the attacker that slashed the throat of baby Abby`s mom, leaving her for dead.
Here in the studio with me, former FBI agent Mike Brooks. How did they do it? It`s like a needle in a haystack!
CARDOZA: Nancy, it`s good, old-fashioned police work. That`s what gets the job done every time. They had set roadblocks up today. And you know, Nancy, during the -- I was listening to the presser today with the Franklin County sheriff and the FBI there, and there was something they weren`t telling us today. You know, what that was, we don`t know. They said they looked at some surveillance tapes from hospitals. They had gotten some leads in from local hospitals, also, you know, so it was -- you know, what exactly was able to break this case, I`ll be anxious to find that out myself.
GRACE: Leads from local hospitals. Michael Cardoza, that tells me maybe the attacker sought treatment, although that`s hard to believe. And Michael, what does it tell you as a trial lawyer that this home was abandoned?
CARDOZA: Well, you`ve got to think that she took refuge there when the bulletins went out, Baby stolen. She couldn`t move along the freeways. She couldn`t leave town. So she moves into a place that`s abandoned, basically to hide from law enforcement. And fortunately, as they`ve all been saying, good police work. Kudos to the police in this case. They`ve done an outstanding job. And kudos to the community that went out there and helped, and which, you know, certainly led to this.
GRACE: And also, these could be tips from the local grocer, where someone bought baby formula or asked questions about baby formula. It could be a local resident that saw a light in an abandoned farmhouse.
Let`s go to the lines. Tina in Kentucky. Hi, Tina.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. I just was wondering why the mother still had to take a polygraph, knowing that they found the child. Do they suspect she had anything to do with this or...
GRACE: Tina, I think she offered to take a polygraph and the dad took a polygraph, before the baby was found. I doubt, at this juncture, she`ll take that polygraph. And the reason she hadn`t already taken it was because she simply was too physically unable, with her throat slashed plus other stab wounds.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They went to this house, they found the baby and the baby is alive and the baby -- she was just brought to an area hospital, where this family has just been reunited with the baby. And they just -- just -- the sheriff just spoke with them, obviously, incredibly elated.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I believe in miracles! Baby Abby has been found alive, today her 11-day-old birthday. But what of the female attacker? As tall as 5-8, 200 pounds.
Straight out to Aisha Sultan, reporter with "The St. Louis Dispatch." You`re very familiar with this area. Tell me about the abandoned house, the location, whatever you know about it. And is this really a woman, or is it a man?
SULTAN: Well, they`re reporting that it`s a woman. And as far as the area goes, there are -- it wouldn`t be surprising that there would be an abandoned building nearby. There`s all types of housing there, some of it spread out. Some of it is not very densely populated. I wouldn`t be surprised if there was a building there that someone who was looking for a place to hide could find.
GRACE: I wonder if, from this place, Aisha, where the perpetrator was keeping the baby -- if from this place, the perp could look at baby Abby`s home.
SULTAN: There`ll be no way to know that unless they -- until they release the details of the exact location, and especially in relation to where the crime occurred.
GRACE: You are seeing video of the actual location, the abandoned farmhouse where baby Abby was recovered. Joining us, Aisha Sultan, reporter with "The St. Louis Dispatch." Where is the perpetrator being held, Aisha?
SULTAN: I -- that`s -- I don`t think that`s known right now.
GRACE: Undisclosed.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Baby Abigale Lynn Woods has been found alive, today her 11-day birthday. We are now confirming that, at 6:00 p.m. Missouri time, cops got baby Abigale. She is now reported in good condition at St. John`s Mercy Hospital in Washington, Missouri. She was handed over in a baby blanket. And as we speak, her mom is still feeding her. This is video of the abandoned farmhouse where Baby Abby was discovered.
What do we know about the attacker, the attacker that left Baby Abby`s mother for dead, her throat slashed, multiple stab wounds? We know this: This is the composite that the victim gave police. This is a sketch by a local sketch artist. We know she`s 5`6" to 5`8", over 200 pounds, dark- skinned, long, black hair. She was wearing shorts and a top at the time and a baseball hat. A black scarf was found on the property. Don`t know if it`s connected.
But bottom line: Baby Abby alive and found with -- reportedly with -- the female perpetrator that apparently stalked the home of Baby Abby, taking the baby after the dad went to work.
Out to the reporter with the "St. Louis Dispatch," Aisha Sultan, Aisha, what do we know about the crime? Maybe that will reveal what we can deduce about the perpetrator.
SULTAN: Well, we know that the perpetrator came to the door, knocked on the door, asked to be let in to make a phone call. Stephanie let her in. And she took advantage of that situation, immediately told her she was going to take her baby, trapped her in the bathroom, stabbed her, also had a gun with her, and took off with the baby.
GRACE: And where was the little boy this whole time? Isn`t he just 1-year-old?
SULTAN: The 1-year-old boy was in the house. And when Stephanie came to from being unconscious in the bathroom, she took Conner with her to a neighbor`s house, about 300 yards away from her house, and asked the neighbor to call 911.
GRACE: So with her throat slashed and multiple stab wounds, the mom makes it 300 yards with the 1-year-old toddler -- I guess he could walk at that time, or if she had to carry him -- all the way to a neighbor? Let`s go out to the lines, Dorothy in Indiana. Hi, Dorothy.
CALLER: Hi, Nancy. I was wondering how they got the lead that the perpetrator was in the abandoned house with the baby.
GRACE: Dorothy, I don`t know that yet. But to Mike Brooks, Mike, this was an abandoned farmhouse. If anyone noticed a light or a movement, we believe that the perpetrator came to Baby Abby`s home in a vehicle. If suddenly there`s a vehicle parked at an abandoned farmhouse, and you see it every day when you drive by it -- as you can see, there is a stretch of road beside this abandoned farmhouse -- you know a baby`s missing. It seems like two plus two equals four. How did they do it, Mike?
BROOKS: Good question. I`ll be anxious to hear that myself. But it could have been from a tip.
They were talking -- to date, they had over 500 leads as of today, Nancy. Or it could have just been, you know, as I said before, good, old- fashioned police work. One of the things that they were probably doing in this area, because there`s not that many homes, is doing a house-to-house canvas. And maybe they were doing a house-to-house canvas, came across this, went back, got a plan together, and went and executed a warrant.
I`ll be anxious to hear what the sheriff and the FBI has to say, but they did one hell of a job.
GRACE: And, of course, Pat Brown, we also know that all the roads, trails, everything, roadblocked within a couple of miles of the home where Baby Abby was taken. That made it very difficult for this female attacker, especially with the good description the mom gave police, to get out of that roadblock. I`m surprised the baby`s even been fed.
BROWN: Well, luckily, probably she thought she was going to get away with this, in spite of everything. You know, the arrogance of a psychopath is amazing. They only see themselves. They don`t see other people. So they`re thinking, "OK, well, they`re out there, but I`ll just hunker down here for a while. I can do that. And then they`ll just forget about it, and I`ll go on my way."
And that`s one advantage we have with psychopaths, is they`re unrealistic and they`re so arrogant that they do stupid things and they forget that everybody else out there may be smarter than them. And so thank God in this case they were.
GRACE: Let`s go back to the lawyers. Now, if this woman had planned to hole herself up, Anne Bremner, for a long time in an abandoned farmhouse, cops go in and find a stash of baby formula, a hot plate, blankies and pillows, it`s over with. This woman will not make an insanity deal. Not going to happen. That would be premeditated.
BREMNER: Well, but, Nancy, I mean, let`s unleash the lawyers here. The thing is, in a case like this, maybe she can go for a plea with respect to being kind of nuts. An 11-day-old baby?
GRACE: Last time I looked at the law books, Anne, kind of nuts is not an alternative under the statute.
BREMNER: No, we were talking about that earlier, when sometimes -- my dad`s a psychiatrist and testifies. And he`ll say that, you know, he`s nuts, or what we heard earlier from our esteemed psychologist.
All kidding aside, this is somebody -- remember that book, "Murder in the Heartland," where the woman went and carved out the baby from the mother`s womb? There`s something wrong there. How could she think she would survive with this 11-day-old baby, right in the neighborhood, right there waiting to be found?
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Right under their noses.
BREMNER: Nancy, doesn`t that tell you there`s something very wrong here with this woman?
GRACE: Yes, well, I didn`t say she scored high on an IQ test...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... or passed a Rorschach test.
BREMNER: She comes in with a mustache, 200 pounds, and takes the baby, says, "Can I use the bathroom?" and will be identified, and stays right in the area. There`s something to be looked at here.
GRACE: Well, Michael Cardoza, just because she doesn`t score high on an IQ test, that`s not really a defense.
CARDOZA: No, it`s not really a defense. I mean, I got to tell you, right from the beginning, if you find out this was the woman that did it, you as a defense attorney better start talking plea bargain in this case and see what the best thing you can do for your client. It`s true. You know that, Nancy.
GRACE: You`re not kidding.
CARDOZA: Now, let`s go back a step, though. You know, this investigation to this point was very successful. But from this point forward, the prosecution has to prove this lady guilty, because I know, in your mind, Nancy, she`s guilty beyond a reasonable doubt now because she was found with the baby.
GRACE: Yes.
CARDOZA: But there may be some other facts that come in that maybe could put some...
GRACE: Such as? Go ahead. Dig deep.
CARDOZA: All right. No, I don`t have to dig very deep. I told you, maybe someone left the baby with her. Maybe she is so mentally diminished that she didn`t know the baby was stolen. "Here, take care of the baby." That`s one thing that could happen. Don`t sell it short, Nancy. You were a district attorney. You know you have to prove a case beyond a reasonable doubt -- wait a minute. Wait a minute.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: OK, so somebody gives you a baby to take care of, so you go to an abandoned farmhouse where there`s no electricity or heat, and you hole up and hope the cops don`t find you?
CARDOZA: Nancy, Nancy, as a prosecutor, you better, better be prepared in that courtroom.
GRACE: I`m ready.
CARDOZA: I`ll tell you one thing. I`ll tell you one thing that they`ve done in this case.
GRACE: The state`s ready on that one.
CARDOZA: Hey, you know, Nance? I`ll tell you one thing in this case that`s interesting. You know the sketch you keep putting up? The mother of Baby Abby said that`s not a good sketch. That`s not really her. That really bodes well for the mom, because a good defense attorney could come in, if the mother said, "That`s a perfect sketch," would compare it.
GRACE: Jonathan Freed, what new do you have for us? Jonathan Freed, CNN correspondent there on the scene.
FREED: Nancy, I can tell you that I had a chance to speak to the sheriff a short while ago. And he was just back from dealing with all this. I can tell you that the FBI is in possession of some of the facts; the sheriff`s department in possession of some of the others.
The child was found within approximately five to seven miles of the family`s home. And we understand that a woman contacted authorities and voluntarily handed over the child and that this person is now in custody. Whether or not this is the person who took the child, whether or not this person resembles the individual who has been in that composite sketch, we don`t yet know at this point.
I can tell you that a lawyer may have been involved, according to the sheriff. But again, he is telling us that the FBI was dealing with part of this. They were dealing with another. This all happened in the last couple of hours, following a news conference, Nancy, that happened at about 4:00 local time here. It all went down within about an half and a half or so of that. And they are promising another news conference to update us within the hour here -- Nancy?
GRACE: And, of course, when that news conference starts, we`ll take you there live. Jonathan Freed, don`t move a hair. Did I just hear there`s a possibility that the woman called a lawyer, she got lawyered up before she handed the baby over?
FREED: If you want to use the word "possibility," I`m willing to go that far with you, Nancy. What the sheriff said is, he has incomplete information at this point. He said that a lawyer or some kind of intermediary may have been involved. What we do know is that a woman contacted authorities and voluntarily handed over the child. That`s as far as we know for sure.
And, of course, those are the questions that we want answered, and we`re hoping to get at those within the hour.
GRACE: Out to Jonathan in Alabama, hi, Jonathan.
CALLER: Hey, Nancy. I was going to ask, what possible charges are going to be filed against the perpetrator?
GRACE: Well, I`ve already made a tiny list: first of all, kidnap of the baby; kidnap of the 1-year-old child, because, under the law, you only have to move an individual a very small distance for a kidnapping charge; attempted murder on the mom; aggravated assault. There`s a host of felony charges awaiting this young woman.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It hurts a lot because I don`t know where my son`s at. I think that`s the worst part what happened, not knowing. I`m 100 percent confident that somebody`s out there, that they know something. They`re just not coming forward with the information that we need.
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GRACE: Now to Florida, the search by land and by water for 2-year-old Trenton Duckett. Out to the reporter with the "Daily Commercial," Marilyn Aciego. What`s the latest? What happened today?
MARILYN ACIEGO, REPORTER, "DAILY COMMERCIAL": Hey, Nancy. How are you doing tonight?
GRACE: Good. OK, I think I don`t have Marilyn. We`ll go right back to her.
Jean Casarez, tell me about the search today.
JEAN CASAREZ, COURT TV: Well, the search today centered around a lake in the Ocala National Forest. And the reason that lake was of interest is because the canine units were right there with their scent, believing something around or in the lake was of significance.
But the lake is so murky, and they had to go very slow, trying to search this lake. Plus, there are alligators, Nancy. So today they took sonar equipment out, and they found 39 points of interest at the bottom of that lake. And that means there are odd-shaped items at the bottom of the lake that don`t appear to be natural to the lake.
They put buoys around all those items. And tomorrow, the divers will try to dive to actually get those items, bring them up. Then they will be forensically tested at the Florida Department of Law Enforcement.
GRACE: Here`s what police had to say.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everything that was not natural to the lake we wound up pulling out of the lake. And we`re getting different things checked. We have not found anything that belongs to Trenton or we have not found Trenton. And as I said, the bag, there`s no indication that there`s a link between the bag and Trenton.
Marion County and Lake County are going to keep searching that lake until the Marion County sheriff says that they`ve searched enough. When his staff advises him that they`ve done everything they can possibly do, that`s when they`re going to quit.
But the Marion County sheriff has told my chief we`re going to stay there until we are satisfied we`ve checked literally every square inch, and they`ve basically calling that the cleanest lake in the Ocala forest, at least.
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GRACE: In addition to Court TV`s Jean Casarez there in Bartow, Florida, we are live with Marilyn Aciego -- we`re going to try her again -- with the "Daily Commercial." Marilyn, I understand the child`s shoe was found, as well as a trash bag, a plastic trash bag?
ACIEGO: Yes, Nancy, the trash bag -- there were some media reports today that the trash bag had been found with possible puncture marks, as in from an alligator, and possibly human blood. But they flew the bag to the FDLE crime lab today, and there were no human blood. There was no way to link that back to Trenton. And they have been unable to link the shoe to Trenton, either.
GRACE: Well, it seems to me it would be a simple matter, Marilyn, for the police to triangulate her cell phone to find out where she was. They can pinpoint it down to the block that day. Have they gotten the cell phones and started the triangulation process?
ACIEGO: It`s very possible that, even if she was on her phone or even if she had her phone with her that day, there is absolutely no cell service in that area, so there would be no towers to pick her up from.
GRACE: No cell service. Did I get that correct?
ACIEGO: No cell service, Nancy.
GRACE: OK.
The other possibility, Mike Brooks, is that she wasn`t in the Ocala National Forest. That way the cell phone triangulation would work. And what would you expect to find in this murky lake water?
BROOKS: That is a good possibility, Nancy. And she might not have gone anywhere near here. In fact, the witness who had actually seen Trenton and Melinda in this area, they were going to go back today and re- interview that witness and try to get a little more additional information.
Now, apparently what got them to this lake -- they were doing a search. The cadaver dogs smell, were interested in one spot along the shore of this pond. That`s what brought the 20 divers there.
Now this sonar that they`re using is a similar technology to what they used during the Laci Peterson case when they were looking for Laci and Baby Conner. They pull a little -- almost like a little fish around behind the boat. It will show anomalies, things just -- I`ve seen what it looks like. It`s hard to describe...
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BROOKS: ... yes, and you`ll see little just like jagged edges. And they`ll go back, put a buoy around them. They`ll go back tomorrow because the visibility is so bad in this pond. They have to go back and take their time. And that`s why they have 20 divers, because it is so dangerous there.
GRACE: Back to Marilyn Aciego with the "Daily Commercial." Marilyn, what was the tip that led them to Lake Falls (ph)?
ACIEGO: A tipster called in and said that he saw Melinda, Trenton and her car out in the Ocala National Forest, and the police are calling this person a credible witness.
GRACE: Now, what makes a credible witness as opposed to a non- credible witness, Marc Klaas? I mean, out of all the tips they`ve gotten, why is this guy credible?
KLAAS: Because he can actually put a place and time where he saw Melinda and the little baby. Most people that are incredible witnesses will say something like, "I was driving north on Highway 95, and I saw somebody going south on 95, and I`m sure it was them, but I don`t know exactly where I was," et cetera.
GRACE: Right. Joining us now, Ocala National Forest ranger, district Ranger Rick Lint. Ranger Lint, thank you for being with us. Tell us about the terrain that they are searching there in Ocala National Forest.
DISTRICT RANGER RICK LINT, OCALA NATIONAL FOREST: The area right there is adjacent to a -- it`s a campground and picnic area, in which the edge of that area joins the falls lake (ph). And then it`s water, and we call it prairie. It`s open grassy area.
When the water`s high, these smaller lakes connect into a larger one. And then all around that is surrounded by upland vegetation, very thick, dense. It`s referred to as the pine scrub just because of the thick vegetation around these lakes and prairies.
GRACE: Is it swampy? Is it everglade?
LINT: No, looking out at it, it`s very grassy, open, prairie- looking...
GRACE: Got you.
LINT: ... with these thousands-of-year-old sinkhole ponds in them.
GRACE: Back to Court TV`s Jean Casarez, joining us from Bartow, Florida. I noticed that there were reports today in local media that a box of trash bags had been found in Melinda Duckett`s home, that only two were missing and the rest were thrown away.
The police will not confirm that, but I did notice, when police stated they found a trash bag at the lake, they said, "Well, this has nothing to do with anything at the apartment. This bag is white," which suggests to me there were trash bags thrown away at her apartment that were black.
CASAREZ: That`s a very good deduction. You know, Nancy, I think they`re testing a lot of items. We know that two search warrants have been executed on the home. They are looking at those things. You know, anything that is of forensic value they are testing it. They are releasing some information, but I don`t think they were releasing everything at this point, Nancy.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s not part of the direction that we`re trying to figure out, as to, like, when to cool this thing off. It`s still very active and ongoing. And as long as we`re getting current tips or current information coming in, we`re going to continue checking it out.
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GRACE: The search by land and by water for 2-year-old Trenton Duckett, a parent`s worst nightmare. He`s tucked away in his crib, reportedly the mom in the next room watching a movie. She goes back in to check. The baby is gone.
Out to the lawyers, Anne Bremner, Michael Cardoza. What about the possibility of prints from underwater, Anne? Is it possible.
BREMNER: Sure, I mean, anything`s possible, Nancy. But, you know, I`ve maintained through a lot of this, I think we have to wait and see about whether or not that the baby`s still alive. Look what happened with Baby Abby.
GRACE: Well, true. Michael Cardoza, forensic evidence, I mean, I think is a very strong indicator -- they`re looking with sonar scanning underwater for the baby -- that police do believe Trenton may no longer be with us.
CARDOZA: You know, I`ve got to tell you, I`ve done this for some 30 years, and I`m not very hopeful in this one. You have Mrs. Duckett, the mother. She passed. You know, my gut says she`s involved. I don`t think we`re going to find him alive.
GRACE: Out to Belinda in Florida. Hi, Belinda.
CALLER: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
CALLER: I just want to go back to Melinda`s death. Why didn`t the grandparents use a little bit more sense about leaving a weapon around so that she could do away with herself?
GRACE: Jean Casarez, we know that the suicide was not with her shotgun. It was with the grandparents` gun. But how could they have predicted that, Jean?
CASAREZ: I don`t think they could have. And, remember, she wanted to go into law enforcement herself, and law enforcement has told us that she had just gotten a shotgun. She hadn`t used it yet, but she had gotten herself a shotgun. So I don`t think the grandparents felt they had to have a concern to have that gun locked up.
GRACE: And, Marilyn Aciego, 15 seconds, what happens tomorrow?
ACIEGO: They`re going to continue searching, and they`re going to try to bring up the things at the buoys from the lake and see if they can turn up anything and try to bring Trenton home.
GRACE: And re-interviews will continue on witnesses that claim they saw the mom without the baby throughout the day.
Let`s stop for just a moment to remember Army Staff Sergeant Omar Flores, 27, Mission, Texas. Second tour of duty. He enlisted straight out of high school. He loved Texas border music, wanted to be an ROTC instructor, and leaves behind two children, 8 and 4. Omar Flores, American hero.
Thank you to our guests, but mostly to you for inviting us into your home. Nancy Grace signing off for tonight. See you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. Good night, friend.
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