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Stolen Baby Found; Divisions at The U.N.; Inside Afghanistan with Hamid Karzai; Bush, Abbas Endorse Palestinian Unity Government; Conversation with the NATO Secretary General
Aired September 20, 2006 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: And you are in the CNN NEWSROOM, where the news unfolds on a Wednesday, September 20th. Good morning, everyone. I'm Tony Harris.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Heidi Collins.
Baby Abby back home with her mom in Missouri this morning. Her accused kidnapper betrayed by the newborn's birthmark.
HARRIS: Chaos in the street of Budapest. Protesters and police mix it up in Hungary. The crowd furious at their lying leader.
COLLINS: And call in the cleanup crew. More space trash floats by the shuttle. It could put Atlantis at risk. You are in the NEWSROOM.
HARRIS: Can you imagine the joyous reunion in Missouri. After days of an agonizing search, a stolen baby is back with her family. The suspected kidnapper, in police custody. The latest now from CNN's Ed Lavandera.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT, (voice over): Twelve-day-old Abigale Woods is back with her mother this morning. Doctors say she's in very good health. The family is thanking everyone for their help and their prayers through this ordeal.
SHEILA WOODS, ABBY'S GRANDMOTHER: Just thanks to everybody for praying for my granddaughter to come home and thank God that she did and she's safe.
RUTH BURLAGE, BABY'S GREAT-GRANDMOTHER: I want to thank everybody that's helped my family and prayed for all of us and all their prayers. It helped. It helped.
LAVANDERA: Shannon Beck, the suspect in the kidnapping, is now in custody. She's expected to be in court later this morning. Police say Beck suffered a full-term miscarriage on the same day as the kidnapping and allegedly took Baby Abby to pass off as her own. The rouse was uncovered by Beck's sister-in-law who noticed a birthmark on the baby's head. It had been covered with makeup. But as soon as that makeup was wiped away, Dorothy Torrez noted the same mark police had highlighted in their pleas for help. SHERIFF GARY TOELKE, FRANKLIN COUNTY, MISSOURI: All the leads that we had were good leads, but it just took one out of the ordinary that helped. Getting the information out, obviously, was extremely important. It worked. And we had a happy outcome because of it.
LAVANDERA: All this played out just a few miles from Baby Abby's home. The same home where her mother's throat was slit just five days earlier, but now a happy homecoming.
BURLAGE: My heart just burst open. I'm just so happy and overwhelmed. It's fantastic.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: Ed Lavandera joins us now live.
And, Ed, what more can you tell us about Shannon Beck? What lies ahead for her? Sounds like a desperate act from a distraught woman at the very least.
LAVANDERA: Well, that's one of the angles that authorities here in Union will continue to look into today as they pursue the charges that they want to file against her. And right now, we believe, authorities are pursuing charges of kidnapping, burglary and also assault as well. So those are the charges that they're building up against her.
They're also just trying to figure out what exactly motivated her to do this. And, as you mentioned, this idea that she was pregnant and miscarried recently, to what extent that drove her to do this is something authorities say they'll continue to look into as well. But in the meantime, she is in custody here in Union and will remain so for the next few days at least.
HARRIS: Do we know, do we have any idea how Shannon Beck happened upon this particular house?
LAVANDERA: Well, it's not exactly clear, but the family of Baby Abby did say that they had a sign in front of the house announcing, you know, "it's a girl." You know, a lot of -- you know, you see that in many places around the country. People announcing the arrival of a newborn there at the house. Whether or not that had anything to do with it at this point is not exactly clear. But they apparently they did have that sign and the grandfather of Baby Abby told us this morning that if he had to do it all over again, that they would, you know, not advertise that they had a newborn baby in the house.
HARRIS: CNN's Ed Lavandera for us. Ed, appreciate it. Thank you.
LAVANDERA: Sure.
COLLINS: Safety concerns for shuttle Atlantis easing for now. Close inspections reveal no damage to the craft from debris seen floating nearby. CNN's Daniel Sieberg live at the Kennedy Space Center now. Good morning, Daniel.
DANIEL SIEBERG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Heidi.
Yes, that's the good news at this point. NASA saying that they apparently have not seen any damage to that protective heat shield that's so crucial for the landing of shuttle Atlantis. Let's give people a quick recap of what started all of these events and some of this mysterious debris that was spotted near the shuttle.
It started yesterday morning, very early, about 2:45 a.m. Eastern, when this first piece of debris was spotted nearby. Tough to get a feel of the size or the distance because of no spatial relations to anything up there in space. That was the first object they noted.
Several hours later, one of the astronauts, Dan Burbank, onboard Atlantis, snapped some photos of what they believe is possibly a plastic bag that was nearby. He got those pictures yesterday around noontime.
Then early this morning, about 7:30 a.m. Eastern Time, Commander Brent Jett was talking to the ground about some new objects that he spotted. He described it as a couple of rings and a piece of foil, some reflective material, that he noticed outside the window and sent that video down.
So NASA's been analyzing this imagery. They've also been trying to determine what they are. They may never know exactly what these objects are.
One of the leading candidates at one point was this plastic piece -- it's called shim. It's a tiling spacer that goes in-between these protective heat shield tiles on the belly of the orbiter. It was spotted shortly after the launch. It actually shouldn't have been there in the first place. But they believe that it may have basically been shaken loose during some of these maneuvering jet firings, these test firings that happened yesterday. This was a standard procedure. It may have been one of the objects that they spotted yesterday, but they may never know conclusively. And that's OK.
What they're concerned about now is whether there is any sort of damage to this heat shield. We've been hearing that apparently there isn't any damage to it. They used this extended robotic arm today, in addition to the robotic arm, to get a really close look with some cameras and sensors to make sure that the nose cap, the wing leading edge was OK. Of course, this was put in place after the Columbia disaster back in 2003. It was some foam that pierced the heat shield at that point. So they're taking every precaution, every step.
And the earliest possibly landing attempt now would be tomorrow morning at 6:21 a.m. Eastern Time here at Kennedy Space Center. The weather forecast looking better. So NASA is optimistic at this point, Heidi, and we should know more afternoon as to whether they'll clear it for landing here.
COLLINS: Yes, they're saying weather was the delay for today. But back to all of this debris. Daniel, put this in perspective for us. I mean, what's going on? We've got a plastic bag. We've got something called a shim. We've got stuff floating out there. I don't want to blow it out of proportion, but is it odd or not?
SIEBERG: You know, it's really not that strange, according to NASA, that these objects do appear here and there. Partly because of the shaking of the shuttle during some of these test firings of the jets. But, you know, debris does tend to come loose and those payload bay doors, which are opened. It has happened in the past these foreign objects do appear. The concern really though is how close they get to the orbiter and whether they pierce this heat shield.
COLLINS: Right.
SIEBERG: So as I say, this mystery may never be solved, but they're going to continue to look into it. And as I say, we'll know more this afternoon.
COLLINS: No more littering.
All right, Daniel Sieberg, thanks so much for that, from the Kennedy Space Center this morning.
SIEBERG: You bet.
COLLINS: Meanwhile, a warm welcome to the International Space Station for the three travelers aboard a Russian rocket. Two of them an astronaut and a cosmonaut who will settle in and live aboard the station. The third, an American space tourist returns to earth with the outgoing Space Station crew and lots of memories, I'm sure. They are scheduled to land next Friday.
HARRIS: United Nations divided interest. The international spotlight is shining at the U.N. again today. Taking the world stage, one of Washington's top allies and a couple of its harshest critics.
Scheduled this hour, the president of Afghanistan, Hamid Karzai, opens this second full day of the U.N General Assembly. Next hour, the world body will hear from Venezuela's president. Hugo Chavez is a fierce critic of the Bush administration.
This afternoon, the podium will be turned over to another critic of the Bush administration. Robert Mugabe is president of the African nation of Zimbabwe. You can hear all of the speakers live uncut on CNN's pipeline. Go to cnn.com/pipeline to check out the speeches.
He came, he saw, he criticized. Iran's president speaking out against the United States, Israel, even the United Nations itself, all while defending his own nuclear program. Here's correspondent Aneesh Raman.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His excellency, Mr. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. ANEESH RAMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT, (voice over): Perhaps no speech at the U.N. was more anticipated than that of Iran's president. And that's exactly how he wanted it. This week, gracing the cover of "Time" magazine, fresh from a meeting of like-minded leaders in Havana, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was the talk of reporters from around the world. Just last year, fresh from his surprise electoral victory, he was relatively unknown. No longer.
PRES. MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD, IRAN, (though translator): Rejection of domination and aggression, defense of the oppressed and longing for peace constitute the legitimate demand of the peoples of the world, particularly the new generations and the spirited youth who aspire to a world free from decadence, aggression and injustice.
RAMAN: But there was more than one Iranian view this day. Outside the U.N. a few hours earlier, a few hundred danced in protest of Ahmadinejad. And speaking, they said, on behalf of those in Iran who cannot, call for Ahmadinejad and the regime he represents to step aside.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The time is up and it is time that Iranians take over the destiny of their own country.
RAMAN: A notion U.S. President Bush was eager to emphasize. In his remarks to the U.N., he spoke not to Iran's government, but directly to its people.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You deserve an opportunity to determine your own future, an economy that rewards your intelligence and your talents and a society that allows you to fulfill your tremendous potential. The greatest obstacle to this future is that your rulers have chosen to deny you liberty and to use your nation's resources to fund terrorism and fuel extremism and pursue nuclear weapons.
RAMAN: Iran's government has, of course, denied they are pursuing a nuclear weapon. But what is undeniable is that economic reform, promised by Iran's president on the campaign trail a year ago, has, for the most part, not been delivered.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: And Aneesh Raman joins us from New York right now.
Aneesh, OK, President Bush has had his say on the nuclear stalemate. Iran's president has had his say on the nuclear stalemate. Where do we go from here?
RAMAN: Well, Tony, no one is expecting anything dramatic to change yesterday because of these speeches. The U.S. is in step with the EU, with a number of European countries. What they are hoping is that if dialogue plays out, there might be a way to end this crisis through diplomacy.
But there is an increasingly vocal sentiment within the U.N. that there should be some consequence. Iran has already defied a U.N. deadline. Nothing has happened. The key countries in the middle, Russia and China, they are not eager to impose sanctions.
And Iran, meantime, their strategy is simply to keep calling for dialogue. They've done it before. They've already defied a deadline. And the more that they can get people talking, the more they hope they can keep sanctions at bay.
Tony.
HARRIS: And, Aneesh, the EU approach, any sense of where those conversations, negotiations, if we can even call them negotiations, where we are in that process?
RAMAN: We're being told it's very delicate at the moment. There's some hope that perhaps Iran can be persuaded to suspend its nuclear program so that larger talks can take place. It's important to keep in mind, within Iran we're getting the sense that the is a division in the government. Ahmadinejad is the president. He's by no means the be all, end all authority. There's a supreme leader. And then each ministry has its own say. And so officials from the west are pinpointing essentially divisions within Iran's government as to whether they should accept the deal and suspend the program or remain defiant. And that's part of what is clouding this whole process.
HARRIS: Aneesh Raman in New York for us. Aneesh, appreciate it. Thank you.
President Bush in "The Situation Room" with Wolf Blitzer. Don't miss this one-on-one conversation with the president. That's tonight at 7:00 Eastern only on CNN.
COLLINS: From the farm, to the fork. Investigators search for the source of E. Coli tainted spinach. We're going to talk with an FDA expert about food safety and where the investigation stands, coming up.
And as he puts it, his government lied morning, evening and night. The prime minister's shocking admission sparks a second night of fury in Hungary.
HARRIS: You're out of order. You're out of everything. The process is out of order. Can we get any order in the court? Well, not apparently in the Saddam Hussein trial. New legal drama. Details here in the NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: We want to take you now to New York and the U.N. General Assembly. You're watching Afghanistan's president, Hamid Karzai, as he speaks to the U.N. General Assembly. I think a lot of us are wonder what the president of Afghanistan will say about what looks to be a resurge in Taliban in his country. We will monitor that speech for you.
We should also add that a week from today, President Bush will host Presidents Pervez Musharraf and Hamid Karzai at the White House. And the White House says that the meeting will give the three leaders a chance to talk about ways of strengthening their relationship.
COLLINS: More cases trickling in now from that E. Coli outbreak linked to fresh spinach. Investigators have searched nine California farms trying to pinpoint the source of the contamination. But so far, no luck. Experts are also concerned the E. Coli strain may be more potent than usual. That's because more than half the people who have gotten sick required hospital treatment. The FDA reports 131 cases of illness in 21 states. Colorado also reporting a confirmed case not yet added to that list. Robert Brackett is director of the FDA's Center for Food Safety and Applied Nutrition. He is joining me now from Washington.
Thank you for being here, sir.
Give us an update. What exactly is happening in the investigation? How close are we to finding the source?
ROBERT BRACKETT, FDA: Well, we'd like to be able to say that we're very close. But, in fact, what we've done now is gone back through our trace-backs to some specific farms. And, of course, this is a very daunting task to do this. To one of -- well, to nine different farms that we're looking at. And at this point we have investigators actually on the farms looking for any possible infractions that might have occurred or any kind of environmental conditions that would have led to contamination by this organism. And, of course, there are many different ways that the organism could get into the product, but we're focusing now on the most likely places so that we can hopefully narrow it to this area.
COLLINS: As we look at the video on the other side of the screen there, we're talking about an awful lot of land. You mentioned nine farms. Is this like a needle in a haystack?
BRACKETT: Oh, it is. It's very much a needle in a haystack. The fortunate thing, compared to past outbreaks with lettuce, is it's a much smaller haystack because not as much of this area is grown in spinach. But the one thing we have to keep in mind is that every one of the companies that produced this, these products, purchased from anywhere up to 50 different farms.
So our investigators have to go down through literally hundreds of lot codes to narrow down, to find out which farms were producing at that time, each of one which may have dozens of different farms. It's a real piece of detective work. And to be able to narrow it down to nine farms, I think we're -- hopefully we'll find something there.
COLLINS: Some discussion about this in our area today on the radio. And someone was suggesting, also a food safety expert, that maybe produce should be going through the same type of reform that the beef industry went through, the outbreaks of E. Coli there. Talking about cleaning produce before shipping it and chemicals and radiation and all of that. Are we talking about a possibility of a major revamping to this process?
BRACKETT: Well, that's a very good question. And, in fact, the industry actually has been doing that over the past few years. Obviously enough has not been done because we're still seeing outbreaks. But there are some fundamental differences between what we saw with beef and poultry with some agents and produce.
For one thing, produce, as you know, is grown out in the environment, so the chance for contamination is always there. But the big thing is that when this particular organism actually contaminates the product, there's not much else you can do besides cooking that's going to get rid of it. And the product is meant to be eaten raw. So whatever has to happen is going to be very difficult. The real key here is going to be preventative controls, keeping that product from becoming contaminated in the first place and we need to know a little bit more about the behavior of this organism and others before we can recommend the sort of things that were done with the beef industry.
COLLINS: And surely there's got to be some discussion about really reinforcing and requiring the voluntary guidelines that are being handled and upheld by the FDA right now, making them much more strict. We're talking about several different things. Farm water must not contain run-off from cattle pastures. Farm workers must use bathrooms and wash their hands. Farm equipment should be kept clean. But, again, these are just voluntary guidelines.
BRACKETT: They are voluntary guidelines, but they're ones that, in general, as our investigators are out there and they have been doing this actually before this outbreak, they're seeing that, in general, these are all being followed. And so this has been the difficulty. When we go back to try to trace back where these organisms are actually contaminating the product, it's not obvious because all of these practices are in general being done. Now that's not to say there's not the individual that, much as an individual in the highway that breaks the speed limit, isn't breaking the rules.
COLLINS: Robert Brackett, we appreciate your expertise today. Thank you.
BRACKETT: My pleasure.
HARRIS: Well, you know, the road map is leading nowhere, but President Bush hopes to get Mideast peace back on course. He's meeting this morning with Palestinian Leader Mahmoud Abbas on the sidelines of the U.N. General Assembly. White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux joins us now from New York.
And, Suzanne, good morning to you.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.
HARRIS: It seems to me the top agenda item is likely to be the discussions of the proposal for a unity government to rule over the Palestinian territories.
MALVEAUX: Well, Tony, you're absolutely right. This is really an important time for both leaders. And they both want something out of this critically important meeting. Mahmoud Abbas, essentially, he wants investments. He wants cash. He has lost quite a bit of money and that, of course, from March when Hamas essentially won the cabinet controlling the government.
The United States, European Union pulled out hundreds of millions of dollars in aid to the Palestinian Authority. Abbas desperately wants that money, wants that investment back. What President Bush wants is to kind of weaken Hamas' influence because the U.S. considers it a terrorist organization.
And so the administration is saying, yes, we'll go ahead and recognize this kind of unity Palestinian government, some sort of arrangement between the Palestinian Authority and Hamas where they will recognize it. But there are certain conditions that they have to meet. First, Hamas has to renounce violence. They have to recognize Israel. And also say that we will acknowledge past agreements from Palestinian leaders.
So President Bush putting all that, of course, on the table. Abbas looking for some sort of concession, some way to get the kind of money and cash that his government and his people need at this time.
And what's interesting, Tony, the reason why all of this is kind of resurfacing, if you will, President Bush saying he's recommitted to the Israeli-Palestinian peace process. And the leaders that he met with, it was before yesterday, but he is asking for their help dealing with Iran and Iraq. What he's hearing back from them is essentially, look, we believe the source of instability in the Middle East is not necessarily the extremists, but the fact that you have this unresolved conflict between the Israelis and the Palestinians and that is something that has to be resolved first. If not first, certainly in parallel track with these other two things that President Bush is pushing.
Tony.
HARRIS: Suzanne, can't wait to see the tape of that conversation. We should be getting it shortly. Suzanne Malveaux for us in New York City. Suzanne, good to see you as always.
MALVEAUX: Good to see you, Tony.
HARRIS: Another reminder. President Bush in "The Situation Room" with Wolf Blitzer. Don't miss this one-on-one conversation with the president. That's tonight at 7:00 Eastern only on CNN.
COLLINS: And we are talking Social Security today. A couple of surprises you may not know about. Might be able to get that money a little bit earlier.
Gerri Willis.
GERRI WILLIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey. Good morning, Heidi. Good to see you.
Yes, we're talking about Social Security and how a critical decision you make could boost the size of your check. That's coming up next in "Top Tips."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Want to get to the big board now. Looking at the numbers today. It looks like we have the Dow up about 50 points or so. And the Nasdaq up 29 as well. We always like to se it when it goes up in both directions on that one.
Also, want to show you a little bit of tape that just came in to us here at CNN. More activity at the -- actually this looks like KTLA, Malibu, California. A situation here with a biker.
HARRIS: Yes, this is a story that is just on our radar. So we're just making you aware of it. You're looking at these pictures now from our affiliate in Los Angeles, KTLA. And volunteers from the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department are actually searching, as Heidi mentioned, for a missing biker in the mountains. The Santa Monica mountains above Malibu.
Wayne Crowley (ph), 47 years old, has been missing since yesterday afternoon. Left his home in Los Angeles for a bike ride. Hasn't been seen since. So rescue team, a mountain team of about six off-duty sheriff's deputies, are now a part of this search. On our radar. Just wanted to put it on yours. We'll bring you updates as we get more information on this story.
COLLINS: Now we want to take you to the U.N. We've been covering the General Assembly, as you know, for the last couple of days. Looking at Afghan President Hamid Karzai, who spoke a little bit earlier today, about 10:00 he was to address the General Assembly. He was quick. And he is now finished.
But we will be talking more about that situation and the interesting new meeting that was announced. It will be happening on September 27th and President Bush will be hosting both Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf and Afghan President Hamid Karzai, talking about the situation between those two countries and a new agreement that's been signed by the Pakistanis with the Taliban and what that could mean for Afghanistan.
Meanwhile, Afghanistan may feel like a world away to some of us, but what happens there can have a major impact here. In an exclusive interview, our Anderson Cooper talked with Afghanistan's president about the war on terror and the future of his troubled country.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Why have the Taliban and their allies been able to have a resurgence come back?
PRES. HAMID KARZAI, AFGHANISTAN: Resurgence?
COOPER: Do you think they've had a resurgence?
KARZAI: No. I don't think they've had a resurgence. There has been increase in terrorist activity in Afghanistan, no doubt. That's not a return of the Taliban or their allies. COOPER: But the government of Pakistan has now signed a cease- fire deal with Taliban militants in north Waziristan. When you first heard that, what did you think?
KARZAI: I was taken aback. Who are these Taliban that a deal has been signed with? Why can't we find them? Who are their leaders?
COOPER: Because they're now saying no cross-border activity, no militant activity, no training, no foreign fighters.
KARZAI: Right.
COOPER: Do you believe them?
KARZAI: Why can't we find them? Where is there organization? Where is there structure? They have people who speak for them. They have spokesmen, but we never see them, we can't find them. A body, an element, that has a political presence, must be known, must be present.
Now the government of Pakistan signed a deal with them in Pakistan. President Musharraf told me that. Within days of signing that document, we saw the increase in terrorist activity in Afghanistan, so we wonder whether the deal is good for us or dangerous for us and Pakistan. And when I see President Musharraf in a few days time, I will discuss this question.
COOPER: Already the trends are not good.
KARZAI: Already, the trend is terrible.
COOPER: Without being able to pursue militants in Pakistan, without being able to deny them a base of operations, can you defeat those Taliban elements that are still out there?
KARZAI: No.
COOPER: The key is Pakistan?
KARZAI: The key is -- the key is destroying the sources of training, equipping, financing, motivating and directing toward us in Afghanistan. And this will dry that source, which we should have done a long time back, which I kept talking to the world community about from the very beginning. We will not see peace in Afghanistan. You will not see an end to the killing of your soldiers in Afghanistan.
COOPER: U.S. officials I've talked to, military officials, intelligence officials, and Afghan officials who say privately -- many won't say publicly -- that they believe the Pakistan government wants a vibrant, alive Taliban as a trump card for what may happen down the road in Afghanistan, that they want a destabilized Afghanistan.
KARZAI: Well, that -- if they want that, then it's a serious mistake. Because instability in Afghanistan will automatically mean instability in Pakistan. And it is neither in their interests nor in our interests nor, indeed, in the interest of the international community, because that's why they're there to defeat terrorism.
COOPER: U.S. military officials, or intelligence officials, have told me Mullah Omar is in Queta (ph) or in the surrounding areas. No doubt about it, guaranteed. And other Taliban leaders are clearly in that area, as well.
KARZAI: Yes, they are there.
COOPER: And Pakistan says they're in Kandahar.
KARZAI: We are very sure about it.
COOPER: No doubt in your mind?
KARZAI: Absolutely no doubt.
COOPER: Mullah Omar is alive and well and living in Pakistan?
KARZAI: No doubt about it. And we have informed the government of Pakistan about their addresses, their places. They say it's old, ancient, that it was true some time back. So it could be true today again.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS: Anderson Cooper is keeping a close eye on the war on terror. You can watch "A.C. 360" weeknights at 10:00 Eastern.
Social Security. It's your money, and to a certain degree, it is your decision. So how long should you wait before you start collecting? There's a lot of money riding on your answer. That's for sure.
CNN personal finance editor Gerri Willis is in New York with us today.
Hi, Gerri.
GERRI WILLIS, CNN PERSONAL FINANCE EDITOR: Hi, there, Heidi. For every year you delay collecting Social Security, the amount you will eventually get will increase. That happens up until you reach what's called full retirement age, usually 67. So when's the best time to start? Well, you got to break it down. The bottom line is there's no one size fits all answer. You have to consider your own personal situation.
The first stop, get a rough estimate of how much money you'll receive in a few different scenarios. You can do this on the Social Security administration's Web site that you're seeing right here. It's socialsecurity.gov. By using the online calculator, you can find out how much bigger your check will be if you start collecting at 67 or 65 rather than 62 -- Heidi.
COLLINS: Got to do the math, though. I mean, there's different amounts coming in, depending upon which age you decide to start collecting. WILLIS: Well, next, think about the guaranteed income. That's the money you'll have coming in as long as you live. Things like pensions. That, plus your Social Security payment, is going to have to be enough for you to live on for the rest of your life. But even if you think you'd be comfortable with that, some experts say you should continue working as long as you can. Don't count too much on savings or investments. They'll be a nice cushion. But if you live a long time, they could run out.
COLLINS: Got to be honest with yourself, too, about your health. I mean, if you're a planner, you really have to use that as a factor as to when you should start collecting.
WILLIS: Well, that's right. Well, this is going to sound morbid, maybe, but if no one in your family has lived past the age of 70, you may want to consider collecting Social Security earlier. On the other hand, if you're in good health and your relatives live to a ripe old age, well, then delaying your benefit for a few years might not be a bad idea. And remember, you'd be locking in that higher payment for life.
COLLINS: And it's not always easy. You should probably consult the experts on this.
WILLIS: That's right. You know, the devil's in the details here. Remember, Social Security is complicated. Everybody's situation is different. The Social Security Administration recommends that people talk to one of its representatives at least a year before they plan to sign up for benefits. They'll take a close look at your particular situation and give you advice based on what they see. You can call them on the telephone, toll-free, 1-800-772-1213, or you can simply go to your local Social Security office -- Heidi.
COLLINS: Gerri Willis, thank you.
WILLIS: Thank you, ma'am.
HARRIS: And still to come, Thailand's military coup. Who's in charge and what's next? The latest from southeast Asia, straight ahead.
As he puts it, his government lied morning, evening and night. The prime minister's shocking admission sparks a second night of fury in Hungary.
And in order the court -- not in the Saddam Hussein trial. New legal drama. Details here in the NEWSROOM.
You're watching CNN, the most trusted name in news.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: Well, a new judge is now hearing arguments in Saddam Hussein's trial. At one point, though, he'd heard quite enough and ordered Hussein out of the courtroom. Get out!
CNN's Arwa Damon joins us live from Baghdad.
Arwa, good to see you. What brought this on?
ARWA DAMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, tony, it actually started by an announcement made by the Iraqi government that came yesterday in which they said that they were going to be replacing the former judge, Abdullah al-Amiri, with his deputy, a new judge.
When the defense and defendants arrived in court this morning, sure enough, they saw the then deputy chief judge, now the chief judge of the Saddam Hussein trial, Mohammed al-Khalefa, presiding over the courtroom. This caused the defense to stand up and read a statement protesting this, saying that the Iraqi government was exerting too much pressure over the courtroom, that this was an unfair court, an illegitimate court. They walked out in protests. This prompted Saddam Hussein to stand up and try to challenge the judge resulting in even more courtroom antics.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MOHAMMAD ORABI MAJEED AL-KHALEFA, JUDGE IN HUSSEIN TRIAL (through translator): Sit down. The court has decided to send the defendant Saddam Hussein, to expel defendant.
SADDAM HUSSEIN (through translator): Your father was an officer in the security. He was the one who had -- I challenge you.
MOHAMMAD ORABI MAJEED AL-KHALEFA (through translator): Take him out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DAMON: Following that outburst, the judge was quick to assert his authority over the court and evicted Saddam Hussein from the courtroom. He then brought in a court-appointed defense team and the trial did proceed with witnesses taking the stand. We ended up hearing from four witnesses today, them giving their testimony.
But this is reminiscent of an incident that happened during the last trial, during the Dujail trial, when government pressure caused the judge then, the original appointed judge, to step down. Then he was replaced by a judge that had a harder stance.
Now in this case, this -- a lot of people are saying that this risks undermining the authority of the court, undermining the court's independence, the fact that it seems as though, in the eyes of some, that the Iraqi government is exerting too much pressure, trying to exert too much influence over the court proceedings.
HARRIS: Arwa, we talk about the violence all the time because it happens seemingly every day. What's the story on the violence in country today?
DAMON: Well, today -- and it kind of becomes this tick tock of different attack that happen throughout the country. This morning at 7:00 we had a mortar attack that wounded four civilians. That happened in northeastern Baghdad. About an hour after that, we had a suicide car bomb that exploded at the checkpoint to an Iraqi police base, this happening in a mixed neighborhood in Al Dura, in the southern portion of the city. Four Iraqi police officers lost their lives and another 11 were wounded, eight of those police officers.
And then this evening, we had another suicide attack in Samarra. This time, though, that was against a tribal leader in that area, and that suicide car bomber ended up killing eight citizens and wounded over 25. And like I just mentioned, this becomes a tick tock of the violence, and there are also more and more bodies being found. Thirty-five bodies were found in a 24-hour time period. And at times, especially when you speak to the Iraqi people and they see all of the violence unraveling, they hear about the dead bodies that are found, sometimes they stumble across them in the streets, you ask them what's going to happen next? What's going to happen in the future? And they just don't know.
As the violence increases, hope in this country is decreasing -- Tony.
HARRIS: Arwa Damon in thank you.
For Pope Benedict XVI, the controversy that just won't die. He spoke again today about his recent remarks on Islam. During his weekly audience at the Vatican, the pope said he has deep respect for Islam, and he hopes his remarks will lead to a dialogue among religions. The pope outraged Muslims last week when he quoted a historical text that linked their religion to violence.
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POPE BENEDICT XVI (through translator): This quote unfortunately was able to perhaps be misunderstood. For the attentive reader of my words, it would be clear that I did not in any way wish to make my own the negative words, which were pronounced by the medieval emperor in this dialogue, and that his contained polemic did not contain my personal convictions.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: And still to come, space trash? A danger to Atlantis. NASA wants to make sure the shuttle can get home safely. We will take a look in the CNN NEWSROOM.
COLLINS: And a happy ending to a bizarre and frightening kidnapping. A Missouri baby is now back with her family. The woman suspected of stealing her is in custody.
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COLLINS: And we do want to make sure to let everybody knows what we're about to see here. The Palestinian Authority president, Mahmoud Abbas, met with President Bush this morning in New York, the Waldorf Astoria to be exact. They're talking about all types of different things. Namely Bush showing his support for the weakened -- I would say possibly weakened positions of Mahmoud Abbas because of the election of Hamas back in March.
HARRIS: And as we talked about with Suzanne Malveaux, the real issues here is what kind of support the president will give to this proposal for a unity government, and we're just seconds away from the tape. Let's listen in now to the president.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I said that you're a man of peace who believes in a two-state solution. And after our conversation today, once again you've confirmed that.
I, too, believe that the best way to bring peace to the Holy Land is for two democratic states living side by side in peace.
I said in my speech yesterday that the Palestinian state must have territorial integrity. I firmly believe that.
I also said in my speech that one of the great objectives of my administration is to achieve this vision.
I fully understand that in order to achieve this vision there must be leaders willing to speak out and act on behalf of people who yearn for peace. And you are such a leader, Mr. President.
I can't thank you enough for the courage you have shown. I assure you that our government wants to work with you in order so that you're capable of delivering the vision that so many Palestinians long for. And that is a society in which they can raise their children in peace and hope. And I know that society is possible and I appreciate your vision along those lines.
So welcome to Washington, D.C. I think this is our fifth visit. Every time I've left our visits inspired by your vision.
MAHMOUD ABBAS, PRESIDENT, PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): Mr. President, thank you very much. I'm honored to meet with you, as you said, for the fifth time during those past years.
First of all, I would like to thank you greatly for the wonderful speech that you have delivered yesterday before the United Nations and talked about the Palestinian issues and your vision of two states and you adopt this vision.
Mr. President, you are the first American president who adopts the vision of two states living side by side.
Now, of course, I have talked with the president about the situation in the Palestinian territories and the difficulties that the Palestinian people are facing, as well as the possible solutions that can get us out of these difficulties.
And I mentioned to the president that more than 70 percent of the Palestinian population, they believe in the two-state solution, a state of Palestine and a state of Israel living in peace and security next to each other.
That means that the Palestinian people desire peace, and there is no power on Earth that can prevent the Palestinian people from moving toward the peaceful solution and living and co-existing in peace.
Of course, we look forward to activate the various plans and the various resolutions and the road map in order to be in a position to reach with our neighbors the desired objectives.
We always -- Mr. President, we look forward to your support and your help and your aid because we are in dire need for your help and support.
Mr. President, we will always be faithful and truthful to peace, and we will not disappoint you.
BUSH: Thank you, sir. Thank you very much.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS: You are watching the very first meeting between these two leaders, this Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas and the United States President George Bush since Hamas took office and was elected through Parliamentary elections back in March in Palestine.
Interesting meeting. All kinds of discussions about how to achieve peace between Abbas' moderate politics and Hamas and the discussions about the national unity government there, which we'll continue to follow.
HARRIS: A call to arms in Afghanistan. Tomorrow NATO leaders are expected to discuss the resurging Taliban and the need for reinforcements. So far only one country has stepped forward in NATO's rare public plea for more troops. NATO Secretary General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer joins me to talk about this from New York.
Good to talk to you, sir. Thanks for your time.
JAAP DE HOOP SCHEFFER, NATO SECRETARY GENERAL: Thank you.
HARRIS: Would you explain to us, in very clear terms if you would please, what it is that NATO forces are facing in Afghanistan right now?
DE HOOP SCHEFFER: Stiff resistance from those people, Taliban and other spoilers who do not want to see Afghanistan further develop into a normal democratic state. It's a spoiler process, and that's what NATO is fighting against. Fighting for the values on which the alliance is founded.
HARRIS: And talk to us about the tactics, if you would, being used. We understand urban ambushes, suicide bombings are all on the plate and all being faced by NATO forces.
DE HOOP SCHEFFER: Absolutely, including a big military operation which has taken place over the past weeks, Operation Medusa, west of the southern city of Kandahar. NATO has prevailed and has had a major success there.
But the resistance is stiff. But I can tell you that all the allies and the partners of NATO are fighting for the good cause and we will just continue to do that so that development and reconstruction in Afghanistan can take place, because that's what it's all about.
HARRIS: Mr. Secretary General, let's see if we can paint a picture here. Are NATO forces facing Taliban-trained fighters in Pakistan, who are walking across the border and launching attacks against NATO forces in Afghanistan?
DE HOOP SCHEFFER: There is definitely a problem concerning that border. I spoke to the Pakistani foreign minister just the other day, who assured me once again that Pakistan is doing everything it can. I do think, nevertheless, that very high level of political attention is necessary to see that we can find a lasting and durable solution for the problems with that border, that porous border, I should say, and the way that border is misused by people who want to spoil the democratic process in Afghanistan.
HARRIS: Do you believe that Pakistan is providing a haven for Taliban insurgents?
DE HOOP SCHEFFER: I think the Pakistani authorities are making an investment in seeing that infiltration from Pakistan into Afghanistan does not take place anymore. You know it is very complicated territory. The Pakistani and I and NATO do agree that it is of the utmost importance that infiltration should be stopped and must be stopped.
HARRIS: Are you happy with the totality of that investment from Pakistan at this point?
DE HOOP SCHEFFER: Well, I think all parties could do more, because it is important. But at the same time, let's not neglect the facts, that if you look at Afghanistan at the moment, if you look at the north, you look at the west, and also the south -- I've been there now twice over the past eight weeks -- a lot of development and reconstruction work is going on.
So it's not only fighting. The NATO mission basically is a reconstruction mission. But we'll fight anybody who will act to frustrate our mission.
HARRIS: Mr. Secretary General, let me turn to Darfur for a moment. You've said you don't see NATO troops on the ground in Darfur. Why not?
DE HOOP SCHEFFER: Well, what is necessary now on Darfur is that the Security Council will allow a U.N. force to go into Darfur. The African Union force assisted by NATO, by the way, by flying in African forces in and out of Darfur. The AMISS (ph), as it's called, is doing very good work. Should be strengthened, that's what the African Union thinks itself. And the U.N. should have the opportunity, that's the leading body, to send a United Nations force in, and I would hope that the NATO allies then would be able to support that U.N. mission wherever that support is asked for or requested.
HARRIS: But the president -- you know President Bush has talked about a strategy that would have NATO in the lead in Darfur. I'm just curious as to why NATO would not like to see itself playing that lead role with boots on the ground.
DE HOOP SCHEFFER: I think the United Nations should be in the lead, and I think everybody agrees with me, and I know that also the opinion of the U.S. administration and of President Bush. But having said that, I think that, if you look at the U.N. force referred to by the president in his speech the other day here in New York, and if that U.N. force would ask NATO to enable that force to be effective and efficient, I think the NATO allies would have a very serious discussion to see that that would take place.
But I think the work is now to the Security Council to convince the Sudanese government, who is rejecting, as you know, a U.N. force, the work is now first of all to the Security Council to set up a U.N. force. And if NATO would be asked to support that U.N. force, I'm quite sure that the NATO allies would do that.
HARRIS: NATO Secretary General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer. Thank you for your time this morning.
DE HOOP SCHEFFER: My pleasure.
COLLINS: Spend a second hour in the NEWSROOM, and don't miss a thing. I'm Heidi Collins.
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