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Lou Dobbs Tonight
U.S. Generals Admit No Troop Withdrawals Like In Face of Increased Violence in Iraq, Afghanistan; Hugo Chavez Addresses U.N.: Bush Is "The Devil"; Is the U.S. Really an Imperial Power?
Aired September 20, 2006 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, thank you.
Tonight, a top U.S. General says Afghanistan faces a moment of truth. We'll have a special report on the diminishing chances of any U.S. troop withdrawals from Afghanistan.
Also, Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez says President Bush is the devil.
We'll have a live report from the United Nations and assess anti-American movements throughout the hemisphere. And will your vote count in November? E-voting machines putting our democracy at risk.
We'll have that special report and a great deal more ahead, here, tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT, news, debate and opinion for Wednesday, September 20. Live in New York, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening, everybody.
The American general in charge of NATO today declared the coalition forces in Afghanistan, have stirred up what he called a hornet's nest. General James Jones said NATO troops have defeated radical Islamist terrorists in the south, but a senior U.S. commander tonight said there are no plans to reduce the number of U.S. troops in Afghanistan soon.
Meanwhile, the United States faces an increasingly dangerous threat in our own hemisphere. Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez today called President Bush the devil in a new escalation of his confrontation with the United States.
Jamie McIntyre tonight reports from the Pentagon on what could be a pivotal moment in the war in Afghanistan. Michael Ware reports from Baghdad tonight, on the rising number of Al Qaeda attacks against our troops. And Richard Roth reports from the United Nations on Hugo Chavez's outburst at the U.N. General Assembly.
We go first to Jamie McIntyre, at the Pentagon -- Jamie.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT, LOU DOBBS TONIGHT: Lou, it was just late last year that Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld talking about cutting U.S. troops strength in Afghanistan, but nobody's talking about that anymore.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE (voice over): A senior U.S. Commander tells CNN there are not plans to reduce the number of U.S. troops in Afghanistan, even as NATO forces take over much of the heavy fighting. In fact, more than half of the 21,000 American troops in Afghanistan will simply be transferred to NATO command, but under an American general.
NATO's top general says the recent allied offensive in southern Afghanistan, dubbed "Operation Medusa" killed some 1,000 fighters, and forced the Taliban into what their own commander has called a tactical retreat. But General James Jones told a Pentagon briefing, he suspects the remaining Taliban will simply disperse, lick their wounds and likely abandon taking on NATO in large groups, where they are clearly outmatched.
GEN. JAMES JONES, U.S. ARMY: We'll see the Taliban revert to its tactics. Unfortunately, those tactics will include horrendous attacks on the civilian population, on children.
MCINTYRE: Jones guesses the hard core Taliban number 3,000 to 4,000 but admits they seem to be able to recruit new fighters as fast as they're killed. And NATO and U.S. commanders admit that Taliban terror tactics, assassinations, suicide attacks, and roadside bombs have fueled a perception that Afghanistan is sliding backward into more violence.
But Jones argues that's in part because NATO forces are going into the areas of the south where the Taliban, and other criminal elements, have been unchallenged up to now.
(On camera): What is your perception of how things are going, at least in the short term here? Are things getting worse in the short term?
JONES: We have disturbed a hornet's nest and the hornets are swarming. This is the test. This is a moment of -- the moment of truth. I'm hopeful that in the near future the south will become as peaceful as the north, and parts of the west are.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: NATO is still short some 2,500 troops including attack helicopters and transport planes. But with the Taliban beaten back in the south for now, the need is not quite as urgent. And some NATO countries have indicated, either publicly, or privately, that they'll cough up the additional forces very soon -- Lou.
DOBBS: Jamie, not to put too fine a point on it, our troops have been in Afghanistan for almost five years, and for this level of violence and contest with U.S. Forces at this stage, this has got to be extremely troubling to the Pentagon and to -- and should be, it seems, to me, to all of us that this could be going on?
MCINTYRE: There are about 21,000 U.S. troops; about 20,000 NATO troops, well some people thought maybe those U.S. troops would come home. What's actually happened is they've simply been moved to other parts of Afghanistan to conduct missions. There the mission has expanded -- and, of course, there's still the U.S. troops, really are the primary ones hunting Taliban, Al Qaeda leaders, high value targets like Osama bin Laden, and with bin Laden still on the loose, those troops are still hard at work at that mission.
DOBBS: Again, almost five years after U.S. troops entered the country. Thank you very much, Jamie McIntyre, from the Pentagon.
Insurgents have killed two more of our troops in Iraq. One soldier was killed in Baghdad by enemy small arms fire. The other was killed by a suicide bomber in an attack on the northern city of Mosul. Two other of our troops have died of non-combat related causes in Iraq. And 47 of our troops have been killed in Iraq so far this month; 2,690 of our troops have been killed since the beginning of the war.
A top U.S. general today acknowledged that Al Qaeda attacks against our troops in Iraq are rising. The general's blunt admission is another indication that the war in Iraq is worsening. And the Iraqi government is failing to take over security responsibilities from our troops. Michael Ware reports now from Baghdad -- Michael.
MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT, LOU DOBBS TONIGHT: Lou, there's been an upsurge in Al Qaeda violence here in Iraq according to U.S. Major General William Caldwell.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAJ. GEN. WILLIAM CALDWELL, MULTI-NATIONAL FORCE- IRAQ: Al Qaeda and Iraq insurgents and death squads have recently increased their attacks with the primary are being focused in the Baghdad area.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WARE: All this before the holy month of Ramadan, expected within days. a period traditionally of increased insurgent activity, known as the Ramadan offensive. All this as the American commander for forces in this region said he expected current troop levels more than 140,000 U.S. servicemen and women to remain in Iraq until at least spring next year -- Lou.
DOBBS: Michael Ware reporting from Baghdad. General Caldwell's comments today, just one of a series of recent bleak assessments of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan from our top generals. Last month, General John Abizaid, commander of the U.S. Central Command said, "Sectarian violence in Iraq is probably as bad as I've seen it."
A week ago Major General Richard Zilmer acknowledged, the top Marine Corps commander, in Al Anbar Province acknowledged, "We are not where we intended to be."
And today, as we reported, General James Jones, NATIO supreme commander said, "We were surprised by the level of violence in Afghanistan."
These comments, coming as the Pentagon rules out any major troop withdrawals from Iraq or Afghanistan in the months ahead.
At the United Nations today, Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez blasted President Bush, calling him, today, "The Devil". Chavez also said President Bush behaves like he owns the world. The U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, John Bolton, says Chavez's outburst demonstrated the Venezuelan leader has a comic strip approach to international affairs. Richard Roth reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His Excellency Mr. Hugo Chavez Fria (ph).
RICHARD ROTH, CNN CORRESPONDENT, LOU DOBBS TONIGHT (voice over): It is one of the most shocking undiplomatic moments in United Nations history. The president of Venezuela telling the U.N. General Assembly that it was not President Bush who spoke from the same podium Tuesday, but Satan, himself.
HUGO CHAVEZ, PRESIDENT OF VENEZUELA (through translator): The devil is right at home. The devil, the devil himself is right in the house. And the devil came here yesterday. Yesterday, the devil came here, right here. Right here. And it smells of sulfur still today.
ROTH: President Hugo Chavez's criticism of the United States reached new levels as he personally attacked the leader of the U.N.'s most powerful country.
CHAVEZ (through translator): The president of the United States, the gentleman to whom I refer to as, the devil, came here talking as if he owned the world. Truly, as the owner of the world. I think we could call a psychiatrist to analyze yesterday's statement made by the president of the United States.
ROTH: President Bush did not mention Venezuela Tuesday, even as he outlined other countries posing a threat to peace and security. Reaction from the Bush administration:
CONDOLEEZZA RICE, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: I'm not going to dignify a comment by the Venezuelan president of the president of United States. It should be spoken of in this way, I think it's not becoming for a head of state.
JOHN BOLTON, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: We're not going to address that sort of comic strip approach to international affairs.
ROTH: The U.S. has linked Venezuela to supporting terrorism movements and using its oil money to foment instability. Chavez drew applause and laughs in the hall, because he serves as a prominent and easy outlet for many U.N. member countries who can't publicly vent against Bush administration policies.
CHAVEZ (through translator): I have the feeling, dear world dictator, that you are going to live the rest of your days as a nightmare, because the rest of us are standing up, all those of us who are rising up against American imperialism, who are shouting for equality, for respect, for the sovereignty of nations. ROTH: Another president, who was not in the hall, prefers a different speaking style.
HAMID KARZAI, PRESIDENT OF AGHANISTAN: Get it together. This place is for that, for unity, not disunity.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROTH: Something still to watch for, will Chavez's speech help his country earn a non-permanent two-year seat on the Security Council? Venezuela locked in a battle with Guatemala, Lou, the elections are in October here.
DOBBS: I'll put my money on the Guatemala. What do you think?
ROTH: Well, the president of Venezuela did say something that I think you agree with, he said the United Nations is worthless and that there were too many long documents here.
DOBBS: I think that it's nice to hear at least a kernel of truth emerge from the Venezuelan's president's lips. We thank you for that, Richard Roth.
President Chavez is challenging U.S. policy across the globe, especially in Latin America. Chavez has proposed an anti-U.S. alliance in the region, and is developing close military ties with Bolivia. A top U.S. general recently said Venezuela may supply weapons to leftist rebels in Latin America. Christine Romans has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT, LOU DOBBS TONIGHT (voice over): The sign of the Cross, from the friend and business partner of terrorist regimes.
Applause, for the man who many say personifies a U.S. foreign policy failure in its own backyard.
LARRY BIRNS, COUN. ON HEMISPHERIC RELATIONS: The U.S. Latin American policy is deplorable and probably Washington has never been at a lower point in recent years with Latin America than it is right now.
ROMANS: Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez rolling back democracy, many say, in his own country. Spreading his own socialist revolution to his neighbors and the administration admits, radicalizing the region.
JOHN BOLTON, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: I think there's a very legitimate concern that Chavez is attempting to influence domestic politics in other Latin American countries.
ROMANS: Like coca Bolivia, whose president, Eva Morales is a new Chavez protege. He calls the U.S. war on drugs an attempt to colonize Latin America. Meanwhile, Mexico, street fires burned last week in Oaxaca, teachers forming their own government and disorder reigns. Streets in the capital, shut down by supporters of the defeated Leftist candidate for president. A social situation so precarious, President Vicente Fox cancelled his state of the union speech.
With poverty topping 40 percent, several thousand Mexican citizens a day illegally cross the border in search of work in the United States. A region suffering, while Chavez rants.
JULIA SWEIG, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: He deflects attention and by saying that the United States is exclusively to blame, he paradoxically and maybe unintentionally takes the focus off of Latin America's own actors on the ground, who are in fact responsible for these problems.
ROMANS: Problems like crime, poverty and corruption.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: Meanwhile, Hugo Chavez sucking the oxygen out of the room, as he puts it, and that's not helpful for any progress in the region, Lou.
DOBBS: I know it isn't, but the fact that the United States is effectively, despite the fact the U.N. ambassador had at least a respectable repost, calling him a comic strip diplomat, if you will -- I guess that's a reasonable, respectable repost to it. The fact is the U.S. policy in this hemisphere is seriously lacking.
ROMANS: There was great agreement on that here today, saying that Hugo Chavez essentially stepping into a breach given to him by the Americans.
DOBBS: A man who has a little sense of proportion. Thanks very much, Christine Romans.
Still ahead here, we'll be going to a Georgia town at the center of our illegal immigration and border security crises. Also will your vote count in November? We'll have a special report on the huge cost of trying to ensure the integrity of our e-voting system.
And as many as 200,000 of our troops battle insurgents and terrorists in Iraq and Afghanistan. Tonight we'll be examining whether this country is now behaving like an empire. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: It could be there is an awakening in this country. Tonight communities all across the nation are stepping in to fill a void created by a federal government that will not enforce existing immigration and border security laws. Those communities are fighting a worsening illegal alien crises. The crises has become a number one midterm election issue in parts of this country.
Tonight Bill Tucker reports from Stillmore, Georgia, a small town that saw half its population literally disappear after a crackdown on illegal immigration. And Bill Snyder is live in Denver, Colorado tonight where an important congressional race could be decided on the issue of illegal immigration and the issue of border security.
We begin with Bill Tucker, in Stillmore, Georgia.
Bill
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT, LOU DOBBS TONIGHT: Lou, no one is certain where most of those people disappeared to, but we do know that Immigration Customs enforcement has more than 120 in its custody.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER (voice over): The Crider Poultry plant in central Georgia lost almost 70 percent of it's workers beginning in July. Immigration and Customs enforcement arrested 120 illegal workers over the Labor Day weekend. Hundreds more fled before they could be arrested. The plant clearly benefited from the cheap labor force. But it took a toll on this town of 700, which saw its population double as the result of an influx of illegal aliens.
MAYOR MARILYN SLATER, STILLMORE, GEORGIA: There was overcrowding in the houses, which caused the sewage system to overflow and it's going to cost about a million dollar to get it fixed. And we don't have that kind of money.
TUCKER: While the community's police force of two part-time officers was severely strained, others exploited the situation.
SLATER: The employers and the landlords. We're all overcrowding. They were the ones making the money, the landlords. The more they could get in a trailer, the more money they made.
TUCKER: This house, for example, once housed as many as 40 illegal workers. David Robinson, who owns this trailer park outside Stillmore, defends himself saying no one forces anyone to live in his properties.
DAVID ROBINSON, LANDLORD: If we've done something wrong, the way I feel, Wal-Mart's done something wrong by feeding them, letting them get groceries. It's a just a service we provide, just like a service Wal-Mart or car dealers, or anybody else giving them transportation and stuff.
TUCKER: As for the employer, Crider, the divide between the boss and his workers couldn't be more stark. Since the arrest by Immigration and Customs enforcement, Crider has raised wages and has been forced to hire locally.
DAVE PURTLE, CRIDER POULTRY: Well, we certainly don't want to be back in this situation again, where we could have the possibility of losing this many employees.
TUCKER: ICE agents have been back at the plant since the arrest, training the company on how to spot fake documents.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: Now, Lou, you might think those higher wages have hurt Crider, but a look at the county tax rolls is very revealing. Crider pays no property taxes on the nine and a half acres that it sits on. That belongs to the county. They only pay taxes on the buildings on the property, and it only began paying taxes to the city last year -- Lou.
DOBBS: Bill, that's a remarkable story there in Stillmore, the fact that that -- did any official take action against that employer?
I mean, that's all very cute that they don't pay taxes, that they can crush, be responsible for crushing a town's infrastructure. What is the penalty for them at this point?
TUCKER: There is no penalty, Lou. The harshest penalty at this point is they've had to replace about 70 percent of the work force. But there have been no fines leveled against the employer. Talking to the police chief today, he told me the previous police chief had had problems. He contacted ISIS, back in the late '90s, what was then INS, said we need your help. And INS then said, Lou, what we hear now, unless they're committing a crime, we're not coming down to pick them up. You're on your own.
DOBBS: Well, the it is one of the reasons we're seeing communities all over the country take steps. The misrepresentation in the national media on this story has been interesting, too. Because you found something quite different than earlier reports had suggested and other news outlets, that the townspeople were up said about ICE raid, in fact, what did you find?
TUCKER: I found a mayor who was extremely upset at the way she was portrayed in one article as being sympathetic to the illegal aliens in her community. It's very different when you sit down and talk with her. She's the one that pressed the plant to pay taxes, because they were getting no revenues. She's the one who's gotten involved -- and felt unfortunate about the way she was portrayed earlier articles.
DOBBS: The trailer park operator that you talked with, is the fellow who flew the American flag upside down in an expression of resentment against the enforcement of immigration laws?
TUCKER: That's the very same guy. And when I talked to him today, he was expressing a lot of regret in having done that. The flag has since been turned upright. But that's the same guy.
DOBBS: He ought to express some regret, he ought to express some shame and when he compares exploitation to service, I think he also ought to issue an apology. Just because we're in America I can say things like that.
Bill Tucker, that town stands as a metaphor for what is happening in this country. We thank you very much for the report from Stillmore, Georgia. Tonight a hotly contested congressional race in Colorado is likely to be decided on the issue of border security and illegal immigration.
Republican and Democratic candidates are trying to run away from their national party positions. They're fighting hard to convince voters they have the toughest position on the issue of border security and against illegal immigration. Bill Schneider went out to Denver and tonight has the report for us.
Bill, first, what makes border security such a hot issue in this race, Colorado not being exactly a border state?
BILL SCHNEIDER, SENOR POLITICAL ANALYST: No, it's very far from the border, thought they do have a lot of immigrants, legal and illegal immigrants. There was a ballot measure that was proposed to cut off a lot of government services for illegal aliens. That measure was thrown off the ballot, it was disqualified by the state supreme court. That got people very angry.
So, the democratic controlled legislature met and they passed a number of laws, some of the tougher laws against the illegal immigration in the country. They made it tougher for employers to hire illegal aliens. They limited some benefits for people who are here illegally.
But that didn't satisfy people who were angry about it, who said, look, we need the federal government to do something. And the Republican president and the Republican Congress aren't acting. Therefore, the issue has become front and center in the race -- in a wide open race in Colorado's Seventh Congressional District.
DOBBS: All right, the Republican is running against the president's position of so-called -- in my opinion, a laughable position -- which is really simply amnesty, what he wants and loves to call comprehensive immigration reform. How successful is that approach?
SCHNEIDER: We don't know. It's neck and neck right now because the Democrat is trying to essentially minimize the differences on this issue with the Republican. The Democrat told me, and I interviewed him yesterday, his program is to secure the border, to bust organized crime, to make employers abide by the law. He wants to get tough and talks about border security. He also favors a path to citizenship. That's one of the ways he differs, as well as a guest worker program.
DOBBS: Ah!
(LAUGHTER)
SCHNEIDER: So there are differences here, but the Democrat insisted these differences are very small, and he didn't want to talk much about the issue. The Republican wants to make it front and center issue in this campaign, even though he disagrees with his own president and the Congress.
DOBBS: Well, with the Senate, you mean
SCHNEIDER: The Senate.
DOBBS: The House has shown intelligence and fortitude, in dealing with the issue of border security. It is interesting. You've got a candidate there running from his president on comprehensive immigration reform, as the president, like I said likes to call it.
And you've got a Democrat trying to run from his party which is in favor of comprehensive immigration reform and amnesty and a national political party -- and most of the members, nearly all of the members of the U.S. Senate who passed that legislation. It sounds like politics are getting a little local there.
SCHNEIDER: Politics are local here. There's even a difference over how important the issue is. The Democrat does favor comprehensive reform. But his position generally is, it's not a big issue here. He doesn't want to talk about it.
When I interviewed the Democrat, he said to me, that most recently as Monday night, when I went to 40 houses, immigration did not come up once. The Republican said that the voters are saying to me when I campaign, we're not going to do any more bargains on amnesty until we know for sure that the borders are secure.
There was a poll taken, statewide, by "The Rocky Mountain News" and CBS Channel 4, and the headline of this poll, which was recently published was, immigration, top issue for most. So it is a very hot issue, statewide and I believe also in the Seventh Congressional District.
DOBBS: I think it's going to be fascinating. We're finding that, as you know, across the country. Illegal immigration, there's just no stomach for tolerating this any longer. There's no stomach for politicians who will permit it in nearly every part of the country.
Let me ask you this, we know the national Republicans are divided. Where does the Democratic Party stand on -- I've not heard Howard Dean say, I'm all about opening the borders, all about amnesty, and I haven't heard him say he's about security? What's the deal?
SCHNEIDER: Well, the Democrats are basically standing back from this conflict, and they're letting Republicans fight among themselves. Why get involved in another party's brawl.
Most Democrats do support comprehensive reform. They supported it in the United States Senate. What's happening here is interesting, local Republicans, like the candidate here in Colorado are running an anti-Washington campaign against some of the positions taken by their party leaders in Washington on illegal immigration.
DOBBS: I've got a funny feeling voters in November are going to go through this -- these smoke screens on positions, and cut to the chase. And are not going to find -- I think that these strategists and candidates are going to find them a little hard to fool this time around.
SCHNEIDER: Could well be.
DOBBS: Bill Schneider, good to have you with us.
SCHNEIDER: Sure.
DOBBS: Tonight, states are being hit with massive costs in their efforts to install unreliable, insecure, e-voting technology, all across the country. We'll have that story.
And best-selling and prestigious historian Neal Ferguson, also one of my favorite historians, will be our guest here. His new book, says the West is seeing its influence decline, and he puts that in perspective -- and tells us why.
And is our National Guard stretched far too thin? Congress today heard important testimony on that very issue, the readiness of our National Guard. All of that and more coming right up. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: We've been reporting here extensively for more than a year on the threat posed by electronic voting machines to the integrity of our democracy. These voting machines, e-voting machines, have proved to be both unreliable and susceptible, vulnerable to fraud. They're also placing huge financial burdens on states and their taxpayers.
Kitty Pilgrim reports.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: In recent Maryland elections, electronic voting was a disaster. But even before that debacle, Maryland governor Robert Ehrlich complained in a letter to the state Board of Elections about the unreliability and the cost of electronic voting systems, writing, quote, "I no longer have confidence in the State Board of Elections' ability to conduct fair and accurate elections in 2006."
The costs listed in the letter are so outrageous, they look like a misprint. In 2001, the state estimated maintenance costs for voting systems would be $858,000 in 2006. But now State Board has requested $9.5 million, a 1,000 percent increase. Electronic voting companies sell licensed software upgrades, but most counties don't have the expertise to do it themselves.
LAWRENCE NORDEN, NYU BRENNAN CENTER: They have to pay the vendor to take care of the machine. And the vendor essentially has a monopoly, in that case, on programming. The vendor is the only one that has the code for the system, and they charge a lot per machine.
PILGRIM: NYU's Brennan Center will release a report in two weeks, but advanced copies provided to this broadcast estimate $250 to $1, 500 per machine, per election for programming, and $100 to $250 per machine for maintenance.
In Arkansas, 51 of the 75 counties use electronic voting machines. The director of the State Board of Elections says some of the counties are surprised at the cost.
SUSIE STORMES, DIR., ARK. BOARD OF ELECTION COMM.: It's going to require additional state dollars and the counties are going to have to appropriate additional monies to cover the continuing cost of conducting elections using this advanced technology.
PILGRIM: Costs that will be paid for by taxpayers with every new election.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(on camera): Now the Brennan Center is going cost calculator every legislator can access. And it calculates all the hidden costs that aren't in the initial sticker price.
DOBBS: This, frankly, smells to high heaven. You've got counties and states paying ten times as much for an election because of these machines, and having really terrible vulnerability to fraud. The training in many cases, as you've documented in your reporting, inadequate. I mean, this is just nuts.
PILGRIM: It's very outrageous. And these maintenance costs are huge.
DOBBS: What are the odds that we're going to see governors step in here and secretaries of state, Congress, this president -- and Lord, we're sitting here so close to these elections -- to do something to ensure the integrity of these elections?
PILGRIM: It is very tight, and there is some push back. Governor Ehrlich has been very, very vocal about it, but in some places it's just being overlooked.
DOBBS: That's a shame. Each of these politicians, certainly good at talking about it. They don't seem to be wanting to take much action.
Kitty, thank you very much. And of course you'll be keeping your eye on this throughout. We appreciate it -- Kitty Pilgrim.
The House of Representatives this afternoon passed legislation that would ultimately require all Americans to provide proof of citizenship at the polling place. The legislation calls upon all states to require voters to present a photo I.D. by the 2008 presidential elections. All voters would be required to present proof of citizenship by the 2010 elections.
The widening crisis of confidence in this nation's voting process is the subject of my column today online. Please go to loudobbs.com and you can have a few of my thoughts on it.
Let's talk about the poll tonight real quickly. The question is, how confident are you that your vote will count in this upcoming midterm election? Very, somewhat or not very. Cast your vote at lloudobbs.com. We'll have the results here later. An elementary school principal in Texas tonight says he just can't understand all the fuss over his decision to a Mexican Independence Day celebration in his school. During this school assembly, last Friday, parents of school children read the Pledge of Allegiance to the Mexican flag. Everyone was given a small Mexican flag, everyone was told to stand at attention as the Pledge of Allegiance to Mexico was read.
The principal of the Freeport, Texas school says he, quote, "deeply apologizes". But he says if he had to do it all over again, he would merely, quote, "revamp the celebration rather than cancel it entirely". I hope the good people there know what needs revamping. God speed.
On Capitol Hill, the Senate voted to begin debate on a bill to begin construction of a new 700 mile fence along our border with Mexico without seeking the approval of the Mexican government. The Senate voted 94 to zero to begin the debate. Senate leaders say they hope to pass that bill before the midterm election break.
Senator Jeff Sessions today urged his colleagues to stop talking about border security and actually do something, beginning with supporting this bill.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JEFF SESSIONS, (R) ALABAMA: We've always said we'd have these votes, and we've had these votes. But when the dust settles, we've never made it law and never made it reality. So I urge my colleagues to understand that. Without this legislation, we're not going to get there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: And in an interview with my colleague, Wolf Blitzer, President Bush said he supports the border fence legislation, that he would sign the bill. After months of demanding that the poor, foolish American people accept his idea of comprehensive immigration reform and demanding that Congress support it, President Bush today finally said he would sign the border security-only legislation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Yes, I'll sign it into law. And it's part of the appropriations process.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: In other words, if it's just a narrow focus on border security without the guest worker program or the other issues, you'll just take that for naught?
BUSH: I firmly believe the Senate and the House need to work together on a comprehensive plan to solve this problem. I would view this as an interim step, I don't view this as the final product. And I will keep urging people to have a comprehensive reform.
(END VIDEO CLIP) DOBBS: During that interview, President Bush denied his administration's been slow to strengthen border security. The president says it's taken so long to address border security, however, because it's a long border.
It's hard work, Mr. President, but you need to get it done.
You can watch more of Wolf Blitzer's interview with the president tonight 7:00 p.m. Efforts right here on CNN.
As the Senate begins its debate on the new border fence, efforts are intensifying to build a virtual fence on our borders. Congressional sources tonight say the government will select Boeing to lead a high-tech effort to try to secure both or northern and southern borders.
Under that multi-billion dollar contract, Boeing would install 1,800 foot high towers equipped with sensors and cameras on the borders. Critics point outlet more than $400 million has already been wasted on failed virtual fence technology, ridden but ineffective fences.
We are sure that if you spend a few more billion dollars on this approach, it might work, maybe.
An independent commission tonight holding hearings on the readiness of our National Guard. One of the key discussions in that hearing, the National Guard's presence on our southern border.
Casey Wian reports from San Diego.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: From the border in San Diego to the Iraqi desert, National Guard and Reserve troops are now being asked to do more than ever. A Congressionally appointed committee studying the readiness of the Guard and Reserves toured the border near San Diego Tuesday night, then began two days of hearings on the challenges they now face.
BRIG. GEN. DOUGLAS STONE, U.S. MARINE CORPS: That the Guard and Reserves, both as units and individual augmentees, are uniquely qualified and unquestionably essential in our national efforts to deter and defeat violent Islamists who threaten our nation today as no other enemy has before.
WIAN: Now the Guard is being stretched further with 6,000 troops all voluntarily deployed to the southern border. They're helping the Border Patrol by building access roads, fences and other border security infrastructure and watching.
MASTER SGT. MICHAEL DRAKE, CALIFORNIA NATIONAL GUARD: We're watching basically for people who would come across the border who mean us harm. It might be smuggling weapons in or contraband or drugs. The criminal element here WIAN: The Guard and the Border Patrol say the mission has been successful, increasing apprehensions and decreasing attempted illegal crossings. But that's tempered by frustration that troops are limited to an unarmed support role at the border, where increasingly violent smugglers threaten the Border Patrol almost daily.
ARNOLD PUNARO, CHMN., GUARD AND RESERVE COMM.: We will certainly look at, what is the mission they're being asked to do here on the border. Because you shouldn't ask anybody in the military, whether they're active or Reserve or Guard, to undertake a mission for which they're not either properly trained or properly equipped.
WIAN: A National Guard officer deployed on the border, who declined to give his name, told us the story of a young guardsman recently preparing to begin serving at the border. After learning about the rules of engagement, that he would be unarmed and unable to apprehend anyone, the guardsman declined to participate, saying his conscience wouldn't allow him to let an illegal alien or drug smuggler go free.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: The commission on the guard and reserves is holding hearings in other cities and is scheduled to deliver its final report to Congress in March, Lou.
DOBBS: Any chance we can find out the name of that young guardsman and put him up for a medal?
WIAN: I don't think we'll be able to find out the name of the young guardsman, but I can tell you this. That same officer told me -- and this is an officer who served in Iraq -- he has never seen a situation so politicized as the one with the national guard and the border patrol on the U.S. border.
DOBBS: And the idea, just to keep this in some perspective, that we have apparently put some of our border patrol agents to work to protect our unarmed national guardsman who were sent down to help our border patrol agents?
WIAN: It makes you wonder how they're able to continue to say that they're being as fully effective as they could be.
DOBBS: It's amazing. If there were ever a time for people to understand that it's about time we got through with P.R. politics and P.R. government and just found a way in which to get the job done for which we elect our officials and make this government work the way it should. I think that's asking a lot. I realize that. Casey and I will not ruminate further. Casey Wian, thank you very much.
Coming up next, three of the country's very best political analysts join me. And I'll be joined by the author of an important new book about violence in the 20th century, the contest between powers and the decline of western dominance. Niall Ferguson, the author of "The War of the World" joins us here. Stay here.
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DOBBS: As the United States fights a global war against radical Islamist terrorists, our military has stretched almost to the breaking point, providing fewer than 200,000 troops to fight in both Iraq and Afghanistan.
In his provocative, important new book, historian Niall Ferguson draws on the lessons of the past, of course as historians are want to do. But with his exceptional talent, it's brilliant and he tries to determine whether the United States is really an imperial power. Niall Ferguson's book is "The War of the World: A 20th Century Conflict and Descent of the West." Niall Ferguson, professor of history at Harvard University. Good to have you here.
NIALL FERGUSON, AUTHOR: It's great to be here, Lou.
DOBBS: The idea that the most important development of the 20th century is the rise of the East. There seems to be adequate evidence to support your view as we look toward China, toward India. Precisely what do you mean?
FERGUSON: Well it goes against the grain, doesn't it, because we are used to thinking of the 20th Century as the American century. I remember a book called the "Triumph of the West" that I read not so many years ago. And yet the truth of the matter is that the West, including western Europe and the United States, was at the top of its game in 1900. And I think the story of the 20th century is a kind of very bumpy, relative decline as Asia, which already accounted for half of the world's population in 1900 gradually bounced back from its real nadir in the 19th century. You could see World War II is in many ways the first big push by an Asian power to reassert its control over Asia. It was unsuccessful, but of course Japan didn't take long to recover economically from 1945.
DOBBS: Absolutely. You also make the point interestingly that you've seen great parallels between the crisis in Europe in the last century and what is evolving in the Middle East now. How so?
FERGUSON: Well, after the first world war, an American president said that democratization would transform the politics of central and eastern Europe, that there would be self determination, nation states and free elections. It wasn't long before...
DOBBS: Woodrow Wilson?
FERGUSON: ... this is Woodrow Wilson, who thought democracy would solve the problems of that very unstable part of the world. Well pretty soon that part of the world fell apart into rogue regimes and failed states and ultimately another war arose. I fear something similar is happening in the Middle East in our time as an attempt to democratize the region, which is very well intentioned, I'm sure, is unleashing forces, which I don't think we're equipped to contain. The civil war that's getting underway in Iraq reminds me forcibly of things that happened in the 1930s and '40s in Europe.
DOBBS: The expression that the path to hell is paved with good intentions is never more apt than when applied to politicians and elected officials.
FERGUSON: American idealism is a wonderful thing, but it's also a dangerous thing in certain parts of the world.
DOBBS: Yes, when it's combined with a failure to carefully read history, as you know. The idea that China is moving to the forefront, some are suggesting as the last, whether mistakenly or not, was called the American century, that this will be the Chinese century. Your focus on what some have styled a reluctant empire in the case of the United States. What do you see evolving over the next 40, 50 years?
FERGUSON: Well, it's interesting, 100 years ago there was an English speaking empire that exported capital to the rest of the world, including Asia and indeed to China. Today there's an English speaking empire -- it doesn't like to call itself an empire, but the United States imports capital and is increasingly dependent on flows of capital from the east, inside from the People's Bank of China, which has been providing President Bush with an overdraft facility practically since he came into office.
That is a real turnaround. I think that illustrates precisely what I mean by the descent of the West. The extent to which the gap between our incomes and Chinese incomes is closed, in just the space of 20 years, is mind boggling. And pretty soon, the Chinese economy could be as big as the U.S. economy, some say as early as 2030.
DOBBS: It baffles me to the extent that American government leaders, elected officials in both party, many of the elites whether in business or politics have an overwhelming hubris that suggests that we are a superpower that is infallible and has resources are unlimited, your book does a brilliant job of bringing into question arrogance in all its force, whether it's a transitory empire almost thousand years in the case of the Roman or perhaps something a little shorter in the case of America.
Niall Ferguson, good to have you with us.
FERGUSON: Thank you, Lou.
DOBBS: Fascinating, "The War on the World." Look forward to seeing you soon. All the best with the book, terrific.
Coming up next here, one of the top generals in Iraq says the violence against our troops is rising. Three of the best political minds in this country join me to assess the importance. Stay with us.
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WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. Coming up at the top of the hour, my exclusive interview with President Bush. I asked him the tough questions on Iraq, Iran, what he's doing to find Osama bin Laden.
Plus I press him hard on immigration and securing our borders. I also ask if he's playing politics with terrorism. In the process the president makes news. Also, another president making news. The Venezuelan leader, Hugo Chavez, standing before the U.N. General Assembly, calling President Bush the Devil. CNN has an exclusive interview.
All of that coming up, thanks to CNN Espagnol. Plus, President Bill Clinton, he's in New York as well. Larry King sat down with him today. We'll have some of that. A "SITUATION ROOM" lineup of presidents, all starting right at the top of the hour. LOU DOBBS TONIGHT will be right back.
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DOBBS: Joining me now, three of the best political minds in the country and my favorites here in New York, Michael Goodwin, columnist "New York Daily News," Democratic strategist Robert Zimmerman and "Washington Times" columnist Diana West from our nation's capital.
Diana, first, if I may, your reaction to Hugo Chavez, who apparently does not like the President of the United States.
DIANA WEST, "THE WASHINGTON TIMES": No, he doesn't. I guess we knew that before, but we didn't know how far he would go. I suppose it would be funny if it weren't also that this is a very great elevation for him on the world stage. And that isn't as funny.
DOBBS: I agree with Diana on that, Michael. There's a lack of proportion in the United Nations. It may be very egalitarian in the minds of some to give Hugo Chavez the same framework as you would the prime minister of India. It doesn't seem to make a lot of sense?
MICHAEL GOODWIN, "NEW YORK DAILY NEWS": It doesn't. Unfortunately there's a kind of hanging them with their own rope, I that is what is happening here. I mean Chavez and Ahmadinejad yesterday, I think both come off as foolish and kind of bit players on the big league stage. I think they clearly aren't ready for it. So I think it does help President Bush to have those kinds of enemies. I think it's one of the reasons that the president's poll numbers are going to continue to rise.
ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I think Ambassador Bolton's response to Hugo Chavez was totally correct apt. He handled it very well. I think before we dismiss them as bit players, especially in the case of Iran, we're seeing now the Iranian government become truly the beneficiary of our quagmire in Iraq. That's a great concern because we're so weighed down right now in this tragedy in Iraq that we are truly losing our moral and political authority to lead effective coalitions.
DOBBS: Go ahead, Diana.
WEST: Well I was just going to say, it's not just that they're a beneficiary. They're partially the cause of it. They're fomenting all kinds of unrest and terror operations within Iraq.
ZIMMERMAN: And remember, they're doing it also by embracing the government that we put in power. Let's not dismiss that as well. WEST: No, that's a big problem. And the government we put in power is also starting to embrace Iran.
GOODWIN: Well, I think one of the things you can see with Ahmadinejad yesterday, though, is this notion that if we want to get along with Iran, we're going to have to give up Israel, we're going to have to give up on Iraq, we're going to have to pull everything out of the Middle East. I mean, he used the word aggressor about 20 times. So any move, any foreign policy we have, he doesn't want, gives him license for terrorism.
DOBBS: You mean in his mind?
GOODWIN: In his mind.
ZIMMERMAN: I think you have to remember, though, and this is the critical point, moving forward in the Middle East, if we're going to have any effectiveness at all, we have to be able to have the moral authority and credibility to be able to build coalitions and the reality is, we took a go it alone strategy in the first Bush term and Bush got his wish. He's going it alone. We're paying a price for it.
DOBBS: He also took a go it alone policy on comprehensive immigration reform, Diana, what he loves to call comprehensive immigration reform, amnesty. It looks like that's being shoved up the nose of this White House. This president and both political parties, who didn't have the sense to listen to their constituents. What do you think the impact will be in November?
WEST: Well I'm hoping the impact in November will be to put some -- back the Republicans who are interested in border security. I think that that's a very big possibility. And I think that this, you know, we're watching this play out, as you talked about tonight, in the states in a very dramatic fashion.
ZIMMERMAN: Well Diana, if the Republican congressional leadership showed they were committed to border security, they might have that option, but they've dropped the ball every time. The most recent scam is the Mexican fence. Which I strongly support, the fence along the Mexican border. The House passed it without appropriating any funds to go to construct it and the Senate version only appropriates funds for a third of that Mexican fence.
GOODWIN: I think we have news here, Lou. I mean a Democratic party operative, such as Bob, supporting border security. I think this is news.
DOBBS: Howard Dean is on the phone right now?
ZIMMERMAN: On eight different occasions Democrats have voted to increase our border security and the Republican Congress defeated those measures.
DOBBS: Let's talk about those November elections. Robert was kind enough to take my wife and I to a screening last night of "All The King's Men." Sean Penn, by the way, I will tell you in my humble opinion, I have no standing of this whatsoever, I thought was absolutely brilliant. If he doesn't get an Academy Award for his performance, I don't know what would. But it is a powerful, powerful film about politics, the role of -- it's extraordinary that we're starting to see a number of very powerful political movies enter the arena right now.
ZIMMERMAN: And what makes "All the Kings Men" so important is that it's so relevant for today, especially when it comes to the issues and matters like voter fraud and manipulation of the electorate by corporate power and corporate influence. I think it's a powerful message to both parties.
DOBBS: What do you think?
GOODWIN: Well, I think in Louisiana, the problem is the Democrats, not the Republicans. So I think that --
ZIMMERMAN: They could have made the movie in Florida as far as I'm concerned.
DOBBS: And you know what, Diana, I don't know if you've had the opportunity to see this movie. But it also shows the treacherous, dangerous position that a journalist assumes with neutrality when he or she assumes neutrality and forgets that that is often the same as complicity with power. It is a powerful film. These elections, who wins, Democrats or Republicans, House and Senate, Diana?
WEST: Oh, I think the Senate will go Democratic and I think the House will stay Republican.
ZIMMERMAN: I think actually right now it's moving in Republican favors in both. I think it's very unlikely the Democrats will take the Senate. More likely will take the House. But right now I think it's very much in flux.
GOODWIN: I give the Democrats over a 50 percent chance of capturing the House and slightly under 50 percent at the Senate. Bottom line is, Democrats are strongly in play and it's going to really be a late night.
DOBBS: And the gubernatorial races, any significant shift there? Anybody want to weigh in on that?
ZIMMERMAN: Ohio in particular. That's the one to watch. It goes back to you issue about the issue of making sure our voters rights are protected by making sure we have proper balloting and proper machines.
GOODWIN: Michigan could go Republican from Democrat.
DOBBS: Diana?
WEST: I'm not sure. I think those are both good observations.
DOBBS: Diana, I think when one is not sure that that is a terrific answer, and by god, none of us is sure. And we thank you very much, Diana West, as always. And Michael Goodwin, thank you very much. Robert Zimmerman, thank you.
The results of our poll tonight, 56 percent of you say you are not very confident your vote will count in this upcoming midterm election, 30 percent say you are somewhat confident, 13 say you are very confident. We'll keep watching this story of e-voting and its threat to our democracy. We thank you for being with us tonight. Please join us here tomorrow. For all of us, thanks for watching. Good night from New York. "THE SITUATION ROOM" begins now with Wolf Blitzer, Wolf.
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