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American Morning
Torture Rampant in Iraq; New Orleans Nursing Home Owners Indicted; Congress Debates Border Fence for Immigration
Aired September 21, 2006 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Torture is rampant in Iraq. A new report describes in horrifying detail what's happening to victims at detention centers.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez greeted with applause at the U.N. after he called President Bush the devil repeatedly.
S. O'BRIEN: And President Bush standing tough on Iran. We've got more of Wolf Blitzer's exclusive interview just ahead.
M. O'BRIEN: Safe and sound on terra firma -- a picture perfect touch down for the Space Shuttle Atlantis.
And stuck in flight -- an Ultralight pilot tries a high wire act, although he didn't want to, ahead on this AMERICAN MORNING.
S. O'BRIEN: Welcome back, everybody.
I'm Soledad O'Brien.
M. O'BRIEN: And I'm Miles O'Brien.
Thanks for being with us.
We begin this morning with a trouble look behind the unrelenting violence in Iraq. A new United Nations report warns increased sectarian violence is ending in torture and the murder of thousands of Iraqis.
Beyond that, the report says torture is rampant inside Iraqi detention centers.
CNN's Arwa Damon live from Baghdad with more -- Arwa.
DAMON: That's right, Miles.
And the reports that we're getting, the descriptions of the type of torture that's happening is really chilling. We're talking about acid burns, bodies with eyes gouged out, bits of skin missing, torture -- electrical torture. And the list just goes on and on and on. And this is as sectarian violence is increasing throughout the country.
In that report it says that in two months, July and August alone, 6,600 Iraqis lost their lives. But, of that number, over 50 percent due to sectarian violence in the capital, Baghdad. More and more we're seeing sectarian violence becoming an indicator of just how things are going.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "NEWSHOUR WITH JIM LEHRER," COURTESY PBS)
GEN. JOHN ABIZAID, COMMANDER, U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND: Success will be judged by the level of sectarian violence, murders in particular, in the areas where we're operating being less. And it's certainly -- look, it's a program that involves not just putting military forces on the street, but it also requires that Iraqi and U.S. Special Forces go after the death squads. We have to target them, we have to do the intelligence work necessary to know where they are, then we've got to go after them and take them out of action.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DAMON: Targeting those death squads, though, does provide new and unique challenges for the U.S. and Iraqi security forces because, at times, it does cross into politically sensitive territory.
But I can't highlight exactly how important it is to bring an end to these death squads. Iraqis increasingly are fearing becoming the victims of sectarian violence. Then they fear the insurgent bombings. They hear time and time again -- and sometimes they see for themselves -- what the aftermath of being the victim of one of these suicide killings can do. And it really is horrific -- Miles.
M. O'BRIEN: Arwa Damon in Baghdad.
Thank you very much -- Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: U.S. policy in Iraq has opened up President Bush to a storm of criticism at the U.N. The loudest critics have been Iran's president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, and Venezuela's president, Hugo Chavez.
Mr. Chavez pushed the boundaries of diplomacy, certainly, when he called President Bush the devil.
Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRES. HUGO CHAVEZ, VENEZUELA (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): The devil came here yesterday. Yesterday the devil came here, right here. Right here. And it smells of sulfur still today. This table that I am now standing in front of.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
S. O'BRIEN: Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice says the remarks were "not becoming for a head of state."
Former President Bill Clinton also says that Mr. Chavez's comments didn't do any good. Mr. Clinton sat down with CNN's Larry King and said the Venezuelan president isn't helping himself or his country by spouting that kind of rhetoric.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "LARRY KING LIVE")
BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think Chavez would be much more effective if he would say something that's true, like whether you believe in trade or not, it doesn't solve all the problems and a lot of people in Latin America are still living below the poverty line, who bought into our democracy agenda and our trade agenda. And, therefore, I'm going to try to find a better answer that's more equitable for all these hard working people.
You know, to me, that would be a much cleverer thing for him to do, where he'd really be doing something good. And he could say I disagree with President Bush, instead of calling him the devil.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
M. O'BRIEN: By comparison, Iran's president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, sounds almost like a voice of moderation.
He spoke exclusively with CNN's Anderson Cooper.
He says he wants peace with all countries.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "ANDERSON COOPER 360")
PRESIDENT MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD, IRAN (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): Our message is the message of peace and brotherhood with all nations, with all people. And we like all nations and people. We are against oppression and injustice. And we -- we love the American people, as we love our own. We respect everyone.
And to clarify issues, I called Mr. Bush to debate. I propose that we sit and have a debate to talk about our positions, to discuss issues and allow everyone around the world to hear the debate. This will -- it was a great suggestion, I think, because I believe that, after all, it is the public opinion, the world public opinion, that must have information and decide.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
M. O'BRIEN: Now, President Bush has rejected the idea of a debate with Mr. Ahmadinejad.
And in an exclusive interview with CNN's Wolf Blitzer, the president was firm about the conditions under which the U.S. will talk to Iran.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "THE SITUATION ROOM")
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Our position is very clear to the Iranians, that if they want to sit down with American officials that they first must verifiably suspend their enrichment program. They know our position. The world knows our position. And I clarified it at the United Nations...
WOLF BLITZER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: But if it would help...
BUSH: ... over the past...
BLITZER: ... if it would help to sit down, talk to them and try to convince them -- you know, there have been other moments where great leaders have made that major decision to have a breakthrough -- Nixon going to China, Sadat going to Jerusalem.
What would be wrong to just sit down with them and tell them, you know what, here are the options before you?
BUSH: Yes, well, he knows the options before him. I've made that very clear.
Secondly, Wolf, in order for there to be effective diplomacy, you can't keep changing your word. At an important moment in these negotiations with the EU3 and Iran, we made it clear we would come to the table, but we would come to the table only if they verifiably suspended their enrichment program.
And the reason that's important, that they verifiably suspend, is because we don't want them to have the technologies necessary to be able to build a nuclear weapon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
M. O'BRIEN: You can watch "THE SITUATION ROOM" with Wolf Blitzer every weekday at 4:00 and 7:00 Eastern right here on CNN.
Anderson Cooper weeknights at 10:00 Eastern, all here on CNN -- Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: A grand jury has indicted the owners of a New Orleans area nursing home where 35 patients died after Hurricane Katrina.
CNN's Susan Roesgen is live in New Orleans and has details on this -- good morning, Susan.
SUSAN ROESGEN, GULF COAST CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad.
There were 35 residents who died in St. Rita's Nursing Home in St. Bernard Parish in the floodwaters that came just after the hurricane came through.
Now, the owners of that nursing home, Salvador and Mabel Mangano, have been indicted on 35 counts of negligent homicide, one count for every person who died.
The owners have said all along that they just didn't realize the danger from the flood and that they thought that an evacuation would be too risky for the frail and elderly patients who were there, so they thought they would ride it out.
Well, we talked to the son of one of the victims who said that was the wrong decision for the nursing home owners to make.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TOM RODRIGUE, MOTHER DIED AT ST. RITA'S: She may not have been able to survive the ordeal at her age even if she would have evacuated, but she deserved a chance.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
S. O'BRIEN: That was Tom Rodrigue.
His mother died in St. Rita's Nursing Home and he had tried to get to the nursing home to help evacuate and he was turned away. He is the person who also runs evacuation for another parish. And, as he talked to his mother, it was impossible. The hurricane was approaching. He couldn't get to her at the final minutes and knew something very bad was going to happen. A terrible story there -- Miles.
M. O'BRIEN: Happening in America now, police in Colorado make an arrest in the dragging death of a woman, but still no word on who she was. The woman's body horribly disfigured. An autopsy shows she was alive when that dragging began. Thirty-six-year-old Jose Luis Rubi- Nava, an illegal immigrant, facing a first degree murder charge.
The spinach recall widening. RBJ Food in New Jersey says it is recalling some of the spinach it distributed on the East Coast. This follows two other companies that are doing the same. Now, 23 states affected by the E. coli outbreak linked to spinach.
In Ohio, a high wire act by an Ultralight pilot, an act he didn't bargain for. Just a few hours ago, workers rescued a man in an Ultralight ensnared in some power lines since 7:30 last night. He was trying to land on his property near Cincinnati which it happened.
The crew of the Space Shuttle Atlantis back home on Earth right now. Atlantis landed at Florida's Kennedy Space Center earlier this morning, wrapping up an 11-day mission to the International Space Station.
It's a beautiful morning in Florida.
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: It is.
M. O'BRIEN: It's kind of chilly here.
Let's get a forecast -- hello, Chad.
(WEATHER REPORT)
S. O'BRIEN: Ahead this morning, Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez's fiery speech got a little applause from the crowd.
What was the reaction, though, behind-the-scenes?
CNN's Richard Roth was there. He'll tell us what people were saying just ahead.
And then a closer look at the crisis in Darfur. Millions of people displaced, hundreds of thousands dying.
How do you begin to solve the massive problem in that region?
We'll talk to President Bush's brand new envoy for Sudan about his tough job ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
M. O'BRIEN: It was a real jaw dropper at the United Nations yesterday. The Venezuelan president, Hugo Chavez,
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHAVEZ (THROUGH TRANSLATOR):
Yesterday the devil came here, right here, right here. And it smells of sulfur still today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
M. O'BRIEN: It was a real jaw dropper at the United Nations yesterday.
The Venezuelan president, Hugo Chavez, seized the podium and seized the moment with a diatribe aimed at President Bush, who spoke in the same spot only 24 hours before.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHAVEZ (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): And the devil came here yesterday. Yesterday the devil came here, right here. Right here. And it smells of sulfur still today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
M. O'BRIEN: Our senior United Nations correspondent, Richard Roth, has been covering the United Nations for 13 years.
And you can't recall one quite like this, can you?
RICHARD ROTH, SENIOR UNITED NATIONS CORRESPONDENT: No, it was very unique, Miles.
You don't hear a world leader publicly attack another directly like that, with such descriptive inflammatory language.
M. O'BRIEN: It's interesting, though, he -- in the course of doing this -- of course, not a completely full house, but a fair number of people there, about midday yesterday, there were -- there were a lot of snickers. And there was a lot of applause.
How do we read that? ROTH: I think you read it that a lot of the general assembly membership is frustrated over the last few years especially of hearing the U.S. the biggest power, personally attack them -- personally attack countries directly in a policy that many say is a bully policy, using the bully pulpit. And they don't like that. And they don't like that the U.S. is number one, but they don't want to be constantly reminded of it and they don't want to see the U.S. in the Middle East and elsewhere with a swagger.
M. O'BRIEN: It's interesting, in the days of the cold war, when there was kind of a ying and yang in the world of adversaries, was there -- there wasn't this kind of rhetoric. There was kind of a diplomatic sort of rules of the game that was approached, right?
ROTH: It was more country to country. You didn't hear Nixon, Khrushchev one-on-one. But, look, when President Bush says "bring it on," which he's even acknowledged was a mistake, you hear overseas a lot we don't like the American policies. We love the American people. And but this was a chance for the world to fight back, at least for one day, and they're going to use Chavez. He is a very good public outlet. It's more personalities these days. I mean it's like Jerry Springer around the world.
M. O'BRIEN: Well, that's an interesting point.
Has diplomacy devolved to that point?
ROTH: Well, look, President Bush's father was a little bit more diplomatic in building coalitions on Iraq. But the world, in some ways, has changed. I mean that President Bush didn't have two commercial airliners going into the World Trade Center here at home. The game has changed now.
M. O'BRIEN: It's interesting, though, Chavez said it and Ahmadinejad said it, you know, harsh criticism of the United Nations itself, in particular the Security Council, calling it worthless. And yet there they were using that podium to speak to the world.
ROTH: And Chavez wants a seat on the Security Council, to be a major player. He could be a big irritant for the U.S. inside the Security Council, when the U.S. may need Venezuela's vote, even though Venezuela will not have a veto like the U.S.
That's another thing that many people still dislike inside the U.N. The world has changed, they say. Sixty years later, why do five countries still have veto power while key economic powers like India, Germany, Brazil, are not sitting on the same Security Council?
So they want to see the chairs rearranged.
M. O'BRIEN: Would -- is that likely ever to change, though?
ROTH: They've been talking about it for all the 13 years I've been at the U.N. They cannot decide how many countries should get chairs, who has the veto. And if you think the general assembly gets nothing done, with 192 countries, how about an expanded Security Council of 25?
There's only 15 now.
M. O'BRIEN: So Chavez says it's worthless, and yet he's determined to be a part of the Security Council.
Explain that one.
ROTH: Well, he would like to be a player. And I think he would -- they want to reform the U.N. There are too many speeches and too many worthless documents.
M. O'BRIEN: Yes. And I -- when you say player, that's the thing, I think, that probably links Ahmadinejad and Chavez here. They have elevated themselves to a level that puts them in the world limelight. It seems like they're basking in it in some sense.
ROTH: Right. Well, they are personality driven. They are very public people. He's got oil. Maybe Iran will -- Ahmadinejad would have the bomb. I mean they have a lot now to back up their words and that's why -- another reason people are listening, too.
M. O'BRIEN: What are people saying sort of privately in the halls there, the old diplomatic hands there? Is there a bit of nostalgia for the old days?
ROTH: Well, I think these are the new old days and I think they like the fact that the U.N. people are listening and paying attention. I mean, some were aghast. Condoleezza Rice said it was not worthy of a head of state. John Bolton said it was insulting.
We'll see how it plays over the next few days. That election on whether Venezuela gets on the Security Council, October 14th, running against Guatemala. And the U.S. is doing everything it can to stop Venezuela.
M. O'BRIEN: They'll be pushing for Guatemala, I guess, huh?
ROTH: Oh, that's right. I mean and that's a -- this will be another litmus test on the U.S. at the U.N. and on the world stage, who wins that seat.
M. O'BRIEN: And you'll be there.
ROTH: It'll be a secret ballot by the same members of the general assembly who Chavez spoke to.
M. O'BRIEN: Oh, interesting.
All right, Richard Roth, thank you very much for your insights -- Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: Well, who knew that the Venezuelan president's support would give such a huge boost to a book that hadn't been selling a whole lot lately? During his talk at the U.N. you might recall, Hugo Chavez waved a book by the American writer, Noam Chomsky. It's called "Hegemony Or Survival: America's Quest for Global Dominance."
There he is waving that book as he gives his speech.
Chavez goes on to recommend the book for reading for the members of general assembly and he says then especially for Americans. So the book that was number 15,092 on Amazon.com's best seller list has risen to number seven. That's a big endorsement.
Ahead this morning, we're going to take a look at a big fight that's brewing on Capitol Hill over a giant fence.
Can it really make the border with Mexico-more secure?
We'll take a look.
And in our health series for people in their 30s and their 40s and their 50s, we're going to tell you how your nails tell a whole lot about the rest of your body as you get older.
That's ahead.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
S. O'BRIEN: Believe it or not, the condition of your nails can provide some important clues about your health.
Medical correspondent Judy Fortin has more in our health series for people in their 30s and their 40s and their 50s.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK?
DOMENICA PARASCANDOLA, NAIL PATIENT: Um-hmm.
JUDY FORTIN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Fifty-five- year-old Domenica Parascandola works at a medi spa in New York City and is devoted to anti-aging.
PARASCANDOLA: When I look at my nails, you start seeing ridges. They're not as smooth as they used to be.
DR. BRUCE KATZ, AMERICAN ACADEMY OF DERMATOLOGY: Now, I understand you're having a problem with your toes there.
FORTIN: Today, it's not aging, but white flecks on her big toe that has Parascandola visiting her doctor. The diagnosis is a fungus, easily treated by antibiotics.
KATZ: And you'll be fine. No problem. FORTIN: While it's nail infections that get our attention, nails are also an important predictor of health. And like hair and skin, nails change in our 30s, 40s and 50s.
In a healthy nail, cells within the nail bed produce keratin, a protein that forms the nail plate. The lunula is overlapped by the cuticle, which protects those keratin cells.
In your 30s, the most common problem is onychomycosis, a big word for fungus. While manicures and pedicures can increase your risk, it's actually twice as common among men than women, and in both sexes, risk increases with age.
In your 40s, hormonal changes can make nails drier and brittle. Smoking and sun-exposure also take a toll. And dermatologists say it's as important to protect and moisturize nails as skin. And while slight changes in texture are normal, black or brown spots are not.
KATZ: That may be an early sign of malignant melanoma, which is a very serious skin cancer.
FORTIN: In your 50s, nails are an important predictor of disease, signaling everything from iron deficiencies to more serious problems.
KATZ: Blood diseases can have effects in the nail.
PARASCANDOLA: I will not get old, not that fast, anyway.
FORTIN: While Parascandola's concerns are mostly cosmetic for now, she knows the one thing that trumps good grooming is good health. And she's keeping an eye on her nails.
Judy Fortin, CNN, reporting.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
S. O'BRIEN: So what can you do in your 30s and your 40s and your 50s to protect your nail health?
Well, here's some advice. Don't take gelatin. Don't take special vitamins. Don't use lotions and potions to improve your nails. Just don't do it. In fact, dermatologists say there's very little proof that any of that stuff works.
What you can do, though, is soak your hands and feet in warm water for five to 10 minutes. Then apply moisturizer to your nails and that means it'll be better absorbed that way.
Just a little tip for you -- Miles.
M. O'BRIEN: Thank you.
Thank you.
S. O'BRIEN: Sure. M. O'BRIEN: I hope we didn't ruin everybody's breakfast there...
S. O'BRIEN: Oh, that was...
M. O'BRIEN: ... with those fungus nails there.
S. O'BRIEN: Oh.
M. O'BRIEN: Anyway, we apology for that.
Still to come on the program, a price break at the gas pump may be having an unexpected effect on other businesses.
We'll explain that ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
S. O'BRIEN: Good morning.
Welcome back, everybody.
I'm Soledad O'Brien.
M. O'BRIEN: And I'm Miles O'Brien.
Carol Costello in the newsroom with a look at the headlines -- hello, Carol.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Miles.
And good morning to all of you.
Thailand's new military rulers are clamping down. They've banned meetings of political parties and the establishment of new parties. They're also putting limits on public meetings and restrictions on the media. The coup leaders say it's necessary in order to maintain peace and order.
In the meantime, Thailand's ousted prime minister is lying low in London, saying he's taking a deserved rest.
In the Hungarian capital of Budapest, another night of protest. But police say they are regaining control. About 15,000 protesters caused a third night of unrest. But by early morning, there were only about 100 protesters left. The demonstrations were set off by a tape in which the prime minister admitted to lying about Hungary's budget crisis.
President Bush is heading to the Sunshine State this afternoon on a GOP fundraising trip. The first stop will be Tampa, where he will attend a $1,000-a-plate reception for congressional candidate Bilirakis.
Then it's on to Orlando to support gubernatorial nominee, Charlie Crist. In the meantime, a CBS/"New York Times" poll shows President Bush's approval rating is at 37 percent, with a 56 percent disapproving of how he's doing his job.
In California today, two "San Francisco-Chronicle" reporters will find out if they have to go to prison. The reporters, Lance Williams, Mark Fainaru-Wada, have refused to reveal who leaked secret testimony from Barry Bonds and others in the government's steroid probe.
After a journey of 4.9 million miles and 12 days, the crew of the Space Shuttle Atlantis back on Earth today. The six member crew landed safe and sound at the Kennedy Space Center this morning. Here's the crew getting off the shuttle just a short time ago. The mission was a success. They attached a key truss and a solar array to the International Space Station.
That's a look at the headlines this morning.
Back to you -- Miles.
M. O'BRIEN: Thank you very much, Carol.
Coming up in the program, in Washington, immigration reform coming off the back burner for another round of debate. This time, there's no talk of amnesty, but rather a focus on building a fence, a very big fence.
Congressional correspondent Dana Bash with more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Harkin, aye.
DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It has been stalled in the Senate for four months.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The ayes are 94, the nays are zero.
BASH: Suddenly, a unanimous vote to take up immigration again. But this debate is a far cry from the comprehensive immigration reform President Bush wanted. This is about building a huge fence, a double layered 700-mile fence, at several illegal immigration hot spots along the U.S.-Mexican border.
SEN. JEFF SESSIONS (R) ALABAMA: It will establish operational control of the border. Now, most people think we ought to have that now, but we haven't.
BASH: Democrats compared the fence to the Berlin Wall.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A wall of this magnitude would be a scar on our landscape.
BASH: They estimate it would cost taxpayers $9 million a mile, $6.6 billion total, and call it an election year Republican stunt. SEN. KEN SALAZAR (D), COLORADO: It is a cop-out and it is a political gimmick that is being played on the people of the United States of America.
BASH: Back in May, the Senate passed comprehensive immigration reform with great fanfare.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a success for the American people.
BASH: But that hope for sweeping changes, a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants, was blocked. Conservatives on the campaign trail like Senator Rick Santorum called the president's approach amnesty for law breakers.
SEN. RICK SANTORUM (R), PENNSYLVANIA: And we need to deliver first on border security.
SEN. BILL FRIST (R), MAJORITY LEADER: It's pretty clear to everyone that we will not reach a conference agreement on comprehensive immigration reform before we break in September.
BASH: Putting immigration reform on the sidelines is a blow to a president who made it a priority with a primetime address.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I support a temporary worker program that would create a legal path for foreign workers.
BASH: Now Republicans are looking for a pre-election accomplishment, and border security fits into their "We'll defend Americans" talking points. Mr. Bush tells CNN he'd sign off on the fence, and try to revive his guest worker program down the road.
BUSH: I would view this as an interim step. I don't view this as the final product.
BASH (on camera): The fence is just one part of the Republicans' get tough on security strategy. The GOP-led House passed a measure requiring proof of citizenship to vote, and they plan to criminalize digging tunnels used to smuggle illegal immigrants and drugs beneath the U.S.-Mexican border.
Dana Bash, CNN, Capitol Hill.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
S. O'BRIEN: Looking to Africa now. These are desperate times for the millions of people who have been displaced in the Darfur region of Sudan. So far, more than 200,000 people have been killed, another 2.5 million people displaced. Now, there's word that the African Union will keep peacekeeping troops there, at least until the end of the year.
What's the U.S. doing to bring about change in the region? That's a big question for a guy who's got a big new job. His name is Andrew Natsios, and he's just been named the president's first special envoy for Sudan.
It's nice to see you. Congratulations...
ANDREW NATSIOS, WHITE HOUSE SPECIAL ENVOY FOR SUDAN: Thank you.
S. O'BRIEN: ... on a job -- and in a lot of ways, you've got a lot of work ahead of you. You're two days in. Maybe it's not fair to ask, what's the plan for solving what really, at the essence, is the violence problem in Sudan?
NATSIOS: Well, just to put this in context, the tactics being used in Darfur, the same tactics that were used against the Southerners for 22 years, where 2.5 million people died during that war. We have a peace agreement between the north and the south. It's not being implemented to the satisfaction of everyone, but there is peace. There is reconstruction going on in the south. And we have to understand that we have a model that did work once.
And so I think the first option for us now is very aggressive diplomacy. A lot of the world communities are united against Sudan. We need now to get Arab countries, the Chinese -- the Chinese have been saying the right things publicly, but in terms of pressing the Sudanese, it does not appear they've been putting a huge amount of pressure on them, to change their tactics. And the Chinese are bolstering the Sudanese economy because they run the oil fields.
S. O'BRIEN: For a while it looked like the African Union troops who have been there, not particularly well-funded. You know, not -- a lot of criticism about those troops, frankly, but that's what's there, that maybe they would be kicked out. And that didn't happen. That's been sort of put off for a little bit. But U.N. troops, many people say, need to be there. How do you get that when the president of Sudan makes it very clear, no way?
NATSIOS: I think that's where aggressive diplomacy comes in. I think that President Bashir is assuming that he has all Muslim countries, which he certainly does not have, with him. I think there are a number of Arab countries that are very uncomfortable with what's going on in Darfur, that's embarrassing to the Arab states. And I think some of them are beginning to change their mind about this. And using them, along with the Chinese and some other powers that have been supportive of the Sudanese government, perhaps we can turn his mind and try to get them to agree to have the U.N. troops.
We have to have the U.N. troops, not just because -- the Africans actually have actually done a reasonably good job. There is just not enough of them. There are 5,800. The resolution plan calls for 17,000 U.N. troops, of which the Africans would be part. So we'd be combining the U.N. with the African union. And we think that that will stabilize the situation.
And then we need to move through the next phase. And the next phase is very important. This is the third war in Darfur. People don't realize that. The third war in Darfur in 17 years. I went to the first one in 1990, 16 years ago. We can't have another one. Each war is bloodier, more people die in it. And we've got to deal with the development issues. The desert, Sahara Desert,is moving south, and people are on the edge of having their cultures destroyed.
S. O'BRIEN: There are some people who say maybe you need to do peacekeeping by force. If he's not going to accept U.N. peacekeepers, well then you figure out a way. And, you know, listen to what the president said. I think we have this clip. The president sort of hinted at when he was asked about what should happen there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: The regime in Khartoum is stopping the deployment of this force. If the Sudanese government does not approve this peacekeeping force quickly, the United Nations must act.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
S. O'BRIEN: They must act. Some people say that's kind of a veiled reference to maybe a forceful implementation of peacekeepers, which is a little oxymoronic, on its front. But do you see -- could you see that happening?
NATSIOS: I think at this point, at this point, we need to try to get the Sudanese government to accept this. The best way for those troops to come into Darfur is with the approval of the Sudanese government. If we have to take other tactics later on, we'll come to that bridge when the first option fails. But I don't think that's the preferred option.
S. O'BRIEN: How much of this problem is -- and now you're two days into the job -- that there's so much going on? Whether you're talking about Iraq, North Korea, Afghanistan, Iran, that you become another voice in the room saying, Mr. President, and also Sudan; Mr. President, we need to get focused on Sudan. How much of that is what you're experiencing?
NATSIOS: You don't really have to do that in his case. He's very focused on it. I took the job because it's very clear to me, both the secretary of state and the president want this dealt with, and they're willing to take action to deal with it. I'm not -- I didn't take the job to give speeches and do interviews. I did it because I have deep affection for the Sudanese people. I've been going there for 17 years now. I know Sudanese all over the country, Arabs, southerners, westerners, and they've been through terrible suffering. If I can help to deal with that, I'd like to do it.
S. O'BRIEN: Then why is it taking so long? Because I think it was Colin Powell who more than a year ago said the word genocide.
NATSIOS: Actually, three years ago.
S. O'BRIEN: Yes. So genocide. So three years later, we're still debating about the kind of troops getting into Sudan.
NATSIOS: The genocide took place in the fall of -- our fall of late 2003, and the first half of 2004. Then the violence dropped off, mainly because they destroyed almost all the villages of the African tribes that are in revolt, the Masali (ph), the Zigowa (ph) and the Fowr (ph). There weren't many other places to destroy.
And so then there was a relative equilibrium, when the African troops came in the situation stabilized. Was there still violence? Yes, but not on the scale that we saw earlier. Unfortunately, what appears to be happening right now is the government has launched a new offensive, the largest yet since the atrocities were committed in 2003 and '04. And we're afraid there are going to be a lot more people killed now. So part of this is not just getting U.N. troops in. We need a cease-fire. We need the government to withdraw their forces from the area, because this is simply inflaming the situation.
And I might add, Sudan's a big country, and there are other areas -- the Beja people in the east are in revolt and have been. And the southerners are not happy with the way in which the peace agreement is being implemented. So my charge is not just in Darfur, it's for the whole country, and our idea here is to treat this in a unified way as a problem.
S. O'BRIEN: Andrew Natsios with a very big and difficult job ahead. Thanks for talking with us this morning.
NATSIOS: Thank you.
S. O'BRIEN: Appreciate it.
Miles.
(WEATHER REPORT)
M. O'BRIEN: Coming up, another "New You" checkup for you. Today, our friends, the D.C. lobbyists, their politics were miles apart, but they both shared the same resolution, to lose weight, exercise and stay away from the candy jar they had in the office. We'll see how they're doing.
And it's Thursday, so you know what that means.
S. O'BRIEN: Miles-cam day.
M. O'BRIEN: Miles-cam day, thank you, Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: 10:30 Eastern Time.
M. O'BRIEN: Yes, thank you. 10:30 Eastern. E-mail your questions to me now, Milescam@cnn.com. If I don't have the answer, I'll call somebody in the company that does. We'll get right to the bottom of it, one way or another. At 10:30 Eastern. But send those e-mails now. CNN.com/pipeline is the place to see it all.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
M. O'BRIEN: That's the music. You know it is, it's New You Checkup time. We're going to see if our power of pairs worked for lobbyists in the nation's Capitol. S. O'BRIEN: Senior medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta has got our final pair's update. Donna Watts-Brighthaupt and Frank Purcell. Remember them?
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: I do.
S. O'BRIEN: That was for Miles, not for you.
M. O'BRIEN: Of course, I remember them. I remember the smoky treat.
GUPTA: Were you just eating a jelly doughnut? We're doing the New You Checkup. I just...
M. O'BRIEN: Bagel. That's OK. Bagels are better, right?
S. O'BRIEN:: No.
M. O'BRIEN: Yes, we'll talk about that. We'll do your own New You guys. Yes, you know, these two were fascinating. They were sort of far apart politically. But it goes to show, despite the political spectrum that you might be in, which side or the other, losing weight, exercising more, all those sorts of things, avoiding the candy machine sort of mid-afternoon, that doesn't show any favorites, one side or the other. They did well during their eight weeks. Six months out now, let's see how they did.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GUPTA (voice-over): It's been six months since New You ended. Donna and Frank have worked hard to stay the course. Donna's goals: lose weight, eat healthier and increase her exercise. She first weighed 167 pounds. She initially lost 12. Now she's regained four of those pounds.
DONNA WATTS-BRIGHTHAUPT, NEW YOU PARTICIPANT: And how much are clothes?
GUPTA: But she's still happy with her progress.
WATTS-BRIGHTHAUPT: I'm doing good, maintaining, firming up, not losing too much weight, but firming up.
GUPTA: Frank's was to lose 75 pounds, exercise three to five times a week and get his cholesterol under 200. He weighs 230 pounds. He's lost 35 pounds. His cholesterol is still down at 170. And he's still getting his three to five-day workout each week.
FRANK PURCELL, NEW YOU PARTICIPANT: Just trying to stick to good habits each day, good habits with my diet, good habits with exercise.
GUPTA: Neither one works with a personal trainer anymore. Donna goes on a daily run. Only now 13-year-old daughter Brianna runs with her. But she's still working on eating healthier.
WATTS-BRIGHTHAUPT: That's why I'm out here every day, because the eating habits haven't changed to the way I like it.
GUPTA: Frank still bikes. In May, he completed a 150-mile bike ride for multiple sclerosis. Now he's in training for an Army 10-mile run in October.
PURCELL: I feel a lot more energetic and probably in better shape now than I've been since I was a teenager.
GUPTA: And remember the M&M man? Well, he now sits empty atop a bookshelf in Donna's new office. Speaking of old bad habits, although not part of her resolution, Donna was trying to quit smoking and was down to two a day. Now she's back up to three or four, has even turned to a book for help.
WATTS-BRIGHTHAUPT: So many people recommended it, the easy way to quit smoking. I fell asleep with the book on my chest and a cigarette in my hand.
GUPTA: Still, our pair of lobbyists say there's no turning back.
WATTS-BRIGHTHAUPT: I'm so happy where I am. I want to do another five. If not another five, tone up.
GUPTA: I've got a little ways further to go, but I'm a lot happier with my physical condition now.
WATTS-BRIGHTHAUPT: Hopefully those changes are permanent.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GUPTA: Really, it's pretty remarkable actually. Everybody's going to measure Donna's success, and she's going to kill me for saying this, in terms of whether or not she quit smoking, but overall she's done very, very well, as has Frank. The real key, can their changes be permanent. Also you can check out about their blog. They've been blogging, which is fascinating stuff. I've been reading this CNN.com/newyou. It's interesting. Lots of advice there as well.
M. O'BRIEN: Donna's line about falling asleep with a book and a cigarette sums it up. And she -- you know, let's be honest, that was not her goal to quit smoking in all this. A lot of people have the assumption if you quit smoking, you're going to gain weight. I guess there's some truth to that, right?
GUPTA: There is. And there's been a lot of evidence that shows people who try and quit smoking can sometimes swap addictions. We've talked about that before. Also, there's a real component of anxiety that's associated with trying to quit smoking, which is a lot of the meds -- and this isn't always necessary -- but the meds that are sometimes prescribed are actually anti-anxiety meds. So in addition to treating the nicotine dependence, also treating the anxiety. It is not easy. And Donna can talk about that. But a lot of people who are watching have a hard time with this, for sure.
S. O'BRIEN: She's got a 13-year-old daughter. She really needs to... GUPTA: Raising a teenager, for sure. That's true.
S. O'BRIEN: Yes, Sanjay. So what are we talking -- we covered everybody?
GUPTA: We got everybody.
S. O'BRIEN: What's coming on tomorrow?
GUPTA: Tomorrow, you know, the interesting thing for me was actually going back to them and saying, OK, you know, you've been doing this for half a year now, six months, in addition to the two months. What have you learned? what are the real pitfalls and what advice can people really get out of it? We're going to have a best of, if you will, New You pairs tomorrow..
S. O'BRIEN: Oh, good.
M. O'BRIEN: Takeaway. They look good, though.
S. O'BRIEN: They do look good. Good for them, it's nice to see everybody really keeping their commitment.
M. O'BRIEN: Yes, it's been nice to see that.
S. O'BRIEN: All right, Sanjay.
M. O'BRIEN: All right, back to my jelly bagel now.
(CROSSTALK)
M. O'BRIEN: Can we do it this year, please, please, pretty please?
(CROSSTALK)
S. O'BRIEN: We'd be a good pair.
GUPTA: You guys are perfect.
S. O'BRIEN: Miles is.
Coming up this morning, falling price of gas. Good news for drivers. Other businesses have reason to be happy, too. We'll tell you why. That's coming up next on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BUSINESS HEADLINES)
S. O'BRIEN: Well, I've got some interesting things to tell you right now. And it's good news, for a change. We're talking about gas prices. The gas prices are down. Good news for millions of Americans, of course. Could be more good news to come this winter, too. How's everybody celebrating those savings?
CNN's Allan Chernoff takes a look for us.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALLAN CHERNOFF, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): After trying to limit her driving over the summer because of high gas prices, schoolteacher Stephanie Yundi is embracing her passion for shopping.
STEPHANIE YUNDI, TEACHER: Now I can go shopping more and it's much better. You know, I mean, the traveling, going from place to place., It makes you want to get in the car and go somewhere, rather than sit at home and try to save the gas.
CHERNOFF: Saving on gas isn't as important for Americans as it was just a few weeks ago. As pain at the pump has been easing, consumers are feeling more power in the pocketbook. For Maduka Ishibachi (ph), it means her first set of golf clubs.
Dana Sinisi is spending more freely on little items.
DANA SINISI, REAL ESTATE BROKER: Definitely helps, puts a little bit of extra cash in the pocket. More for coffee on the way to work. It's nice to see it closer to the $2 mark than to the $3 mark.
CHERNOFF: Three dollar gas seems like a bad memory, with the average price for nationwide now under $2.50. Some analysts say gas prices should continue dropping as the cost of crude oil retreats. It's enough to make the owner of a gas guzzler smile.
ELAINE MURRAY, HOUSEWIFE: Before, in June, I think it cost me about nearly $85 to fill up this tank. And today it looks like it's only about $64.
CHERNOFF (on camera): A bargain.
MURRAY: Yes. I might be here tomorrow and do it all over again. It felt great.
CHERNOFF: Prices at the pump are down in part because the situation has cooled off in the Middle East, and the hurricane season has done no damage to the oil-rich Gulf of Mexico. But of course, all of that could quickly change.
(voice-over): For now, though, the good news for consumers stands to get even better, because the cost of heating oil and natural gas is dropping, meaning Americans could enjoy big savings on heating their homes this winter.
Allan Chernoff, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
M. O'BRIEN: Coming up, new developments in that deadly E. coli outbreak. Looks like the FDA, the Food and Drug Administration, is going pretty close to zeroing in on the source of the contaminated spinach. We'll tell you about that ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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