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American Morning
Strained Alliance Between U.S. and Pakistan?; Muslim Leaders Invited to Vatican; Tainted Spinach
Aired September 22, 2006 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning to you. I'm Carol Costello, in today for Soledad.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Miles O'Brien.
Thanks for being with us.
We begin at the White House, where two allies in the war on terror are trying to smooth some ruffled feathers. Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf calling on President Bush. Each has made some public remarks in the past few days that could upset their alliance.
CNN's Elaine Quijano at the White House with more -- Elaine.
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Miles.
And those comments you're referring to in an interview with Wolf Blitzer earlier this week, but also recently now reports from CBS's "60 Minutes" about a comment that General Pervez Musharraf, the president of Pakistan, says were made to him in those days after September 11th. Here is what General Pervez Musharraf told "60 Minutes" about what he was told by U.S. officials, saying, "The intelligence director told me that Armitage said, 'Be prepared to go back to the Stone Age.'"
Now, that a reference to, as you recall, those days after September 11th when the United States made very clear that if countries were not with the U.S., they would be against the U.S. White House spokesman Tony Snow saying just a few moments ago, in fact, "You should ask Richard Armitage what he said."
Well, CNN has, in fact, talked to him exclusively this morning. We're awaiting that tape. But essentially, we are told that Richard Armitage says he did not say that, he never threatened to bomb Pakistan, and that he wouldn't say such a thing, that he didn't have the authority to do so.
In fact, that message, Armitage said, that was delivered was that same U.S. policy of countries having to make a decision about whether or not they wanted to join with the United States in fighting terrorism. So, the White House saying today that this meeting with General Musharraf and President Bush will really be an opportunity for the United States to get some questions answered about what General Pervez Musharraf is doing, the conversations that he's been having with tribal leaders, because, of course, Osama bin Laden, five years later, is still on the loose, tremendous pressure on the Bush administration to track him down, bring him to justice.
The White House is saying that, in fact, this meeting today will help to clarify what, in fact, has been said to these tribal leaders, what these tribal leaders -- what information they might have for the United States. A critical, critical meeting, Miles. And we should mention this is essentially also laying the groundwork for a trilateral meeting.
President Bush getting ready to sit down not just with Mr. Musharraf, but also another critical U.S. ally, Afghanistan's President Hamid Karzai, next week on Wednesday. All three will sit down in the Oval Office -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: Elaine Quijano at the White House.
Thanks very much.
After that meeting, the two men will hold a news conference. It's slated for 10:10 Eastern this morning. We'll carry it live -- Carol.
COSTELLO: More than a week after the pope angered Muslims with his remarks about Islam, that anger appears to be growing. He's tried to clarify his comments, and this morning he has invited Muslim ambassadors to meet with him on Monday.
Despite the pope's diplomatic efforts, though, some Islamic groups are calling for a worldwide day of anger which does not appear to have materialized today.
In the meantime, the Vatican has a security concern.
AMERICAN MORNING'S Delia Gallagher is live in Rome to tell us more.
Good morning.
DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN FAITH AND VALUES CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Carol. Here's what's happening at the Vatican.
The Vatican has 175 permanent ambassadors stationed here. The pope has invited those representing majority Muslim countries to come and talk to him on Monday morning, because this debate is still being felt and debated around the world, as you heard, and nowhere more so than here at the Vatican.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GALLAGHER (voice over): The normally peaceful Vatican is on high alert. Adding to that tension, a letter sent by Mehmet Ali Agca, who shot the previous pope, John Paul II, in 1981, to the Italian newspaper "La Republica."
He wrote, "Pope Ratzinger, listen to someone who knows these things very well. Your life is in danger. You absolutely must not come to Turkey."
Ali Agca claims he's been in contact with both Vatican and Western intelligence services, though he offered no evidence. Then he goes on to ask the pope to step down, writing, "For your own welfare you must make a grand gesture of honor and resign. Then you must return to your native land, and in your place an Italian cardinal can be elected pope."
Ali Agca was freed from an Italian prison in 2000 and is now serving time in a prison in Istanbul.
Around the world, some Muslim leaders have accepted the pope's apology, but others remain angry. In Pakistan, this cleric and about 1,000 others demanded his removal.
One of Italy's top Islamic spokesmen is calling for calm. "Let's hope that with dialogue we can manage to overcome this difficult moment to calm down the spirits and quench down the tensions."
Not surprisingly, the faithful visiting St. Peter's Square are supporting their spiritual leader
JOE MARZANO, VISITING FROM ARIZONA: He apologized for what he said, but mostly it sounds to me like it was misinterpreted because the pope don't have a bad bone in his body. You know what I mean? He's so pure and beautiful. So nothing was meant. It's like anything in the world, people misinterpret and translate things the way they want.
GALLAGHER: One Vatican expert agrees.
JOHN ALLEN, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: I really believe he thought that that academic audience would take it into that spirit. And to the be honest, they did. I mean, the people who attended that lecture, you know, didn't think -- didn't walk out thinking, we've just seen a historic, you know, poke in the eye at Islam from the pope. It took, you know, 24 hours for that one phrase lifted out of context to make its way around the world.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GALLAGHER: Despite that letter from Ali Agca, the Vatican says that the pope's scheduled trip to Turkey in November is going ahead as planned for now -- Carol.
COSTELLO: So what else can the Vatican do? I know that the pope will meet with Muslim leaders come Monday, but is there anything else in the works?
GALLAGHER: Well, they've put out a huge diplomatic effort. Of course, they've also dealt with their ambassadors in Muslim countries and asked them to please discuss this amongst the leaders and political leaders in those countries. I think it's interesting, Carol, that on Sunday, last Sunday, the pope went around in an open air pope mobile around St. Peter's Square, with all the people in the square, sort of a display that they will not be intimidated by any threats -- Carol.
COSTELLO: Delia Gallagher reporting live from Rome this morning.
Thanks.
O'BRIEN: Two more deaths may be linked to that fresh spinach tainted with the E. coli bacteria. Two-year-old Kyle Algood from Idaho died at a Utah hospital this week from a kidney disease associated with the E. coli infection. His parents say he had eaten packaged spinach blended into a smoothie.
Here's what health officials are saying this morning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. CHRISTINE HAHN, IDAHO DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH: We're investigating a report that he may have consumed spinach in the days -- fresh spinach in the days prior to becoming ill. So we are investigating to see whether he may be related to this nationwide outbreak related to fresh bagged spinach.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEFF ALGOOD, KYLE'S FATHER: That's what we suspect it is. He ate spinach, what we thought was kind of bad spinach. And so we didn't use anymore after that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have been through all the ranges of emotion, the grief, the sadness, the guilt. Some anger.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: Test results are expected sometime next week to see if this case is connected to the larger E. coli outbreak. And this morning we also have learned that an elderly woman in Maryland has died, possibly of being tainted by the spinach with the E. coli bacteria.
Meanwhile, despite a short list suspected spinach growers, the government still doesn't know the source of the E. coli outbreak. So far, 157 people sickened in 23 states. The FDA still warning you not to eat fresh bagged spinach.
As for the farmers, California spinach growers are planning new food safety measures. They are expected to focus on better water and soil testing and beefed-up sanitation rules for workers in the field and in the processing plants.
COSTELLO: Happening "In America," Baltimore-Washington International Airport trying to get passengers back into their terminals after a scare with a firearm. The firearm was reportedly found in a bag by screeners. It forced the evacuations of two terminals while security searched the airport for that bag's owner.
No word on whether that person was found. Passengers are being re-screened right now.
In Las Cruces, New Mexico, heightened security at the start of an annual festival that draws thousands. Someone has threatened to start randomly shooting people today if a substantial ransom isn't paid. Some business owners offering reward money for any clues leading to an arrest.
In southern California, firefighters are bracing for a long, hard weekend because of the hot, dry Santa Ana winds. They're expected to kick up tomorrow with gusts of up to 65 miles per hour. Today, crews are surrounding are the 1,700-acre Day Fire. That's burning along the Los Angeles-Ventura County border.
Good news for people hard pressed to pay for their prescriptions. Target now saying it will follow Wal-Mart's lead, selling hundreds of generic prescription drugs for as little as $4 per month's supply. So far this is limited to a test run in the Tampa area, but the trend is expected to hit the rest of the nation within a year.
Dangerous thunderstorms moving across the Ohio valley this morning. Storms caused at least seven confirmed tornadoes in central Kansas yesterday. Nobody hurt, but certainly a lot of cleanup today. Homes are damaged, trees are down. And it could be another rough day for the midsection of the country.
Let's bring in severe weather expert Chad Myers to tell us more.
Hey, Chad.
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Good morning, Carol.
(WEATHER REPORT)
MYERS: Back to you.
O'BRIEN: Thank you very much, Chad.
Coming up on the program we're going to talk to one of the world's richest men who is ponying up a lot of future profits in his business to the tune of $3 billion, we're told, to fight global warming. He and the man who was instrumental in getting him to do this, the former vice president, will be with us in just a moment.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Virgin Atlantic billionaire Richard Branson is putting his profits where his concerns are. Branson is pledging future profits from his airline to the tune of perhaps $3 billion -- $3 billion -- that's with a "B," -- to fight global warming. He announced the pledge at the Clinton Global Initiative in New York yesterday, along with former vice president Al Gore, who was instrumental in putting this deal together.
They join us here. Good to have you both with us on the program.
Let's start with you, Mr. Gore, first.
How did you -- you approached him. Wanted to just give him a briefing on global warming. Did you think you would walk away with a pledge like this?
AL GORE, FMR. VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, I hoped that Sir Richard Branson would do what he's known for doing, and that is be bold and imaginative and have an open mind to the reality of our situation. And as I told him at the time, he's in a unique position because people follow him. They pay attention to him. They know that he has a real strong imagination and a great business sense, but he has a heart and a conscience.
And I was hoping that if he really looked, took the time to look at the reality of our situation, that he would find some way to provide leadership. And I'm so -- I'm so proud of what he has done to provide this leadership.
O'BRIEN: Let's talk for a moment about the role of the private sector in all of this. The Bush administration has said repeatedly that the proper way to go about this is not have the government intervene in this, that the private sector will, in fact, take care of this problem of global warming one way or another. Perhaps this is case in point, but listen for a moment to what the president's point man on the environment said to me about a year ago on this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES CONNAUGHTON, WHITE HOUSE CHAIRMAN, COUNCIL ON ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY: The private sector is going to figure out how to do it best in a way the government probably couldn't. And we should enable them to innovate and find those solutions that government is incapable of figuring out faster.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: You're a businessman. Do you agree with that?
SIR RICHARD BRANSON, CHAIRMAN, THE VIRGIN GROUP: I think the private sector can do a lot, but it's not going to stop global warming unless the government can impose -- impose rules and, you know, tax the people that are -- you know, that are misbehaving and encourage people to, you know, develop new sources of energies and give tax breaks and so on. So, it needs to be a partnership and it needs people in government to really believe that we have a calamity on our hands, which we do, and they're going to do something about it.
O'BRIEN: All right. But you're in the airline business, your airline's doing OK. But there are a lot of airlines in trouble right now. If it came to some sort of tax on the airlines in order to fund ways to move out of, you know, carbon-based fuels, do you think that's an appropriate way to go about it? BRANSON: I think what governments need to do is, if you've got a train running alongside a plane, you should tax that airline out of business. You know, people should travel on the train, which is, you know, 10 times more carbon efficient than planes.
O'BRIEN: So you just said tax an airline out of business?
BRANSON: I think what we have to realize is that we have this little bit of atmosphere around our world, and that is very, very thin. And that atmosphere is being choked by C02, and every year more and more C02 is going into it. And in the end it is going to smother us. I mean, we're not -- we're not going to be able to exist.
So, we have a serious calamity on our hands, and we need government and business to get together and make sure we don't lose this beautiful world we have.
O'BRIEN: All right.
He just started -- he just said you tax an airline out of business if you have to. That's political dynamite, isn't it?
GORE: Well...
O'BRIEN: When you start talking about hurting the economy to help global warming -- how do you respond?
GORE: See, I think that's a false choice.
O'BRIEN: You do?
GORE: I think that we're going to help the economy by rising to meet this challenge. And what Richard Branson is doing is investing in the new sources of fuel that do not have the same polluting impact. And when government sets rules here in this country and around the world that puts a price on the real consequences of the choices we make, then the market will help businesses and public policy work in concert to reduce this pollution.
The essence of this is, every day, today, in fact, we're putting 70 million tons of this global warming pollution in this thin shell of atmosphere. The planet has a fever.
If your child has a fever you go to the doctor. It may be a sign that something is wrong. We've gone to the scientific community and they have said, yes, this -- the planet has a fever, it's in trouble, we have to turn the thermostat down by reducing the global warming pollution.
O'BRIEN: But when you start talking about doing that, you're talking about the lubrication of all of our economies, you're talking about oil. What do you do?
BRANSON: Well, what we've -- what we've ideally got to do is find an alternative fuel. There are alternative fuels out there. I mean, you've got ethanol. Ethanol is a good fuel. O'BRIEN: Can you fly a jumbo jet on ethanol, you think?
BRANSON: No, but it's -- sorry -- then you've got cellulose ethanol, which is being developed at the moment which will be able to use the waste product in our fields, the waste product from our homes, and you'll be able to replace 100 percent of conventional fuel, except for planes, with cellulose ethanol. And then you've got planes, and I think a derivative of (INAUDIBLE) hopefully can be developed for jet engines.
All -- these are the kinds of areas that Virgin are going to invest in. I mean, I think -- I mean, I agree with, with Al Gore that, you know, you've got to try to keep business, you know, going whilst we are doing this, but that there are some situations which are mad. I mean, if somebody has a choice between a train and a plane on a shorter route they should take the train. Choices like that we've got to try to encourage people to do.
O'BRIEN: What is the window of opportunity we have here to do anything about this? I have heard recent talks by some researches say 10 years, no more. At that point it might be too late to do anything at all.
Would you go along with that? Is that...
GORE: Well, the scientists I most respect are now saying that we may well have as little as 10 years, not 10 years in which we have to do everything, but 10 years in which we have to make a big, credible start to reduce the rate of increase, then reduce the amount of global warming pollution. And, you know, on these fuels, somebody said a long time ago the Stone Age didn't end because of a shortage of stones, and the fossil fuel age is not going to end because of peak oil. It's going to end when we move on to something better and more efficient, less polluting, and better for business because it's cheaper and better.
O'BRIEN: Yes, but it's much easier said than done when you are talking about the infrastructure that we have.
GORE: Well, getting over the inertia is exactly why we need the kind of bold leadership and vision that Sir Richard Branson has demonstrated here.
BRANSON: And you also need -- you do need governments for that bold vision, as well. I mean, you know, if -- if -- you know, let's just say we're wrong. And let's say there's the possibility we're right. If there's a tipping point, and that tipping point could take place in the next five or 10 years, and once you've gone beyond that tipping point the world is doomed, you can't actually get -- get back from that tipping point, if the scientists are right and there is this tipping point looming, the governments should be convening now and taking it a great deal more seriously than they are.
O'BRIEN: It's difficult for politicians who are operating on short time frames -- we have a midterm election coming up -- I want to ask you briefly about that -- to think about something in this long term. It's a very difficult problem to get your hands around.
BRANSON: Well, let's just look at it another way very quickly. I mean, you know, America is -- you know, if we just talk about America alone, they are dependent on the Middle East for oil. You know, they shouldn't be.
They're farmers, they get subsidized. They needn't subsidize their farmers. You know, let's use that fuel to make -- to make fuel. You know, their farms to make fuel rather than subsidies. There are a lot of good economic reasons to -- to move away from fossil fuels as well.
O'BRIEN: All right.
A quick thought from you on the midterm elections coming up. Oil prices going down, president's numbers going up.
BRANSON: That's a coincidence.
O'BRIEN: Interesting.
Do you -- do you see a repeat of 2002, 2004 here?
GORE: I don't know. I think that -- well, first of all, I think that OPEC signaled very clearly that they were going to try to bring oil prices down before the election because they've always kept an eye on the development of political will to come up with subsidies for oil. Whenever they think we're close to saying we're fed up, we're going to stop being so dependent on Middle East oil, then they say, oh, let's -- let's ease back a little bit. And I think that's happening right now.
My guess is that for a variety of reasons voters in both parties want change in the United States. Of course, I'm a Democrat, I'm hoping that's the case. But you know, we as a nation and we as a world have to get beyond that short-term horizon you were mentioning.
Networks look at sweeps week. Politicians look at overnight polls. Too many corporate managers look at quarterly reports.
We have a full-scale planetary emergency on our hands. All future generations depend upon us deciding that we're not going to be the selfish, self-destructive generation, but instead the next greatest generation by saving the habitability of this planet. And we have everything we need to get started with it, save, perhaps, political will. But in America that's a renewable resource.
O'BRIEN: All right, gentlemen. Thank you very much.
Al Gore, Sir Richard Branson, thanks for being with us this morning.
GORE: Thank you.
O'BRIEN: Top stories are straight ahead, including defiance in the Middle East. We'll get a live report on a massive rally going on right now.
And the pope extending another olive branch to Muslims, but will it be enough to end the outrage over his comments on Islam?
All that ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: And good morning to you. I'm Carol Costello, in today for Soledad.
O'BRIEN: And I'm Miles O'Brien.
Thanks for being with us.
COSTELLO: The pope is again reaching out to Muslims offended by his remarks about Islam. Today -- or Monday, rather, he will meet with ambassadors from predominantly Muslim countries. But will Monday's meeting fix things?
Ingrid Mattson is the newly-elected president of the Islamic Society of North America. She joins us now live from Hartford, Connecticut.
Good morning to you.
INGRID MATTSON, PRESIDENT, ISLAMIC SOCIETY OF NORTH AMERICA: Good morning, Carol.
COSTELLO: Thanks for joining us.
MATTSON: You're welcome.
COSTELLO: So you think this is getting a little overblown now, or do you think this is a really serious matter?
MATTSON: I don't think it's getting overblown, although I do believe that some people's reactions are inappropriate. But the fact that the pope is -- has not only apologized, but is taking steps now to meet with Muslim leaders to engage in a further discussion shows that he's serious about his apology. And this is what we want.
We want to have a meaningful engagement, not just an apology that is along the lines of, "I'm sorry if you were hurt by what I said," but a real effort to try to engage in dialogue and conversation about what was the substance of that speech and what really did it signify to Muslims around the world?
COSTELLO: You know, though, to many Americans, this does seem to be overblown. And everything that is said that is even the least bit insensitive about Islam is taken so seriously that it causes violence.
MATTSON: Well, I read the speech. I read the seven-page speech, and it was very provocative, because he not only spoke in a negative manner or quoted a quotation, citation about the Prophet Mohammed that was very offensive, but, in fact, he was giving a kind of political framework for Europe, indicating that he's concerned that Europe is losing its Christian identity, and that somehow Muslims might not quite belong in -- in European society as it should historically be structured, according to his views.
That's -- that's a very disturbing idea, because Muslim minorities in Europe are already under a very difficult circumstances. Many of them are discriminated against. In Germany there are skinhead groups that routinely act out violently against Muslim minorities there. So...
COSTELLO: And I guess other minorities, as well.
MATTSON: Yes.
COSTELLO: Let me ask you this. The man who tried to kill Pope John Paul II said that if the pope, Pope Benedict, come to Turkey, as he's expected to do, that he'll be killed. Do you think that's a real possibility?
MATTSON: Well, it would -- I mean, I think the Turkish authorities would have more knowledge of that than even that man. I'm sure he's -- he's said many bizarre statements before, obviously, and I'm suspicious that he would really have his pulse on the finger of whatever threat there might be in Turkey. I would leave that to the Turkish authorities.
COSTELLO: We can't confirm what he is saying is true, but there was a Catholic nun killed in Somalia, supposedly over these comments, so many Catholics throughout the world are thinking, there could be a real danger to Pope Benedict because of these comments that he made.
MATTSON: There's always a danger to world leaders and to prominent leaders. In this context, of course, security would have to be stepped up. We still don't know really what happened in Somalia. Somalia is a place that is in chaos. People are killed there routinely, every day, because the government isn't stable. So, still we have to be a little bit careful about...
COSTELLO: Well, still, churches were burned in the West Bank, and every time these incidents happen after some remark that many do find insensitive, that sort of turns the tide even more against Islam, doesn't it?
MATTSON: Well, I think we have to put the reactions in context, that the few violent reactions were much more outweighed by the peaceful reactions. If you look at the Palestinians, the Palestinian leadership stepped up and provided increasing protection for those places of worship and for Christians. After all, Christians are part of Palestinian society. Every society has vigilantes. And when you are in a place in which the government has minimal control in any case these things will get out of hand.
COSTELLO: I think people understand that, but I think they want a stronger condemnation of these things from moderates. And they don't feel they're getting that, and they wonder why. MATTSON: Well, certainly they're there. The condemnations are there. The question is, where do you have to go to find them? I can tell you, on behalf of Muslims in North America, that we condemn any act of violence against any church, any clergy or any innocent person. Vigilantism is not allowed in Islam, and I can say that very clearly. Now CNN has given me a forum so I can say that.
But those condemnations are there. You'll find them on the Web sites and the bulletins of Muslim organizations and leaders. But that's not the kind of thing that gets the TV cameras. Fires and violence get the attention of the media, because that's news.
COSTELLO: Ingrid Mattson, president of the Islamic Society of North America. Thank you for joining us this morning.
MATTSON: Thank you for the invitation.
COSTELLO: I want to show you some live pictures coming to us from Beirut, Lebanon, in the midst there of a rather large victory rally, as it is being called by Hezbollah. It's happening in the southern portion of Beirut, the section which is historically a Hezbollah stronghold, and which was the target of many Israeli bombs in the conflict between Hezbollah and Israel, which began on July 12th, you'll recall, when three Israeli soldiers were killed and two others kidnapped on the northern border with Lebanon. Cease-fire occurred on August 14th and is still holding. The toll in all of this was more than 1,000 Lebanese killed, 4,000 wounded on the Israeli side, 45 civilians, 118 soldiers killed, more than 1,000 wounded. Once again, Hezbollah holding a victory rally, really expected to be attended by the leader of Hezbollah, Hassan Nasrallah, who first went into hiding as this all began on July 12th. This would be his first public appearance.
Somewhere in the midst of that crowd is our Brent Sadler, and we'll try to get in touch him, keep you posted on the rally occurring right now in Beirut as the day goes on.
It is cleanup today -- day today in Kansas, many parts of Kansas. Storms caused at least seven tornadoes in central Kansas yesterday. No one injured, but roofs are torn off and trees are toppled. Two tornadoes reported in Louisiana as well last night. Police there also say no serious injuries. Mostly damage to some homes, mobile homes and vehicles. And it is that time of year.
(WEATHER REPORT)
O'BRIEN: Let's go back to those live pictures now coming to us from Beirut. This is the southern part of that city, the yellow flag of Hezbollah. With a few of the flags of the country of Lebanon interspersed, it's being called a victory rally over the conflict with Israel, which began on July 12th. Brent Sadler on the line with us now.
Brent, what can you tell us?
BRENT SADLER, CNN BEIRUT BUREAU CHIEF: Good morning, Miles. The gathering here of a massive rally, a so-called victory rally that's been called for, organized by Hezbollah. The big unanswered question so far is whether or not Hezbollah's chief, Hassan Nasrallah, who went into hiding July 12th will, show up at this gathering, and many officials say that he will, maybe not for too long, because he's still at risk, claim Hezbollah, from Israeli retaliation in terms of a targeted assassination attempt against him. Israel hasn't ruled that in or out.
But what we are seeing here, in the southern suburbs, districts of which were flattened by Israel's bombing, is an attempt by Hezbollah on the local scene here in Lebanon to portray itself as the most dominant political party in this country, but it remains, in effect , state within a state, that is still well funded by Iran, but is obviously well organized, capable of gathering such a large crowd in a relatively short space of time in the southern suburbs of Beirut, and to show regionally, as well as internationally, that Hezbollah's alliance with Iran and Syria is sustained and is a strong alliance -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: Brent, do you have any sense -- just looking at these pictures, it looks like tremendous numbers. Have you been able to get a sense on the numbers?
SADLER: Well, Hezbollah is expecting at least half a million. That was the largest turnout they had during the so-called Cedar Revolution, pro-democracy marches last year. So if they topped a half a million -- and difficult to say how many are here at the moment. I can tell you the crowd is pushed very tightly together in the main arena, where the expected speeches will take place, either by Nasrallah in person or by prerecorded tapes. But certainly the street districts around this (INAUDIBLE) area crushed with people, really a struggle to get through. And people are -- some people have spent the best part of the last 24 hours walking by foot from their bombed villages in South Lebanon as a further show of defiance against Israel and its support from America. So both locally, this is seen as an important test of supporters, and seen internationally, whether or not this will reveal Hassan Nasrallah the first time in more than two months.
O'BRIEN: All right. And I believe we're seeing him right there, I believe it is Hassan Nasrallah making his way to the podium, Brent. Let's talk about this cease-fire. August 14th was the date of the cease-fire. At the time, when we were first talking about it, we consistently called it fragile. There was not a lot of optimism that it would hold, and yet it has. Why?
SADLER: Well, as you say, Nasrallah himself emerging into this packed arena to the sound of firecrackers, I can hear. Obviously people going wild in the crowds here. In terms of that cease-fire, it does continue to hold. The central government is effectively under attack by Hezbollah and its pro-Syrian allies to replace the current pro-democracy government with a more Iranian-Syrian unity government. The cease-fire in the south holds even at the same time as more international forces are getting a grips on the ground. It was expected a few days ago, that Israel might have completed its withdrawal from South Lebanon. There are still Israeli troops in the south yet to deploy southwards into Israel. But that has been put off for yet more days, according to Israeli officials, so as not, it would seem, to give Hezbollah more ammunition to claim its victory over Israel in that July-August war.
But the test really is yet to come, Miles. What happens when the international forces, in support of the Lebanese army, what they're able to do to stabilize that border area, and more importantly, what eventually happens to Hezbollah's arms. Hezbollah fighters claim Nasrallah still on the border with Israel, their weapons invisible. But in effect, Hezbollah still armed, and as far as Israel is concerned, still dangerous -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: And it will be very interesting to hear the tone of Nasrallah's speech. Tell us a little bit about what we know about him and where his -- where he has been potentially during all this time. Any speculation on where he was hiding out?
SADLER: No speculation. He did appear in several Arabic TV interviews. You know, he is a familiar figure in Damascus -- that's normally publicly. In previous times, there was some speculation that he might have gone overseas during that conflict. But by most accounts, it's expected really that Nasrallah would have stayed very close to the action.
He is the commanding chief of Hezbollah's forces. He is the political inspiration for this movement. He's been elevating himself by his supporters to almost cult status in many parts of the Middle East. And this speech, which is expected to obviously claim victory against Israel in that (INAUDIBLE) conflict -- it's going to be interesting to see what he has to say about Lebanese unity, about the future of Hezbollah's weapons -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: I guess what this -- one thing this does point out, and we've been pointing it out all along since this all began -- is how much Hezbollah really operates a state within a state there, and can have a rally like this with -- really with great freedom and impunity in Lebanon.
SADLER: That's right. You also see here on the streets, around the southern suburbs, a heavy deployment of the Lebanese army. I've seen heavy machine guns, I've seen large numbers of Lebanese soldiers protecting the entire southern suburbs area. Obviously, with such a large amount of people out at one place, that poses potential problems in all sorts of arenas.
But essentially, what you're seeing here is a mass rally that's attended by not only Hezbollah supporters, but also other prominent Shia political parties here in Lebanon, as well as others. There are supporters of the Christian political bloc here, the Free Patriotic Movement, led by Michel Aoun, a former general. He does have, if you like, some degree of cross-professional support here.
But predominantly, this is a show of Shia political power here in Lebanon, and it does come at a time when Hezbollah, let's not forget, has been spending tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars on reconstruction support for those who lost their homes not only here in the southern suburbs of Beirut, but also in south Lebanon.
Hezbollah has been handing out cash payments to people to rebuild and refurnish their homes, continuing to do states-like activities at a time when the Lebanese government is itself trying to show its ability to function as an effective state, both security-wise by deploying the army south of Lebanon, and the in security here in Beirut itself.
The fact that they -- these are competing political forces, and there's no doubt about it, this is a very powerful turnout here in the southern suburbs today -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: You know, it's interesting, when you look at the origins of Hezbollah, it goes back to the early '80s and the Israeli occupation of southern Lebanon. By the way, they have been reading from the Quran there, and we're waiting to see if Hassan Nasrallah actually addresses the crowd.
Hezbollah was born of the Israeli occupation of the early '80s. And I suppose you could make a case, Brent, that they were strengthened by this most recent conflict with Israel. Would you go along with that?
SADLER: Yes and no. There are many who would say that Hezbollah's position has been made much stronger in terms of its -- as formers of the resistance movement. That it was able to if not effectively defeat but to actually block, they claim, Israel's military machine.
But also, on the other hand, you know, the cost of rebuilding Lebanon, which runs into billion of dollars, the damage that this has done, the war, to Lebanon's reputation after 15 years of rebuilding after the last civil war here -- that there are many people, particularly some secular Shia here in this country, who do not feel that Hezbollah has reason enough to claim such a victory. Because if you calculate the cost of Lebanon, in terms of death and destruction, it is, indeed, immense and it will take many years to recover.
Yes, Hezbollah is still active. Yes, Hezbollah is still funded. Yes, Hezbollah still has organizational and institutional activity, and it's still armed. Its weapons may not be not be visible in the south, but its fighters are there, claims Nasrallah, close to the border with Israel.
And still no word yet about what the fate of those two Israeli soldiers captured July the 12th will be in all this. But certainly Hezbollah, as you said, emerged in the early 80s, nearly 25 years, really, in the sense of many Lebanese observers here, showing itself it is not only a strong political force, but a resistance force that can garner a lot of support in the Middle East for those who oppose Israel's policies backed up by the United States -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: Brent Sadler on the line in the midst of that -- what is being called a victory rally in the southern suburbs of Beirut. The flags of Hezbollah flying. Hassan Nasrallah anticipated to address the crowd shortly. We're watching it for you. As soon as we get more from that so-called victory rally, we'll bring it to you, of course.
We'll be back with more in a moment, including a look inside what it's like to be a rock star. The Police in the late 80s. They were the bomb. And you were going to see what it was like, coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: Some the stories people are checking out on CNN.com, President Bush getting strong support from one of his biggest critics, Democratic representative Charlie Rangel, ripping into Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez over his "devil" remarks, saying you don't come into my country and condemn my president.
And everyone on the Forbes list of 400 richest Americans this year is a billionaire. Top of the heap as usual, Bill Gates, with $53 billion. He's led the list 13 years in a row.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're back, and we have the combination! Watch it!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: Get ready to use the schwartz (ph). "Spaceballs" is coming to TV. Mel Brooks is making an animated series from the 1987 movie. It will have all the movie spoofs and Brooks will voice some of the characters. It's due out in the fall of next year.
(NEWSBREAK)
COSTELLO: Coming up at the top of the hour, President Bush with Pakistan's President Musharraf. See their news conference live from the White House.
And Target keeping up with the Jones. It matches Wal-Mart's big price cut on generic prescription drugs. Much more on AMERICAN MORNING, right after this.
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M. O'BRIEN: Let's face it, everyone wants to be a rock star at one time or another in their lives. Stewart Copeland has lived it. He was the drummer and cofounder of The Police. When the band started clicking in the late '70s, he started carrying around a super-8 film camera. Now, 20 years later, after the Police started, he is out with a fascinating, first-person look with a life on the road, on the rock 'n' roll road, that is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Currently No. 1 in the United States, the police are being hailed as the world's most popular band.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Grammy Award-winning trio had a capacity crowd on its feet for almost two hours. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: By 4:00, it was clear, that this concert was going to break all records.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hottest band in the world.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Police.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Police.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Police.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
M. O'BRIEN: The film is called "Everybody Stares: The Police Inside Out."
And Stewart Copeland joins us now. Good to have you with us.
STEWART COPELAND, FOUNDER, "THE POLICE": Well, thank you very much.
M. O'BRIEN: The clip doesn't do so much justice because that showed how the rest of the world was viewing it. Most of it is very gritty, it's high 8, it's really home movies of a rock band having an extraordinary experience. And you see -- there's Sting and you're kind of in the car, and your brothers are with you, and you're care rug your own luggage, and you're in cheesy motels. A lot of people don't know -- they just assume that the life of a rock star is this incredible, you know, glamorous thing. Not so.
COPELAND: It is.
M. O'BRIEN: Oh, it is? But before.
COPELAND: It is quite glamorous, but it loses its luster after a while, from the inside, and it eventually starts to feel kind of threatening to have the mob frenzy coming at you. And one thing that I'd forgotten was we were a teeny-bopper band. We were actually a boy band. And so people who have respect for your music, they say, dude, love your music, but that teeny-bopper thing, which is the 16-year- old, frenzied female shriek, that makes that sound that piranha fish would make if they could make a sound, is actually a little threatening.
M. O'BRIEN: Yes, there's a scene where you get in a car and they're just pressing down on you and their flapping.
COPELAND: Their face is against the glass.
M. O'BRIEN: And the car goes and they're flapping against the car. And you say you get used to that sound of the flesh hitting the car.
COPELAND: Well, it's kind of a cheerful sound, actually. You begin to appreciate the sound of fans flapping against the car.
M. O'BRIEN: The other thing you get, you almost get a sense of claustrophobia on it. You talk about being sealed up in your box, your wonderful suites, your cocoon, and your handlers really don't want you to leave that, because, you know, you've got the same problem we've been talking about.
COPELAND: It's true.
M. O'BRIEN: What's it like living in that?
COPELAND: Well, I mean, you become trained the to be a stuffed pillow. Any independent thoughts, such as, I want a newspaper or...
M. O'BRIEN: Forget about it.
COPELAND: Or what's that over there? They soon realize, get him a newspaper quick, shut him up. Just stay in your seat, don't think, don't do anything; don't even breathe. And that's because they don't want a complication. They don't want to lose the artist, because, oh no, we've got a show to play. There's going to be 80,000 people, that we want our artist safely in a box until showtime.
M. O'BRIEN: How do the other guys feel about the movie?
COPELAND: Andy Summers loves it, the guitarists in the and. Sting has been very supportive. He claims not to have seen it, but he tells me that his kids say that he looks cool in it, and he's been very supportive.
M. O'BRIEN: And how are your relations these days? Any talk of a reunion maybe one day?
COPELAND: No talk of a reunion. But we get along great. Probably we get along so great because we're not talking about the reunion.
M. O'BRIEN: All right. Stewart Copeland, thanks very much.
Do you mind if I do it once?
COPELAND: Sure.
M. O'BRIEN: Roxanne, you don't have to put on the red light!
I got to go.
"Everybody Stares: The Police Inside Out." The DVD is in stores right now. Stewart Copeland, thanks for dropping by.
Am I in the band now?
COPELAND: Sure, you're hired.
M. O'BRIEN: I'm a rock star. Thanks a lot.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
M. O'BRIEN: I thought we were going to cut that out. I thought we were going to cut that out.
COSTELLO: That was so wrong. That was so wrong.
O'BRIEN: I can't believe they left that in.
COSTELLO: I can never listen to that song anymore.
O'BRIEN: Yes, I've ruined it.
The funny thing is, he said, when I did that, he said, you know, everybody does that.
ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Yes, he looked at you and kind of grimaced.
O'BRIEN: There's that old "Saturday Night Live" skit on that. I think Eddie Murphy did that to Sting years ago on an elevator.
COSTELLO: Oh, that was funny.
O'BRIEN: "Everyone Stares" was -- I'm not quitting my day job, folks, don't worry -- "Everyone Stares" was the third best-selling music DVD in the U.S., in the week ending September 17th, according to Nielsen Soundscan, whatever that is. That's a group that tracks that stuff.
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O'BRIEN: That is all from us.
COSTELLO: It is, Indeed.
So while Miles eats, I will throw it to Atlanta to Heidi and Tony.
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