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Your World Today

Television Show in Iraq Breaking New Ground; Interview with Sudanese Ambassador to U.N.; Revealing Secrets About The "Mona Lisa"

Aired September 27, 2006 - 12:15   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

RALITSA VASSILEVA, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Welcome back.
Turning now to South Africa, where Archbishop Desmond Tutu says his nation is losing its moral compass and perverting freedoms it has gained since the fall of apartheid. The Nobel Prize winner spoke late Tuesday at a memorial for murdered freedom fighter Stephen Biko.

Tutu says South Africa has failed to sustain the idealism that ended apartheid.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARCHBISHOP DESMOND TUTU, NOBEL PRIZE LAUREATE: Part of our own disillusionment is the high expectations that we have. You know, we imagine that of course (ph) we had this noble cause, and that during that cause, most people, the vast majority of people, were altruistic, were idealistic. And we thought we were waiting to translate that and transfer it automatically to the time when we were then free.

It's not happened.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VASSILEVA: Well, Tutu also called on former deputy president Jacob Zuma not to run for president because of his "moral failings." Zuma was recently acquitted of rape and fraud, but admitted having unprotected sex with an HIV positive woman.

JIM CLANCY, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: It will be interesting to see what the reaction is in South Africa with those strong comments coming from somebody like Bishop Tutu.

VASSILEVA: Absolutely.

CLANCY: Let's check some of the other stories that are making news this hour.

VASSILEVA: Yes.

We will begin with former U.S. president Bill Clinton turning on the charm at the annual Labour Party conference. He told the divided party of outgoing prime minister Tony Blair, take stock of your gains over the past decade and stick together, or risk having it all washed away in the next election.

CLANCY: California's governor about to sign the country's first universal cap on greenhouse emissions into law. Arnold Schwarzenegger describes it as the state's first step in the fight against global warming. The Republican says he'll also go after tighter restrictions on industry and promote renewable energy sources.

VASSILEVA: An Israeli air strike in Gaza killed a teenage girl and injured three other people. Israel says the building was used as a cover for a weapons-smuggling tunnel. Palestinian sources say before the strike the Israeli army called the residents of the building and asked them to leave.

Now turning now to our top story, the situation in Iraq. A new poll shows that an overwhelming number of Iraqis want American troops to leave now.

CLANCY: Security in Iraq of course front and center on the minds of most people, whether you are in Baghdad...

VASSILEVA: Absolutely.

CLANCY: ... Baquba or down all the way in Basra in the south.

Nic Robertson is there. He has an interesting perspective to share with us.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Fa'eq al-Aqabi cares about how he looks, even if he can't go outside. Ranked Iraq's most popular TV presenter, he's now so afraid of being killed he never leaves Al-Iraqiya, the state broadcaster's studios.

FA'EQ AL-AQABI, TV PRESENTER (through translator): We get threats almost every day on our instant message, indirect talk, and on our personal cell phones. But as long as it is up to us, we will continue this journey that we started.

ROBERTSON: It's a journey that's breaking new ground, a TV show called "Let's Chat," where Iraq's new politicians are challenged by the public.

AL-AQABI (through translator): In the past, there were many headlines. You could not speak or criticize officials. Now we criticize the president, the prime minister, parliament, and ministers. Anyone we have to criticize, we do live.

ROBERTSON: This day, the show's all about security, or lack of it. Aqabi grills the government spokesman on security, and about the militias.

"I don't understand," says a female caller, "who the militia is. They are on the street outside my house. And why does the imam at my local mosque call worshippers to jihad, not to prayer, as he should?"

The ticker that relays viewer questions flickers with an influx of queries about terrorism and how it's a caused by militias or Arabs coming to Iraq. AKRAM HASSAN ABBAS, PROGRAM DIRECTOR (through translator): We can now do this because we have elected these people and gave them their positions to move us forward to safety. Hopefully, this is the new Iraq and new Iraqi people. But terrorism is trying to stop progress here.

ROBERTSON: More than 20 employees at Al-Iraqiya have been killed in the past few years. Abbas is so worried about his security, he packs more weapons than an average soldier when he leaves the studios, but admits to shedding a tear over his countrymen's plight.

(on camera): Even when the show goes off the air, the station continues to collect the viewer e-mails and phone-in questions and takes them to government ministers to get answers.

ABBAS (through translator): The prime minister is really happy about this because he lives the reality of the people. Terrorism stops him from doing his job. He is a normal person. He wants to serve.

ROBERTSON (voice over): Aqabi and Abbas are staking their lives on making Iraq's democracy work. If the politicians can't reach the people, they are making sure the people can reach their leaders.

Nic Robertson, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VASSILEVA: Well, this story certainly reminds us that amid all the debate over intelligence, the right strategy for Iraq, the human cost that is sometimes lost.

CLANCY: And not lost on the Iraqi people. A number of Iraqi civilian casualties, you know, in sheer numbers, it's hard to tell what's accurate and what isn't. There's a Web site that does track it, though. It uses journalists' accounts. It's called iraqbodycount.org.

About 43,000 Iraqi civilians have been killed in the conflict, according to that source.

VASSILEVA: And as for the U.S. toll, more than 2,700 military personnel have been killed so far.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: Hi, everybody. I'm Heidi Collins at the CNN Center in Atlanta.

More of YOUR WORLD TODAY in just a few minutes. But first, a check on stories making headlines in the U.S. now.

We have been following a story all morning out of Dallas on one of its star football players. Several media outlets reporting Terrell Owens tried to commit suicide last night. He was rushed to the hospital after reportedly overdosing on pain medication.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LT. RICK WATSON, DALLAS POLICE: When the officers got there, they were met by the paramedics who were treating Mr. Owens. The paramedics told the officers that they were going to have to proceed to the hospital. The officers followed with the ambulance, and they went in.

And in the course of this, in our investigation, we determined that at this time, that this is not a criminal offense. This is a medical-type of situation in the incident that occurred.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: And the all-clear sounds at a federal courthouse in Washington. The building was evacuated about three hours ago due to a suspicious package. A guard on patrol spotted it near the main door on Constitution Avenue. A bomb-sniffing dog then indicated something was wrong. Still no word on what the package contained.

An architect of the war in Iraq speaks out on parts of an intelligence report made public now. That document concludes the Iraq war has helped fuel global terrorism, a position that's ignited partisan debate.

Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld says Americans can read the excerpts and decide for themselves.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: I don't know that I can add anything to what the president of the United States has said and what the director of National Intelligence, John Negroponte, has said. Apparently, some portions of it, of the national intelligence estimate, were leaked. And I understand that the president's made the decision to declassify a number of the key judgments so that the American people and the world will be able to see the truth and precisely what that particular document says.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: And this weekend, Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, why he says the war is not a mistake. It's an exclusive interview. Candid comments. "Rumsfeld: Man of War," CNN Saturday and Sunday evening at 8:00 Eastern.

Hashing out differences over dinner. President Bush sits down this evening with the presidents of Afghanistan and Pakistan, allies in the war on terror.

The two leaders have been trading jabs for months now. Each criticizes the other's effort to crack down on terrorists along their borders. Afghanistan is facing a resurgence in Taliban violence.

For complete coverage of that meeting, watch "THE SITUATION ROOM" with Wolf Blitzer, beginning at 7:00 Eastern. We do expect to hear from the three leaders around 7:50, and the president around 7:20, prior to that.

Coming up this afternoon in the "NEWSROOM," talking trans fats. How much do you eat? And just how bad are they for you? Some big cities want to ban them in restaurants altogether.

So we want to hear from you. You can e-mail us. Do you think government should place -- police, that is, how much trans fat you eat.

Go ahead and mail that to cnnnewsroom@cnn.com.

Don Lemon, Carol Lin will read some of you responses in the "NEWSROOM."

YOUR WORLD TODAY continues after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CLANCY: Hello, everyone, and welcome back to YOUR WORLD TODAY. I'm Jim Clancy.

VASSILEVA: I'm Ralitsa Vassileva. Here are some of the top stories we're following today.

Archbishop Demond Tutu warns South Africa is losing its moral bearings. The Nobel Prize says his nation has failed to sustain the idealism that ended apartheid. Tutu argues South Africans have lost their reverence for life and perverted their freedom. The archbishop made the fiery remarks at a memorial of murdered freedom fight Steven Biko.

CLANCY: U.S. President George W. Bush inviting the presidents of Afghanistan and Pakistan to dinner at the White House. All of it an effort to find ways to ease tensions between these two key allies in the war on terror. Afghan President Hamid Karzai and Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf have been blaming each other for the resurgence of the Taliban in Afghanistan.

VASSILEVA: A U.S. military commander in Iraq says there's been a rise in insurgency there over the past two weeks. He says suicide attacks at the capital city have been at their highest level of any given week.

Elsewhere in Iraq, in Baquba, a U.S.-led raid resulted in the deaths of eight people. U.S. officials say four suspected terrorists and four female civilians were killed in that operation.

CLANCY: The U.S. secretary of state is calling for an immediate ceasefire in Sudan's war-torn Darfur region. Condoleezza Rice also urging Sudan to allow a United Nations peacekeeping force, already approved, into the area.

Elise Labott joins us now with more -- Elise. ELISE LABOTT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Jim, well this is certainly the most longest and the most comprehensive address of any U.S. official on the issue of Darfur. And what Secretary of State Rice's aides say, it is really a big push by the U.S. to resolve this tragedy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CONDOLEEZZA RICE, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: This tragedy can and must be averted. And President Bush is personally committed to this goal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LABOTT: Well, what Secretary Rice said is that although the humanitarian controversy in Darfur is just terrible, and there is a big need to get that U.N. force that you mentioned in and protect the people of Darfur, this is really a political issue that -- and you need to address the root causes. Because Sudan has been at war for 40 years in various places of the country. The war between the north and south killed over a million people. You have Darfur and other regions in the country that are starting to show violence.

And so, as Secretary Rice, said the United States would not only be pushing for that U.N. force to protect the people, but also the new envoy of Sudan by the U.S. President Bush appointed Andrew Natsios, the former U.S. administrator, to USAID. Will be going out to Khartoum, trying to push not only the government but the rebel groups to sign on to a peace agreement so that the country can deal with those political root causes of power sharing that can finally see some resolution for the people in Darfur -- Jim.

CLANCY: Elise, any mention of the word compromise? You know, Sudan's officials have said there's room here for compromise. It might mean leaving the African Union force in place, increasing it, letting the U.N. arm it and fund it. But would that kind of compromise really satisfy Washington?

LABOTT: Well, certainly that's what we're hearing behind the scenes. Secretary Rice did not say anything about that. There are a lot of movements right now by the United States and the international community try and beef up this African Union force with the logistics, with equipment, so that certainly until the government admits the force that they can still protect the people of Darfur. Right now it doesn't have any money and any equipment and those troops really need help.

But what Secretary Rice said was that that force has to be admitted. And if not, that the government is going to pay the price. We're hearing that there are a lot of tough measures being considered. But Secretary Rice also made a nod to the rebels and said you need to sign onto this peace agreement. And if you don't, you, in fact -- these rebel groups -- could also see targeted sanctions -- Jim.

CLANCY: All right. Elise Labott, reporting to us there from Washington. Thank you. VASSILEVA: Well, for Sudan's perspective on what's happening in Darfur and what we just heard from the U.S. State Department, we are joined by Abdalmahmood Abdalhaleem. He is the Sudanese ambassador to the United Nations.

Thank you so much for joining us, Mr. Ambassador.

So what is Sudan's reaction to what we just heard? The U.S. secretary of state calling for Sudan to accept, to allow, a U.N. peacekeeping force into Darfur?

ABDALMAHMOOD ABDALHALEEM, SUDANESE AMBASSADOR TO THE U.N.: Yes. Mrs. Rice should understand that the language of warnings and pressure will not work at all. And if she has anything to improve the situation in Darfur, she should do it in cooperation and in coordination, as well as in dialogue with the Sudan government. But this, in our opinion, is one -- just a continuation of the American pressures, which will not only worsen the situation in Darfur but will create also serious implications to the security (INAUDIBLE) in the region itself.

VASSILEVA: This is -- Mr. Ambassador, this is not just the U.S. position. The U.S. has been very vocal on it. But this is in general the position of the United Nations. They see the U.N. force going in there and really stopping those atrocities. Maybe they will arm the African Union force that is right there, right now, just as a transitional measure. But ultimately, they want a U.N. force there. Why not allow a U.N. force?

ABDALHALEEM: No, don't say the U.N. because we know how the Security Council functions, and we know how the United States is exploiting this forum to expand its own interests and agendas. We know the pressures that the United States has made, and the pressures also in the absence of Sudan and without inviting Sudan. And also...

VASSILEVA: But...

ABDALHALEEM: ... without heeding to the proposal of Sudan to postpone the session of the Security Council.

VASSILEVA: But again, there are atrocities happening there in Darfur. Two years ago, the U.S. called this a genocide there. The U.N. also has come close to calling this a genocide. Why not do the ultimate to help ease that situation? The U.S. is also talking about a political resolution of this problem.

ABDALHALEEM: No. Genocide -- they can call it anything. But the situation is not at all a genocide. This conflict in Darfur is like many conflicts in Africa. It is a conflict over diminishing the dwindling resources against the backdrop of long years of drought. It has never been a genocide. The United States knows that very well. But they are insisting on labeling us to tarnish the image of the country and also to make it as a pretext to make pressures on the government.

VASSILEVA: But 200... ABDALHALEEM: The government...

VASSILEVA: Two hundred thousand people have been killed, have died, as long as this conflict has been there. More than 2 million have been displaced. It's a very, very serious problem, even if you disagree with the label of genocide. And time is of the essence. People are dying every day.

ABDALHALEEM: You can say there are dying people. Some people are dying. This is regrettable. This is bad.

VASSILEVA: So why not...

ABDALHALEEM: But we have serious reservations as far as your statuses are concerned. This number is very much inflated. I don't know who went there and calculated the bodies. Many allegations from the European Union, from the United States and from other countries, went to Darfur and they did not find any mass graves or this number you are talking about. We think that there are casualties in Darfur. This is unfortunate, regrettable. But the number is inflated, really, to that extent in order for the United States to blame us and to call it a genocide. It is not a genocide at all.

VASSILEVA: Dr. Abdalmahmood Abdalhaleem Mohammad, thank you very much for speaking with us. The U.N. ambassador -- the Sudanese ambassador to the United Nations. Thank you very much.

ABDALHALEEM: Thank you. Thank you very much.

CLANCY: Well, we were talking about compromise in the background of all of these talks that are going on with Sudan. It certainly didn't sound like that...

VASSILEVA: No, it didn't sound -- we were expecting to hear something about compromise. But, so far...

CLANCY: We'll have to wait and see about that.

Coming up right here on YOUR WORLD TODAY, a prison in Guatemala is being controlled by the inmates itself. Now, no longer. We're going to tell you what ended this highly unusual arrangement.

VASSILEVA: Absolutely.

Also ahead, an American businessman, trying to make life in the West Bank, may be forced to go home and leave his family behind. We'll tell you why after this short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VASSILEVA: Priceless still, even though they're just a bit damaged from an art heist. Two very famous Edvard Munch paintings are on display in Norway for the first time since they were stolen two years ago. Visitors can see some corner damage on the screen and two holes in "Madonna." Police recovered the paintings last month. Restoration will begin after the brief exhibition. And from "The Scream" to the smile, the mysterious smile of the "Mona Lisa" which has intrigued art lovers and scientists alike for years.

CLANCY: Canadian scientists now are able to delve beneath the surface of that painting using infrared technology to uncover new information about the circumstances of Da Vinci's masterpiece.

VASSILEVA: Kate Eggins reports now on the unveiling of what really lies behind that enigmatic smile, or does she?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KATE EGGINS, CTV NEWS REPORTER (voice-over): She's known for her famous smile, and is perhaps one of the best known faces in history. Finally though, some of Mona Lisa's mystery is being revealed.

BRUNO MOTTIN, MUSEES DE FRANCE RESEARCH: There is a special mystery in the painting as in "The Da Vinci Code." Did we find any code in it? No, but we have to understand that in the painting, Leonardo decided to infuse the certainly and the cruelty (ph) of life.

EGGINS: They learned Leonardo Da Vinci modified the painting. Originally, Mona Lisa wore a bonnet which was later painted over. She also once wore a transparent veil, a garment reserved for expectant mothers. From that, art historians have a better sense of when Mona Lisa sat for the famous artist.

MOTTIN: The fact that she wears this (INAUDIBLE) proves us quite suddenly that this painting was commended for this special occasion.

FRANCOIS BLAIS, NATIONAL RESEARCH COUNCIL: You wouldn't have been able to get the information, unless you had a 3D camera.

EGGINS: Two years ago, French scientists teamed up with the National Research Council to view the painting in a way not possible with the naked eye. The NRC's 3D color laser scanner has the highest resolution of any camera worldwide.

JOHN TAYLOR, NATIONAL RESEARCH COUNCIL OF CANADA: Just that the face is equivalent to 150 million pixels camera.

BLAIS: The surface of the painting is in very good condition. There's very little loss, there's relatively little restoration on the surface. So it is in good shape despite the fact it is yellowed and varnished.

EGGINS: Now scientists will turn attention to how the Renaissance artist painted. They'll look at how he layered colors, creating depth. Those results are expected in the coming months.

Kate Eggins, CTV News.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CLANCY: All right. VASSILEVA: We were very interested in the fact that she was -- in the initial painting she was wearing a bonnet, so our graphics people played around a little bit.

CLANCY: Yes. That looks good. No doubt about that. That looks more fitting for a much younger girl, like about 6 or 7. Give me the next one. Oh, there you go. I think you'd look good in that, Ralitsa.

VASSILEVA: Oh, yes.

CLANCY: What's that, Puritan? Oh, there's another one. Looks a little bit like a garbage bag -- a white garbage bag. I don't know that -- no wonder they took it off her in the final edition.

VASSILEVA: I still want her to be an enigma.

CLANCY: Yes. That's better. Talking about enigmas, what's going to happen with tourism? It has been called the mother of all archaeological sites in the world.

VASSILEVA: But since 2003, the ancient city of Babylon in Iraq has been closed to the public.

CLANCY: The site just reopened for the press at least and a few lucky tourists too.

VASSILEVA: Femi Oke now joins us with more -- Femi.

FEMI OKE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello there to you, Ralitsa. Hi there to you, Jim, as well.

If you head south of out Baghdad, travel about 60 miles or 100 kilometers, you reach the ancient city of Babylon. For over a thousand years, it was one of the most celebrated cities in the entire world. Famous for King Nebakanezer II, who built the Hanging Gardens of Babylon, one of the seven wonders of the ancient world.

And each year in modern day Iraq, about this time, there was a Babylon Festival. The video you are watching right now is from the 2002 celebration. In 2003, during the second Gulf War, U.S. troops set up a military base on the actual ruins. That's Secretary of State Donald Rumsfeld taking a tour.

Now, their mission was to prevent looters from destroying the ancient city. And the move was extremely controversial, and the troops have been criticized for causing a great deal of damage. The site was recently reopened for the press and just a few tourists.

And at this point, I want to bring in CNN's Michael Holmes who has just come back from Iraq.

Michael, this must have been an incredibly well-managed press event. I can't imagine too many people are sightseeing out there in Iraq. MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. Femi, this was my seventh time back there. And I can tell you, Babylon might as well be in Saudi Arabia in terms of being able to get there from Baghdad. As you said, it's only about 100 kilometers, an hour-and-a-half, two hour's drive in the good old days.

These days you can't get there at all by road unless you want to put your life at risk. The security situation there is so tenuous, the very notion of tourists going to visit this ancient site is -- well, I mean really, it's ridiculous. And as you said too, there's a great controversy about U.S. and Polish troops causing enormous damage, essentially setting up base on top of some of the most valuable ruins there.

OKE: When you were in Iraq, what was the sort of things you're picking up from Iraqis about this military base being put on such an ancient site?

HOLMES: Well, I have got a lot of friends there, and when we'd talk long and hard about things, we did discuss this and they are very offended by it and they're annoyed by it. But, you know, the average Iraqi, the one that you talk to for maybe 20 minutes about something, they don't care.

You know, their life is not about Babylon or about the ancient wonders of the world. Their life is literally about staying alive today, getting able -- being able to go to work, being able to get home, send their kids to school. That's how bad the security situation really is on the ground.

OKE: CNN's Michael Holmes just back from Iraq. Michael, you have to come into work eventually. Look forward to seeing you soon. Take care.

HOLMES: All right.

OKE: Now, we also talked to CNN's Baghdad bureau about the ancient cite in Babylon. They tell us, from the Ministry of Tourism and Antiquities in Iraq that the site is not really officially opened to the general public yet. They obviously have a lot of restoration work still to be done. That's a wrap for me.

Back to Ralitsa and Jim.

CLANCY: All right. Femi Oke, thank you very much for that.

VASSILEVA: What an interesting site. Hopefully the security situation improves because I'd love to see that.

CLANCY: It is the archaeological -- Saddam Hussein really rebuilt that whole city.

VASSILEVA: Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, I'm Ralitsa Vassileva. Thank you so much for joining us.

CLANCY: I'm Jim Clancy. You're watching CNN. Stay with us. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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