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Nancy Grace

Manhunt for Gunman Continues in Florida

Aired September 28, 2006 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, breaking news out of Lakeland Florida. An unknown gunman takes aim, putting three schools in lockdown and shooting two sheriff`s deputies, one fatally.
And tonight, a parent`s worst nightmare, a 2-year-old tucked into his crib, mom in the next room with a video, then claims the window screen slashed, the baby gone. The mom commits suicide. Almost immediately, police declare her the prime suspect. Tonight, a stunning pattern alleged about Melinda Duckett`s treatment of baby Trenton, treatment before he seemingly vanished after state welfare took Trenton away from his mom three times over claims of pure neglect.

But first, live to Florida for the latest on the school siege.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We will find the suspect. We will bring him to justice. The investigation will go on. We`ll not sleep, we`ll not rest until we have the suspect in custody for this heinous action today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening, everyone. I`m Nancy Grace. Thank you for being with us. Tonight, to Florida, a seeming madman taking aim at sheriff`s deputies, now schools in lockdown, people behind their doors. He is still on the loose.

Straight out to reporter with 970 WFLA radio, Eben Brown. Eben, what`s going on?

EBEN BROWN, 970 WFLA RADIO: Well, we`re still trying to make some sense of it. What we know is that around 11:45 this morning, a routine traffic stop by one of the Polk County sheriff`s deputies resulted in some gunfire. They stopped this man for speeding. They tried to get some ID from him. Turns out he had some false ID. After a little bit of an exchange, you know, a verbal exchange, the suspect, the driver at the time, asked, Am I going to go to jail? The deputy said, Well, we`re not quite sure.

It`s a little bit shaky, but looks like the deputy then -- the driver took off, running into the woods, where some deputies started pursuing him on foot. That led to some gunfire. Some shots were heard at around 12:30. After a couple of outings into the woods, by the end of this, one deputy was wounded, another deputy and his canine partner were dead.

GRACE: Out to detective Mike Brooks, former D.C. police, in on the FBI terrorism task force. Mike, here`s a guy not afraid to turn around mid-foot-chase and take a couple of shots at police. And then we`ll let Eben explain this thoroughly, but then later during the day, police apparently giving a press conference. They say, We shouldn`t be doing this outside, and darn if the guy didn`t start shooting again.

MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, SERVED ON FBI TERRORISM TASK FORCE: Absolutely, Nancy. In fact, he confronted a Lakeland County -- a Lakeland police detective who was letting a family in the area know what was going on. He popped out from behind a house, exchanged gunfire with that officer and then ran back in the woods.

But right now, they`re concentrating their efforts on about a three- square-mile area of the woods, right where the chase took place. When nightfall comes, Nancy, and the area there cools down, they should be able to get a helicopter up and use the forward-looking infrared system to try to find this guy because...

GRACE: Mike...

BROOKS: ... a body...

GRACE: Mike! Mike, look at this bush. Look at this! Look at these trees, this forest. How do you think a helicopter is going to see through that foliage?

BROOKS: Nancy, I`ve been covering this all day, and I`ve seen how thick that foliage is. But a helicopter with infrared, if you`ve ever seen what the signature looks like in one of those helicopters -- I have -- it can get through this brush, and they should be able to find him if he`s still in that...

GRACE: What do you mean...

BROOKS: ... three-mile area.

GRACE: ... by the infrared? What do you mean by infrared?

BROOKS: Infrared, it puts out -- it detects heat. And a body -- you can almost see the whole outline of a person`s body by using this type of infrared.

GRACE: Through the trees?

BROOKS: Through the trees and through that thick brush, yes.

GRACE: OK. Back to Eben Brown with 970 WFLA radio. Eben, clarify for me. This guy is then near homes and he takes another shot at the cops?

BROWN: He had been running through some wooded areas where there had been residences. Lakeland Police Department had caught up with him at one point, where he took some shots at them. None of them were hurt. But looks like he may still be out there. We did have someone apprehended meeting the description, but so far, there`s been no confirmation that that`s him.

GRACE: Out to psychoanalyst Bethany Marshall. Bethany, this guy`s mentality is very, very unusual, in fact, almost unlike any other guy on the run. It`s almost as if he is taunting police. Remember Brian Nichols, the alleged courthouse shooter? He took down plenty of people after he made it out of the courthouse, including a deputy sheriff and a federal agent. Long story short, though, this guy seems to come out of hiding, take a shot and run back in hiding.

BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: Well, it`s like he`s not just evading the law because he`s afraid of being brought in or arrested on another offense, because that`s what we would guess, right, that he was -- maybe a warrant was out for his arrest, they pull him over, he runs from the law. This man is actually paranoid, and he believes that people are out to get him in a special and unique way. He hides behind a house. The detective comes up to the house. He jumps out, he pops gunfire at them. This man is not only enraged, he`s quite paranoid, and so I think it`s going to be a very dangerous search for police.

GRACE: Back of Eben Brown, 970 WFLA radio. Apparently, a madman on the loose in Florida near Lakeland. And what`s so unusual, Eben, is this all started over a routine traffic stop, right?

BROWN: That`s right. This man was speeding, and a sheriff -- a deputy sheriff, rather, on patrol just pulled him over as if it were any other traffic stop. They weren`t expecting this. As a matter of fact, Sheriff Grady Judd (ph) of Polk County was making statements earlier, wanted to remind everyone how, you know, there really is nothing routine about law enforcement. You know, this may appear to be routine, but look what happened.

GRACE: Take a listen to what police had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Quite frankly, it`s not safe to be out in the area right now. This guy is obviously very, very dangerous. He`s armed. We don`t know with how many guns he`s armed, possibly at least two guns. We certainly know he has the ability and will shoot.

What we know at this time is K-9 Diogi (ph) was shot to death. We also know at this time that K-9 deputy Matt Williams was shot to death. We know that Doug Spear (ph) was shot once in the leg and will make a full recovery.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Down in the line of duty tonight, Vernon Matthew Williams, Polk County sheriff, leaving behind a family, tour 12 years serving the public. Injured tonight, Polk County sheriff deputy Douglas Spears, 39 years old, six-year veteran. Also dead tonight, K-9 deputy Diogi, down in the line of duty.

Eben Brown 907 WFLA radio, he shot at the sheriffs, killed one of them. They the dog?

BROWN: Yes, he did shoot (INAUDIBLE) didn`t make it.

GRACE: Everyone, tonight, we are covering live for you, as you see it unfolding, apparently, a madman loose there in Florida, actually coming out of hiding within the trees, taking a shot at cops and going back.

It seems to me that the thinking of this guy is way, way off, and it`s something we cannot predict, Mike Brooks.

BROOKS: Nancy, it just happened -- it shows how dangerous a job this is. And you know, he shot and killed a deputy and his dog. It was a routine traffic stop. He was running radar on the interstate. And he stopped, and the guy produced false ID, and he was waiting for backup and then the guy just took off. And this officer initially chased him into the woods about 200 feet, came back out to wait for his backup. He waited for Deputy Williams and his dog. Then they went back in. And then he just popped up out of the brush, shot at them, shot a burst of gunfire, and two officers and one K-9 dog were down.

But I tell you what, what the sheriff said, that they`re not going to rest until they get this guy, and they will get this animal one way or the other.

GRACE: Out to Court TV`s Jean Casarez, also reporting from Florida. Jean, then, to top it all off, he put three or four schools in lockdown, and one student nearly takes a bullet. What happened?

JEAN CASAREZ, COURT TV: That`s right. Well, one student apparently looked like the assailant, and the guy was trying to get over a fence to skip school. Police made a run for it because the report was that this was the gunman. And so luckily, nothing happened to him.

But the schools have been in lockdown. One high school has been in lockdown throughout this evening with 1,600 students. Now, what has just happened is that they are taking those students to a church in the area. It`s being said that parents can pick up their children at this church, or else they will be in lockdown at the church throughout the night.

GRACE: Did they actually shoot at the student?

CASAREZ: No, I do not believe so.

GRACE: Thank God!

CASAREZ: There was such a run. Yes.

GRACE: So long story short, you put the schools down in lockdown, and one brilliant student decides, Perfect excuse for me to sneak out while we`re in lockdown. I`m out of classes. The guy tries to sneak out of the building, and cops come on to him, thinking he`s the perpetrator. He was this close to being shot down, Jean.

CASAREZ: That`s right. And I understand that he looked like the perpetrator. But Nancy, the latest news is that Doug Spears, the deputy that survived, has been released from the hospital. And Nancy, if he caught any type of a look at this man, then I`m sure that he will be giving the description, which will only add to the information the FBI has.

GRACE: OK, Liz, let`s unchain the lawyers. Joining us tonight from the Atlanta jurisdiction, Renee Rockwell, and joining our air again, Daniel Horowitz. Thank you for being with us, Dan.

DANIEL HOROWITZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Thank you, Nancy.

GRACE: Out to you, Renee. How often does a traffic stop turn into violence? It`s actually not that uncommon.

RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Not uncommon, Nancy. And here`s a guy that does not want to go to jail. Why? I don`t know. He may have a child support warrant on him. He might just be crazy. But here`s a guy that doesn`t want to go to jail. And by his actions, Nancy, him coming out of the woods and saying, like, Here I am, let me take another couple of shots at y`all, it makes me think that maybe he just wants to be killed himself. He`s not going to jail, Nancy.

GRACE: You remember our friend, the first friend I made on the police force when I was a district attorney, Officer Randy Shipani (ph). Pulled somebody over, routine traffic stop, boom, dead, right then. Shipani`s partner shot the assailant dead. That was the end of that.

Out to Daniel Horowitz. Dan, the psychology here very, very unusual. Of course, the three of us know, after all the cases the three of us have tried together, that you can`t predict what a criminal is going to do next. But come on. Routine traffic stop, Daniel, he takes a shot at the cops, shoots one dead, shoots the K-9 dog dead, takes another shot at a sheriff. And then while they`re trying to protect people in their neighborhood, Lakeland, Florida, this guy comes out and takes another shot!

HOROWITZ: Yes. Nancy, it`s so strange. I can imagine that this guy did not give off any really strange vibes, or the officers would have been much more on their guard and he wouldn`t have been able to run away. But then once he`s running, instead of escaping, he hides and shoots. It`s almost like this perpetrator is playing a video game, using real people as his targets. And it`s not going to end until the game is over.

GRACE: Well, I hope Mike Brooks is correct. I don`t have faith this guy is still going to be in a wooded area. If he`s gone into a neighborhood, he could be in somebody`s car. He could be in their basement. If he`s near a shopping mall, he could be waiting to jack a car and take off. And...

ROCKWELL: And Nancy...

GRACE: ... heat radar is not going to help that. Go ahead, Renee.

ROCKWELL: Nancy, one thing. We already know this guy`s facing capital punishment, at this point.

GRACE: Oh, yes.

ROCKWELL: He killed a cop. And he may not be taken alive, but -- so nobody`s safe. I mean, he can`t redeem himself.

GRACE: Let`s go out to the lines. Joe in Pennsylvania. Hi, Joe.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi, Nancy. How are you?

GRACE: I`m good, friend. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get right to it. Your producer told me that.

GRACE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would like to know, it`d give me much satisfaction -- although, the whole situation is sad -- I would like to know whether that man can be added onto his offenses, if he can be prosecuted also for killing that dog.

GRACE: Good question. Eben Brown, out to you, 970 WFLA radio. I would imagine that he can.

BROWN: You know, I don`t know the law. I know some states have that, where if a canine -- a cop canine -- you know, a police canine is shot, that that counts as the death of a police officer...

GRACE: Eben, please!

BROWN: ... or something like that.

GRACE: Dogs are people, too. Get it together! Mike Brooks, got an answer?

BROOKS: Yes, Nancy. I know some jurisdictions, he will be charged with destruction of government property because that dog belonged to the government. And I, you know, how K-9 dogs are. I`ve known some officers that have lost their dogs, and they`re part of the family and that family lost two members tonight, Deputy Williams and Diogi.

GRACE: Remember -- to the lawyers, Renee and Daniel. And again -- Renee coming out of the Atlanta jurisdiction, Daniel Horowitz joining us again after a very long absence from our airwaves. Very glad to have you back, Daniel.

You know, how many times have the three of us tried cases that include dog witnesses? In fact, I remember telling the judge the best witness I`ve ever had was a dog. He certainly did not surprise me on the stand. Daniel, have you ever had a dog witness?

HOROWITZ: Yes, Nancy. I remember during the Peterson case, you said the dogs were the best witnesses the prosecution had. People love the animals. And it`s a strange thing in law school when you learn that animals, dogs are treated just like property. They don`t reflect in the law the care that we have for our animals. And often, the death of a dog is not really punished in the law very badly, criminally. And civilly, if somebody kills your dog, you can`t sue them for more than just the value of buying a new one. It`s very strange.

GRACE: I want to talk very briefly, before we go to break, Renee, about the possibility of the death penalty in this case once the perpetrator is apprehended. You know that in most jurisdictions, while the DP is not automatic...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: ... shooting a cop is an aggravating circumstance.

ROCKWELL: Nancy, definitely, you`ve got a case where a cop is down. But back to the dog -- it`s a death penalty case, but back to the dog, Nancy. What`s happening probably in this jurisdiction is that when the officers did not want to go into the woods, they probably let the dog loose because the dog will go and capture anybody that`s hiding in the bushes. They can smell them. And that`s probably what happened. The dog was going after him. He killed the dog, then killed the cops.

GRACE: There`s nothing to stop a perpetrator like a big set of teeth.

To Mike Brooks, served on the FBI terrorism task force. Mike, so where do we stand right now? This guy clearly can be near a residential area. He can be near a shopping mall. My guess is he`s going to get out of the forest, get out of the foliage, jack a car and be gone.

BROOKS: That`s a good possibility of that, Nancy. You`ve got Polk County. You`ve got Lakeland. You`ve got Hillsborough County. You`ve got Florida Department of Law Enforcement. You`ve got over 200 officers in this area, looking for this guy, you know. And they`ve also -- today, they brought in a number of armored personnel carriers. They`ve got SWAT teams from all these different jurisdictions. You know, they`re being extremely careful.

But there`s always that possibility. And people who are living in that area who are watching us tonight, you know, lock your doors. If you see anything strange, hear anything strange, pick up that phone and dial 911. They will be there at a moment`s notice.

GRACE: Very quickly -- we`ll all be right back -- let`s go to tonight`s "Case Alert." Breaking news tonight in the death of former cover girl Anna Nicole Smith`s 20-year-old son, Daniel. Well-known pathologist Cyril Wecht says Smith died from the accidental effect of methadone -- that`s hard to get your mitts on -- methadone combined with two anti- depressants. Anna Nicole Smith hired Wecht to conduct a private autopsy after her only son died there at his mom`s hospital bedside just after she gave birth to a baby girl.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSH DUCKETT, MISSING BOY`S FATHER: You kind of come to a halt in your own mind. It`s, like, a feeling that no one could ever imagine. I mean, it feels like somebody stuck a dagger in my stomach, I mean, because he`s my pride and joy. He`s what I lived for. And I mean, to know that he`s gone and nobody knows where he`s at, I mean, it`s just a feeling I would never wish on anybody in my life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Welcome back. Back to Florida and the search for 2-year-old Trenton Duckett. We have not given up, and neither have Florida police. Tonight, 18 different agencies, plus the feds, still looking for this little boy. We can deduce that they believe there is a chance Trenton Duckett can be found.

Out to Court TV`s Jean Casarez. What`s the latest on the search, Jean?

CASAREZ: Well, the latest is that yesterday, the Department of Children and Families said that they would release the case file for Trenton Duckett in interest of public safety and in the interest of finding Trenton Duckett. One document has been released. We are awaiting the others. But the search continues now. And I think the possibility is that, Nancy, he still could be alive.

GRACE: And why do you say that, Jean?

CASAREZ: Because I think they did searches of areas that they believe a body could have been found, and a body was not found. And now they are talking with people because there are live people that may know things. And they are trying to piece together the timeline to see when the last time Trenton was with his mother and who she may have been in contact with at that time because if they talk to those people, they could possibly get some idea of what happened.

GRACE: Joining us tonight here in our studios, Trenton`s father, Josh Duckett, and our producer, Steph Watts, there on the scene, Leesburg, Florida.

Steph, let`s go back over what we know about the apartment complex. What can you tell us?

STEPH WATTS, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Sure, Nancy. Well, the interesting thing about the apartment tonight is it`s no longer considered a crime scene. They`ve released the apartment back to the leasing company. The leasing company has re-rented it, Nancy, and it`s got new tenants moving in.

I`m a little bit surprised about this because the lab results are not back yet. All the evidence hasn`t been processed. And if they need to get back in there, it`s going to be tainted from the new tenants. So it was a surprising move on -- on...

GRACE: What you are seeing now is the dumpster near Melinda Duckett`s apartment. This is where police found a treasure trove of evidence, including photos of baby Trenton, his sonogram, toys, toy box, baby food, the works.

Here in the studio with me and taking your calls tonight, Josh. This is Trenton`s father. When you see the videos of that dumpster and you know the sonogram and baby pictures thrown away, what`s your reaction?

JOSH DUCKETT: Well, I`m shocked. I mean, I don`t see where anybody would throw anything like that, of that value away. I mean, it has no money value, but I mean, it has memorial value throughout all of it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

MELINDA DUCKETT, MISSING BOY`S MOTHER: Hello?

911 OPERATOR: Hi. What is Trenton wearing, honey?

MELINDA DUCKETT: I don`t know. He was ready for bed.

911 OPERATOR: You don`t know what you dressed him in before he went to bed?

MELINDA DUCKETT: He might have had his shoes off and his shirt off -- no shoes. I know who friggin` did it!

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: Welcome back. The search for 2-year-old Trenton Duckett is still ongoing. Here in the studio with me, his father, Josh, and he is taking your calls.

Out to Mary in Florida. Hi, Mary.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. You`re wonderful. And I wanted to welcome Dan Horowitz back. My question is for Josh. Since Melinda seemed so intent on framing Josh, have the police searched anywhere near where Josh lives or works or any of his favorite, like, a hang-out...

GRACE: Interesting.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... a fishing hole or anything of that sort?

GRACE: Has your place or any of your hang-outs been searched?

JOSH DUCKETT: Yes. They`ve searched all the area. They done a full canvass of the neighborhood that I live in and everywhere around there.

GRACE: Josh, it`s come to my attention -- and I want to confirm this with you -- that your ex, Melinda Duckett, Trenton`s mom, had already written a will?

JOSH DUCKETT: Yes.

GRACE: Wrote a will before this happened?

JOSH DUCKETT: Yes. She had wrote a will. I believe it was June 6, is when it was completed.

GRACE: And when did she send herself the threatening e-mail from you?

JOSH DUCKETT: July 3.

GRACE: How do you see this fitting together, the will, the threatening e-mail from you to her, and Trenton?

JOSH DUCKETT: I think it was all part of a set-up, like, planning out stuff as far as, like, she may have been planning to kill herself and to send Trenton off somewhere, possibly. I mean, I`m not sure...

GRACE: You still believe Trenton`s alive?

JOSH DUCKETT: Yes, 110 percent. I mean, that`s the only way to stay as positive and keep moving forward. I mean, it`s all about Trenton. There`s still no word on him, so we got to just keep moving forward.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice-over): Two more letters released reveal the last dark moments before Melinda Duckett took her own life. One letter, addressed "Mom and Dad," asked them not to try and understand her to every extent. A second to her grandparents reads, "The main reason I`m doing this is because, even after my baby is found, I would not be a good mother. With two jobs and full-time school, I tried my hardest, but always slacked in some area."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It gives us that much more hope, because it says that maybe he`s out there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: The search for Trenton Duckett goes on. And tonight, in our set her in Manhattan, Josh Duckett is asking for your help.

Josh, a question. Last week, when you were on our show, I heard the FBI contacted you, that they had sighted Trenton on a plane only to find out it wasn`t him.

JOSH DUCKETT, FATHER OF TRENTON DUCKETT: Yes. During the interview, I received a phone call. And it was basically a stewardess on a plane leaving from Buffalo to Orlando who was 100 percent confident that it was Trenton on the plane. And so we rushed out of there and tried to make it over there. And just before we got to the airport, they confirmed that it wasn`t him.

GRACE: How did they do that, through birth marks or...

J. DUCKETT: Birth marks. And I guess the parents that were with the child had all identification for the child and everything.

GRACE: What kind of birth mark does Trenton have?

J. DUCKETT: He`s got a little dimple on his ear, on his left ear, and he`s got a little bit of like a birthmark on his lower back right above his butt.

GRACE: Let`s go to the lines. Out to Anthony in Ohio. Hi, Anthony.

CALLER: Hello, Nancy. I have a very quick question and a comment for you. First of all, the media outlets that blamed you for Melinda`s suicide ought to be ashamed of themselves.

And furthermore, for Josh, I`m wondering if maybe you can explain what seems to be the apparent disconnect between Melinda and her adoptive parents, if maybe you could shed some light on that.

GRACE: Josh?

J. DUCKETT: I don`t really know the whole story. I mean, I got several different stories. One says she was abused as a child, and one says she wasn`t. One says that she had threatened her parents and she was sent to Florida, so I really don`t know the whole truth.

GRACE: Do you, in retrospect, believe any of that?

J. DUCKETT: In my eyes, I mean, pretty much everything that she had said had been a lie before, so, I mean -- and it`s been a lie up until this point. So, I mean, why would it change with that?

GRACE: And to Anthony in Ohio, thank you, Anthony. I really appreciate that. Thank you.

Out to Bob in California. Hi, Bob.

CALLER: Hi, Nancy. I kind of differ with your last caller there (OFF-MIKE) I think you`re a big bitch.

GRACE: Well, you know what? It`s America, and everybody has an opinion.

Josh, question to you regarding laying blame one way or the other. At first, did police believe you were a suspect?

J. DUCKETT: Yes, I mean, in the start, obviously, they normally look at the parents (OFF-MIKE) because nobody knew the truth behind the e-mail. And, I mean, that played a big factor. So they pointed at me. I mean, the media was at me. I mean, they asked me hard questions. I cooperated 110 percent and proved the media to be false.

I mean, proved that it wasn`t me that had anything to do with it. The media eventually turned to Melinda. And at any time, she could have cooperated and proved she had nothing to do with it, if she, in fact, had nothing to do with it.

GRACE: Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MELINDA DUCKETT, LATE MOTHER OF TRENTON DUCKETT: Hello?

DISPATCHER: Hi, what is Trenton wearing, honey?

M. DUCKETT: I don`t know. He was ready for bed.

DISPATCHER: You don`t know what you dressed him in before he went to bed?

M. DUCKETT: He might have had his shoes off and or his shirt off, no shoes -- I know who friggin` did it.

DISPATCHER: No shoes, no shirt. He`s an Asian male.

M. DUCKETT: He`s wearing jean shorts. He`s 2 years old.

DISPATCHER: He`s wearing jean shorts.

M. DUCKETT: Yes.

DISPATCHER: And he`s 2 years old. And how long has he been gone?

M. DUCKETT: I don`t know.

DISPATCHER: You don`t know?

M. DUCKETT: I was watching a movie that was two hours long. I`ve checked on him before anyone came down to the house.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Let`s go out to Penny Douglass Furr, custody law specialist. You have reviewed all of the records. What is your observation?

PENNY DOUGLASS FURR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, Nancy. I believe that Melinda Duckett had built a house of cards around her. She was very manipulative. And everything was crashing in on her.

She went to court, she raised her hand in front of a judge. She swore under oath that she was in fear, to get a restraining order against Joshua, because of this e-mail that she received. And then, once it was found that the e-mail was written on her computer and not on Joshua`s computer, it all started to crash in around her.

And you have to remember, she raised her hand, she swore to tell the truth, and she said, "I`m in fear because of this e-mail." And it turns out she wrote the e-mail, and it`s a horrendous and vitriolic e-mail.

GRACE: Did you learn anything regarding DFCS, Department of Family and Children Services, taking the child away from her?

FURR: Well, apparently they took him away from her three times. And there was a report from a social worker that said the child should go to a father. There was also another report from the guardian ad litem who said it should go to the mother of the father. And that`s when she started this battle.

And, apparently, the restraining order was a part of her strategy to get this child back. And that`s when she went to court. She swore to tell the truth, and she said she was in severe fear because of this e-mail. That way, she could use this restraining order to get an advantage in the custody case against Joshua.

GRACE: Out to the lawyers joining us, Daniel Horowitz, Renee Rockwell, when you are dealing with custody issues, Daniel Horowitz, I`ve heard many lawyers say they`d rather try a murder case than a custody case.

DANIEL HOROWITZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, you`re right about that. Custody cases and family law cases have more killings in the court system than criminal cases.

And I have to add something. This is not to your question. But, Josh, you`ve got a great friend in Nancy Grace. I hope you know that. She will never abandon you. She stood by me these last 11 months. And I think you know how fortunate you are to have her in your corner. I hope you do.

GRACE: Thanks, Daniel.

HOROWITZ: You`re welcome.

GRACE: To Renee, Renee, in this particular case, we are learning more and more after looking at the records and finding just outright claims of neglect, claims, not proven, but claims of neglect, including not bathing the baby, letting four and five days go by without bathing the baby. Now, those are claims. They were not proven in court. That`s very disturbing.

ROCKWELL: Well, Nancy, and the fact that she would allegedly take the baby, and put the phone up to where Josh could hear, and she would make the baby cry. But I`m so happy to have Josh on the show.

And I just have one question to him: He`s listening to the 911 tapes. Can he just shed a little light? He`s listening to Melinda`s voice. Can you shed some light for us as to her voice? Does she sound -- does it sound staged? Does she sound exaggerated? Does she sound like she`s just out of her mind? How does it sound to you, these 911 calls?

J. DUCKETT: The tapes, to me, I mean, they sound like definitely that she`s kind of panicky. She`s trying to cover something up. I mean, you can definitely tell where her voice kind of cracks. And she goes from one extreme to the other. I mean, she goes from panicking and it sounds like she`s fixing to cry to where she`s perfectly able to answer a question.

GRACE: Out to Marilyn Aciego, joining us from "The Daily Commercial," Marilyn, what is the status of the search right now?

MARILYN ACIEGO, REPORTER, "DAILY COMMERCIAL": Nancy, police are still waiting on more tips to come in. And while Leesburg police have scaled back some of their investigators, I spoke to the Florida Department of Law Enforcement today, and they wanted to make sure that everybody knows they have not scaled back and they still have a full squad working on this case.

GRACE: Take a listen to that 911 call.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DISPATCHER: Are you at the house right now? Has he ever done this before?

M. DUCKETT: Has he ever done what before?

DISPATCHER: Has he ever walked out of the house before?

M. DUCKETT: No, he was in his room.

DISPATCHER: He was in his room? And how many -- is there a back way out of the house -- she left him, she says, for two hours -- OK, are you at the house right now, Melinda?

M. DUCKETT: Yes!

DISPATCHER: OK, all righty. Stay right there at the house. I`m going to have officers right there to you, OK? All righty, we`ll be right there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: In the studio with us tonight, Josh Duckett. This is Trenton`s father taking your calls.

Out to Michelle in Florida. Hi, Michelle.

CALLER: Hi, Nancy. You`re wonderful. Thank you for all you do.

GRACE: Thank you.

CALLER: I wanted to ask Josh -- my family and I live in Jacksonville, Florida, and we would like to help. What can we do to help you?

J. DUCKETT: Basically, if you can get some of the flyers and just make a copy, make five copies, and pass them out to five people, and have them do five copies and pass them out. I mean, that`s multiplying in the fives.

GRACE: And the 1-800 number is 1-800-423-TIPS for the Trust Fund, for donations, for the reward and search effort, the ongoing search effort 1- 800-SUN-TRUST. That`s the way to help find Baby Trenton. His father still believes to this moment that he is alive.

Out to Steph, what did you learn, Steph, in your trip down today?

WATTS: Well, Nancy, I had a chance to get in to see Melinda`s car. And what I thought was really interesting about the car was the windows are extremely tinted, tinted black. So if she was driving around in that car, you wouldn`t be able to see if she had or didn`t have a child in there. And I thought that was really interesting.

They also talked to me about the money that was in the ashtray. And I asked the detectives if they could lift fingerprints off that money, Nancy, in case it was exchanged for the child. And they said it would be difficult to do, because money passes through so many hands.

(NEWSBREAK)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s been frustrating from the beginning knowing a 24-month-old baby is out there, somewhere. I know it`s very difficult for the families. And we want to find him and bring him home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: With us in the studio tonight, Trenton`s father, Josh Duckett. You seem so sure that this child is still alive. Is there something about the will that she wrote a couple of months before her suicide? What is making you think that?

J. DUCKETT: In a sense, the will does give us that much more hope, because in there, I mean, everything goes to her aunt and says that her aunt`s in charge of it for Trenton. And then with the notes that have been released, some of them have referenced to him being found. I mean, one`s that, when he`s found, she wouldn`t be a good mother to him anyways. So that gave us that much more hope. And then the other note said, as he grows up, she basically hopes that he understands why this has happened.

GRACE: So you`re pinning your hopes on her suicide notes?

J. DUCKETT: Yes.

GRACE: Out to Amanda in Michigan. Hi, Amanda.

CALLER: Hi. I just had a question for Josh. I don`t know what the beliefs of the family are, but have they considered using a psychic, a criminal investigator, professional psychic?

GRACE: Good question. What about it, Josh?

J. DUCKETT: They`ve considered it, but we`ve kind of passed it off a little bit at this time. I mean, we`re still working with the FBI and all of them.

GRACE: And speaking of the FBI, to Jean Casarez with Court TV. It`s my understanding -- although we heard that the Leesburg police are scaling back their search, the FDLE says no way are they scaling back.

CASAREZ: That`s right, FDLE, FBI. You`ve got the sheriff`s deputy in Marion County, also the Lake County sheriff`s department. Leesburg, I think, is the smallest unit, because Leesburg is a small town. They obviously have day-to-day work to do. But the other units, full in force.

GRACE: And to Mike Brooks, former D.C. police and FBI task force, what is the FDLE? We talk about it a lot.

BROOKS: That`s the Florida Department of Law Enforcement, Nancy. They`re an extremely well-respected investigative organization. And they also have a excellent crime scene unit, and they have their own lab, also, that some of the forensics have been taken to. They are extremely well- respected and usually do a fantastic job.

GRACE: And to Marilyn Aciego, the FDLE said they are not scaling back. So what are they doing tonight to find Trenton?

ACIEGO: They are still continuing to analyze all the things that are in the lab, the computer, the screen, the fluids that were found in the hallway of Melinda`s apartment. And they`re still taking tips and have their investigators out, working, talking to people, going over surveillance tapes, anything they can do to find Trenton.

GRACE: Out to Marc Klaas, a friend of the show, founder of Beyond Missing. Marc, at this juncture, is it only wishful thinking to think he is still alive, or is there a chance and why?

MARC KLAAS, FOUNDER OF BEYOND MISSING: Well, first of all, I`d like to say hello to Dan, as well, because he has been in my thoughts lately.

But, no, it`s not just wishful thinking. They`ve not given him any evidence whatsoever that his son is dead. Therefore, why should he believe that he`s dead? I believe, until that happens, Josh will continue to hope that his son is alive, and he`ll continue to search for his son.

And we had a conversation a little bit earlier today, and he seems to be positioning himself very well to continue this search for this little boy until this case is resolved one way or the other.

GRACE: Marc, it`s bad enough when a child goes missing. But when you throw in a custody battle, a contentious divorce, how does that affect it?

KLAAS: Well, and you have a crazy woman, too, an evil, crazy woman. It affects it greatly, but still there`s no indication that she hated the boy or that she would have killed the boy.

The indication is that she had a lot of vindictiveness towards almost everybody else and could easily have done this simply as a way to get at Josh for some reason, for some perceived transgression. But certainly it doesn`t mean that the little boy is dead. There`s a lot of evidence that still has to be pulled in, and I think it would be a rush to judgment to suggest that he`s dead until it`s proven otherwise.

GRACE: Elizabeth, can you pull up the map, the revised map of where we know Melinda Duckett went around the time Josh went missing? We know that, when she came on the show and told us that she was shopping, that that was a lie. We now know, because of her cell phone records, she was not in the Ocala National Forest, the way she said she was. That was a lie.

But look at where all she was driving. Take a look at that. Josh, you know the area. What`s your take on where all she went? Look at that.

J. DUCKETT: I mean, my take on it is somewhere in the Paddock mall. I know she has a couple of friends -- I don`t know exactly who they are -- in the Ocala area. I know Interstate 75 runs from Ocala, by the Paddock mall, down to Wildwood. And she could have went on that route and taken that across to Minneola.

GRACE: By why lie to her lawyer, the one that wrote the will for her? How old was she, 20, 21, when she had...

J. DUCKETT: 20.

GRACE: Twenty years old when she wrote a will. This is two months before she commits suicide. All the driving around, does that suggest to you that she was looking back where Trenton may be?

J. DUCKETT: Melinda was known that, when she got frustrated or she was upset about something, she would drive, just drive anywhere.

GRACE: OK. Where did she get the $900 cash? Was she working at this time?

J. DUCKETT: She was working, to my knowledge, but I`m not sure exactly where she got the $900 cash from.

GRACE: Where was she working?

J. DUCKETT: Treemain Lawn Care (ph).

GRACE: What did she do for them?

J. DUCKETT: She worked in the office.

GRACE: So she was an office worker. Was that at minimum wage?

J. DUCKETT: I`m not sure what her pay was.

GRACE: An office worker with them, but $900 bucks? Was that unusual?

J. DUCKETT: It wasn`t unusual for her to have money. I mean, she got a lot of money in various ways, got money from her grandparents. I mean, there was numerous ways that she got money.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MELINDA DUCKETT, LATE MOTHER OF TRENTON DUCKETT: Hello?

DISPATCHER: Hi, what is Trenton wearing, honey?

M. DUCKETT: I don`t know. He was ready for bed.

DISPATCHER: You don`t know what you dressed him in before he went to bed?

M. DUCKETT: He might have had his shoes off and or his shirt off, no shoes -- I know who friggin` did it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Right now, we`re wondering where $900 cash came from that Melinda Duckett left, not to her son, Trenton, but to her grandparents. Out to Jean Casarez, what can you tell me about her job status?

CASAREZ: Well, you know, it`s interesting. The Department of Children and Families report that, five days before Trenton went missing, she was interviewed by services, and she said she had lost her job and that money was, quote, "very tight." So they advised her to apply for food stamps and monetary help.

And two days before Trenton went missing, she was interviewed for assistance and food stamps. And then, one week later, two weeks later, when she took her own life, $900 was given to her grandparents.

GRACE: So she lost her job and applied for food stamps. How soon before Trenton went missing?

CASAREZ: Two days was her interview for those food stamps and assistance.

GRACE: To Josh Duckett, Trenton`s father, what can you tell me about the alleged purchase of an iPod?

J. DUCKETT: I had gotten a story earlier today from an unknown source, but I got this story that she had received money from a fund that her grandparents` church had collected up to help her, and that that was minus -- the $900 was minus $150 she had spent on an iPod.

GRACE: What was the money for?

J. DUCKETT: In my eyes...

GRACE: This is after Trenton went missing?

J. DUCKETT: Yes. It was to help with money that was having to be paid out for Trenton, the search for Trenton.

GRACE: And an iPod was bought, instead of the search?

J. DUCKETT: Yes.

GRACE: OK.

Let`s stop just for a moment to remember Air Force Master Sergeant Brad Clemmons, 37, Ohio, killed, Iraq. His wife, Rebecca, says he loved people, children, his country, and the Air Force. Brad Clemmons, American hero.

Thank you to our guests. Welcome back, Daniel Horowitz. And thank you, Josh Duckett, but especially to you for being with us. NANCY GRACE signing off again for tonight. See you here tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

END