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CNN NEWSROOM

Democrats Call For House Ethics Committe Probe of Foley; Former Pitchers Calls Out Roger Clemens

Aired October 1, 2006 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: On now to our top story, and Capitol Hill where a major political scandal is triggering outrage and putting top Republicans on the defensive. The controversy centers around e-mails and instant messages Congressman Mark Foley allegedly sent to congressional pages; some of the messages, sexual in nature.
The House Ethics Committee is investigating. And Foley, a Florida Republican, has resigned. But Democrats are turning up the heat today in a letter to the Ethics Committee, House Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi wants the investigation to start immediately, and not be limited to Foley's actions. She also wants to zero in on top Republicans -- when did they know about the e-mails, and how did they respond?

Some GOP leaders, including Speaker Dennis Hastert have given conflicting reports about when they learned about Foley's e-mails. I talked about that timing question earlier with CNN congressional correspondent Dana Bash.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What we know as of now is that three Republican leaders were aware of at least one, what they call overly friendly e-mail exchange between Foley and a former intern. And the House speaker is one of those leaders, despite the fact that his top aides told us Friday that he actually knew nothing about it. He was forced to make a correction of sorts after it was revealed that he actually was informed about this in the spring.

But you mention, of course, the big question. What do they do about it? Now Republicans say is that they investigated, because they sent the Republican head of the House Page Board and one other official to talk to Mark Foley at the end of last year when they found out about that one e-mail exchange and they said to stop having any connection with this young man, and mind your conduct in the future.

But Democrats say that's simply not acceptable. That what they needed to do, be involved. The Democrat on that page board says he knew nothing about it. And basically what they say is that Republicans were investigating themselves, not appropriate.

Let's listen to what the Democrat who is running for Foley's seat in Florida had to say about this.

TIM MAHONEY, (D) HOUSE CANDIDATE: It's now clear from press all the reports that the Republican leadership team knew this this was going on and they had to make a choice, had to do what was right for the children, that they were in the care of the government or they could try to hold on to a seat, and they decided to try to hold on to a seat.

WHITFIELD: And so Dana, while now the Ethics Committee is looking in to this in the house, this certainly has to dovetail into a criminal investigation. Doesn't it?

BASH: Well, it certainly would seem that it could. As of Friday, before it became the sexually explicit instant messages became public -- there's no indication there was a criminal investigation going forward on Mark Foley. But now it is clear that federal officials, law enforcement officials are going to have to try to figure out whether any laws were broken.

We do know that Mark Foley used a personal e-mail account for these instant messages. We don't know where he was, whether it was in his Capitol office or his home or somewhere else. But we know at this point they've actually sealed off what was his office until Friday in the Capitol. Capitol Police are standing by, apparently trying to make sure that every potential evidence is protected there, Fred.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: Capitol Hill correspondent Dana Bash.

As for the future of the page program, Republicans leaders say they're creating a hot line so pages can report any improper behavior, and they are considering new rules on communications to prevent this type of incident from happening again.

And in just about a half hour from now, Time columnist Joe Kline joins us live to talk about the Foley scandal and the explosive allegations in Bob Woodward's new book on the White House and Iraq.

And for all the politics you could possibly handle from the best political team in the country, check out our political ticker at CNN.com.

Now, the question surrounding the sudden emergence of years' old terrorist videotape. It shows Egyptian Mohamed Atta and a second 9/11 conspirator more than a year and a half before the attacks on U.S. soil. The tape also includes an outdoor speech by Osama bin Laden.

We'll start in London where the tape was posted today on a newspaper's web site. Here's CNN Paula Newton.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on-camera): The tape runs about an hour, and is silent throughout, but no less chilling. Specifically, what seems so out of place is to see these two hijackers together in a very joking type of jovial way.

What they are actually doing in the video, The Sunday Times says their looking at their martyrdom wills, going over them, trying to decide exactly how they will reading those martyrdom wills on the air.

Then you see them look straight down the barrel of the camera and give their martyrdom wills.

We are told U.S. authorities had this tape for quite some time. They have been through it. They have tried to get lip readers to understand what these men are saying. They have seen much of the tape that also includes Osama bin Laden giving a speech to about 1,000 hardcore al Qaeda supporters.

Also very out of place in the video are scenes of children that really do startle you when you first see them.

In general, though, most people say that this tape, although it is quite old, was at the time a very significant piece of evidence in that it takes two of the masterminds of 9/11 and puts them together in Afghanistan quite crucially 21 months before 9/11 just happened. It gives us a glimpse into exactly how long this operation was in the planning stages and how complicated it actually was.

Paula Newton, for CNN, in London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: For more on this story, we turn to Peter Bergen, CNN's terrorist analyst. He joins us now from Washington. Go to see you, Peter.

This is not the first time we're seeing videotape of any terrorist involved in 9/11 before the attacks. So why is it we're seeing these tapes like this resurface?

PETER BERGEN, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Well, I'm not really sure of the answer to that question, Fredricka. The way these tapes came in to the Sunday Times was by Yasser Efudah (ph) who is an al Jazeera correspondent who is a very good reporter, who has excellent contacts.

In fact, interviewed Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and Ramsey Binalshibh, the main plotters of the 9/11 attacks, and The Sunday Times says that they got these through a trusted channel. I imagine that Yasser Efudahs (ph) contacts within al Qaeda reached out to him and somehow made this tape available.

I mean, it's of interest in historical value. Certainly it puts, you know, these two important pilots in the 9/11 plot in Afghanistan, in a tape made by al Qaeda's video production arm.

What's interesting, Fredricka, about these two guys is that two more different people you could hardly think of. Mohamed Atta, who we see here, a very serious Egyptian student and Ziad Jarrah, the other guy we see here, sort of a Lebanese playboy who had a girlfriend, who may have even been his wife, even drank on occasion.

And it sort of raises an interesting question about terrorists in general, because you know, it's very hard to -- you couldn't predict Ziad Jarrah would be a guy who would fly a plane into what would turn out to be a Pennsylvania field.

WHITFIELD: Well, I wonder if this terrorist group, if al Qaeda would stand to benefit from this kind of tape, getting this kind of air play in its recruitment efforts? Because now it gives not only these two terrorists kind of rock star status, but perhaps anybody else who might be recruited to join their group?

BERGEN: Certainly, Fredricka we -- and that may well be the case. We've seen this year Ayman al Zawahiri's released 14 videotapes, Osama bin Laden's released five audio tapes -- and this video production arm, which is known as Asahab (ph) which means the clouds in Arabic, is being quite productive this year.

And so you know, the release of this tape may be out of that effort to remind people about the 9/11 attacks. They want to milk the fifth anniversary. We had a tape of Ayman al Zawahiri come out on the fifth anniversary of 9/11. So perhaps, as you say, this is an effort to help with recruitment and also remind the world that al Qaeda is still out there.

WHITFIELD: And in this videotape, we are seeing Osama bin Laden who apparently is talking to a lot these followers. How do you analyze his demeanor in this tape?

BERGEN: Well frankly, Fredricka, it's the first time I'm seeing it, along with the audience. It's interesting this particular group of people started making videotapes of bin Laden.

This is a speech outside here. He's dressed sort of in clerical garb it looks like. You'll see that he seems quite low-key which is typical of the man. He -- when we interviewed him on CNN, he presented himself very much like a cleric, as he is doing here.

And you know, I think that this -- this video production arm began -- it's interesting that this came out, this tape appears to have been made -- this is very interesting. He's wearing this dagger. You see the dagger in this picture? That's dagger is very typical of Yemen. And this would have been right in the run-up to the attack on the USS Cole that this tape was made, and this was a way that al Qaeda -- there were other pictures that came out at the time, bin Laden wearing this dagger and a way of them subtly signaling the plan to attack the USS Cole in Yemen, because he rarely wears this dagger. And it was a way of indicating to the followers and to the world when these pictures came out that they were thinking of the Cole.

And this may be one of his kids. It's not clear. Certainly bin Laden has about 20 children who were with him in Afghanistan when he was living there.

WHITFIELD: Well I am sure, Peter, as you get a chance to see more and more of this tape we're all seeing for the first time today, you'll be able to pick up a few more nuances to learn a lot about al Qaeda and its follower, and its leader.

Peter Bergen from Washington, thank you so much.

BERGEN: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: Also ahead -- an old scandal, perhaps new players? Baseball star Roger Clemens reacts to charges he used performance- enhancing drugs.

And later, amazing stories from Darfur from a photographer just back from the region. You're in the newsroom.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: A published report today linked big names in baseball with allegations of using performance-enhancing drugs. The Los Angeles Times report is based on statements former pitcher Jason Grimsley (ph) allegedly made to federal agents in late May and early June.

The report relies on information from two anonymous sources. According to the newspaper, Grimsley (ph) implicates Houston Astros pitcher Roger Clemens. The Times saying Grimsley (ph) told investigators in an affidavit that Clemens, quote, "used athletic performance-enhancing drugs."

The paper says other names in the affidavit include Clemens fellow Astros pitcher Andy Pettite.

The agent for both players, Randy Hendricks, reacted to the report.

Regarding Clemens, Hendricks tells the Associated Press, quote, "I've grown weary of having to defend Clemens from innuendo and conjecture about every six months for the last several years when he's complied with all of the rules and regulations."

Regarding Pettite, the agent says, quote, "Andy is just surprised and stunned and has no knowledge of any such activity."

According to the Times report, Grimsley also allegedly told investigators that Baltimore Orioles player Miguel Tejada used anabolic steroids. Tejada denied the allegations in comments to the Baltimore Sun. He said, quote, "I know that I've never used that and know I am clean. I'll get checked out for anybody, any time, any moment, whenever they want," end quote.

Grimsley (ph), the former pitcher who a (INAUDIBLE) made the accusations admitted use growth hormone, steroids and amphetamines. The Times says its report is based on the affidavit investigators used to search Grimsley's (ph) house. Players' names were blocked out when the document was originally made public on May 31, but the L.A. Times says it located an unnamed source with authorized access to the unedited affidavit.

The paper was allowed to see an unaltered report briefly. The unidentified source read aloud some of what was blacked out in the affidavit which was made available to the public.

And CNN's Larry Smith is here to give us a little bit more perspective on this. I have a feeling this is really the tip of the iceberg. But most notably, you were at the Braves/Astros game. And was there much reaction to this?

LARRY SMITH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It was pretty much what you'd expect. The Astros tried to have tunnel vision, Fredricka, because they need a win today. First things first.

At Atlanta to keep playoff alive their playoff hopes. They did lose to Atlanta 3-1, so they will not be in these playoffs.

However, to a man, they defended their teammates. And said they were stunned by the allegations.

Let's start first with the accused themselves. Clemens and Pettite (ph), talked to reporters first thing this morning. Clemens, a 7 time Cy Young Award winner as the top pitcher in his league, had a first ballot Hall of Famer when he finally does decide to retire for good, said quote, " I've been tested plenty of times. My physicals I've taken they have taken my bloodwork, I have passed every test.

Again, I find it amazing you can throw anybody out there."

Pettite's response, "I've never used any drugs to enhance my perform in baseball. I don't know what else to say except to say it's embarrassing my name would be out there." Again, this is a quote from Andy Pettite.

Now, their Astros teammates offered their thoughts.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I read the report. I really don't put any stock in it. I've played with these guys for three years and at no point has it even crossed my mind that they might be taking something.

LANCE BERKMAN, HOUSTON ASTROS: I just feel bad for Andy and for Roger, because, you know, it's one of those situations where, I mean, I could say, well, so and so, I know it for a fact, took steroids. Even if I was lying or didn't know what I was talking about, well, his reputation would always have a cloud of suspicion around it just because I threw that accusation out there.

PHIL GARNER, ASTROS MANAGER: Our guys have been tested the Major League Baseball program. Rocket (ph) was tested in the World Baseball Classic Program and both guys have been clean. There's no reason for us or anybody to think they've been doing anything.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SMITH: A spokesman for Major League Baseball said that league has no information on how the affidavit was obtained or even regarding its accuracy. Certainly there is a liable issue that could come in to play here as well. And Clemens said if one of his sponsors should drop him as a result of these allegations, then his lawyers would definitely get involved at that point.

WHITFIELD: Oh, this is going to get real heated then.

SMITH: It could be.

I mean, this is one thing, too. These guys are like, hey, we're trying to get something else done.

We should keep in mind also that baseball really stepped up its steroid testing policy this year. Much more teeth than it had in the past.

One, critics will say what about human growth hormone? It's a thing right now, you have to have blood testing for that. One thing everyone talked about today when that issue was brought up was that, there really is no -- no test that is accurate enough or dependable enough right now to try to institute that in Major League Baseball.

WHITFIELD:: Well, a lot on the line, Larry. You know, your career, your reputation and the whole sport.

SMITH: We'll see where we go from here. Yet another -- this happens so many times. We'll see where this one takes us now.

WHITFIELD: Yeah.

SMITH: We know what's happened in the past

WHITFIELD:: All right. Larry, thanks so much.

SMITH: OK.

WHITFIELD: Well, Donald Rumsfeld -- well, he's been under fire for his handling of the Iraq war. Straight ahead the defense secretary responds to his critics in an interview with our Frank Sesno.

And Time magazine's political columnist Joe Kline weighs in on the Mark Foley scandal, that's straight ahead here in THE NEWSROOM.

But first, when your cell phone rings, you want to stand out from the crowd, or at least distinguish which one is yours. Well, how about creating your own personalized ring tone? Dan Sieberg shows you how in our technophile report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DANIEL SIEBERG, CNN TECHNOLOGY CORRESPONDENT: In your quest to have your cell phone or PDA stand out in a crowd, how would you like to learn how to personalize your ringtones?

Joining us now to talk about making your own is Brian Cooley, editor at large with CNET. So, Brian, first of all, how easy is it to do this?

BRIAN COOLEY, EDITOR AT LARGE, CNET.NET: Not hard at all. Most of us have a large library of MP3s today. You can take little pieces of those and turn those into ringtones and save buying them at $1 $2, $3 a pop. So here's a program that does it. It's from a company called MAGIX. It's called Ringtone Maker. It's one of the good ones. I've taken a piece of music and I've dragged it down here in this cutting window so I can select my little piece. I use these markers to create this red region, which is the part that I want to make a ringtone out of, and I hit this button called simulate ringtone just to check it. And that lets me know what is going to play and what it is going to sound like. And it sounds pretty good.

So now have I have already done the research on my phone. I know that my phone, for example, will use an MP3 ringtone so I save this little clip as an MP3. It saves it to my computer and that's going to give me the file on my machine.

Then I have to transfer that ringtone to my phone. You synchronize your phone to your computer. Most modern phones today can do that. And then you go look at your phone and see if you've got the file. There it is. Now I'll play it here.

SIEBERG: Wow. So you can that with virtually any song you've got in your library?

COOLEY: Any song will easily cut down like that. Now, hopefully it's a song you own legally and didn't steal to begin with.

SIEBERG: Right. Paid for, right.

COOLEY: And then I think you're on pretty stable legal footing. But this is a great way to build a library of ringtones without having to go buy them all afresh.

SIEBERG: All right, sounds good. Brian Cooley, editor at large of CNET. We appreciate it.

COOLEY: You bet.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Welcome back to THE NEWSROOM. U.S. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld may have the unflagging support of President Bush, but is he losing ground with the public? Check out these numbers from our latest CNN poll -- 57 percent say that Rumsfeld's military planning has hurt the U.S. mission in Iraq; 47 percent now think Rumsfeld should step down.

Well, like him or loathe him, Donald Rumsfeld takes a philosophical approach to his many critics. He says criticism of him goes with the territory.

This weekend, "CNN PRESENTS" take as closer look at the controversial defense secretary. Here's Frank Sesno with a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FRANK SESNO (voice-over): When I meet with him on late summer morning in his spacious Pentagon office, this man of war, constantly under fire, is notably relaxed and gracious. DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF STATE: I found that in a fleamarket in Michigan.

SESNO: He points to history, which he invokes again and again.

RUMSFELD: Aggressive fighting for the right is the noblest sport the world affords.

SESNO: And that's Teddy Roosevelt.

RUMSFELD: Yes.

SESNO: He knows that America doesn't like long wars. And he knows that this one is increasingly unpopular.

(on camera): A lot of people say, when you get in there with Donald Rumsfeld, give him hell. Why didn't he have more troops? If he's so tough, why wasn't he doing that? What do you say to those people?

RUMSFELD: Well you know, it is awfully easy to be on the outside and to opine on this and opine on that and critique this. If you go back and check the people who have been offering opinions, they've been wrong as many times as they've been right.

SESNO (voice-over): But he betrays no doubts about the wisdom or the need to prevail.

RUMSFELD: I do enjoy competition.

SESNO: He was a collegiate wrestler. And at 74 he still needs to win. He believes he's right. And that Iraq and the American people will come around.

RUMSFELD: When people are writing the history books, you're going to be in it.

SESNO: History again.

RUMSFELD: And big things over time the American people have been right. It they're not, they would have tossed in the towel on the Revolutionary War, we wouldn't have had a country. Think of the people who were telling Abraham Lincoln not to even have a Civil War. We wouldn't have the United States of America today if he believed that.

SESNO: But Donald Rumsfeld who has acknowledged few mistakes and is not one to second guess, now says something that seems obvious, but from him is surprising.

RUMSFELD: Well, I think that anyone who looks at it, with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight has to say that there was not an anticipation of the level of the insurgency being anything approximately what it is.

SESNO: It is a remarkable admission, a statement that begs the question, why? Why didn't Rumsfeld and his generals anticipate this? Was it inevitable? What was Rumsfeld's role?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: And learn more about the controversial defense secretary. You can see the complete "CNN PRESENTS" special report tonight at 8:00 eastern time. "Don't miss Rumsfeld: Man of War."

Former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger is downplaying reports of differences over Iraq in the Bush administration. He appeared on CNN's "LATE EDITION" today and responded to allegations in Bob Woodward's new book "State of Denial."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HENRY KISSINGER, FRM. SECRETARY OF STATE: Of course there are -- there are sharp differences, which have been widely reported. But in almost every administration that I've seen, there have been differences -- sometimes more, sometimes less intense.

And I think we should focus our national discussion on where we should go now. I believe at some point, at some early point, other countries have to be brought in to the discussion in the future of Iraq.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Monday night woodward discusses the new book on "LARRY KING LIVE." You can catch that at 9:00 Eastern.

(NEWSBREAK)

WHITFIELD: Against the Hamas led government. Firefights later broke out between rival security forces.

Let's check now on the nation's weather, kind of a mixed bag out there. Jacqui Jeras is in the weather center.

Jacqui.

JACQUI JERAS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Well Fredricka, we are going to start you out talking about a hurricane because it is threatening parts of Canada. It's not going to happen until tomorrow, but we need to be prepared. Because it is a pretty potent storm system.

Right now it is a hurricane with winds around 80 miles per hour. Still about 800 miles way from the coast and expected to potentially hit, and is a fast-moving storm and it is expected to be picking up forward speed. You can see ahead of this hurricane a look at all of that wind shear as we call it. Those are strong winds that if it's going to run in to, it is going to start to break the storm down. We expect it to weakening over the next 24 to 36 hours and it will probably be a tropical storm once it reaches Newfoundland. There you can see the forecast path it should be moving through the day on Monday. It may or may not make a direct landfall. It's going about to close call. But either way you need to be prepared for it. So tropical storm watches have been posted for parts of Newfoundland and Labrador. It includes the city of St. John. So most of the peninsula expecting to see tropical storm force winds between 35 and 55 miles per hour. That's strong enough to cause some pretty big branches to break off some pretty big trees and also cause power outages.

You don't want to have any loose furniture or anything outside. It's really going to be a Monday event. By Tuesday, looking for better conditions.

Back here at home today we have some wet weather moving across parts the northeast. Airport delays at Boston, Logan because of a lot of rain pushing on in there, a lot of rain across much of Maine and across parts of the southwest. We haven't seen this in quite some time. Look at that. We have some light rain coming down across parts of the Los Angeles area; it is going to be moving in to some of the burned areas. So that's great news, a little bit of relief.

But, Fredricka, we do need to be aware that when you get a lot of rain in those areas, well, lightning, yes, that could spark more, too, but some mudslides and maybe some debris flows. There's no vegetation to absorb up that rain when it comes down.

WHITFIELD: Well let's hope they get the perfect balance. Thanks so much Jacqui.

Well a storm brewing of another sort that's got everybody in and outside of the beltway talking. More fallout from the Mark Foley scandal. We will have a live report from Washington.

And Bob Woodward's new book "State of Denial" well that too has the political world buzzing. We'll talk about Foley and Woodward with "Time" Magazine's columnist Joe Klein.

GERRI WILLIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The future of Social Security may be a question mark in Washington, but if retirement is in you're near future, you need to start looking at your Social Security benefits now. When you hit 62, you can begin receiving benefits, but the longer you wait to start your Social Security payments, the more you'll get each month. When you start, it's up to you.

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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: The fallout over suggested e-mails from Florida Congressman Mark Foley to house pages is shaking the Republican Party. The house voted for an investigation and there are growing calls for a criminal probe as well. Gary Nurenberg joins us live with more reaction from Washington. GARY NURENBERG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi Fredricka. Democrats are escalating their attacks on Republican house leadership for the way it responded when some leaders learned last fall that Republican Congressman Mark Foley of Florida had been sending suggestive e-mails to a 16-year-old boy who had served as a house page. Foley was confronted by the Republican chairman of the house's page board who ordered him to stop writing the boy and included the emails were "were overly friendly but not sexually explicit."

Democrats apparently were not informed and some Republicans leaders did not learn of the incident until this spring. The story exploded on Friday when a second set of electronic messages to other boys was posted on the Web and they are graphic and they are explicit, Foley resigned and now Democrats are beginning to argue that Republicans have engaged in a cover-up, failing to protect the kids who serve as congressional pages.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. SHERROD BROWN, (D) OHIO: It, again a betrayal of trust that the American people should expect from their leaders. And when leaders of the House of Representatives fail to protect 15 and 16-year-olds in their custody, that's an incredible and outrageous reprehensible breach of trust.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NURENBERG: The house minority leader Nancy Pelosi today said, "Republicans leaders chose to cover it up rather than to protect these children and wrote, central to the investigation is the immediate questioning under oath of the House Republican leadership. "

NEWT GINGRICH, (R) FORMER HOUSE SPEAKER: I don't know how you could have dug much deeper. Foley was directly confronted by the Congressman Shimkus who was in charge of the page program. He promised not to ever do anything again. He was told flatly you cannot have any kind of intimate conversation with these young people. He said I won't do it. I mean, I'm not sure realistically at that point what you do to a member of Congress under those circumstances.

NURENBERG: A Washington group is telling CNN this weekend that over the summer it forwarded to the FBI that first set of electronic messages and it seems clear this weekend that if a criminal investigation has not already begun, Fredricka it soon will.

WHITFIELD: Yes, I think that's right around the corner. You are right. Gary Nuremberg, thanks so much.

Well with just weeks before mid-term elections, many Republicans are trying to distance themselves from the Foley scandal. GOP leaders are also taking on explosive allegations in a new book by journalist Bob Woodward. It's about the White House and the war in Iraq.

"Time" Magazine columnist Joe Klein joins us lives from Chicago to talk about those two hot topics inside the beltway. Although I know it's got folks talking outside the beltway. Let's talk about Foley first. This is just the beginning. Isn't it? It's not just about Foley. It's about a number of other lawmakers, but how deep do you think this goes?

JOE KLEIN, COLUMNIST, "TIME" MAGAZINE: Well, it's hard to say at this point. The key thing, these instant messages that were made available on Friday on the Internet, and whether the Republican leadership knew about those, because those are the communications that were clearly across the line. I think that overly friendly is a pretty accurate description of the first group of messages, that the Republican leadership certainly knew about, so this is --

WHITFIELD: Wouldn't you think that --

KLEIN: Fuzzy.

WHITFIELD: Wouldn't you think even if they observed it was overly friendly that it would be taken to the next level and there would be some sort of watching of him or you know, some kind of close tabs? Wouldn't you think? I mean we're talking about someone who is a leading a caucus to protect children.

KLEIN: Well, that's the key thing. You'd think that they would put him on some kind of leave from director of the children's caucus. I mean, you couldn't write -- you couldn't make this stuff up that the head of the Republican -- congressional children's caucus is caught sending suggestive messages to teenage boys? My god.

WHITFIELD: Yes. And you know, now that many of the Republicans are saying, well, yes, this is very, you know, disappointing and an investigation is under way, is it kind of too little, too late, the damage is already been done?

KLEIN: Well, it's hard to say how this thing is going to roll out. And it's very hard to see how it can go much deeper than it is right now. What you have is a judgment call by the Republican leadership where they failed to make the call. And I think that as that word spreads throughout the country, it's certainly not going to help the Republicans at this point.

WHITFIELD: Now if Foley were to face any sort of criminal charges, we know a criminal investigation is likely under way. Is it your anticipation that perhaps of any of the other lawmakers who knew something about these inappropriate conversations, or contact with the pages that they might, too, be roped into a political investigation and potentially face some sort of accomplice charges if it comes to that?

KLEIN: I don't think it will go that far, and once again, the key question is, whether or not they knew about these instant messages, where Foley did get pretty gross and specific. So if the Republicans did know about those, then you're going to see a lot of heads rolling, starting with the speaker of the house, Denny Hastert. But, you no it's hard to determine, at least at this point, whether they knew about that stuff.

WHITFIELD: All right. Bob Woodward, once again, shaking things up inside the beltway. This time, "State of Denial" timing of the mid- term elections, just five weeks away. The timing is terrible. Particularly for the Bush White House and Republicans as whole. Isn't it?

KLEIN: It's pretty terrific timing for Bob Woodward when it comes to selling books, but we know he's really good at that. I think that this -- look, this has been a terrible week for Republicans. We've seen times when you know, the bottom seems to be falling out for Democrats, all too often over the last decade or so. This is a time when everything is going wrong for Republicans.

Now, as far as the Woodward book is concerned, there are a lot of juicy tidbits in it, but the broad sweep of it has been pretty well established. There's been booked like "Cobra II" that laid out the military side of it and there have been books like "1% Solution" laying out the intelligence side. What Woodward does in this book is put together the military intelligence and political failures of the Bush administration, which are, quite frankly, just astonishing.

WHITFIELD: Wow. So astonishing that we could, as a result, see heads roll?

KLEIN: Well you know, there's a lot of talk now about why Rumsfeld wasn't - Rumsfeld's head wasn't rolled a long time ago. I mean, this guy, starting from June of 2003 totally underestimated purposely underestimated the need for U.S. troops, and the extent of the insurgency in Iraq and it's just amazing. Because this is the central fact of George Bush's presidency.

This is how he's going to be remembered. When you look at the way they dealt with this war, you know, week after week, month after month, to this very day, the level of incompetence in mismanagement's is just startling. Because you can't figure out, how could they not deal with this?

WHITFIELD: Well you have now inspired a more people to pick up that book "State of Denial." Joe Klein of "Time" Magazine thanks so much.

KLEIN: It is always nice to sell other people's books.

WHITFIELD: Yours is next. You're next. Thanks a lot.

Well for more on the controversial Bob Woodward book, tomorrow night, Bob is joining Larry on "Larry King Live" to discuss "State of Denial." you can watch that at 9:00 Eastern right here on CNN. The network with the best political team in the country.

A wasted land, but not a wasted trip. Straight ahead, hear from a photographer who captures these incredible images from Sudan's Darfur region.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: A showdown looming over Darfur. Western nations including the U.S. warning Sudan it must allow deployment of a U.N. peacekeeping force or face possible sanctions, but the government in cartoon is taking a hard line, it continues to block the plan. Hundreds of thousands of people have died in the Darfur conflict. Millions more are displaced and homeless. Ron Haviv is a world- renowned photojournalist who has just returned from the war zone. Good to see you, Ron.

RON HAVIV, WAR PHOTOGRAPHER: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: I'm wondering if the images that you captured in Darfur, if the hope is they might be used in any potential future war crimes, tribunals, just like some of your images did in trials in the Balkans?

HAVIV: Well that is one aspect of what the photography can do, but my greatest hope is that it can just raise awareness right now to tell people what's going on. There's a great grass roots movement that's going on around the world for Darfur and it's important that people are continually reminded of what's going on there every day.

WHITFIELD: And just looking at these pictures, which are beautiful, yet at the same time kind of heart stopping. Did you find it was difficult to just steal a moment? Because everywhere you looked, every angle, there was an image, a profound image.

HAVIV: Well, that's what the situation is in Darfur. People are struggling in their daily life to survive, to do the basic things that we all take for granted, and there are moments that need to be captured, that need to be documented. The world needs to know what's going on.

WHITFIELD: What were some of the things that you kept in mind that you really wanted to make sure people would witness through your photography?

HAVIV: My work in Darfur was in conjunction with UNICEF we were concentrating on what was happening to the children. The children in conflicts are often the most greatly affected. It was important to see what was happening with this generation and remind people that if things aren't done quickly, another generation will fall to the war and will go on and on and on.

WHITFIELD: Even in times of hardship, you talk about children a lot, a lot of times you still see them smiling. They're not smiling in these pictures. It was hard to find anyone that had a reason to smile.

HAVIV: The children are often resilient. But in cases like this, where they have been traumatized, often children are unfortunately being raped, witnessing their parents being killed; it's a very difficult situation. There are aid organizations that are trying very hard to deal with the children, but since the peace agreement, the security situation has deteriated greatly and things are becoming much more difficult for any aid to be going on in Darfur.

WHITFIELD: We pulled images that happened to be your favorites can you explain why? HAVIV: This image of these three girls about to go out of and get firewood. It is a very hazardous journey. No wood to cook the food and they often have to walk for one or two days and risk being raped, this girl here in the foreground with the scarf, she pulled me aside as I was walking through the camp and told me a story how she was raped by some soldiers when she was out looking for firewood.

WHITFIELD: And these three men?

HAVIV: These three men are teachers in rebel-held territory. They're trying to sort of keep daily life going. People understanding the importance of education which is something I find incredibly remarkable a situation like this when people are struggling for their life, but there are people that are trying to carry on, organizations like UNICEF and MSF are trying to help people in any way that they can.

WHITFIELD: Ron Haviv. Powerful pictures. Thanks for helping to educate all of you us.

HAVIV: Thank you very much. >

WHITFIELD: The U.S. is threatening Darfur's leaders with sanctions if he doesn't let U.N. peacekeepers in right now, will that make a difference? Tonight at 10:00 p.m. Eastern, we will get perspective from a professor and journalist, Samantha Power, who has written extensively on the crises in Darfur.

And straight ahead, why is retirement such a difficult time for so many women? We'll have a look from the "Newsroom."

JERAS: I'm meteorologist Jacqui Jeras in the CNN Weather Center with today's allergy report. High concentrations of ragweed and also sagebrush across the southern tier of the country from New Mexico on through Texas in to the Deep South. Also some higher concentrations across the great basin. If you live in the Pacific Northwest, the upper Midwest or the northeast, things are looking better there, but temperatures are going to be heating up this week and so will the pollen count. "CNN Newsroom" will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: When thinking of retirement most people picture a secured, relaxed lifestyle. Many women discover these years are anything but golden. Valerie Morris explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VALERIE MORRIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Gabriella Amorine is having a tough time facing retirement, after raising three children and getting divorced, she entered the workforce for the first time at age 41. Today, despite savings and investments, she is now 65 and says she can't afford to retire.

GABRIELLA AMORINE: It's scary to think about it, because in a year, the cost of living goes higher and higher. If god gives me good health I'll keep working until I'm 80 years old.

MORRIS: Amorine is not alone. A recent retirement risk study by the Society of Actuaries finds most women won't be able to support themselves over a lifetime.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Women earn less. They spend time out of the workforce for care giving and then the biggest issue is that they live longer.

MORRIS: Despite those obstacles experts say women need to take an active approach to saving for retirement.

CINDY HOUSELL, WOMENS INST FOR A SECURE RETIREMENT: You have to think about this early. Live beneath your means, save as much as you can. You need to know what you have, which is one of the biggest mistakes is people not knowing whether they have a retirement benefit. I think it's never too late to start. Social Security pays you 8 percent a year, when you reach the full retirement age, but you don't take your benefit until age 70. So that's a great way of getting a lot more income.

The most important thing is to not throw your hands up in the air and say, I can't do this.

MORRIS: Valerie Morris, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: And straight ahead, in to the wild blue yonder with the only female Thunderbird pilot. Stay with CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Hello, I'm Fredricka Whitfield, and you are in the "Newsroom." New faces of terror on a newly released video tape. Two of the 9/11 hijackers and their message from the grave, straight ahead.

And then who knew what and when? More information on the e-mail scandal on Capitol Hill and the Congressman behind those messages.

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