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Amish School Shooting; Foley Fallout
Aired October 02, 2006 - 13:59 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DON LEMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: One of these boys, I imagine that's -- he -- are among the people who called for help, or at least went to someone so that they could call for help?
AARON MEYER, OWNER OF LOCAL BUGGY COMPANY: As far as I know. I don't know who called for help, but I -- you know, Amish people, they don't have a phone in the house. But, like, I have a phone in the barn, and then it goes to this cell phone so I can answer calls for my business. Well, Amish businesses here and Amish farms have phones, but they're not necessarily in the house.
So somebody ran to the nearest farm or neighbor and called, yes.
LEMON: Yes. Anything else your family members are telling you?
MEYER: Not -- not at this point that I would -- I would think would be appropriate to tell you on the air.
LEMON: Yes. OK. Thank you very much.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: The other top story, of course, is the one scandal -- three investigations going on around former congressman Mark Foley and those sexually explicit e-mails.
Let's listen to the speaker of the House.
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REP. DENNIS HASTERT (R), HOUSE SPEAKER: ... that a former page said in 2003 were vile and repulsive, both to myself and to my colleagues. No one in the Republican leadership nor Congressman Shimkus saw those messages until last Friday when ABC News released them to the public.
When they were released, Congressman Foley resigned. And I'm glad he did. If he had not, I would have demanded his expulsion from the House of Representatives.
The page program is an important part of this institution. It has inspired many generations to enter public service. It is a trust, and as a parent and the speaker of the House, I am disgusted that Congressman Foley broke that trust.
Anyone who had knowledge of these instant messages should have turned them over to authorities immediately so that kids could be protected. I repeat again, the Republican leaders of the House did not have them. We have all said so, and on the record. But someone did have them. And the Ethics Committee, the Justice Department, the news media and anyone who can should help us find out who.
Yesterday I sent a letter to the attorney general requesting that he investigate to what extent any federal laws were violated by Congressman Foley. And also to find out who might have known about the sexually explicit instant messages. I was pleased to read in the newspaper this morning that the FBI has begun to investigate. I also sent a letter to Governor Bush requesting an investigation to determine what state laws were violated, and I'm certain the state of Florida will take my request seriously.
Today I have met with Congressman Shimkus, who is the head of the page board, to discuss what we can do to make sure that this never happens again. This is -- this will not be my last meeting on this issue. I intend to get advice on how we can make this program as safe as possible.
Since I have been speaker, we have moved aggressively to ensure the safety of these kids. We constructed new living quarters with state of art security systems. We have added even more adult supervision. But we obviously need to do more including, providing assistance to these kids after they return home. After all, this vile instant messaging exchange reportedly took place after the page had returned home.
Moms and dads all across America know what a challenge it is to monitor contacts with their kids in this new world of instant communications and cyberspace. It's our challenge as well.
Over the weekend, I asked the clerk to move aggressively to set up a hotline so parents, grandparents, pages, former pages, anyone who has a concern about improper contact, can confidently report improper contact. Our pages are already taught to bring any concerns to their adult supervisor. But this will -- this will be one more opportunity, especially for them after they've left the program.
Before I turn over the microphone to Mr. Shimkus for his statement, let me add this: Congressman Foley duped a lot of people. He lied to Mr. Shimkus and he deceived his in-state paper when they each questioned him. He deceived the good men and women in organizations around the country with whom he worked to strengthen our child predator law. I have known him for all the years he's served in this House, and he deceived me, too -- John.
REP. JOHN SHIMKUS (R,-IL), CHAIRMAN, HOUSE PAGE BOARD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
As the chairman of the House Page Board, I have a responsibility to protect the students participating in the program and former participants. I have been honored to serve in this role, and I don't want to underestimate it. I have been honored to be the chairman of the page board.
We have worked hard to make the page program the best program possible. In fact, the College Board recognized the page program with an award for top honors in the preparation of students for college.
The instant messages Mark Foley reportedly sent to a former page are deplorable. When I learned of these instant messages last Friday from ABC News reports, the very thought of this behavior made me sick. And Mark Foley should be ashamed.
The page program is a valuable part of this institution. Pages have played an important role in Congress operations since the early 1800s. The integrity of this program must be maintained.
In recent years, we have made many improvements, including the construction of a new dorm with state of art security measures. We've also increased adult supervision for them. In the wake of 9/11, we implemented new enhanced transportation and notification systems for the safety of pages. The safety and protection of our pages has been a top priority in these changes and others.
Last week, I personally met with the current House pages. I told them that we are committed to their safety and protection and that we will stay in constant contact with them. In addition, as the speaker said, we are setting up a 1-800 number which can be used to report any concerns and can be used by pages, former and current, and their family members or others with concerns. In the days ahead, I'll be working with the members of the page board and others from both inside and outside of Congress to make sure that the pages are safe both when they are in charge -- when we are in charge and when they return home.
As a father of three boys, I am personally mindful every day of just how difficult it is to protect our children, especially in the world of Internet and text messaging. I am determined to do everything that we can to make sure that this kind of incident will never happen again.
Thank you.
HASTERT: Thank you very much.
QUESTION: Mr. Speaker? Mr. Speaker, when was your staff aware...
PHILLIPS: Speaker Dennis Hastert, also chairman of the house board, Representative John Shimkus. We'll revisit that in just a second with Candy Crowley.
But quickly, I want to take you back to Pennsylvania, where the troopers now are holding a live news conference with regard to the school shooting there in Amish country.
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COMM. JEFFREY MILLER, PENNSYLVANIA STATE POLICE: ... a rundown of what we know at this point. If you can be patient with me, there are a lot of things that we don't have completely nailed down yet. We're still doing a criminal investigation.
We have -- the scene is secure. However, we haven't been able to go in and process everything because we're still removing evidence. There are still things we have to do at the scene.
So I'm going to give you an overview of what we know right now. And then we will open it up for questions.
And if you'd just raise your hand, I'll take your question one at a time. OK?
The initial call that we received -- that the Pennsylvania State Police received came into the Harrisburg Consolidated Dispatch Center at 10:36 hours. The location that was provided to us was the Amish school, the Georgetown Amish School, located at 4876 White Oak Road. It's along White Oak Road between Mine Road in and PA 896 in Lancaster County.
The call came in from a schoolteacher stating a male entered the school and had taken hostages. Now, this school is a small one-room schoolhouse. It's an Amish school.
There were approximately 15 males between the ages of 6 and 13 attending school there, as well as somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 to 12 females also attending school between the ages of 6 and 13. There were also other people in the building, the teacher. There were also some -- what appeared to be teachers aides -- that would be kids that a little older than the students that are attending school there at the facility.
As I said, the call came in at 10:36 hours. Our troopers first responded from PSP Lancaster at 10:45 a.m.
They responded to the scene and began to set up a perimeter around the schoolhouse. And as you can see, the school -- where the school sits, it's in an open area of ground. The actor could see our folks pretty easily from where we were pulling up.
We had a number of troopers there. They immediately began to try and hail the suspect using the P.A. system in the cars. They were unable to communicate directly with him. A very short time later, a call was received at our Consolidated Dispatch Center from the Lancaster County 911 facility stating that they had spoken to the actor, the suspect, who had told them that if the state police don't remove themselves from the premises in 10 seconds he's going to -- he's going to begin shooting people.
That information gave us the cell phone that he was using. One of our negotiators at the scene, a state police SERT, special emergency and response team negotiator who was on scene trying to hail him, immediately tried to make a call to the cell phone at the same time as the information was being relayed to our troopers on the perimeter. We had uniformed patrol troopers and criminal investigators on the scene.
Commensurate with that, within a few seconds of that information being put out to the perimeter and the trooper who was the negotiator trying to call the suspect on the cell phone, they heard shots. Multiple shots in quick succession. We're not certain at this time because we haven't been able to do any of the ballistics work, but it appears, because the suspect had with him an automatic handgun and a shotgun, it appears to us that he was utilizing the automatic handgun at that time in quick succession. Our troopers, who already had removed ballistics shields from the car and were preparing for an assault anyway, in the likelihood that some sort of a communications link could not be established with the -- with the suspect, immediately stormed the residence -- or stormed the schoolhouse.
Now, it's a one-room schoolhouse. All of the doors were blocked. He had taken with him 2 x 6s and 2 x 4s. Had he blocked all the exits from the building. We couldn't get in through the doors.
We had to break the windows. The troopers broke the windows and were able to get in, found the suspect dead on the floor of the schoolhouse. He's still in there now. In addition, we found three -- we had three other students, female students between the ages of 6 and 13, that were shot and killed at the scene.
It appears that the suspect entered the school with the intention of taking hostages. Like I said, he came with 2 x 6s, 2 x 4s and these weapons.
When he initially went into the school, he apparently displayed a handgun. And he was -- he was having some discussion with the class. He was talking about what he had in his hand.
At that time he apparently told the kids to line up in front of the blackboard. At that -- at that moment, he began to -- he saw that he had ties with him like wire ties, as well as flex cuffs. He began to tie the females, the children's, feet together.
He then took the boys -- there was exactly 15 boys there between 6 and 13. He let them leave. He also allowed one female, adult female who was pregnant with a child, to leave. He also allowed three other adult females who had infant children with them to leave.
At the time he let them leave, the teacher was able to get out at that time. And that's why she was able to go and get a phone and dial 911 and alert us of the situation.
As we said, two -- one shotgun and one handgun were found next to the suspect by our troopers who responded into the school. We have, as I said, three students are confirmed dead. There were seven that we know of right now -- there were seven injured victims taken to the following hospitals: Lehigh General Hospital, Hershey Medical Center, Christian Hospital in Delaware, Redding Hospital, and Children's Hospital in Philadelphia.
We know that the individuals that were removed from the school suffered from gunshot wounds. It appears that when he began shooting the victims, these victims were shot execution style in the head.
So a number of the victims that we removed out of here that did not expire on the site were shot in the head, some were shot in the arms. I don't know the exact status of all the rest of the victims that are being treated right now.
I know that one of our troopers was -- was injured slightly with some glass, breaking the glass to get into the -- into the school, but he's going to be OK.
We have identified the suspect. We have a positive I.D. on him.
His name is Charles Carl Roberts IV (ph). He's 32 years of age, and he resides in Bart, Pennsylvania, which is very close to here.
He is a truck driver, drives a tanker truck, works the night shift as a milk delivery person. He takes the tanker -- he takes milk and removes it from the farms and he delivers it to the processing facilities so that it can go out for market.
He worked last night. Everything seemed to go fine. He works basically until about 3:00 in the morning, as I understand it. And he goes home, and then he walks the kids to the bus stop in the morning.
He took his kids to the bus stop at 8:45 this morning. The last time his wife had contact with him was right around 8:45 today when he took the kids to the -- to the bus.
He later tried to contact -- well, actually, let me back up. She had left the residence, she came back home and discovered that there were several notes there that were along the lines of suicide notes to each of the kids. So she read these notes and she tried to contact him right away and was unable to reach him.
At approximately 11:00, he called her. He did not tell her where he was, but he stated that he wasn't coming home and that he had left notes for her and the children to explain his actions.
And he said that the "police are here, but I'm not coming home." He told her he loved her, and that was it.
And shortly thereafter is when the shooting commenced.
At this time I'll open it up to questions. Please just raise your hand.
Yes, sir?
QUESTION: Were you able to read the letters? Can you tell us what was actually in the letters?
MILLER: I haven't seen them, but the letters are, from what I understand from some of the investigators that have seen them, they're rambling discourse. They don't make a lot of sense.
Apparently, he did make a statement to his wife on the phone that he was acting out in a way to achieve revenge for something that happened 20 years ago. And I think that the location, the school, was probably chosen because it provided a close opportunist -- you know, an opportunity to attack where he knew he had young kids. For some reason I believe just based on what we know now at this point -- I mean, we've got a lot of work to do, but from what we know at this point, it seems as though he wanted to -- to attack young female victims, and this is close to his residence. That's the only reason we can figure that he went to the school.
Plus, the school, it's a one-room schoolhouse. You can get to it easily. It's not really secured like maybe another school in a school district would be.
QUESTION: Do you have any idea of what might have happened 20 years ago? Was there any explanation?
MILLER: We have some idea, but I don't -- I don't really want to get into that yet because, I mean, he was not wanted for anything. He was supposed to take a random drug test today, which is just a normal thing as a CDL-rated truck driver in Pennsylvania.
There was -- there was no illegal activity or anything suspected at that point about this individual. It is unknown whether he responded to the location where he was supposed to take that.
He borrowed a pickup truck. I think it was a relative's pickup truck. And we -- we're not sure, but we believe he had the weapons already, you know, so that he could put them in the truck, as well as the 2 x 6s and 2 x 4s.
QUESTION: Was there any contact with mental health officials in his history (INAUDIBLE)?
MILLER: Not that we've been able to discover. And as I said, his wife felt everything was fine until she came home this morning and saw the notes.
Yes, sir?
QUESTION: Colonel, the numbers don't add up, three and seven. We were told there were as many as 17 or more kids in the school.
MILLER: Well, I didn't tell you that. I mean, all told, there were 15 male students that I know of. And there were somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 to 12 female students.
I apologize for not having the exact number, but because of the fact that, unfortunately, there were people that died on the scene, some were moved outside and perished at the scene, others were removed from the scene and perished at the hospital. So I don't have an exact number.
But I can tell you, he split them up, males and females. He let the males go. He let some of the adults go. He bound the female victims out by the blackboard and apparently executed them.
QUESTION: Had he had any prior contact with this school, the students, their families, this community? I mean, you said he drove a milk tanker truck. Did he service this community necessarily? MILLER: Yes, apparently he did. I mean, he lives not too far from here. So I'm sure that he was known to people in the community.
This is a very tight-knit Amish community. And he was, I'm sure, known to people in the community, and he resided here.
His family's from this area, as I understand it. So he wasn't from with outside the area. He would know where the school is, he would know who would be there.
QUESTION: But no specific contact with the school other than today?
MILLER: No, not that -- not that I'm aware of at this point that time.
QUESTION: Any criminal history that you know of? Has this guy been on anybody's radar prior to this?
MILLER: Not that I'm aware of at this point. He's not wanted, and I don't know of any criminal history record information on him.
QUESTION: As best you know, how many people are dead? How many wounded?
MILLER: As best as I know right now, there are three students that are dead. There is the suspect who is dead. We also have, I believe, seven other students that were transported, injured, some with very serious injuries, gunshot wounds to the head, others with gunshot wounds to other parts of their body.
I do not know the status of those seven that were removed from here. We'll get that later, I'm sure.
QUESTION: There were officers out combing the field alongside the meadow, alongside the school. Can you explain to me why they were doing that? What they were looking for?
MILLER: We wanted to make sure that we didn't have any other victims, we didn't have anybody else that exited the premises maybe with a gunshot wound that tried to get away and perhaps stumbled into a cornfield and was in need of assistance.
QUESTION: And you're confident at the present time that you've accounted for all of the students and others who were inside the building at the time?
MILLER: We're confident at this point that we don't have anybody else that's out there in need of assistance. All the people that needed assistance have been triaged and removed from the scene.
A very, very traumatic situation. Some of my troopers -- actually one of the -- one of the girls died in the arms of one of our troopers. So we have -- we have some of our member assistance personnel, as well as we've been -- you know, Lancaster County has been great. We've got their command post down here. We're working with -- we've got a number of obviously state police personnel here. We also have the district attorney's office and their personnel. We have -- the coroner's been here. We have EMS personnel. And everyone's working real well together.
Yes?
QUESTION: Have you been able to confirm they were his weapons? Did he legally own those weapons?
MILLER: I can't confirm that right now. I believe them to be weapons that he possessed and he owned, but I'm not positive at this point.
QUESTION: Colonel, did you say he tried to send a message to the students while he was in the classroom? And do you know what the content was?
MILLER: I just know that when he first came in to the school, it was reported to us that he displayed the handgun. And he spoke to the students.
I don't know exactly what he said. I don't think it made a lot of sense to the people that were present. But obviously, the teacher was immediately alarmed that this -- that this gentleman had walked into the school and he had a gun with him. And fortunately, she was able to get out and call 911. Unfortunately, not all the kids could get out.
QUESTION: Colonel, can you walk us through the time frame again? That (INAUDIBLE) -- you lost me on the time frame.
MILLER: Well, we -- we got the call at 10:36 hours to our CDC. So our troopers were dispatched. We had troopers on the scene at 10:45, nine minutes later.
The troopers that arrived on the scene immediately set up a perimeter. One of the troopers, as I said, was a SERT negotiator. He's trained in the art of negotiating with armed suspects.
He immediately began to try to hail the suspect. At the time he was doing this, using the P.A. -- because again, we didn't have a phone, we didn't know what his cell phone was -- as he's beginning to hail with the P.A., we get word through our CDC from Lancaster County radio that the suspect had called Lancaster County radio and stated to them that if the state police don't remove themselves from the scene he's going to start shooting people in 10 seconds.
But we were able to grab a cell phone number and we started to get that word out on the perimeter. Because as I said, we had ballistic shields fully prepared -- our people were fully prepared to assault the facility if they had to.
The SERT negotiator was then calling -- called on the cell phone to try to reach him, to try to get to him before anything happened, to try to just talk to him, you know, using our protocols. And at the time -- right about the time he's placing the call and word is getting out to the perimeter that he made this threat, the shots begin to be fired.
And our troopers responded. We had approximately 10 troopers responding on foot at that point to assault the building with ballistic shields and weapons. And as I said, the building was secured from the inside.
He had barricaded it with 2 x 6s and 2 x 4s. Desks were piled up. There was no way for our people to really get into the doors. They had to break the windows.
Yes?
QUESTION: Was there -- I'm sorry.
QUESTION: Do you have any reason to believe that Mr. Roberts (ph) had Amish relatives?
MILLER: At this point, I don't know that he does. I don't believe that this -- that this offense, as far as I know right now, I don't believe this has anything to do with the Amish community, but I don't know that for sure. I don't believe that it does, but based -- that's just based on what we know at this moment.
Yes?
QUESTION: Do you have any idea then as to what time he went into the building, what the time frame was? How many minutes he had to get the kids all bound up, or how much time he had to do this?
MILLER: Approximately 45 minutes. He was -- he was in the school, we believe, approximately 45 minutes prior to us getting the call.
So we got the call at 10:36, so probably shortly before 10:00 a.m. this morning is when he entered the school.
QUESTION: Colonel, you touched on this a little bit. How difficult is this because of the children and the other troopers on the scene? What has this been like for you?
MILLER: Well, I'm not worried about -- I mean, it's very difficult for me, but it's 10 times as difficult for the troopers that were the first ones on the scene and the ones that are -- that are doing the investigation.
I mean, I was at the scene. I didn't enter the building. I was able to look in the building. And it's a horrendous crime scene. It's just -- you know -- and as I said, one of the -- one of the children died in the arms of one of our troopers.
QUESTION: Colonel, was this individual charged with any crimes or arrested as a juvenile 20 years ago?
MILLER: I don't have any information on that. As far as I know, I mean, he was not wanted at this time. And I don't believe he has a criminal history from what I've been told this morning.
Yes, sir?
QUESTION: Colonel, do you know anything else or can you tell us anything else about this incident 20 years ago? You think that is the motive?
MILLER: Well, I'm just telling you what has been -- I'm just giving you an overview of what has been told to us in interviews we've done with his wife and some other people that we've talked to this morning. I'm not prepared to go into anything other than to say that on the phone this morning, he made a statement to his wife while he was inside the school -- she didn't know where he was -- that, you know, he couldn't go on any more, the notes will explain it, and he was getting revenge for something that happened 20 years ago.
QUESTION: Have you spoken to his wife personally?
MILLER: No.
QUESTION: And do you know where she is or...
MILLER: Our troopers have spoken to his wife, and obviously we're working with her family. We're working with the Amish families of the children that were killed today.
QUESTION: How many children does he have?
MILLER: Three.
QUESTION: What are their ages?
MILLER: I don't know their ages.
QUESTION: Boys? Girls?
MILLER: I'm not -- I'm not certain of their -- of their -- yes, Dennis (ph)?
QUESTION: Are you -- are you confident as you look at the analysis state police handled it the way they should have handled it?
MILLER: I'm very confident. I mean, our troopers got here within nine minutes. We were fortunate to have as much information as we did from the teacher.
The troopers immediately did what they're trained to do, which is establish a perimeter and immediately try to establish contact with the suspect. Many times if you can talk to a suspect, you can prevent the kind of carnage that we saw today.
Obviously, it didn't work out that way today. And unfortunately, we didn't have enough time to really launch a full-scale assault because we were still trying to hail him when we got word. And by the time we got word and were able to try to relay it to the perimeter, he was already shooting. So our people are running towards the building now. And actually, he did fire at some of our troopers because, as they were responding, he was firing out of the building. And he actually shot out a back window to his truck and another window to the truck he was using as our people were responding. And so they -- they didn't realize that he then turned the gun on himself.
QUESTION: Were all the girls bound up?
MILLER: From what I understand, a majority of them at least were bound in some way, either with -- either with the ties like wire ties or plastic flex cuffs.
QUESTION: And was every girl shot? Because you said there was between 10 and 12 females. So if three were killed and seven were shot or six were shot...
MILLER: I believe just from what we understand it appears that all of the female students were shot. And as well as perhaps an aide, at least one aide, which is a student older than the age of 13 that would be assisting in the classroom, was shot. And I believe the one aide was killed.
QUESTION: Male or female aide?
MILLER: Female. Everybody that died today was female that we know of right now except for the shooter, who was a male.
QUESTION: Two students and one aide?
MILLER: It -- that's what it appears to be confirmed at this moment, two students and one aide. And I apologize if I misstated that. But two students and one aide.
I can't say for sure she's an aide. I'm just -- I'm just saying that it appears to me that she's older than the age of 13, as well as the shooter.
QUESTION: And the ones who were injured, seven injured, were they -- were any aides among the injured?
MILLER: I think perhaps one, but I'm not positive. Again, seven people were removed quickly. We had -- some were flown out of here. I think two were taken out by ambulance. Some were flown out of here.
And we don't know the extent of their injuries, but we do know some of them had gunshot wounds to the head. So obviously it's a very serious situation.
QUESTION: Can you talk about how this teacher -- how did she reach a phone? Obviously, there's no telephones in this schoolhouse. Did she have a cell phone, did she go to a neighbor's? What was that...
MILLER: You know, I'm not sure if she -- I think she went to a residence. But I'm not -- I'm not certain if she ran... UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A neighboring residence.
MILLER: Yes, a neighboring residence. The closest residence that had a phone, she knew where to go. So...
QUESTION: To be precise on timing, when your troopers heard the shots, they started in. Did they actually get to the doors to find them locked shut? Was there gunfire still going on at that point? Did that allow the gunman to continue firing?
Do you know?
MILLER: I don't believe so. From what we know now, I believe that when they encountered the door s-- at the time -- he was firing at them as they started their assault. But he was then at some point -- I mean, they heard rapid fire, multiple shots.
And at some point the shooting stopped, commensurate with the time that they're trying to get in, somewhere around there. I'm not exactly sure. But they -- they realized they couldn't breach the doors.
Obviously, they didn't know if he was secreted against a wall, if he was, you know, taking up a position of defense in there to fire back at them again. So they're trying to get in, but also know where he is.
It wasn't until they broke one of the windows on one of the sides that they were able to see him face down and the shotgun was next to him, a handgun was with him as well.
QUESTION: Colonel, do you believe, then, those shots that you heard, he was at that point shooting at the students, or had the students been shot previously?
MILLER: No, we believe -- we don't believe that he shot any students until what I just told you happened. When the shots began in rapid succession, and our people were assaulting the facility, that's when we believe that he was slooting the students and also firing -- he fired out of the front of the residence -- residence -- the school at least one time with multiple shots towards our troopers, but he was mainly firing at the students that were lined up at the blackboard, as best we can determine.
QUESTION: Colonel, what are the ages of the victims? Do you have that?
MILLER: I don't have that right now. Again, they're somewhere between 6 and 13, except for -- except for if one is an age -- more than 13 years of age.
QUESTION: Have their families been notified?
MILLER: Yes. Yes, their families have been notified from what I understand. We're with them now. QUESTION: Colonel, on the timing, you said police arrived here at 10:45, do you how long it was before the shots actually began, approximately?
MILLER: We responded at 10:45. It was approximately 15 minutes, I believe, 15 minutes or so?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Or less.
MILLER: Yes, 15 minutes or less.
QUESTION: So around 11:00, if not before?
MILLER: Yes, if not before. We're trying to -- the call that -- the wife received a call from him somewhere near 11:00. So sometime between when we set up our perimeter, and we began to try to hail him.
I can tell you from the time our troopers were made aware on the dispatch, that he had told the 911 center that if the troopers don't leave, he would begin to shoot students in ten seconds. He began shooting within seconds. I mean, it was that quick. I mean, we were trying to get the word out to do a coordinated assault, and he's firing at the same time that our negotiator was trying to reach him on the cell phone.
QUESTION: When did that call come in, that 911 call? How far after 10:45?
MILLER: I don't have the exact time on that call. It happened sometime between, obviously, 10:45 and just before 11:00, or right around 11:00, when the actual shooting began.
QUESTION: Were all the people in the school Amish?
MILLER: Yes. Yes, they were all Amish students.
QUESTION: Colonel, so he goes in there with this lumber, and he sets out -- does he tie them up? Let them go? What's the sequence there?
MILLER: As I understand it, he went into the school first with the handgun. He took charge of the students there. At some point, we don't know exactly the order of events, but at some point, he had backed a pickup truck, the pickup truck he had borrowed, up to the front door of the building.
And we believe -- I can't confirm for sure -- but we believe that he had the 2 x 6s and 2 x 4s as well as the long gun, the shotgun, in the back of the truck. He then must have moved that stuff into the school, because he secured -- before he secured the entire premises, he obviously allowed the males, the 15 male students, the one pregnant female adult, and the three adults with infant children to leave.
At that time the teacher was able to get out, at that particular time. I'm not certain if any female students were also able to get out. I don't believe so. I believe it was only the male students at that time.
QUESTION: So then he lets them out, then he secures the place?
MILLER: That's what we believe happened, because he had about 45 minutes to do all of these things. And it wasn't until 45 minutes after the initial entry that the teacher was able to contact 911, and we were able to have troopers on the way.
QUESTION: Sir, if we had had a local police department or resident program down, would things have -- I mean (INAUDIBLE) would that have gone smoother, in your opinion?
MILLER: It's hard to say what would of, could of happened. I mean, I think when you have an individual that is determined to take human life and he walks into -- whether it's an Amish schoolhouse or whether it's a mall, in a suburban, urban area, it's very difficult to prevent that from happening.
I think our troopers got here quickly. And they responded in the way we wanted them to respond. And they -- actually, I hope they saved some lives by getting some people out of there and getting them triaged right away.
Yes?
QUESTION: No evidence of any sexual assault or anything along those lines?
MILLER: Not that I'm aware of at this particular time. I don't believe so. But again, we haven't even removed all the bodies from the scene because it's early on. We're going to be here for quite some time.
Go ahead.
QUESTION:What will happen now with the Amish school, in the days to come?
MILLER: Well, I mean, obviously, this is a horrendous, horrific incident for the Amish community. And they've been -- you know, they're solid citizens in the community, they're good people. You know, they don't deserve -- no one deserves this. But hopefully we're going to be able to work with their families and help them through this. I know the other members of the community and I know the other Amish members of the community will reach out and help the families of those who lost people today.
QUESTION: Was there any extra ammunition, like was he armed for battle?
MILLER: Well, I don't know exactly how much ammunition he had, but obviously he had enough ammunition to lay down a lot of firepower in a short period of time.
QUESTION: You don't know how many shots were fired? MILLER: I don't know how many shots. Again, I mean, we haven't even removed all the bodies. We haven't even removed him, at this point. As we get further on in the investigation, we'll know the answers to those questions.
Yes -- Dennis.
QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE) apparently there were six dead. Is that an erroneous report at this point?
MILLER: No, I think somehow that may have been misconstrued. All we know right now is there are four total people dead, three that were inside the school and one who was the shooter. We don't know, though. And I don't think anyone that's on the scene here knows exactly the status of the seven other gunshot wound victims that were taken from the scene.
QUESTION: Do you have any indication of why he may have singled out the girls at this school?
MILLER: Not that I'm prepared to really talk about right now, because it's just too early on. I mean it's just -- I'm sorry. Apparently there was some sort of an issue in his past that he, for some reason, was -- wanted to exact revenge against female victims. That's all I can tell you right now.
QUESTION: You have some idea of a motive. The suspect is dead. So what is the harm in telling us more about what motivated him, what was the incident 20 years ago?
MILLER: Right. Because I don't know for sure, that's why. I don't want to speculate when I'm not positive. When we know everything, we'll let you know.
QUESTION: You mentioned that he showed the handgun to the students, that he was talking, did he speak during this entire incident? Did he talk to the students? Was he quiet? Do you have any information on that?
MILLER: Yes. We don't know other than what the teacher saw when she was in the classroom. After she left, obviously she wasn't there to report back to us. And obviously, we don't have, you know, we don't have a lot of good intel on what other people saw or heard inside yet, because they're either dead or we're treating them.
QUESTION: But he did talk at the beginning of this incident when the teacher was there, he was talking? He was sharing with the students what he was about to do, it sounds like?
MILLER: Well, he -- all we know is he was talking to the students, and he showed them a handgun, we're told, in the palm of his hand. And I can only guess that he was trying to somehow establish some sort of rapport or control over the classroom prior to him doing the things that he was going to set up there. It was -- it's obvious to us this was a premeditated hostage scenario, where I believe, based on what the investigators have so far, he intended to not to walk out of there alive, but he also intended to kill innocent victims.
QUESTION: Sir?
MILLER: Yes.
QUESTION: He was not Amish, right?
MILLER: He was not Amish.
QUESTION: And what company did he work for?
MILLER: He worked for Northwest Foods.
QUESTION: And did the police fire any shots at the building or at him?
MILLER: Not that I'm aware of at this time. I don't believe so, no.
QUESTION: Will there be another briefing at some point?
MILLER: Yes, we'll try to do another briefing, perhaps around the 6:00 hour. We'll let you know in advance as soon as we have more information that's worthwhile putting out there.
I'll take one more question.
QUESTION: Did anyone inside the building recognize him, know him?
MILLER: I'm not certain of that. I don't know for sure if the teacher recognized him or if any of the other individuals in the school recognized him.
Thank you very much. We'll be back later.
PHILLIPS: A killer with a motive. That's what State Police Commissioner Jeffrey Miller has now told us about the gunman that is dead, the man that opened fire on this small schoolhouse in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania.
These pictures coming to us through one of our affiliates, WTXF. You heard there from the commissioner that the scene is secure now. However, they have not been able to remove the dead bodies due to the investigation that's taking place inside that schoolhouse. The police commissioner says, three dead, seven injured. The county coroner says, six dead. So we're still trying to confirm how many young girls, indeed, lost their lives.
The shooter, Charles Roberts, 32 years old, a truck driver known to be -- deliver milk, possibly to this community.
And what do we know about the motive? Well, apparently he left a rambling suicide letter, according to the commissioner there, that he was seeking revenge for something that happened to him 20 years ago. He would have been 12 years old. And he said that something happened. This is actually -- you're seeing this is one of the victim's homes?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shooter's house.
PHILLIPS: This the shooter's house. OK. I'm being told now this is a live picture of where Charles Roberts lived, father of three. We have tried to make contact with his wife, have not been able to get in touch with her, obviously not answering the phone at this time. But this is where the shooter lived. These pictures, coming to us from our affiliate WPVI.
So what had happened was he left a rambling suicide note, according to the commissioner there, at his home for his wife to find and read, also writing personal notes to his three children, saying that something happened 20 years ago. He was seeking revenge. It involved females.
And the commissioner believed he picked this schoolhouse for a reason, because he knew there would be young girls in that schoolhouse. Apparently he started explaining to the children what he was going to do. He told all the male students, young boys to leave the classroom. He allowed for a pregnant female to leave, and a couple other adults that were in there that had children, he asked them to leave.
Then he took those young girls, tied them up, told them to face the blackboard, and he killed them execution style. The commissioner saying a number of those young girls shot in the head.
The teacher was able to get out. The teacher is the one that called 911. As you know, there in the Amish, they don't have electricity. But she knew exactly where to go to find a phone to call for help. And that's when five helicopters, twelve ambulances responded to the scene in addition to law enforcement.
Apparently, according to the commissioner, they tried to negotiate with the gunman. They were able to have contact with him for a short period of time. He had a cell phone. They tried calling him on the cell phone. They tried everything they could.
Apparently, according to the commissioner, they tried to negotiate with the gunman. They were able to have contact with him for a short period of time. He had a cell phone. They tried calling him on the cell phone, they tried everything they could to try to negotiate with him.
He told one of the students that was able to get out, possibly it might have been the teacher, the commissioner was saying, that if he saw the troopers moving in, he was going to start firing.
Within nine minutes, those troopers were there. They tried to negotiate with him. The next thing they knew, they were hearing gunshots.
Now, you can see that was a shot of the gunman's home. You can see how close it is to the scene of the crime, walkable distance. So he knew the students that would be in this school. He knew what time they were in school. The commissioner saying he had a plan. He showed up with 2x6 and 2x4 boards so he could block the entrances to that schoolhouse so if police tried to get in, they would not be able to do so. And it wasn't until he opened fire that police moved in, bashing open the windows, getting inside, and that's when they found the gunman dead and also the children.
The investigation continues.
Mike Brooks, former law enforcement, one of our security analysts with us now on the phone. He's been following all the latest details that have been coming out of this.
Mike, what do you think? Do you think that motive was about seeking revenge for something that happened 20 years ago? This is what he writes in this rambling suicide note.
MIKE BROOKS, FRM. LAW ENFORCEMENT: It sounds like revenge has something to do with young girls Kyra, from what the superintendent was saying. I can't imagine what a horrendous scene that is. And from the description of it, of the superintendent, it really is.
And the guy had 45 minutes inside of that school before the state police were called to do what he had to do, tying up the girls, lining up against the board, tying them there with wire ties and plastic flex cuffs. And then went out and got 2x4s and 2x6s to barricade all the doors, to keep police from getting inside and overturning desks.
And it just sounds like a horrible scene. And when the state troopers were trying to make entry into there, they were blocked by this and had to use an alternate breech point, and had to go through the windows.
And that's tough to do. But at least they had a negotiator who was there, a trained negotiator who was there trying to negotiate with him. But was unable to talk to him.
He was using a P.A. system from his cruiser and was not able to make any kind of contact with this man.
But, you know, they did the best they could to try to prevent this incident.
LEMON: Mike, no doubt. No doubt that given all the information that police officers talking about, the police commissioner talked about there, you've got the 2x4s, no doubt that this is premeditated.
You've got 2x4s, you've got wire ties, you've got flex cuffs, you've got a man who went in who also left a note. And I'm just sort of hearkening back to last week when the gunman went into the school in Colorado and took all the people hostage and then also let the males go and kept the females. What is this? What's going on here?
BROOKS: You know, Don, each one of them, you have to look at it as an individual motive. The one in Colorado, they still haven't really been able to nail down the motive of why he separated out the males and females in that particular case.
But in this case, we're getting apparently -- the superintendent says that they were getting -- investigators are looking towards the motive that something happened over 20 years ago.
LEMON: What I'm saying, Mike, though in this one, for some reason, I don't know, it just seems too weird. It doesn't seem like a coincidence that this guy sort of had the same motive and had the same modus operandi as the other person last week.
Maybe I'm thinking he got some of the information because of what happened there. It just seems too similar to me. It seems sort of the same situation even though in this one we're not hearing about a sexual assault. But it doesn't seem like a coincidence to me.
BROOKS: You have to look at all these things, Don, and say why are these things happening? There could have been something happening. And I'm going to be very -- I'm going to look forward to talking to some of my criminal psychologist friends to find out what they're thinking about this by taking a look at this.
But just from my background, you know, was there something he was watching from that incident that may have triggered this and then triggered that response back to 20 years ago? And then he acted out on that response? That's a very, very good question.
And I'm sure that investigators and psychologists will be taking a look at this and talking to his wife and trying to find out exactly what did happen 20 years ago that may have triggered this man who may have had, you know, an altered mental status and something was triggered. Because there are certain events that can trigger your mind to do certain things.
LEMON: If you're talking about a crime of opportunity, you look at the proximity of the shooter's home...
BROOKS: Right.
LEMON: ...to the school, it was certainly -- he certainly he had the opportunity. And this may have seemed like, oh, you know, that's what this guy did, so maybe I can do something.
But when you think about business relationship, apparently if he's delivering milk in this community, he obviously had a business relation -- or may have had a business relationship with someone in the community or with the person he's trying to seek revenge on that happened 20 years ago. That may very well have lent to a motive.
BROOKS: It could. And you -- he was not Amish himself. But all the girls he killed apparently were Amish. And you know, does that play into the scenario and the motive, too? That's going to be a question that investigators are looking into, I'm sure.
But, you know, still the superintendent said it's still early on. A lot of questions still to be answered. And I'm sure that they're going to do the best they can to try to nail down the solid motive from talking to his wife, his friends, his associates to find out exactly what happened 20 years ago. You know, maybe it's articulated even better in those letters but they're not letting us know right now.
LEMON: Here's a question that I have. I don't know if it's for you or just anyone out there -- I think everyone is asking -- how do you drop your three kids off at the bus stop and moments later go into a school with kids I would imagine who are much the same age as your kids and then take them hostage and open fire?
You know, I will pose that question to you, being a security expert. I'm sure you've seen this. Even if you have kids wouldn't stop you, I would imagine, Mike Brooks, as we see here, wouldn't stop you from committing this horrific act?
BROOKS: No. There's something -- and he had it very well planned out. I mean, this was a premeditated hostage scenario that was going through his mind.
He got off work last night. He had to be thinking about this and had to be knowing his plan, putting together his plan. And you know, did he have a history of depression? You know, had he any other mental illnesses before? You know, he was supposed to take a drug test just as normal cause that truck drivers have to do today.
There's something that happened within the last 24 to 48 hours that precipitated him and got his mind in motion to put together this plan.
You know, as we're seeing from pictures, his house is not that far. So he had to -- as part of his plan, he had to borrow this truck to put all the materials inside of it to take it to this school. What triggered that -- what triggered his mind to do that then? That remains to be seen.
PHILLIPS: Our security analyst Mike Brooks. Mike, thanks so much.
We're going to continue to follow this story still breaking out of Pennsylvania. We know more now thanks to the state police commissioner, Jeffrey Miller, the shooter, Charles Roberts, 32-years- old, writes a rambling suicide note, something that happened to him 20 years ago which caused him to want to act out this way and attack this school.
We'll have more on this story plus working a number of other stories for you. So stay with us.
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PHILLIPS: We're learning more now on the schoolhouse shooting that happened in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania. We know who the gunman is now, the gunman that is now dead. He actually took his own life after shooting children execution style in the small schoolhouse. Charles Roberts is his name, 32 years old. Believe it or not, father of three kids. Left a rambling suicide note, according to the state police commissioner, that when he was 12 years old, something happened.
He was seeking revenge. That's why he picked this school and he asked for all the male students to leave, the young female students to stay inside. And that's when everything went down from that point. One teacher was able to escape, called 911. When those male students were let out of that schoolhouse, due to this gunman, his demands, at that point there was some negotiation, attempted on behalf of the state troopers, via a cell phone. But it was too late. State Police Commissioner Jeffrey Miller held a news conference just a few minutes ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COMM. JEFFREY MILLER, PENNSYLVANIA STATE POLICE: As I said, one shotgun, one handgun, were found next to the suspect by our troopers who responded into the school. As I said, three students are confirmed dead. There were seven that we know of right now, there were seven injured victims taken to the following hospitals, Lehigh General Hospital, Hershey Medical Center, Christian Hospital in Delaware, Reading Hospital, and Children's Hospital in Philadelphia.
We know that the individuals that were removed from the school suffered from gunshot wounds. It appears that when he began shooting the victims, these victims were shot execution style, in the head.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Charles Roberts, once again, the gunman now dead, 32 years old, lived right next to that schoolhouse after leaving a rambling suicide letter, detailing exactly what he was going to do, saying he was seeking revenge for something that happened to him 20 years ago when he was only 12-years-old.
We can tell you that the police commissioner is coming forward, saying three children are dead, seven injured, but the county coroner has been quoted as saying six are dead. So we're trying to track down confirmation on those that were killed in this schoolhouse shooting. Police commissioner says he doesn't believe this has anything to do with the Amish community, that this shooter picked a school because he knew there were young female students in there, and this was tied to something that he was angry about, something that happened in his childhood back when he was 12-years-old.
Live pictures now of one of the symbols of the Amish community and that is the horse and buggy. As you now they live a very simple life, no electricity, no phones. They travel by horse and buggy. They walk everywhere. And that is their objective, is to live a simple life. This is the home right here of the shooter, not far from that schoolhouse. You can see investigators there on the scene, marking it as a crime scene as well. You can see the tape, reporters being asked to leave the front lines of the home there.
As you know, as the story continues to develop, everyone's going to be wanting to talk to that wife, to try and get inside. Police have been talking to her. She's not answering her phone. No doubt a very difficult time for her, her three children and also all those affected in that schoolhouse shooting. We're going to stay, of course, on top of this story. And as we get more details on the confirmed dead, we will bring them to you.
Meanwhile, the Amish culture has been portrayed in movies and even a recent reality show called "Amish in the City." And we've got a few facts with the Amish and their lifestyle. There are more than 25,000 old order Amish people living there in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania. While they're commonly referred to as Pennsylvania Dutch, they actually have German heritage. They speak three languages, a German dialect at home, High German at church and English to non-Amish people.
The Amish emphasize humility, family, community and separation from the world, part of that separation includes a reluctance to accept new technologies. Each church district decides what will be accepted. They drive horses and buggies. You see the live pictures there, rather than cars and do not have electricity in their homes. However, they do accept some forms of electricity. For example, they will use batteries to power the lights on the back of their buggies, and they do accept the use of some machinery, like tractors, however they will not use rubber tires on those tractors.
We're going to continue to talk more about the Amish community, the community that was affected by this gunman, 32-year-old Charles Roberts taking the lives of three children, execution style, possibly more. We're working the details. We're going to take a quick break. More from THE CNN NEWSROOM straight ahead.
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LEMON: We're live in THE CNN NEWSROOM with the nation's third deadly shooting in less than a week, this one happening in Amish country, in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, 55 miles west of Philadelphia.
Just a short time ago the police commissioner there in Pennsylvania held a briefing, saying that this was basically a crime of opportunity. The gunman living not far from a school where he went in this morning and took children hostage. There were fifteen males in the room, ten to twelve females. He let all the males go, kept the females and sadly, according to the police commissioner, he shot them execution style in the head.
We're getting conflicting reports about those who were killed. We were told by the police commissioner that three of the children, the female students have died and also the gunman, but according to the coroner, the coroner says at least six people have died from this incident. Now apparently, this shooter was disgruntled about something that happened 20 years ago and he was taking revenge on it.
He left a suicide note, several rambling notes, according to the commissioner this morning, which his wife found, saying that he wanted to act out in a way that would be what he wanted for revenge. He wanted to go to a school and take some kids hostage. Apparently he called his wife at 11:00.
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