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The Situation Room
Former Congressman Mark Foley's Lawyer Says He Was Molested As A Teenager By Clergyman; Should House Speaker Dennis Hastert Resign?; Foley Scandal Hot Topic On Talk Radio; President Bush Standing by Hastert; Before Charles Roberts Shot 10 Schoolgirls Revealed Deepest, Darkest Secret To Wife; Possible Causes and Treatment for Sexually Deviant Congressman;
Aired October 03, 2006 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you, Lou. And to our viewers, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM where new pictures and information are arriving all the time. Standing by CNN reporters across the United States and around the world to bring you tonight's top stories.
Happening now, new bombshells tonight in the scandal rocking Capitol Hill -- Mark Foley's lawyer says his client was molested as a teenager. Is that a defense of the former congressman's computer contacts with an underage boy? It's 7:00 p.m. in Washington, where more stunning messages reportedly sent by Foley are surfacing.
Also this hour, the House speaker feels the sting of the Foley scandal. Will Dennis Hastert be pressured to quit his leadership post? We're following calls for his resignation and the possible impact on Election Day.
And North Korea sets off global alarm bells with its new nuclear test threat. It's 8:00 a.m. Wednesday in North Korea. We'll take you to the heavily armed border, where tensions could explode.
Wolf Blitzer is off today. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Up first tonight, the day's dramatic announcement about Mark Foley -- the former congressman embroiled in an increasingly lurid scandal. Just a short while ago Foley's lawyer said the Florida Republican was molested by a clergyman when he was a teenager and he disclosed for the first time that Foley is gay. His new claims come four days after Foley quit Congress amid reports about his online communications with a former congressional page.
CNN's John Zarrella has more from West Palm Beach, Florida -- John.
JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: John, we were certainly promised big news, the bombshell, and that's what we got. David Roth, Mark Foley's attorney, saying that Mark continues his rehab in an undisclosed facility, but he said the biggest news, that Mark Foley is not using this as an excuse for the e-mails that he sent but that as a young teenager he was abused.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DAVID ROTH, ATTORNEY FOR MARK FOLEY: Mark does not blame the trauma he sustained as a young adolescent for his totally inappropriate e-mails and IMs. He continues to offer no excuse whatsoever for his conduct. As is so often the case with victims of abuse, Mark advises that he kept his shame to himself for almost 40 years. Specifically, Mark has asked that you be told that between the ages of 13 and 15 he was molested by a clergyman.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZARRELLA: Roth would not go into any specifics, would not say which faith that clergyman might have belonged to, would not say any details about these molestations other than they allegedly occurred between the ages of 13 and 15 years old.
He said that perhaps, only perhaps, that when Mark Foley finishes his treatment program, which Roth said would last at least 30 days, that at that point he hoped that Mr. Foley would be here in this same park, giving us more details on what happened those nearly 40 years ago. What Roth did do, though, was he continued to vehemently defend Mark Foley, saying that Mr. Foley is absolutely not a pedophile.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROTH: There was absolutely never any inappropriate sexual contact with any minor. He has acknowledged full responsibility for the inappropriate e-mails and inappropriate IMs. There never has been any sexual contact with a minor, and any suggestion that Mark Foley is a pedophile is false, categorically false.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZARRELLA: Now, when asked why Mr. Foley never in the past talked about this abuse, Mr. Roth said simply, "shame, shame, shame." That's why he kept the abuse to himself. Mr. Roth also said that Mr. Foley asked him very specifically to tell everyone publicly that quote, "he is gay." Mr. Foley entered the rehab treatment facility last Friday evening, according to Mr. Roth, will be there, as I mentioned, about 30 days, and that he did this, is what Roth says, as a life decision. It was not a strategic decision -- John.
KING: John Zarrella for us in Florida's 16th congressional district, a dramatic day. John, thank you very much. And there may be new evidence tonight against Foley in the investigation of his contacts with underage boys. More instant messages reportedly sent by Foley have surfaced.
Our Brian Todd is here with the shocking details -- Brian.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right, John, those new details about the former congressman based on our contacts with former pages and on other reporting about alleged exchanges by Mr. Foley.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TODD (voice-over): New information tonight about Mark Foley's alleged contacts with former pages. According to ABC News, Foley had Internet sex with a former page just before going to vote on the House floor in 2003. ABC says its transcripts of those exchanges were provided by former pages.
A different former House page tells CNN he was warned early on about Foley. Mark Beck-Heyman didn't want to go on camera. He says the first warnings about Foley were general in nature and he says it wasn't long in that summer of 1995 before Foley introduced himself and got friendly.
Foley asked the page quote, "Want to go out for some ice cream?" Beck-Heyman says he turned that down because he was working and says Foley later told him they should get together in San Diego the following summer. Beck-Heyman says they never did. Beck-Heyman was a Republican then but is now a Democrat.
Beck-Heyman says he didn't think much about Foley's approaches to him at the time but they seem more significant in retrospect. CNN contacted several other former pages to ask if they got any warning about Foley or other congressmen. Some said they heard gossip, but...
SAMUEL BURKE, FORMER CONGRESSIONAL PAGE: They never said stay away from this congressman, never.
KARA FRANK, FORMER CONGRESSIONAL PAGE: He was very nice to us. And again, I never got that creepy feeling from him or anything, and I never heard any stories. So to hear this, I mean it's just very shocking.
TODD: Another former page tells CNN quote, "A supervisor mentioned Foley was a bit odd or flaky and did not connote by tone or otherwise that he should be avoided."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TODD: A senior federal law enforcement official tells CNN FBI agents are trying to track down former pages to question them about Foley and to make sure the electronic communications attributed to him are authentic -- John.
KING: Brian Todd for us on the lurid details. Brian, thank you very much. And tonight House Speaker Dennis Hastert is under fire because of the Foley scandal. He's ignoring one powerful new call for him to quit his leadership post. However, the speaker can't ignore how this scandal may cost his party conservative support come Election Day.
Here's our congressional correspondent Dana Bash -- Dana.
DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, the speaker spent all day today trying to call his friends and allies, trying to shore up support, making a few simple points. One is that he did nothing wrong and also that a month before Election Day Republicans should keep their aim and their fire at Democrats, not at him.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BASH (voice-over): The headline rocked Washington. "Resign, Mr. Speaker," is how this conservative newspaper put it. The "Washington Times" editorial slammed House Speaker Dennis Hastert for not doing enough to stop Mark Foley, saying "either he was grossly negligent for not taking the red flags fully into account or he deliberately looked the other way." That gave voice to the fury of many conservatives who say GOP leaders put politics over morality.
RICHARD VIGUERIE, CONSERVATIVE ACTIVIST: The alarm bells should have gone off from one end of the Capitol to the other, and it's just no excuse for the entire Republican leadership to have turned a blind eye. It looks like they just wanted to cover this up until after the election.
BASH: Not so, said the House speaker, who launched a major counteroffensive to head off an all-out revolt. CNN is told he was burning up the phone lines to fellow Republican congressmen, asking for their support and calling talk radio hosts around the country, trying to convince their conservative listeners to keep faith in his leadership and blame Democrats for stirring up the issue.
VOICE OF REP. DENNIS HASTERT, (R-IL) SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: There are some people that try to tear us down. We are the insulation to protect this country. And if they get to me, looks like that they could affect our election as well.
BASH: But behind the scenes, intense anxiety inside the GOP House leadership. House Majority Leader John Boehner walked such a fine line trying to defend his own actions he seemed to contradict himself. In the morning he was critical of Hastert.
VOICE OF REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH), HOUSE MAJORITY LEADER: I believe I talked to the speaker and he told me it had been taken care of. And in my position in his corner it's his responsibility.
BASH: But hours later he wrote a letter to the "Washington Times" defending the GOP leadership and said Democrats were behind the revelations about Foley, timed to release right before the election, writing, "if this evidence was withheld for political purposes, one can only speculate as to how many additional children may have been endangered before this information was finally revealed."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: Now, no Republican lawmakers so far have called for the speaker's resignation, but some, John, have walked right up to the line, especially some in really tough re-election campaigns right now. For example, Chris Chocola in Indiana, he said that if the leadership acted inappropriately they will lose his support. Not only members in tough races but members all over the country we talked to today are really hearing about this from their constituents, both Foley's actions and also the way the Republican leadership handled it -- John.
KING: And so then, Dana, given that I assume this latest blockbuster from the Foley defense team, saying he was molested as a teenager, the last thing Republicans want, whether it's the speaker or one of those nervous Republicans out in a tough race.
BASH: You know that's right. I mean you know having even more information out there drip, drip, drip, is the last thing they want. And frankly, I think some Republicans up here and around the country will tell you at this point trying to make Mark Foley a sympathetic figure isn't going to work politically.
KING: Dana Bash for us tracking all the political fallout on Capitol Hill. Dana, thank you very much. And Jack Cafferty joins us now from New York -- Jack.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: John there are sex scandals and there are sex scandals. Consenting adults in everyday life choose to do all kinds of things that probably aren't taught in Sunday school. Extramarital sex, gay sex, fetishes, you name it. And for the most part nobody much cares. What makes the Foley story different is he held himself up as a paragon of virtue as he championed the guarding of young people from sexual predators while at the same time preying on a 16-year-old boy.
The reason it's become such a big story is the boy was a congressional page and apparently some of Foley's activities were known to the leadership in the House of Representatives, specifically House Speaker Dennis Hastert. When Hastert was asked if he knew about Foley sending suggestive e-mails to underage pages, Hastert said he couldn't remember. Say what? You can't remember?
People are so outraged by the violation of trust that America's families place with these people when they send their kids to Washington to learn about our government that a loud cry is going up for more heads than just Foley's to roll. And the smart money is betting Foley will not only cost Republicans control of Congress in the midterm elections but will also cost Dennis Hastert his job.
Here's the question -- should Dennis Hastert resign as the Speaker of the House over the Foley scandal? E-mail your thoughts to CaffertyFile@CNN.com or go to CNN.com/CaffertyFile. This ain't over, John.
KING: Not over by any stretch. We'll look forward to the answers. Jack Cafferty, thank you very much.
And still to come here, Mark Foley burning up the airwaves. Find out what conservative talk show hosts are saying about this scandal on Capitol Hill.
Plus, President Bush weighs in for the first time. Hear what he has to say about the former congressman.
Also, triggering global alarm bells, North Korea says it will conduct a nuclear test. We'll take you to the DMZ, where more than a million troops stand ready for war.
And disturbing new details are emerging in the Amish school shootings that left five girls and the gunman dead. Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: More now on our top story, the spreading scandal surrounding former congressman Mark Foley and explicit Internet messages to a former congressional page. It has talk radio buzzing today.
CNN's Peter Viles is live for us in Los Angeles with the details of just what's being said -- Pete.
PETER VILES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, conservative talk show hosts generally supportive of Speaker Dennis Hastert today but there is a great deal of concern about this issue not just among those talk shows show hosts but among their millions of listeners.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And if Hastert knew anything about it, it's just going to give the Democrats the fuel that they need to burn down the party. And I hope it doesn't wind up in a Republican meltdown.
VILES (voice-over): On conservative talk radio cause for concern. How will the Foley scandal play out? Listen to this exchange between conservative host Bill Bennett, also a CNN contributor, and his guest, Republican insider Vin Weber.
BILL BENNETT, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Should Hastert resign?
VIN WEBER, REPUBLICAN ACTIVIST: I don't know.
BENNETT: Oh, that's a close one. I can hear in your voice...
WEBER: Well...
BENNETT: ... it's a close call.
WEBER: I love Denny Hastert. He's a good man. And I'm not ready to say he should resign, but this is a big -- boy, I've been talking to members who are all on the defensive about this yesterday.
VILES: After Foley, embattled House Speaker Dennis Hastert was the most talked about politician on talk radio Tuesday.
VOICE OF MARK TAYLOR, FROM "THE DENNIS PRAGER SHOW": When I look at in our government, Tom, there are good people and there are bad people. They pretty much -- I think for the most part reflect how we are in society. There are good people and there are bad people. I think Hastert's a good person.
VILES: The man who pretty much invented conservative talk radio was urging his listeners to support speaker Hastert and the Republican Party.
RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: If you want to say good-bye to the Supreme Court actually having a fundamental change in its ideological orientation, if you want to say good-bye to all that, then fine, you go ahead and you encourage Hastert to resign and anybody else you think ought to resign and then you encourage Republicans to lose.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VILES: Speaker Hastert was a guest today on the "Rush Limbaugh Show", again defending the way he has handled this scandal but also demonstrating, John, that he knows just how important conservative talk radio is to the Republican base -- John.
KING: Peter Viles, a fascinating look and worth keeping an ear to the talk radio as this story plays out. We'll see if that -- the tune of those hosts change much. Pete Viles, thank you very much in Los Angeles.
President Bush says he's disgusted by Mark Foley's behavior but he has nothing but supportive words today for the speaker of the house. Let's check in with our White House correspondent Elaine Quijano, who's with the president today in Stockton, California.
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: John, President Bush said he was dismayed and shocked to learn about what he called unacceptable behavior by Mark Foley. The president made his comments here in Stockton, California after a congressional fund-raiser. Now, the president added that he was disgusted by the revelations and disappointed.
But the president also made clear that he supports House Speaker Denny Hastert, the president saying that he supports Hastert's call for an investigation into the Foley matter. The president said the investigation should be thorough and said that any violation of the law should be prosecuted.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Now I know Denny Hastert. I meet with him a lot. He is a father, teacher, coach, who cares about the children of this country. I know that he wants all the facts to come out and he wants to ensure that these children up there on Capitol Hill are protected. I'm confident he will provide whatever leadership he can to law enforcement in this investigation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUIJANO: The president's decision to support Hastert comes at a critical time in the congressional campaign, when the White House had been hoping to draw distinctions between Republicans and Democrats on the issue of national security. Now the president is finding himself having to respond to the news of the day, trying to quell concerns over Republican leadership just five weeks before congressional midterm elections -- John.
KING: Elaine Quijano traveling with the president out in California today.
Still to come -- the scandal on Capitol Hill takes a new twist. The disgraced congressman now claims he was molested as a teen by a clergyman, an explanation or a copout? Dr. Drew Pinsky joins us live from Los Angeles.
And inside the mind of a child killer, the motive and madness behind the shootings at an Amish school. Stay right here. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: New details are emerging tonight about that rampage at an Amish school in Pennsylvania that claimed the lives of five young girls. Tonight officials are trying to piece together the entire story and the details they're uncovering about the gunman are disturbing to say the least.
CNN's senior correspondent Allan Chernoff is in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania -- Allan.
ALLAN CHERNOFF, CNN SR. CORRESPONDENT: John, police believe they may have uncovered a possible motive in the horrific schoolhouse shooting, trouble deep, deep inside of a man who on the surface appeared to be an ordinary father.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHERNOFF (voice-over): Minutes before milkman Charles Roberts shot 10 schoolgirls and killed himself Monday, he revealed his deepest, darkest secret to his wife, Marie, during their final phone conversation. Twenty years ago, he claimed, he had sexually molested two of his very young relatives when they were 3 or 4 years old, a claim that police are still working to confirm.
As he held the schoolgirls at gunpoint, Roberts told Marie where his suicide notes to his wife and three children were located and that he would not be coming home. In this letter to Marie, Roberts wrote he had dreamed for two years of molesting children again. Police say Roberts may have planned out to carry out his dreams at the Amish schoolhouse.
COMM. JEFFREY MILLER, PENNSYLVANIA STATE POLICE: It's very possible that he intended to victimize these children in many ways prior to executing them and killing himself.
CHERNOFF: Roberts also spoke in the note to his wife about his anger that his first-born daughter, Elise, died only 20 minutes after her birth.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Roberts was angry with God for taking Elise, as outlined in his suicide note, stating that it had changed his life forever and he was not the same since it happened. Roberts expressed hate towards himself and towards God.
CHERNOFF: Police quickly arrived at the schoolhouse, and authorities say Roberts panicked and began shooting the girls execution style.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHERNOFF: Five of those girls are dead, and the other five are fighting for their lives tonight in local hospitals -- John.
KING: Allan Chernoff on the scene for us and a gruesome scene it is. Allan, thank you very much.
Just ahead, more on the stunning new claims concerning former Republican Congressman Mark Foley. Foley's lawyer says his client was molested as a teen and is gay. We'll bring you the latest.
And will they or won't they? Right now that's what many are asking about North Korea as that nation threatens to conduct a nuclear test. Just how is the United States responding? Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: To our viewers, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM where new pictures and information are arriving all the time. Happening now, the attorney for Mark Foley says Foley was molested by a member of the clergy between the ages of 13 and 15, and the attorney says Mark Foley is gay. But the former Republican congressman's attorney also says his client never had sexual contact with a minor.
Also, it's only October 3, but officials say 12 American troops have died in Iraq already this month. The U.S. military announced today that seven of those deaths occurred yesterday in Baghdad.
And an all-time high -- the Dow Jones industrial average knocked out the record set six years ago, closing at 11,727. Part of it was due to a nearly four percent slide in oil prices.
Wolf Blitzer is off today. I'm John King. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
A dramatic new bombshell in a fast-moving story with major implications for the balance of power in Washington -- an attorney for Mark Foley now says the disgraced former congressman was molested as a teenager by a clergyman. We'll hear from noted therapist Dr. Drew Pinsky shortly.
CNN's Candy Crowley is tracking the political fallout here in Washington. But for the latest on tonight's dramatic announcement from Foley's attorney let's go straight to CNN's John Zarrella live for us in Florida -- John.
JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: John, David Roth, Mark Foley's long-time friend and attorney, did not offer any details. He did not say which faith this clergyman might have belonged to. And he said that Mark Foley was not using it as an excuse for his behavior. But he said that Mark Foley is finally coming out and saying that as a young teenager he was molested.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROTH: Mark does not blame the trauma he sustained as a young adolescent for his totally inappropriate e-mails and IMs. He continues to offer no excuse whatsoever for his conduct. As is so often the case with victims of abuse, Mark advises that he kept his shame to himself for almost 40 years. Specifically, Mark has asked that you be told that between the ages of 13 and 15 he was molested by a clergyman.
Mark will address this issue further upon his release from treatment. He very much wanted to release the name of the individual, the church affiliation, and other details, but was advised by civil counsel to delay that decision pending his completion of treatment after Mark has had an opportunity to consult with counsel. Mark has also asked me on his behalf to thank the literally thousands of ordinary citizens, as well as friends and others who have conveyed their prayers, love, and best wishes to him.
Finally, Mark Foley wants you to know that he is a gay man. Let me make something perfectly clear. There was absolutely never any inappropriate sexual contact with any minor. He has acknowledged full responsibility for the inappropriate e-mails and inappropriate I.M.s. There never has been any sexual contact with a minor, and any suggestion that Mark Foley is a pedophile is false, categorically false.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZARRELLA: Roth said that Foley actually entered a rehabilitation facility on Friday evening, that Roth got a call from Foley at 3:30 in the afternoon, and that Roth says he was there with Mark Foley when Foley entered that rehabilitation facility. Again, Roth refused to say which facility it is or where it is, even if it's in the state of Florida. We do not know that either.
He says that, again, reiterating that perhaps Mark Foley, some 30 days from now, will be here in this park to give us more details on what happened to him nearly 40 years ago. John?
KING: John Zarrella for us live. A dramatic day in West Palm Beach, Florida. John, thank you very much.
And exactly five weeks before election day the Mark Foley scandal may be threatening fellow Republicans in a way some Democrats can only dream of. Will the latest revelations from Foley's attorneys change anything politically? Let's bring in our senior political correspondent Candy Crowley.
Wow, the attorney comes out and he says he was molested as a child and he publicly discloses something most people in Washington have known for some time, that Mark Foley is gay. Does it make any difference to the political fallout?
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: In that it keeps -- gives the story at least another day. It would have gotten that, but now we're just taking out more time, with five weeks to go, they don't want to be talking about this. They have to talk to every reporter in their state or in their district, answer the question do you want Speaker Hastert to leave? What do you think -- did you know about Foley? So they have to go through all of that.
This just moves it for another day and takes up the agenda that they would much rather move to, the economy, to the war on terror.
KING: And the Democrats don't want to let them off this subject. I think we have a snippet of an ad. Patty Wetterling is the Democratic candidate for a Minnesota House seat. She popped this ad up today pretty quickly. Minnesota's a long way from Florida, but let's listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It shocks the conscience. Congressional leaders have admitted covering up the predatory behavior of a Congressman who used the Internet to molest children. For over a year they knowingly ignored the welfare of children to protect their own power. For 17 years Patty Wetterling has fought for tougher penalties against those who harm children. That's why she's demanding a criminal investigation and the immediate expulsion of any Congressman involved in this crime and cover-up.
PATTY WETTERLING, CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE: I'm Patty Wetterling, and I approve this message.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Congressional leaders have not admitted covering up predatory conduct, but it's what is to be expected in such a harsh political environment.
CROWLEY: Absolutely and what's interesting here, picture her trying to do an ad on what the National Intelligence Estimate said or what Bob Woodward said. It's far more complicated, people would be looking at that going what's she talking about. This is extremely clear, and that's why it's such a good political issue for the Democrats. But I think they need to be careful because, of course, the minute that you look at them and you see -- you watch these, the Democrats have now lost the we're not politicizing this, this is all about the children, when you put up a political ad.
KING: And the big political question in town today is does speaker Hastert become the toll of this? Does he have to resign? Some conservative, mostly out there you would say on the fringe, saying he should go. The "Washington Times" adds its voice. The Speaker's on the phone all day long as we stand here tonight. Look like he survives?
CROWLEY: It looks like he survives. You could sense this sort of from the beginning of the day. I think really in a funny way the "Washington Times" editorial, which said, you know, Mr. Speaker step down, sort of made people have to sort of think about it in a way that they hadn't before, and it kind of galvanized the -- we get rid of our speaker? Can you imagine what the ads are going to be like? The speaker did so badly about these, you know, young boys being harassed over the Internet that he had to resign. So, I think sort of reality set in and it was two hard choices, but nonetheless you very much get the sense that, barring something else, Denny Hastert's staying as speaker.
KING: Barring something else. This is a strange story. We'll keep watching it. Our senior political correspondent Candy Crowley thank you. And for much more we're joined from Los Angeles by Dr. Drew Pinsky. He's an Internist, a sex therapist and the host of the popular radio show Loveline. Drew Pinsky, Mark Foley's lawyer comes out today and says he was molested as a child. He comes out today, as well, and says that Mark Foley is gay. Conduct you expect for someone who obviously has a problem, if not an addiction?
DR. DREW PINSKY, SEX THERAPIST: Well, yes. In fact, the recipe for individuals that become preoccupied with younger individuals sexually is sexual abuse in childhood. In fact, this is not typically the story of somebody who becomes a predatory pedophile. As the attorney said, he is not that and I agree. People that have that problem usually are molested prior to the age of 12.
So I don't think you really hang that one on him. And if you add in addiction and/or other mental illnesses like bipolarity, anything of that sort, very often the kinds of behaviors that manifest are horrific and shocking and surprising. And believe me, the people that do these things, when they sober up and go into treatment, a large part of the treatment is spent dealing with the shame and guilt of what they've done.
KING: And is part of the treatment at the beginning is publicly disclosing that he's gay? Is that something that's been recommended to him in rehab or is that something that's been recommended to him by an attorney?
PINSKY: I doubt -- listen, if I were treating a patient like that, I would not urge him to make any decisions that are of a major nature for quite some time, at least a couple of weeks, until he had a chance to think about it, let things settle.
So, you know, I'm sure there are a lot of things that went into the decision. I tell you what, though. Being open and honest ultimately is part of treatment. The timing of it is up to the individual. But absolutely, one day he's going to have to step up and say look, I have a compulsive nature. I'm an addict, whatever. Yes, I need treatment for this, I have to work on it every day, and he decided to start early.
KING: What does history, what does the data tell us about someone who is conceding not all the specifics as yet, but conceding he sent some of these sexually explicit messages? He's talking to young boys, former congressional pages, come meet me, let's go to dinner, let's stay out late in the night and drink, let's go back to my apartment, discussing sexual acts in these messages. What is the history? Does someone who sends messages like that, do they usually follow through?
PINSKY: Boy, I can't really say. I don't know any data on that. You're certainly heading in a bad direction, particularly if somebody were using other chemicals or alcohol, that things do have a momentum. One thing people don't realize, and I think this is important to state, is that things that are terrorizing in childhood, trauma, things that are awful for the victim, become sources of immense attraction in young adulthood and adulthood.
So the very child that we are crying for in the present is the one that becomes attracted as a perpetrator to these same kinds of behavior. And it's a very deep powerful attraction, takes a lot of work to manage, to treat effectively.
KING: This is part of the political debate, not your portfolio, but what are the warning signs? Does someone like this generally exhibit behavior that, if you're a close friend and a close colleague, who sees them every day, you should think wow, something weird, something strange is happening to Mark? Because we do know about this one, before we knew about the I.M.s, the instant messages of a sexual nature, we knew about this one e-mail exchange, his colleagues did, in which he asked a 16-year-old boy for a photograph. Should that have set off alarm bells?
PINSKY: Well, it should have. But it's much easier to detect chemical addiction than it is to detect sexual addiction, sexual compulsions, because usually there's such profound, deep shame and guilt, that people hide these for years and it's not until things spiral out of control that it comes to the surface and the consequences begin mounting and that's when we see them in treatment. The axiom is please come to treatment before you hurt yourself or somebody else. And I think that's what's happened here. Hopefully, that's the case.
KING: And the attorney says publicly that I want to tell you that Mark now tells me that he was molested as a teen, between the ages of 13 and 15, by a clergyman. But Mark also wants me to tell you that he's not blaming that for what he has done. Yet he is blaming that for what he's done, isn't he?
PINSKY: Well, I don't know if you say that's why I did it, that would be blaming it, as opposed to explaining that there's a history, and that history is always there, in people that manifest these behaviors. It doesn't excuse the behavior in the present. Listen, in treatment you do not allow people to get by with those sorts of excuses. The fact is, using a word like even inappropriate is, I think, quite gentle in regard to these behaviors.
If you were the parent of the child who was being approached this way, you would use a stronger word than inappropriate, I would suspect. And in fact we would in treatment confront all that and require him to manage the reality of what he's done. So ultimately, it's no excuse. It is a circumstance. It's a setting for it. It's a causational set of circumstances, but it's no excuse.
KING: Many are saying, what adds weight, almost shock to this story, is the fact that this man was the co-chairman of the House Caucus on Missing and Exploited Children. He was very close to the National Center on Missing and Exploited Children. Doesn't surprise you at all, does it?
PINSKY: No, it doesn't. You have to see this from the standpoint of the people that have this problem. It is an extraordinarily painful phenomenon.
This is not somebody who doesn't have feelings for other people. It's not a sociopath who can't empathize. This is somebody who feels deeply ashamed and who feels very bad about these impulses that they have. And as a result and very often as part of this they adore young people. They adore children and feel very deeply identification with people who have been victimized. But they lose it in the compulsion, the capacity to restrain some of this attraction to becoming a perpetrator themselves.
KING: Drew Pinsky, Dr. Drew, thank you so much for your help.
PINSKY: My pleasure.
KING: Thank you.
Federal authorities are investigating former Congressman Foley's electronic communications. How easy is it for investigators to recover old online chat sessions? Our Internet reporter Jacki Schechner standing by with details of that -- Jacki.
JACKI SCHECHNER, CNN INTERNET CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, law enforcement can get access to your old chat messages or instant messages, assuming they got a subpoena and you've saved them on your computer. But they're not going to get them from the major Internet companies.
Now, we spoke today to Yahoo!, to Microsoft, and to AOL, which, like CNN, is a Time Warner company, and they all say they don't save your instant messages. So the only people who are possibly saving your instant messages are you and the person that you're talking to. And that is very easy to do. While it's not always the default option, it is certainly an option, and in all of these messenger services, it's really just as easy as checking or clicking a box, and that will save your message history. You can also cut and paste and save like you would any bit of text on your computer.
We also wanted to point out that if eventually you decide that you don't want to have these on your system anymore, that sometimes law enforcement can go into your computer and recover those messages with something that's called computer forensics -- John.
KING: Takes a scandal to teach people quite a bit about their messages. Jacki Schechner, thank you very much.
Up ahead tonight, global alarm bells going off after North Korea threatens to conduct a nuclear test. Our Zain Verjee will have the details.
And too graphic for TV? Reporters grapple with a Washington scandal that reads like a seedy tabloid. Our Jeanne Moos takes a look. Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: There's new concern and heightened tension tonight in the standoff over North Korea's nuclear program. The country now says it plans to conduct a nuclear test while at the same time suggesting a willingness to negotiate.
For more, let's bring in CNN's Zain Verjee. Zain, what do we think North Korea's calculations are here?
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN ANCHOR: John, experts that we spoke to today said that North Korea could be calculating that firstly, the U.S. really has no real military options. It wants to make clear too to the U.S. that it can't be pressured or threatened with regime change.
Some analysts, though, we spoke to said along with their threats, the North Koreans also really still want to negotiate with the U.S.
Another calculation they could be making is this -- you see, Kim Jong-Il relies on China, on South Korea for critical food aid and fuel to survive, and he may be assuming that those two countries may just huff and puff over a nuclear test, but they won't ultimately permanently cut off their aid.
KING: Huff and puff. But what is it that North Korea wants?
VERJEE: Well, experts that we talked to said, look, North Korea firstly wants direct talks with the U.S. The U.S. says, well, that's just not going to happen. They want to talk under the umbrella of the six-party talks. North Korea also wants economic aid, security guarantees as well.
And another point, John, that's really important too is that Kim Jong-Il is absolutely furious about these financial sanctions that have been imposed on his country. See, North Korean financial assets have basically been frozen. The U.S. has been accusing them of counterfeiting and laundering money and being involved in other illicit activities like gun running. And that's actually the money that Kim Jong-Il uses to keep his elite happy so they can buy caviar and Mercedes. And so those are some of the sanctions that are having an impact. They're really hurting them. And Kim Jong-Il wants that to end.
KING: You were not long ago up at the DMZ, the last frontier of the Cold War, many call it. What was it like?
VERJEE: Well, you've been there too and you know the sense. I felt it was a strange place to be. It was somewhat surreal too, John. Especially watching some of the mind games that the soldiers there engage in with each other.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VERJEE (voice-over): Glares, scowls, and sneers. The most loyal of North Korea's troops serve here, on guard at the demilitarized zone that splits north from south. Back to back with U.S. and South Korean soldiers, separated only by a 16-inch concrete line.
If you cross it, the consequences could be deadly.
(on camera): That's North Korea, and we're looking at North Korean soldiers on the other side. Marching away from us, marching away from the military demarcation line. They're so close, we can see the expressions on their faces. Stern.
(voice-over): At the DMZ, it's all about being macho. South Korean soldiers, six feet tall, wearing shades, march out to position themselves opposite their enemies. Filling the cuffs of their pants with ball bearings to sound more intimidating. Cameras perched on North Korean guard towers track our every move. The U.N. command cameras on the South Korean side eyes the other side too.
A North Korean soldier trains his binoculars on us, while another peeps through a window, then abruptly withdraws.
(on camera): This is a North Korean People Army's building. You can identify it by the (INAUDIBLE) structure, the blue ones over there are actually representative of the U.N. building.
But as we've been standing here, the North Koreans are actually going behind the curtains, and every so often lifting them up and taking a look at us. It's actually quite humorous. We're standing out here filming them, and they're out -- they're looking right now. They're looking at us. Yes, take a look.
(voice-over): And the North Korean soldiers aren't the only ones watching. A Chinese group visits on the other side, filming us as we film them.
While the hard stares and tough guy poses were apparent, what's also striking is a parallel atmosphere of casualness. Despite the standoff, the two sides do occasionally talk, and when they do it, it's in this building, called T-2.
(on camera): The most interesting thing in this room is actually this table. You can see a line sort of runs right through the middle of it. And the most fascinating and exciting thing about being here in this otherwise ordinary room is that this is the south, but when I step over this way across this line, I'm in North Korea.
And if I open this door right here, which I can't, because South Korean and American troops are guarding it and protecting us, we'd go straight into the arms of the North Korean military on the other side.
North and South Korea are still officially at war. A peace treaty's never been signed. The troops here would be in the front line of fire if a battle were ever to break out again.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VERJEE: And there are fears, John, that if North Korea tests a nuclear bomb, it will set off a nuclear arms race in the region, and South Korea and Japan will pursue one as well, making the region and the DMZ even more dangerous -- John.
KING: Zain Verjee, a fascinating look at the DMZ. What struck me most, it's somehow troubling, yet other ways entertaining. The loud propaganda you hear coming in booming on the speakers from the North.
Zain Verjee, thank you very much.
And up ahead, Jack Cafferty wants to know, should Dennis Hastert resign as speaker of the House over the Foley scandal? He's taking your email.
Plus, too hot to handle? Reporters struggle with a story that's too graphic for television, while others are having a field day. Jeanne Moos is on the story. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: And Jack's in New York with "The Cafferty File" -- Jack.
CAFFERTY: The story this hour, the question, should Dennis Hastert resign as speaker of the House over this Foley scandal?
Donald in Geneva, Illinois: "I live in Dennis Hastert's district. I'm going to vote for John Lesh (ph), his Democratic opponent, this fall. If Speaker Hastert didn't know of Mark Foley's reputation among the House pages, he should have known. As a leader, one must be in the know. Being out of the know is just as much a malfeasance as being in the know and doing nothing."
Jerry in Brillion, Wisconsin: "Of course he should resign and then the people of Aurora, Illinois should vote him out of office. Has Hastert not seen 'To Catch a Predator' on 'Dateline'? He had a case with Foley right under his nose and he didn't see it."
Doug in Tucson: "Hastert and the Republicans were not involved in this situation involving Foley. Foley is the culprit in this case, not the Republican leadership. This thing has been turned into a political football by the Democrat Party and the press." Right.
Peter: "Anyone in leadership that is warned and took no action should resign. I'm a Republican. I'm sick of this B.S. Republicans are supposed to stand for something else, not lies, cover-ups, big money, lobbyists, et cetera. The flyover states the Republicans apparently take for granted will not stand by them over this thing."
Bill, a Republican in Illinois: "For Dennis Hastert to say this was brought on by Democrats is a true sign of his incompetence. This was brought on by that jackass, Foley. Mr. Hastert has a problem, a big problem."
David in Mount Prospect, Illinois: "Should Dennis Hastert resign? I think he should if he's guilty of covering up for Mark Foley. But I guess that depends on what the meaning of the word is, is."
If you didn't see your e-mail here, you can go to CNN.com/CaffertyFile and read some more of these online -- John.
KING: Having lived through the whole depends on your definition of is, I'm not sure I want to go back there. Jack Cafferty, thank you very much.
And remember, for the very latest developments on the Foley scandal and all the political news, check out the CNN Political Ticker. Just go to CNN.com/ticker.
Let's find out now what's coming up next hour on "PAULA ZAHN NOW." Hey, Paula.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, John. Thanks so much.
Coming up about six minutes from now, we're going to go in depth on this evening's shocking revelations about former Congressman Mark Foley. His attorney has confirmed that he has suffered abuse by a clergyman decades ago. He said his client also wants all of us to know that Mark Foley is gay.
We'll also consider the cumulative effects of the Foley scandal, Bob Woodward's new book and the recent leaks about the war in Iraq. Are Republicans getting hit by the perfect political storm? We'll get the political forecast coming up at the top of the hour.
In fact, John, you're going to be joining us for that roundtable. Did you notice anything different tonight?
KING: Like the new set. Like it a lot.
ZAHN: You do, yes. Our brand new home. We'll show it off a little bit later on tonight. Check this out.
KING: Looks great. We'll see you in just a few minutes.
ZAHN: All right, thanks, John.
KING: Still ahead, too graphic for television. It's Monica Lewinsky all over again for broadcasters trying to tell the story of a Washington sex scandal. Stay with us. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: The scandal surrounding disgraced former Congressman Mark Foley has been a difficult story for some media to report. Not so for others.
Here's CNN's Jeanne Moos.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When lines like "how my favorite young stud doing" are among the tamer Internet messages being bandied about in the Foley story, TV's in trouble.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Full of graphic, sexual language, too graphic to be broadcast.
MOOS (on camera): Too graphic to be broadcast maybe, but nothing's too graphic for the Internet.
(voice-over): Prompting warnings like "reader discretion strongly advised" at ABC's Web site, where in between the sometimes downright dirty dialogue, you also get the interruptions. "By right back, my mom is yelling," types one teen. Serious reporters end up roleplaying the suggestive stuff, becoming targets for comedians.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What are you wearing?
T-shirt and shorts.
Love to slip them off of you.
JON STEWART, COMEDIAN: There you have it, ABC's Brian Ross. Worst phone sex operator ever.
MOOS: And while journalists are doing their best to present solemn re-enactments.
VERJEE: Foley: I miss you lots in San Diego. Teen: Yes, I can't wait till D.C. Foley responds with a smile symbol.
MOOS: The real smiles are prompted by Web sites like Invisible Engine.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The following is a dramatization of an actual instant message investigation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do I make you a little horny?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A little.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cool.
MOOS: And everywhere there's a LOL, laughing out loud, in the transcript.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ha, ha.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ha, ha.
MOOS: The Huffington Post solicits humorous homemade videos, and one of their top ones at the moment is "Trick of Treating at the Foley." It's a quiz. They give you former Congressman Foley's line, and you pick the correct response. Let's see if you've been paying attention. When Foley asks, "Do I make you a little horny," did the teen answer, "no, my mom made this costume," "a little," or "no, you make me sick."
(on camera): The correct answer is "a little."
(voice-over): You may think this is all a little much. If it weren't for the Internet, we wouldn't be getting the uncensored story, misspellings and all. "So you have a fetich" typed the teen.
The transcript proves that even a congressman ...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you want to fool around?
MOOS: ...can't seem to fool around without making typos.
Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: And we love Jeanne Moos.
Thanks for joining us. I'm John King. Up next, "PAULA ZAHN NOW."
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