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Federal Authorities Prepare to Search Mark Foley's Office; How much Security is Too Much for America's Schools?; Counselors Lend Support To Amish Community Where Five Girls Were Killed In Schoolhouse; Baby Gorillas in Congo At Risk

Aired October 04, 2006 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Well, another head is rolled in the Mark Foley scandal. And the feds have their sights set on the ex- congressman's office and everything in it.
For more on the new developments, let's get straight to CNN congressional correspondent Andrea Koppel. She's on the Hill.

Hey, Andrea.

ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey there, Kyra.

Well, according to a Justice Department official, a letter was sent out in the last day or so to the House counsel here on Capitol Hill, informing them that they need to secure the contents, effectively, of Congressman -- former Congressman Foley's office.

That would be his computer files, disks, all of those things. The expectation, of course, as we all expected would happen, that there is a potential for a criminal investigation into Congressman Foley's case, into those e-mails that he exchanged, the instant messages that he exchanged with former pages, and whether or not he broke any laws, in fact, laws that he himself helped to write in the last couple of years -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Meanwhile, a lot of pressure building on the speaker of the House, Dennis Hastert.

KOPPEL: Yes, absolutely.

As we have seen in the last day or so, there was a surprising editorial in a conservative newspaper calling for Speaker Hastert to resign. There have been calls from conservatives outside of Capitol Hill for a similar move.

So far, no congressmen have actually made that move. In fact, in the last couple of days, we have seen Speaker Hastert and his allies hunker down, work the phones, try to do major damage control, reaching out through the conservative media yesterday, making about six or seven appearances on conservative talk radio shows.

And they feel that that actually has had a positive impact. In fact, in the last day, we have now seen the -- the latest development. A couple of conservative lawmakers have come out now publicly in support of Speaker Hastert, and saying that he should not resign -- among them, Congressman Mike Pence and Joe Pitts.

Congressman Pence, on Saturday, was among the first conservatives to say that there were issues here that he was really concerned about. Now, in this letter, in this public release that they are circulating on Capitol Hill, they're saying that: "Regardless of our reservations about how this matter was handled administratively, we believe that Speaker Hastert is a man of integrity, who has led our conference honorably and effectively throughout the past years. Speaker Hastert," they say, "categorically should not resign."

So, this is basically a strong signal to conservatives, Kyra, that Speaker Hastert is somebody they need to rally around at this point. They all recognize -- I mean, he's a very highly regarded, very well-liked speaker. He's the longest serving Republican speaker up here.

They're looking at the political calendar. They are less than five weeks out from midterm elections. And I think the calculation at this point is, depending upon how this story continues to develop, this is not the time to have a head as high as his is on the totem pole roll at this point.

PHILLIPS: Well, and, Andrea, it does continue to develop.

I mean, even within the past hour, we broke the news about Kirk Fordham, the chief of staff there for Thomas Reynolds, resigning. And he's a former chief of staff to Mark Foley.

Just brief our viewers on how that happened.

KOPPEL: Sure.

Well, this was a press release that was issued by Kirk Fordham himself in the last hour, as you mentioned. He's saying that he is resigning today from Congressman Reynolds' office.

He says: "It's clear that the Democrats are intent on making me a political issue in my boss' race. And I will not let them do so."

Kirk Fordham had been working for Congressman Reynolds for the last year. Congressman Reynolds is, himself, in a very tight race. You see him there with Laura Bush, who was up in Buffalo, campaigning on his behalf today.

Reynolds is also the person who says he notified Speaker Hastert about that e-mail exchange between Congressman Foley and that former page, the 16-year-old page, that he notified him in the spring. And Speaker Hastert is saying, well, he doesn't dispute that. He doesn't remember it.

So, this has been a bit of a mess for Congressman Reynolds, among others. And Kirk Fordham is now saying that he doesn't want that to interfere. He has also been part of the backstory, is -- because he had this relationship with Congressman Foley and views him as a close friend, he had been advising him. And that's where this got a little murky and a little sticky, Kyra. He had been advising him as a friend, not as the chief of staff to Congressman Reynolds. But all kinds of questions were swirling, including the fact that ABC News was reporting that Kirk Fordham tried to offer -- cut some sort of deal, so that they wouldn't go with the story last week.

And, so, to try to put an end to all of this, Kyra, Kirk Fordham said that he resigned, of his own volition, today.

PHILLIPS: Andrea Koppel on the Hill, appreciate it.

And for more on the Foley investigation and your daily dose of political news, check out CNN's new political ticker. Just go to CNN.com/ticker.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Disbelief, horror, and the agony of senseless loss.

It's rural Pennsylvania, where 10 girls, all Amish, were all shot in their one-room schoolhouse. Five are dead. Their funerals will be held tomorrow and Friday. This is their killer, Charles Carl Roberts IV. Police are trying to piece together the past last hours and years of his life, to try and answer some questions. Why?

For more on this, straight to the newsroom now. We go with Carol Lin. She's got a developing story for us.

Carol, what do you have?

CAROL LIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

Well, you know, Don, when you look at this story, you really get a sense of humility and this amazing forgiveness that is really kind of moving through the Amish community. We heard from a grandfather. His name is Enos Miller. His granddaughters, 8-year-old Mary Liz and 7-year-old Lena, were both killed in that attack. And the two girls, we understand, are going to be buried together in the same grave.

But this is what Enos Miller had to say about what happened and the shooter.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: What has this been like for your family?

ENOS MILLER, GRANDFATHER OF TWO SCHOOL SHOOTING VICTIMS: Shock.

QUESTION: Could you tell us about your granddaughters? It's Mary Liz and Lena, right? Tell us what kind of girls they were.

MILLER: Sweet.

QUESTION: Were they very close? Because we know they were close in age? They loved playing together? Yes. Why did you come down here this morning? MILLER: I have -- in this community all my life. I'm just nosy. That's all.

QUESTION: You said you can't really sleep, right?

MILLER: I got up. I didn't sleep last night, because I was down with my son -- and with my son and daughter-in-law down at (INAUDIBLE) hospital. And we saw her die down there. Then, the other was up -- then we went up at 2:00 in the morning. We saw her die up there.

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: So, you guys were with both of the girls as they passed away?

MILLER: Yes.

QUESTION: This -- is there anger towards the gunman's family?

MILLER: No.

QUESTION: Have you already forgiven?

MILLER: In my heart, yes.

QUESTION: How is that possible?

MILLER: Through God's help.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: No anger towards the gunman, Don, this grandfather of an 8- year-old and a 7-year-old, two little girls, who will be buried in the same grave.

LEMON: And, Carol, we may want to explain to our viewers why that interview was shot from the back. Obviously, the Amish don't always like to be on camera...

LIN: No.

LEMON: .. because they feel it is a sign of vanity.

LIN: Yes.

LEMON: So, we're respecting their traditions...

(CROSSTALK)

LIN: They also believe that the camera takes a bit of your soul...

LEMON: Yes.

LIN: ... when your image is imprinted.

LEMON: Thank you, Carol Lin.

LIN: Yes.

PHILLIPS: Well, remember when most schools were more or less bigger versions of the Amish school in Pennsylvania, well, a time before cameras, gates, and armed guards?

No one argues with safety at any cost, especially where children are concerned, but how much is enough?

Here's reporter Suzanne Kennedy of CNN affiliate WJLA in Woodbridge, Virginia.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SUZANNE KENNEDY, WJLA REPORTER (voice-over): Twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week, more than three dozen cameras monitor the halls and campus of Prince William County's Gar-Field High School.

They're the extra eyes that keep the 2,500 students at this school safe. During school hours, only two doors and one gate allow outsiders on campus and into the building. All over entrances are closed to the public.

ROGER DALLEK, PRINCIPAL, GAR-FIELD HIGH SCHOOL: Good morning, Mr. Peters (ph).

KENNEDY: During the last 10 years, principal Roger Dallek has seen significant changes in how students are protected.

DALLEK: I think, if someone wanted to get into any building badly enough, they might be able to find a way to do that. But, in our building, we have 19 people with walkie-talkies at any time.

KENNEDY: Within the last few years, all of the school's classrooms were equipped with emergency call buttons. In addition, the school is assigned a Prince William County police officer, who is here throughout the entire school day.

Still, some parents and students have concerns about whether schools are safe.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It just is getting worse and worse in this world. I say a prayer for all the children, and worry that there's enough security in the school to protect our kids.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I feel that school is somewhere that you should always feel safe. But now, more so, I'm feeling it's less and less safe every day.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Once again, that was Suzanne Kennedy of our CNN affiliate WJLA.

LEMON: And, as part of our focus on school security, we want to hear from you.

PHILLIPS: Do you have concerns about your child's school safety? Just e-mail us. The address is CNNnewsroom@CNN.com. We will read your responses throughout the afternoon.

LEMON: Bad cops in Baghdad -- long before it was news that some Iraqi police were thought to be colluding with Shiite death squads, and long before the government shut down a whole brigade, it was a rumor, like dozens, hundreds, that buzz around Baghdad constantly.

CNN's Cal Perry has a report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CAL PERRY, CNN PRODUCER (voice-over): Baghdad is a city where rumor and fact often blend together, where perception and reality collide in animated discussions on the street, all the more so as the city and the country lurch from one crisis to another.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): There's no smoke without fire. Iraqis are starting to believe these things, the talk of a military coup, major politicians and parliamentarians supporting terrorists and attacks against the suffering people.

PERRY: When Saddam Hussein ruled Iraq, there was no such talk. Discussions of politics and government could be fatal. At most, friends would exchange whispers. Now street talk is as unpredictable as the political situation, often fueled by the wild reporting of Baghdad's fledgling newspapers.

Rumors that are printed have a habit of becoming news. For example, the U.S. military would be surprised to hear:

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): They said the Green Zone fell, and the government is going down.

PERRY: Maybe the prime minister is living on borrowed time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We heard that President, in his latest call to Prime Minister Maliki, gave him two weeks to disband the militias and solve the problem of violence, or he will have to be replaced.

PERRY: And Saddam?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Many rumors. For example, with the second Saddam trial, a rumor came out that the Americans want him back in power.

PERRY: So influential is the rumor machine that people change their movements or stock up on supplies. It can even lead to a curfew being imposed.

(on camera): The truth is, on Baghdad's streets, the strength and speed of these rumors are a good barometer of the political situation. Whether about Saddam or the current government, these rumors are swirling fast.

Cal Perry, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Well, their quiet society has been ripped apart. Can outsiders help them repair it? Coming up from the NEWSROOM: offering support where it's desperately needed.

LEMON: And the black market for some of the world's most gentle animals.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON COOPER, HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER 360": It's believed a gorilla, like this one, might fetch from $50,000 to $100,000 on the black market, sold to buyers in Asia or Eastern Europe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: CNN's Anderson Cooper reports from the Congo on the efforts to protect their endangered infants -- that story straight ahead in the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Insulated in life and in death -- the cloistered nature of the Amish tradition has outsiders wondering, how are the people of Lancaster County coping with the brutal events of the past week?

Well, there are people stepping in to help.

Jonas Beiler was raised in Amish country, but left when he was 16. And after the accidental death of his 18-month-old daughter, he moved to find -- found, rather, a family resource and counseling center to meet Amish needs. Now, Brad Aldrich is a licensed family therapist and executive director at the center.

Both men join me now from Paradise, Pennsylvania.

Great to have you both.

Jonas, let me start with you.

How have you been counseling the families? What stands out to you at this point?

JONAS BEILER, FOUNDER, FAMILY RESOURCE AND COUNSELING CENTER: I will tell you, it becomes very difficult to know exactly what to do.

We made a strong effort to just mingle among the people, introduce ourselves, make sure they have water and food and just those immediate needs, and, you know, talk to them a little bit about what this process is ahead of them, when we have a chance. But, you know, you can't put it on them too early, because everybody is still in shock.

PHILLIPS: And, Brad, what have you been dealing with? What stands out to you? What has moved you?

BRAD ALDRICH, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, FAMILY RESOURCE AND COUNSELING CENTER: Well, these are people very much in shock, just like any community going through a tragedy.

The counseling needs at this point is simply trying to figure out how to go on with the necessities of life and sleep and food and dealing with any stress in the very immediate nature. The long-term counseling is yet to come.

PHILLIPS: Jonas, I know that you're probably thinking a lot about your daughter during this time. Tell our viewers how she lost her life, and how you think that is helping you reach these other family members, as they grieve over losing their own as well?

BEILER: I think, you know, she -- it was a freak accident, one of them things that shouldn't happen. So, we were in shock as well.

But, you know, the -- I think where I feel some really deep pain with these couples now is knowing what's ahead. They definitely have some long days and long nights ahead of them.

I do know, too, from experience that, when you have people come by you and support you, family and community, churches, whoever, you get through it. You find a way to get through it. And counseling for us, for my wife and I, was a big step in that direction, even though we didn't get a lot of counseling until five or six years after this happened.

PHILLIPS: Have you, Jonas, been able to sit down with some of these family members and share Angela's story and talk about the accident, when she was hit with a tractor, and that it was one of those totally unexpected moments in life, and that the healing process will eventually -- it's never -- you never forget about it. You just learn how to deal with it.

BEILER: Well, you know, tragedy like this changes your life.

So, to wish it were like it used to be is a myth. You have to figure out what is the new me about, what is this new situation we're in now all about. And that does take time. It takes years, actually.

But...

PHILLIPS: Brad...

BEILER: Go ahead.

PHILLIPS: No, no, no, understandable. I mean, they have got to understand, as faithful as they are, to try and make sense of this may never happen, right? The object is just to find peace in some way.

BEILER: Well, exactly. And I think what worked for Anne and I is, the two of us, for a long period of time, did not talk to each other about it, because we couldn't express our feelings. I thought she was OK. She thought I was OK. We both knew we were dying inside, and didn't talk to each other. That's how we drifted apart.

And, like, six or seven years after this accident, we finally connected again and realized, you know, we're both very hurting people. We need to just work on this together. And that was kind of an eye-opener experience for us, to go to counseling at that point and work through this.

And that's where I learned about counseling and how powerful therapy can be for people in need. And I redirected my life at that point to do what I'm doing today, to just help others.

PHILLIPS: We salute you for it, too.

And, Brad, you're dealing with a community that likes to stay with each other, and not necessarily mingle with the outside. They're -- they want to have their relationship with God, not necessarily anybody else.

How do you reach them and bring them in and say, it's OK to meet with us and be a part of this counseling center? Are they accepting that? And how are you getting them to be open to the idea?

ALDRICH: Well, you're correct in saying that they don't like too much of the outside world. But that outside world includes these news crews and people from long outside.

Jonas and the Family Resource and Counseling Center are a part of the community. So, we're already involved with them. We already know these -- these families and these people. They're our neighbors. So, we're already somewhat involved already.

PHILLIPS: Jonas Beiler and Brad Aldrich, we commend your efforts. Thanks so much for talking with us today.

BEILER: Thank you.

ALDRICH: Thank you very much.

PHILLIPS: More from the CNN NEWSROOM straight ahead.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COMMISSIONER JEFFREY MILLER, PENNSYLVANIA STATE POLICE: We had five victims die thus far as a result of this attack. And I'm going to give you their name and their age.

First victim, Naomi -- N-A-O-M-I -- Rose Eversole - E-V-E-R-S-O- L-E - age 7.

Second victim, Anna - A-N-N-A - Mae - M-A-E - Stoltzfus - S-T-O- L-T-Z-F-U-S - age 12. Third victim, Marian Fisher - M-A-R-I-A-N F-I-S-H-E-R - age 13.

Fourth victim, Mary Liz Miller - M-A-R-Y L-I-Z M-I-L-L-E-R -- age 8.

Fifth victim, Lena Miller - L-I-N-A M-I-L-L-E-R - age 7.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: All right.

Well, the common wisdom on Wall Street was, the Dow industrials might pull back a little bit, after setting a record high yesterday.

LEMON: But that is not the case. That's what we hear.

Let's get the numbers from Susan Lisovicz, who is at the New York Stock Exchange.

SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Triple-digit numbers, at that. It's called the big mo, as in momentum.

Stocks are on fire today. The Dow keeps on rolling, the blue chips now trading firmly above the 11800 mark, yes, setting another all-time intraday high. As long as the Dow closes higher -- and it's looking pretty good right now -- we will have another record close as well.

Take a look at the numbers. See for yourself -- the most widely watched barometer in the world hitting another milestone at 11834, up 106 points, or 1 percent -- the NASDAQ composite doing even better, up 40 points, or nearly two percent.

And we have got two important developments in stories we have been following closely -- GM, Nissan, Renault announcing they're terminating alliance talks, after failing to agree on the value of the potential tie-up. GM CEO Rick Wagoner will hold a news conference at the top of the hour.

And possible indictments in the Hewlett-Packard scandal over its investigation into boardroom leaks -- "BusinessWeek Online," "The Wall Street Journal" both reporting that California's attorney general will file criminal charges against former H.P. Chairman Patricia Dunn, its former ethics lawyer, and some outside investigators -- so, two big stories we're watching as well -- Kyra and Don.

LEMON: Yes.

PHILLIPS: All right, investors certainly buying today, right? Neiman Marcus hoping consumers will be spending for the holidays -- not that we're monitoring Neiman Marcus, right? It's a little out of our budget here.

(LAUGHTER) PHILLIPS: But, anyway, you know, it's that annual Christmas catalogue; right, Susan?

LISOVICZ: Yes.

And, vicariously, we get to enjoy it.

(CROSSTALK)

LISOVICZ: And, as usual, we will find exotic gifts that range from the sublime to the ridiculous. And, as always, they don't come cheap.

If a perpetual vacation is what you're looking for, there's a vacation club membership in Italy. That's the club at Castiglion del Bosco, which translates into Castle in the Woods. It includes a vineyard, by the way, for $3.8 million. You will buy rights to use a luxury villa at the club for life. Memberships can even be handed down to future generations.

If you're looking to give Fido a taste of the good life, the catalogue has these limited-edition pet homes. They're made of poplar and come with an interior rug and coordinating wallpaper. The price is $5,000 and $7,000.

And, finally, a trip into outer space for you and five of your friends for a mere $1.7 million -- other items in the catalogue, a sculpture made of number-two pencils, and a limited-edition BMW.

And, Kyra and Don, that trip into outer space includes, at the end, a trip to Sir Richard Branson's private island retreat in the Caribbean, since it's his spaceship.

PHILLIPS: See?

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIPS: We were just in here making calls on what we would want to do. I want that space trip, and I want to hang out with Branson.

LISOVICZ: I know.

LEMON: And you...

LISOVICZ: How fun is that?

LEMON: ... would have to be Branson to afford it.

(LAUGHTER)

PHILLIPS: Yes.

LISOVICZ: Exactly.

PHILLIPS: That's true. (LAUGHTER)

PHILLIPS: Thanks, Susan.

LISOVICZ: You're welcome.

LEMON: Maybe we go online, like CheapTickets.com or something like that.

(LAUGHTER)

PHILLIPS: Yes, right.

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIPS: That will be the day.

LEMON: Yes, rule number one to remember when you go online.

PHILLIPS: Well, no matter where you go, you will leave virtual footprints.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DANIEL SIEBERG, CNN TECHNOLOGY CORRESPONDENT: So, if I delete something, is it gone?

JOHN MALLERY, COMPUTER FORENSICS EXPERT: If you just delete something, no, it is not gone.

SIEBERG: And if I empty the recycle bin...

MALLERY: It's not gone.

SIEBERG: And if I format the hard drive?

MALLERY: It's not gone.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: CNN's Daniel Sieberg sits down with the cyber-sleuth to follow the e-mail trail -- that story straight ahead from the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Mark Foley may be out of circulation, but his D.C. office and everything in it could soon be under federal scrutiny.

LEMON: The Justice Department is asking the House of Representatives to secure Foley's workplace. A senior Justice Department official tells CNN the request was made in a letter to a House lawyer. It says Foley's office items may be needed in a future criminal probe.

For his part, Foley's lawyer says the ex-congressman was molested by a clergyman as a teen, but he says Foley isn't making excuses for sending lurid computer messages to teenage pages and he insists that's as far as it went.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID ROTH, MARK FOLEY'S ATTORNEY: There was absolutely never any inappropriate sexual contact with any minor. He has acknowledged full responsibility for the inappropriate e-mails and inappropriate IMs. There never has been any sexual contact with a minor.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: And meantime, it looks as if the Foley scandal has brought about another casualty. Kirk Fordham used to be Foley's chief of staff, and until today, he did the same job for Congressman Tom Reynolds, who's in charge of trying to help maintain the GOP majority in the House. Fordham has resigned over allegations he tried to protect Foley from congressional inquiries or public shame. Fordham denies it.

Instant messages preserved for the ages, a virtual smoking gun in a political scandal, and maybe a criminal prosecution. Everybody should know by now that nothing -- nothing -- typed on a computer is ever really private or ever really goes away. We'll have that story for you in just a little bit. But President Bush is in Colorado and we want to catch up with him today.

PHILLIPS: Let's take a listen.

GEORGE W. BUSH. PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: ... about the tragic loss of Emily Keyes. She died one week ago of an unspeakable act of violence. It wasn't necessary, but we join her family in prayer. We extend our deepest sympathies to those good people.

This next week, I have asked Attorney General Al Gonzalez and Secretary of Education Margaret Spellings to convene a meeting of leading experts and officials to determine how the federal government can help state and local folks deal with these shootings and the tragedies. We wanted to make it certain around the country that the schoolhouse is a safe place for children to learn.

And so I'm looking forward to the results of that meeting, how we can facilitate help, and how we can help these communities heal and recover from the tragic events, like those that have taken place in three states over the past couple of weeks. May God bless Emily's family.

Speaking about education, when I was the governor of Texas, I used to say this: I said, "education is to a state what national defense is to the federal government." Education is, by far, the most important priority for state government.

LEMON: And that is President Bush campaigning in Colorado today. Of course, he's talking about the school shootings. He's talking about what he wants the country to do. He has offered the federal government to look into school shootings, and he also mentioned the high school student who was killed last week in that shooting in Colorado.

Let's take a look at Emily Keyes. She's a high school student that was killed by a gunman who burst into a Colorado school and kept most of the girls and asked the boys to leave. And, unfortunately, Emily was a victim of this shooter.

Again, the president campaigning in Colorado and he's asked the federal government to look into school shootings and is also wondering how the nation is going to get through all of this.

PHILLIPS: Well, straight ahead, disbelief, horror and the agony of senseless loss. It's rural Pennsylvania where 10 girls, all Amish, were all shot in their one-room schoolhouse. Five are dead. Their funerals will be held tomorrow and Friday.

This is their killer, Charles Carl Robert, IV. Police are trying to piece together the last hours and years of his life to try and answer the question why? In typically compassionate Amish fashion, the close relative of two young victims say that he harbors no ill will toward that troubled gunman.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What has this been like for your family?

ENOS MILLER, GRANDFATHER OF TWO VICTIMS: Shock.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you tell us about your granddaughters? It's Mary Liz and Lena, right? Tell us what kind of girls they were.

MILLER: Sweet.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Were they very close? Because we know they were close in age. They loved playing together? Yes. Why did you come down here this morning?

MILLER: I've lived in this community all my life and just nosy. That's all.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You said you can't really sleep, right?

MILLER: I didn't sleep last night because I was down with my son and with my daughter-in-law down at (INAUDIBLE) hospital, and we saw her die down there. Then the other was up, and we went up at 2:00 in the morning and saw her die up there.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So you guys were with both of the girls as they passed away?

MILLER: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is there anger towards the gunman's family?

MILLER: No.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Have you already forgiven? MILLER: In my heart, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How is that possible?

MILLER: Through God's help.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: And just to remind you, of course, that interview was done from the back because the Amish don't believe to be in pictures or be on television because of vanity.

LEMON: Let's go back to the Congressman Foley investigation. We were talking about instant messages earlier. They're preserved for the ages, a virtual smoking gun in a political scandal and maybe even a criminal prosecution. Everyone should know by now that nothing typed on a computer is ever really private or ever really goes away.

Here's CNN technology correspondent Daniel Sieberg.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DANIEL SIEBERG, CNN TECHNOLOGY CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The FBI won't discuss how they are trying to gather high-tech evidence in the Mark Foley case, but it's likely similar to methods used by law enforcement and businesses all the time. We don't yet know all the details of the Foley situation, but what if anyone wanted to conceal their online missteps?

JOHN MALLERY, COMPUTER FORENSICS EXPERT: But the man behind the curtain with the applications and operating system are doing behind the scenes, that's the realm of the computer forensics examiner.

SIEBERG: The oldest rule in the book for cyber sleuths is delete doesn't mean gone. As a computer forensics consultant, it's John Mallery's mantra.

MALLERY: You have a library. And for those of you that remember card catalogs, if you take a card out of the card catalog, the book is still on the shelf. When you delete a file, the pointers go away, the data still stays there.

It can stay there for five seconds. It can stay there for years. It stays there until the operating system decides to write over that deleted file with new data.

SIEBERG: Apparently the congressional page saved his e-mails and instant messages, possibly by simply copying and pasting them, or they may have been monitored electronically. Regardless, experts say it's nearly impossible for anyone to cover their virtual footprints.

Mallery gives me a rudimentary but effective demonstration of how deleted data can be recovered.

MALLERY: In this case, you have a deleted Word document. I'm going to scroll down. And what you are looking at here is the contests of this deleted Word document.

There's additional information added to the file when you create a document. So the user name can often be added to that document -- the company name, the computer name, the original location.

SIEBERG (on camera): So if I delete something, is it gone?

MALLERY: If you just delete something, no, it is not gone.

SIEBERG: And if I empty the recycle bin...

MALLERY: It's not gone.

SIEBERG: And if I format the hard drive?

MALLERY: It's not gone.

SIEBERG: More data could be uncovered as cyber sleuths dig deeper into Foley's digital domain, especially because he could have used numerous computers or different devices.

(voice over): Any time you turn on a Blackberry or computer, open a file and type a key, or send a message, there's a record. Mallery says anyone who believes otherwise is either arrogant or ignorant.

MALLERY: The only safe computer is one that you never turn on and you bury in the ground six feet underground.

SIEBERG: Daniel Sieberg, CNN Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: There you go.

PHILLIPS: Made us a little nervous.

LEMON: Careful, careful, yes.

PHILLIPS: Exactly.

All right, well, the black market for some of the world's most gentle animals.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: A gorilla like this one might fetch from $50,000 to $100,000 on the black market, sold to buyers in Asia or Eastern Europe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: CNN's Anderson Cooper reports from the Congo on the efforts to protect their endangered infants. That story straight ahead from the NEWSROOM. LEMON: A midair mystery. Two planes collide. The big one crashes. The much smaller one lands safely. We'll hear from a man who survived the ordeal. That's ahead in the CNN NEWSROOM. s

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: So we're told, it's never been harder to be a baby gorilla in central Africa.

LEMON: Between farmers looking for land and hunters looking for food, the gorilla population in general is under constant threat, and babies are especially vulnerable to poachers.

CNN's Anderson Cooper reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER (voice-over): A baby gorilla stolen from her mother, a young victim of the chaos here in the Congo. She's just five months or six months old, one of four young lowland or Grauer gorillas who found a temporary refuge behind the guarded walls of the Dian Fossey Gorilla Fund headquarters in Goma.

Like the other gorillas here, she was brutally taken from her family to be sold on the black market. Now none of these gorillas can survive in the wild on their own.

(on camera): So someone, soldiers or whomever, would just go and grab them from their families and try to, and then hope to sell them?

ALECIA LILLY, PRIMATE PSYCHOLOGIST: Exactly. But the worst thing is they had to kill significant numbers of their family members to get them. They are like human children that are suffering from war and have seen family members killed.

COOPER (voice-over): Lilly a primate psychologist who hopes one day to reintroduce these gorillas into the wild.

LILLY: We work with them to encourage them to bond with their caregivers because gorillas are like babies, they're like human babies. They have to have a close bond with a caregiver when you don't have a parent or they don't survive.

COOPER: After several months here these gorillas have improved dramatically. They're once again playful, and naturally curious. As interested in us as we are of them.

LILLY: You have a gorilla behind you.

COOPER: I know, I can feel, I can feel the gorilla behind me. Any advice on...

LILLY: Just ignore her.

COOPER: Ignore the gorilla?

LILLY: Yes, just ignore her.

COOPER: This is a gorilla, named Idaberry (ph). She's 3-1/2. She was rescued from poachers about a year ago. They stole her from her family and hoped to sell her on the black market.

She's now smelling my armpit.

(voice-over): It's not known how many lowland gorillas still live in the Democratic Republic of the Congo. Estimates range from 7,000 to 15,000, but their population has dropped 25 percent in recent years.

LILLY: And so there's hunting in the forest, people are going in to bring in food for the mining camps.

COOPER (on camera): So the more mining there is, the greater the threat to the gorillas?

LILLY: Exactly.

COOPER (voice-over): It's believed a gorilla like this one might fetch from $50,000 to $100,000 on the black market, sold to buyers in Asia or Eastern Europe.

LILLY: Someone in fact came here trying to sell us a baby gorilla because we had...

COOPER (on camera): They tried to sell a baby gorilla to you?

LILLY: Yes, yes. Dian Fossey Gorilla Fund International because they saw our logo with the gorilla on the gate, and they thought, oh, they must like gorillas. So we called the wildlife authorities and set up a sting, pretending we were going to buy the gorillas.

COOPER (voice-over): It was a small victory in a war these gorillas are not yet winning. Innocent victims of a conflict they simply know nothing about.

Anderson Cooper, CNN, Goma.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Africa's misery, the world's shame. CNN's Anderson Cooper is reporting live from Africa all week. Tonight, he is in the Congo. He will joined by Dr. Sanjay Gupta and Africa correspondent Jeff Koinange for special reports. It's all this week at 10 p.m. Eastern, right here on CNN.

PHILLIPS: Let's get straight to the newsroom. Carol Lin working details on a developing story -- Carol.

LIN: More developments, Kyra, on whether the Bush administration can continue its warrantless surveillance. Well, according to a federal appeals court, it has ruled, according to the Associated Press, that the Bush administration, in fact, can continue that surveillance without a warrant. These are surveillance of e-mails and phone calls that were going overseas to alleged terror suspects.

Back in August, we had heard from a U.S. district judge in Detroit, Michigan, who had struck down the NSA program, saying that it violated rights to free speech and privacy. This dates back to a lawsuit back in January, Kyra, by the ACLU and a variety of groups that had tried to stop this warrantless wiretapping and surveillance program started by the National Security Agency.

PHILLIPS: Carol, thanks.

One hundred and fifty-five people died in last week's jetliner crash in Brazil. Now there may be criminal charges. A judge has ordered two American pilots to stay in Brazil, while authorities investigate whether they caused their executive jet and a 737 passenger jet to collide over the Amazon jungle. Federal police say that the two could be charged with manslaughter.

"New York Times" reporter Joe Sharkey was onboard the smaller plane.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE SHARKEY, "NEW YORK TIMES": I was working on a laptop. I was right on the wing, the left wing where the -- that was -- the tip of which was sheared off. I was working with the window shade pulled down. I heard a bang. I mean, a boom, I mean a bang. Sort of like if you hit a pothole in a car at a moderate rate of speed. I felt a jolt, and then I felt nothing else.

The plane remained stable. I opened the window and my heart sank. I just saw the shocking damage to the wing that was sheared of four -- at least four feet of it was sheared off. Later, I would learn that part of the tail had been damaged seriously.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Joe Sharkey calls the next 15 minutes the most harrowing of his life. The larger jet crashed in an area so remote and so dense recovery crews had to clear trees just to make space for helicopters to land. That small jet landed safely.

LEMON: Out of the hospital and into rehabilitation, the loan survivor of the Comair plane crash that killed 49 people in Lexington, Kentucky, on August 27th. Co-pilot James Polehinke lost a leg and suffered other injuries, including, doctors say, brain damage that caused memory loss. Polehinke doesn't remember heading down a too- short runway or crashing into the field outside Blue Grass Airport. He hasn't yet been interviewed by federal investigators, either.

Good intentions, wrong child.

PHILLIPS: A babysitter's worst nightmare, and the parents weren't too happy, either. Details from the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Pick-up mix-up causes a peck of trouble in California.

PHILLIPS: Now see if you can count all the people who dropped the ball on this one.

Reporter Juan Fernandez has the story from our L.A. K-CAL.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JUAN FERNANDEZ, K-CAL CORRESPONDENT: When five year-old Angel Guerrero's grandmother came to pick him up after school, he was already gone, taken, by mistake, by a babysitter. It turns out it was her first day on the job.

NORMA GUERRERO, ANGEL'S MOTHER: I was thinking that bad things -- yes, maybe something happened to him. I don't know, maybe they took him somewhere. I don't know.

FERNANDEZ: Angel tells his family the woman gave him soup and was very nice to him. She had no idea there was a problem until the parents of the boy she was supposed to pick up got home and asked, who's he?

SGT. DAVID CANNAN, LONG BEACH, CALIFORNIA POLICE: That's exactly what they said, who's this? This is your son. No, it's not. Return him.

FERNANDEZ: Back at Abraham Lincoln Elementary, a worried family and a search for a now missing child that finally came to an end when the babysitter saw Angel's picture on T.V.

GUERRERO: I can't understand why they don't ask more questions so they can be sure it was her.

SALVADOR MACHUCA, ANGEL'S FATHER: The next time it's for real, you know, the little kid's going to get taken, and he's not going to come back. That's reality, you've got to have more security.

FERNANDEZ: The school is sure to its pickup policy. In the meantime, police say this was an accident, a mistake, and no charges will be filed.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS Poor little thing. His little eyes. He doesn't know what's going on.

All right. Let's check in with CNN"s Wolf Blitzer.

LEMON: He's standing by in the "SITUATION ROOM" to tell us what's coming up at the top of hour.

Hey Wolf.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hey guys. Thanks very much.

A lurid e-mail scandal and allegations of a cover-up. Another resignation on Capitol Hill leads to more questions about who knew what and when. Plus, if anyone will be the next to go.

Also, an Iraqi bloodbath. Fifteen more U.S. troops killed in the first four days of October, and death squads roaming with the help of local police. We're taking you live to Baghdad.

Plus "State of Denial", Bob Woodward, here in the Situation Room. I'll ask him some of the tough questions about the war, President Bush and Donald Rumsfeld.

And Bill Maher also right here in the Situation Room one on one. He's joining me live to give us his spin of Washington politics, and that's always fun.

All that, guys, coming up right here at the top of the hour.

PHILLIPS: Are you ready for him, Wolf?

BLITZER: I think so.

LEMON: All right, Wolf.

BLITZER: It's only fair, I've been on his show, he should be on my show.

PHILLIPS: That's true.

LEMON: We will be watching to see how you handle that.

Thank you, Wolf.

The closing bell and wrap of action on Wall Street straight ahead in the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Ali Velshi, finally back.

Where you been, pal?

LEMON: Yes. What's going on?

ALI VELSHI, CNN BUSINESS NEWS ANCHOR: I'm around, just, you know, keeping busy.

I was here, but it was like a blur, because we were paying more attention to the rally than me.

LEMON: That's right.

VELSHI: I don't like it these days when there's so much business news that I actually have to report it.

PHILLIPS: Well, that's what we were asking. We want to see if we could you throughout the day, but they said you were all busy and doing things. VELSHI: Well, I'll you what I'm working on, which in one of the big stories today, sort of clouded by this whole business about the market. But we are expecting in three hours -- two hours, indictments in the Hewlett-Packard case. We are expecting Patricia Dunn, the former chairperson, to face indictment in California.

But lots of big news stories -- I guess I should say goodbye to you, because we're kind of done.

PHILLIPS: Have a good one.

(STOCK MARKET REPORT)

PHILLIPS: Let's take it over to Wolf Blitzer now, he standing by in Washington.

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