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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Rough Time for Casualties in Iraq; More Fallout from Foley Scandal; Does Bush Help or Hurt GOP Candidates?; House Passes Border Security Bill; New York County Passes Tough Immigration Law; Challenged Raised to Electronic Voting; Jon Kyl Interview; National Labor Relations Board Issues Major Defeat For Working Men and Women
Aired October 04, 2006 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, thank you.
Tonight, the insurgency in Iraq has escalated sharply. Nineteen of our troops have been killed in the past four days. Is American strategy on Iraq a complete failure? We'll have a special report from the Pentagon tonight.
And a top congressional aide resigns over the Foley scandal on Capitol Hill. We'll have that live report. And three of the country's best political analysts will assess that scandal and its likely impact on our upcoming elections. All of that and a great deal more, straight ahead.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT, news, debate and opinion, on Wednesday, October 4. Live in New York, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening, everybody.
A top U.S. general in Baghdad today delivered one of the bleakest assessments of the war so far. Major General William Caldwell said roadside bomb attacks in Baghdad are at an all-time high and American casualties are rising fast. Nineteen of our troops have been killed in the first four days of this months.
President Bush today made the war on terror a central theme of campaign speeches in Arizona and Colorado. President Bush declared Democrats cannot be trusted to protect the nation. But Democrats say the president's very own policies have jeopardized our national security.
Jamie McIntyre tonight reports from the Pentagon on indication that the U.S. military strategy in Iraq is failing.
Bill Schneider reports from Washington on whether the president's focus on the issue of national security is helping or hurting Republican election chances.
And Dana Bash reports on Capitol Hill tonight on the widening scandal over former Congressman Mark Foley.
We turn first to Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon -- Jamie.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, time was we'd get a lot of criticism from Pentagon officials for not focusing enough on the good news in Iraq. And frankly, you don't hear that criticism much anymore.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE (voice-over): ... and roadside bombs now at an all-time high in Iraq. And U.S. casualties on the pace to make October even worse than September, which was the second deadliest month this year. There's not much positive a military briefer can say.
MAJ. GEN. WILLIAM CALDWELL, SPOKESMAN, MULTINATIONAL FORCE IN IRAQ: As far as U.S. casualties goes, you know, this has been a hard week for U.S. forces over the last couple of days.
MCINTYRE: In just four days, 19 Americans have died in Iraq. And if that rate continued, it would result in 147 deaths in October, surpassing the previous highest monthly toll, 137 in November of 2004.
Iraqis continue to die at even higher rates, about 1,000 a month, mostly from grisly murders and executions in which the victims are often tortured. And now a brigade of Baghdad police has been pulled off the street on suspicion of involvement with kidnappings and murders.
CALDWELL: They've been pulled offline and will go through retraining before they'll be recertified and allowed to again conduct activities as police forces for the government of Iraq.
MCINTYRE: The police of the 8th Brigade will get new criminal background checks and face lie detectors in an effort to weed out militia killers.
The situation in Iraq was labeled a debacle a year ago by supreme NATO commander James Jones, according to Bob Woodward's new book, "State of Denial". In an interview with CNN, Jones didn't dispute he may have said that to his close friend, joining chiefs chairman Peter Pace but denied he was pessimistic about Iraq.
JAMES JONES, SUPREME ALLIED COMMANDER, EUROPE: I don't think that Iraq is a debacle. My intent was to help a friend understand some things he already new, that Iraq is a big problem.
MCINTYRE (voice-over): Woodward also wrote that you thought to yourself maybe you should resign in protest. Is that true?
JONES: We all have bad days. I mean, there hasn't been a day in the Marine Corps. I remember, my first thought of resignation was in Vietnam. I said, "Why am I doing this?" You have bad days.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: Lou, a question that a lot of people are asking both inside and outside the Pentagon is why is it, with 300,000 Iraqi security forces standing up, the U.S. military can't yet stand down? Well, the dissolution of the 8th Iraqi Police Brigade, the arrest of its commander on suspicion of involvement with death squads, is providing a partial answer to that question -- Lou.
DOBBS: The questions are mounting almost as fast as the American casualties in Iraq.
Jamie, thanks for answering some of those questions, as you do each evening here. Jamie McIntyre from the Pentagon.
Insurgents today killed four more of our troops in an attack in Baghdad. This is the second time in three days that our troops have suffered such heavy casualties. Two thousand seven hundred thirty- three of our troops have now been killed in this war, 20,687 wounded. Of those, 9,352 seriously.
Insurgents today killed at least 12 Iraqis in a series of bomb attacks against Iraqi government employees in Baghdad. One bomb exploded as government security guards were taking their cars into a gas station. A second bomb detonated as rescue workers and police officers arrived at that scene. A third bomb exploded near a convoy carrying officials from the Iraqi industry ministry.
In Afghanistan, NATO tonight will take command of 12,000 American troops in the eastern part of the country. The American troops will be under the operational control of a British general. He already commands 20,000 other NATO troops in Afghanistan.
The NATO operation in Afghanistan is the largest ground operation the alliance has ever staged. Eight thousand other American troops remain under the direct U.S. command, focusing on counterterrorism and air support missions in Afghanistan.
Turning to events in this country, and new questions about a possible cover-up in the Foley scandal. A top congressional aide linked to the scandal today resigned as chief of staff to a leading Republican congressman.
Dana Bash has the report from Capitol Hill -- Dana.
DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, as that top Republican aide resigned today, he dropped a bomb on his way out the door.
Kirk Fordham, who was the chief of staff to New York Congressman Tom Reynolds and also had been chief of staff to Congressman Mark Foley, released a statement saying that he actually informed GOP leadership staff about questionable Foley conduct more than two years ago.
In the statement he says, "Even prior to the existence of the Foley e-mail exchanges, I had more than one conversation with senior staff at the highest levels of the House of Representatives, asking them to intervene when I was informed of Mr. Foley's inappropriate behavior."
He goes on to say, "One of these staffers is still employed by a senior House Republican leader." Now if that's true, it does appear to contradict a timeline that the House speaker's office released over the weekend saying that they didn't know anything about Mr. Foley's conduct before 2005.
The speaker's office, though, at this point is not denying the statement made by Kirk Fordham. A spokesman simply says this: "This matter has been referred to the standards committee, and we fully expect the bipartisan panel will do what it needs to investigate this matter and protect the integrity of the House."
Now the reason why Kirk Fordham says he had to release this is because he says there were reports essentially blaming him for not taking this matter to the GOP leadership. So he released this to defend himself.
And Lou, this comes on a day where there already was some finger pointing inside the GOP leadership.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BASH (voice-over): The No. 3 Republican in the House is the latest member of the leadership to distance himself from House Speaker Dennis Hastert. Congressman Roy Blunt told reporters back home in Missouri he would have handled the Foley matter differently, had he known about it. "You have to be curious. You have to ask all the questions you can think of," Blunt said.
In Texas, former majority leader, Tom DeLay, who left Congress in the wake of his own ethics troubles, told CNN that calls for the speaker's resignation are premature.
TOM DELAY (R), FORMER HOUSE MAJORITY LEADER: When we know all the facts, then you might think about those kinds of things. But to jump on people not knowing the facts is irresponsible.
BASH: That as Hastert continued his damage control effort, calling to a radio show and blaming political opponents for timing revelations about Foley to come close to the election.
REP. DENNIS HASTERT (R-IL), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: Somebody held information for one or two years or I don't know how long to drop out on the last day of the legislation -- legislative session, right before a big election, could change the topic out there.
BASH: Hastert aides are relieved that so far no GOP lawmaker has called for his resignation. But Republican anxiety over the ramifications of the Foley scandal is still palpable. GOP candidates are being bombarded with questions all over the country about Foley's conduct and how Republican leaders handled it.
From Florida...
REP. JEFF MILLER (R), FLORIDA: The first e-mails that came out have been described as overly friendly. I'd say they were probably a little more than that.
BASH: ... to Tennessee...
REP. MARSHA BLACKBURN (R), TENNESSEE: If anybody participated in a cover-up, whether it was a member or whether it was a staffer or whether it was somebody who was holding e-mails, they -- that individual needs to resign immediately.
BASH: ... to California.
REP. BRIAN BILBRAY (R), CALIFORNIA: It's just like when someone of the cloth or a teacher violates the trust. A congressman violating this trust is an outrage.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: This morning, the speaker got a crucial boost of support from a conservative lawmaker who's influential here. Mike Pence, a conservative from Indiana released a statement saying that he didn't agree with all of the moves that the leadership made to try to stop Mark Foley.
However, he did say that he didn't think that House Speaker Dennis Hastert should resign. Now again, that was earlier today.
Earlier today, Lou, the speaker's office was feeling pretty good that perhaps they had weathered the storm. It is a whole different ball game, a very different atmosphere here tonight after this senior Republican aide who left released the statement, essentially making the case that Republican leaders have not been telling the truth about what they knew and when they knew it.
DOBBS: Dana, thank you. Dana Bash from Capitol Hill.
Investigators and attorneys say it could be very difficult for prosecutors to build a federal case against the former congressman. Lawmakers criminalized explicit Internet conversations with children 10 years ago in the Communications Decency Act. But the Supreme Court ruled that the act violated the First Amendment right to free speech.
For prosecutors to bring successful charges, they would have to show Foley met with teenagers and then had a sexual encounter with them. But Foley's attorney insists Foley never had any sexual contact with a minor.
President Bush avoided any mention of the Foley scandal today. The president focused instead on national security issues during the last stages of a campaign swing through the west and southwest. Some Republicans, however, are wondering whether a presidential visit to their home district might actually hurt their election prospects.
Bill Schneider has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST (voice-over): If it's Monday, this must be Reno.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Dean Heller is the right person for the United States Congress.
SCHNEIDER: Tuesday, hello, Stockton.
BUSH: I'm proud to be here on behalf of Richard Pombo.
SCHNEIDER: Republican candidates had better consider this question: is Bush a drag? He certainly wasn't in 2002, when the president barnstormed the country, and Republicans unexpectedly gained House seats.
But this year, most Americans say they'd be more likely to vote for a candidate who opposes President Bush than one who supports him. So Bush is a drag, right? It could be more complicated.
Bush clearly rallies the Republican base. Eighty-four percent of Republicans say they'd be more likely to vote for a candidate who supports the president. But he also rallies the Democratic base. Ninety-two percent of Democrats say they'd be more likely to vote for an anti-Bush candidate.
PATRICK MURPHY (D), PENNSYLVANIA CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE: I'm Patrick Murphy.
SCHNEIDER: Democrats all over the country are trying to make President Bush the issue.
MURPHY: Whether it's the war in Iraq or stem cell research, and Social Security, the things that President Bush wants to happen, my opponent goes along.
SCHNEIDER: Republicans believe their base can overwhelm the Democratic base because Republicans have the edge in money and organization.
What about swing voters? Bad news for Republicans. By a huge margin, independents say they'd prefer a Bush opponent to a Bush supporter. Republicans have to reassure themselves that if 2006 is the usual low turnout midterm election, most independents won't bother to vote.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER: Lou, the story is told that many years ago, the campaign manager for a very unpopular presidential candidate called an Ohio congressional candidate. "I have wonderful news for you," the campaign manager said. "We're going to come to campaign in your district."
"Well, that is good news, the local candidate responded. But I'm afraid I'm going to be in Florida visiting my parents."
"Wait a minute," said the presidential campaign manager. "I haven't told you when we're coming to your district."
"It doesn't matter, the local candidate responded. "Whenever you show up, I'll be in Florida visiting my parents" -- Lou. DOBBS: Bill, the -- implicit in those numbers and the surveys is that President Bush will be a central and determinate factor in the election. Do other polls support that implicit suggestion?
SCHNEIDER: Yes. Polls do indicate that, for many voters, this is about President Bush. And Republicans are worried about that, which is why they're insisting they're borrowing the dictum of Tip O'Neill, the former House speaker, a Democrat, who said all politics is local.
They're insisting, no, it's not going to be about Bush. It's not going to be about national conditions. It's going to be about the local race and the local candidates.
DOBBS: We will see, as they say in your racket. Thanks a lot. Bill Schneider.
More on the Foley scandal ahead here. We'll be joined by three of the country's best political analysts to assess the impact of the upcoming midterms.
Also the congressman who led efforts to secure our southern border with Mexico gives his opinion on plans to build a 700-mile border fence along a 2,000-mile border. We'll have that live report from the border.
A national outcry over the integrity of our voting systems. New fears about e-voting machines. We have fewer than five weeks before the midterm elections. That special report coming up.
And the federal government launching a new assault against millions -- millions of working Americans and the war on the middle class. Nothing less than class warfare. We'll have the latest. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Congressman James Sensenbrenner and fellow House Republicans are on the U.S. border with Mexico tonight. They're there to discuss border security measures they promised and delivered to the American people.
Another tough new local law is on the books tonight, threatening importers with jail time if they hire illegal aliens. Casey Wian tonight reports from Otay Mesa, California, where House Republicans are declaring an important victory on border security.
And Christine Romans reports on Suffolk County, Long Island, New York's tough new crackdown on employers who ignore this nation's immigration laws.
We begin tonight with Casey Wian -- Casey.
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, under this warehouse behind me is a drug-smuggling tunnel that stretches 700 yards into Mexico underneath the border. It's the longest tunnel of its kind ever discovered.
Lawmakers came here today to announce a victory in their effort to pressure President Bush to secure the border.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN (voice-over): For more than two years, President Bush insisted the only way to secure the border was with so-called comprehensive immigration reform, including a guest worker program critics say announced an amnesty for illegal aliens.
Today, the president capitulated, signing a border security only bill.
BUSH: This legislation will give us better tools to enforce our immigration laws and to secure our southern border.
WIAN: The legislation includes $1.2 billion for new border fencing, vehicle barriers, technology and infrastructure; $2.8 billion for the Border Patrol, including 1,500 new Border Patrol agents; $1.4 billion for Immigration and Customs Enforcement to add 6,700 new detention beds.
REP. JAMES SENSENBRENNER (R-WI), CHAIRMAN, JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: Today we are here to say that Congress has heard the American people. And with the Homeland Security Appropriation Bill which was signed this morning in Arizona by President Bush, we have taken major steps towards securing the border and putting our money where our mouth is.
WIAN: And it increases criminal penalties for those involved in constructing drug-smuggling tunnels under the border.
REP. ED ROYCE (R), CALIFORNIA: With this new legislation, to tunnel into the United States becomes a felony crime.
WIAN: The man who pleaded guilty to running a produce business out of this warehouse as a front for the drug smuggling tunnel is expected to be sentenced next week to two and a half years in prison. Under the new law he could have faced 20 years.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: Now, skeptics of the new legislation, including Texas Republican Senator John Cornyn say they doubt the entire 700-mile border fence will ever be fully funded by Congress. But even he concedes this is an important symbolic gesture showing that Congress is finally getting serious about securing the border, Lou.
DOBBS: A leading Republican senator expressing skepticism about successful Republican legislation that was passed over the objections of a Republican president. What's going on out there, Casey?
WIAN: Well, we asked Congressman Sensenbrenner about that, and he reminded the senator that appropriations begin in the House. And as long as Republicans control the House next year, he says they will fully fund that 700-mile border fence, Lou. DOBBS: Casey, thank you very much. Casey Wian reporting from Otay Mesa, California.
A new CNN poll shows a majority of Americans favor building that 700-mile fence along the border with Mexico. In the poll, 54 percent of Americans in favor of the 700-mile border fence; 44 percent are opposed.
It should be noted that Congress has so far appropriated money for only 370 miles of that 700-mile border fence along our 2,000-mile border with Mexico.
Tonight, local governments all across this country are passing tough new measures, punishing employers who knowingly hire illegal aliens. And employers are being arrested for flagrant violations of U.S. immigration laws.
One of the toughest local ordinances against illegal immigration signed into law today in Suffolk County, New York.
Christine Romans reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
STEVE LEVY, SUFFOLK COUNTY EXECUTIVE: This bill is now law.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Signed into law today in Suffolk County, New York, a crackdown on employers of illegal workers. Flanked by union leaders, county executive Steve Levy said he's doing what the federal government should and won't.
LEVY: It's leveling the playing field so that our good companies out that there are trying to do right by their employees are not put at a competitive disadvantage by those companies that cheat and exploit their workers.
ROMANS: Ensuring that county work sites have legal workers. Levy signing into law an ordinance that was easily passed by county lawmakers after hours of sometimes contentious public debate. Levy says his ordinance is designed to prevent discrimination against legal residents.
But Cesar Perales of the Puerto Rican Legal Defense Fund calls the law illegal, unnecessary and discriminatory.
CESAR PERALES, PUERTO RICAN LEGAL DEFENSE FUND: I'm concerned that there's going to be a long-term effect in our society. There's going to be a long-term sense that Latinos are doing something bad to our communities.
ROMANS: He's alarmed that communities across the country are writing their own immigration ordinances. Town officials say they're driven by federal inaction on illegal immigration.
But Perales believes otherwise. PERALES: I think it's primary political. I think that there is a strong sentiment in this country at this moment against immigrants, whether documented or undocumented. And I think that politicians know that. And they want to make sure that they are on the popular side of this issue.
ROMANS: many of these ordinances will be challenged in court.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: The Puerto Rican Legal Defense Fund, the ACLU and others have threatened court challenges of these local ordinances, but local leaders, like Steve Levy in Suffolk County, say with the flood of illegal immigration into their neighborhoods, into their towns, they want to go after the magnet, Lou, and that is the employers.
DOBBS: Without question. And the fact is, as the president suggests, local governments are doing the jobs that federal governments aren't doing. Thanks very much, Christine Romans.
Still ahead here, election officials across this country in a race against time trying to ensure a free and fair vote this November as concerns about e-voting machines are mounting. We'll have that special report and the new ruling that could prevent millions of Americans from the right to join a labor union. Another example of Washington's war on our middle class.
And several states are stepping forward to raise their minimum wage. Again, trying to do the job that Congress and this administration aren't doing. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The public outcry over electronic voting machines is intensifying, election officials only now reconsidering how they will use e-voting equipment with only 33 days left before the midterm election. Some states are still trying to convince their voters there's nothing to worry about with the machines.
Kitty Pilgrim reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Cuyahoga County made itself infamous with its May primary, a demonstration on just how wrong electronic voting can go. Poll workers were poorly trained and confused by the new electronic equipment. Memory cards were lost. Vote tallies didn't match.
And now the county board of elections is requesting help from independent researchers, auditors and citizens to come forward to straighten out election problems and to monitor the results in November.
MICHAEL VU, CUYAHOGA COUNTY BOARD OF ELECTIONS: The only way to learn from past mistakes is by implementing new solutions. So one of the things that we've done is talked with a number of citizen groups as well as interested organizations to get their input to move forward with November's election.
PILGRIM: Citizen groups from all across the country have rallied and formed organization in support of renewed vigilance on electronic voting. Citizens have sued for tighter regulations or to demand a paper trail.
For example, in Colorado, courts just ruled in favor of tightening security on machines and auditing results.
In Indiana, where 65 percent of voters will use touch screen systems, there is an ongoing investigation that one vendor sold uncertified software and electronic voting equipment to the counties.
The secretary of state can't comment on the investigation, but says the testing and certification process has been beefed up.
TODD ROKITA, INDIANA SECRETARY OF STATE: We not only are going to rely on the federal certification, but we're also going to do our own certification from now on. We need more technical expertise to make sure that we can verify what's being sold to us as a state.
PILGRIM: Some election officials are rethinking their blind commitment to the technology that was hastily purchased without critical review.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: And the vigilance is increasing, but many states still have far to go. Larger cities have already made the switch to electronic voting and have some experience with it.
But in the last 12 months, electronic voting has been adopted by smaller jurisdictions. They have fewer resources and often less expertise, and the standards and training are sometimes harder to implement -- Lou.
DOBBS: And whether large or small, the communities across this country, the results are certainly uneven at best over the course of this experience.
Kitty, thank you, as always, for your important reports on our democracy as risk. Kitty Pilgrim.
Still ahead here, Senator Jon Kyl will join us. His says voter security is one of his top priorities. His opponent says Senator Kyl is dead wrong. Senator Kyl will be here. We'll also tell you what happened to his opponent.
Also tonight, another huge setback for middle class Americans, not needed but nonetheless, it's occurring. We'll have that special report.
And will the Foley scandal put an end to the Republican control of Congress? Three of the nation's sharpest political minds join us here to assess that very question. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: A federal appellant court today ruled the Bush administration can continue using warrantless wiretaps. A lower court ruled them unconstitutional in August. The administration appealed the decision. Today's appellant ruling means the government can continuing using those wiretaps while the appeal is further argued, and that could take months.
The Amish community in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania tonight preparing to bury five young girls killed in Monday's schoolhouse shooting. Four of those who were killed, including two sisters, will be buried tomorrow, the fifth on Friday. Five more girls remains hospitalized, three of them in critical condition, and two in serious condition.
Two U.S. pilots could be charged with manslaughter if they are deemed responsible for Brazil's worst aircraft crash. The Brazilian plane went down deep in the Amazon jungle after it collided with those Americans flying an executive jet. The smaller plane did land safely. Brazilian officials now say the American pilots disobeyed an order to descend just before that midair collision.
Tonight Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff is once again trying to outsource our nation's port security. Secretary Chertoff is supporting a new so-called green lane proposal that would eventually allow overseas cargo to enter this country without any screening whatsoever by U.S. customs officials.
Under this plan, some cargo bound for the United States would be screened for radiation at foreign seaports. If the plan works well, they say at DHS cargo would face no further screening for weapons of mass destruction in this country.
U.S. border officials say they'll stop seizing prescription drugs being mailed from Canada as of October 9th. The 11-month old ban has been lifted because of pressure from Congress, and presumably their constituents. Lawmakers said it prevented tens of thousands of American seniors from receiving their much-needed prescriptions at lower prices and forced them to take up protected high prices for those drugs in this country.
Tonight, the National Labor Relations Board has issued a major defeat for this nation's working men and women. In its new ruling, it forbids workers from joining unions if they perform so-called supervisory duties at work. Millions of middle class workers could be affected by the ruling.
Bill Tucker has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): New rules about who's a supervisor has organized labor fighting mad. The National Labor Relations Board now says if an employee tells another what job to do or where to do that job using their authority to do so, they're a supervisor.
The Machinist Union is blunt in its assessment. It says the ruling gives, quote, "the green light for employers to argue that practically any worker who has the authority to assign or direct another is a supervisor, and therefore, ineligible for union membership and the protection of a union contract."
Nursing unions are equally upset. They argue that what's at stake here is much greater than just definition.
CANDICE OWLEY, AFT HEALTHCARE: For the last few years, many of the real dangers that we see in the healthcare system, too many patients to too few nurses, overtime that has created an increase in medical errors -- these are things that unionized nurses have been bringing to attention of the public so when you take away the protection of nurses, you really do take away protections that patients have at the same time.
TUCKER: The AFL-CIO sees the ruling as a disastrous blow to organized labor.
NANCY SCHIFFER, AFL-CIO: Now, they can't organize, they can't have a union, they can't have a voice at work. If they try to organize a union, they can be fired. And so it puts employees in a very different position than they were in before this decision issued.
TUCKER: Business thinks labor is making too much of the ruling. It doesn't see the ruling as coming anywhere close to undercutting labor law.
MICHAEL EASTMAN, U.S. CHAMBER OF COMMERCE: This is a much more measured decision by the National Labor Relations Board than organized labor is making it out to be. If it is a victory for employers, it's a victory with a small v.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: The ruling passed by a vote of 3-2. The three Bush appointees on the Labor Relations Board voted in favor of the change. Two Democrats dissented. And, Lou, the estimations of who and how many people would be affected very widely, businesses, hundreds of thousands. There are eight million by the AFL-CIO, and the two dissenting members on the NLRB say 34 million workers could be affected by this.
DOBBS: Extraordinary. The last five years in this country have not been kind to labor unions, nor for that matter, the last 20 years in this country. Thank you very much, Bill Tucker.
For more on my thoughts about the war on the middle class, please take a look at my commentary today on our Web site, LouDobbs.com.
Now, the subject of our poll tonight. Is border and port security a priority in deciding whom you will vote for in the upcoming midterm elections? Yes or no. We'd like to know. Cast your vote at LouDobbs.com. We'll have those results here later in the broadcast. Up next, illegal immigration sparking a war of words in one hotly contested Senate race. Arizona incumbent Jon Kyl joins us here. We'll be talking about the Senate and his record.
President Bush stumping for local GOP candidates. We'll ask three of the best political analysts in the country what the prospects are now for Republicans and, oh yes, for Democrats. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Border security is a top issue in this hotly contested U.S. Senate race in midterm congressional races, but particularly so in Arizona.
In Arizona, incumbent Republican Senator Jon Kyl against his Democratic opponent Jim Pederson. Senator Kyl is the chairman of the Republican Policy Committee. The powerful Republican senator fought aggressively for passage of a 700-mile border fence. He co-wrote legislation outlawing mortar tunnels. His opponent is labeling him, however, soft on border security. Senator Kyl joins us tonight from Phoenix, Arizona.
Senator, good to have you with us.
SEN. JON KYL (R), ARIZONA: Thank evening, Lou. Thank you.
DOBBS: I want to be very clear with everyone. We invited your opponent, Mr. Pederson to join us here. He declined, and we regret that. I'm sure that the folks in Arizona watching this broadcast -- we all regret it.
You are right now being accused by Mr. Pederson of being soft on border security. He says that you talk tough, but not getting anything done. How do you respond?
KYL: Well, I think you know better, Lou. First of all, as you said, I did fight for this border fence, both on the bill that just passed, as well as a previous bill that we had. I fought hard for the funding to make sure that we can build the fence as well as all of these vehicle barriers and the other things we need to prevent illegal entry into the country.
As you know, I chair the Terrorism and Homeland Security Subcommittee where we've held numerous hearings on the issue, some of which have resulted in legislation, such as the making it illegal to build a tunnel under the border. Believe it or not, that hadn't been illegal before, so now that's going to be a crime.
As a matter of fact, in just my first term in the Senate, I sponsored the legislation that doubled the number of Border Patrol agents at that time. And of course, we've been working ever since then to get more agents on the border.
DOBBS: Senator, your colleague and friend, however, Senator John Cornyn of Texas saying, you know, we funded it, we passed that border fence, but he doesn't think anything much will be done with it. He was certainly downplaying its effectiveness. He was downplaying its importance, which is kind of surprising to some folks.
But with all the consternation in the Republican Senate, all that's going on in this country, almost anything could happen. How do you feel? Is it going to be effective? Is it going to get done? And is the Republican Party willing to overrun its president and say we're going to get this done first and foremost?
KYL: Well, I think you've seen by the fact that the House and Senate passed the legislation -- and there were a lot of people on the Democratic side who were up for election this year that voted for it -- I think they know where the American people stand. The president signed the legislation, and proof of the fact that we're actually going to get it done is the president signed today here in Arizona the bill that begins the funding for it.
Now, that's funding for just one year of activity, but we're going to get a great start on that this year. And I talked to Secretary Chertoff just four or five days ago who said that he believes he can build the first 371 miles of the fence within a three- year period of time. So and I think Congress will appropriate the money for that, no question.
DOBBS: All right. And will the Republican leadership, particularly in the Senate, tell the president and everybody who wants to talk about comprehensive immigration reform, i.e. amnesty, to stick it until we do secure our borders and ports?
KYL: We might use different terminology than that, but the bottom line is, I think the message has gotten through pretty loud and clear that we're going to start with border security, and that starts with building more fencing. That's what we've accomplished this year, and again, that's in response to what the people wanted. And I think that counts for a lot.
DOBBS: The people also want -- they want to see I think in this country, it's pretty clear, they want to see this middle class, who's under outright assault by public policies, whether it be free trade, whether it be manufacturing policies and taxation policies. Is this Congress, in your judgment, with this administration, has it got anything to brag about in terms of jobs for working Americans?
We've seen wages actually decline over the last six years. We're watching a ruling out of the Bush administration with three of its representatives on the Labor Relations Board working against the interests of millions of workers, in point of fact. How are you going to approach that issue in your campaign there in Arizona?
KYL: First of all, according to the Treasury Department, wages have increased in the last six years. And when you add into that benefits, the increase is the largest in many, many years. And I think you do need to add benefits like health insurance when you're talking about the compensation for our middle classes, as you put it.
Here is an important thing, Lou. You know that the tax rate relief that the Bush administration proposed and Congress adopted has done a lot to not only stimulate economic growth and job creation, but it's been good for families.
And here's the proof. If people like my Democratic opponent prevailed and those tax increases fell off the table, we didn't extend them, the average American family, average income, two kids, two parents would see their tax bill increase by 58 percent.
DOBBS: And we're going to have to leave it there because we're out of time. I would like to debate with you about wages and that Treasury Department report compared to the Census Bureau data, as well as...
KYL: We'll get together again.
DOBBS: ... the Commerce Department. We thank you for being here.
KYL: You bet.
DOBBS: We regret that your opponent couldn't join us. I hope for the sake of the citizens of Arizona that he joins you in a strong debate there in the state of Arizona. Thanks for being here, Senator Kyl.
KYL: You bet.
DOBBS: A reminder now to vote on our poll. Is border and port security a priority in your decision as to whom you will vote for in the midterm elections? Yes or no? Please cast your votes at LouDobbs.com. We're very much interested in your response to this question, and we'll have the results coming here in just a few moments.
Just ahead, the Foley scandal has sent shock waves through the GOP. We'll be talking with our political analysts about how this will affect who wins the Congress in November and a great deal more. Please stay with us.
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DOBBS: Congress has failed to pass legislation to raise the minimum wage now for 10 years running. Now, six states are taking that issue straight to the voters with new ballot initiatives that would raise their state minimum wages. And according to a Pew research study, 83 percent of Americans favor raising the minimum wage, which Congress has refused to do, as I said, for a decade now.
Joining me now, three of the sharpest political minds in the country. Former White House political director, Republican strategist Ed Rollins. Michael Goodwin, Pulitzer Prize winning columnist, "New York Daily News." Democratic strategist Hank Sheinkopf. Thanks for being here, gentlemen.
Let's take a quick look at a poll, and that poll shows 57 percent -- if we could see that -- 57 percent opposing Bush. That's who they would vote for; 37 would vote for a candidate supporting Bush. That's CNN Opinion Research Corporation. That looks like a disaster for the Republican running for office. Is it?
MICHAEL GOODWIN, NEW YORK DAILY NEWS: I would certainly hate to be a Republican running right now. I mean, given what's going on not only in Iraq, but with the situation with the Congress and Mark Foley, it is a disaster.
However, we have five more weeks to go I think until the election. And as I said before, this is like a bad football game. The team that makes the last mistake will lose. So there's five more weeks for somebody else to make a bigger mistake.
DOBBS: That sounds like a suggestion of great pyrotechnics, the way Michael sees it, because it looks like a lot of mistakes are already cued up here in both parties.
HANK SHEINKOPF, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Yes, but the Republicans are in much worse position. They start out behind the goal line. They got a real problem. They've been pushed back. They need help pretty quick.
The real issue too for them -- and the poll doesn't indicate that -- is what happens with ideological conservatives on election day? Are they going to come out to defend this Republican Party? This is not the Republican Party that they signed on for. They signed up for a party that has real ability to make security and has moral convictions.
DOBBS: Are you suggesting that ideological liberals are very comfortable with what they have as a Democratic Party?
SHEINKOPF: No, I'm not, but I'm saying they're a lot more comfortable than ideological conservatives are right now. That's part of the problem the Republicans face.
DOBBS: Why is that, Ed?
ED ROLLINS, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, first of all, I think Democrats do have their intensity. I do think that they think they're going to get the Congress back, which is very important to them.
You know, there's probably going to be 35 million fewer voters in this election than there was in 2004. That was the drop-off -- was the drop-off from 2000. And my sense is that a giant group of conservative voters dropped off when they found out, at least according to Karl Rove's estimates, when they found out that George Bush had a drunk driving arrest in the closing days of the campaign.
So now we have a party that allegedly has a pedophile who basically was sitting in the Congress sending e-mails instead of voting to pages. And when the story gets finished, we may have been trying to protect him. So I think there's going to be a drop off.
And I think then if you look at the other parts of it where we weren't fiscally conservative, where we did a lot of things that we shouldn't have, I'm very worried about our side turning out and that's obviously what will do us in. DOBBS: You're worried about your side turning out. Let me ask you this question. Let me ask each of you, I understand the political impulse there. But since this administration and this Congress have done none of the things that you were just charging is important to a person with that ideology and philosophy, why would you care about the outcome of the election?
ROLLINS: I still don't want Democrats to take back the Congress and I think that's the only thing that keeps motivating me. I think my party gets a big D minus on the things that matter to me most. They're not physically conservative and I think that they -- but I think the thing that's also scary that no one's talked about is voters are actually starting to vote.
We now have a lot of voters who vote by absentee ballot. And there are a lot of people now already starting to get their ballots and they're starting to cast ballots right today. And they're not going to get those four or five more weeks.
DOBBS: I feel better about those ballots. We've done 36 reports since June on e-voting. I feel better about those folks voting absentee right now because at least there's a paper trail. We have every reasonable expectation that they're going to be counted. What are the Democrats going to do differently than these disappointing Republicans?
SHEINKOPF: I'm not an expert on public policy, but I am an expert on politics. And what I will tell you is you're going to see relief for middle class people, that's for sure. And you'll see less concern about the people who make a lot of money and more concern about those who need to have some help to get up the ladder.
DOBBS: That would be nice and I think it's refreshing that we have that opportunity, as you suggest in this country to divorce our policies from our politics. I'm not sure that's the healthiest way in which we could operate.
GOODWIN: And I think as we go down the stretch here, we're not going to see a lot of policy. I think it's going to be pure politics and I think it's going to be the politics of fear on both sides. The Republicans are going to say if the Democrats take Congress, x, y and z is going to happen.
Tax increases, impeachment, surrender in Iraq. The Republicans of course -- Democrats are going to have their own litany of fears if Republicans stay in Congress. More corruption, blah, blah, blah. So I think the politics of fear is going to be the theme for both campaigns.
DOBBS: Democrats had a big game plan. They thought they were going to run against the war and the White House thought they were going to counter run on homeland security. Both of those things have kind of dropped off the last several weeks.
And now we're onto other things and I would argue in the next two to three weeks, other things are going to come to the forefront and I think right today, it would not be a good election for us. Four weeks from now, who knows what's going to happen?
SHEINKOPF: There's no way the Foley scandal is going to get off the front page.
ROLLINS: Oh, I don't think so.
SHEINKOPF: The Republicans should plan for it and the Democrats certainly didn't wish this kind of thing to happen.
DOBBS: How does that really translate? I'm wondering If I walk into a polling booth, voting for my congressman, my senator, my governor, how does Mark Foley figure into my political calculus?
SHEINKOPF: Simple. Things are out of control. The people running the Congress are not running it and by the way, the Republicans who are supposed to give me moral values have failed to protect people. There's something wrong there.
DOBBS: Don't get me started on values. But I just want to throw this out, because you guys are the experts and I just want to throw this out. I have a feeling, maybe it's more hope, that people are going to walk into that polling booth and they're going to say, what kind of economy have we got?
What are the policies? What's happening to jobs or public education? What in the world are they doing about border security and port security? We've got more than 2,700 Americans dead in Iraq. And when I cut through all of the nonsense, those are the things that hit me in the gut. How -- do you think that voters are just going to discount that, Hank?
SHEINKOPF: No. I don't think they're going to discount it, Lou, but there's a general sense in the air of something being out of control, that it is not right. And the Republicans promised that they would have a strong military, be secure and move forward and keep us in moral bearing. They failed. That's what people are going to remember. It's all part of the same line.
ROLLINS: The bottom line is that Congress's biggest job is to pass budgets. They failed to pass anything except homeland security and defense. They took 20 minutes to pass a $400 million plus budget and I think at the end of the day, they failed to do their job effectively.
GOODWIN: I think Mark Foley will matter in the end, but I don't think it will be nearly as hot a topic as it is today. I think that something else will replace it. It will fade. I don't think it will be in the front page in two weeks even.
DOBBS: I take it none of you is calling for a Republican landslide come November?
GOODWIN: Mudslide.
ROLLINS: I'll settle for break even.
DOBBS: Ed Rollins, Hank Sheinkopf, Michael Goodwin. We'll remind him of that later this week. Thank you, gentlemen.
Coming up here next, "THE SITUATION ROOM" with Wolf Blitzer -- Wolf?
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks very much, Lou. A lurid e-mail scandal, an allegation of a cover up. Much more coming up on another resignation on Capitol Hill leading now to more questions about who knew what and when. And there's pressure right now rising on the speaker of the House to step down.
Also, Iraq blood bath, 19 more U.S. troops killed in the first four days of October and death squads now roaming with the help of local police. We're taking you to Baghdad.
Plus "State of Denial," Bob Woodward here in "THE SITUATION ROOM." I'll ask him some of the tough questions about the war in Iraq and President Bush.
And Bill Maher one-on-one. He's also joining me to cut through the spin of Washington politics. All that coming up right here in "THE SITUATION ROOM."
DOBBS: Wolf, thank you very much, look forward to it. Coming up next here, the results of our poll. More of your thoughts including your continued outrage over the rising number of our troops being killed in both Iraq and Afghanistan. Stay with us.
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DOBBS: The results of our poll tonight, 89 percent of you say border and port security will be a priority in your decision about whom you will vote for in the upcoming elections.
Let's take a look at some of your thoughts.
Wanda in Texas saying: "Lou, you and Bill Moyers are standing up for those whose voice is drowned out by the corrupt politicians of this country. The fine men and women being injured and killed in Iraq and Afghanistan are being treated as no more than cannon fodder by an administration and Congress without compassion or conscience, who are betraying them by turning this country over to unscrupulous corporations for their own enrichment. Shame on all of them."
And Dennis in Utah: "Dear, Lou. If a congressman does something wrong, it's inappropriate behavior. If a U.S. citizen does the same thing, it's a crime punishable up to 20 years in prison."
And Al in California: "If the Republicans and the Democrats would spend half as much time closing our borders as they do fighting one another, the U.S. would be in a lot better shape."
We love hearing from you. Send us your thoughts on any subject to LouDobbs.com. And each of you who's e-mail is read here received a copy of Senator Byron Dorgan's new book, "Take This Job and Ship It." We thank you for being with us tonight. Please be with us tomorrow. For all of us here, thanks for watching. Good night from New York. Houston police chief Harold Hurtt will be among our guests to discuss his city's response to the murder of a veteran police officer. "THE SITUATION ROOM" begins right now with Wolf Blitzer -- Wolf.
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