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Ethics Committee Members Comment on Foley Scandal After Closed Meeting; House Speaker Dennis Hastert to Ask Former FBI Director Louie Freeh to Head Probe of Page Scandal

Aired October 05, 2006 - 13:54   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Members of the House Ethics Committee coming out of the closed door session. Let's listen in.
REP. RICHARD "DOC" HASTINGS (R-WA), CHAIRMAN, HOUSE COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS OF OFFICIAL CONDUCT: Good afternoon.

Earlier today the House Ethics Committee voted unanimously to establish an investigative subcommittee regarding any conduct of House members, officers and staff related to information concerning improper conduct involving members and current and former pages.

Given the seriousness of this issue and this matter, Congressman Howard Berman and I will serve as the chairman and ranking minority member of the subcommittee in order to personally direct this investigation. Representatives Judy Biggert and Stephanie Tubbs Jones will serve with us on the subcommittee and we will be assisted by a team of skilled investigators.

Like all Americans, we are both appalled at the revelations of highly improper communication between former Congressman Representative Mark Foley and a young man who came to know Mr. Foley while working here in the Capitol as a congressional page.

Appointment as a page in the House is an honor and privilege for any young man or woman and provides an extraordinary education into the workings of the legislative branch of government. All of us who serve here as members of Congress appreciate the important role that pages play in the work in the House.

We owe all pages and their parents our best efforts to make the page experience as educational, fulfilling and safe as possible.

In recent days, the adequacy of those efforts have been called into question.

Simply put, the American people, and especially the parents of all current and former pages, are entitled to know how this situation was handled. And we are determined to answer their questions.

Congressman Berman and I will do so as quickly as possible. And we pledge to you that our investigation will go wherever the evidence leads us.

Admittedly, this is a busy time for any member of Congress. But Howard and I have agreed that we have no higher priority in the days ahead and are committed to act accordingly.

Indeed, shortly following the meeting of the full House Ethics Committee, our new investigative subcommittee met for the first time and unanimously approved nearly four dozen subpoenas for documents and testimony.

Many of the individuals we plan to talk to are members, officers and staffs of the House. For that reason, we sincerely hope that most of the subpoenas we authorize today will prove unnecessary. Because we believe that most of these individuals share our desire to get quick and truthful answers to the questions that are being asked by so many Americans.

Howard?

HOWARD BERMAN (D-CA), RANKING MEMBER, HOUSE COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS OF OFFICIAL CONDUCT: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I just -- this was a joint statement on -- Chairman Hastings read on behalf of both of us. I just want to add a few points.

In terms of time frame, we are looking at weeks, not months. I want to reemphasize the point that the chairman made, that we will go where the evidence takes us.

And I want to say that when I was appointed ranking minority member by Leader Pelosi, I indicated at that time I wanted no part of an incumbent protection agency.

After five and a half months of working with -- very closely with Chairman Hastings on a variety of issues, most of which you appropriately do not know anything about, at least at this time, I'm convinced that both of us, as well as Judy Biggert and Stephanie Tubbs Jones, we all have strong partisan feelings. We have passionate concerns about issues. We have ideological and philosophical differences.

But that on this committee, and for purposes of this investigation, we are going to put those partisan considerations totally aside, as we have -- as I have seen and witnessed from the chairman during the past five and a half months.

And I do want to introduce the gentleman who will be leading the staff in the investigation of this matter, William O'Reilly.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, sir. Mr. Chairman.

QUESTION: What can you tell us about Republican -- allegations the Republican leaders knew about Mr. Foley's activities for sometime?

HASTINGS: Well, as we mentioned in the statement, we're going to look at all the information that obviously is public and we're going to go forward and see where that evidence leads. But obviously, we can't comment on that at this point.

QUESTION: There were reports that... (CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: ... independent counsel to have an investigation. I'm wondering, how many investigations will there be into this matter, or does that get into more investigations?

HASTINGS: We're going to do what we feel that we were charged to do by the resolution on the floor last week.

QUESTION: But did you know about (INAUDIBLE)?

HASTINGS: Only what the press reports have said.

QUESTION: Based on the revelations of this week, can you tell us whether the speaker still enjoys the full support of the Republican majority?

HASTINGS: I will simply say that he has made his statement and members have made their statement. I'd certainly go along with that.

QUESTION: Did you consider at all hiring an outside counsel or investigator?

HASTINGS: We are going to do what we will we are charged to do.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE) did you consider?

BERMAN: I just -- speaking for myself, and having worked with him now for five months, I have a great deal of confidence in -- in Bill O'Reilly (ph) and his staff's ability to do this in a vigorous, effective, intelligent, quick, and nonpartisan way.

QUESTION: So the answer is no...

QUESTION: Mr. Chairman -- Mr. Chairman, you said four dozen subpoenas. Is the speaker among those?

HASTINGS: We're not going to get into any of that detail at this point.

QUESTION: You said weeks, not months.

QUESTION: You said weeks, not months. Is there a particular -- jinx.

(LAUGHTER)

QUESTION: Weeks, not months. I mean, how -- how important is it that it's done expeditiously and...

HASTINGS: We feel it is very important for the institution to get this done as quickly as possible. And we -- we agree on that. As a matter of fact, the full committee, in appointing the investigative subcommittee, felt exactly the same way.

QUESTION: Will it be done before the election? (CROSSTALK)

HASTINGS: We're simply going to work as quickly as we possibly can.

QUESTION: Mr. Chairman, will the committee have any interest in talking to some of the (INAUDIBLE)?

HASTINGS: We can't get into that either.

QUESTION: Mr. Chairman, the committee usually defers to the FBI or law enforcement in terms of the criminal investigation. Why (INAUDIBLE)?

BERMAN: Our jurisdiction for this investigative subcommittee is -- was laid out by the chairman. It's dealing with the conduct as a result of the actions.

We do not have jurisdiction over former congressman Foley, because he's no longer a member of the House. We are -- we are dealing with a fundamental institutional issue that we think was placed squarely in the hands of the Ethics Committee, both by the House's action last Friday and by any logical interpretation of the rules.

QUESTION: Do you think the House has been damaged by this?

HASTINGS: Well, the role of the Ethics Committee is to make sure that the American people have trust in their government, and that's -- that's our role. We take that very, very seriously.

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: Do you still personally support the speaker?

HASTINGS: I think the speaker has done an excellent job.

QUESTION: What are the potential penalties that folks would face under this?

HASTINGS: We can't get into that.

QUESTION: The speaker set up a page hotline. I'm wondering, will you guys be answering those calls or...

HASTINGS: I can't really comment on that either.

QUESTION: Will the subcommittee operate (INAUDIBLE)?

BERMAN: It's -- it's slightly different than the ordinary investigative subcommittee, which has a specific person as the target. The jurisdiction here is a subject matter, and we'll see what flows from that. But our first effort is to conduct this subject matter investigation.

QUESTION: Do you have a date on (INAUDIBLE)? HASTINGS: We just have the one subcommittee now and...

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: Do you have a date for the responses?

BERMAN: These are the details we're just not going to discuss.

HASTINGS: We're just not going to talk about it.

BERMAN: We think this is important enough where we've made a tremendous exception to our general rule about not ever looking -- coming out and talking to you folks, because of the importance of the issue. But -- but in terms of confidentiality and process, we're going to operate -- we think we have to operate in the -- in the traditional way of doing our investigation quietly and without announcing it of -- until we're finished.

QUESTION: Every day for the next -- how long?

HASTINGS: We need to be aggressive as we possibly can.

QUESTION: Does your jurisdiction extend to staffers as well as current members, or just members?

HASTINGS: Yes, our responsibility is for the House.

BERMAN: Members, officers and staff.

QUESTION: Mr. Hastings, in other cases there have been public hearings as a result of the findings of the subcommittee. Is there a possibility that there may be public hearings?

HASTINGS: I just don't want to make a comment on this point.

QUESTION: Can you amplify on the importance of the issue? And you said that's the rationale for why the committee is breaking its long-standing tradition. What is the importance of the issue?

BERMAN: We're dealing with children.

QUESTION: Into the microphone, please.

BERMAN: I'm sorry. We're dealing with -- with children. We are -- the Congress is in local parentis here. There appears to be something has gone terribly wrong, and -- and -- and because of that, we think it's a deep concern to every member of the -- of the committee.

QUESTION: Mr. Hastings, can you comment on the page program in general? How do you feel that that works and should that be expanded or reviewed?

HASTINGS: I think the page program, as I mentioned in my statement, is a very important program, not only for -- for the members of Congress, but also for the individuals that participate in the page program. I think it's an integral part of our program.

QUESTION: Mr. Hastings, you said the speaker has done an excellent job. But do you question his leadership at all, personally?

HASTINGS: Listen, I don't want to get into all of that. We are here to talk about what the Ethics Committee is going to do regarding the incidents that happened last week, and that's where we're -- that's what we want to focus on.

QUESTION: Can you tell us how long the full committee met this morning and then how long the subcommittee met?

HASTINGS: We met -- we started at 10:00, yes. Probably roughly two hours for the full committee and maybe a little bit longer. And maybe a little bit longer than that, or an hour and a half or so on the subcommittee.

QUESTION: You said the speaker has done an excellent job. Can you really be objective in assessing what blame he might have as a result of this matter?

HASTINGS: Well, yes. We are going to -- I just -- what we want to do is focus on -- on what is at hand, and we take that responsibility very, very seriously. And that's what I'm going to focus on.

BERMAN: I -- I mean, these questions, I think, get to the point I was trying to make. We have -- we all have strong feelings about -- about party, about issues, about philosophy. But for purposes of this investigation, those feelings are irrelevant. And I think that's all that the chairman and I are trying to say.

We all, in some other context, can answer all other kinds of questions about what we think are going on, but for this purpose, those aren't the questions that we should be asked.

QUESTION: Mr. Foley is no longer a congressman. Does that (INAUDIBLE) investigating his past actions. And you said he's not in your jurisdiction, and I'm having trouble understanding.

HASTINGS: I'm sorry?

QUESTION: You said Mr. Foley is not in your jurisdiction, but you can still investigate his past actions as relates to...

HASTINGS: The responsibility of the Ethics Committee is for members of Congress. He's no longer a member of Congress. But clearly actions leading up to that are items of interest that we'll be looking at.

QUESTION: Can you address -- just to get back to the earlier question, people from the -- outside Washington looking at this would say, this is a group of folks who are investigating people they know, some of you have received campaign contributions from people who you might be investigating. How can -- how can the American public be confident that this is going to be an objective investigation? HASTINGS: Let me -- let me -- let me -- let Stephanie respond to that, because...

I'm Stephanie Tubbs Jones. I come from Cleveland, Ohio.

REP. STEPHANIE TUBBS JONES (D), OHIO: Regardless of relationships, we as members of this committee have a responsibility to the House and to the public. I bring to this podium eight -- 10 years as a judge, eight years as an elected D.A. from Cuyahoga County, Ohio, and my eight years in Congress, and my reputation is too important to put it aside for purposes of some friendship or regardless of what we have. We have a job to do and we've got to do our job.

QUESTION: And Mrs. Biggert, you were very close to the speaker. You've been close to him over a long number of years. And we'd like to have you talk about your relationship with him here in Congress and how impartial you can be.

REP. JUDY BIGGERT (R), ILLINOIS: I'm Judy Biggert from District 13 in Illinois, and my -- my district does abut the speaker's district. But I think that all of us on this committee were chosen because we are thought to be fair. We're thought to be ethical and have a high integrity. And it's -- it's like being a judge or being a jury, that we have to have -- where we look at this kind of situation, and we have to be impartial.

And I think that no matter who serves on this committee takes this job very seriously. It is peer review, and it is looking at our -- our colleagues. And we are chosen for that specifically.

And I know it's difficult, but we're looking at a great number of people, not just one specific person. And, first of all, we have to establish the facts. And the facts will lead us to who -- if there is someone who perhaps did a cover-up.

So first we have to establish who knew what, who did it, and -- and why. And what action they took.

So I'm not going to, you know, talk about any one person. It makes no difference. The evidence will lead us, as the chairman said, to find the -- find the facts as they stand and take action that is needed.

QUESTION: What kind of -- what kind of sanctions are available or actions are available to the committee, particularly with relation to somebody who (INAUDIBLE) that you can take based on your investigations? Outline the range of things that you could do.

BERMAN: I think it's very important to get this straight. The committee, under House rules and committee rules, has the authority to discipline members, staff, officers up to expulsion in terms of members -- but censure, reprimand. This investigation initially -- and there's a whole process for that.

At this point, what we're launching is an investigation into this whole affair, without a specific target. But, because Mark Foley has left the Congress, we don't have the authority to discipline him in any way.

The reason what happened is relevant is because there are people now who have responsibilities, and we're just -- we're gathering the facts which are related to his conduct to make judgments. And that's what -- that's what we'll be doing.

QUESTION: Do you have the authority to subpoena Mark Foley?

BERMAN: We have the authority to subpoena anybody in the territory of the United States. We do not yet have extraterritorial jurisdiction.

BIGGERT: You have to remember that we are not -- we're not prosecuting. We are not the U.S. attorney. We are only to look at the rules of the House and were they violated, and did someone bring disrespect on the House of Representatives. And that's our charge.

The FBI is already involved. The Department of Justice is involved. And they may take, you know, a completely different action than we do, but our -- we look -- we are only involved with the House rules.

QUESTION: Could there be other members involved in similar behavior? And what's the scope of your investigation?

HASTINGS: Well, we simply -- again, that's part of what the -- what the -- what we are endeavoring to do.

I want to thank you all for coming. Before I -- before we quit here, I just simply want to say that the remarks that I made regarding Speaker Hastert is not related to the matter at hand here.

Thank you very much for being here.

QUESTION: Can we get an update on your other investigation?

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: All right. You were just looking at press conference from the House Ethics Committee.

Basically what's coming out of that, the House Ethics Committee today announced that they will be launching -- they voted unanimously to launch an independent subcommittee investigation into any member of Congress who may have had inappropriate relationships with pages and anyone who may have known anything about the Mark Foley investigation. The House Ethics Committee saying that they are -- they have -- they are seeking at least four dozen subpoenas for documents and testimony in the congressional page sex scandal.

And when asked about Denny Hastert, House Speaker Denny Hastert, was he among those who would be subpoenaed, of course the person leading up this press conference, who is Doc Hastings -- he's the chairman of the Ethics Committee -- he said he would not comment on that. And speaking of House Speaker Dennis Hastert, we're awaiting a press conference with him. Also coming out of that, we believe that he will announce an independent investigation by the FBI, Louis Freeh.

For more on that now, let's head to Congressional Correspondent Dana Bash, standing by on Capitol Hill.

What are you gleaning from this information that you heard from this, Dana?

DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, let's start with what you just were talking about, about the speaker tapping the former FBI director, Louie Freeh. What we understand is that that the speaker is speaking about and wants Louie Freeh to look into the page program, perhaps the page school.

At this point, frankly, it's unclear exactly where -- where he wants Louie Freeh to go, but we understand from a Republican source that what they are thinking is that Louie Freeh should be looking into the page program and to do a review of the page program. More details on that, of course, when we actually hear from the speaker himself. But we do understand that Louie Freeh is somebody who Denny Hastert wants to tap to bring in to try to help him with this major political problem that he has, especially when it comes to the page program.

Now, on this press conference we were just listening to, I think what was -- what was most interesting is the fact that they were having this press conference. The House Ethics Committee is a committee that very much deals in secret, is not usually forthcoming about what they -- what they do, and they really made that point in this press conference.

They also, in terms of the timeline, said that this was going to be an investigation that will weeks, not months. They really want to try to step this up. And certainly from the Democrats, they are getting a lot of pressure to do this fast, because Democrats have already been suggesting that they don't want this to wait until after the election to get some kind of resolution, saying -- they said that they are -- have worked on four dozen subpoenas, and also that they've set up a subcommittee to investigate the conduct of lawmakers towards pages.

So, this is something that they are -- that they say that they are being aggressive with and that they will take where the evidence leads them.

LEMON: And Dana, Doc Hastings did support the speaker of the House. He said he thinks he's doing an excellent job.

BASH: You know, that -- he did say that. He was pressed, as you and I both heard, several times from reporters, because he was the only Republican -- he was the Republican in the room. And of course when you see a Republican these days, that's the first question you ask them is, whether you support the speaker.

But he also made clear that this is sort of a tough position for him, because he is a Republican, but he's also trying to head this probe, where, they didn't say who they're going to be talking to, but it's hard to imagine that considering the fact that this all surrounds the speaker's office and top aides to the speaker and other members of the leadership, that they won't be talking to the speaker's staff, if not the speaker himself.

So, it's certainly a tough position, but he answered that question as a Republican. He says he supports the speaker.

LEMON: Dana Bash.

And, of course, our thinking here -- our thinking here is that the speaker may have been waiting to hear what the Ethics Committee had to say before he comes out.

Thank you, Dana Bash.

We are monitoring Batavia, Illinois, to see when House Speaker Denny Hastert will come out and address reporters about what he's going to do. He's expected to announce that former FBI director Louie Freeh will conduct an investigation into this scandal.

Now, a new attempt at damage control. House Speaker Dennis Hastert issued a statement today taking responsibility for House pages and announcing a page program tip line.

Quoting from Hastert's statement, "As the speaker, I take responsibility for everything in the building. The buck stops here. The safety and security of students in the page program is imperative."

Now, the same statement announced the activation of a tip line. And here's that tip line phone number. It's 1-866-348-0481.

Hastert said it can be used to report any information about what he called the Foley matter or any problems with the live -- with the page program.

Now, expect to hear, as we said, from House Speaker Denny Hastert any time within the hour, and we'll bring it to you, of course, live as soon as that happens -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: So where is ethics in all of this? We're going to talk to somebody just about that right after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Less than 10 minutes away, we're told, before House Speaker Dennis Hastert steps up to the mic.

We've heard a number of things that could come out in this news conference. Possibly be talking about this independent investigation with former FBI director Louie Freeh to look into the Mark Foley scandal and these e-mails and instant messages that were exchanged with young pages there on the Hill. Also, as you know, there have been calls for his resignation. We're hoping to find out more about what he plans to do with regard to his position, his job there on the Hill. As soon as that happens, we will take it there live.

Meanwhile, we've been talking about the law, that's one thing. Personal standards, that's another. And somewhere in the vast, fuzzy middle, well, there lies ethics.

Randy Cohen writes the ethics column for "The New York Times Magazine". He joins me from New York with his take on the Mark Foley scandal.

Good to have you, Randy.

And just real quickly, I want to go back to the House Ethics Committee and the news conference that they held. And one thing that was asked to a number of these leaders from one of the reporters is, "How impartial can you be when you are there on the Hill and you're talking about one of our own?" And I thought that it was pretty powerful what Stephanie Tubbs Jones from Ohio had to say.

Let's just take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JONES: Regardless of relationships, we as members of this committee have a responsibility to the House and to the public. I bring to this podium eight -- 10 years as a judge, eight years as an elected D.A. from Cuyahoga County, Ohio, and my eight years in Congress. And my reputation is too important to put it aside for purposes of some friendship or regardless of what we have.

We have a job to do, and we've got to do our job.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Randy, can the American public depend on this committee and its investigation?

RANDY COHEN, ETHICIST: It does make one a little uneasy, doesn't it? In no other aspect of life would we permit people to investigate themselves, to conduct an investigation of people they know and work with every day. That it's not that we doubt Representative Jones' integrity -- we have no reason to do that -- but a real impartial investigation would mean recusing yourself when you know the people involved.

PHILLIPS: Interesting. So you think that this committee investigating this scandal is not the answer?

COHEN: No. But, of course, it's not the only thing that's being done.

There are criminal investigations that are being contemplated, other investigations will take place. And it's always a pleasure to see the House Ethics Committee roused from its slumber and staggering into action. But it's hard to have a great deal of confidence in self-investigation.

PHILLIPS: And you're right, there is the Ethics Committee, in addition to what you just said, other investigations, Department of Justice. Now we're hearing that Louie Freeh, former FBI director, will be called in to help with an independent investigation.

Is it important to have all of these investigations, or does it need to be one independent investigation? Can these all somehow work together? Does it make it more confusing, more complex?

COHEN: The important thing is not so much the methodology. I think it's the quality of the actual investigations.

Investigations can do many things. They can actually investigate and get to the truth expeditiously, or they can be a way of putting matters aside, putting matters to rest. "We'll appoint a committee to look into it" can be a way to obscure the facts, as well as get at the facts.

What will this one do? We'll see.

PHILLIPS: And as you and I are talking, we are expecting the House speaker, Dennis Hastert, to step up to the mic in less than five minutes, Randy. So we'll -- we'll keep talking until he steps up to the mic, and then we'll listen and discuss what he has to say.

How far do you go with this investigation with regard to Mark Foley? Do you -- well, a two-part question here. First of all, do you go back and interview every single male page that has gone through that program since Mark Foley has been in office?

COHEN: Well, you certainly can begin by talking to the people that seem to have had direct contact or e-mail or electronic message contact with Representative Foley. I think you start there and see where the investigation takes you.

PHILLIPS: How far do you go into Foley's past? Do you -- do you investigate even before he became a congressman?

COHEN: You mean when he was a little boy?

PHILLIPS: Well...

COHEN: You investigate to see if he was...

PHILLIPS: We've already seen the pictures of him as an altar boy. You know, we're already seeing pictures of him as a young kid and talking about his religious beliefs and the fact that his lawyer has come forward and said he's been molested by a clergyman. It seems we are going pretty far back at this point.

COHEN: You mean, "I didn't do it, but if I did, I was drunk. And anyway, a very bad priest led me to do it"? The committee's job isn't to investigate his motives so much as it is to investigate his conduct. Not his inner life, but his behavior.

Ethics isn't concerned with your thoughts, your dream life, your interior life. It's concerned with what you do, and the affects of your actions on others. And I think that's what the committee should and will concern itself with.

PHILLIPS: Taking a look at just how this has happened, what does it say about the culture on the Hill with regard to -- I mean, a lot of Americans are saying, see, it's a good-old-boy network. These secrets, unless they are exposed through a reporter or someone comes forward and finally admits to something happening, see, look at this culture, there are so many secrets.

And how can -- you know, how can we stand for this? How can we continue to put up for this? Where are the ethics? Where's the accountability?

COHEN: I think that's a really good point, and in many ways to my -- to me, that's the most important point. This seems akin to a pattern of governing by secrecy, governing by cover-up, and it seems related to the way the administration has behaved for quite some time.

You can look at Bob Woodward's book for another example of this. This government seems very eager to conduct its affairs in private, and you can't do that if you're going to have a democracy.

Democracy relies on open government. And if we see here a large pattern that undermines what's necessary for the functioning of government -- and that's profoundly unethical -- that's an assault on civic virtue.

PHILLIPS: How do you break that cycle?

COHEN: One way you break that cycle is not to re-elect the people that conducted themselves in that way. That's what democracy -- democracy is supposed to do.

PHILLIPS: How do you know, though, who you shouldn't re-elect when there are so many secrets? And you sort of wonder, could this create a domino effect? Now that this is out and it's open and we are starting to ask these questions and look at ethics and standards on a deeper level, you sort of wonder, OK, what could be next? Who could be next?

COHEN: A fair question, and that's why openness in government, openness in democratic government is so important. How can you vote wisely as a citizen if you don't know what is going on?

And that's why the tendency for the last six years to conduct so many governmental affairs in secret to try to suppress criticism, to avoid open government, that's why that's so dangerous for a democracy. You can't vote on the facts if you don't know what your representatives are doing. PHILLIPS: What do you think from an ethical standpoint about Mark Foley coming forward, or his lawyers saying, look, he's gay, he was molested by a clergyman, he's got a problem with alcohol, he's got emotional issues, he's checking into rehab? Was that the way to do it, or should Mark Foley have come clean a long time ago about issues that he's dealing with, wrestling with, these demons, deep in his soul?

COHEN: I'd like to dispatch the gay claim right away. This isn't about gay or straight. It's not about anyone's sexual orientation.

It's about an older person abusing his relationship with a younger person. It's about someone who is in authority over a kind of quasi-employee, abusing that relationship. Gay or straight doesn't really come into it.

And in a way, from the perspective of the pages, Representative Foley's motives, what psychologically led him to do what he did, is beside the point. It's his actual behavior that we're concerned with.

PHILLIPS: So Randy, why do you think his lawyer came out and said he's gay? You bring up an interesting point, because in no way do we ever want to say because you're gay you molest little boys. I mean, let's separate those immediately. And never, ever did we want to make the connection in any way. But why would the lawyer out him?

COHEN: I think there's a kind of desperation and a kind of scurrying around, and there's a willingness to throw dust up in the air and hope it obscures the lens of scrutiny on this. He was drunk, he was gay, he was molested by a priest, he was very confused, he didn't get enough sleep. It's the lawyer's job, I suppose, to try to defend the client. But these were some very dubious assertions.

PHILLIPS: Interesting. So, do you think he not necessarily said the right thing?

COHEN: Oh, we'll see. We'll see. I don't know how best to defend him legally.

PHILLIPS: All right. Randy Cohen, let's -- we're told any minute now Dennis Hastert should step up to that microphone. Will you stay with us? Will you listen? And we'll talk afterwards?

COHEN: You know, I can't. I have to go somewhere else.

PHILLIPS: You've got to go? Randy, this is one of the biggest stories right now.

COHEN: I'm sorry. I know. Well, I'm sick about it.

PHILLIPS: Well, I tell you what, we'll talk again.

COHEN: I'd like that.

PHILLIPS: I appreciate your insight, OK? COHEN: Thank you very much.

PHILLIPS: All right.

COHEN: He's got to be ethical.

PHILLIPS: That's right, he's got to be committed to what he's going to do.

LEMON: By the way, I read him every Sunday in the "New York Times Magazine", very good, interesting stuff that he has.

We want to bring in Dana Bash, because we're waiting again to hear what House Speaker Denny Hastert has to say. We're hearing word that it could possibly happen shortly here, Dana.

But talk to me about this investigation, former FBI director Louis Freeh expects to head it up and that's what the House Speaker is expected to announce, at least one of the things here.

DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is a fast-moving story and an ever-changing story. I was just told by a Republican leadership aide that, in fact, the speaker might not make that announcement yet. It is something that he's considering, but he might not make that announcement yet. And we'll really harry what he has to say on that, but he is going to make the case that he does want to be -- to look into the page program, he does want to think about some reforms for the page program and how they are dealt with in and around the Capitol.

But the big, sort of, reason for this press conference, for making a big announcement and for calling the press for this live news conference is to make it clear that he's not going anywhere, that he's not going to resign, as some conservatives have even called for him to do, and he really does, in terms, of the political evolution of this story, wants to change the subject, essentially, away from what we have all been talking about for the past 24 hours now, which is that apparently, according to a leadership -- Republican aide, that left the Hill, that resigned yesterday, he informed the speaker's office about Mark Foley's inappropriate conduct long before the speaker's office had admitted previously.

And that's something that the speaker's office, the speaker's chief of staff flatly denies. Nevertheless, it has been the storyline, if you will, for the past 24 hours. So now what you're seeing is the speaker trying to reclaim it and to make the case that he does take responsibility. That is something, Don, that even some very close to him think that he has not necessarily articulated well enough up to this point.

He has said it several times, but not in a way that really has eased some of those who are very, very anxious, one month before election day, who are out there getting pounded, bombarded, with questions from reporters and, more importantly, from the voters, saying that they don't understand, not only, you know, how this could happen in terms of Mark Foley, but how the Republican leadership could have not known about this, or perhaps did know, did have an inkling about his conduct and not been more aggressive to stop it.

LEMON: And we got the two-minute mark, two-minute warning about ten minutes ago, and you know in politics two minutes is not necessarily two minutes.

BASH: It's like football.

LEMON: Yes. But, you know what, we're just getting some information from the speaker's office. And he is responding to the Ethics Committee, I'm going to read it right from his office, the information came across.

Denny Hastert responding, said the committee should be commended for moving promptly with an investigation, Dana. He says, I have directed my longtime council Randy Evans (ph) of McKinna, Long, and Alders (ph) to cooperate with the committee, in getting to the bottom of this.

And he goes on to say the committee is moving forward to get the control of this situation and finances to provide all of us some peace of mind.

So he's responding to this fairly promptly. Not coming out as promptly as we thought he could be. He is responding to this, and he also mentions, again, his long time council Randy Evans of McKinna, Long, and Evans in this statement here.

BASH: Yes. That's right, and as you said, it's not a surprise that he's coming out now.

LEMON: Dana, here he's...

BASH: Let's listen.

LEMON: He's coming out right now, Dana, let's listen.

REP. DENNIS HASTERT (D-IL), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: Well, thank you very much, for everybody showing up today...

I'm sorry -- you know, when you talk about the page issue and what's happened in the Congress, I'm deeply sorry that this has happened.

And the bottom line is that we're taking responsibility, because ultimately, as someone has said in Washington before: The buck stops here.

For something like this to occur, our system obviously isn't designed for the electronic age of Instant Messages.

When the Congress found out about the explicit messages, Republicans dealt with it immediately and the culprit was gone. We are now trying to correct the problem.

We've asked the Ethics Committee to look into this matter and we asked for criminal investigations to be opened by the Justice Department, the FBI and the State of Florida.

We have a toll-free number where people can confidently call. And we've reached out to experts around the country to put a system in place to make sure this never happens again.

The tip number is 1-866-384-0481.

We will do everything possible to make the program safe for the kids while they're in our care in Washington, D.C.

And we will make sure that we can be a resource for their parents once they return home.

We're looking for a person of high caliber to advise us on the page program. I reached out to the Democrat leader and shared with her some of the ideas and we hope to resolve this soon.

Final point: Our children need to be protected. And we're going to do everything we can to protect them.

I'll take some questions.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

HASTERT: On that point, I only know what I've seen in the press and what I've heard. There's no ultimate, real source of information, but that's what I've read. And that's what I've heard in the press.

And so the fact is: We've turned this whole thing over to the FBI for us to try to find out what happened.

And that's what we want to do. And any member of Congress that is involved in this, or any staffer, needs to comply. And the results will be there.

QUESTION: Mr. Speaker, will you set the record straight on a couple of things?

Tell us once again, if you will, when you learned that there was more than a minor problem (OFF-MIKE) something that had a predatory feel to it (OFF-MIKE)?

HASTERT: I, first of all, learned of this last Friday, when we were about to leave Congress for the break, to go out and campaign. And that's the first time that I heard of the explicit language.

When it happened, Republicans acted. And the guy's gone. But the fact is that I don't know who knew what, when. We know that there are reports of people that knew it and, kind of, fed it out or leaked it to the press.

That's why we've asked for an investigation.

So let me just say -- that's why we've asked for an investigation: to find who that is. If it's members of my staff that didn't do the job, we will act appropriately. If it's somebody else's staff, they ought to act appropriately as well.

QUESTION: Nobody's admitted it to you?

No one in your own staff has acknowledged knowing the seriousness of the problem, one, two or three years ago and, certainly, no one told you about it?

HASTERT: No.

QUESTION: And, if they didn't, were they derelict?

HASTERT: I didn't hear the rest of your question.

QUESTION: Were they derelict, Mr. Speaker, if they didn't let you know what was going on?

HASTERT: Well, my staff has been -- if somebody didn't let us know, then there's a problem. And I think the investigation will find that out.

QUESTION: How were the e-mails characterized? How were they characterized? Were they just "overly friendly"? Not only as the speaker, but as a former teacher, did that not ring any alarms to you...

HASTERT: We were advised -- our office and then the clerk's office and to the chairman of the page board that there was a Katrina message, period. We knew of no other e-mails -- we -- in that system. And there were no other e-mails other than that one that I know of. And we didn't even have the e-mail because the parents didn't want to give the e-mail out. They said, "Stop it."

The guy that I asked to do that job a long time ago was John Shimkus. John Shimkus is an Army ranger. He's a tough guys. He goes right to the point when there's a problem.

He confronted the member. And the member said that he would stop doing that; asked if there was any other messages. He said no. And he said, "Don't do it again." You know, that's what we did. The parents were happy.

Could we have done it better? Could the Page Board have handled it better? In retrospect, probably, yes. But at that time, what we knew and what we acted upon was what we had.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

HASTERT: You know, it's interesting: Kirk Fordham also said just about three or four days ago that he worked for this guy for 10 years and he never did anything wrong. So there's a little bit of difference in the testimony or what he said.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

HASTERT: I'm going to run, and presumably win, in this election. And when we do, I expect to run for leader -- for speaker. And, you know, I think everybody else will too. But our members ultimately make that decision.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

HASTERT: Well, ultimately, any time that a person has to, as a leader, be on the hot seat and he is a detriment to the party, you know, there ought to be a change. I became speaker in a situation like that.

I don't think that's the case. I said I haven't done anything wrong, obviously. And we need to come back.

What we need to do is start talking about the issues. We have a great economy. It's because of Republican tax cuts and Republican handling of the economy, of holding the line on spending.

We have addressed the war on terror. We've done that continually over the last five years, and today we have a pretty safe America.

And, you know, a lot of people wanted us to address the issue about the border, and we did exactly that. And, you know, last Friday, we culminated in appropriations that did fix the border.

So, you know, we have a good story to tell.

Our friends on the other side of the aisle really don't have a story to tell. And maybe they're resolving to another way to -- to -- another political tactic.

Thank you very much.

LEMON: And, of course, we're listening to House Speaker Dennis Hastert. This is what he said. He said the buck stops here. So he's obviously taking responsibility for the scandal.

But here's what's interesting, he said that he is not only the ethics investigation, but he also announced that the Justice Department will investigate this, the FBI will investigate this, and also the state of Florida will investigate this.

So, this has really, really long tentacles. And who knows what's to come after this? But again, he did take responsibility saying, you know, any member of the House who may do something like this should be held responsible and also saying that he became House speaker because of someone who was involved in a situation, not the same sort of situation.

PHILLIPS: Sure, but talking about the Tom DeLay scandal. Dana Bash, she's been listening to this as well. A couple things, Dana, that stood out.

First of all, he said he's going to run for speaker. He's not resigning. He says he hasn't done anything wrong, so I guess all this talk about whether he's going to keep his job or not, he sure as heck isn't giving up.

BASH: That's right. And as we've been reporting, we've been talking about it for several hours now that the speaker does not want to give up, and really made that clear in a way that was unambiguous, standing in front of cameras saying people might want him to resign and step down, but that's not going to happen.

What was noteworthy and interesting, there were a few things, but I think the most important thing to bring out is the idea that he talked about in his opening statement, that he does want to have a review of the page program.

But he did say that he's looking into what candidates could be -- could lead that up, could head that up. We are told from a House Republican leadership aide that, in fact, the speaker called the Democratic leader, Nancy Pelosi and said that he thought Louie Freeh (ph), the former FBI director who we've been talking about this afternoon would be a good candidate.

According to this Republican aide, Nancy Pelosi rejected that idea, and that is why you didn't hear the speaker actually make that announcement. That, we are told, is -- we were talking about a big announcement. That was the big announcement that they wanted to make, but they decide not to go with it, according to the Republicans, because Nancy Pelosi objected. I should make it clear that we have not confirmed that with Nancy Pelosi's office. We're waiting to hear back from her to see if she agrees with those chain of events. But we didn't hear him announce Louie Freeh (ph), we didn't even hear him utter those words. But we do know from a Republican leadership aide that Louie Freeh (ph) is somebody he wants to tap to review the page program and the page security system.

LEMON: And Dana, you were listening as well as we were. Of course, the big question, who knew what and when, that's what we've been asking. He is, of course, sticking by his statement, sticking by his guns on this one, that he found out about this on Friday, even though other people have come out and said that they knew months, even years ago, they brought it to his attention. He's saying he only knew about it on Friday.

BASH: And you know, it was hard to hear the questions, and for this, there's so many details that are important. It was hard to hear exactly what he was asked about his recollection of the chain of events.

But, certainly, he did make clear that he didn't find out about it anything until Friday. He talked about a Katrina e-mail. Unclear exactly what he was trying to say there. Assume that -- we assume that he's talking about an e-mail. The e-mail that sort of first surfaced. It was an e-mail from a former page, who was from Louisiana, who had been corresponding with Mark Foley and one of the things that Mark Foley was asking about is how this page was doing in the wake of Katrina.

The end of that correspondence, Mark Foley asked the former page for a picture. And that set up alarm bells with the page and that was eventually brought to the attention of the leadership. So that is what he was talking about there. But in terms of the big picture, what did he know, when did he know it. He also -- again, it was hard to hear the questions -- but seemed to stick by his guns and say that the allegations that are being made by a Republican aide, Kirk Fordham, that his office knew more than two years ago about Mark Foley's inappropriate conduct simply isn't true.

So, again, he's continuing to deny that claim by the Republican aide that made it, really dropped a bomb as he was leaving after he resigned yesterday.

PHILLIPS: Well, Dana, it still brings up an interesting point. He is acknowledging, you know, through this Katrina message that he was talking about, because we were trying to figure out what that was as well, and that makes sense, what you just said. But that just goes to show that there was something that happened.

There was -- it was brought to light a year ago, possibly more. So, the -- I guess it's confusing. If indeed there was a concern or something came up through this Katrina message, why is Hastert still saying that they really didn't know there was a problem until Friday? I mean, people did know. That's obvious.

BASH: You know, this goes back to the original point, the original question that we were all asking, starting on Friday. And that is -- you know, how could you not know about it? And just to sort of be clear, what did happen at the end of 2005 is they found out about this one e-mail exchange, that the Republicans term ask overly friendly, asking the former page for a picture. And that is why the Republicans, two Republicans, went to confront Mark Foley.

Now that in and of itself raised questions and anger among Democrats, even some Republicans saying, wait a minute, that's not an investigation. That's not the way to handle this, but they considered it case closed. What the speaker and other Republican leaders are saying is that they knew nothing about the instant messages that were much more sexually explicit. That all came out on Friday.

So that is what the speaker was trying to say. It is very confusing. And it's also, you know, in some cases, it's splitting hairs and that is why this is a very difficult thing for them to communicate, and it's also why in many cases, the speaker, the speaker's office, other Republican leaders, have been giving conflicting and oftentimes contradicting statements about what they knew and when they knew it and that's causing some of the political problem here for them.

PHILLIPS: Dana Bash, thanks so much.

LEMON: And you're right, he said he gave the information to at least John Shimkus found out about it and he said, quote, "he talked to him and he said, don't do it again. So, apparently something happened there, which, you know, Katrina had to be about a year ago. So we'll see.

All right, the Foley fall-out, on the campaign trail, the scandal hits home for members of Congress, all across the contri. That story straight ahead in the newsroom.

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