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Nancy Grace
Update in Trenton Duckett Case; Anniversary for Crimestoppers
Aired October 06, 2006 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, exclusive documents and photos in a parent`s worst nightmare, a 2-year-old boy tucked into his crib, mom in the next room with a video, then she says the window screen slashed, the baby gone. Almost immediately, police name her the prime suspect. Tonight, police release a new timeline of events before and after 2-year-old Trenton Duckett goes missing.
Also tonight, exclusive never-before-seen documents, photos and new details in the Trenton investigation.
And tonight, Crime Stoppers turns 30.
But first, to Florida and the search by air, the search by water for 2-year-old Trenton Duckett.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: What is Trenton wearing, honey?
MELINDA DUCKETT, TRENTON`S MOTHER: I don`t know. He was ready for bed. I know he friggin` did it!
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Why aren`t you telling us and giving us a clear picture where you were before your son was kidnapped?
MELINDA DUCKETT: Because I`m not going to put those kind of details out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My granddaughter just killed herself.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSH DUCKETT, TRENTON`S FATHER: I just want my son back. I mean, that`s my goal. He`s my pride and joy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We still want the picture of Trenton in the news. And it`s very important we keep his picture out there. We`ve got to know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight. Tonight, breaking developments out of Florida as we continue the search for 2-year-old Trenton Duckett. Straight out to Court TV`s Jean Casarez joining us in Bartow (ph). Jean, what`s the latest?
JEAN CASAREZ, COURT TV: Nancy, authorities are saying they believe they have found a credit card purchase of Melinda Duckett on Saturday, the weekend that he disappeared, at 5:25 in the evening. They believe that she got some gas.
But where she got some gas is an area that they never dreamed that she would be that afternoon. It is the south side of the county. They say it`s extremely rural, with only bushes and foliage and hardly any civilization whatsoever. And Nancy, couple that with the fact that the cell phone records don`t find any record of activity at all from late Saturday afternoon through evening, and either her phone was turned off or she would have been in a rural area just like the south side of the county.
GRACE: Let`s take a look at that map. Jean, you`re telling me that police are just now finding out about a credit card receipt? There you see...
CASAREZ: That`s right, because they didn`t know about the credit card. They went to the postal authority and they found this credit card receipt that came from a credit card they believe could have been brand- new.
GRACE: So why would the Postal Service have that -- and everyone, you`re seeing what Jean -- if you could put is the map back up? You`re seeing what Jean`s talking about, gas station down at the bottom of the map. This is an entirely new area. Police have been looking north of this area for Melissa -- Melinda Duckett and Trenton Duckett`s possible whereabouts that day. Now we learn they were in a completely different area of the county. It`s a pretty wide swathe of mileage, Jean.
CASAREZ: Well, it is. And they say that she filled her gas tank up with gas. And Nancy, the way they located this credit card receipt -- and remember, the purchase is just coming in right now, a purchase that she made weeks ago -- is because the postal authority alerted them to it. So obviously, there`s a direct line between her mail, anything that`s being received right now and investigators.
GRACE: Joining us tonight, Mike Brooks, former D.C. police and also with the FBI. Mike, how can it be that we`re just getting a credit card receipt now, a credit card receipt that shows her filling up the tank just after she leaves her grandparents` house on Saturday? We believe that to be between 4:00 and 4:30 in the afternoon. This receipt is around 5:25, 5:30. And not a word was heard from her until the very next day. Why is this receipt now just showing up?
MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, SERVED ON FBI TERRORISM TASK FORCE: Well, they probably got -- went a head and got a subpoena for the postal inspectors, and anything that the postal inspectors had, they would go ahead and forward it to Leesburg police, Florida Department of Law Enforcement and the FBI, who are still working full-time on the case.
But then, you know, there`s no pings on her cell phone. That`s 15 miles south of her grandparents` house, Nancy. And then if you go back up to her grandparents` house, the Ocala forest, where she said she went that day, is another 20 to 25 miles northeast of there. So talking to the police today, myself, they said that that area down where the gas station was is also an area that they searched a pond earlier this week. And that`s an area that some woman, after she heard about the receipt, had gone -- went ahead and contacted the police and said, Well, you know, I think I saw a silver Mitsubishi, because she has a Mitsubishi herself. And it`s an area, Nancy, where cars pull off and people get out and go fishing. So they got the divers from Lake County sheriff`s office down there to go ahead and check this canal, check this area out. And they found absolutely nothing.
GRACE: Back to Jean Casarez, Court TV news correspondent, who`s been on the case from the beginning. Jean, tell me about the new search.
CASAREZ: Well, the new search is in this area in the southern portion of the county. They`re searching a creek and they`re searching other areas. And they believe that this could have something to it because of the fact she was last seen there be Saturday afternoon, and she didn`t want to talk about Saturday. Investigators are saying that as she would give some interviews, every time Saturday would be mentioned, she would literally walk out of the interview, that she would not want to talk about it at all.
GRACE: Now, Jean, when did we learn about her walking out of the interview whenever Saturday`s whereabouts were mentioned?
CASAREZ: Well, police confirmed it this afternoon, but it first came up out of the NBC affiliate in Orlando. They were talking about voice stress tests that she was doing and that she wouldn`t complete them, and the results that were found were to be that she was deceptive of those. Police have confirmed that. But also, they have now said that she just would walk out of the interview if she didn`t want to complete it. But that is her right.
GRACE: Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute! What did you say about deceptive?
CASAREZ: The stress test, voice stress test results, according to the NBC affiliate in Orlando, the results were deception on the part of Melinda Duckett. Josh Duckett also took the test and he passed.
GRACE: To Mike Brooks, former cop and former fed -- deceptive on a voice stress? Now, remember, a voice stress test is not a polygraph test. What is a voice stress test? Explain that to us. And also what does it mean when you get the result deceptive?
BROOKS: Well, Nancy, I`m not crazy about a voice stress analysis myself. I think a polygraph is a better method, a better investigative tool. But what they do, they ask you certain questions and they record it, and then they go back and they analyze the stress on your voice. And they also look at your body language and everything else while they`re asking you these questions. I don`t think it`s as reliable. But some people like them. Some departments use them still. And if you have a good operator, it`s just like a polygraph, Nancy.
GRACE: You really think that? You really think if you`ve got a good operator, a voice stress test is just like a polygraph?
BROOKS: No, I`m just saying, it`s -- just like a polygraph, a voice stress analysis is OK as long as you have a decent operator conducting the analysis.
GRACE: Well, Mike Brooks, you can say that about anything.
BROOKS: True. But don`t get me wrong. I don`t like the voice stress analysis. I`d rather have a polygraph and...
GRACE: OK. Wa-wa-wa-wa-wa-wa-wa! In a perfect world, I`d rather her tell us where Trenton is.
BROOKS: Absolutely.
GRACE: As an alternative, I`d rather her take a polygraph.
BROOKS: Sure.
GRACE: We don`t have that. So do you rely on the voice stress test or not?
BROOKS: In this particular case, that`s all we`ve got to go on, Nancy, so they`re going to have to go ahead and rely on that. If law enforcement people who gave it to her think it`s reliable, and that`s what they use in that part of the -- of the -- of the state, then that`s what they`re going to have to go with. That`s all -- that`s the best they`ve got to go with.
GRACE: Let me go back to Jean Casarez. Jean, you`re telling me that the mom, Melinda Duckett, before she committed suicide, took a voice stress test, agreed to that, and she failed it.
CASAREZ: Well, according to sources, the results were that she was -- she was deceiving authorities. That`s the word that`s used, deceiving authorities. And that stress test was taken shortly after Trenton went missing.
GRACE: OK. Let`s unchain the lawyers. Joining us from the Texas jurisdiction, Courtney Anderson, from the Miami jurisdiction, Lida Rodriguez-Taseff. You know, I`m all for polygraphs. I`m like Mike Brooks, depending on if you`ve got a reliable person running the polygraph. To you, Courtney Anderson. Polygraphs are not admissible in court unless they are stipulated -- agreed to -- up front before the poly is taken. What do you make of the voice stress test?
COURTNEY ANDERSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, exactly what you were discussing. I mean, if it`s all that you have from an investigative perspective, then you go with it. I mean, we all want law enforcement to get out there and solve crimes. We all are taxpayers, and that`s what we empower them to do and trust them to do if something happens to us or a loved one.
GRACE: And to you, Lida. Voice stress test?
LIDA RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you know what? They`re not terribly reliable in court. But the bottom line is, if they`re using it, as they were in this case, to determine where Trenton was, then they would feel that they were doing the right thing.
And in fact, the follow-up of what the investigation turned up is that the affiliate is reporting now that she refused to take a polygraph test when asked, after she had failed the voice stress test. And if that`s the case, it`s her right at that point to refuse to take a polygraph.
GRACE: Well, of course it`s her right. It`s her right. But Caryn Stark, psychotherapist, her baby is missing. The whole world is turning everything upside down. We`re looking under tree stumps down in Leesburg, Florida, to find the baby. And she walks out on a polygraph? Explain.
CARYN STARK, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, that means that she clearly was deceptive, Nancy. I would say that -- we couldn`t call her guilty, but that`s very unusual behavior. You would think that someone who was innocent would want to do everything they could to prove that they were innocent. So it`s not a good sign that she walked out.
GRACE: Not a good sign. To Penny Douglas Furr, custody law expert, who has meticulously reviewed all the custody documents -- you know, Penny, in our practice very often, you can find somebody who`s lying about a collateral issue, like, I smoked pot and don`t want anybody to know, or I have a DUI and I don`t want to talk about that. And so they are deceptive on the polygraph but not the main issue. But in this case, with the child missing, I find that difficult to accept.
PENNY DOUGLAS FURR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, her attorney could have sat down with police and told the questions that she would answer and held those questions, two questions regarding Trenton`s disappearance. She probably most likely would not have had to have answered any questions about whether she`s using any kind of drugs or anything like that.
And I didn`t even need the stress test. When I heard it on the 911 and they asked her what the child was wearing to bed and she kept going and um, and um, and um, and she couldn`t figure it out, that told me more than a stress test. She didn`t expect that question, and she honestly hadn`t put him to bed...
GRACE: Well, Penny...
FURR: ... is what it sounds like to me.
GRACE: ... that`s why you and Lida and Courtney win so many cases. You apply your common sense.
And speaking of that 911 tape, where Melinda Duckett couldn`t recall if her son had on shoes and socks in his crib that night, take a listen to this.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
MELINDA DUCKETT, MISSING BOY`S MOTHER: Hello?
911 OPERATOR: Hi. What is Trenton wearing, honey?
MELINDA DUCKETT: I don`t know. He was ready for bed.
911 OPERATOR: You don`t know what you dressed him in before he went to bed?
MELINDA DUCKETT: He might have had his shoes off and his shirt off -- no shoes. I know who friggin` did it!
911 OPERATOR: No shoes, no shirt. He`s an Asian male.
MELINDA DUCKETT: He`s wearing jean shorts. He`s 2 years old.
911 OPERATOR: He`s wearing jean shorts.
MELINDA DUCKETT: Yes.
911 OPERATOR: And he`s 2 years old. And how long has he been gone?
MELINDA DUCKETT: I don`t know!
911 OPERATOR: You don`t know?
MELINDA DUCKETT: I was watching a movie that was two hours long. I had checked on him before anyone came down to the house.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: 911, do you need police, fire or an ambulance?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is (INAUDIBLE) My granddaughter just killed herself. She was in the closet. She shot herself. My wife and I just came in from -- we went out to lunch and brought her some lunch back. And when I came in, she was in the closet. She shot herself.
911 OPERATOR: And you`re at (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s no need to rush. She`s in the closet. We`re going to leave everything as is, OK?
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Tonight, we have gotten exclusive documents. We have now uncovered a fourth suicide note that was written earlier. As you know, in this suicide, Melinda Duckett left behind a suicide note to the public, a suicide note to her grandparents, a suicide note to her parents, $900 cash, which she unusually left to her grandparents and not her son, if she believed him to still be alive.
We`ve now uncovered an older suicide note, which we`ll show you in just a moment. But let`s go out -- oh, here we go. Thanks, Rosie. "There`s nothing against you. I love you very much. I appreciate all you do for me. I apologize for all the confusion and lack of time I had at home with school, work, and life got complicated. Tell Mom and Dad I forgive them and love them. I also love" -- who I believe to be a sister - - "and have missed her so much over the last year."
"Josh, I wish we could have made things work out. I love you so much. I can`t stand to make you miserable any longer. All the times you told me how sick of me you were, I never really paid attention. You promised to always be there for me, but somewhere down the line, I guess you changed your mind. That`s OK, though. You`d be surprised how much pain I can endure before I break. I love you, sweetheart. I apologize for all my mistakes. I love you. Love, Meme."
The reason you`re not hearing about Trenton in this note, this was a suicide note during her pregnancy.
Let`s go out to the lines. Jeri in Indiana. Hi, Jeri.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. Nancy...
GRACE: Yes, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... how true are they that the grandparents saw that child on the Saturday before? And if they didn`t, that gives her a week to have gotten rid that have child.
GRACE: Well, that`s a very good question. I believe that they can corroborate her being at the grandparents` that day, though. And I think that`s a very important question, Mike Brooks, because if you have the timeline off at all, this child could have been done away with long before Saturday. I think Jeri`s got a very good point. But I believe the grandparents are being honest about it.
BROOKS: Yes, I am, too. And talking to law enforcement again today, Nancy, they believe that they were being honest, too, and that Trenton was with her at the grand parents` house. And you know, and also, in that area, they were saying in that area, 15 miles south, where she got gas, an area they were searching in that canal, they said that that is just some unbelievable terrain there, that you can just go right off the road. And he said -- used an example, you could take a glow-in-the-dark garbage bag full of garbage, throw it over one of those little fences right off the highway there, and no one would find it for years unless someone went directly in the path of where that bag is. They said it`s just some unbelievable terrain.
GRACE: And to Mike Brooks -- the map that we`re showing the viewers tonight, this alters the search immensely. Why?
BROOKS: It does. I mean, they had concentrated their search, Nancy, about 20 to 25 miles northeast of the grandparents` house up in Ocala, up in the Ocala National Forest. Now they -- a possible spotting just a little bit by that gas station where she bought, 15 miles south of the grandparents`, and just some extremely rural, rural area. And you know, they`ve been getting some leads in...
GRACE: Right.
BROOKS: They`re still getting leads, but right now, it`s kind of gone cold.
GRACE: Very quickly, now joining us, a very special guest. Trenton`s father is with us tonight, Josh Duckett. Josh, I understand you`ve had some communication in the last hour regarding Trenton?
JOSH DUCKETT: Yes. I`m not sure what it`s about. I was contacted that somebody had heard his name over a police scanner. I`m just waiting to see if it was anything, but to my knowledge, nobody has known anything of any value that`s going on right now.
GRACE: So Trenton`s name came up on a police scanner also this week, a false sighting there in Titusville, Florida. What happened, Josh?
JOSH DUCKETT: To my knowledge, there was a small child that looked almost identical to Trenton, and to my knowledge, his name was Trenton also. And basically, it turned out he was a year older than Trenton.
GRACE: Right. A little boy, also named Trenton, spotted at a Bank of America in Titusville, Florida. Hopes were raised, including Josh`s. Another dead end.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: To "TV Guide" tonight. "TV Guide" has attacked our show for airing the Melinda Duckett interview when she had committed suicide that afternoon. But oh, what a field day you would have, "TV Guide," if we had interviewed Melinda Duckett, caught her in those lies and vagaries, and then not aired the interview, hidden the interview, suppressed the truth. But to you, "TV Guide," on this show, we don`t hide the truth.
And unlike you, "TV Guide," Trenton Duckett is not just a story to us. Trenton Duckett is a little boy that we want to help bring home alive. The ink you wasted could have been used to publicize the 800 number to find this boy! And tonight out to "TV Guide", you jeered me, but I cheer you because finally, you spent some ink on the Trenton Duckett story and the search for Trenton Duckett and you actually put the 1-800 number up.
Rosie, let`s do the same. Thank you to "TV Guide." The reward now up to $12,000. And here is the tip line, 1-800-423-TIPS.
Let`s go out to the lines. Judy in New Mexico. What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. When they found all the stuff in the trashcan, did they find little Trenton`s clothes?
GRACE: You know, interesting point. Jean Casarez, the mom threw away -- there`s some exclusive video that our producer, Steph, went down and got. That is the dumpster. And what`s so interesting about the location, Judy, it is very, very close, I`d say within 50 feet of Melinda Duckett`s apartment. We also did a drive, the same drove -- the same drive that she took to her apartment that day while, we believe, contemplating Trenton`s whereabouts.
Out to Jean Casarez. Jean, I understand that baby food, baby photos, sonogram, toys, toy box all thrown away. What about anything else?
CASAREZ: No, I think Judy`s got a great point because clothes were not found in that dumpster. And you can say that if the boy is still alive and she gave it to someone, well, maybe she would throw away the food and the toy box and the toys because other toys can be found for him, but he`s got to have his clothes, and there were no clothes in that dumpster.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the drive from Melinda`s apartment to her grandparents` place. It`s about a 30-minute drive. And you have to just kind of wonder what she thought about on her last drive as she drove towards her grandparents` place, where she ultimately ended her life.
And you have to wonder why she chose her grandparents` place, why she wouldn`t do it somewhere where -- more private. It`s almost like she wanted to make a statement. She wanted to be found, or she felt safe there.
But as you do this drive, as I`ve done a couple of times, Nancy, since I`ve been down here, on the way to the grandparents` place, you just have to wonder what Melinda Duckett thought about. Did she think about her son? Did she think about her life?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: First of all, Steph, you can explain to me why you ran a red light right from front of me.
Right now to Josh Duckett, Trenton`s father. When you see that ride, that path that your ex drove en route to her suicide -- I had no idea that she had written a suicide note back in 2004 saying basically the same thing that she said this time.
JOSH DUCKETT: Yes. I mean, she had written that note back in 2004 while she was pregnant with Trenton, basically kind of the same situation. She was still playing games. And she basically pushed everybody away and kind of became basically by herself and just kind of carried on from there, I mean, and we tried to tell everybody and it just -- nobody would listen.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
J. DUCKETT: It hurts a lot, because I don`t know where my son`s at. I think that`s the worst part of what happened (INAUDIBLE) I am 100 percent confident that somebody`s out there, that they know something. They`re just not coming forward with the information that we need.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, we learned that Trenton`s grandparents actually tried to write Jeb Bush, the governor, over and over and over, begging for help. I`m writing as a concerned grandparent of Trenton Duckett, at that time just 15 months old, ongoing custody battle, issues of safety, for many months. She tries to explain to the governor the danger this boy is in, the mom self-mutilating, making threats on the boy, attacked Trenton by the neck, forcing the dad out of the car, leaving him stranded.
We have, I believe, four letters to the governor. They were sent on to DFCS, Department of Family and Children`s Services. They weren`t ignored; they were sent to the correct authority.
Now, out to Josh Duckett, Trenton`s father, Josh, when I learn that your mom kept reaching out to everybody, calling DFCS, calling the governor, writing the governor, why wouldn`t anyone listen? And now the baby`s gone.
J. DUCKETT: We`re not sure why nobody listened. I mean, they told us that they were going to assign a special force to investigate it and check it out. And we never heard from anybody. They gave us a name of a lady that they were going to put us in contact with, and she never contacted us. And my mom tried to e-mail her, and we got basically no response through DFCS at all.
I mean, they basically, in all the documents, I mean, they`re all there. And yet DFCS says still, in regards to the recordings of the six and a half hours of recordings, they say that they don`t know where those are, but yet in the paperwork, they`re referenced in the paperwork.
GRACE: Out to Penny Douglass Furr, custody law expert, Penny, you have carefully reviewed all of the documents and, in fact, you have advised me the guardian ad litem, the guardian for this boy appointed by the court, he`s on neither side, neither the mom nor the dad, said the boy was in danger with the mom.
FURR: Yes, and said that the child should be with the father`s mother. And there was also a report from a social worker who said that...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, hold on, Penny. What is that? Ellie, what is that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That is a picture from, we believe, one of Melinda Duckett`s friends MySpace pages.
GRACE: Is that Melinda Duckett holding an AK-47?
BROOKS: It`s an AR-15, yes.
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa, who jumped in? Mike Brooks, is that you?
BROOKS: I was just saying, it`s an AR-15. But, you know, it looks like something you see, you know, from a Rambo movie, not something you see from a mother of a 2-year-old.
GRACE: It looks like an AK-47 to me. What`s an AR-15?
BROOKS: It`s a civilian version of the military M-16, Nancy.
GRACE: OK. Let`s hold that just a moment.
Josh, what is your ex doing with a military assault rifle?
J. DUCKETT: I have no idea. I mean, it come as a shock to me. I mean, whenever I was dating her and was with her, she wasn`t into guns at all. She never went shooting; she never wanted to go hunting or anything. And then we separate, and all of a sudden now she`s got assault rifles and everything else. I mean, she`s all about guns from what I`ve understood.
GRACE: And having photos taken of herself with her gun.
To Caryn Stark, Caryn, this young lady thought and wrote a lot about death, guns, suicide, self-mutilation. Where is that coming from?
STARK: That`s coming from somebody who truly is depressed and unhappy with life, Nancy. When somebody keeps threatening...
GRACE: Well, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Half of Manhattan is depressed, Caryn.
STARK: Not like this.
GRACE: But we`re not with an assault weapon depressed.
STARK: Well, but not -- she`s an extreme case, Nancy. When somebody keeps threatening to kill themselves, when they`re so upset, when they`re cutting themselves in that much pain, that`s somebody who you have to take seriously and you believe is in trouble. There was no doubt that she kept crying out for help and that she was going to kill herself, if you look at all the signs along the way.
GRACE: There you see Melinda Duckett with, what is it, Mike Brooks?
BROOKS: From where I can see, it looks like an AR-15, which is a semiautomatic civilian version of the military M-16.
GRACE: What would you do with that?
BROOKS: Well, some people go hunting with it, Nancy, and some people do a lot of target shooting with it.
GRACE: Hunting for what?
BROOKS: You can hunt small game with that. It`s a .223 caliber. But it`s not something that you just keep around your house.
GRACE: You would hunt small game with an assault weapon?
BROOKS: Well, some people say it`s a rifle. An assault weapon, yes, you could call it that, too. But some people do hunt with the AR-15.
GRACE: Let`s go out to the lawyers, Lida Rodriguez-Taseff and Courtney Anderson.
Ladies, how do you explain Melinda Duckett with an assault weapon, Courtney?
ANDERSON: Well, I can`t explain it.
GRACE: I bet you`d hate if one of your clients popped up with one of these during a trial.
ANDERSON: Yes, I mean, this is not a good thing to put on the Internet, not a good idea to take the picture. And then, to the public, don`t put these pictures on the Internet, MySpace or anywhere else.
But the really sad thing is listening to this, and it`s tragedy upon tragedy. Here`s the grandmother trying, here`s the father trying, here`s the court system an ad litem, the social workers. And it`s not that no one acted. But the question is: Did we not do enough? Did the system break down? You know, what can we do?
Because irrespective of whether Melinda is the person who is responsible for Trenton disappearing, she`s not the only mother who`s been through this type of depression, who`s had these types of situations in court. And we have to stand up -- I agree with you -- and say, for the sake of the innocent children, something has to be done.
GRACE: And to Lida -- hold on, Lida -- if you heard Courtney Anderson so beautifully tap danced, tango out of that, I`m asking about when your client pops up with a picture posing with an AK-47. And somehow she got on DFCS, with which I agree, Courtney, totally. But what do you do when your client jumps up in the middle of a trial with a photo like that? What do you do with an assault weapon?
RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Well, I think this is very hard for lawyers. And if the lawyers knew, really, God help them, because the bottom line is, this indicates that, first of all, somebody wasn`t doing their job. And the person that wasn`t doing their job was the Department of Children and Families.
They`ve been going through tremendous upheaval in Florida for years. And the fact that the grandparents were writing to the governor, and the governor, who is in charge of the Department of Children and Families, did nothing just shows you that there is a really, really big mess in Florida. And it has nothing to do with a woman simply holding an assault rifle. It has to do with the fact that nobody knew.
GRACE: Well, I think it`s got a lot to do with no one listening to Josh Duckett, as he called over and over to Department of Family and Children`s Services.
RODRIGUEZ-TASEFF: Yes.
GRACE: The grandmother writing the governor, for Pete`s sake. And very quickly, back to Penny Douglass Furr, what did the court-appointed guardian ad litem say?
FURR: That the child should be with the mother of the father, the grandmother. And, Nancy, as far as Family and Children`s Services, I also wanted to say, when the judge did give the child to the mother, the investigator from the Department of Family and Children`s Services expressed concern for the child`s safety, when the judge decided to do that.
But many months before this, apparently, Melinda got very upset with her mother-in-law for bathing the child. She grabbed her mother-in-law. She bit her until she bled. The police came. Now, in this police report, Melinda Duckett says to the police -- she says, "I was adopted. I don`t understand." She said, "These people have been nice to me. I have thoughts that I do not understand and that I cannot control."
And she also said that she didn`t understand why she did this. She admitted the biting, and a police officer apparently asked her why she had so many scars. And she told him they were self-inflicted.
GRACE: And they still sent the boy home with her after she attacked the mom and bit her?
FURR: Exactly. Yes, exactly.
GRACE: OK. Let`s go to the lines. Antoinette in Florida, hi, Antoinette.
CALLER: Hi, Nancy. We love your show, and we love what you`re doing and what you stand for. And we`re behind you 100 percent.
GRACE: Thank you.
CALLER: My question is -- and I`ll make it brief -- is that it`s been over a month, and never once have we seen a photo of Melinda`s parents or any photos, anything about her parents, in other words, the maternal grandparents. I mean, are they in hiding? I mean, I don`t understand the story.
GRACE: You know, Antoinette? I don`t either. But having lived through a tragedy myself, sometimes it`s hard to figure out why family members dealing with, in this case, a suicide act the way they do. I don`t understand that.
Josh, where have they been? Are they helping in the search?
J. DUCKETT: I`m not sure actually what they`re doing. I know they`ve never met Trenton, and they`ve actually never met me. So, I mean, I haven`t -- in the years that I was with Melinda, I had never really seen them directly involved with her...
GRACE: Right.
J. DUCKETT: ... in the years. So, I mean, as far as I know, they`re up in New York. I`m not sure exactly what they`re doing. I`ve tried to reach out to her side of the family and get them to join forces with us and all work together, because we`re supposed to be working for the same cause, but I`ve gotten no response from any of her family at all or any of her friends.
GRACE: Very quickly to Jean Casarez. Jean, I understand that divers were in the water four to five hours yesterday in that canal. Nothing, right?
CASAREZ: That`s right. And that is in the southern end of the county, a brand new area to begin searching.
(NEWSBREAK)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: February 1996. A Dutch tourist is shot and killed in Miami. A day later, three suspects are arrested after the Crimestoppers` affiliate here gets a tip.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Over 525,000 cases have been solved worldwide. There have been over 100,000 arrests of criminals.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Crimestoppers is 30 years old. To investigative reporter Diane Dimond, tell me about the Crimestoppers` 30-year birthday?
DIANE DIMOND, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Oh, it was great, Nancy. I actually went back to Albuquerque, New Mexico. That`s where I`m from, and that`s where it started 30 years ago. It was a great conference.
But you have to remember the first time you ever heard about Crimestoppers. I have never not heard about it. I was a young reporter in Albuquerque when it first started. And since then, it has blossomed thanks to one man, who I think you`re going to talk to in a minute. It was his brainchild to bring the media and law enforcement together to try to solve crimes.
And since that time, Crimestoppers has gone nationwide, but it`s gone worldwide. And at this conference, there were more than 400 people from all over the world there to learn about Crimestoppers.
GRACE: To Greg Macaleese, the founder of Crimestoppers, I want to thank you and Diane for being with us tonight. Greg, could you tell me about Michael Carmen, the victim in the very first Crimestoppers case?
GREG MACALEESE, FOUNDER OF CRIMESTOPPERS: Nancy, Mike was 19 years old. He was a University of New Mexico student. He was planning on getting married. And the night that he was murdered, he had -- he had agreed to work an extra shift at the gas station, which was about three blocks away from his home. And so, on that particular evening, at around midnight, someone drove up to the gas station, robbed him, and then, for no apparent reason, just shot him at point-blank range with a shotgun.
GRACE: How did Crimestoppers solve the case?
MACALEESE: Well, I was one of the detectives investigating it. And I felt as though there were a lot of elements of solvability. The gas station was located on a heavily traveled street. This was a Friday night near midnight, and there were residential areas nearby. And I felt as though somebody had to have seen or heard something.
And yet, after about a month and a half of spinning our wheels, we were no closer to solving the case than before. So I asked the local TV station, KOAT, to film a reenactment of the crime. And they agreed to do it. My idea was that we might have a casual witness to the crime somewhere out in the community, and I was trying to reach out into that viewing audience and pluck one person out.
GRACE: Right. And did it work?
MACALEESE: It sure did. As a matter of fact, we had a call the night of the reenactment from a young fellow. He saw a vehicle coming down the street from the direction of the gas station. Shortly after, he heard a loud sound. And the key was he knew where that vehicle was located. And once we found the vehicle, we were able to apprehend two individuals and subsequently convicted them.
GRACE: Long story short: Crimestoppers has solved thousands of cases ever since.
DIMOND: Oh, more than that. Millions.
GRACE: Millions.
MACALEESE: Yes, it`s now millions. We solve a major case every 14 minutes.
GRACE: And to Mike Brooks, former cop and former fed, why are agencies like Crimestoppers so important to police?
BROOKS: Nancy, it just brings the community, the media, and the law enforcement together, and for one purpose: to solve crimes. And it puts more eyes and ears out there on the street.
And I was very proud to say that my father, Joe Brooks, was one of the founding members of -- they called it Crime Solvers in Washington, D.C., that does a fantastic job there, also. And Greg`s to be commended. This is a program that works, and it continues to work. And he`s to be commended for starting it up out there.
GRACE: Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Last year in `96, we put in jail 350 felons and cleared over 1,100 cases as a result of information to Crimestoppers from our citizens.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Over 525,000 cases have been solved worldwide. There have been over 100,000 arrests of criminals.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: To Diane Dimond, here on Crimestoppers and their 30th anniversary, salute to Crimestoppers, tell me about Greg Macaleese?
DIMOND: You know, I met Greg recently, although I`ve known about him for so long. He`s really a man who has changed the course of the world, Nancy. This is a guy who had a vision. In 1976, nobody did reenactments. But he thought about it. They did one on the local KOAT TV station there, and it worked.
And people have come to him over the years to figure out how to make the program work in their communities: 1.1 million cases cleared; property recovered, $1.5 billion; rewards given out to the public, $73 million. It`s almost like a small country`s operating budget.
GRACE: Greg, I know you`re a modest guy, so let me get off you, Greg Macaleese, founder of Crimestoppers, and tell me, what is the future for Crimestoppers?
MACALEESE: Well, the future`s very exciting, Nancy. And there`s a lot of international growth. As a matter of fact, we had the representatives from the India police department and from Japan at the conference. So you`re going to be adding over a billion people, population-wise, to the Crimestoppers` community. But more than anything else, I think our major focus is starting to shift from street crimes into such things as terrorism.
GRACE: Wow. Greg Macaleese with us, founder of Crimestoppers, along with Diane Dimond. Congratulations, Greg. Thank you.
MACALEESE: Nancy, thanks so much.
GRACE: Yes, sir.
Very quickly to, tonight`s "All-Points Bulletin."
FBI and law enforcement on the lookout for Tarek el-Zoghpy in the murder of 1999 of Farez Nasal Pritchard (ph), Alabama. El-Zoghpy is 39, 6`2", 240 pounds, black hair, brown eyes. If you have info, call the FBI, 251-438-3674.
Local news next for some of you, but we`ll all be right back. And, remember, live coverage of a businessman on trial for four murders, 3:00 to 5:00 Eastern, Court TV.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: What a week in America`s courtrooms. Take a look at the stories and, more important, the people who touched our lives.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: House Representative Mark Foley is out, resigning to enter rehab after alleged explicit e-mails to a young boy serving as a House page. Barry, he was crying when it came time to say "bye-bye" to the page.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, people who have been involved in the page program -- I talked to, for example, to 25-year-old girl who was there in 1999. She said that Mr. Foley was a strong supporter of the page program. Foley told an interesting anecdote about an auction that the pages held.
GRACE: Let me guess: a boy won?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A boy won.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He is a sick, depraved and, unfortunately, at this point, a narcissistic individual.
GRACE: Why is it, Michael Cardoza, the answer for celebrities and politicians is, "I`m sick; I have a mental illness; I was drinking"? Hightails it for rehab, and apparently that appeases people.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why is he allowed to run off to rehab right now?
GRACE: Because he`s a politician?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And, Nancy, authorities are saying they believe they have found a credit card purchase of Melinda Duckett on Saturday, the weekend that he disappeared, at 5:25 in the evening. They believe that she got some gas.
MELINDA DUCKETT, LATE MOTHER OF TRENTON DUCKETT: I don`t know where that came into play, because whenever I go out somewhere, you know, I always have gas.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Picture, if you will, John Karr walking out of a Santa Rosa jail. And we`ve heard him time and time again in those audiotapes very precise saying all kinds of issues about children.
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nobody can prove when and where. Don`t forget the state has a burden of proof. You have to prove when he opened that computer up, logged on, got involved in that kiddie porn and where. What state was he in? If you can`t prove that, you can`t prosecute him in California. That`s what happened.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: Tonight, we remember Army sergeant Leroy Segura, Jr., just 23, Clovis, New Mexico, second tour of duty, the Purple Heart. He built and maintained bridges in Iraq. He loved cross-country running and leaves behind a loving family, including a baby brother. Leroy Segura, Jr., American hero.
Thank you to our guests, but our big thank you, to you tonight, for inviting all of us into your home. A special Friday good night from the New York control room. Barbara from San Diego, there she is. She`s a beauty, Drew. Look at that.
Nancy Grace signing off. See you tomorrow night. Goodbye.
END
