Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Newsroom
Is Victory in Iraq Possible?
Aired October 08, 2006 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: Tonight, we put the question to the best and brightest generals. Is victory in Iraq even possible?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anybody that hindered this in any kind of way, they tried to step in the way of hiding this or covering it up, is going to have to step down, whoever that is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: And the House Ethics Committee wants to know who's lying? One congressional aid steps forward to tell all. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to the NEWSROOM, your connection to the world, the web, and what's happening right now. I'm Carol Lin. You've been busy today, so let's get you plugged in.
First, the headlines. If you think the Foley fallout will die out in the coming week, think again. Mark Foley's one-time chief of staff is expected to testify under oath before the House Ethics Committee. Kirk Fordham said that he has said at least that he alerted House leaders to Foley's behavior years ago. We're going to have much more on this in just a few minutes.
And another E. Coli scare. This time it's lettuce. A California grower is recalling Foxy brand lettuce already distributed to stores in seven states. The company is reacting to a test that shows that irrigation water might be tainted. So far, no reports of any illnesses.
And a poisoning scare in the ranks of Iraqi police. Several hundred officers reportedly became sick today after a meal on their base in southern Iraq. No word of anyone dying or just how sick they are. Investigators are checking out the food and water supply.
And south of Baghdad overnight, U.S. and Iraqi troops clashed with Shi'ite extremists in the city of Diwaniya. U.S. forces say they were on a mission to find a high-value target there. 30 militants are reported killed. American or Iraqi military casualties, 0.
No so many car bombs and killings. Is there a clear way out for the United States? By the end of this program, you will hear three separate ways the U.S. can claim victory in Iraq.
And at the half-hour, we're going to hear from our top CNN analysts, Major General Don Shepperd centers on the battle for Baghdad. And Brigadier General James Spider Marks takes on how long forces should stay. Then Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt joins us live for an in depth conversation from the nation's capitol.
Right now, we want to hear from you. Tonight's last call. How do you measure success in Iraq? Give us a call at 1-800-807-2620. We're going to air some of your responses later this hour.
North Korea without a friend when it comes to nuclear testing. China has now joined Japan, South Korea, and much of the West in strong language at Pyongyang and its intention to test fire an atomic weapon.
Meantime, former Secretary of State James Baker says it's important for all parties to keep talking.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES BAKER, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: I believe in talking to your enemies. I don't think you restrict your conversations to your friends. At the same time, it's got to be hard nosed. It's got to be determined. You don't give away anything. But in my view, it's not appeasement to talk to your enemies.
LIN: 4 inches of rain, that is a lot for central Utah. Yesterday's massive storm flooded the Fremont River, destroyed a dam, and washed away a huge chunk of Interstate road 24. Now crews are working through the night to make the damaged roads passable again.
And you bought more tickets to see "The Departed" this weekend than any other film. It was the debut of the new Martin Scorcese Mafia cop picture. And it ranked - well it raked in about $27 million at box offices nationwide.
All right, now it's your turn to choose the news. What stories do you want to hear more about? E-mail us at weekends@CNN.com. And we're going to get you flash feedback within the hour.
New revelations today in the scandal involving former Congressman Mark Foley. And 30 days to go until election day. There are still questions continuing over who knew what when.
Now Foley's former chief of staff is getting ready to tell his account under oath. CNN congressional correspondent Dana Bash reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A Republican congressional aide who says he warned the speaker's chief of staff about Mark Foley's inappropriate conduct with pages expects to testify before the House Ethics Committee this coming week.
Kirk Fordam's attorney tells CNN Fordham plans to tell the panel under oath what he has said publicly -- Hastert's top aide knew about Foley's worrisome conduct long before the speaker's office admits. REP. CHARLES RANGEL, (D) NEW YORK: When you take an oath, it's entirely different, and I'm talking about the perjury that would follow rather than the absence of memory of what's going on.
BASH: Sources familiar with Fordham's account of events tell CNN he was so concerned about Foley's behavior he arranged a meeting with Foley and Hastert chief of staff Scott Palmer in or before 2003 to demand that Foley stop inappropriate behavior towards pages.
Palmer's only response so far is, "what Kirk Fordham says did not happen." And the speaker's spokesman simply says they will let the Ethics Committee determine the facts.
This will be the challenge for the Ethics Committee over the next few weeks. Is there documentary evidence or witnesses to prove that the speaker's chief of staff met with Foley to raise concerns?
REP. TOM DAVIS, (R) VIRGINIA: Anybody that hindered this in any kind of way, that tried to step in the way of hiding this or covering up is going to have to step down.
BASH: Meanwhile, the Foley drama is reaching as far as Iraq to one of Congressman Ron Lewis' constituents, a former page who is serving there.
REP. RON LEWIS, (R) KENTUCKY: We had someone who is in the military, in Iraq, contacted my chief of staff to let us know that he had been approached by Mark Foley in 2001 and that he is speaking to the proper authorities.
BASH: The lingering questions make it hard for Republicans to quiet the Foley storm, which they admit will hurt them on election day, one month away.
REP. RAY LAHOOD, (R) ILLINOIS: This is going to be the most difficult 30 days in the last 12 years that we've been the majority party.
REP. ADAM PUTNAM, (R) FLORIDA: I can think of about three seats that are under a little more heat now as a result of the fallout from the Foley scandal.
BASH: One of those seats is Tom Reynolds of New York. He abruptly canceling a long-planned TV appearance Sunday after this stunning move.
REP. TOM REYNOLDS, (R) NEW YORK: Looking back, more should have been done and for that, I am sorry.
BASH: Airing an ad in his Buffalo district, insisting he told the House speaker about a questionable but non-explicit e-mail from Foley to a former male page.
(on camera): GOP lawmakers continue to blame Democrats for knowing about Foley's explicit e-mails and trying to damage Republicans by leaking it close to the election. None offered proof, but one GOP congressman told CNN there should be an investigation. Congressman Ram Emmanuel, the Democrat in charge of getting his colleagues elected, said he didn't see the Foley e-mails, had no involvement in their release, but stopped short of saying he didn't know they existed.
Dana Bash, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: Reaction from people in Foley's home district in Florida is pretty much the same -- shock. CNN's Amanda Rossiter spoke with some of them.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
AMANDA ROSSITER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At Longer Head Park in Juno Beach, family picnics are full of political talk about the Foley scandal.
PETER FEDOR, FLORIDA REPUBLICAN: I think there were some mistakes made, but that isn't going to change the way I vote.
ROSSITER: This family has been the 16th district for generations. All Republicans, all surprised at the scandal.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just looked at the job he was doing. And to me, I thought he was doing a good job for our district. And - but you know, when I heard it that day I was like wow, I can't believe this.
ROSSITER: This mother of three organized fundraisers for Foley years ago.
KATHY ROSALIA, FLORIDA REPUBLICAN: I was sick. I was sick that I took time away from my family to do something like that. And then years later, find out that maybe he was like that way back when.
ROSSITER: Inocencio Provenzza says he's more of a Democrat now than ever before.
INOCENCIO PROVENZZA, FLORIDA DEMOCRAT: It's a shame, you know, a guy like that, and that job, and the position he has, coming up now with the kind of things he's do, you know.
ROSSITER: Even life-long Republicans say they have questions for Foley.
MARK ZARUBA, FLORIDA REPUBLICAN: His personal actions are very contrary to what he's trying to accomplish in a political arena. So in that respect, I think the man, you know, has got a lot of explaining to do.
ROSSITER (on camera): Those answers may not come before election day. Mark Foley's whereabouts are still unknown.
Amanda Rossiter, CNN, Juno Beach, Florida. (END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: Get all your election 2006 news from the best political team on television and on the web. Go to cnn.com/ticker.
All right, people, police, troops -- all targets of insurgents. So what can be done? Well, we recruit some top generals to lay out a blueprint in the fight for Iraq.
But next, Brangelina's bodyguard doing his job? Or harassing the media? Our Shanon Cook goes global next in the NEWSROOM.
And then a new crash diet you truly don't want to try. One man survived for days on Wheat Thins.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: Well, the fight for Iraq, U.S. and Iraqi forces busy overnight south of Baghdad, battling militants loyal to a radical cleric. Dozens of casualties, but only on one side.
CNN's Arwa Damon with more details.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ARWA DAMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Heavy fighting broke out in the southern city of Diwani (ph), about 90 miles south of the capital Baghdad and a known Mehdi militia stronghold. That is the Shia militia loyal to radical cleric Muqtada al Sadr.
The U.S. military saying that they were launching a raid alongside with Iraqi security forces into the area looking for a high- value target. As they entered the area overnight on Saturday, they say they came under heavy small arms and rocket propelled grenade fire.
The U.S. military saying that they were attacked by at least ten of these rocket-propelled grenade firing squads. They say they destroyed six of them in the fighting thereafter. They say at least 30 suspected terrorists were killed.
They say that they detained this high-value target that they were looking for. He is believed to have been responsible for the murder of Iraqi army soldiers back on August 28th.
Now on August 28th, what happened was that insurgents overran the Iraqi police stations. They were driving out the Iraqi police, who then called in for Iraqi army backup, heavy fighting erupted.
Again, at that point in time back in August, fighting there killed at least 23 Iraqi army soldiers over 38 suspected insurgents.
Following those attacks, the Iraqi Ministry of Defense did send down two additional Iraqi army brigades.
Now, this is, again, a stronghold for the Mehdi militia. Of course, the issue of disarming the militias is one of the greater challenges that the Iraqi army faces, coming under heavy criticism to not taking specific active action to disarm these militias.
Violence, again, erupting across Iraq over the weekend. At least 23 Iraqis were killed over 60 wounded, violence stretching from Tala'ba (ph) all the way south through Salahudin (ph), Dialla (ph) Province and in the capital Baghdad.
And in Baghdad, Iraqi emergency police saying that over the weekend they found at least 75 bodies.
All of this, of course, as U.S. and Iraqi forces are continuing operations to try to bring stability to this country and a growing sense of despair amongst the Iraqi population.
Arwa Damon, CNN, Baghdad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: So with that as a back drop, we want to promise you that by the end of this program, you will hear three separate ways the U.S. can claim victory in Iraq. In 15 minutes, you'll hear from our top CNN analysts.
Major General Don Shepperd centers on the battle for Baghdad. And Brigadier General James Spider Marks comments on the U.S. time commitment. Then, Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt joins us live for an in depth conversation from the nation's capitol.
And don't forget tonight's last call question. How do you measure success in Iraq? Give us a call at 1-800-807-2620. We're going to air some of your responses later this hour.
Time now to check the other stories making news around the world. There is anguish and outrage at the murder of a Russian journalist. Shanon Cook has more of those details - Shanon?
SHANON COOK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, there. Thanks very much, Carol. Hundreds of demonstrators gathered in Moscow to remember investigative reporter Anna Politkovskya (ph). She was gunned down in the elevator of her Moscow apartment yesterday.
And we have images of a man police say could be her killer. It's believed he was merely a hired gun. Politkovskya (ph) was an outspoken critic of President Vladimir Putin's government. And her editor says she was close to publishing a story about torture and abduction in Cheynya. The prosecutor suggests her murder may be linked to her work.
So far, the Kremlin hasn't commented on the killing, but the White House released a statement urging the Russian government to conduct a full investigation.
Well, France will soon be calling it quits on a very French past time. The French prime minister says smoking will be banned in most public places in February. Bars, restaurants, hotels, and dance clubs will have a little longer to comply. They have until January of 2008. France joins a growing list of European countries, including Ireland, Spain, Italy, and Britain that have banned smoking in public.
Now check this out. It may look like a scene out of their next movie, but this Brangelina bodyguard isn't actually in the script. Film stars Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie are in India, making a movie about journalist Daniel Pearl. But a British paparazzo got on the wrong side of one of the couple's entourage.
The bodyguard, as we saw a second ago, grabbed the photographer by the throat when he refused to lower his camera. And of course, Carol, we don't really know what happened in the altercation that led up to that incident, but it looks pretty daring nevertheless.
LIN: Yes, got him by the neck.
COOK: Yes.
LIN: All right, so we didn't see the movie stars. Where was Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie during all of this?
COOK: Well, apparently, they were just trying to leave their hotel when they got bombarded by all these photographers. They actually did manage to get out and about today. You see them here in a picture there. They went for a rickshaw ride with their son, Maddux, but that had to be cut short because once again, they got bombarded by photographers, paparazzi. So they had to turn around and head back.
So hopefully when filming starts tomorrow, they'll have a little bit more privacy, but probably not. It actually looks like an interesting film. It's about Daniel Pearl.
LIN: That's right.
COOK: Of course he was slain in Pakistan about four years ago. And they wanted to film the movie in Pakistan. However, there were too many security concerns there. So they've had to settle for India.
LIN: Right.
COOK: And of course they've had their own security problems there already as it looks like.
LIN: Yes. Angelina Jolie pretty disappointed it wasn't going to be in Pakistan, but...
COOK: Yes.
LIN: Anyway, we'll look forward to the movie.
COOK: Got you.
LIN: Outtakes from the paparazzi.
COOK: Right, and we should point that she actually plays Pearl's widow.
LIN: Yes, Marianne Pearl. All right, thanks very much.
Now you've heard the intelligence that sent troops there. Now some top military minds talk about what's needed now to win the war in Iraq.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What we need to do is concentrate the forces in that area where the attacks are predominant and do what's called an economy of force or minimize our presence elsewhere. That fundamentally is called an oil stain strategy. And what that means is you work the problem from the inside out in several selected areas.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LIN: James Spider Marks.
But first survival snacks. Why you want to leave the microwave popcorn at home. Stay right here in the NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: Accessing stories across America now. An ending no one wanted in South Florida. Tonight, a 20-year-old female college student is dead and seven other people are injured. It happened when one boat plowed into another at the annual Columbus Day regatta just outside of Miami. Now four of the victims are in critical condition.
In Texas, friends and family gathered to pay their final respects to Anna Nicole Smith's 20-year old son. Daniel Smith was remembered as a child who liked to dress up as a cowboy and ride horses. Smith died last month while visiting his mother in the Bahamas. A private autopsy cites an accidental drug overdose.
And in Massachusetts, an amazing story. A 59-year-old diabetic survives four days on Wheat Thins and the morning dew. We're not talking about a soda.
Now the man hurt his leg when his car went off the road Tuesday. He was found Saturday morning by a good Samaritan out walking his dog. That's an amazing story of survival.
Let's hope everybody's Monday morning commute is a lot easier than that.
Rob Marciano standing by at the CNN Weather Center with some severe weather out there, Rob?
ROB MARCIANO, CNN METEOROLOGIST: We do have one tornado warning that's been posted in the last half an hour, Carol. It's associated with the same system that brought all the flooding rains to western or eastern parts of Virginia.
Now that system has sagged down to the south. You kind of see the rotation. The low's right about there. It's sort of acting like a tropical area of low pressure would in that it's got a lot of spin to it.
So because of that, the doppler radar in South Carolina has picked up a bit of a rotation right around Buford, indicating a tornado warning or a tornado could be dropping out of this cloud. Likely not a strong one, but nonetheless doesn't take much to do damage. And you see the heavy weather heads up all the way to Charleston. So just be aware of that.
And that's going to factor into if you have to do any sort of traveling through the Carolinas tomorrow, there's probably going to be some issues.
Also out in the inner mountain west, pretty strong system out there for this time of year. Some higher elevation snows and some showers as well.
All right, if you're traveling out of say Reagan or Baltimore, there will be morning fog and clouds, but it shouldn't last too long. Might get a delay out of that.
Also, Pittsburgh and through the three rivers area maybe some fog in the morning.
Some winds that could, you know, cause some delays in through Chicago, maybe Midway as well. But other than that, the Great Lakes look to be OK.
Again, the Carolinas could see delays and down across Miami in the afternoon. Some thunderstorms expected to fire up.
Salt Lake City, Denver, you have to travel through those hubs. There could be some delays in the afternoon due to showers and some thunderstorms.
Look at the cooler air barreling into Denver. 59 degrees. It'll be 73 degrees in San Francisco. 73 also in New York, but a nice 73. 75 degrees expected in Chicago. 68 degrees in Minneapolis. And 73 here in Atlanta. Carol, back to you.
LIN: Yes, looks like a nice fall weather. Thanks, Rob.
MARCIANO: You bet.
LIN: Now just ahead, three military minds, three different opinions. How can the U.S. claim victory in Iraq?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DON SHEPPERD: To win, we've got to go head to head with these militias and take them on. We've got to clear Sadr City. And after we clear Sadr City, we really have to continue to put pressure on the Iraqi forces to take on more of the load and to fight these militias. These are really, really difficult times in Iraq.
(END VIDEO CLIP) LIN: So we ask the tough questions about the fight for Iraq and when U.S. troops will return home. And don't forget tonight's last call. How do you measure success in Iraq? Give us a call at 1-800- 807-2620. And we're going to air some of your responses later this hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: The NEWSROOM is where you can find headlines tonight and tomorrow. Democrats take aim and use the Mark Foley scandal to make an election year point. For the first time in years, the party is running unified attacked ads in congressional districts across the country.
And Republican incumbents are firing back. Like Virginia Congresswoman Selma Drake.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Certainly, because Mark Foley did something wrong doesn't mean the film "A Drake" had anything to do with them. I'm a mother, I'm a grandmother. And I absolutely believe anyone that had that information and did not act immediately to protect our children is wrong and needs to be dealt with.
LIN: Saddam Hussein's genocide trial resumes tomorrow after a 12 day break. And again, the defense team may be a no show. The lawyers are vowing to boycott the proceedings. And protests of a new chief judge being appointed.
Meantime, we'll take a look at what's happening with the fight for Iraq in two minutes.
And there's a new E.Coli scare tonight. A California company has voluntarily recalling its Foxy brand lettuce in seven Western states. The owners say they're concerned water used for irrigation might have been contaminated with E. Coli.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LIN: But they aren't aware of anyone getting sick.
Meanwhile, the owner of an Iowa meat packing company says the government is off base. He says he should never have been asked to recall 5200 pounds of beef. The voluntary recall was issued Friday in seven states. Government inspectors were concerned the beef was possibly tainted with E. Coli.
But the company owners said it's safe.
And enjoy these lower gas prices while you can, because experts say they're going to be jumping up. The closer we get to winter.
On average, prices have dropped about 15 cents a gallon over the last couple of weeks. They're down about 75 cents from eight weeks ago. And finally, Terrell Owens' highly publicized return to Philadelphia settled only one score today. Philly fans kept their T.O. disdain to a minimum while number 81 just wasn't on top of his game. It was actually Owens' nemesis, Donovan McNabb, who had a stellar performance, leading the Eagles to a 38-24 win over the Cowboys.
And following up on the news that you choose, every weekend night we like to give you flash feedback.
A viewer wants to know more about the midair collision over Brazil a week ago. Well, you may recall a Boeing 737 went down in the Amazon jungle after it collided with an executive jet. Troops are still searching for victims of the country's worst air disaster. More than 150 people were killed. Today the Brazilian government sent an extra 80 troops into the jungle to help in the search.
Meanwhile, investigators are focusing on the actions of the pilots at the controls of the smaller plane. It was able to land safely after the collision.
Now, Brazilian authorities say the pilots may have turned off the jet's transponder which transmits the aircraft's location. The pilots, both from New York, are under orders to stay in Brazil until after the probe is over. Their passports have been seized.
All right. R.J. Friedman is a college student, and he'd like to help ease the suffering in Darfur but cannot travel and has no money to donate.
Well, R.J., you're not alone. Most large aid agencies have remote volunteer programs and a Web site we found can help you connect to one in your local area. The site is called networkforgood.org. They can put you in touch with CARE, Doctors Without Borders, and church groups dedicated to helping people of Sudan.
So good luck, R.J.
Gun battles and curfews, insurgents and troops; the ongoing struggle for security. For the next 30 minutes Iraq is our focus.
This last week was one of the deadliest. More than two dozen U.S. troops killed since the beginning of the month, 16 Iraqis killed, 40 others wounded. That is why we are bringing in the best of the best to help explain what needs to be done to secure Iraq and bring U.S. troops home safely.
CNN military analyst Don Shepperd spent 40 years in the Air Force before he retired. He also served in the Pentagon as the head of the Air National Guard until 1998, and today he runs his own defense consulting company, The Shepperd Group.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MAJ. GEN. DON SHEPPERD (RET), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: These are desperately difficult times in Iraq. We've all heard that, but we want to go from the big to the small and show you what's happening in Iraq right now, what U.S. and coalition forces are engaged in.
We're starting with the map of Iraq, itself. Let's zoom in on the provinces and take a look at the provinces themselves.
We've heard 14 of the 18 provinces are relatively secure, that's true, but there are four major problem areas: Anbar Province in the West, Salah ad Din Province; Diyala and of course, Baghdad Province itself.
Now the whole idea, if we show a map of U.S. force around the area was that U.S. forces were going train Iraqi forces and then support them. The Iraqi forces were going support the police. The U.S. force were going stand in the background. That was the whole idea. Let's zoom in, though, because it's now centering on Baghdad.
We've heard the big "B" word, the battle of Baghdad. Let's go into Baghdad and take a look at what's actually happening in Baghdad itself. In Baghdad, you have U.S. forces dispersed into what we call FOBs or Forward Operating Bases. Basically, you have Camp Liberty at the airport, you've got U.S. forces in the Green Zone, you've got helicopter support from places such as Taji in the North and then these Forward Operating Bases that forces deploy out to these and they go to support the Iraqi forces. That's the basic idea of what's happening in Baghdad.
Now we have neighborhoods in Baghdad to show you the complexity of what these force are dealing with. Sadr City right here, this is a Shia area, this is the site of the Mehdi Army of Muqtada al Sadr and right next to the Shia area you have Adhamiyah, which is a Sunni neighborhood -- basically right next to each other. Then you've got some mixed neighbors of Khadimiyah and Mansour, all of these areas have to be basically cleared and the whole strategy is basically clear, hold and build. Let's see how that's working as we zoom in on Sadr City and show you the difficulty of what all of these forces are dealing with in Sadr City.
Sadr City is northeast of part of Baghdad. It's on the Eastern banks of the Tigris River over there and it's an area of slums and what have you and it's an urban area. Now take a look at the difficulty of dealing with this type of area for the forces, whether you're military or whether you're police. You go in here and you've got thousands and thousand of houses. You've got some narrow streets, you've got intersections, each one of these is an opportunity for ambushes. All of these houses have to be cleared. The rooms in the houses have to be cleared and again, this is the site of al Sadr's Mehdi Army. It's a very, very difficult zone to operate in.
The whole idea was for the U.S. forces to stand in the background and support the Iraqi military and support the police. The police are not performing well. That means that U.S. forces are drawn back into the conflict. Let me show you what has to be done for us to get out of there.
To win we've got go head-to-head with these militias and take them on. We've got to clear Sadr City and after we clear Sadr City we have to continue to put pressure on the Iraqi forces to take on more of the load and to fight these militias.
These are really, really difficult times in Iraq. Things are not going well right now. This is more than a speed bump; it's a desperate battle for the security of Baghdad. Unless you can secure Baghdad, the capital, you can not have success in Iraq.
The strategy of clear, hold and build. You can't build unless you can hold, you can't hold unless you can clear. That's what's going on in Baghdad, and it's really, really tough.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: We also asked General James "Spider" Marks what he who do if he were in charge of the Iraq war today. General Marks served as the senior intelligence officer for the coalition in Iraq before retiring in 2004. He was also the commanding officer for the U.S. Army Intelligence Center, and he currently serves as senior vice president for a defense consulting firm in Washington.
Here's what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRIG. GEN. JAMES "SPIDER" MARKS, (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Let me address the challenges that our forces in Iraq are facing today and what I think is the way ahead.
Now, in many cases, our multinational core and multinational forces in Iraq are moving in this direction. But I want to highlight some of the things they're doing, and the real commitment that we need to make right now, that this nation needs to make, which is the commitment of time in order to achieve the results that we are all looking for.
Now, if I go to the map of Iraq, what we have right now primarily is a concentration of all the attacks against our forces in these four provinces, centralized around Baghdad, and then north and to the west. Now, within these four provinces that's where we have to focus our effort and time.
The U.S. presence and the coalition presence in country right now is concentrated from the border of Kuwait, all the way up to the Turkish border, out toward the Syrian border. What we need to do is concentrate the forces in that area where the attacks are predominant and do what's called an economy of force, or minimize our presence elsewhere.
That fundamentally is called an oil stain strategy. And what that means is you work the problem from the inside out in several selected areas. And that's what these coalition forces are trying to achieve right now. But it's going to take time.
Let me move back to the map and show you two representative examples of how that oil stain strategy can work. Let's take Baghdad and the border town of al Qaim. When the U.S. and coalition forces put their presence in those two locations, they will do it in such a way to impose their will on the enemy and the local population very broadly. You need to be able to destroy the enemy, but at the same time, you have to embrace the local population and allow them to see and to feel and to sense the fact that you're making a difference in their lives through the institution of governance and power and electricity and all the forms of life that you and I take for granted.
So if we can put force the in both al Qaim and Baghdad, for example, over the course of time -- and that's the key ingredient -- you'll have an oil stain effect that will spread outside of both of those from the inside out that will take that predominantly red area where the enemy tends to be imposing his will, we will impose our will and make a difference. This will take time.
So essentially, in summary, there are several things that I'd like to talk about.
Number one, in order for us to win and achieve victory in Iraq, we've got to adopt the oil stain strategy. I'd suggest that we are doing that right now. We've got to fix the problems inside out, and you've got to hold them long enough to ensure that the fix is in place. You've got to be able to then move that to those other locations and other areas of challenge.
Number two, this is going to take time. And if it takes time, it's going to take troops and it's going to take money. That commitment must be there from our nation.
Thirdly, I think it's very important that we not lose sight of the fact that it is not business as usual. Our very best officers and noncommissioned officers are involved in the training of the Iraqi security forces. That must not let up. We've got to keep that going full steam ahead.
And then finally, I think it's very, very important that we put larger presence, a larger presence of U.S. forces embedded in each Iraqi unit. We can have liaison teams. I think it's important that we put a larger presence -- for example, a company within a battalion or a brigade -- so that foundation is U.S. trained, the ethos of the professional U.S. military is present routinely with those Iraqi forces.
If those four steps are taken, victory is -- can be achieved in Iraq. It will take time, but it's doable.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: So how does the administration define victory in Iraq? Well, next in the NEWSROOM we go live to Washington and Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt. You remember him as the face and voice in the early days of the Iraq war.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) LIN: The path to victory in Iraq seems increasingly out of reach for the U.S. military, and this week proved to be one of the worst ever. Eight U.S. soldiers were killed in just one day on Monday in Baghdad. That's the most deaths in a day in the capital city since last year. A total of 27 U.S. troops have died in just the first week of October.
The U.S. military strategy in Iraq is obviously being challenged. What can be done to start winning against the insurgency?
Well, joining me now is one of the most recognizable faces from the beginning of the war in Iraq. General Mark Kimmitt is the former spokesman for the coalition forces in Iraq. He currently serves as a deputy assistant secretary of defense.
General, good to have you. Welcome to the program.
GEN. MARK KIMMITT, DEP. ASST. SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: Hi, Carol. How are you?
LIN: I'm doing just fine.
You obviously saw the war planning up front and personal. Tell us today as you see it, what is it going to take going forward to win and bring the troops home?
KIMMITT: Well, you know, I listened to General Shepperd and General Marks, and some of their points that they were making were exactly right.
First and foremost, we've got to have the patience and persistence to see this through. It's a combination of building up the Iraqi forces, it's a combination of letting them take more and more of the lead, and there are a significant number of non-military progress areas that need to be made as well -- reconciliation among the groups, disarmament of the militias, economic restoration, and infrastructure repair. That is being done, it is being done slowly, gradually, progressively, but nonetheless we are seeing tremendous amounts of progress even though it is coming in light of the increasing violence that we're seeing inside the country.
LIN: But more and more Americans are seeing that the Iraq war is something completely separate from the war on terror. How does the coalition address that in the light of the number of deaths and someone like Senator John Warner, the chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, saying if the Iraqi government cannot get a handle on this violence U.S. troops should leave in a matter of months?
KIMMITT: Well, I'm not certain that's what Senator Warner said. What he said was perhaps the progress of late has not been upward but has somewhat been sideways.
We have seen a difference since about February of this year, since the sectarian violence has been added on to the insurgency and the terrorist acts. We're seeing that fight going on inside of Baghdad predominantly right now. General Casey, General Chiarelli have a good plan for addressing the violence. It's going to take time, it's going to take patience.
LIN: All right. You say that there is a plan. What can you tell the American people, the military families who are seeing their loved ones go in not for just a second rotation, but a third? That with the rise of violence, do you see the current strategy as a winning one? Should this administration stay with the current strategy?
KIMMITT: You know, in general, Carol, the strategy doesn't have a better alternative. Nobody has the better idea.
The best idea continues to be to take the historical record of insurgencies. That's being defeated by local forces. Continue to train the Iraqi forces, give them more and more responsibility, both the police and the military.
It is certainly paying off in 14 of the 18 provinces. And one could anticipate that as we continue to show the patience, persistence to building the Iraqi forces, they will take on more and more of the responsibility.
LIN: Where do you -- where do you see that payoff when there are 24-hour curfews in cities and Baghdad is under siege?
KIMMITT: Well, what it suggests is that the sectarian violence, which we have seen grow since September, has not yet abated. But what we've got to do is we've got to give it a chance to work, give a chance for the Iraqi soldiers, the Iraqi police to maintain order so that the people inside of Baghdad understand that the Iraqi government and the Iraqi security forces are there for their -- for their best interests.
LIN: But, General, you're describing a catch-22. You're saying that there are better trained forces, that time is a factor, but the violence is getting worse. How do you reconcile progress with just the sheer number of deaths? I mean, 50 tortured bodies in a single day were found in Baghdad.
KIMMITT: No, nobody's suggesting that the situation is where we want it to be. The situation is going to get only worse if we are to back out and turn this over to ill-prepared police, ill-prepared government, and an ill-prepared military.
LIN: So, sir, can you give a timetable then? What do you think is a reasonable timetable to give the current strategy?
KIMMITT: Well, it is certainly not days nor weeks. We're talking months, if not years in which we will continue to support the Iraqi security forces.
More than likely, this will be with far smaller numbers of U.S. forces. But if we're going to win not only this fight inside of Iraq, but this long war against extremism and terrorism, we need to understand that this isn't going to happen overnight. This is a long war against an ideology that wants to turn the clock back 15 centuries, and we've got to just show the determination to see this through to win this fight.
LIN: All right. Do you see a win recently given the number of tortured bodies and the number of U.S. troops dead and those that have to return for yet another tour of duty? What can you tell those families?
KIMMITT: I think all those families understand by our record reenlistment rates, by our retention rates, these soldiers understand what's at stake. These families understand what's at stake. They're the ones that are putting their lives on the line and their families on the line to defeat this threat forward so we don't have to face it back here at home.
LIN: General Kimmitt, North Korea's nuclear threat, there is a question out there whether the U.S. can handle another front. Can the military handle a third front?
We're going to ask you that in just a moment. We're going to take a quick break.
Stay right with us right here in the NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: This just in to the CNN Center. A South Korean news agency, the Yonhap News Agency, is reporting that North Korea has performed its first ever nuclear weapons test. It is already Monday there.
South Korean officials could not immediately confirm this report yet, according to The Associated Press, but the South Korean president has convened a meeting of security advisers over the issue. The north said last week it would conduct a nuclear test as part of its deterrent against a possible U.S. invasion.
We are continuing our conversation now with General Mark Kimmitt about what the future holds for U.S. troops in Iraq.
But, General Kimmitt, your reaction to this? This may not come as a surprise to many people who have widely anticipated that North Korea would make this bold move. What do you think the implications are, and what are the military options for the United States, if any?
KIMMITT: Well, let me say, first of all, let's find out exactly what happened, let's not rush to judgment, whether it did happen or didn't happen. But nonetheless, South Korea is a sovereign nation, South Korea has a significant amount of military forces.
General Burwell Bell and U.S. Forces Korea are helping those forces as well, if need be. And I remain confident that we certainly have got the capability to address whatever the situation bears out to be.
LIN: Let's say there was a nuclear test. You've already got China in play right now with harsh warnings to North Korea to not conduct this sort of test or face some serious consequences. If there is a test, doesn't it seriously escalate or put pressure on an arms race in the region?
KIMMITT: Well, not necessarily. What it does is put pressure on the diplomacy in the region.
Let's let the diplomats work this out. There's a clear coalition, almost unanimity within the region with regards to North Korea that they can't be permitted and should not be permitted to have a nuclear weapon.
China agrees with that. Japan agree with that. The whole six- party talks are clear on that point.
LIN: So, under what circumstances, what conditions would it be appropriate to have U.S. boots on the ground when it comes to North Korea's nuclear intent?
KIMMITT: Well, we have U.S. boots on the ground. We've had U.S. forces in Korea, South Korea, since the end of the Korean War. That's what they're there for.
LIN: I'm talking about boots on the ground in North Korea. If there is a military scenario, what would you see it being with a U.S. role in it?
KIMMITT: Oh, Carol, I think at this point going down that hypothetical would be unwise. We have significant amount of capability in the region, significant amount of military capability and diplomatic capability. And I think we're -- we've got a long ways to go before we talk about military boots in North Korea.
LIN: So you anticipate it will be a diplomatic response but not a military one?
KIMMITT: I -- every diplomatic response is always better done knowing that there's significant military capability behind that response.
LIN: But what would that military capability be from the U.S. standpoint? You're talking about South Korea, but not the United States?
KIMMITT: Well, South Korea has a very, very modern, very, very effective military force. It is assisted by United States Forces Korea, and many other forces in the region as well.
LIN: Sir, there are hundreds of thousands of soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan. If the United States is forced to commit troops elsewhere, do you see there being a draft?
KIMMITT: No, I don't see a need for a draft at this point. If you take a look at the kind of capabilities we would probably need in that region, it goes far more to air, naval forces, rather than boots on the ground. LIN: All right. So military draft in the near future then?
KIMMITT: That's a political decision. I personally as a military professional don't see the need for it. But again, that's a decision that needs to be made by the country.
LIN: So do you think that the United States at this point would be able to front a third front -- I mean, if not in North Korea, then perhaps in Iran or elsewhere?
KIMMITT: Carol, I remain confident that this country retains a significant amount of force and capability to do whatever our nation asks us to do.
LIN: All right.
General Mark Kimmitt, it's a pleasure to have you on this developing story, as well as what the war plan may be, should be, would be in Iraq.
Appreciate it.
KIMMITT: Thank you, Carol.
LIN: All right. We've had this developing story on the fact that the South Korean news agency, Yonhap News Agency, reporting that North Korea has performed its first ever nuclear weapons test on Monday.
South Korean officials not immediately confirming this report, but we want to give you background and context as to what this might mean and what the dispute has been internationally over North Korea's nuclear intent.
Here's Zain Verjee.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The U.S. and North Korea, capital and communist foes, forced to confront each other over the north's nuclear program. One former Clinton State Department expert says since the Bush administration took office, the uneasy relationship has gone from bad to worse.
WENDY SHERMAN, THE ALBRIGHT GROUP: The Bush administration has decided that it wants to try to isolate North Korea, squeeze North Korea, maybe end the regime.
VERJEE: After seeing regime change in action in Iraq, the feeling in Pyongyang, according to analysts, we're not going to let what happen to Saddam Hussein happen to Kim Jong-il.
MIKE CHINOY, PACIFIC COUNCIL ON INTERNATIONAL POLITICS: The North Koreans have concluded that this administration is not serious about negotiating with them.
VERJEE: Experts say the relationship started to deteriorate after 9/11.
In January 2002, President Bush branded North Korea as part of an "axis of evil". In October 2002, North Korea was discovered to be secretly enriching uranium, a violation of an agreement with the U.S. In December 2002, the U.S. cut off heavy fuel shipments to North Korea, angering Kim Jong-il.
North Korea kicked out weapons inspectors, fired up its nuclear facility at Yongbyon, and pulled out of the nuclear nonproliferation treaty. Diplomatic efforts, the six-party talks, have stalled.
Angering North Korea, too, financial sanctions. The U.S. accuses North Korea of illicit activities like counterfeiting and drug smuggling, and has frozen North Korean accounts and turned off money supply.
July 2006, North Korea test-fired seven missiles, including a Taepodong-2 missile believed capable of hitting Alaska. Experts say North Korea's goal is regime survival.
And its style...
CHINOY: A combination of brinksmanship and confrontation on the one hand and negotiations on the other.
VERJEE (on camera): Now North Korea has tested a nuclear bomb, it's a nuclear power. And Washington appears powerless to change that.
Zain Verjee, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: Once again, breaking news right now at the CNN Center as a South Korean news agency is reporting that North Korea has performed its first test ever of a nuclear weapon. It is already Monday in North Korea.
Let's go to our Sohn Jie-ae. She's standing by in South Korea, in Seoul.
Jie-ae, what do you know about this? Is there any confirmation of this?
SOHN JIE-AE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Carol, what we are hearing is that now the North Korean news agency, the KCNA, is also saying itself that North Korea has successfully conducted a nuclear test. They said that they had done this successfully, safely, without any leakage.
The reports coming from the South Korean media seem to back this. The South Korean media say that there has been a detection of a -- of a -- of some sort of explosion in North Korea, in the northern part of North Korea.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
