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U.S. Pushing Resolution at Security Council on North Korea; Chinese Policy Toward North Korean Nukes Uncertain
Aired October 09, 2006 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Hello everyone. I'm Kyra Phillips. Welcome back to CNN NEWSROOM.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Don Lemon. We welcome you back.
We're in the world headquarters in Atlanta. We're going to get to our top story in a moment now. We're talking about North Korea. Let's get straight to it. Why don't we head over to the U.N. and talk to Richard Roth.
Richard, what do you have for us.
RICHARD ROTH, CNN SR. UNITED NATIONS CORRESPONDENT: Well, the United States is pushing a resolution here at the United Nations Security Council which includes some pretty stringent recommendations.
The United States is asking for a trade ban on all military goods and luxury items going into North Korea, an arms embargo of sorts, the ability to stop all cargo for inspection in and out of North Korea, and to call for the North Koreans to return to those famous six party nation talks. U.S. Ambassador John Bolton is trying to rally unity among the council to respond to North Korea.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN BOLTON, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: I was very strongly encouraged by the mood of the council, by the swiftness with which we went through this issue and by the strength of the feelings expressed. Now, we'll see how the negotiations go but I think we're off to an important start here so that the message to North Korea and, more important, even in the message, the strong steps we feel the council should take can be swiftly adopted.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
ROTH: The U.N. Security Council has already agreed to condemn North Korea which it did in a statement but the harder part will be getting that resolution passed. North Korea's United Nations ambassador does not take part in those discussions, it's among just the 15 countries. The ambassador did talk briefly with reporters outside his mission to the United Nations and then strolled to the United Nations headquarters. He thinks that the Security Council should be praising his country instead of condemning it, in what he called ridiculous statements.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) PAK GIL YON, N. KOREAN AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: Today? And this will be great contributable in maintaining and guaranteeing the peace and security in the Korean peninsula and the region. And I'm very much proud of our scientists and the researchers who have conducted such a very, very successful nuclear underground test.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
ROTH: North Korea's ambassador says his country now has a nuclear deterrent to any possible U.S. invasion of his country. Don?
LEMON: All right Richard. We were talking last week about a secret vote for a new U.N. Secretary-General, I understand that has happened?
ROTH: Yes, the United Nations Security Council has now officially endorsed the candidacy and the person himself, Bon Ki Mun(ph), the foreign minister of South Korea to be the next Secretary- General of the U.N. The council decided to do it behind closed doors. The minister who has been selected says he wants to go -- the secretary-general to North Korea, something he says Kofi Annan didn't do in 10 years in office and he wants to be a player in this long- running dispute. The soft spoken foreign minister of South Korea did represent his country at nuclear talks already with the north. Many see the timing of North Korea's nuclear announcement and then subsequent testing as aimed directly at Bon Ki Mun(ph) and at the United Nations. That it was no accident that these events happened just as the South Korean was getting the big diplomatic post here, which he will start January 1st.
LEMON: Richard Roth at the U.N., thank you sir.
PHILLIPS: Unacceptable, provocative, requiring an immediate response. President Bush's initial response to North Korea's reported nuke test, our Kathleen Koch, live at the White House. Kathleen?
KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes Kyra, very tough talk from President Bush this morning at the White House calling this apparent nuclear weapons test by North Korea a threat to international peace and security saying that it deserves an immediate response from the United Nations Security Council. President Bush in his remarks in the White House this morning said that he called the leaders of China, Japan, South Korea and Russia to discuss North Korea's actions. He said that all of the countries unanimously agreed that they were unified in their commitment for a nuclear free Korean peninsula. The president insisted that North Korea's alleged test yesterday will only serve to hurt the already suffering citizens of North Korea.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: Threats will not lead to a brighter future for the North Korean people nor weaken the resolve of the United States and our allies to achieve the nuclearization of the Korean peninsula. Today's claim by North Korea serves only to raise tensions, while depriving the North Korean people of the increased prosperity and better relations with the world offered by the implementation of the joint statement of the six-party talks.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
KOCH: And that dispelling any speculation whatsoever that yesterday's talks might persuade the United States to capitulate and agree to one-on-one talks with North Korea. Press Secretary Tony Snow this afternoon confirming that the Bush administration still believes that the best path to peace and prosperity for North Korea is to return to the six-nation talks. Snow also had a brief discussion with me about whether or not how long it's going to take to determine whether or not this was or was not a successful nuclear test. He said it could be a matter of hours, but it could take another day or two. Snow saying, quote, "Right now, we're just not in a position to say." Kyra?
PHILLIPS: Well to this point, though, let's take a look at the timeline quickly. What did we know and when?
KOCH: Well, actually, the U.S. got a very brief heads-up this test was about to occur but only at the lowest levels. North Korea let China know around 9:00 p.m. last night eastern standard time that it was going to conduct the test. China then immediately let the U.S. embassy in Beijing know but that certainly was not time for the U.S. to intervene in any way. At 9:35 the U.S. geological survey detected a seismic event in North Korea. Then it was 9:45 when the embassy notified Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice who reached out to national security advisor Steven Hadley and who then contacted President Bush right around 10:00 p.m. But again, even if the U.S. had had more notice, Kyra, there is really very little it could have done.
PHILLIPS: Sure and still pursuing the truth here whether that seismic event indeed was a nuclear test or some other type of explosion. Kathleen Koch, thanks.
KOCH: You bet.
LEMON: Well some have called him a tyrant, others a mad man, a clown. But no one's laughing at, brushing off or glossing over Kim Jung Il any more. Our Stan Grant takes a closer look at the reclusive North Korean leader.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
STAN GRANT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He is the son of the father, a boy in the image of the man. To some close observers Kim Jong-Il's has been a life in the shadows.
MICHAEL HARROLD, FORMER KIM SPEECH WRITER: He keeps one step behind his father so to speak, metaphorically, as well as probably literally. I tended to get the impression though that he's quite a shy man, strangely.
GRANT: Others have been close enough to see beyond the myth of the dear leader. South Korean grandmother Park Yong-Kil has known the North Korean dictator for more than a decade. A campaigner for north south reunification, she was invited to Pyongyang when Kim Jong-Il succeeded his father in 1994. She says for all of his power she glimpsed a personal sadness.
PARK YONG-KIL, KIM JONG-IL'S FRIEND: I noticed two pictures of his mother on the bookshelf. Kim Jong-Il lost his mother young. He always missed his mother and tried to please his father and be a good son. Such a man can't be evil.
GRANT: The truth of Kim Jong-Il remains locked away in his hermit kingdom. To North Koreans he was born in a mountain cabin under a bright star and a double rainbow. The heavens announcing the arrival of a quote, "General who will rule the world." There is another, though, more earthly tale. The birth of a Yuri (INAUDIBLE) Kim in an army camp in the then Soviet Union. The son of a Korean communist guerrilla, Kim Il Song, later a North Korean president, a man worshiped by his people as a god. Michael Harrold is one of the few foreigners to work inside the North Korean government. For eight years he translated Kim Il Song's speeches. It is the father, he says, not the son, from whom all power flows.
HARROLD: For a time, I was also language advisor for the English translations of Kim Jong-Il speeches and he prefaced his comments with references to the leader. The leader told us to do this. So he said, you know, he's telling people himself that his authority comes from his father. He's not denying that.
GRANT: Still in the decade since his father's death, Kim Jong-Il has nurtured his own (INAUDIBLE) personality.
HARROLD: In North Korea, he is portrayed as a kindly person, thoughtful, hard-working, you know, always mindful of his people's needs.
GRANT: In the United States, he's being branded a tyrant, a man who has built monuments to his father, while his people have starved. And almost the (INAUDIBLE) caricature of a dictator. A small man in elevator shoes and pompadour hairstyle. A playboy who dabbles in film and theater. His own propaganda video showing him as director, musical maestro and dance instructor. A man who is now brandishing the threat of nuclear weapons. Yet, friends like Park Jong-Kil insists there is nothing to fear.
JONG-KIL: It will be the end of the world if he uses that. Do you think he will do that? He's a very soft person. I don't think such a person would want war. I was never threatened by him.
HARROLD: I think he is underestimated. I also think he's something of a reformer, to be quite honest.
GRANT: But a man grueling with his father still on his shoulder, surrounded by his father's old generals with a failing economy of hungry people and presiding over what the U.S. has called part of an international axis of evil. So many questions to be asked of a man racked up in a myth. Stan Grant, CNN, Beijing.
(END OF VIDEOTAPE) LEMON: North Korea defies the U.S., the U.N., even China. "AC 360" takes a look at the impact, the fallout, and what's next. Plus, go undercover in the secret state for a brutal look at life inside North Korea. That's tonight beginning at 10:00 eastern.
PHILLIPS: Six years of secrecy, "The Washington Post" reports Republican Congressman Jim Colby knew about inappropriate internet messages from his then colleague Mark Foley as far back as 2000. "The Post" says that a former page showed Colby the messages and Colby confronted Foley. Well a former Foley aide is expected to talk this week to the House Ethics Committee. An attorney for Kirk Fordham says that he expects Fordham to tell the panel that he told House Speaker Dennis Hastert's chief of staff about Foley's conduct in 2003. That aide, Scott Palmer, denies it. Now Foley and both Fordham have quit. Should others follow? A new CNN poll conducted by Opinion Research Corporation finds just more than half of those surveyed say that House Speaker Dennis Hastert should resign. Almost a third say he should stay. Seven percent aren't sure. Now the same poll asked about lawmaker's ethics. It shows Americans are split on whether most Republicans in congress are ethical. Forty-seven percent say they are. Forty-four percent disagree. Democrats in congress fare a little better. Fifty-four percent say that most Democrats are ethical, about a third say that they're not.
LEMON: Well it seems as though North Korea doesn't have a friend in the world today. Its claim of an underground nuclear test brings blanket condemnation to the surface. We'll cover it. This developing story straight ahead in CNN's NEWSROOM.
PHILLIPS: An Iraqi police poisoned by food but was it by accident? Served by enemies armed with a frightening new tactic. That's coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: In Iraq, everyday is the same yet everyday is different. Today assassins struck the family of Iraq's vice president for the third time this year. Meanwhile, insurgents may, repeat, may, have found a new and unconventional weapon, at least in war fare. CNN's Arwa Damon is in Baghdad.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ARWA DAMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This could be a new insurgent tactic or just a case of food gone bad. These Iraqi police all have severe food poisoning. Hundreds of them fell ill after breaking their daily Ramadan fast on Sunday. Seven of us died, policeman Mohammed Qassim says. Most people here are in a bad shape now. No one is a hundred percent. We tried to help each other but we just fell one after the other. Iraq's ministry of defense denied any policemen had died but as is often the case here, the truth is illusive. Food and water is being tested. The chief of the mess hall detained. Regardless these men will not be back at work on the streets of Normania, 75 miles south of Baghdad any time soon. In (INAUDIBLE) images of a city struggling to return to a semblance of normal. Residents greeted each other amid the rubble of Sunday's fighting. A U.S. operation against Shia militia left one U.S. Abrams tank damaged. And according to the military, 30 gunmen dead. In the capital itself, few can escape the daily violence however well connected. On Monday gunmen assassinated General Hamid Al Hashimi(ph), the brother of Iraq's Sunni vice president Toddick Al Hashimi(ph). His third sibling to be murdered in six months. A high price to pay for membership in Iraq's struggling government.
(on camera): In a span of 24 hours, police are poisoned. Senior officials murdered. Iraqi soldiers kidnapped. Suicide bombs explode. It is a daily diet of violence that leaves many Iraqis, especially here in the capital, feeling helpless. Arwa Damon, CNN, Baghdad.
(END OF VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: And three more U.S. troops are dead in Iraq. Marines killed yesterday in western Anbar Province, the heartland of the Sunni insurgency. At least 30 U.S. troops have been killed in just the first nine days of this month.
LEMON: Kurds buried alive, women terrorized by soldiers as they bathe. Part of the testimony today by a woman held prisoner during the dictatorship of Saddam Hussein. She spoke behind a curtain to protect her from reprisal. Now Hussein and his six co-defendants sat quietly for a change at their trial on charges of atrocities against the Kurds in the late 1980s. The trial continues tomorrow.
PHILLIPS: Difficult at best, nonexistent at worst. And the worst is the norm. Negotiations between North Korea and the outside world. Let's bring in a man with some firsthand experience, former negotiator Daniel Poneman. Daniel, good to see you. I guess first of all your reaction today there was talk about this alleged nuclear test. Some critics coming forward saying, look, it's a seismic event, it could just be explosions. North Korea is saying its a nuclear test and it might not be that.
DANIEL PONEMAN, FORMER U.S. N. KOREA NEGOTIATOR: It's possible. I think that you have to wait till all the seismic data is analyzed. If there is no venting of radioactivity as the North Korean's have asserted, it's in fact rather hard to tell especially with a small yield. That having been said I don't think there is any serious doubt in the community that North Korea has either the material to make a successful test or likely the technology.
PHILLIPS: Where is North Korea getting the materials?
PONEMAN: Well, they have been generating materials themselves in their own production reactor which we successfully shut down for a number of years in the 1990s and in early negotiation. But with the breakdown of the whole agreed framework that we negotiated with the North Koreans, they've been generating more plutonium. We now think they have probably enough for about 10 to 12 bombs.
PHILLIPS: Well what happened, why did that change? You were involved in that negotiation in 1994, I believe. And that was -- their nuclear program was supposed to be frozen, right? PONEMAN: Well we were very careful about how we talked about it. We froze their plutonium program. What happened was, a number of years later, the United States detected a clandestine uranium enrichment program. That's the other way to get the bomb. And when we called the North Koreans on it, it led to a disintegration of the relationship which ended up with the departure of North Korea from the nuclear nonproliferation treaty and now apparently a nuclear weapons test.
PHILLIPS: So why is it taking the U.S. -- you would think with something like this, because I know there were, through the night conference calls among military and political leaders. You would think that these tests would happen quickly, efficiently, and we would know right now, we wouldn't be playing this guessing game throughout the day. How long does it take to get a secure test result?
PONEMAN: Well, again, it depends on the data. You know, there's still debate now years and years later about an event that happened in the south Atlantic in September 1979. If you have a mushroom cloud, if you have venting of radioactivity you know very, very quickly indeed. But if it's a small test and if there is ambiguity in the data it could take days, it could take weeks and we may never know.
PHILLIPS: Meanwhile, within the past hour and a half, we've learned about these sanctions that have been -- or are being proposed. Right here, including a trade band on military and luxury items, the power to inspect all cargo entering or leaving the country and freezing assets connected with its weapons programs. Will these work? Is this the answer?
PONEMAN: Look, I don't think any one-dimensional program or policy is the answer. I think clearly, clearly, we need to show North Korea that there is a significant downside to their continued use of and exploitation of nuclear weapons. That having been said we have to give them something to say yes to. There I would go back to the September principles agreed last year among the six parties, including North Korea that would lead to a denuclearized Korean peninsula. If we could show them an up side to doing the right thing and a clear down side for doing the wrong thing, at least we'd have a chance.
PHILLIPS: Ok, so how do you prove that? What is the downside that you prove? What is the upside that you prove? Because Kim Jong- Il, so many leaders in this country thinks he's absolutely crazy and it won't matter what you try to prove to him. This is a guy that doesn't think on a rational level.
PONEMAN: You know, I think that is a very common view and I think extraordinarily misleading. If you look, I think this leader has played a very poor hand, very shrewdly, very shrewdly indeed. I think the only way Kyra to get back to your question to get this right is to have a clear solid message, beginning with the P-5 in the Security Council. We need China, we need our treaty allies, South Korea and Japan. We all have to say the same thing and what we have to say is, you, North Korea, if you comply with our expectations about nonproliferation can look to a safe, secure, energy-rich future. If you don't you can look to increased isolation and hardship and I think it has to be that clear and that blunt.
PHILLIPS: Daniel Poneman, appreciate your time today.
PONEMAN: Thank you.
LEMON: A chilling murder in Moscow. A well-known critic of the Putin government the apparent victim of a contract hit? We'll have a live report on the investigation, that's just ahead in THE NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Reports of North Korea's nuclear test are grabbing the attention of governments all over the world but are they rattling investors on Wall Street? That is a question for Susan Lisovicz joins us live now from the New York Stock Exchange with the very latest. What's happening Susan?
SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN ANCHOR: Well not a whole heck of a lot Don. And you know we opened lower as did Asia, of course, as you mentioned. Oil was sharply higher. Oil has since retreated. Only up about 20 cents on the day. And stocks are mostly higher right now. Actually, the Dow touched a new intraday high about a half hour ago. Investors not reacting much to the reports of North Korea's nuclear test. It's Columbus Day, volume is light. So we're also getting earnings season starting tomorrow so it's kind of tentative. Right now the Dow Industrials are down about seven points. But just to put that in perspective we're about 20 points from the all-time closing high that we saw last Thursday. The NASDAQ is higher, it's up eight points or about a third of a percent. One of the big winners at the NASDAQ today is Google. Its shares are jumping more than 2 percent. Published reports say Google is close to buying the popular online video site Youtube for about one and two thirds billion dollars. The deal could reportedly be announced after the closing bell today. Neither Google nor Youtube are commenting on the story but it is widely expected. Don?
LEMON: You know what there's a lot with this because there are reports that you know there could be some questions about copyright, trademark infringements, right. And then also Youtube hasn't turned a profit. So do you think that's a lot to pay for Youtube?
LISOVICZ: Yeah it's like sort of shades of the dotcom era that we saw a few years ago right. Youtube has not generated the kind of revenue normally involved in a deal of this size. You remember, over a billion dollars is what we're talking about. Yet to turn a profit, as you noted. But it's still a hugely popular website, especially among younger internet users that is very desirable for advertisers. It certainly is a destination on the net. People view a whopping 100 million videos on Youtube everyday of all sorts. A deal would instantly make Google the biggest name in online video and give a huge boost to Google's video site. In fact, Youtube is such a desirable property that some analysts say Google may actually face a bidding war. Analysts say Microsoft, Yahoo and Newscorp which owns the popular Myspace.com social networking site, may also be thinking about making an offer for Youtube. We'll see. And that's the latest from Wall Street. I'll be back in a half hour with a wrap-up of the trading day. For now, Don, back to you.
LEMON: All right, thank you very much. Susan Lisovicz - you know what I did learn is it only comes out to $32 per Youtube user that they would be paying for.
LISOVICZ: Well there you go. A real value then, right?
LEMON: Doing my homework just for you. Thank you Susan.
LISOVICZ: I'm impressed.
LEMON: Thank you.
PHILLIPS: Straight ahead from THE NEWSROOM, facing off over North Korea's nuclear program. How the world got to this day and where it might go from here. CNN is all over this quickly developing story. We're going to take you to the DMZ. Our Dan Rivers was there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Once again, North Korea has defied the will of the international community and the international community will respond.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: North Korea testing the world's patience and pushing the limits and the world pushes back. Allies, enemies, neighbors all firing a barrage of criticism at Pyongyang over its claim of testing a nuclear weapon.
But the north says it deserves congratulations, not condemnation. Now it's a line in the sand, an unresolved remnant from the Cold War, but North Korea's apparent nuclear test could make the demilitarized zone, the DMZ, something much more.
Our Dan Rivers is near the no-man's land between North and South Korea, where he has a clear view of the impact.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAN RIVERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Where you joined me about as close as you can get to the border of North Korea. I'm standing literally just on the edge of the demilitarized zone. If we pan the camera across, this area here is strewn with mines and has been like this demilitarized zone since the end of the Korean War in 1953. North Korea lies about two kilometers up this way just out there in the mist and the haze.
Now this has become a massive international fault line after the news that North Korea has successfully tested this nuclear weapon. We understand from Russian confirmation that the test was carried out underground and the Chinese are saying that it was the equivalent of about 550 tons of TNT. Now to put that in perspective, the bomb that was dropped on Hiroshima at the end of the second world war was 15,000 tons of TNT equivalent. So a fairly small blast conducted deep underground. It thought it was going to be conducted at the bottom of a coal mine right up in the northeast of North Korea.
But now, clearly, this has ratcheted up tensions here on the Korean peninsula, especially for the government of South Korea, a government which has long gone for policy of engagements with the North Koreans and now that policy, some would say, has come slightly unstuck, because the North Koreans have developed this nuclear bomb. They've said they were going to test it, and now they have tested it.
A lot of condemnation has come in, as one would expect, from the Chinese, from the United States, from Japan. But everyone now is concerned about what this means for this region. What does this mean for the six-party talks? Effectively they are left in tatters. And perhaps more importantly, what does this mean for the region? Does this now mean that this part of Asia is going to be engaged in an arms race?
Already, the South Korean army has been put on a state of higher alert after this bomb. What does this mean for the rest of the region? Does it mean now that South Korea and possibly Japan will also seek to get a nuclear deterrent? And what message does this sent to countries like Iran, who have been trying to develop nuclear weapons that critics say, does this now give them a green light to go ahead and test that? Dan Rivers, CNN, in the demilitarized zone of South Korea.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: Axis of evil, regime change, war in Iraq. North Korea's drive to build nuclear weapons is seemly fueled by equal parts defiance and paranoia. And some feel both of those are fueled by the words and deeds of the Bush administration. CNN's Zain Verjee joins us in New York with the latest -- Zain?
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Don, the Clinton administration pursued a policy of engagement with North Korea. The Bush administration has pursued quite a different one. Have we come from the year 2000 to today?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VERJEE (voice-over): The U.S. and North Korea, capital and communist foes forced to confront each other over the north's nuclear program. One former Clinton State Department expert says since the Bush administration took office, the uneasy relationship has gone from bad to worse.
WENDY SHERMAN, THE ALBRIGHT GROUP: The Bush administration has decided that it wants to try to isolate North Korea, squeeze North Korea, maybe end the regime.
VERJEE: After seeing regime change in action in Iraq, the feeling in Pyongyang, according to analysts, we're not going to let what happened to Saddam Hussein happen to Kim Jong-il.
MIKE CHINOY, PACIFIC COUNCIL ON INTL. POLITICS: North Koreans have concluded that this administration is not serious about negotiating with them.
VERJEE: Experts say the relationship started to deteriorate after 9/11. In January 2002, President Bush branded North Korea as part of an axis of evil. In October 2002, North Korea was discovered to be secretly enriching uranium, a violation of an agreement with the U.S.
In December 2002, the U.S. cuts off heavy fuel shipments to North Korea, angering Kim Jong-il. North Korea kicked out weapons inspectors, fired up its nuclear facility at Pyongyang and pulled out of the nuclear nonproliferation treaty. Diplomatic efforts, the six- party talks, have stalled.
Angering North Korea, too, financial sanctions. The U.S. accuses North Korea of elicit activities like counterfeiting and drug smuggling and has frozen North Korean accounts and turned off money supply.
July 2006, North Korea test-fired seven missiles, including a Taep'o-dong 2 missile believed capable of hitting Alaska. Experts say North Korea's goal is regime survival and its style?
CHINOY: Combination of brinkmanship and confrontation on the one hand and negotiations on the other.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VERJEE: The Bush administration has condemned the claimed test. So the U.N. Security Council, the U.S. is pushing for sanctions against North Korea at the United Nations. But it's not really clear where Russia or China stand right now -- Don?
LEMON: And Zain, you know what, China really supplies a lot of the food, a lot of the oil and fuel to North Korea. Is China really the key in all of this?
VERJEE: A lot of observers are saying, yes. All eyes are trained on China right now. And it is the key, how hard are they going to lean on North Korea? The question is how angered are the Chinese going to be over this and more importantly, what are they going to do?
And you hit it. I mean, China supplies the critical fuel and food that provides the lifeline really to North Korea and are they going to cut that off and try to use it as some sort of arm-twisting mechanism to get the North Koreans back to the bargaining table?
A lot of experts I talked to, Don though say that they don't think that the Chinese are going to really push for hard sanctions against North Korea because that would essentially spell the collapse of the regime and that's something that China is not willing to deal with. It doesn't want millions of North Korean refugees across its border.
LEMON: And Zain of course, North Korea is concerned in itself with them having a nuclear weapon. But really the concern here is that some leader, from some country that we don't want to comes along with big pockets and offers lots of money to get a nuclear weapon from North Korea. That's really a concern, isn't it?
VERJEE: Yes, it is. It's actually one of the biggest fears of the United States. It's the red line that North Korea would take its fissile material, its nuclear materials and give it to a terrorist or to a rogue regime.
But the North Koreans have acknowledged publicly in a statement that they know that that's a red line and they've said that they're just not going to do it. However, it's an erratic and contradictory and unpredictable regime. You don't really know.
One expert I talked to said that there are scenarios where that could happen if the north was really desperate for cash. They could do that, or if there was a situation where North Korea just collapsed and a rogue general or a rogue faction got a hold of the plutonium and decided to sell it.
LEMON: Zain Verjee in New York, thank you very much.
PHILLIPS: Chilling murder in Moscow. A well-known critic of the Putin government, the apparent victim of a contract hit. We'll have a live report on the investigation is straight ahead from the NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Well, in case you missed it over the weekend, a shocking story out of Russia. An apparent hit on a journalist known for her fearless pursuit of the truth.
CNN's Matthew Chance has the story now from Moscow.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Grainy images of a man police say could be the killer of the one of the Kremlin's most outspoken critics captured on closed circuit television cameras. Few believe he was anything more than a hired gun.
Anna Politkovskaya, a prominent Russian journalist, was found slumped in the elevator of her Moscow apartment building, shot four times in the head and chest. Prosecutors say it looks like a contract killing linked to her work.
A determined investigative reporter and a fierce critic of President Vladimir Putin, Anna made powerful enemies. Her reporting of Russia's war in Chechnya was relentless. She was one of the only independent Russian journalists who continued to travel there, exposing human rights abuses despite the risks.
ANNA POLITKOVSKAYA, RUSSIAN JOURNALIST: (Speaking in Russian) CHANCE: "Each time I returned from Chechnya, I appreciate my life," she says. "I love my life because it can be finished at any time."
On occasion, Anna stepped outside the role of journalist, negotiating with Chechnyan militants who took hundreds of hostages in a Moscow theater in 2002. In 2004, during the Beslan School siege, she believed she had been poisoned to prevent her from covering what turned out to be a fiasco, with more than 330 killed.
As a mother of two, she spend periods of time outside Russia to protect her family from death threats. She often spoke to colleagues about what she believed was an official campaign of intimidation against her.
PAVEL FELGENHAUER, JOURNALIST: Putin's Russia is an authoritarian, aggressive dictatorship where people, who are trying to write real journalism, are constantly under threat.
CHANCE: But till the end, Anna continued to report. Her recent work was sharply critical of the Kremlin-backed administration in Chechnya and the militia controlled by its controversial prime minister.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: That was CNN's Matthew Chance reporting.
LEMON: The health of Fidel, like much of Fidel Castro's Cuba, a closely guarded secret. Cuba's acting president, Raul Castro, is denying new reports that his older brother is dying.
In its new edition, "Time Magazine" reports that many people connected to U.S. intelligence think the ailing Cuban leader has terminal cancer. But Raul Castro says Fidel is recovering daily from intestinal surgery on July 31st. Fidel Castro has not appeared publicly since July 28th -- 26th, rather, and no new photos have been released in three weeks.
PHILLIPS: Not once, not twice but today makes three times assassins have attacked the family of Iraq's Sunni vice president. In attack number three, gunmen wearing military uniforms killed the brother of Tariq Al-Hashimi in his Baghdad home. Five months ago, the vice president's sister and another brother were gunned down within two weeks of each other.
Elsewhere today, gunman kidnapped 11 Iraqi soldiers in Baghdad's Sadr City, the stronghold of the Mahdi Militia of Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. Also, five police officers were killed in separate attacks northeast of the capitol. Yesterday, police recovered 35 bullet riddled bodies, some showing signs of torture. More than 250 bodies in similar condition have been found in the city so far this month.
LEMON: Bombs, guns, kidnappings, torture, all are cruelly commonplace in Iraq. But poison? As many as 400 Iraqi police got very sick after their evening meals yesterday. Now several people are under arrest, including the man in charge of the mess hall. Many of the victims are Shiites. Sunni insurgents have not been known to use poison as a weapon. And authorities are not ruling out the possibility of accidental food contamination.
North Korea shocks the world with some pretty convincing claims of a nuclear test. More in the NEWSROOM, straight ahead.
PHILLIPS: Tonight at eight, more Foley fallout. As the blame game continues and new information comes out, we will separate fact from fiction in this growing scandal. Tonight, 8:00 Eastern.
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LEMON: North Korea's nuclear test claim is testing a longtime friendship.
CNN's Jaime FlorCruz has the latest from Beijing, China.
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JAIME FLORCRUZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: In the days before a flurry of diplomatic activity, tough words from the U.N. Security Council and leaders around the world. Chinese President Hu Jintao and Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe issued a joint warning, a test by North Korea could never be tolerated. Still, North Korea turned a deaf ear, announcing it had conducted its first nuclear test.
So where did diplomacy fail? China have hosted the six-party talks, playing a mediator's role as North Korea's closest ally and biggest supplier of food and energy. But even China could do nothing to stop the north from conducting a test, despite receiving a 20- minute warning from Pyongyang, according to U.S. officials. Some say that's because China's policy toward North Korea is weak and incoherent.
RUSSELL MOSES, POLITICAL ANALYST: Beijing itself can't agree on what exactly its policy towards the DPRK should be. You have a whole variety of analysts, elites, and others who have been looking at this situation and who don't really have a clear idea of what would work.
FLORCRUZ: Others say China's influence on North Korea is simply overblown.
YAN XUETONG, POLITICAL ANALYST: China's leverage on North Korea is based on its, kind of military -- security support and the political support and the economical aid. But now when China no longer provide that kind of support to North Korea and the influence also decline.
FLORCRUZ: Now, China is taking a harder line, saying it resolutely opposes such a, quote, "brazen act", the strongest language yet from China.
But harsh words cannot reverse North Korea's course. Now, it's a matter of how to deal with a Nuclear North Korea.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think that the world has got to assume after North Korean nuclear tests that there is no turning back from this. And I think that regrettably, many of the countries within the area are simply going to live with that fact.
FLORCRUZ: The six-party talks have been stalled for a year and Pyongyang wants nothing short of bilateral talks with the U.S. Despite diplomatic shortfalls, Beijing still hopes dialogue will save the day.
Jaime FlorCruz, CNN, Beijing.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: Well, the needles twitch on the seismograph and shockwaves circle the earth. A new nation enter the nuclear club. And if had you to sponsor a nation for membership, North Korea wouldn't be it.
But assuming the test, now more than twelve hours old, was it for real? What is next?
CNN's Zain Verjee takes a hard look.
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ZAIN VERJEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Nightmare unleashed. North Korea plays its ace and tests a nuclear bomb, confirming to the world it has one and is now a nuclear power.
CHRIS MILL, ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE: This is a very, very bad idea.
VERJEE: A show of defiance to the United States.
MIKE CHINOY, PACIFIC COUNCIL ON INTL. POLITICS: It's intended to show Washington that Pyongyang is not going to be intimidated.
VERJEE: Korea experts say the regime feels threatened. It sees the Bush administration pushing for regime change in other countries. North Korea made the decision the only hope for their security is to become a nuclear power.
WENDY SHERMAN, THE ALBRIGHT GROUP: They want the world to make sure that their regime survives in a way that is good for Kim Jong-Il.
VERJEE: But many say it's not looking good for the rest of the world. Washington's biggest fear, North Korea will sell nuclear material to terrorists or rogue regimes. Another possible scenario, China, Japan, South Korea, neighbors of a new nuclear power, will likely be provoked.
PETER BECK, INTERNATIONAL CRISIS GROUP: A test could lead to -- could put further pressure on an arms race in the region. VERJEE: Japan may arm itself to the teeth, beef up its military. It already has more than 50 nuclear plants for generating power, and could consider its own nuclear weapon. South Korea could do the same. Big problem for China, who wants to be the dominant player in Asia.
Analysts say Washington has a problem.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's no real military option and the North Koreans are already sanctioned in so many areas that additional sanctions are unlikely to make that much of a difference.
VERJEE: The hermit kingdom risks isolating itself further, but may figure it will get away with in the end, and the world will just have to live with it. All they have to do, experts say, is look at Pakistan. It tested, got condemned, nothing happened.
Zain Verjee, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: It was created by the U.S., the U.N., even China. "A.C. 360" takes a look at the impact, fallout and what's next.
Plus, go under cover in the secret state for a brutal look at the life inside North Korea. That's tonight, beginning at 10:00 Eastern.
LEMON: And now, it's time to check this with the man in New York. Wolf Blitzer is standing by in the "SITUATION ROOM" to tell us what is coming up at the top of the hour.
Hi, Wolf.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I was in New York yesterday, back in Washington today, guys.
Thanks very much.
The North Korean nuclear test. The world waits for the other shoe to drop. The U.S. is pushing for tough sanctions, but will that be enough to stop the atomic march? We're joined live in the coming hour by the chief U.S. negotiator, Chris Hill, and the former U.S. envoy, Bill Richardson.
Also, war scenario, is it even an option? Find out the consequences of a military conflict with North Korea.
Plus, a radioactive Washington scandal still unfolding. We have some new poll numbers on the impact of the Foley fallout, what it's having on Capitol Hill and the campaign trail.
Plus, we're going to talk live to the head of the Log Cabin Gay Republican. And one of the most powerful members of Congress, now calling for an independent, outside investigation.
All that coming up right here at the top of the hour in the "SITUATION ROOM". LEMON: Thank you, Wolf.
PHILLIPS: Thanks Wolf.
Well, the closing bell and a wrap of the action on Wall Street straight ahead.
Susan Lisovicz is coming up live.
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(WEATHER REPORT)
LEMON: The closing bell is about to ring on Wall Street. Susan Lisovicz is standing by with a final look at the trading day.
And I have to say, happy Columbus Day to you.
LISOVICZ: Happy Columbus Day, and it's definitely factoring into what we're seeing today, guys, because we're seeing much lighter volume, and, actually, kind of a quiet day here. But the bottom line is it looks like we're going to have a rally on a day when there are a lots of reports and a lot of talk about North Korea and its claims to have launched a missile -- a successful missile launch. You can see that while there was a big sell-off in Asia, that the Dow actually hit an intraday high and is very close to its all-time closing high that we hit last Thursday.
Hey guys, do you remember the Columbus's three ships real quick?
LEMON: Yes.
PHILLIPS: The Santa Maria...
LEMON: Nina, Pinta the Santa Maria.
LISOVICZ: You've got it.
Bingo, and the closing bells rings.
You can never fool our anchors on a nice day on Wall Street, the Dow hitting a new intraday high, but just shy of a closing bell high.
Now it is time for "THE SITUATION ROOM" and Wolf Blitzer.
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