Return to Transcripts main page

Nancy Grace

New York Yankees Pitcher Cory Lidle Dies in Plane Crash in Manhattan

Aired October 11, 2006 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, breaking news. Fire rains down on Manhattan five years, one month to the day of September 11. In the last hours, a four-seater fixed-wing Cirrus SR-20 crashes into a Manhattan high- rise, NORAD immediately scrambling fighter jets over key U.S. cities as the joint terrorism task force converges on the scene. Tonight, we go live for answers. Who is guarding the U.S. skies?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A Cirrus SR-20 crashed into a high-rise building this afternoon. The aircraft has a registration pending to Mr. Cory Lidle.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In this day and age, obviously, everybody is very sensitive when they hear something like a plane crashing into a building.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We just felt the vibration.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Turned back, there was a huge fireball. I was just running in the street and screaming to everybody, Call police, call police!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I heard the loud crash, and then I turned the corner, there were flames coming out of the side of the building.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was almost like a mushroom-type cloud of fire, and instantly, four apartments had burst in flames.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Half of whatever it was that crashed against the building fell, like, to the sidewalk.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was so scared. Let me tell you, I was so scared that I thought it was another terrorist attack.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. Thank you for being with us tonight. Again, fire raining down on Manhattan as a four- seater Cirrus SR-20 crashes into a Manhattan high-rise. There you see flames engulfing the floors of the high-rise, raining fiery debris down on passers-by. This is at York and 72, just on the East River.

Let`s go live to Tom Roberts, CNN Headline News anchor. What`s the latest?

THOMAS ROBERTS, CNN HEADLINE NEWS ANCHOR: Nancy, it`s a significant tragedy that happened in New York today, as you can imagine, certainly sending fear and shock waves through the city until people finally got answers about what happened. We are able to confirm tonight that the pilot of this plane was Cory Lidle, a Yankees pitcher, only with the team since July 30th, transferred there from the Phillies. But he was an avid flyer, ranking about 100 hours under his belt so far, really loved being in the air.

But what we do know about this condominium complex, it`s the Belaire. It`s in the Upper East Side of Manhattan. It ranges about $1.3 million for two and three-bedroom homes there. Luckily, nobody was injured inside that building. But Cory Lidle is presumed dead tonight. We are waiting confirmation, though, about that. We will do know his passport was found on the street. And there is also another body to be identified. We`re uncertain of who exactly was traveling in this four-seater passenger Cirrus SR-20 plane -- Nancy.

GRACE: And unconfirmed reports tonight along with Lidle is a flight instructor. We`ve been Trying to confirm that right now. Two people dead, that is the miracle, most likely the two in the plane, this plane crashing in, as see, crashing into a New York skyscraper. The miracle, so far, we know of no casualties inside the building.

That leaves us all wondering who is guarding the American skies. Let`s go straight out to Mary Schiavo, former inspector general, U.S. Department of Transportation. Welcome, Ms. Schiavo. Explain how an amateur pilot could be flying so low over the capital of the world.

MARY SCHIAVO, FORMER INSPECTOR GENERAL, U.S. DEPT. OF TRANSPORTATION: Nancy, that`s an excellent question, a question that our country has chosen to leave unanswered after September 11. As long as you have not entered what`s called the terminal control area, or the positive control area of American-controlled airports, you are still allowed to fly VFR, visual flight rules, without flying with a flight plan, without flying with positive air traffic control. And that is still allowed.

It is a terrible, terrible loophole. Chicago addressed this and actually closed an airport because it was too close to downtown. But it is still allowed and it can still be done legally.

GRACE: Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are investigating the crash of a Cirrus SR- 20, N number 929 Charlie Delta. The Cirrus SR-20 crashed into a high-rise building this afternoon. According to the FAA`s Web site, the aircraft has a registration pending to Mr. Cory Lidle.

The on-scene investigation is a fact-gathering exercise. We will be working with the emergency responders on scene, the Federal Aviation Administration, the aircraft and the engine manufacturer, when we arrive on scene. We are still gathering facts and we`re working with other authorities who have additional information.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And what you may not have heard yet is there have been serious problems with the Cirrus SR-20. Safety problems related to the plane have already figured into numerous lawsuits, some involving the sheer (ph) design of the plane, some mechanical issues. Sometimes, when all the evidence is gone, it`s blamed on pilot error.

Joining us tonight, an aviation expert and a former jet pilot, Arthur Wolk. Mr. Wolk, thank you for being with us. What are the problems you can identify with the Cirrus SR-20?

ARTHUR WOLK, AVIATION ATTORNEY, FORMER JET PILOT: Well, first, the airplane is a very high-performance airplane. It`s sometimes difficult to fly by inexperienced pilots. It lands fast, requires a lot of runway to take off and land. It has difficult stall characteristics. In other words, when it gets so slow that the wing doesn`t want to fly any more, sometimes it`s difficult to control and can wind up in a spin.

It actually has to have a parachute built into the airplane, called a ballistic recovery system, that the crew or the pilot can pull a cord and it actually jettisons a parachute that will lower the aircraft to the ground. That`s because the aircraft has stall spin characteristics that were unacceptable.

I have several lawsuits that I am currently handling against Cirrus on that model aircraft and its bigger brother, the SR-22, which has a larger- horsepower motor but is otherwise the same airplane. Sometimes the chute doesn`t go out when asked to go out. Sometimes the control is lost. Sometimes the electronic displays fail. There are a number of problems that have resulted in accidents.

GRACE: Arthur is with us, Arthur Wolk, aviation expert and former jet pilot. When you take a look at this, Arthur, it seems to me if the other casualty is a flight instructor, that suggests it is not pilot error, or is it?

WOLK: I agree with you. I think that it was very good practice for the owner to carry a flight instructor with him. He was a low-time guy, so he took a flight instructor. That`s a very important plus arguing against pilot error. And also, the facts of the accident make no sense in the context of pilot error.

GRACE: Well, it`s amazing to me that he was so close. As Mary Schiavo was just discussing, he`s right over the East River, apparently had just -- take a look at it, Arthur -- had just come over the 59th Street bridge. This is a heavily, heavily populated area, and on the Upper East Side, a lot of skyscrapers, a lot of hospitals. It is right by Sloan- Kettering, many other major, major skyscrapers.

Take a listen to this. This is what was said as fire rained down on New York City today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tell me what you thought about the debris coming down. Did you see that happening?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was a huge fireball, one big piece and some small.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All cascading down to the ground below. Obviously, a very scary time for you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I heard the loud crash, and then I turned the corner, there were flames coming out of the side of the building. And all of a sudden, about a minute later, debris from the side of the building fell down to the street. and then it was a cloud of black smoke and you couldn`t see anything else.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was just crossing the street, and I sort of heard what seemed to be like a flat tire or something, and so I started, like, looking around the street. Then I saw, like, this huge explosion, like, coming from, like, the building, and it sounded, like -- you know, like, as if it was a little plane, like a little thing. And then just, like, half of it fell.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Half of the plane, ma`am?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right. Like, half of whatever it was that crashed against the building fell, like, to the sidewalk, and then it was, like, flames and -- yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Tonight, out to the lawyers. Joining us out of New York, Doug Burns, veteran trial lawyer, and also Paul Henderson (ph), San Francisco deputy DA. Welcome, gentlemen. First to you, Doug Burns. We already know that there are multiple lawsuits regarding the Cirrus SR-20. So why is an amateur pilot flying over our city?

DOUG BURNS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, the problem, as pointed out by the aviation expert, is that it`s a high-performance aircraft, somewhat difficult to fly. He took every precaution, brought a flight instructor. So it`s really puzzling as to exactly what happened. I mean, in terms of any lawsuits, Nancy, obviously, it`s a three-part analysis -- the manufacturer of the aircraft manufacturer of the engines and then the manufacturer of what you call the avionics, the electronics.

GRACE: Back to Paul Henderson, San Francisco deputy DA. Of course, Paul, as Doug says, he`s correct, there are going to be multiple lawsuits. You`re going to get a lawsuit from everybody from the manufacturer of the Cirrus SR-20, to the pilot, to the instructor, Teterboro airport, where many amateur pilots have taken off. I believe JFK, Jr., took off from there. There`s going to be lawsuits out the wazoo.

But my question is, why isn`t there legislation as to who can fly in a heavily populated skyscraper city?

PAUL HENDERSON, SAN FRANCISCO DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: That`s a good point because I think this crash raises two really important public safety issues. One, how are planes like this able to fly without being as closely monitored, meaning they`re under the radar, they`re not in contact with the tower? And two, I believe this is going to raise the issue of, how are people being licensed to operate a plane like this?

This is a tragedy, but let`s keep in mind this is also an individual that had just received his license just last year.

GRACE: Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We investigate each accident as an individual event. We`re going to be looking at the circumstances of this accident to determine what happened in this case. This is a fairly new aircraft, a single engine. We have investigated other accidents involving this aircraft. That information is available on our Web site, as I mentioned. We are charged with investigating all civil aviation accidents in this country.

Shortly after the accident, we organized a "go team" to launch the accident in New York city. We already have two regional investigators from our Parsippany office who are on the scene. We have an investigator on the 40th floor right now. We will have 10 people who are going to be departing here from Washington, D.C., from our headquarters.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Let`s go out to Mike Brooks, joining us out of the Atlanta jurisdiction, reporting on the case all day long. Mike, you have flown. You`re a former firefighter. What do you see here?

MIKE BROOKS, FMR. D.C. POLICE, FMR. ASST. FIRE CHIEF, SERVED ON FBI TERRORISM TASK FORCE: Well, Nancy, I tell you, it`s really hard to tell what the cause of this is. But I can tell you the National Transportation Safety Board starting their initial investigation. They one person on the scene. And you know, inside, inside the apartment, apparently, is the engine. So they have that to take care of.

They`ll be working with investigators from NYPD to preserve that crime scene. They`ll also have investigators go out to Teterboro airport, to Signature (ph) Aviation, where this plane was kept, and they will check the maintenance records and check the maintenance history of this plane to find out exactly what caused this plane to crash into the building this afternoon.

Very early in this stage of the investigation, the "go team" will look at human factors, to power plants to, you know, the maintenance records and a lot of other things, to make sure that everything is in order. But they will definitely get to the bottom of this and find out exactly what caused this plane to go out of control and crash into the building this afternoon.

GRACE: Joining us now at the scene, CNN correspondent Mary Snow. Welcome to the show, Mary. What can you tell us?

MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Nancy, as Mike was just saying, what investigators are really looking at is a matter of 13 minutes. We`ve heard from Mayor Bloomberg today that the plane took off at 2:29. A 911 call was received at 2:42. And just what happened and why the plane went off the radar is the big question.

We talked to some eyewitnesses earlier today who said that -- one in particular said he saw the plane flying erratically. And then, of course, we`ve heard from so many eyewitnesses who saw the aftermath, the flames and explosion.

Nancy, we`re going to just pan up to the site of where the crash happened. It`s the 30th and 31st floor of the apartment building, where investigators are taking a look at it. The mayor also said there was a man and woman in a nearby apartment. Part of the plane, he said, went into their apartment. They were able to get out, escape. He said they were shaken but not hurt.

And parts of this plane are now being collected that went into the actual building itself, and of course, onto the street level -- Nancy.

GRACE: Joining us at the scene, Mary Snow, CNN correspondent. Mary, are you telling me these were the people that were in the apartments that burned up?

SNOW: They were -- no, on a nearby floor, but that parts of the plane had gone into their apartment. They were home at the time of this crash and they were able to get out. So they were on a nearby floor but not in that exact apartment.

GRACE: Mary, you just told us that passers-by, eyewitnesses, saw the plane driving erratically. What do you mean by erratically? Did it look as if it was doing acrobatics?

SNOW: We talked to one eyewitness who was a pilot and who reported seeing, in his description, the plane flying erratically. A lot of the eyewitnesses we spoke to only saw the aftermath, so it`s kind of hard to say 100 percent sure what exactly happened.

But the actual direction where the plane hit was kind of unusual because the plane, as we know, was going up the East River. The mayor had said it was sightseeing. And the plane hit the northern part of this building and not the part of the building facing the river. So why it had turned is a very big question that just can`t be answered right now.

GRACE: What I`m hearing is that the side of the building that took the impact is the north side of the building, while the plane had been driving down the East River, which would have been on the east side of the building. It would have had to have taken a left turn into the city and come back to hit the north side of the building, going north up the East River. Yes, no, Mary?

SNOW: Yes. It`s very unusual. The direction, obviously, is one of the big question marks that officials really can`t answer at this point. And you know, Mayor Bloomberg was asked about it earlier this evening and he said, really, it`s anybody`s guess what happened at that time. And in terms of the direction, we do know from the mayor that air traffic controllers lost it on the radar about 20 blocks south of where the plane crashed.

GRACE: So Mary, they were in touch with air traffic control?

SNOW: It was on a radar, not voice control.

GRACE: You are seeing a live shot just above CNN correspondent Mary Snow. This is a shot of the so-called Belaire building. It is a 50-story high-rise, a tower on East 72nd and the East River. This is the aftermath of a major crash, an amateur pilot plowing into the building, causing fiery debris to rain down on passers-by.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chaos. I was so scared. Let me tell you, I was so scared that I thought it was another terrorist attack.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I heard the loud crash, and then I turned the corner, there were flames coming out of the side of the building. And all of a sudden, about a minute later, debris from the side of the building fell down to the street. And then it was a cloud of black smoke and you couldn`t see anything else.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At that point, I thought it was some sort of a bomb that had gone off, some sort of explosive device. And so in this day and age, you can only think the worst.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Today, Manhattanites thoroughly afraid as they learn another plane crashes into a skyscraper here in Manhattan, in the Upper East Side, in the 70s.

Back out to Mary snow, CNN correspondent there on scene. Mary, what have they been able to determine now that the blaze is over?

SNOW: Well, now that the blaze is over, the investigators are going into the scene. And what the city officials are saying is that now it will be up to the National Transportation Safety Board to determine exactly the chain of events that led to this crash.

And one thing, though, I wanted to add, Nancy, in hearing the witnesses on the ground, one thing that was really striking for everybody here, obviously, it`s such a sensitive environment that so many people thought that it was 9/11 all over again. And people think so much differently than they did five years ago.

We talked to one eyewitness who said that perhaps she thought this was some kind of diversion for terrorists, that it was happening up here in this neighborhood on the Upper East Side, and perhaps it was kind of a plot for terrorists to hit downtown. So people automatically think these things. And of course, the scene right after this happened was the flames coming out of this building and an explosion. Everybody was on their cell phones. And it was very, very frightening for so many people.

GRACE: Out to George Davis joining us. He is the pilot of an Airbus A-320 and a former Navy pilot. Sir, thank you very much for being with us. What can you tell me about a Cirrus SR-20?

GEORGE DAVIS, AIRBUS PILOT: Well, it`s a very modern airplane, very new, recently released into production in about `98, `99, very high- performance. The avionics displays are state of the art. And it was the first of its kind with this ballistic recovery system that Mr. Wolk mentioned earlier. In fact, at the time, it was the only airplane to have such a mechanism.

And my only concern with this whole recovery system is that it actually could potentially end up being a distraction to pilots and they stop trying to fly the airplane in case of an emergency and start looking to this. I don`t -- of course, that`s just speculation. I`m not saying I think that`s what happened in this case. But it is definitely something that no other airplane that I`m aware of, at least at the time that it rolled out, had such a -- such a convenience.

GRACE: George, when you say recovery system, are you referring to the parachute that actually lifts the plane a little and lets it land gently? It lands the whole plane by parachute?

DAVIS: Yes, it`s only in the case of an emergency. And I`ve been reading some reports and I don`t know whether these have been confirmed or not by anyone on your panel, but apparently, someone from the aircraft radioed with a Mayday call and fuel trouble. And in that event, I believe it could have definitely been an engine failure, what we call flameout in aviation terms. And that could have been what happened. That could -- they could have been trying to get the airplane back. That`s maybe why they turned back south and hit the north side of the building.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just saw it and I turned back. I was running with the dog, and I turned back, and there was a huge fireball. And you know, I was just running on the street and screaming to everybody, Call police, call police, because that`s -- you know, what else you can do? I thought it was terrorism, but you know...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: A crash stunning the capital of the world, New York City, today, a skyscraper hit by an amateur pilot.

Out to former inspector general, U.S. Department of Transportation, Mary Schiavo. What stricter regulation could possibly have stopped this?

SCHIAVO: Well, actually, the regulation that we need to stop it is to require all flights in the United States to have a fully operational transponder, a flight plan, and in over-populated areas like New York City, that all flights be conducted through instrument flight rules or have a positive flight path and positive control.

And that debate has raged for years. When I was inspector general, there was outright almost rebellion by pilots who -- when they were just requested to have a transponder on board. And this is an issue that has plagued our government. They have been paralyzed on it even after 9/11, and it`s a long-standing problem.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Corey Lidle was a Major League pitcher for nine years. He was new to the New York Yankees, traded just two months ago from the Philadelphia Phillies. Playing ball wasn`t Lidle`s only passion. So was flying.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was adamant about the fact that he was going to do it, not only well, but safely. And he was very proud of the way he had handled himself in that process and was very proud of the way that he had handled himself in flying a plane.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Today, one such plane, a Cirrus SR-20 piloted by Lidle, crashed into a high-rise on Manhattan`s Upper East Side. It claimed the lives of Lidle and, we believe, the flight instructor, while raining down fiery debris on New Yorkers, evocative of 9/11, exactly five years, one month to the day.

Straight out to Thomas Roberts with Headline News. What can you tell me about the possibility of recovering a black box here or does this type of plane have one?

ROBERTS: Nancy, that`s a great question. This aircraft does not have any type of black box or a voice recorder, which is really pivotal in these types of investigations. What I`ve been hearing from aviation sources is that this is going to be figured out by the debris, by the collection of the debris, and piecing together exactly how this plane impacted with the building itself. That`s really going to help the NTSB figure out what went wrong in the skies after this flight really only in the air 14 minutes after taking off from the Teterboro Airport.

Also, Nancy, I think it`s important to pass long a lot of mention has gone to the fact of safety with this aircraft, the Cirrus SR-20. A lot of people in the aviation field saying that certain pilots, especially new ones, may have a false sense of security, because of all the bells and whistles that are provided on this aircraft, especially the parachute, which the tout on the Cirrus Web site as being ace in the hole for the person behind the wheel of the craft.

GRACE: I want to go back out to tonight`s g-men, as we take calls. First to Carol in Florida. Hi, Carol.

CALLER: Hi, how are you?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?

CALLER: First, I want to say my heart goes out to the families that were affected today. But my second comment is: How could this happen after everything we`ve been promised with national security?

GRACE: You know, that`s an excellent question. Back out to Arthur Wolk, aviation expert and former jet pilot. You know, Arthur, as other cities, major cities are clamping down on aviation over metropolitan areas, not so here in New York. And amazingly, we took the biggest hit on 9/11.

WOLK: Well, first of all, there have only been two impacts of airplanes in 70 years in New York City, a B-25 in 1942 and this airplane. You have to take 9/11 out, because that was a criminal act. So to come up with a whole bunch of new restrictions because of these two accidents in 70 years to me makes absolutely no sense. Thousands...

GRACE: I disagree, Arthur, because unlike a car crash, which is bad enough in itself, when you crash into a building, you could claim the lives of thousands.

WOLK: So what do we do, Nancy? We eliminate all the traffic that flies into La Guardia that goes over those buildings? Do we eliminate all the over-flights over New York and Philadelphia and Chicago every single day because an airliner with a couple of hundred thousand pounds of fuel crashes?

GRACE: I`ve got a question for you, Arthur. Are you telling me the sky`s not big enough, there`s not enough space in the sky to avoid New York City? Hello?

WOLK: I`m saying that there`s plenty of space in the sky, including New York City, and thousands of airplanes that fly there every single day, VFRs, small airplanes, and big airplanes, too, don`t collide into buildings. Now, this airplane obviously had a mechanical malfunction that caused it to crash into a building. And that can happen anywhere to any airplane.

GRACE: Interesting that you`re saying mechanical malfunction. Many agree with you.

To George Davis, a pilot of an Airbus A320, former Navy pilot. George, what would happen under mayday conditions in a plane like this?

DAVIS: Well, Nancy, there`s a lot going on. And, frankly, one of the busiest times you can ever be as a pilot is as an instructor, because you don`t have somebody sitting next to you that you can 100 percent count on. During the instructing that I did in the Navy, they were a liability, not an asset. And that`s just the nature of the beast. They`re up there counting on you.

So when things start -- on a normal day, you know, you`ve got your hands full. When things start going wrong and you have an emergency on the airplane, especially if it`s something as serious as a fuel problem or a potential flameout, you`ve got to fly that airplane. And if you start delegating responsibilities to this other pilot or pilot in training, you know, a lot can happen.

So there`s a lot that goes on. You`re talking. You`re trying to figure out. You`re trying to navigate. You`re trying to talk to air travel control, if, in fact, they actually were communicating with them. It depends on their altitude. If you`re flying really low over Manhattan, which you`re really not supposed to do, below 1,000 feet over a congested area like that, you don`t have to talk to anybody.

GRACE: Well, this was totally only up to the 38th floor, between 38 and 40. Joining us right now is a very special guest, Joe Benigno. He is the sports radio talk show host, WFAN New York.

Welcome, sir. I`m a very big fan of yours. What can you tell me about Lidle?

JOE BENIGNO, SPORTS RADIO TALK SHOW HOST, WFAN: Well, I`ll tell you - - how you doing, Nancy? I`ll tell you, you know, it`s really interesting. It`s almost been a surreal day. You know, you talked about the possibility of another terror attack, and then to find out it was Corey Lidle. And he`s been in the news a lot, because he was traded from the Yankees -- to the Yankees from Philadelphia, you know, at the trading deadline at the end of July and had a lot of things to say about his teammates in Philadelphia when he left.

And just after the Yankees were eliminated a couple days ago by the Tigers, he had things to say again about Torre and the Yankees, as well. And to see this happen to him now -- he was just interviewed yesterday on our station by Mike and the Mad Dog in the afternoon. He actually had called them in because one of our hosts, Chris Russo, had really, you know, went after him pretty good. And I guess Corey must have found out from a friend of his, "Hey, you know, these guys are talking about you, they`re getting on you." He called in. And just very surreal that everything the way it went down and that it would be Corey Lidle. It`s unbelievable, and what a tragedy.

GRACE: With us, Joe Benigno, sports radio talk show host with WFAN New York. Question, Joe: Were you aware Lidle was a pilot?

BENIGNO: The only thing I knew about it, honestly, Nancy, was one of his teammates was in Philadelphia -- Arthur Rhodes had commented after Lidle had left and had taken some shots at his Philadelphia teammates, that Corey was really only interested in flying.

GRACE: Hmm. Well, after Munson`s accident, his air accident, did the Yankees make any attempt to stop players from flying planes?

BENIGNO: Well, I mean, obviously not. You know, that`s a great question. You know, you go back to 1979 with Thurman Munson, you know, was tragically killed the same way, you know, flying his plane. I think that was also out of Teterboro, interestingly enough.

But, yes, you would think that there would be something along those lines and maybe all major leagues, similar to a Ben Roethlisberger riding his motorcycle and almost, you know, doing big damage to himself, could have killed his career, killed himself, you would think that all these professional teams would have something in these guys` contracts that you couldn`t do something that, you know, really could endanger you seriously in the off-season.

GRACE: You mean kind of like a stupidity clause, one of those?

BENIGNO: Yes. I mean, you know, I guess...

GRACE: This is crazy. I mean, don`t move. With me, Joe Benigno, sports radio talk show host with WFAN-New York.

I want to go back to Arthur Wolk, aviation expert. What type of hours do you have to have under your belt to, say, for instance, fly over New York City at about the level of the 38th floor of a building?

WOLK: Well, first of all, you assume that he was flying at the 38th floor of the building. They hit the building at the 38th floor. But if they were flying at 1,100 feet and had an engine failure, they`d be at the 38th floor in just a few seconds.

GRACE: Good point.

WOLK: However, I will tell you that you could have a private pilot`s certificate, which you could get in as little as 40 hours of flying, but most people take about 65. But this man had a flight instructor with him. So he not only was a licensed private pilot -- he could have flown over there himself -- but he also had a flight instructor with him for extra safety. That tells me this is not a pilot error accident, this is a mechanical failure accident.

And I think there`s one other very important point: The National Transportation Safety Board has invited the engine manufacturer and the aircraft manufacturer to be parties to this investigation.

GRACE: Tonight, many people mourning, as our show is, those who lost their lives today over Manhattan. Back to Joe Benigno, sports radio talk show host. I know he was taking a lot of heat, but is there any indication that this is anything other than an accident, Joe?

BENIGNO: Not that I know of, Nancy. I mean, it doesn`t seem to be. I mean, he was up, I guess, with his flight instructor. And, you know, you know the way this guy loved to fly. I mean, I don`t see any indication at all that this was just not a flat-out accident that occurred.

GRACE: I mean, Joe, this is a guy that had everything to live for, a beautiful wife, a happy family. I mean, to play professional baseball, you got to be willing to take the heat. We know that; he knew that. But he had everything before him, the world at his feet.

BENIGNO: Yes. Well, I mean...

GRACE: Tell me about his wife and children.

BENIGNO: Yes, I understand. You know, obviously, flying was his passion, you know? And I don`t think this was anything but that though. I think this just was a horrid accident, Nancy. I don`t think it was anything beside that.

GRACE: Again, our sympathies and our prayers out to those that lost their lives today, as fire rains down over Manhattan.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Cirrus SR-20 crashed into a high-rise building this afternoon. The aircraft has a registration pending to Mr. Corey Lidle.

MICHAEL BLOOMBERG, MAYOR OF NEW YORK CITY: In this day and age, obviously everybody is very sensitive when they hear something like a plane crashing into a building.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We just felt the vibration.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... turned back, it was a huge fireball. I was just running in the street and screaming to everybody, "Call police, call police!"

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I heard the loud crash, and then I turned the corner. There were flames coming out of the side of the building.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was almost like a mushroom-type cloud of fire, and instantly four apartments had burst in flames.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Half of whatever it was that crashed against the building fell like to the sidewalk.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I was so scared, let me tell you. I was so scared that I thought it was another terrorist attack.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Multiple units, fire department, ambulances, police, converging in the Upper East Side, as fire rains down on Manhattan today. Shock at the thought another amateur pilot could fly into a high-rise. And now, we are learning that the Cirrus SR-20 has been the subject of multiple safety problem lawsuits. Could this have been avoided?

Let`s go straight out to the g-men joining us tonight to take some calls. Joanie in New York. Hi, Joanie.

CALLER: I was just wondering -- I know I`m a baseball fan myself. And it seems to be that the Yankees and baseball in general are almost like a very close-knit family. Has there been any reaction from them?

GRACE: You know, before I go to the g-men, let me go back to Joe Benigno on that reaction from the Yankees, Joe.

BENIGNO: Yes, as far as what now, Nancy?

GRACE: As far as the death.

BENIGNO: Oh, well, I mean, you know, Yankees -- I mean, I saw Brian Cashman earlier today on TV, and you could see that he just was devastated. And, you know, to have Steinbrenner -- you know, he came out with a statement. The Yankees are very close.

That`s got to be devastating. You know, you`re with somebody like that, 25 men and you guys on the roster and flying -- you know, and going all over together every day, 162 games a year. I know he was only there half the season. It`s got to be devastating. It`s like family, no doubt.

GRACE: And tonight, Corey Lidle leaving behind a 6-year-old little boy, Christopher, and a grieving widow, Melanie. Baseball fans and New Yorkers alike mourn the death of this star pitcher, Corey Lidle.

Now back to our g-men and back to you, Joe Benigno. Please keep talking. You`ve got to give me something to live for, friend.

To the g-men, let`s talk about what the NTSB, the National Transportation Safety Board, is going to do at this juncture. To you first, Mike Brooks.

BROOKS: The NTSB is going to start their preliminary investigation. They already have one investigator there on the scene in the building. They also have 10 others from the go team coming up from Washington, D.C. They`re probably already there. They`re going to take a look at human factors; they`re going to take a look at all the evidence.

Apparently, half of the plane fell to the ground. It`s actually made of a composite, so there wasn`t a whole lot of metal except for the engine, some other parts. But they`ll preserve that whole area tonight, Nancy, as a crime scene and then also go out and look for maintenance records, but very early in the investigation.

GRACE: You are seeing a live shot now as fire investigators -- there you can see one of New York`s finest there with his fire hat. There you go. We`re speeding up that video for you to catch up. New York finest and bravest on the scene tonight, investigating.

To Don Clark, former head of the FBI Houston bureau, with no black box, how much will we ever know?

DON CLARK, FORMER HEAD OF FBI HOUSTON BUREAU: Well, it`s going to be a little bit difficult, Nancy. But the NTSB, they`re certainly going to be there. But all of these task forces -- and I think, when you have a tragedy like this, it really highlights the necessity for task forces. And they`ve really been developed very well, even since I was in New York, because they`re all going to get together.

Recall a flight about 12 years ago, I think it was TWA 800 that blew up over the ocean. Every piece of that aircraft will be put together in some hangar some place until they really work on it and try to decide what actually took place. So, yes, the black box would really help, but they can do it to a large degree without it.

GRACE: And joining us, another g-man, all three of these guys respected within the FBI. Steve Rogers, former member of the FBI joint terrorism task force. To you, Steve Rogers, the joint terrorism task force converged on the scene today. What did they do that`s any different from the NTSB?

STEVEN ROGERS, FORMER FBI AGENT: Well, since 9/11, Nancy, there would always be a concern that, if indeed it had terrorist nexus to it, that there would be biological weapons, that there would actually be a chemical aboard this aircraft. Thank God that wasn`t the case.

But, Nancy, you said something very significant earlier. And in all due respect to Arthur, Arthur is dead wrong about one issue. Indeed, there were two accidents, two accidents over a period of a number of years. But regarding no-fly zones, regarding restrictions, I could tell you that law enforcement agencies across the country have continuously asked the FAA to restrict certain areas of this country where there can be potential targets.

So, yes, you know what? It should be done. Arthur says it can`t be done. Well, it can`t be done because of money. That`s the bottom line. But if we want to save lives, we`re going to have to re-look at these patterns, keep these aircraft out of highly populated areas and where there may be high-interest targets for terrorists.

GRACE: Response, Arthur?

WOLK: (OFF-MIKE) is that you have commercial airports in and around New York City with thousands of airplanes in and out there every day. You would have to shut all the airspace down. It makes absolutely no sense. The way you keep terrorism out of the country is to keep the terrorists out of the country.

GRACE: Well, Arthur, they managed to do it over Chicago, so I don`t know what your factual impossibility is. I`m going to give you a moment to come up with it, and I have faith in you. I know you will.

WOLK: Well, it`s not true. Airplanes fly over Chicago all the time.

ROGERS: Nancy, one of the points -- let`s concede the commercial airliners. Let`s talk about these little aircraft. One of the points I`m trying to make is, if we know, if we see through our analysis of possible targets, we call the FAA and say, "Look, you`ve got to restrict this area because there may be a high-interest target," restrict it. What`s wrong with that?

GRACE: To psychotherapist Dr. Mark Hillman, Mark, with all of the focus on September 11, in my mind this completely deflates the American citizens. It seems as if we`re getting nowhere.

MARK HILLMAN, CLINICAL PSYCHOTHERAPIST: You`re absolutely correct. As a therapist, you take a code of ethics and it says, "Do no harm." And I think Mayor Bloomberg needs to step up at this point in time to protect. And I agree with Steve Rogers and Arthur saying discount 9/11. I`ll bet you every single Manhattan person said, "A plane hit a high rise? We`re under attack again."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: You are seeing footage from today, an amateur pilot plowing into a high-rise here in Manhattan, claiming the lives of two. Fire raining down on passersby, fiery debris. The miracle: only the pilot and possibly the flight instructor lost their live.

Back to psychotherapist Mark Hillman. Mark, you were addressing the fact that with all the precautions we thought were being taken after 9/11, apparently that`s simply not true.

HILLMAN: You`re absolutely correct. And you said at the top of the show about, how do we allow this to happen? Psychologically, there are 8.5, 9 million egos in Manhattan. And when you hear a plane hits a building, whether it`s a small plane like today in the tragedy, and Arthur Wolk wants to discount from 1943, you cannot psychologically discount how 9/11 changed everybody`s psyche in New York and around the world.

And so, as a therapist, you take an oath: Do no harm. And I hope that Mayor Bloomberg and the proper authorities who can make those hard, yet responsible, decisions can live by that edict of "do no harm" and change those flight patterns. And you`re absolutely correct, Nancy: Get them out of Manhattan.

GRACE: Joining us again, our lawyers, Paul Henderson, Doug Burns. Very quickly, Paul Henderson, Mike Brooks tells me in my ear that also D.C. -- and I now recall this -- D.C. has the same flight restrictions over it. We know that Chicago has them. Is there any way that we can anticipate a suit against the city for allowing planes to fly over?

HENDERSON: I think, also, instead of anticipating a suit against the city, what you`ll see is maybe a suit attaching the airports that are regulating these small planes or the airports specifically that don`t regulate these small planes. Because what`s going to happen is there`s going to be a public reaction where people are going to want to have some sort of increased legislation or some sort of increased monitoring with the planes that are flying over big cities.

GRACE: Right. Agree or disagree, Doug?

BURNS: Yes, you have to draw the distinction between commercial airliners -- that`s what these people are saying -- versus these smaller planes. Commercial airliners are going to fly over New York into La Guardia, to sum it all up, but they should change the rules with respect to these small aircraft, Nancy.

GRACE: Thank you, gentlemen. And congratulations to you, Doug Burns, on your wedding.

I`m Nancy Grace signing off for tonight. Thank you to our guests, but our biggest thank you, to you, for being with us. I`ll see you right here tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

END