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NTSB Launches Probe Into Small Plane Crash in Manhattan; U.S. Floats Draft Resolution for North Korea Sanctions; North Korea Threat

Aired October 12, 2006 - 13:59   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: The flight ended suddenly, horrifically and mysteriously. Here's what we know about yesterday's crash of a single-engine plane into a Manhattan high-rise.
One of the victims was Tyler Stanger. He's the flight instructor and California flight school owner who was sitting next to New York Yankees pitcher Cory Lidle. The mystery is why they veered off course and slammed into a high-rise condo tower.

The resulting fire raged almost two hours. Emergency crews say the plane's engine and propeller are still inside an apartment on the 40th floor of the Belaire, but most of the building's occupants are being allowed back in today.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: First responders, federal experts and everyone in between are in and around the crash site, and so is CNN's Allan Chernoff.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALLAN CHERNOFF, CNN SR. CORRESPONDENT: As we've been looking up at the crash scene today, every once in a while we've seen someone walking around one of the apartments that was burned out. These are investigators from the NTSB, as well as evidence response team members of the FBI and the New York Police Department's crime scene unit.

They are going through the debris, the process they are taking to try to figure out what exactly caused the crash. It's a real challenge, because there was no contact at all with the air traffic control.

Now, in this region of New York City, planes are only permitted to fly actually over the rivers surrounding the island of Manhattan, not over Manhattan itself. The East River is just a few hundred feet away from here, and what may have happened is, as the -- as the plane was trying to make a turn above the East River, it may not have been able to make a tight enough turn.

Our colleague, Miles O'Brien, who owns a similar plane and flies it, looked up and speculated. He said, "Look at that large, black building there." He thinks what may have happened is that the plane was trying to make the turn above the East River, decided to turn around the black building, and then suddenly, within seconds, was confronted with the Belaire condominium, and smashed right into it.

For New Yorkers looking up at that today, it is a reminder of their worst fears.

MARLA KAUFMAN, PLANE CRASH WITNESS: I saw smoke. You heard this loud noise first. It was a very loud noise. And I saw smoke, and then I saw this huge ball of flames shoot out from the building and go to the ground.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right.

KAUFMAN: And I immediately said, "Was that a body?" I didn't know what it was. And I was trying to clear the chairs where I was to look down and look down at the ground and see what was there. And then I immediately thought of terrorism.

CHERNOFF: Of course, we quickly learned it was not at all a case of terrorism. Two people were killed in the crash, Yankees pitcher Cory Lidle and his flight instructor.

Allan Chernoff, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Bits and pieces, data and sheer determination. Investigators will need all of to it get to the bottom of yesterday's tragedy.

CNN's Jeanne Meserve reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice over): What was the cause? The National Transportation Safety Board is at the scene trying to find out.

DEBORAH HERSMAN, NTSB BOARD MEMBER: The on-scene investigation is a facts-gathering exercise. We will be working with the emergency responders on scene, the Federal Aviation Administration, the aircraft, and the engine manufacturer when we arrive on scene.

MESERVE: Cirrus SR-20s have been involved in five fatal crashes, killing 12 people in the last five years. The plane that crashed in New York was not required to have a flight data or voice recorder, putting investigators at a disadvantage. But because it was made recently it may, nonetheless, yield important clues.

BOB FRANCIS, FMR. NTSB VICE CHAIRMAN: This is a new airplane -- or a fairly new airplane. It's got very sophisticated avionics, and it may well be that the NTSB will be able to pull some data out of those avionics with computer enhancement, et cetera.

MESERVE: As in other crashes, on-scene investigators will examine pieces of the aircraft, how it made impact, even where the bodies were found. They will visit the Teterboro Airport where the plane departed from and elsewhere to gather information about the aircraft's maintenance records, the pilot's experience, health, and even his attitude. They will look at air traffic control and radar tapes. PHIL BOYER, AIRCRAFT OWNERS & PILOTS ASSN.: All of the radar blips that an airplane would put out of that caliber are saved, and we'll be able to track the exact flight of that airplane to probably some point where it might have gone off the radar, let's say, at 400 or 500 feet in altitude.

MESERVE: In this crash investigators will also ask questions about the Cirrus parachute system which can lower the entire aircraft safely to the ground, whether or not it was deployed and why.

(on camera): The NTSB may put out factual information very quickly, but their analysis will take much longer. Experts say it could take a year or more for the NTSB to announce a probable cause of the crash.

Jeanne Meserve, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Delicate diplomacy. The U.S. is trying to win approval for a plan revised yet again to punish North Korea.

Our senior U.N. correspondent, Richard Roth, is tracking developments at the United Nations.

Richard, what are you hearing?

RICHARD ROTH, CNN SR. U.N. CORRESPONDENT: Don, the United States is pushing hard for a vote on Friday, but China and Russia remain reluctant. We've seen this scenario before with any big power showdowns. The United States and Japan, though, think that when a country detonates some type of nuclear device, there should be a quick, forceful, rapid response from members of the Security Council.

Ambassador John Bolton of the United States says North Korea should see what's coming and accept the resolution and refrain from any type of testing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN BOLTON, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: The fact is, if North Korea were to go back to the six-party talks and comply with the September 2005 declaration that they agreed to, leading to the complete, verifiable and irreversible dismantlement of their nuclear program, they two have the possibility of a very different relationship with us and with much of the rest of the world. So the carrots have been there in a sense of a -- for North Korea of the possibility of ending its isolation, ending the terrible impoverishment of its people. It's the leadership of North Korea that can't find -- can't seem to find the carrots that are out there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROTH: Ambassador Bolton remains frustrated that China and other countries are still concerned that so-called Chapter 7 measures, referring to the U.N. charter in this resolution, might open the door for the use of military force, which the U.S. says that is not going to happen. But China still has its concerns.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LIU JIANCHAO, CHINA FOREIGN MINISTRY SPOKESMAN (through translator): Since the very beginning of the nuclear issue on the Korean Peninsula, we believe that the U.S. and North Korea are principal parties in this issue. If the two parties can strengthen their dialogue and consultation on certain occasions, this will strengthen their understanding and mutual trust, and they will be able to narrow down their differences. This would play a positive role.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROTH: So will there be a vote on Friday? The U.S. would like it. It's -- there will be more consultations later in the day between the big powers and Japan to try to work over the differences. There are sanctioning measures in this resolution that would punish North Korea, various embargoes, though some of the language has been watered down.

Back to you, Don.

LEMON: And after such differences, how do members of the Security Council agree on the resolutions if they have the differences, as I said?

ROTH: Well, there is the horse trading. Russia seems angry that the U.S. and others are not going along with the resolution Russia wants on the country of Georgia. There is a senior Chinese official, a former foreign minister who has met with President Bush today and others. He'll also be going to Moscow.

Sometimes they usually work this out, and countries can always abstain and still, in effect, feel that it was a negative vote, though the U.S. gets its way and so does Japan. But it's not every day there's some type of nuclear test of some kind, many think the council's credibility is really at stake here.

LEMON: All right. Richard Roth at the U.N.

Thank you, sir.

PHILLIPS: The talk about sanctions started just a few days ago when North Korea claimed to have conducted a nuclear test.

Pentagon Correspondent Barbara Starr has been following that angle -- Barbara.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kyra, the latest word is now that the U.S. intelligence community hopes to know within the next 24 hours the final results of the sampling of the air data that they collected, but still no one can be sure. Did North Korea really did detonate a nuclear device?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) STARR (voice over): Three days after North Korea said it detonated its first nuclear device under ground, the U.S. intelligence community doesn't know if it's true.

DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: It's unlikely we will know everything, because it is a closed society. And it is absent certain kinds of intelligence. It's impossible to know of certain knowledge, certain things that take place in a closed society.

STARR: A U.S. official with access to classified information tells CNN, "The bottom line is we cannot confirm at this point it was a nuclear test."

The working assumption is it was a nuke. But with billions of dollars in spy planes, satellites and sensors on the hunt, why doesn't the U.S. know for sure? Did Kim Jong-il fool the United States?

JOHN PIKE, GLOBALSECURITY.ORG: I think the one crucial piece of evidence that they are looking for sounds like it simply isn't there. The smoking gun that they would have been looking for would have been radioactivity.

STARR: The underground test may have been so deep that radiological sensors will not pick up any positive readings. Intelligence analysts also tell CNN that the North Koreans may have deliberately buried bomb in a way that would muffle the seismic shock wave, making it hard to verify if it's nuclear and how big the blast really was.

Pyongyang wanted to keep spy planes and satellites from seeing what was going on. Preparations were made at several sites. A senior U.S. military commander confirmed to CNN that the only knowledge the test was about to happen came from China.

The intelligence community is now analyzing pictures of the site to see if there is a crater. The tentative assessment? The North Koreans had a small test that simply didn't work too well.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

STARR: And Kyra, the world now is watching to see if North Korea conducts a second larger test, trying to once and for all convince everyone that they do have a nuclear capability. But perhaps the only question now is, will the U.S. intelligence community figure out what happened in that first test before a second test happens -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: I know air samples were made. Are those still due tomorrow? And can we indeed find out through those tests if this was a nuke test or not?

STARR: You put your finger on it, Kyra. That's exactly what everyone is waiting for, to see the results of the air sampling data.

Now, if it does show radioactivity, that would be a pretty definitive indicator that it was a nuclear device. But let's say those sensors show no radioactivity. Well, that will be inconclusive, the experts say, because the test was apparently so small, with such a low yield, as they call it, the sensors simply may not pick up any radioactivity in the air. And the North Koreans are claiming that they sealed up their test so well underground that no radioactivity escaped.

So, still, the jury's going to be out.

PHILLIPS: Barbara Starr at the Pentagon.

Thanks.

LEMON: Let's go to the newsroom now. CNN's Carol Lin has a developing story.

Gerald Ford was in the hospital in August. Now more tests?

CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: That's right. He's been hospitalized, and we have a statement from his chief of staff and his executive assistant.

Penny Circle released this statement a short time ago saying that, "President Gerald Ford has been admitted to Eisenhower Medical Center in Rancho Mirage, California, for medical tests. He is doing well. Updates will be provided at a later date."

You know, the 93-year-old former president has had some health problems recently. He's been hospitalized about four times, four different times. Just this past year, he had a pacemaker installed. He had angioplasty to clear his -- the arteries around his heart.

He's been in frail condition, complaining of shortness of breath, even as he was out on the golf course. So, Don, this 93-year-old former president leading a very active life, but once again back in the hospital for medical tests. They are not saying or disclosing the nature of these tests.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Carol, I'm reading some of the same wires that you were reading. Five years ago, it said he suffered two small strokes, spent about a week in the hospital, but after that he was fine. And now this.

I want to ask you about another developing story that you talked about just a little bit ago -- New Mexico school lockdown?

LIN: That's right. Albuquerque, New Mexico, it turns out, Don, after police thoroughly searched around the James Monroe Middle School in Albuquerque, they did not find this man who was described as being dressed in black and armed with a knife. A young female student was coming out of a restroom when she says that she was approached by this man who tried to reach out for her.

She managed to get away, got back to her class, reported seeing this man to her teacher. And as a precaution, they locked down the school, which simply meant that the students had to stay inside the classroom while Albuquerque police searched the perimeter.

They were -- as you saw in the earlier video, they were up on the rooftops. But they had not -- they had not found anyone.

So the all-clear has been given to this middle school, as well as two other elementary schools in the nearby area that also they kept the students inside the classroom in a lockdown situation while they searched the area for this man. But they haven't found him.

LEMON: All right. Carol Lin, thank you very much.

PHILLIPS: Straight ahead, joining the ranks of Osama bin Laden in more ways than one. Why an American-born Muslim is now on the FBI's most wanted list.

We're back in the NEWSROOM right after this.

LEMON: Erased from the landscape. The site of the school massacre turned to rubble, and soon into a peaceful pasture.

Details coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Yes, this just in. It may be welcoming news to some, but not so welcoming news to others.

When you get an alert, Susan Lisovicz, on the AP wire saying that the housing market is slowing, you know it's a big deal.

(STOCK MARKET REPORT)

PHILLIPS: It was chillingly familiar, a plane hit the New York City high-rise five years and one month after 9/11. What does yesterday's tragic accident in Manhattan tell us about homeland security today? Just ahead, we'll ask a former FBI investigator.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: So it was about this time yesterday when Cory Lidle and Tyler Stanger began their ill-fated flight. When their plane plowed into a New York high-rise just a few minutes later, it invited grim comparisons to 9/11.

Pat D'Amuro was in charge of the FBI's investigation into the 9/11 attacks. He's now a security consultant and joins us live from New York.

I remember hearing the producer in my ear telling me that they got the word, Pat. When you first heard the news of a plane in a building in New York, did you shudder?

PAT D'AMURO, FMR. ASST. DIRECTOR, FBI, NEW YORK: Well, of course. You know, trying to -- trying to hear if it was a large aircraft, small aircraft. When I heard it was a small aircraft, that does change things somewhat. If this were an al Qaeda attack, there would have more than likely been explosives on the aircraft. Not that small aircraft aren't a threat. They very well can be used as devises to conduct terrorism events.

PHILLIPS: And we saw that happen when we learned more about the 9/11 hijackers, the fact that they were going to these smaller schools, getting these private flight instructors. They were able to get up in these planes on their own.

How is security at these smaller airports right now? Obviously people knew Cory. He's a big-time baseball player. They probably didn't have to worry about checking his bags or checking him or his aircraft. But what if that pilot wasn't Cory?

D'AMURO: Well, exactly. One of the things that we initiated when I was at FBI headquarters was to send out all the joint terrorism task forces across the country to identify all the small airports in the country, and the aircraft that's flying in there.

Now, I can't tell you if they've continued operations whereby anybody flying a small aircraft would have a name checked with the terrorism watch list. That's something that I hope the bureau and other agencies have followed up on, but I can't tell you if that's being done today, because there are so many small aircraft and small aircraft flights. They are increasing every day.

PHILLIPS: So that's still of concern to you...

D'AMURO: Yes.

PHILLIPS: ... who can get on those airplanes and who can fly out of small airports?

D'AMURO: Absolutely. One of the first things they would have been looking for yesterday is, who is this -- this plane registered to? Who is the pilot of this aircraft? Because that's going to give you some sense, as it did yesterday, I'm sure, whether or not this was a terrorism event.

And that's the first piece of information you want to get out to the public, because if it were a terrorism event, there more than likely could be another event to follow, as opposed to an accident where they don't have to alert and put these caps over all the other cities.

PHILLIPS: Now, Pat, the mayor came forward and said, hey, we responded quickly. We were there, 160-plus units on the scene, working it, we were fast. We've learned a lot since 9/11. But then we kept having miscommunication between -- the fire department said one thing, the FAA said one thing.

The FAA was saying it was an aircraft. The FDNY kept saying, no, it's a helicopter.

What did that tell you about the communications? Is it there? Are there still gaps?

D'AMURO: Well, I can tell you this, that the number of large events that I've been involved in when I was with the FBI, there is also misinformation. You will always have that type of situation.

One of the problems, yes, is the communications between the inner agencies. There is still not one channel that all federal, state and local first responders can -- can monitor in a particular event like this. And it's something that is being looked at, but it's taking a little too long to get this to the field, where they need it.

PHILLIPS: How often do emergency responders practice for something like this? How often do they do the drills? Have they proved effective?

D'AMURO: Kyra, training like this has been going on in New York City ever since I've been involved with the FBI here. In the Giuliani administration they began the implementation of the Office of Emergency Management that actually began writing the protocols as to how federal, state and local agencies are going to respond to any emergency situation like this. So it's been going on here for some time, practice situations like this are occurring all the time.

I think the city did a very good job in the time they took to respond to this and getting it under control. And then getting the information to the public.

PHILLIPS: Pat D'Amuro, appreciate it.

D'AMURO: Thank you.

PHILLIPS: Later in the CNN NEWSROOM we're going to speak with author and Belaire building resident Carol Higgins-Clark (ph) about returning to the scene of the crash. That's in our next hour, right here on CNN.

LEMON: The Mark Foley page scandal and potentially pivotal testimony.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good morning.

KIRK FORDHAM, FMR. CHIEF OF STAFF TO REP. FOLEY: I've got to help my contractor here real quick.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How are you, sir?

FORDHAM: Doing well. How are you all?

Again, I'm going to wait and talk to the Ethics Committee today. They asked me to keep my testimony confidential for now.

DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Do you plan on talking to the press after you meet with the committee?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Mark Foley's former chief of staff ready to talk to a congressional committee.

A live report from Capitol Hill coming up in the NEWSROOM.

PHILLIPS: A team's loss, a family's grief. We're going to hear from the twin brother of New York Yankees pitcher Cory Lidle.

That's ahead from the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VALERIE MORRIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Many Americans are drowning in debt. Getting out can be a daunting task. So, some ways to begin gaining control of your finances?

First, leave your credit cards at home. Have a cash allowance each week, and when that's gone, so is the spending.

Next, negotiate lower rates on high-interest cards. Call the company, explain your plan to take your business elsewhere unless they drop the rate.

Then, consider transferring balances to low-interest or zero- interest cards. But remember, there's almost always a window for when those promotional rates end, because the interest rate can then jump to double digits.

For more ideas, pick up "Money" magazine or online at cnnmoney.com.

I'm Valerie Morris.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Police, firefighters, ambulances, all converged on East 72nd and York Avenue, and they had plenty to do. A four-alarm fire was roaring on the Belaire building's 40th floor. How many people were killed or hurt? Nobody knew. And many made an understandable mistake, believing the city was under attack. New York's mayor credits his first responders for keeping a chaotic scene under control.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR MICHAEL BLOOMBERG, NEW YORK: It went perfectly according to plan. Two proud agencies with great traditions and equipment and training, working side by side. That's what the public has a right to expect, and that's exactly what these agencies do. The Office of Emergency Management has run drill after drill after drill, and has sat with both to make sure that when we have to work together, we know what each person's and each agency's responsibility is. And they did exactly what they were supposed to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Well, the 160 firefighters from 39 units swarmed the scene of that crash.

LEMON: We now know the names of both men killed in yesterday's crash. The owner of the plane is one of them, New York Yankee's pitcher Cory Lidle. Now, we don't know whether he was flying the plane at the time. In the other seat, Lidle's flight instructor, today identified as Tyler Stanger. Stanger told the "New York Times" last month that Cory Lidle was, quote, "probably my best student. He learned very quickly and had a lot of desire."

Well, the New York Yankees know what it's like to lose a player in the crash, but that doesn't make the pain of losing Cory Lidle any less.

Here's CNN's Jason Carroll.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Cory Lidle spent most of nine seasons in the Minor Leagues, always hoping to make it in the Majors. He did. He pitched for seven teams, most recently as a starter for the New York Yankees.

But his twin brother says flying was his newest passion. Lidle got his pilot's license last February.

LIDLE: He loved to fly. There is -- he didn't hide that. He loved to learn about how the airplanes worked.

CARROLL: It was a shock to Lidle's family and teammates that it was his single-engine aircraft, a Cirrus SR20, that crashed into this Manhattan apartment building.

BRIAN CASHMAN, YANKEES GENERAL MANAGER: And we're incredibly saddened by this news today. It's a shock. And I ask everybody to keep their prayers for his family.

CARROLL: Lidle had logged 400 hours of flight time and recently told "The New York Times" how safe he felt in the air, saying "The whole plane has a parachute on it. Ninety-nine percent of pilots that go up never have engine failure and the one percent that do usually landed."

Lidle's fans were stunned by the crash.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's been a terrible year and the way to end it, this is even worse. I mean this puts baseball into perspective. Baseball is a game and this is real life.

CARROLL: This is not the Yankees' first aviation tragedy. In 1979, Yankee catcher Thurman Munson was killed as he practiced taking off and landing a plane. Yankees first baseman, Jason Giambi, who played baseball with Lidle in high school as well, said he was devastated by his teammate's death.

Lidle, just 34 years old, leaves behind his wife, Melanie, and his 6-year-old son, Christopher.

Jason Carroll, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Yes, very sad. And our I-reporters jumped into action. They sent us pictures, videos, from every angle.

Carol Lin has that for us -- Carol.

LIN: We have journalists everywhere. You know, it takes a camera, it takes an eye and it takes quick action. And we want to thank the viewers for sending these picture.

This one, for example, Don. This was by Dean Collins, and it shows the debris on the ground in front of the building, where the plane crashed. And Dean actually just lives across the street, and he says he heard the explosion and then he just started taking pictures, working on his instinct.

And then Sourabh Banerjee also heard the explosion from his apartment on Roosevelt Island. Now, he shot the first I-report video of the flames -- look at this footage -- shooting out of the building.

And there was also another angle on the fire. This was shot by David Rose. He snapped this street-level picture. Now, David says at first people feared it was a terrorist attack and some were saying that this was 10/11, versus 9/11.

Now, emergency responders also filled the streets outside of Stephanie Garbarino's apartment. She thought that this would be an interesting take on this story. This was something you don't necessarily always see, as people are focused on the flames. This is the emergency response.

Police also patrolling in boats on the East River. We have a retired police officer, Steven Malecki, who says that he always carries a camera. And take a look at that. You just look very closely at that high-rise building and you see the smoke and the charred sides of the building. He was driving fairly close to the accident scene.

Now, we want to let you know if you've got photos or videos like these, all you have to do is go to CNN/ireport. You can send us what you've got and therefore join the most powerful news team in the world. I want to thank all of our I-reporters out there who contributed to our coverage. You really added to it, giving it texture and a lot of drama on the scene -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Carol, thanks. Well, joining the ranks of Osama bin Laden in more than ways than one, Why an American-born Muslim is on the FBI's most wanted list. We're back in the NEWSROOM right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, there's a new man on the FBI's most wanted terrorist list. As you heard yesterday in the NEWSROOM, Feds in California got a treason indictment against 28-year-old Adam Gadahn, the first treason charge against any American in 50 years. Gadahn, who goes by the name Azzam, "the American," in a number of al Qaeda video clips, could face the death penalty if convicted. But first he's got to be caught and tried. There's a $1 million bounty for his capture, and he's believed to be in Pakistan.

How did an all-American boy become an un-American threat? Our Ted Rowlands looks at Gadahn's life.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ADAM GADAHN, AL QAEDA SPOKESMAN: All the brothers who took part in the raids on America were dedicated, strong-willed, highly- motivated individuals.

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Azzam the American, now an al Qaeda spokesman, used to be a long-haired California teenager. Today he's a mouthpiece for Osama bin Laden, predicting death and destruction for the country he grew up in.

A. GADAHN: Because today could be your last day.

ROWLANDS: His real name is Adam Gadahn. He's delivered three recently released videotaped messages for al Qaeda. He speaks in perfect English but occasionally slips into Arabic. Gadahn, now 28 years old, grew up on this small goat farm in Southern California. As a teenager, according to family members, he was obsessed with heavy metal rock music, until he stumbled across Islam at this Orange County mosque.

HAITHAM BUNDAKJI, ISLAMIC SOCIETY OF ORANGE CO.: We were very pleased to see this young man coming to embrace Islam.

ROWLANDS: According to mosque leaders, Gadahn, who was 17 when he signed this declaration accepting Islam, developed a passion for the religion. His family was happy at first, because he had stopped listening to heavy metal. But then, according to mosque leaders, he started to change.

BUNDAKJI: He started gathering with a group of men that I myself didn't feel very comfortable about them.

ROWLANDS: Those men, according to mosque members, had extreme Islamic views and were angry with the way the mosque was run. They watched Gadahn develop that same anger until one day, they say it boiled over. BUNDAKJI: He came charging into my office that one day, screaming and yelling and angry -- really angry. And he caught me off guard, and he slapped me right across the face.

ROWLANDS: Gadahn was arrested and ended up leaving the mosque. According to his family, he left California for Pakistan in 1998. Then, in 2004, his family would see this ...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The U.S. citizen who converted to Islam, associated with Abu Zubaydah.

ROWLANDS: Adam Gadahn was wanted for questioning by the FBI for possible ties to al Qaeda.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He is known to have performed translations for al Qaeda.

PHILLIP GADAHN, FATHER: I was surprised, because I really didn't imagine he would do anything that would get him in this position.

ROWLANDS: Since then, Gadahn has been in several al Qaeda videos. In this one, released in July, he defends the practice of killing innocent Americans, saying international law doesn't apply.

A. GADAHN: No thanks, we have our own law, the law of God, who says in his book (SPEAKING IN ARABIC).

ROWLANDS: Because of his public role as an al Qaeda spokesman and the possibility he might be recognized, law enforcement officials say it's unlikely that Gadahn would actually carry out an attack.

ROBERT MUELLER, FBI DIRECTOR: He's certainly supporting al Qaeda, and is somebody whom we would very much like to arrest and prosecute.

ROWLANDS: Gadahn's importance to al Qaeda seems evident. In a recent video, he's introduced by bin Laden's top deputy, Ayman al- Zawahiri, and still, it's Gadahn that dominates the more than 45- minute message.

A. GADAHN: We have no choice but to fight those who fight us.

ROWLANDS: Because he knows the United States and speaks perfect English, experts say Gadahn is clearly a valuable asset for al Qaeda. What's unclear is why he turned against his country.

Ted Rowlands, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Carol Lin was in the NEWSROOM earlier. She had a school lockdown in New Mexico and now something else.

LIN: Yes, another school lockdown, but this one in Alhambra, California, which is just east of Pasadena in Southern California. The school right now is being evacuated. You're looking at live pictures from our affiliate, KABC.

Don, this is a tangled tale, but apparently they think that there is some kind of suspicious -- what they describe as a cylindrical object found on the campus. And here's what's kind of wacky about this tale. This really started last night when a similar object was found on Main Street in the town -- not on campus, but on Main Street.

So the sheriff's bomb squad disposed of it, but then at quarter to 9:00 last night, local time out there, they found a similar object on the school campus and so the bomb squad was sent out once again. They got rid of this object, and yet again, at 8:00 this morning, police learned that an employee of the school had seen a suspicious cylindrical object in a trash can. This is Alhambra High School.

So this was about three hours ago, and it has now evolved into a school evacuation. They are asking the students to leave. So they don't know if these objects are related to one another, but clearly now they think it's serious enough that they need to get the students out of the building. So that's what's happening right now in Alhambra, California. We'll keep an eye on it.

LEMON: Yes, Carol, and you can see from the live video that we have up there, the kids and I guess staff are milling about outside of that school.

LIN: Yes, it's just the strange connection to these objects from last night on Main Street and then again in a trash can last night on the school campus, and then again today, another object that they think is suspicious.

LEMON: Well, Carol, let's hope they get to the bottom of it, soon. Thank you.

LIN: Yes, big inconvenience for those kids.

PHILLIPS: If only the pain could go away so quickly. The one- room Amish schoolhouse where 10 young girls were shot last week, five of them fatally, is gone. Heavy equipment moved in just before dawn. The bell tower fell first, then the walls. Within minutes, the whole building was demolished.

The Amish plan to turn that site in Pennsylvania's Lancaster County into a pasture. For the first time being -- for the time being, rather, classes are being held in a garage on a nearby farm.

LEMON: First the messages, then the whispers, the rumors and allegations. Now, the testimony. Today a Republican member of the House Page Board testified before the House Ethics Committee. She says she was kept in the dark about Foley's advances toward teenage boys. The committee hopes to learn whether the House Republican leadership turned a blind eye to Foley's behavior for purely political reasons.

Also today, another key witness, Foley's former chief of staff, Kirk Fordham, says he knew of possible problems as early as 2000. He says he took his concerns to an aide to House Speaker Dennis Hastert -- pardon me. Hastert's chief of staff denies that.

And we expect to hear from ex-congressional aide Kirk Fordham and his attorney once they finish with the Ethics Committee. We'll bring you their remarks live. And for the latest on the story, check out CNN's Political Ticker. Just go to CNN/ticker for the latest political stories.

PHILLIPS: Well, straight ahead, entertainment news with A.J. Hammer of "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT."

Hey, A.J., what's on tap?

A.J. HAMMER, "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT": Kyra, we've got actors behaving badly today. Two TV doctors almost came to blows on the set of their hit show.

Also, Mel Gibson making his very first public appearance since his DWI arrest over the summer. I'll have those stories for you next in the NEWSROOM.

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LEMON: Oh, boy, I think it was McDreamy and McSomebodyElse, but there was fisticuffs on the set of a popular network drama, and Mel Gibson actually fesses up about his recent DUI arrest. SHOWBIZ TONIGHT's A.J. Hammer joins us for more on both of those stories.

It was McSomebody, a couple of them, right?

HAMMER: It wasn't McDreamy. And you and Kyra are getting along fine today, right, Don?

LEMON: Well, I don't know.

HAMMER: No pushing, no throwing punches.

LEMON: I'll let you know after the show.

HAMMER: All right, well, let me tell you what's going on here. There were reports that there was apparently a shoving match between two of the actors on "Grey's Anatomy". You hear of McDreamy, you know who we're talking about, Patrick Dempsey and Isaiah Washington, who play Dr. Shepherd (ph) and Burke (ph) on the show, had to be separated after a fight on the set. Apparently it was about another cast member, who was holding up the shooting of a scene. Well, both actors' representatives have said that they have since made up, everything is just fine, we haven't heard back from the network, yet, Don, as to exactly what they think about all of this.

LEMON: I'm sure we'll find out. And you know what, I'm scared of Kyra, she can hit really hard.

HAMMER: She'll take you down.

LEMON: Yes, I've seen her fight.

I got another question for you. We talked about Mel Gibson when we were leading up to you. That's her laughing.

PHILLIPS: You guys, come on, now, you've never seen me throw punches.

LEMON: I did.

PHILLIPS: A.J. do not listen to him.

HAMMER: I'm sorry. I don't mean to be instigating this.

PHILLIPS: I am a very -- I am Polly Anna all the way.

LEMON: OK. I don't believe that.

PHILLIPS: By the way, I would love to see McDreamy and McSteamy go at it. That could be kind of fun. What do you think, A.J.?

HAMMER: McDreamy and McSteamy, all right, I'll see if I can work that out for you.

PHILLIPS: Thanks.

LEMON: I'm going to stay out of that one.

Let's move on now to Mel Gibson.

HAMMER: Please.

LEMON: He actually spoke about his drunk driving arrest, and what was his message?

HAMMER: Well, the interview wasn't the sort of OK, I messed up, let's talk about my new movie. He actually had quite a bit to say, he was very candid. Gibson apologized yet again for his actions on July 28th. He was speeding down a Malibu, California highway and drinking from a bottle of tequila that night when he was pulled over and arrested for driving while intoxicated.

But as you no doubt remember, things got a little crazier that night. Gibson started spouting off anti-Semitic remarks to the arresting office, blaming the Jews for just about everything that is wrong with the world. Well, today, Gibson said that he now regards whole thing, believe it or not, as a blessing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MEL GIBSON, ACTOR: This whole experience, in a way for me, I'm sort of viewing it now as kind of a blessing, because...

DIANE SAWYER, ABC ANCHOR: A blessing?

GIBSON: Yes. Well, firstly, I got stopped before I did any real damage to anyone else. Thank God for that. I didn't hurt myself, you know, I didn't leave my kids fatherless. That's good, that's a blessing, OK? The other thing is, sometimes you need a cold bucket of water in the face to sort of snap to. (END VIDEO CLIP)

HAMMER: Gibson has been battling alcohol addiction for years. He was also arrested back in 1984 for drunk driving. Now, as for the anti-Semitic remarks, and Diane Sawyer did not let up, he denies being an anti-Semite, and he blames the alcohol.

LEMON: OK. I thought you were going to play something from him blaming the alcohol.

HAMMER: I actually thought I was also.

LEMON: That's all right.

HAMMER: This has been the subject of much debate, though, Don. You know, he's saying, it was the alcohol, I don't have those feelings in me.

LEMON: But people, usually, you know, some people say when you drink, your true feelings come out. How does he respond to that?

HAMMER: Well, that is something that Diane Sawyer kept harping on, as well. In fact, there was that Roman phrase that basically suggested the same thing, and Mel Gibson, essentially, is saying the Romans didn't know what they were talking about.

He did continue to deny that he is anti-Semitic throughout the entire interview, he'll be doing more of the things tomorrow, I'm certain. I want to mention a couple of the other things, quickly, that he said I found particularly interesting.

As wild as he was that night, when it came time to having his mugshot taken, he actually worried about how he would look, so tried to fix his hair. A lot of people were saying, they probably have a stylist down there in Malibu at the police station. He said he didn't want to look like that Nick Nolte mugshot that surfaced after he was arrested.

And then the next morning, listen to this, as he told his children about what happened, he felt the need to drink again. He had to have, as he put it, a couple of cold ones.

The second part of that interview, as I mentioned, will air tomorrow. Check out CNN's "AMERICAN MORNING", of course, and if anything interesting happens, we're going to be telling you about it tomorrow.

LEMON: A couple of cold ones, just so I don't get anything wrong, he drank again the next morning, basically, is what he was saying?

HAMMER: Yes. It was a little shocking to hear that. We're going to be all over this tonight.

LEMON: Yes. What do you have coming up later? HAMMER: Well, we're going to be asking the tough questions about the rehabilitation of Mel Gibson. The question is, will this interview change what people think of him. We'll be getting into that tonight, on T.V.'s most provocative entertainment news show, which of course is "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT". You'll catch us at 11:00 p.m. Eastern on CNN, headline prime.

LEMON: We'll be tuning in to that.

Thanks, A.J.

HAMMER: Thank you, Don.

PHILLIPS: Well, even though the calendar says fall, some of you could make the case for winter. Reynolds Wolf in the CNN "Weather Center", checking it all out.

(WEATHER REPORT)

PHILLIPS: We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back.

LEMON: We'll be back in the NEWSROOM.

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