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U.S. Intelligence Sources Can't Prove North Korean Nuclear Activity; Gerald Ford Undergoing Medical Tests; Buffalo Hit By Two Feet of Snow

Aired October 13, 2006 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Live pictures once again out of Buffalo, New York, thanks to our affiliate, WKBW. I tell you what, they are busy today. We're talking about a rare early October snowstorm. It just left parts of the Great Lakes and Midwest blanketed with two feet of snow, prompting widespread blackouts, closing schools, stranding travelers, downed tree limbs.
We've been talking about those, just toppled power lines, leaving 350,000 homes and businesses without electricity, in western New York. We're following every bit of this. We're waiting for Governor George Pataki to hold a news conference. We'll take it live as soon as it happens.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: We're also following a gruesome discovery on the Florida turnpike. Two adults and two children found shot to death on the side of the road. CNN's Susan Candiotti is live in Fort Pierce with the very latest.

Susan, you were at this press conference that just happened.

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT, THE NEWSROOM: That's right. It wrapped up just a short time ago.

What a disturbing scene this was for the authorities. They themselves admit, when they found this.

They have now nailed down exactly when they think this happened. And that is between about 1:00 and 3:00, 3:30 in the morning. The reason they know that is that just to this side of me there is a residential community on the other side of the turnpike.

A bit too much of a swing for us to show you right now, but behind me, you can see a blue tent. Over that tent is the scene where police say a car wound up. A car that was traveling southbound on the turnpike went off the highway, went about 35 to 40 feet, police say. Apparently ordered people out of the car. These are two adults, a male and a female, and two children. They estimate between the ages of 4 and 6. They say were ordered out of the car and then shot, multiple times throughout their bodies, both the adults and the children.

And again, what is particularly upsetting is that authorities say the woman in this case, possibly the mother, was in a position more or less trying to protect the young children. Here's what the sheriff said about that. SHERIFF KEN MASCARA: The woman, in a defensive posture, had both of the children surrounded, underneath her arms, in an effort that we can assume was to protect them from the gunfire.

CANDIOTTI: In fact, the sheriff went on to tell us that the woman was facing down with the children, one under each arm trying to cover them up. But the sheriff told me that not only did the gunman shoot the woman, shoot the man, but also shot the children. It wasn't as though the bullets went through the woman, but that the children were shot as well.

Now, they are seeking the public's help to try to find out what happened here. Again, this vehicle, they said, was traveling southbound on the turnpike near Fort Pierce, Florida. After apparently this shooting occurred, there were tire tracks that indicate that the vehicle got back onto the turnpike and continued heading south. They say there is a multi-state search going on right now. But will not explain why.

We do not know where the family, if they were a family, where these four people were from. They are not revealing which state, or whether they are U.S. citizens, only that they are four Hispanics. In addition to that, they said that they did find an identification on the woman, at the very least.

The bodies have been removed to the local medical examiner where autopsies will be performed. No sooner than tomorrow, but possibly as late as Monday, I am told. According to one of the medical examiner's spokesman that there is a lot of processing work to do.

Right now the authorities are looking for any bullet fragments. They might be able to recover from the scene. But they have a lot of work ahead of them -- Don?

LEMON: And Susan, as you mentioned, you said that police were asking for help. They said this may be the best way that they get help or find out any information to solve this crime. As you were speaking, the number was up on the screen, but I'll repeat it for our viewers. Thank you very much, Susan Candiotti.

That number is 772-462-3230, 772-462-3230.

As you heard the sheriff say a little while ago, and Susan, they're seeking your help with solving this crime -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Knee-deep snow, streets blocked, power out. That's what folks in western New York are dealing with today. We've been talking about it all morning. Many say it's not the snow as much as the trees, which until last night were full of fall color, now they're just white. Reporter Julie Fine of CNN affiliate WKBW has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JULIE FINE, REPORTER, WKBW: This is the scene throughout most of western New York today. There are tree branches down just about everywhere. Power lines are in the street. More than 300,000 customers without power, and now western New Yorkers are doing their best to dig out.

(Voice over): It's like a scene right out of "Friday the 13th." This is a street in Amherst, Burbank, that now looks like a park. And on nearby Smallwood, the digging out begins, shoveling out driveways, sidewalks and more.

KATHY SCHWEITZER, AMHERST RESIDENT: Unbelievable. I was at a wedding last week in a strapless dress, and now I can't believe five days later we're in this mess.

FINE: A snowman in the middle of October. No problem getting branches for the limbs. Trees are everywhere, blocking the road, as neighbors try to help each other out. You could not even make your way down Smallwood in a car if you wanted to. So the residents did the best they could to try to remedy the problem.

DAVE PAWLIK, AMHERST RESIDENT: A bunch of the neighbors we got -- they remembered I had a chain saw. We've been making our way down from Rankin down to Smallwood, and we're going to at least get a path cleared.

JEFF ROCKOFF, AMHERST RESIDENT: Obviously, this is pretty dangerous and scary. Nobody's moving anyplace. We have a tree down in the middle of the road. And obviously before the trucks get here to plow out, and remove all the trees off Smallwood, we need to clear this area.

FINE: Clearing the area with little else to do. Like many western New Yorkers, those on Smallwood have no electricity.

PAWLIK: Take a little catastrophe, but then you compare it to New Orleans, this is nothing.

FINE: One area where there is not a lot of activity, the roadways. Travel is banned in most areas, including downtown Buffalo. For CNN, I'm Julie Fine, in Buffalo.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: And our Rob Marciano is watching the wintry conditions once against from the Weather Center. What are the latest developments, Rob?

(WEATHER REPORT)

LEMON: A call to pull troops out of Iraq, complaints about post- war planning, you've heard it before, but from the head of the British army? Britain was, and is, the bush administration's biggest Iraq war ally. So, now, the army's top general has a new mission, damage control. CNN's Robin Oakley has details.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROBIN OAKLEY, CNN EUROPEAN POLITICAL EDITOR, CNN NEWSROOM (voice over): Britain's most senior soldier first aired criticisms in the tabloid "Daily Mail." He said that the presence of British troops in Iraq was making the security situation worse rather than better; and said that they had to be out of Iraq soon.

General Dannatt also criticized the poor planning after the invasion of Iraq and said that it had been naive to try to spread democracy in the country. These are devastating criticisms for Tony Blair who has insisted on the moral right of the invasion and who has said that British troops must remain in Iraq so long as they are needed, as a contribution against the worldwide war on terror.

Mr. Blair at Labor's conference last month outlined his opinions on the importance of the troops remaining.

TONY BLAIR, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: If we retreat now, hand over Iraq to Al Qaeda and sectarian death squads, Afghanistan back to Al Qaeda and the Taliban, we won't be safer. We will be committing a craven act of surrender that will put our future security in the deepest peril.

OAKLEY: It is unprecedented for a senior soldier such as General Dannatt, the chief of the defense staff, to air these kind of criticisms of the government's main line of foreign policy. But military experts say that he is reflecting a feeling among British troops, although he did defend the action in Afghanistan.

On Friday, facing a wider media, General Dannatt repeated some of his criticisms, though he insisted that he saw eye-to-eye with Tony Blair and was not advocating immediate withdrawal of British troops. The problem for Tony Blair is that he's already being forced out of office sooner than he wants to go next year, because of his policies on Iraq.

General Dannatt's criticisms will embolden the critics of the war. They will probably make the opposition parties, who have supported the operations in Iraq less steadfast in doing so in future, and they certainly deal a massive blow to the prime minister's authority. Robin Oakley, CNN, St. Andrews, Scotland.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Casualty of war or crime victim, British journalist Terry Lloyd was shot to death outside Basra as the Iraq war got under way. Today a British coroner's inquest found Lloyd died of a gunshot wound to the head, a wound inflicted unlawfully by U.S. troops. That apparently happened after Lloyd was shot in the back in a shootout between U.S. and Iraqi troops and was loaded into a minibus. U.S. forces didn't testify in the British investigation, but the coroner, and Lloyd's family, are now demanding they appear in court.

CHELSEY LLOYD, DAUGHTER OF TERRY LLOYD: We call on the attorney general and the DPP to commence proceedings to bring the soldiers, including their commanding officers, to justice. They did not come to this inquest to explain their actions. Let them now do so, in our criminal courts, where they are guaranteed to get a fair trial.

The value of inquest has been demonstrated in this case. Until now we were unaware my father was able to stand and walk to a makeshift ambulance after being shot once by an Iraqi bullet. The man who stopped to help my father was an ordinary Iraqi whose intentions were to take him and other wounded to a nearby hospital.

After helping my father into his minibus, the evidence shows that the vehicle was driving the wounded away was fired on by U.S. forces and that one bullet entered my father's head after passing through the vehicle, and this was this American bullet which killed him.

Many questions remain unanswered including why the U.S. forces fired on the two ITN vehicles with deadly firepower, what happened to Fred Nearak (ph) and Hussein Osmond, my father's colleagues. What were the standing orders and rules of engagement of U.S. Marines. Why is there 15 minutes missing, which we believe would show the moments when the two ITN vehicles came under fire.

The U.S. embassy in London is not commenting.

PHILLIPS: The Security Council, Saturday morning, the where and when of a U.N. vote on a draft resolution that would sanction North Korea for its purported nuke test. U.S. Ambassador John Bolton says there's unanimous agreement, but it's no secret that council members Russia and China want to tread lightly. Bolton had insisted on a vote within a week of the alleged test.

Japan isn't waiting. It's approved it's own new sanctions including closing Japanese ports to North Korean ships. Imports and exports, to and from, the North are banned. No North Korean government officials will be allowed to travel to Japan for six months. This is the toughest response to so far by any country to North Korea's reported nuclear test.

LEMON: The Friday edition of the Mark Foley scandal.

PHILLIPS: A House investigator plunges forward with the chairman of the House Page Board. Live report straight ahead from the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Eleven million containers, 11 million chances each year to slip a weapon of mass destruction into a U.S. port. President Bush signed a bill today to tighten inspections of incoming cargo containers, an issue that picked up steam after the controversial deal to hand control of six American ports to a firm in Dubai. At the signing ceremony, the president noted the bill includes a post-attack recovery plan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Finally, the Safe Port act requires the Department of Homeland Security to establish a plan to speed the resumption of trade in the event of a terrorist attack on our ports or waterways.

This bill makes clear that the federal government has the authority to clear waterways, identify cleanup equipment, and re- establish the flow of commerce following a terrorist attack. We'll do everything we can to prevent an attack. But if the terrorists succeed in launching an attack, we'll be ready to respond.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: An unrelated provision in that bill makes it harder for gamblers to cover their (AUDIO GAP). It blocks them from using credit cards, checks or electronic transfers to pay debts. Last year alone, it's estimated Americans bet almost $6 billion over the Internet. And there's no government agency or commission to protect those gamblers from excess losses or fraud.

Now, critics point out there's also no real way to stop children from betting since there is no way to verify ages. And they point out online players like casino visitors can gamble 24 hours a day.

PHILLIPS: Governor George Pataki talking about that snowstorm that blasted Buffalo. Let's listen in.

(BEGIN LIVE FEED, IN PROGRESS)

GOV. GEORGE PATAKI, NEW YORK: ...still has posed, and continues to pose, very real threats to the health and the safety of the people of western New York.

I want to begin by commending your leaders out here. Who have responded with their teams, their emergency management teams, in just a tremendous way. The city, the county, Congressman Reynolds, the state have all been working very closely together, exactly the way it's supposed to be. Coordination, cooperation, communication, all of us working to together to bring the people of western New York through this crisis.

I also want to commend the neighboring communities because it's not just the communities that have been affected, but neighboring counties, neighboring cities and towns have sent in crews to help out. And it is New York at its best. Neighbor helping neighbor, community helping community, all of us working together to get through this.

Having said that, there is still enormous risk. As the weather warms, there are going to continue to be trees coming down, power lines that might be coming down. As power comes back on with flooding in people's basements, they have to be very concerned if they throw on a switch, if people are out there untrained, using a chainsaw or other piece of equipment. People have to be very, very vigilant and careful in their behavior because we are in a state of emergency.

And I do want to just advise you that this morning, I did declare a disaster emergency in Erie County, Niagara County, and Genesee County, and Orleans County. And that state of disaster emergency includes adjacent counties as well.

At the current time, the state has every resource we could make available here. Highway crews, more than 100 on the throughway at this very moment. We have mobilized DEC and parks crews to help with the removal of tree limbs and other debris. The power authority and our emergency office is coordinating the delivery of emergency generators and other additional backup power support.

Where we stand right now, is there are close to 380,000 customers in western New York without power. That hasn't happened in New York state since the devastating ice storms that occurred about 10 years ago. And it's going to take some time to get that power back. So we ask that people help their neighbors, that they go do what New Yorkers do best, go door to door, knock on your neighbor's door. If you haven't seen the people, make sure they're OK. If you have any concerns, express them through your local emergency services or your local government.

We know people are going to be without power for some time and presumably without heat for some time as well. The local governments, counties are setting up shelters and will do their best to disseminate the information as to where those shelters are.

But the bottom line to me is very simple. The government officials, the communities are working exceptionally well together, doing everything they can to get people's lives back to normal as quickly as possible. But there is still risk. Be aware of that risk. Take care of yourselves and your neighbors. Listen to any directives that come from your local officials. And count on the experts to do the job that they are doing so well.

I've been through so many disasters of all different natures since I've been governor. And we've gotten through them all strong and gotten through them well. We will get through this strong and better than we began, but we have to do it in a coordinated and cooperation basis.

To everyone, thank you. And let me now turn it over to Congressman Reynolds. I have requested that Congressman Reynolds work with the White House. I've declared a state emergency for these four counties. It now requires a federal designation of an emergency as well. And the congressman, along with Senators Clinton and Schumer, I know, have been working on that already to get the federal government to try to recognize the nature of the disaster we are dealing with. Congressman?

REP. TOM REYNOLDS, (R-NY): Thank you, Governor.

First of all, I appreciate not only, as we talked earlier this morning, about the problems we have here, but that you're on-site and have seen the devastation and the close working relationship you have with Mayor Brown and the city administration as well as County Executive Giambra and the county administration. And as Senator Majars (ph) is also with me working with Niagara, in addition.

And I think it's important that everybody sees that the team and the process works well, city to county, county to state, state to the federal government. What we've attempted to do, by expediting the state, with the governor's assistance, starting early this morning, and then him being on-site now to help continue to coordinate that, is also -- we've talked to the White House, asking them, as the governor declares this declaration, that we get prompt and quick designation out of the federal government, as well as the state sends the data to them. And they are waiting for CIMO (ph) to complete that documentation on that end.

There have also been some very good ideas that have come out of this team of professionals that we will look to at the state and federal level to provide any and all assistance we can to continue getting the storm.

In the suburbs of northern Erie County, and in the city, it is clear that many people have never had this type of devastation where trees and power lines and all of the apparatus that goes with electrical service have been this devastated in the area. And to see the coordination, it's working well. We're just going to have to work in a united front to get this done as quickly as possible. And I just greatly appreciate the great cooperation.

PATAKI: Mayor? Mayor Brown?

MAYOR BYRON W. BROWN, BUFFALO, NEW YORK: Thank you, Governor.

Let me just say that the level of cooperation that the City of Buffalo has received from the county, from the state, from the federal government, has been absolutely tremendous.

Our major concern is making sure that we are ensuring the safety of the residents of the City of Buffalo. We have our firefighters out working to trim trees and remove trees from streets in the city. We have public works removing trees from streets in the city. We also have our sewer authority working with public works and plowing streets in the city, so that we can make streets passable for emergency vehicles, so that national grid can do the tough work that they are doing to try to get power restored to neighborhoods throughout the city of buffalo.

At this time, we have about 75,000 homes that are without power in the city of Buffalo. That's about 70 percent of our residences. And so the collaboration, coordination and cooperation that we are receiving in getting power restored and making sure that emergency vehicles can travel our streets, and fight fires and deal with medical emergencies, is very essential.

Let me say that our division of citizen services has been set up as a non-emergency number, citizens who want to report power lines down, or trees that are blocking their streets, or other problems that they might be having can call 851-4890.

For people that want to report power outages, they can call 1- 800-NIAGARA. Again, governor, I want to thank you for being here for surveying the damage and for your tremendous cooperation that you have provided to Buffalo, Erie County, and western New York.

PATAKI: Thank you, mayor. County Executive Giambra.

JOEL GIAMBRA, ERIE COUNTY EXECUTIVE: Thanks, Governor. I, too, want to thank you, Governor, for coming in and showing your compassion and concern as usual, for the good people of western New York.

I also want to thank the dedicated emergency service people who are here today and those out on the streets right now for a job well done. In a very short period of time, we were able to mobilize these great professionals and protect people from harm's way.

We do have some challenges in the next couple of days, the warm weather, potential for flooding and the lack of power is going to provide some real challenges. And we are working very diligently to ensure that we can minimize --

(END LIVE FEED, IN PROGRESS)

PHILLIPS: You're hearing from all the leaders there out of New York. This is the county executive, Joel Giambra, who is speaking right now. But we heard from New York Governor George Pataki, also the mayor of Buffalo, Byron Brown, Congressman Tom Reynolds. Also they mentioned Senator Clinton and Schumer, both working the federal government side of things to try and bring help to New York City.

Bottom line is safety. There's a lot of concern for the people out on the roads, the people still in their homes, the governor stressing check on your neighbors, make sure everything's OK. If you haven't seen someone in a while, just make sure that they are -- they're doing all right.

Meanwhile, they've got crews out there trying to cut down trees and get power lines back up. They've got emergency generators coming out in full force. In addition, we were saying 350,000 people without power. The governor has raised that now 380,000 people without power. This is the worst storm the governor said since the ice storms 10 years ago. So we're going to follow all the developments there out of Buffalo.

LEMON: You know, what's amazing, 70 percent of the residents in the city of Buffalo, alone without power.

PHILLIPS: That's pretty amazing.

LEMON: So, 75,000 people.

PHILLIPS: That is just completely shut down. You know, you have to think about the elderly, you have to think about those in the hospital. So there's a lot of concerns to get things up and running because of those needs.

LEMON: Absolutely.

PHILLIPS: Well, small loans to poor people. I'm talking really small loans to really poor people. It's not the Wall Street way.

LEMON: But today it earned the Nobel Peace prize for this man, details coming up in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The project began when he found himself with a commision for an opera and a bad case of composers block. PROF. DAVID COPE, MUSIC, UC SANTA CRUZ: I really had a problem. I couldn't figure out why C sharp was any better than C natural or D to start the piece. It was really tough.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So David Cope wrote a computer program to analyze his music or that of any other composer and write original music in that composer's unique style.

COPE: It finds commonalities in the style, which I call signatures, which are elements which a composer uses in more than one piece that we would miss hearing if we heard a piece without them being there. We don't want a piece to sound like a piece in the database, obviously. So in the analysis portion, there are elements which look for differences and then sort of highlights those so you get variations of the material in the database.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not everyone's happy with the result. In fact, some people have been quite upset.

COPE: The anger usually stems, I think, from this feeling like, you know, computers or machines have taken over everything of humankind except creativity, and now here is somebody coming along saying I'm going to take that away, too.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cope says he's simply using it as a tool.

COPE: We want to make it do the matters, it isn't what it wants to do on its own volition.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Well, he says he tried to stop ex-Congressman Mark Foley from e-mailing a former page. Today Representative John Shimkus is telling his story to House investigators. Shimkus chairs the board that oversees the page program. He says he confronted Foley last fall, but did not inform the rest of the page board, nor the House Ethics Committee.

Foley's former chief of staff testified before the ethics panel yesterday. Kirk Fordham has publicly said he warned the staff of House Speaker Dennis Hastert about Foley's years -- Foley years ago. Hastert's staff denies that.

And make sure you get your daily dose of political news from CNN's new Political Ticker. Just go to CNN.com/ticker.

PHILLIPS: The fallout, the shockwaves, the repercussions unmistakably real. But what if North Korea's nuclear test wasn't? U.S. intelligence sources say they can't prove anything nuclear went down in North Korea on Monday. An update now from the Pentagon and CNN's Barbara Starr.

Barbara, did we get any results from those air tests? BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kyra, not just yet. You know, there seems to be, like, two choices: either North Korea detonated a nuclear device, or they didn't. But now there seems to be a third choice, and it's a big maybe.

Intelligence sources, U.S. government sources, now telling CNN that they did conduct an airborne reconnaissance flight the day after the test. They collected some air samples. They have looked at those air samples, and there is no indication of radioactive material in the air. So the air samples so far now have come up empty.

That may or may not mean anything because it is possible it was still a nuclear explosion underground, and the North Koreans simply sealed the sight up so tight that nothing escaped. It's also possible it was, in fact, some sort of conventional explosion.

For the diplomatic community, for the national security community, life goes on, pushing for those sanctions at the U.N. For the intelligence services around the world, they would like some certainty. They want to know what North Korea really has, and at this point, they don't know -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right. We'll stay on top of it. Thanks, Barbara.

LEMON: North Korea tops the president's agenda today. With the story from the White House, CNN's Kathleen Koch.

Kathleen, more tough talk today, right?

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, indeed, Don. And the White House, though, is also still engaged as well as the Pentagon in trying to determine whether or not this was an actual test. At the briefing this afternoon, press secretary Tony Snow says analysis is still going on, and that it's their understanding that it could be another day or two before U.S. scientists have some answers.

But he said, as Barbara just pointed out, that we may never know with complete certainty whether or not an actual test was conducted. But Snow insists that that will not impact the U.S.'s continuing push for very tough sanctions against North Korea. He points out that what North Korea did on Sunday was, quote, "an act of provocation that has unified the international community."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TONY SNOW, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: What's now happened is that the international community has said no more carrots, no more rewards for bad behavior. There are going to be punishments. There are going to be consequences for bad behavior.

So you've seen the United States and the people that have the most leverage over the North Koreans, which would be the Chinese, the Japanese, the South Koreans and the Russian, they're in on it, too. They agree they're equal partners in this.

(END VIDEO CLIP) KOCH: The question now is will those equal partners, though, stand together and support the tough sanctions that the United Nations has put into the form of a resolution and is hoping to see a vote on as soon as tomorrow in the United Nations Security Council.

They would include measures including, perhaps, an embargo on missiles, tanks, warships and combat aircraft. When asked whether or not Russia and China, which have both traditionally opposed sanctions, whether they were getting cold feet, Tony Snow said no, quote, "that's not the impression we've gotten."

Back to you, Don.

LEMON: And this one has been bubbling up for awhile. Again, you're talking about Dubai. There's more measures put into place, is that correct?

KOCH: Yes, there were some ports -- there was a port security bill, safe ports that President Bush signed into law this morning. And basically what it will do is it will toughen security measures at all 361 ports around the nation, a big commitment of resources, many billions of dollars.

And this, many lawmakers say, really long overdue since 9/11, their belief that the ports have been left largely unprotected, a gaping security hole that the administration is hoping to plug.

Back to you, Don.

LEMON: All right. Thank you very much.

KOCH: You bet.

PHILLIPS: October surprise. It has nothing to do with politics, though.

LEMON: And everything to do with this. Snow, and boy, lots of it. We'll hear from New York Governor George Pataki ahead in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, the Sistine Chapel, St. Peter's Basilica. There's plenty to see at the Vatican, but what lies beneath? Or should I say who?

CNN's faith and values correspondent Delia Gallagher joins me with some newly uncovered revelations.

Boy, I bet you would have loved to have been there the moment that happened.

DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN FAITH AND VALUES CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Well, you know, in fact, Kyra, this was a spectacular discovery on the part of the Vatican. It happened three years ago in a very unusual way.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GALLAGHER (voice-over): All the Vatican wanted was a place to park more cars. Instead, they found a place where antiquity parked its dead.

FRANCESCO BURANELLI, DIRECTOR, VATICAN MUSEUMS (through translator): We have a section of Roman society between the first and fourth century, from poor people and the middle class, to the very important families.

GALLAGHER: Deep beneath Vatican City, behind St. Peter's Basilica, is an ancient Pagan burial ground, complete with a mosaic of Dionysus, the Greek god of wine. In all, there are some 40 mausoleums and 200 tombs, some of which have terracotta tubes which were used by families to feed honey to their dead.

There's also the grave of Alsimus (ph), a slave of the emperor Nero, and according to his headstone, a chief set designer at Rome's infamous theater, Pompeii, the place Julius Caesar was killed.

And amid all this Paganism, there may even be some evidence of early Christianity

GIANDOMENICO SPINOLA, ARCHAEOLOGIST, VATICAN MUSEUMS (through translator): We have one piece of evidence that could prove a Christian presence in the burial site. This element of the praying woman suggests the possibility that the man buried inside was a Christian.

GALLAGHER: It's found on a stone coffin of a man who lived from 270 to 290 A.D. And all of it can now be viewed by the public, even though the restoration itself won't be complete for several years.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GALLAGHER: And, Kyra, the Vatican says that this discovery is second only in importance to the burial ground that's under St. Peter's, which, of course, contains, they say, the relics of Saint Peter, the first pope.

PHILLIPS: Wow. So how did they first make the discovery?

GALLAGHER: Well, it's a great story because they claim that in the construction site when they were trying to make this garage, somebody saw Latin inscription on one of the pieces of concrete that was being hauled away in the back of a dump truck. So they sort of said, stop, you know, there must be something here. I think they probably had some idea, because you can't dig very much at the Vatican without bumping into some piece of history. So they must have been extra cautious to try and make sure they weren't destroying some piece of history.

PHILLIPS: Now, have there been other cases of digging for something and discovering other ancient artifacts?

GALLAGHER: It happens all the time. I mean, it happens all over Rome, and it certainly happens at the Vatican. Just a couple of years ago, they were trying to build another garage. It's a constant problem for them, parking. And they came across the sort of second century mosaic, a fresco mosaic wall, and they had to literally remove it piece by piece, put it into a museum and then continue with the demolition of the wall so they could have their garage. So those are the sorts of things that they come up against. And one of the reasons why people say, you know, it takes the Vatican so long to change, well, that's why.

PHILLIPS: Well, now I'm thinking years and years ahead, right, they're going to find these garages and think, oh, my gosh, people used to use these garages. Because everything will be high tech, right?

GALLAGHER: Not as nice as finding some of these burial grounds, I'll say.

PHILLIPS: Well, on a bit of a different subject, there's been a lot of talk about the pope maybe bringing back the Latin Mass. Is that true?

GALLAGHER: Yes. This has been the Catholic world all abuzz for what has not yet been confirmed by the Vatican. But certainly some people are talking that there is an announcement imminent or a document on the way about the Tridentine Mass. This was the mass that was said before 1960s, when the Vatican II changed the mass. You know, the priest used to have his back to the congregation, say the words in Latin. They were also different words.

And many people were unhappy with that kind of change after Vatican II, this new mass, they said. And in fact, it caused a schism with some in the Catholic Church. They actually left because of this reason. So it's been a bone of contention for some time. This pope, as John Paul II, were always fans of this mass. It was never entirely outlawed by Vatican II, but it certainly fell out of favor.

And so the word is that he's going to bring it back and say, you know, everybody can celebrate this if they want to. So, certainly, you know, there's no sense that the mass, as Catholics know it, is going to disappear, but that the Tridentine Mass would be allowed to be said around the world if that's what some parishes wanted to do.

PHILLIPS: Delia Gallagher, always a pleasure.

GALLAGHER: Thanks, Kyra.

LEMON: Upstate New York, digging out and calling out the big guns, -- the National Guard, that is -- to help dig out from the first blast of wintry weather. We'll hear from New York state Governor George Pataki ahead in the CNN NEWSROOM.

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LEMON: Banker to the poor, winner of the Nobel. This year's Nobel Peace Prize goes to Bangladeshi economist Muhammad Yunus and the Grameen Bank he founded back in 1983. They've lifted millions of people out of poverty, particularly women, through very small loans; the smallest, $50. Their so-called microcredit lending system is copied in more than 100 countries, including right here in the U.S.

Now Yunus, who titled his memoir "Banker to the Poor," says he'll use his share of the $1.4 million Nobel award to start a company that makes low-cost, high-nutrition foods. And for more on the microcredit movement, let's bring in Susan Lisovicz at the New York Stock Exchange. First of all Susan, happy Friday, and tell us, how does this program exactly work?

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PHILLIPS: Another day at Eisenhower for Gerald Ford. That's Eisenhower Medical Center, near the former president's home in the California desert. Ford's chief of staff says that he's still having tests and still doing well. He's been in and out of hospitals several times this year, but a government source tells CNN his life is not in danger. Just a few minutes ago, Steven Ford spoke about his father's condition at a school dedication ceremony in Michigan.

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STEVEN FORD, GERALD FORD'S SON: I mean, it's just normal for a 93-year-old man. Obviously, it's hard. You know, he had to have a pacemaker put in this summer. You know, eventually, your heart wears out. But he's still strong, doing well. He was so mad that he couldn't come here. I probably can't say on camera what he said to the doctors when they said no. But he's here in spirit.

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PHILLIPS: Probably mad he can't be on that golf course either. At 93, Ford is the oldest living ex-president.

LEMON: And we certainly wish him well.

Well, once a leader of the free world, the other's a rock star trying to make the world a better place.

PHILLIPS: What do President Bush and U2 front man Bono talk about when they get together? You're going to find out, straight ahead.

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