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American Morning
Taking Sanctions Against North Korea; Investigating the Foley Scandal; Is the U.S. Prepared for a Nuclear Attack?
Aired October 13, 2006 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you.
It is Friday, October 13th.
I'm Miles O'Brien.
You're watching AMERICAN MORNING.
BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, you are.
And I'm Betty Nguyen in for Soledad O'Brien today.
O'BRIEN: Let's get right to the news wall and see what stories we're following for you this morning. Lots happening.
The investigation in the Mark Foley page scandal is picking up steam and continues. The chairman of the Congressional page program testifying today before the House Ethics Committee. He says he confronted the former Congressman about his inappropriate e-mails to pages a full year ago.
NGUYEN: Also happening on this AMERICAN MORNING, what to do about North Korea. The U.N. nearing an agreement on sanctions against Pyongyang. But Japan not waiting for action. They are approving wide ranging sanctions on its own.
O'BRIEN: The U.S. is reviewing its strategy in Iraq. This is according to the nation's top general, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Peter Pace. This all comes with October on track to be one of the deadliest months in that country for U.S. troops.
NGUYEN: And the Nobel Peace Prize awarded this morning to Bangladeshi economist Muhammad Yunus and the bank that he founded for their grassroots efforts to end world poverty.
O'BRIEN: And even in a city synonymous with snow, this one is a dozy. An October snowstorm for Buffalo.
NGUYEN: Yes.
O'BRIEN: Chad Myers has lived there. He knows the pain of being in Buffalo in the winter...
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes.
O'BRIEN: ... and can attest to this one -- hello, Chad. MYERS: Good morning, Miles.
Good morning, Betty.
(WEATHER REPORT)
O'BRIEN: On Capitol Hill, more focus this morning on Florida Congressman Mark Foley, his suggestive e-mails and instant messages to pages and whether Republican leaders swept it all under the carpet.
CNN's Andrea Koppel live on Capitol Hill this morning with more -- hello, Andrea.
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, there, Miles.
And as someone who worked with Mark Foley for years, Kirk Fordham's sworn testimony could help Congressional investigators figure out who knew what when and if any Republican leaders are lying or if they're telling the truth.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
KOPPEL (voice-over): Kirk Fordham emerged after four-and-a-half hours of questioning by members of the House Ethics Committee. His attorney said Fordham had been forthcoming.
TIMOTHY HEAPHY, FORDHAM'S ATTORNEY: He's been truthful and cooperative and will continue to be throughout this and other investigations.
KOPPEL: Hours earlier, reporters cornered Fordham at his Washington home and peppered him with questions.
QUESTION: Are you nervous about testifying under oath?
KIRK FORDHAM, FORMER FOLEY CHIEF OF STAFF: Not really.
I slept very well last night. I had a good night's sleep. I talked to my family and, you know, I'm going to tell the truth.
KOPPEL: But while Fordham may be sleeping well, it's a safe bet some House Republican aides are not. That's because a source familiar with Fordham's account of events tells CNN he planned to testify he'd warned a top aide to Speaker Dennis Hastert about Foley's behavior several years ago. That directly contradicts the Speaker's version that his office first learned about Foley's inappropriate e-mails to House pages last fall.
FORDHAM: I'm going to tell the truth and that will become apparent once the report is issued.
KOPPEL: But in a written statement, Speaker Hastert's chief of staff has disputed Fordham's allegation, saying simply: "What Kirk Fordham said did not happen."
The other Republican who testified Thursday was West Virginia Congresswoman Shelley Moore Capito, one of three House members responsible for overseeing the page program.
REP. SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, PAGE BOARD MEMBER: I'm a member of the Page Board who was not informed of the e-mail messages that were sent. And I want to see this investigation go forth quickly and reach a conclusion.
KOPPEL: But while Capito was in the dark about Foley until two weeks ago, Illinois Republican John Shimkus, the board's chairman, was not.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
KOPPEL: And Shimkus was among the first lawmakers who was first notified about Foley's inappropriate e-mail exchanges with that 16- year-old boy in Louisiana last fall. And he was also the one who met with Foley, along with the House clerk, Miles, to tell him to knock it off -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: Andrea Koppel on Capitol Hill.
Thank you.
President Bush propping up embattled House Speaker Dennis Hastert. The president appearing side by side with Hastert for the first time since the Foley scandal erupted last night. It happened at a fundraiser in Chicago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I want to say this to you. I am proud to be standing with the current Speaker of the House, who is going to be the future Speaker of the House.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NGUYEN: Let's get you to the North Korea nuclear test now.
Japan not waiting for the U.N. Security Council. The Japanese cabinet today voting to shut the door on North Korea. No imports, no exports. It's also refusing to allow any North Korean government officials to travel to Japan for six months.
Meanwhile, the Bush administration is trying to get action today at the U.N. Security Council on sanctions it wants against Pyongyang.
Well, the leaders of China and South Korea today talking about the North Korean threat during a face-to-face meeting in Beijing.
Let's get some details now live.
CNN's Hugh Riminton joins us from Beijing -- Hugh, a big day.
HUGH RIMINTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A big day, Betty.
The diplomacy has been going fast and furious. But it is inching the parties toward some form of common ground on exactly what action to take against North Korea.
One of the most intriguing meetings today, a Russian envoy flying into Pyongyang to talk with the North Korean regime. We haven't heard anything about where those discussions left them.
What we are seeing, though, is China and the North -- and the South Korean, I should say -- president meeting in Beijing. They came out to say that they were resolutely opposed to North Korea having a nuclear weapon. They say that is something that they can never accept. They have condemned it. They have urged North Korea to return to talks and stop doing things that will make matters worse -- Betty.
NGUYEN: All right, Hugh, thank you for that -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: Britain's top general in Iraq dropping a bombshell today, offering a grim assessment of the situation there.
General Richard Dannatt told a British newspaper troops are making matters worse in Iraq, while making Brits at home less secure. He said the troops under his command, 7,500 of them, should be pulled out of Iraq soon.
This morning, he is backpedaling a little bit, saying he supports a staggered withdrawal over the next two to three years.
It is one of the deadliest months in Iraq for U.S. troops, so perhaps unsurprising that U.S. military leaders are conducting a complete review of the strategy to win in Iraq.
CNN's Barbara Starr live at the Pentagon with more -- Barbara, good morning.
BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Miles, it really is now coming all out in the open.
A strategy review underway here in the Pentagon, in the U.S. military, about the situation in Iraq. General Peter Pace, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, making it very clearly that everything is under review, basically including the implicit basic foundation of the war that, as Iraqi forces stand up, U.S. forces could stand down and withdraw.
General Pace talking a bit yesterday to CNN about the situation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEN. PETER PACE, JOINT CHIEFS CHAIRMAN: Are those assumptions still valid?
If they are, OK, then how are we doing in getting to where we're supposed to be going?
If we're getting there, how do we reinforce that?
If we're not, what should we change? (END VIDEO CLIP)
STARR: General Pace, himself a Vietnam vet, is very much aware of that era, when many generals were criticized years later for not standing up and talking about their concerns about the Vietnam War. He has often said he always remembers that.
So now, he is talking to commanders coming back from Iraq, getting their views about what's going on. And there's another study going on, another review chaired by former Treasury Secretary James Baker. A number of people assembled under him and others to look at the war.
We've talked to some members of that Iraq study group that are due to report to Congress. Apparently, they're in such disarray at the moment, they're talking about why the U.S. got into war in the first place.
Nobody able to really come up with that magic solution, because it's very tough business. There doesn't really appear to be one -- more troops, less troops or stay the course. Nobody yet coming up with an alternative -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: And the government flailing as it tries to come up with a unity government.
STARR: Well, in Iraq, that is the other part of this equation. The Iraqi parliament now passing a law that is of great concern to Washington. It looks like it would be a law that, for the first time, would set up the procedures for the potential partition of Iraq into autonomous regions, if you will -- an area for the Kurds, the Sunnis and the Shia. And that, of course, would basically undercut the basic foundation for the new central Iraqi government and central Iraqi security forces. It, by all accounts, would be a very significant problem -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: Barbara Starr at the Pentagon.
Thank you.
This morning in southern Afghanistan, nine are dead, including a NATO soldier, victims of a suicide bomber. The bomber drove a car into a NATO convoy as it passed through the heart of Kandahar. The explosion also wounded eight people, including two children.
Afghanistan is going through its most violent period since 2001, particularly in the country's southern and eastern regions -- Betty.
NGUYEN: Well, just this morning, the winners of the Nobel Peace Prize were announced in Oslo, Norway. Bangladeshi Muhammad Yunus and the bank that he founded, the Grameen Bank, will share the $1.3 million prize. They were cited for their efforts to uplift people's lives through what they call micro economy. The 66-year-old Yunus, who has been called the banker to the poor, founded this bank when he realized that granting even small loans can make a big difference in people's lives. In 25 years, the bank has loaned more than $3 billion to two million borrowers.
And coming up, Britain's Army chief says troops should be pulled out of Iraq and soon.
What's the reaction Washington to this?
We're going to ask Senator Biden about just that.
And winter still more than two months away, but look at this. It looks like it's already arrived. Tell folks in Buffalo that winter is not here.
We'll take a look at that ahead here on this AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Britain's top general dropping a bombshell this morning.
General Richard Dannatt told a British newspaper he believes his country should, and we quote him now: "Get ourselves out some time soon because our presence exacerbates the security problems."
The statement comes during a terribly violent period in Iraq and as the Pentagon reevaluates its war planning.
Delaware's Joe Biden is the ranking Democrat on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.
He's joining us now from Wilmington, Delaware.
Senator Biden, Good to have you back on the program.
SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN (D-DW), FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE: Good to be back, Miles.
O'BRIEN: Why do you think of those comments from General Dannatt?
BIDEN: I think they're a reflection of the fact that we have no plan to move forward in Iraq. We have basically a plan how not to lose, but not how to win.
And I was just in Basra. That's the British controlled area, just in July again. And the fact of the matter is the British general down there had similar concerns.
So, it's not a surprise to me.
O'BRIEN: All right, let's go back -- roll the tape back a little bit to November. I want to play for you some of your own words and see what you think about them now.
BIDEN: OK. O'BRIEN: Let's listen.
BIDEN: OK.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: Here's my conviction. In 2006, American troops are going to begin to leave Iraq in large numbers and by the end of that year, I believe we'll have redeployed at least 50,000 American forces.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: A lot has changed. A lot of bloodshed since that statement.
BIDEN: Yes.
O'BRIEN: Do you feel as if that is a little bit too sanguine?
BIDEN: Well, I think it was too sanguine. I thought the administration was going to move forward on a low -- in a direction they did not move. And the truth of the matter is, they've done nothing during this period to deal with the sectarian violence.
Everybody says there's no plan out there. I won't bore you, I don't have the time, but if people go on www.planforiraq.com, I've laid out, five months ago, a detailed plan, along with Les Gelb, that's getting an awful lot of debate these days. And it's based upon the notion that you need a political solution here.
The Iraqis have already -- we already trained up over 400,000 Iraqis. So much for the argument that once we train them up, we can stand down.
there is a need to respond to what the Iraqis are talking about. Their constitution allows them to have a federal system. They voted on putting such a system in place over the next 18 months. And we've done nothing to accommodate how they're going to be able to successfully do that in a political solution by making sure that the Sunnis -- those guys in the middle -- get a piece of the oil. That still stop the insurgency.
We've got to give these folks breathing room like we did in Bosnia with the Dayton Accords in order for this country to hold together and us having any chance of doing something other than trading a dictator for chaos.
O'BRIEN: What you're pushing for here is a partitioning of Iraq and...
BIDEN: No, I'm not. No, no. No, no, no. No. They're your words.
O'BRIEN: All right. Well what...
BIDEN: It is not a partitioning. O'BRIEN: Well, how would you...
BIDEN: Let's get something straight.
O'BRIEN: ... describe it then?
BIDEN: No, wait.
O'BRIEN: Because the president said...
BIDEN: No, I was -- federal...
O'BRIEN: Let me just say -- let me just get this out there and you can respond to the whole ball of wax.
BIDEN: Yes, OK.
All right.
O'BRIEN: The president says...
BIDEN: All right.
O'BRIEN: ... what you suggest, partitioning or otherwise, is like pouring oil on the fire.
Respond to all of that.
BIDEN: Well, let's look at the president's credibility on anything he's said so far about Iraq. Name me one thing he's been right about so far. So the fact that he thinks it's a bad idea doesn't really give it, you know, sound its death knoll. Under the constitution that we helped the Iraqis draft, our ambassador, in that constitution, it specifically says the Iraqis contemplate having a federal system, like we do -- separate states. And it allows for them, under their constitution -- the constitution we pushed -- allows for them to divide like the Kurds already have.
The Kurds already have a Kurdish region, like the State of New York or the State of Pennsylvania.
O'BRIEN: Yes, but it...
BIDEN: It allows the other parties to do the same thing.
O'BRIEN: But let's be clear. The Kurds have a lot of oil. The Shias to the south have a lot of oil. And the Sunnis in the middle...
BIDEN: Exactly right.
O'BRIEN: ... who are responsible for the insurgency don't.
BIDEN: Exactly right.
O'BRIEN: And that's where the rub is.
So how do you fix that?
BIDEN: Exactly right. You give the Sunnis some oil, which is also contemplated --
O'BRIEN: But there's not a lot of trust
BIDEN: For in their constitution.
O'BRIEN: ... there's not a lot of trust there between these groups, when you start talking about sharing resources.
BIDEN: Sure, there's not a lot of trust in there.
O'BRIEN: Yes.
BIDEN: Sure, there's not a lot of trust. That's why there has to be a constitutional amendment. That's what we implied would happen when that constitution was voted on. And so, look, it is -- we said we're going to keep hands off. Give me a break. We're the ones that pushed the process the way it is now. We give -- guarantee the Sunnis that they get 20 percent of the oil. I guarantee you, you'll see things change overnight. The Sunnis have no resources sitting there in the middle.
My plan that I've been laid out there five months ago with Les Gelb says three things: give the Sunnis a piece of the oil under their existing constitution. Let them decide how they're going to federate their country, like we did and like they did in Bosnia. And get an international agreement for the neighbors to stay out.
The president's done none of those things. He's pushed for none of that.
He's said what? Stay the course.
Now you have a British general saying, in effect, staying the course is a disaster. You have the Pentagon now -- you just had a piece on there saying they've got to reconsider everything they've been doing. You have the intelligence communities of the United States of America -- six -- 19 of them -- saying that we are creating more terrorists than we are killing.
O'BRIEN: All right, look...
BIDEN: There is a plan.
O'BRIEN: All right, but...
BIDEN: There is a way.
O'BRIEN: I want to get a little bit on Korea in here, because we've got other...
BIDEN: Sure.
O'BRIEN: There's plenty of fish to fry these days... BIDEN: Yes.
O'BRIEN: ... when it comes to the Foreign Relations Committee.
BIDEN: Sure there are, unfortunately.
O'BRIEN: Yes.
Senator McCain, just the other day, laying blame for what we're seeing in Korea squarely on the doorstep of the Clinton administration.
Let's listen for just a moment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM WDIV RADIO)
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: We had a carrots and no sticks policy that only encouraged bad behavior. When one carrot didn't work, we offered another. Now we are facing the consequences of the failed Clinton administration policies.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: Is it -- is that what is happening right now?
BIDEN: Let's take a look at the facts, Miles.
During the period that President Clinton was president, for eight years, not one ounce of plutonium, the stuff of which they made their bomb, was produced. Not one.
The international community was in there. They were in there with cameras and lights and inspectors.
Now, what happened?
Along came the Bush administration. They said they weren't going to continue this policy of engagement and what happened?
You see now a bomb having been tested. That's a plutonium bomb. All the plutonium was produced under this administration.
Had it been a uranium-based bomb, a highly enriched uranium-based bomb, they maybe could argue that. Because the real criticism of the Clinton administration is while the Koreans were keeping their deal on no plutonium and nuclear weapons, they were over here sneaking, trying to figure out how to build a different kind of bomb.
They didn't build that different kind of bomb. The bomb they built was one that happened on the president's watch.
And what has the president's plan?
For the first two years he got in office, he farmed out our foreign policy to our neighbors. He said we won't talk, let them go and talk. Then he finally came along and said OK, we'll talk as long as the other six parties talk. Then when the Koreans said they want to talk to us alone, they said no, we're not going to talk at all. We're interested in regime change.
Now, look, these Koreans are bad guys. Had we gone a different way, it might have ended up exactly where we are. But one thing for sure -- the plan this president has announced from the day he came to office has been a failure we regard to North Korea.
And unless we do two things -- one, we get in league with China -- and China has a little more gumption to impose sanctions -- and we talk, that's the combination that is needed. If we don't do those two things, I think we don't have many good options.
O'BRIEN: All right, we've got to end it there.
Senator Joe Biden, thanks for your time.
BIDEN: Thank you.
O'BRIEN: Betty.
NGUYEN: Miles, a...
BIDEN: Thank you very much, Miles.
O'BRIEN: All right.
NGUYEN: Yes.
A rare early October snowstorm today dropped up to -- get this -- two feet of snow from the Great Lakes all the way to New York. Schools, well, they're closed today in Buffalo, New York. The snow has even knocked out tree limbs and power lines. More than 220,000 customers are each other electricity in western New York State. And yesterday, Buffalo set a new record for the snowiest October day in the 137-year history of the Weather Service.
Now to Michigan. Plenty of snow there. It was just coming down yesterday. In fact, Detroit set a record with the earliest measured snow. And today's game three of the American League championship series between the Tigers and Oakland, well, that's been moved up to 4:30 to keep fans from -- what else -- freezing.
So, if you're headed out the door today, let's get a check on this weather outside -- Chad, I'm kind of scratching my head, because earlier this week, there was a report that we were going to have a milder winter. It's not even winter yet and we're seeing snow like this.
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Never trust a long range forecast.
Actually, no, the mild -- the mild winter actually doesn't start until December 1st and it ends the end of February. That's meteorological winter. Those are the three months. So this doesn't count. Maybe it will be the coldest fall of all time. Who knows? (WEATHER REPORT)
NGUYEN: Well, coming up, Hewlett-Packard deals with its spying scandal by making a big change at the top. Andy explains in Minding Your Business. That is next on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: The stock option scandal claims a few more victims, proving once again, if there's an option to tell, an option story, Andy will exercise it.
ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Oh, very good.
O'BRIEN: Andy Serwer is here.
SERWER: That was very good. I've got -- yes, the corporate crime report. You definitely need a scorecard to play here, folks, because it's just more and more people every day. Three more executives out in this wave of stock option scandals. Three top executives. That would be, actually, four, because there's three -- see, I can't even keep track here.
Three top executives at technology company Boston Communications Group and one employee at Sanmina, which is the technology contractor in San Jose.
That brings our total to 28 individuals who have been dismissed in this wave of scandals and more than 100 companies are being investigated right now. A hundred companies. And, you know, we thought all this ended in the wake of Enron and WorldCom, but...
O'BRIEN: Oh, yes.
SERWER: And now we're moving on to another one, H.P. Hewlett- Packard has hired a new chief ethics officer.
O'BRIEN: Jeff Skilling?
SERWER: No.
O'BRIEN: No?
SERWER: He's not going to be available very soon.
O'BRIEN: Oh, that's right.
Well, he could do it -- he could telecommute.
SERWER: Yes, that's right -- a gentleman named John Hawk from NCR, which is where CEO Mark Hurd comes from. This has got to be the third toughest job in America, I would say, the chief ethics officer at H.P. after the president and the mayor of New York, wouldn't you think?
O'BRIEN: It's a tough job, yes. SERWER: He only is up from here, though, right?
O'BRIEN: Well, that's true.
SERWER: I mean -- oh, I shouldn't say that. I don't want to jinx him.
O'BRIEN: You know, did they really need to fill that post just this moment is the question?
SERWER: Yes, I mean...
O'BRIEN: Yes.
SERWER: ... why don't you just hold it? And, you know, it's a job with a big salary and they probably just didn't need to do that at this moment.
And yet another one bites the dust here, the CEO of Home Store, which is an online real estate firm, sentenced to 15 years in prison. Stuart Wolff is going to be doing some time. And let's just hear what he was guilty of -- insider trading, lying to company accountants and federal regulators and conspiracy in a scheme to inflate online ad revenues.
That's a nice little ledger there, isn't it?
O'BRIEN: I'd say that's a ledger.
All right, well, that's a tawdry tale, indeed.
SERWER: It certainly is.
O'BRIEN: What's next?
SERWER: Next, we're going to be talking about New York City and the closing of a landmark rock and roll club. Hey, it's Friday.
O'BRIEN: All right. That's the big 10 business approach once again.
SERWER: It sure is.
O'BRIEN: Coming up, what if terrorists got their hands on a nuclear weapon like they might possibly could from North Korea?
Would the U.S. be ready for an attack?
We'll take a look at that.
Plus, the fateful journey of Yankees pitcher Cory Lidle. I followed that flight path that led to that dramatic crash the other day and I'll show you firsthand how challenging that flight was.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Welcome back to the program. I'm Miles O'Brien.
NGUYEN: And I'm Betty Nguyen in for Soledad O'Brien today.
Let's take a look at our news wall. Here are some of the stories that we are following for you this morning.
O'BRIEN: Sanctions against North Korea on the table at the United Nations today, but Japan acting on its own, approving wide- ranging sanctions against Pyongyang already..
NGUYEN: The chairman of a congressional page program testifying today before the House Ethics probe. He says he confronted Foley about his inappropriate e-mails a year ago.
O'BRIEN: And a rare early October snowstorm dumping historic snow on parts of upstate New York.
(WEATHER REPORT)
NGUYEN: The North Korean nuclear threat is something we want to talk about now. Japan not waiting for the U.N. Security Council. The Japanese cabinet today approved wide-ranging sanctions against its neighbor. It is shutting the door on North Korea. No imports, no exports. Also, it is refusing to allow any North Korean government officials to travel to Japan for six months. Meanwhile, the Bush administration wants the Security Council to approve sanctions against Pyongyang today.
Well, this talk about the North Korean nuclear threat raises the question about nuclear weapons in general. Is the U.S. prepared for a nuclear attack delivered, perhaps, in the back of a van or a truck?
Well, CNN homeland security correspondent Jeanne Meserve takes a look at just that.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHAM DALLAS, UNIVERSITY OF GEORGIA: This right here is your plug. This is uranium plug, uranium 235. That's all you need.
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: If terrorists or a rogue nation got that material, Cham Dallas says detonating a small nuclear weapon like this mock-up in a city like Washington, D.C. would be a snap.
Models indicate 60,000 people would die immediately, another 80,000 in the days and weeks to come. Much of the infrastructure needed to respond would be destroyed in the blast. The green triangles represent government buildings; the H's, hospitals.
DALLAS: I'm not certain one can ever be completely ready for a nuclear weapon medical response. It's so overwhelming.
MESERVE: Faced with that reality, the U.S. government has focused on finding nuclear materials and devices before they are used. Seventy-seven percent of containers arriving at the nation's ports, and 92 percent of those crossing land borders, are scanned for radiation.
But alarms go off on harmless materials -- ceramic toilets, in this case -- and the machines cannot detect radiologic materials shielded by lead.
RANDY LARSEN, INSTITUTE FOR HOMELAND SECURITY: Putting detectors in seaports and landports is like a gold line defense. It's not a very high probability of success.
MESERVE: The next generation of nuclear detectors will, if all goes as planned, distinguish between harmful and harmless radiological materials, detect shielding and be portable. The Department of Homeland Security is also planning to ring detectors around New York and a handful of other major U.S. cities, and it hopes to screen more containers in foreign ports before shipment to the U.S.
(on camera): Will detection ever be fail safe?
VAYL OXFORD, DEPT. OF HOMELAND SECURITY: Never. What we're looking for is a combination of layers of our defense.
MESERVE: That includes making sure nuclear material overseas does not fall into the wrong hands. But the former 9/11 Commission recently graded that effort insufficient, and a report to the president said intelligence efforts on proliferation urgently require improvement.
Jeanne Meserve, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: On Capitol Hill today, more key testimony in the Mark Foley page scandal. The man in charge of the page program, Illinois Republican John Shimkus says he confronted Foley last fall about his inappropriate e-mails to a page. Shimkus says the boy's parents did not want him to tell the other House members overseeing the program.
In New York City this morning, another big fire only blocks from that dramatic plane crash the other day. Look at these pictures. It's a three-alarm blaze. It was at a six-story building at 70th Street and Park Avenue, just a few blocks from that crash site. The building unoccupied, however. The fire doused in about three hours. One firefighter was treated for minor injuries.
The investigation into that high-rise plane crash in New York now, entering its final stages, at least the on scene portion. The scattered wreckage has been recovered. Residents now returning to their apartments, by and large. But the National Transportation Safety Board still hasn't figured out who was actually flying the plane, a lot of unanswered questions, whether it was Yankee pitcher Cory Lidle or flight instructor Tyler Stanger at the controls.
We do know a little bit of something about their flight path, based on radar records, and yesterday I had an opportunity to get in my plane with another flight instructor with me to help me out, Rich Bertoli (ph), and fly that flight path. And we learned a lot about what a challenging flight that was.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: 122, Charlie, Victor, (INAUDIBLE), northbound departure.
So basically what we're going to do here is we'll try to recreate the river portion of that flight.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
O'BRIEN: We'll go down the southern part, down south, the Hudson River, circle the lady, as they say, the Statue of Liberty, and then up the East River and turn back around to the south and back in.
OK. So here's the Hudson River. The Hudson River is a much more forgiving place to fly, isn't it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To some extent, Yes. You have more options, places to land. You circle the statue.
Head up the East River, 122, Charlie, Victor, then cross over the north end of Manhattan, back to New Jersey.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Charlie, Victor (INAUDIBLE) your request.
O'BRIEN: Now suddenly, the East River, when you approach the East River, it's quite evident it's a lot tighter. It's a tight little canyon corridor of air space, isn't it?
Now, we're in a different position. We're talking to controllers. They weren't. So they had to stay within the confines of this river. But I can see how tight it is to make a turn here.
This is a thrill. I mean, this really is a thrill, but it's also something that requires a lot of attention.
I'd be reluctant to come through here with just one pilot. Somebody to work the radios, another set of eyes and ears. I just think that this is -- this is a fairly intense bit of flying here because of all the things that are going on.
We've gone through La Guardia airspace twice, Newark airspace. We've got JFK over there. This is a busy little piece of airspace, to be sure.
This is pretty much the turn they would have been trying to make, only lower. And it's a very, very tight turn. That is...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wow!
O'BRIEN: ... that is a box canyon, is what that is.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're absolutely right.
O'BRIEN: So what you have to consider here is we're at 2,000 feet. That was about double the altitude they were at, and we were -- so we weren't really boxed in by that canyon as they were. And even then, I can see, I can see the kind of situation they were in, depending on how much speed they had, exactly what the wind was doing, which was blowing them toward Manhattan. They were in a -- in a situation where they really had no place to go.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Calling towers, 122, Charlie, Victor, transit to Teterboro, landing. Straight in for 27 and 43 miles -- 122, Charlie, Victor.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: Bottom line is that East River portion of the corridor -- the Hudson River is one thing. You can fly down and there's no deadend at either end. It's just a straight-through corridor. This East River portion really was designed to allow helicopters to fly to and from -- there's a helipad there, and there's a sea plane base as well, allows them to take off and land without having to be in direct contact with controllers. And, you know, people say, well, is that even safe? Well, if you overtax the controllers, that's not safe, either. So, in a certain sense, allowing traffic to look out for each other in a certain place is a good idea. Is it a good idea to fly a little plane in there on a sightseeing basis?
NGUYEN: It's such a tight area...
O'BRIEN: It's such a tight area, yes.
NGUYEN: ... it seems, Miles. And then you say there's a deadend, so you essentially have to turn around?
O'BRIEN: You have to make that turn.
NGUYEN: Even in that tight area?
O'BRIEN: Unless you're talking to controllers, where they'll let you go over to Central Park or into La Guardia airspace. But in that case, they were not talking to controllers asking for that permission.
NGUYEN: Oh, goodness. All right, well, that was a great look at the situation there. We'll probably be following this investigation. In fact, not probably -- we will be -- as well as many of the other stories on the weekend, here at CNN.
Let's go live now to Atlanta and my partner on the weekend in the morning, T.J. Holmes.
Good morning, T.J.
T.J. HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And good morning, Betty. I guess I've been doing something wrong here. Only my second week, and what do you? You run off and and exchange me for another anchor.
NGUYEN: It wasn't on purpose, T.J.
HOLMES: Yes, no worries, no worries. Miss you here in Atlanta, hope to see you...
O'BRIEN: She's in good hands. Don't worry.
HOLMES: She's in good -- I know she is, Miles. I know she is. But guys, this weekend we're going to be talking about the power of a pen pal. We'll show you what happens when America's school children reach out to the men and women serving in Iraq. This is a war story that will actually warm your heart instead of all -- some of the terrible stories we often hear out of the war zone.
Also, we're going to be talking about another superstar adopting a baby from the developing world. But don't have the fame and money of Madonna? And I'm assuming you do not. So what's it like to try and bring a new family member into your home? An expert is going to explain how hard that can be.
Also, reality meets fiction on the streets of L.A. and its crime caper novels. I'll speak talk with bestseller author Michael Connolly about his newest work, "Echo Park." And taking the pulse, the political pulse, of America. We'll run down the week's top developments and explain how they could affect midterm elections just 25 days away. That, plus live reports on the morning's top stories beginning 7:00 Eastern on Saturday and Sunday.
Miles, by all means, send her back to us.
NGUYEN: Well, don't you worry, T.J. I'm hopping on a plane right after this. I'll be right back. See you tomorrow.
HOLMES: See you soon, Betty.
NGUYEN: And coming up, we will meet a couple young filmmakers who took on the serious subject of atomic weapons of all things. And get this, they are just 14 years old. But one of their movies has already won awards, and even gotten the attention of the United Nations. That's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NGUYEN: Well, the standoff with North Korea continues over its nuclear ambitions. Two high schoolers in Illinois are taking on the high-minded and very serious topic of nuclear armageddon. Stephen Sotor and Trace Gaynor wrote and produced the documentary "Genie in a Bottle Unleashed."
Now it's won a top prize at the Chicago International Children's Film Festival, and they join us now live from Oak Brook, Illinois to talk about this great movie.
Steven and Trace, welcome to the show.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hello.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi.
NGUYEN: Well, Trace, let me start with you, because it's not every day two teenagers get together and say, hey, you know what, we're going to do a movie about the atomic bomb, how it was created, how it was developed, and then eventually how it was dropped on Japan.
So how did you guys come up with this?
STEPHEN SOTOR, STUDENT FILMMAKER: Well, we learned a little bit about it in school, like just enough to kind of perk our interests, and my mom, who previously worked at an art museum, met Mark Tell (ph), who the person who made "The Dooms Day Clock," which is pretty much the symbol for, like, counts down the minutes until the end of the world, and so she had a big involvement with the atomic bomb because her husband actually worked on it.
NGUYEN: And so she pretty much opened the door, because you really talked to a lot of the leaders on this Manhattan Project. Were you surprised about the access that two teenagers could actually get?
SOTOR: Yes, definitely. It was a really shocking thing that they, you know, just kind of accepted to do it with no fee.
TRACE GAYNOR, STUDENT FILMMAKER: Martell was really our publicity. She opened up to everyone, and that really surprised me.
NGUYEN: Because she was the key to all of this.
Steven, let me talk to you, because you do a lot of the filming. This is a 16-minute short documentary which took a year of shooting. When you talk about coming up with the idea of a genie and unleashing it, and I know you've said I don't like to toot my own horn, but actually that was your idea, wasn't it?
SOTOR: Yes, I kind of came up with the genie and based it off the title from the phrase we heard, and it just kind of seemed to fit. And we found the perfect person, my cousin, because he's really funny and kind of an outgoing guy.
NGUYEN: So you wrote your cousin into this genie role, who lives with two cats and likes to cook pasta. I guess that's a little bit of the comedy in the movie. But it's really a serious movie, to teach children, teenagers about the destruction of this bomb. What's the message here?
SOTOR: Well, it's just to, you know, kind of say that this shouldn't be happening again, and it caused this much devastation, and no one will want to bring that upon anybody.
And about the comic relief, we kind of intended it for children, like, mainly kids our age, younger and even adults. So we thought, you know, kind of keep them interested, we made it a little funny.
NGUYEN: Well, there's some really interesting scenes in this. And in fact, you say it was for children, but adults have really welcomed this short documentary. In fact, you're invited to the United Nations, where they did a screening of it. You got a standing ovation, and immediately they were asking for a screening, a second screening.
Steven, that had to have felt really good.
SOTOR: Yes, it felt great, just to see all these big people clapping.
NGUYEN: Well, Trace, this isn't your first film together. You've got another one in the works. Just quickly, tell me what you're going to tackle next.
GAYNOR: We're planning to do a film of peace, and we're trying to get some pretty good interviews for it. We're trying to talk to President Carter and possibly even Bono.
NGUYEN: You are shooting very high for this. But you know what, you've got to shoot for the stars to get it, don't you?
GAYNOR: Yes.
NGUYEN: Much luck to both of you. It's a great short film, and obviously it's getting rave reviews. Thanks for spending a little time with us today.
GAYNOR: Thank you very much.
SOTOR: Nice talking to you.
NGUYEN: Sure -- Miles.
O'BRIEN: We're going to be hearing from those kids, aren't we? Wow! Impressive.
NGUYEN: Oh, yes.
O'BRIEN: Coming up, it may be one of the biggest real estate scams in U.S. history. People in one small town reportedly bilked out of as much as $80 million. We'll explain how it all unfolded, next on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Welcome back to the program. More proof now that your mother was right. If it sounds too good to be true, it is. Some folks in an investment club in tiny Martinsville, Virginia, got taken, apparently, by a huge mortgage scam to the tune -- get this -- $80 million.
CNN's Gerri Willis is here with the grim details.
Hello, Gerri.
GERRI WILLIS, CNN PERSONAL FINANCE EDITOR: That's right. Hi, there, Miles. Good to see you. You know, most people know to be on the lookout for strangers trying to scam them. But these people in Martinsville learned the hard way that sometimes you have to watch out for your friends and neighbors.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILLIS (voice-over): Drive along Highway 220 through the rolling hills of southwest Virginia, and you'll find the quiet town of Martinsville. It's a town filled with hard-working people like Kelvin Thompson. Thompson and his family were going through a difficult time a couple of years ago. His wife Brenda was out of work. So when Brenda's hairdresser and a local minister approached him with a real estate investment plan where he didn't have to put up any money, it seemed like a good way to make a little extra.
KELVIN THOMPSON, VICTIM OF ALLEGED MORTGAGE FRAUD: I trusted them. I mean, I honestly trusted these people.
WILLIS: Kelvin signed some documents and waited for the promised money to come rolling in. But a year later, when he went to the bank to for a loan to help buy Christmas gifts, he was stunned.
THOMPSON: I couldn't go to my credit union and borrow $1,000 because I have five foreclosures.
WILLIS: Thompson found that he had somehow become the owner of five homes in Indianapolis. A lawsuit filed in June by Countrywide Home Loans alleges that Sharon Penn, who styled hair in her basement, and her mother, Buelah Penn, the local minister, were involved in a mortgage fraud scheme, along with at least 14 others.
Countrywide claims people working with the Penns bought homes in Indianapolis and had them appraised for tens of thousands more than they were worth. Then, using false mortgage applications, they sold the homes to their unsuspecting recruits for the inflated price, pocketed the difference and never told the members of their club anything about the sale. So the homes went into default, ruining the credit of all of the duped homeowners.
Beulah and Sharon Penn declined our request for an interview. In a court-filed response to the lawsuit by Countrywide in which she is named as a defendant, Sharon Penn denied all allegations of fraud.
Thompson is working with the mortgage companies to sell the homes and get rid of the debt, but his credit is ruined, and he says he can't find a lawyer to help fix it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WILLIS: So no criminal charges have been filed in the case. Law enforcement agencies would not comment on whether they're investigating, but several alleged victims told CNN they have been in contact with police and the FBI.
O'BRIEN: What did they think they were signing? WILLIS: Well, you know, I think they didn't really understand what they were doing. Specifically these people thought they were joining a club to invest in real estate. But at the end of the day, they ended up having their names on mortgages they didn't even know about.
O'BRIEN: SO they gave away their identities and the allegation is they were misused.
WILLIS: They gave away their identities, and the only reason they were really willing to do it is because friends and neighbors got them involved. These people probably never would have been scammed by a group of outsiders.
O'BRIEN: Wow. Gerri Willis. That's a tough story. And a good lesson for us all out there.
Thank you very much.
WILLIS: That's right.
NGUYEN: It is a good lesson.
Hey, coming up, another big day in the Mark Foley ethics investigation. We are going to go live to Capitol Hill for a look at who's in the hot seat today.
But first, here's CNN's Valerie Morris with today's edition of "Life After Work."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VALERIE MORRIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Sculpting is more than just a casual hobby for 64-year-old Jean Dibner.
JEAN DIBNER, RETIREE: It's such a part of who I am. It's not what I do, it's who I am.
MORRIS: Ten years ago, Dibner started taking night classes while she was still working as a senior executive in the high-tech industry.
DIBNER: I knew the moment I touched play that something magical had happened. A very encouraging teacher who took me aside after I'd taken my first class and said, "You are where many people are after they've been working at it for five or ten years."
MORRIS: Dibner took an early retirement package in 1999 and started sculpting full time. Success was soon to follow, as she won several awards and gained national recognition.
DIBNER: I think people of my age have a great deal of wisdom and they have a story they want to tell. So I'm commenting on the incredible gift we have of life.
Wow, is that beautiful!
MORRIS: Dibner also shares her passion with students, teaching classes one day a week at her Boston home.
DIBNER: I know how important this aspect of my life is for me, and it gives me a great deal of pleasure to open that up for other people.
MORRIS: Valerie Morris, CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Good morning. Don't be superstitious.
NGUYEN: No.
O'BRIEN: It's Friday the 13th, October 13th. I'm Miles O'Brien.
NGUYEN: Ooh, a little Freaky Friday action for you today. Good morning, everybody. I'm Betty Nguyen, in for Soledad O'Brien.
O'BRIEN: Let's get right to the news wall and our top story this morning.
What to do about North Korea? Japan wants one thing, the U.N. wants another. Can everyone find middle ground on sanctions against the north?
NGUYEN: We're also following these stories.
The congressman in charge of the page program takes his turn in the hot seat before an ethics panel on the Mark Foley scandal.
O'BRIEN: Nobel Peace Prize awarded in Oslo, Norway, a few hours ago. We'll tell you about the winner.
NGUYEN: And October surprise. An early season snow storm. Well, it shuts down schools, it downs trees, even knocks out power to tens of thousands of people in upstate New York.
(WEATHER REPORT)
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