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Secretary of Rice Visits Asia; U.S. Troops Facing Violence in Iraq; Foley to Name Priest He Says Abused Him; Latest Polls Bad for Incumbents; GOP Focuses on Missouri Senate Race; Study: Benefits of Eating Fish Outweigh Risks

Aired October 18, 2006 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Kyra Phillips in the CNN World Headquarters in Atlanta.
DON LEMON, CO-HOST: And I'm Don Lemon.

Condoleezza Rice travels to Asia for tough talks on North Korea. CNN's Zain Verjee is the only network correspondent with the secretary of state.

PHILLIPS: Naming names. A disgraced ex-congressman says he'll identify the priest who he says abused him 40 years ago.

LEMON: Drug lords, terror groups, and the Mexico/Texas border. Who's really in control?

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

Punishing an enemy, protecting an ally. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice going on the offensive against North Korea and vowing to defend Japan. She is in Tokyo right now, and CNN's Zain Verjee is the only network correspondent who's traveling with her.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ZAIN VERJEE, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): The first stop in Asia, and perhaps the easiest, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice in Tokyo. Japan was disturbed by North Korea's nuclear tests and is on alert for a possible second. The message from Secretary Rice to Japan: don't worry, the U.S. stands with Japan. The defense alliance is strong.

CONDOLEEZZA RICE, SECRETARY OF STATE: The United States has the will and the capability to meet the full range -- and I underscore "full range" -- of its deterrent and security commitments to Japan.

VERJEE: Japan's pacifist constitution means it can't use armed force, and its own military is not up for battle, so Japan relies on the U.S. security umbrella to defend it from threats.

North Korea's nuclear test appears to have pushed the two allies even closer.

ROBERT DUJARRIC, NATIONAL INSTITUTE FOR PUBLIC POLICY: The Japanese government and most Japanese experts believe that Japan's security is entirely dependent on a strong and -- stronger relationship with the United States.

VERJEE: More than 35,000 U.S. troops are stationed in Japan. And underlining that commitment may help avert a nuclear arms race in this part of Asia.

TARO ASO, JAPANESE FOREIGN MINISTER: There is no need to arm ourselves with nuclear weapons either for Japan's own defense. We have this mutual defense treaty with the United States.

VERJEE: While on the three-nation tour, Secretary Rice is also looking for assurances that the U.N. Security Council resolution will be enforced. She's focusing on measures like the inspection of ships to prevent North Korea from transferring or getting nuclear materials.

Japan has already imposed unilateral sanctions on North Korea, banning imports and exports and banning North Korean ships.

(on camera) China and South Korea may prove harder for Secretary Rice to persuade. According to regional analysts, neither wants to push North Korea so hard that it collapses and they are left to pick up the pieces.

Zain Verjee, CNN, Tokyo.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: The fight for Iraq this week has especially costly for U.S. Troops. Five separate incidents yesterday. Ten American service members dead. This month may wind up the deadliest yet for the mission in Iraq.

CNN's Arwa Damon is in Baghdad -- Arwa.

ARWA DAMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, that's right, yesterday was a deadly day for U.S. forces operating here. Ten killed in Iraq's most dangerous provinces. All of those in the central area of the country. The capital Baghdad, Diayala province to the north and the ever volatile al Anbar province to the west, a combination of small arms and roadside bombs.

Those two main insurgent weapons continue to be the deadliest used against U.S. forces here. But this also came at a time when Iraq's ministry of interior announcing a shakeup.

The ministry of interior has been plagued by accusations of being infiltrated by death squads are and militias. The new minister of interior, Jawad al-Bolani, vowing when he took office five months ago that he was going to clean it up.

What we are seeing now is that two Iraqi national police brigades have been removed from the streets of Iraq, their commanders relieved of duty, given other posts within the ministry.

Additionally, 3,000 commandos and employees of the ministry have been fired, for reasons ranging from bribery all the way to human rights violations and being accused of being ineffective out on the streets of Iraq.

This perhaps Kyra is the first step that Iraqis can look to and say that their government has taken in terms of fulfilling one of its promises to secure this country, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: And while that's all been going on, you had spent time embedded with U.S. troops within the past week as they collected weapons, unbelievable amount of weapons. You were even telling me within that specific operation that the guys already had lost four of their own and 20 of them were wounded, just in two weeks since that operation began.

How do they deal with that? How are they dealing with morale, when this is just a constant, constant situation that they're dealing with?

Reporter: Kyra, it's very interesting and it's very fascinating, the way that these guys are able to go out there every day, knowing that each step could be their last, knowing that what appears to be a peaceful scenario can literally change in an instant.

And they develop sort of a black humor about it, and that's how they go out into the streets. It's a black humor that really -- at the same time, though, does provide them morale, does provide them the ability to laugh and joke with one another.

When they do come back to base and they're all back safe and sound, they talk about what they did that day, the weapons caches that they did find.

And that area that you're referring to is just south of Baghdad. It's a very volatile area. It's the fields and farmlands just outside of Yusufiya, an area that we have coined the Triangle of Death.

The specific area has not seen a permanent U.S. presence for the better part of three years. And when the guys come home after a long day trudging through these fields and farmlands, through the mud, looking for these deadly roadside bombs, they come back and they're joking about everything that they found.

And they also at the same time talk about home, and they talk about really the No. 1 topic of conversation is the meals that they would like to eat when they finally get back to the states, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Doesn't surprise me. Arwa Damon, thanks.

LEMON: Mark Foley is naming names. Shortly after he quit Congress over his online contacts with teenage boys, Foley had more stunning news. He said he'd been molested by a clergyman decades ago. Now he plans to reveal that person's name.

CNN national correspondent Susan Candiotti reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Whether he can prove it is one thing. But Mark Foley's attorney wants skeptics to know his client's allegations are not trumped up.

GERRY RICHMAN, MARK FOLEY'S CIVIL ATTORNEY: It's going to be very clear in the coming days that it is a fact, as opposed to any possible allegations that it's a fantasy or something made up for political purposes.

CANDIOTTI: It was about two weeks ago that Foley first made his bombshell allegation.

DAVID ROTH, MARK FOLEY'S CRIMINAL ATTORNEY: Mark has asked that you be told that between the ages of 13 and 15 he was molested by a clergyman.

CANDIOTTI: But who is the alleged molester and where is he now? The archdiocese wants to know. It says Foley's claims have put a cloud of suspicion over all its priests.

MARY ROSS ACOSTA, ARCHDIOCESE OF MIAMI: Common sense must come in here that we need to know who it is, prior to us, you know, being able to provide the counseling for that person.

CANDIOTTI: Foley's lawyer says he'll turn over the name at the right time in a, quote, "sensitive way."

RICHMAN: Mark Foley is intending to work with the archdiocese of Miami and greater West Palm Beach for the purpose of revealing the name of the particular pries who was involved so that the archdiocese can then deal appropriately with the issue.

CANDIOTTI: Foley grew up in south Florida. As a youngster, he served as an altar boy. He attended Catholic grade school and high school, but later transferred to a public high.

Foley's lawyer says he's talked with the Palm Beach state attorney's office, but no criminal charges will be filed. The allegations are too old. The alleged abuse happened more than 35 years ago, well past the statute of limitations. His attorney says Foley will accept the archdiocese's offer of free counseling.

Susan Candiotti, CNN, Miami.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Autopsy results in the turnpike murders in Florida now. A local sheriff says that all four members of the Escobedo family were shot to death many times over. Their bodies were found last Friday, north of Port St. Lucie, about an hour's drive north of their home.

Two St. Lucie County sheriff's deputies are working with police in Brownsville, Texas, now, where the family lived before moving to Florida just a few months ago.

If you have any information, you can call 1-800-273-tips. Once again, 1-800-273-TIPS. And tracking the credit. Police say a credit card used to buy gas in Smithsboro, Illinois, has been traced to a Kentucky couple who are believed to be on the run with a 9-month-old boy. There's also surveillance camera footage of a man thought to be the child's mother's boyfriend.

Renee Terrell and Christopher Luttrell are wanted in connection with the beating death of social worker Boni Frederick. Her body was found in Terrell's home Monday.

Terrell's son, who was in foster care because of neglect, is believed to have been abducted by his mother. If you have any information, call 877-AMBER-17. Once again, 877-AMBER-17.

LEMON: Winning over hart hearts and minds in the heartland.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GARY NODLER (R), MISSOURI STATE SENATE: This race will be decisive in determining who controls the United States Senate in the next term.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: It is a race to watch. CNN's John King reports from Missouri ahead in the NEWSROOM.

PHILLIPS: Plus, feeling stuck in the middle, as in the middle class? Well, you're not alone. And a new poll shows why Washington ought to be paying attention. We've got numbers ahead in the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: So whatever happened to the happy medium? When it comes to America's middle class, there's not much happiness at all these days. CNN's Bill Schneider has some new numbers that aren't good news for Washington incumbents this election year.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BILL SCHNEIDER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Many Americans feel like the man who is about to drown crossing a stream that, on the average, is three feet deep. On the average, the economy's doing well.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The budget numbers are proof that pro-growth economic policies work.

SCHNEIDER: But not for people who feel themselves slipping under water.

MARIO CUOMO (D), FORMER NEW YORK GOVERNOR: The people who are really doing well in this country now are the very wealthy people and not the working middle class. That's slipping. SCHNEIDER: In a new CNN poll conducted by the Opinion Research Corporation, a majority of Americans say the American dream has become the impossible dream for most people.

Those with no college degree have lost faith in the American dream. College graduates still believe. But only about 30 percent of Americans have finished college.

There's a lot of middle class frustration out there, and it's focused on Washington. Even Republicans are running against Washington.

MICHAEL STEELE (R), MARYLAND SENATE CANDIDATE: I know what you're feeling. Washington has no clue what's going on in your life.

SCHNEIDER: About three quarters of the public sees Congress as out of touch with average Americans. About the same as in 1994, the last time voters overthrew the majority in Congress.

But it's not just Congress. Nearly 80 percent of Americans feel big business has too much influence over the Bush administration. Democrats are nearly unanimous in that sentiment.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In Washington, we have a White House that has rolled over for the oil companies.

SCHNEIDER: As it happens, most Republicans also feel that way, a rare instance of bipartisan agreement.

(on camera) What's driving anti-Washington sentiment? Not just scandals, but also the view that the people we send to Washington are not doing their jobs. They're not solving problems, like energy, health care, illegal immigration and wages, and Iraq.

Bill Schneider, CNN, Kansas City.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Twenty days before election day, every race is important. Every district, a battleground. But some battles are fiercer. Some races, more important than others.

As Republicans fight to keep their majorities in Congress, the Senate race in Missouri could be decisive.

CNN's John King is there.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you turn your forms in if you filled out a 72 hour form?

JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR/CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Southwest Missouri is conservative country, the Bible Belt. The stakes of this year's Senate race, lost on no one.

NODLER: This race will be decisive in determining who controls the United States Senate in the next term.

KING: Introduction over, incumbent Republican Jim Talent quickly draws distinctions he thinks will make a difference in these parts.

SEN. JIM TALENT (R), MISSOURI: I believe marriage is a relationship between a man and a woman. And so I supported the marriage amendment to the United States Constitution. My opponent didn't.

I supported the ban on partial birth abortions. She's opposed to that.

CLAIRE MCCASKILL (D), MISSOURI SENATORIAL CANDIDATE: Go Cardinals.

KING: State auditor Claire McCaskill lost a close race for governor two years ago because big margins in St. Louis and Kansas City are not enough to offset a dismal showing in rural communities.

MCCASKILL: Big mistake. I've been to rural Missouri constantly in this race. I've listened. They're frustrated.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have a moment? I could ask you a couple questions.

KING: At GOP headquarters in conservative Joplin, calls to Republican voters do turn up evidence some are looking elsewhere this time.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you support Senator Jim Talent or Auditor Claire McCaskill for the United States Senate?

KING: At Joplin's First Presbyterian Church, Pastor Cliff Mansley predicts talk of major conservative angst will be proven wrong come election day.

REV. CLIFF MANSLEY, FIRST PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH: There are going to be some people who are frustrated with what they see, but I think that's a fairly small percentage of people in terms of how they vote.

KING: But in this race, and similar Senate contests in Ohio, Virginia and Tennessee, just a small shift in rural communities could be enough for Democrats, and Talent's sharpening attacks reflect GOP jitters.

At a debate Monday night in conservative Springfield, he demanded McCaskill release her husband's tax returns.

TALENT: We have reason to believe that maybe she and her husband haven't paid all them.

KING: McCaskill called it a desperate smear.

Four years ago, Talent and the president campaigned shoulder to shoulder in Southwest Missouri. This year, not one mention of Mr. Bush in the senator's 15-minute stump speech. TALENT: Because I'm -- he's not running in the race.

KING: It's one of those little differences that could affect the margins in the Bible Belt and the balance of power in Washington.

(on camera) So consider Missouri the Republican Senate firewall. The GOP figures if it can hold this seat, it is all about certain to hold its Senate majority. And as a result this pouring in significant resources for late campaign TV ads and an aggressive voter turnout effort.

John King, CNN, Kansas City, Missouri.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: John King and Bill Schneider, both part of the best political team on television. And they'll be joining Lou Dobbs tonight from Kansas City for a special town hall meeting called "War on the Middle Class". That's at 7 Eastern, only on CNN.

PHILLIPS: Well, we all know that seafood is part of a balanced diet. But how much is too much and which seafoods should you stay away from? Dr. Sanjay Gupta reports straight ahead in the NEWSROOM.

LEMON: Plus, we are watching the Dow. Our very own Susan Lisovicz is on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange.

SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Kyra and Don.

Well, the Dow is once again flirting with 12,000. The difference is that today the blue chips reached that milestone. I'll tell you why when NEWSROOM continues. You're watching CNN, the most trusted name in news.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Sorry, Charlie. Remember the old tuna commercials? After years of mixed messages, a new government report on seafood safety says the benefits of eating fish, shrimp or clams far outweigh the risks. Just don't go overboard.

Here's our Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A new study by the Institute of Medicine found that eating seafood twice a week has important health benefits, including reduced risk of heart disease and improved development of the brain. Seafood is high in protein, low in saturated fat and loaded with omega 3 fatty acids.

But there is a catch. Most fish contain some level of dioxins, PCBs and mercury. Mercury is of particular concern, because it's known to impede brain development.

Now that presents a quandary for pregnant women and young children about exactly how much fish to eat.

DR. WILLIAM HOGARTH, NATIONAL OCEANIC & ATMOSPHERIC ADMINISTRATION: We learned that the benefits of cardiovascular health from eating seafood, including farm fish, far outweigh the risk of cancer from environmental contaminants.

GUPTA: The study says women who could become pregnant and young children can eat up to 12 ounces of seafood a week without being concerned about mercury. Six ounces can be canned white tuna, although canned light tuna usually contains less mercury.

They should avoid fish high in mercury like shark, swordfish, king mackerel and tile fish.

MALDEN NESHEIM, INSTITUTE OF MEDICINE: Those who consume more than two servings per week should choose a variety of seafood to risk -- to reduce risk from exposure for contaminants from a single source.

GUPTA: There's also more evidence this week that fish reduces the risk of heart decease. Researchers from the Harvard School of Public Health found just eating one to two servings of fish a week reduces the risk of heart disease by 36 percent.

Bottom line, fish is safe and nutritious, but eat a variety and in moderation.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Well, it's an historic day on Wall Street. The Dow goes over 12,000 for the very first time. Susan Lisovicz joins us now from the floor of the New York Stock Exchange with the latest and all the hoopla.

Hey, Susan.

(STOCK REPORT)

PHILLIPS: I read it because you tell me to read it, Susan. So then I know the right questions to ask.

LISOVICZ: It's not that tough, I swear.

PHILLIPS: Susan Lisovicz, thanks so much.

LISOVICZ: You're welcome.

PHILLIPS: Well, what will North Korea do next? And will it start a nuclear arms race? That story straight ahead from the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: It's a firm reminder to Asia to stand firm on North Korea. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice is in Tokyo today, the first stop of a four-nation trip.

Her two goals are to make sure North Korea's neighbors enforce U.S. (sic) sanctions against Pyongyang; and to reassure Japan the U.S. will defend it against any North Korean aggression.

Rice says the world spoke with one voice at the U.N. last weekend.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICE: The resolution was passed very quickly, in record time for the United Nations, and so it's not surprising that there are a number of details to be worked out.

But I'd just like to make a couple points clear. First of all, the United States has no desire to escalate this crisis. In fact, we would like to see it deescalate. And the resolution 1718's principal aim is to do two things. First of all, to deal with the potential effects of North Korea trying to transfer materials or to obtain materials. That's why there is an embargo, as there is also an embargo on certain kinds of arms.

And it's the obligation of states under 1718 to make certain to use the tools that they have that that is not -- that that transfer is not happening.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Rice's trip also takes her to South Korea, China and Russia. The U.S. says China, North Korea's biggest trading partner is key to making sanctions work.

PHILLIPS: It leads the world or comes close in poverty, isolation, repression. Now might North Korea lead the region into a nuclear arms race? Some fear a second North Korean nuke test could be the tipping point for Pyongyang's non-nuclear neighbors.

CNN's Brian Todd reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Torches and fireworks in Pyongyang, another occasion for North Korea to take the world stage, as we get stronger indications of a second possible nuclear test. If that happens, experts warn an Asian arms race could follow.

JON WOLFSTAHL, CTR. FOR STRATEGIC & INTL. STUDIES: Japan is often at the top of most people's watch-list because they do have an advanced nuclear power program, peaceful program for energy production and it's believed they could build a nuclear weapon in a matter of months.

TODD: But analysts believe Japan may hold back for political reasons. The new prime minister has reinforced the government's stance against nuclear weapons and the nuclear taboo in Japan since Hiroshima is still a strong part of the national fabric. Next on the list weapons experts say, South Korea, possibly one to two years away from being able to make a workable nuclear bomb. Then, Taiwan, same timetable.

WOLFSTAHL: Taiwan in fact had a secret effort to build a nuclear weapons program back in the early 1980s. And when the U.S. government found out about it, they forced Taiwanese government to shut it down.

TODD: Taiwan would hold back, analysts say for fear that China would attack if it goes nuclear. Most experts believe the Asian powers won't have a knee jerk reaction to a second North Korean test, but they say other nations in another dangerous region are watching.

MICHAEL RUBIN, AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INST.: North Korea gets a nuclear bomb, so now Iran figures that it also has a right to. Iran develops a nuclear bomb or nuclear power and suddenly Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and even Yemen are talking about developing nuclear programs.

(on camera): One of them already is. Within the past few weeks, Egypt announced it may pursue nuclear energy for civilian purposes.

Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Brian Todd is part of the team covering the world for "THE SITUATION ROOM." Join Wolf Blitzer weekdays at 4:00 p.m. Eastern, then again, primetime at 7:00, only on CNN, the most trusted name in news.

Sunnis and Shiites, their struggle has simmered for centuries.

LEMON: And now is boiling over in Iraq. Do policymakers in Washington know one group from another? We'll see, ahead in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: War, clearly. Civil, hardly. Civil war, debatably. Though, at this point, even some who resisted that term for the war in Iraq are thinking again.

CNN's Tom Foreman takes a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As coalition forces have handed more control to the Iraqi military, insurgents have tested their strength. Violence has spiked. And so have the voices of international affair analysts, saying, now, a civil war is under way.

The Shia, the largest group of Iraqis, control the east and south. And they are fighting with the minority Sunnis, who control the west, and used to run everything under Saddam. And the Kurds are holding on in the north. MAJOR GENERAL DONALD SHEPPERD (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Just, some of it is ethnic hatred, if you will. But it's clearly, in my mind, some type of civil war. We're just afraid to say it.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You know, the -- I hear a lot of talk about civil war. I -- I'm concerned about that, of course.

FOREMAN: The administration hesitates to call it civil war, because coalition troops, while under constant fire, are keeping the Iraqi factions from massing soldiers, from gathering large quantities of arms, and launching broad offensives against each other, hallmarks of a classic civil war.

And, of course, there are political and security considerations.

(on camera): If full-scale, open civil war erupts, and fractures this fledgling democracy, it will certainly be seen a major defeat for the United States. And Iraq could well turn into a prime, long-term staging ground for terrorism.

(voice-over): So, why do some Iraqis seem hell-bent on rushing towards civil war? Besides centuries of conflict, there is a modern cause: oil.

If Iraq can ever stabilize and start pumping its oil at full capacity, it could become a wealthy nation. And no faction wants to see another one grab too much control of that asset.

SHEPPERD: The problem is, you have got oil in the north. You have got oil in the south. You have no oil in the west, where the Sunnis are.

FOREMAN: So, as coalition countries seem to be growing weary of the fighting, many Iraqis seem increasingly poised for a showdown on their country's future, whether that's called a civil war or not.

Tom Foreman, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Iraq's internal struggle, the still undeclared civil war, is hardly a new one. Shiite Muslims and Sunni Muslims have been at odds for almost 1,500 years. Do you know the difference? Jeff Stein calls it a gotcha question. He's the national security editor of "Congressional Quarterly," and the distinction is the topic of an op-ed piece that he wrote for "The New York Times."

Jeff, good to see you.

JEFF STEIN, "CONGRESSIONAL QUARTERLY": Thanks.

PHILLIPS: So are we in a civil war? Are we not in a civil war? Does everyone that understand the difference between the Sunni and the Shiite, at least those that should know, right, leaders involved with war planning and everything else that has to do with homeland security, you realized, not necessarily the case?

STEIN: Well, I don't care what you call it civil war, civil strife, a big breakup, it's a vicious war that's been going on for almost 1,500 years, as you said, between the Shia and the Sunni, which are the two major branches of Islam.

It's roughly akin to the big split in Christianity between Catholics and Protestants, who were at each other's throats for hundreds and hundreds of years, and in some cases, in northern Ireland, still are.

And what I found in my casual interviewing of top intelligence and congressional officials responsible for terrorism over the past several months, they don't know the difference between Sunni and Shia. And this is pretty astonishing to me.

PHILLIPS: And let's just give an example, because you made a number of random phone calls, you had interaction with a number of different types of leaders. This one, Representative Terry Everett, seven terms from Alabama, vice chairman of the House Intelligence Subcommittee on Technical and Tactical Intelligence.

You asked the representative what is the difference and this -- he said, "one's in one location, another's in another location. No, to be honest with you, I don't know. I thought it was differences in their religion, different families or something."

STEIN: Yes. Yes, you know, and this -- I don't call these people up cold and say, hey, you know, what's the difference between Sunnis and Shia? These are -- this is a question I ask at the end of lengthy interviews where I'm talking about intelligence issues.

I'm not an expert on Sunnis and Shia either, but I do write about intelligence every week. That's my beat. It's been my beat for 25 years. So to write intelligently about intelligence in the Middle East, I have to know something about Sunnis and Shia, who's on what side.

And, you know, when I asked that particular Congressman, Everett, and other members of Congress who are in a position of overseeing the intelligence agencies, and they don't know, it's pretty disturbing.

PHILLIPS: Isn't that frightening? That is disturbing. It's shocking.

STEIN: Yes, I suppose, although, you know, there are polls every year by the "National Geographic" and so on of high school and college seniors who can't find France on a map, so some people say that's good, but they don't.

PHILLIPS: No, you make a good point. But let's just take it to this level. There's one thing about what we're learning in high school and college and how we can sort of make up for that, right?

STEIN: Right. PHILLIPS: But these are individuals making tremendous decisions about our security and about the lives of men and women overseas that are dying on a daily basis. This blew me away as well. You even checked in a number of times with the FBI. You specifically talked to the chief of the bureau's new National Security Branch and he told you?

STEIN: Well, he told me -- I asked him which were -- what were the Iranians, were they Sunni or Shiite? And he thought for a minute and then he said, Sunni. Well, that's wrong. And that's very important to know.

PHILLIPS: Did he know al Qaeda? Did he know what al Qaeda was?

STEIN: Yes, he got that one right.

PHILLIPS: OK.

STEIN: He new al Qaeda. And, you know, he's not a stupid guy. In fact, he's a very distinguished agent with a long and distinguished career, and he at least did know that it was important to know the difference. And he got his footing after awhile, and started talk about the rivalry and how important it is, so basically he understood.

But, you know, I would expect that maybe someone at the Agricultural Department, a guy who's running the national security division of the FBI, should definitely know right away, right off hand, not quoting from the Koran, mind you, or the collected writings of Osama bin Laden, but the basic difference. You know, the Yankees and the Red Sox, which one is which, you know?

PHILLIPS: And Jeff ...

STEIN: The Mets and the Yankees, what league are they in?

PHILLIPS: ...and what we did, we put together a graphic, just so viewers would have a visual. Sunnis, 90 percent of Muslims. Stress traditions more than religious leaders. Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda are Sunni Muslims.

STEIN: Right.

PHILLIPS: Then you have Shiites. Fifteen percent of the world's Muslims. Believe authority handed down from Prophet Muhammad through bloodline. Hezbollah, Shiite, Iran, majority Shiite.

STEIN: Yes, and then there's splits within Sunniism that you have to understand to know anything about al Qaeda, really, or it helps.

PHILLIPS: So what's the fallout here? Do you think anything -- what type of response did you get from your article? Is there a shakeup at the FBI, a shakeup on the Hill? Anything happens?

STEIN: I've gotten more response to this piece, Kyra, than any other piece I've written in 30 years of writing about national security issues. It's been astounding. I get an e-mail about every five minutes from someone's who's read that piece. It's the most blogged piece at the "New York Times," for what it's worth.

PHILLIPS: You've got to do a follow-up.

STEIN: I guess, I don't think anybody's going to talk to me. They'll say no, thanks. Or maybe they're -- I like to think they're home studying, you know?

PHILLIPS: Yes, right, they've all enrolled for their Master's, Ph.D., right?

STEIN: Well, I gave one of the people I questioned who didn't know the answer at all, Jo Ann Davis of Virginia, she chairs a subcommittee which overseas the spying part of the intelligence agencies. And she hadn't a clue of who was who. In fact, she thought maybe al Qaeda was Sunni because it was more radical -- whatever that means.

So I said, well, can I call you back in a couple of weeks? I'll give you another chance at this, and she's a very, very good-natured lady. And she said, sure. So I called back about three weeks later because I was doing a follow-up column and she wouldn't talk to me so ...

PHILLIPS: Well, I'll tell you what. Since you mentioned it's one of the most clicked on stories on the Web site, you're getting tons of calls, you haven't had this much response ...

STEIN: Amazing.

PHILLIPS: ...in 30 years, I'll tell you what. If you do a follow-up, I want you to tell us so we can see if anything got better.

STEIN: You betcha, I will. Thank you.

PHILLIPS: Jeff Stein, love reading your stuff. Appreciate it.

STEIN: Thanks very much.

LEMON: All right. We have a developing story happening from New York. Let's go to Fredricka Whitfield for the details on this one -- Fred.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Don. Well, gruesome details -- I don't know if there's a delicate way of telling you about this story. But, first off, Kings County, Brooklyn, New York, that sets the scene delicately.

Seven funeral directors who have been linked to plundering corpses to harvest tissue and bones for surgical transplants have secretly pleaded guilty. This is the result of a rather lengthy investigation. It involves 122 count indictment dating back to February.

And through the Brooklyn District Attorney's Office, they are saying that these funeral directors have all agreed to cooperate in this probe. And, again, it would mean harvesting the tissue and bones from corpses without the family's consent and then sending them -- and selling them to biomedical supply companies.

There could be additional charges that come involving other funerals in other jurisdictions. The investigators say they'd like to put that out. And it may involve funeral homes in Manhattan, the Bronx, and in Rochester, New York.

I know a very gruesome story, but it's an investigation, nonetheless, that might help out many of the family members of these deceased people, because a lot of folks found out, you know, after the fact that their loved one's bodies had been handled in this manner. So some resolution to those being held responsible.

LEMON: Yes, it's really sad. And when, you know, I tossed to you I kind of stumbled there because I was reading the A.P. wire just before and I just couldn't believe it.

WHITFIELD: Yes, there's no easy way to tell this story.

LEMON: Absolutely. All right, Fredricka ...

WHITFIELD: OK.

LEMON: ...thank you very much for that.

PHILLIPS: Well, it sounded like a good idea on paper.

LEMON: But millions of tires off the coast of Florida turn into an underwater nightmare, threatening the environment they were intended to help. That story straight ahead in the CNN NEWSROOM.

PHILLIPS: Plus winter came early to Buffalo. Now it's Colorado's turn. More than a foot of snow makes travel treacherous. We'll dig for details straight ahead from the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: It's nice for skiers. Not necessarily for anyone else. A pre-winter storm dumped more than a foot of snow in the Colorado mountains yesterday. Snow fell so fast it covered tracks rescuers hoped to use to find a missing hunter. Searches resumed this morning for two missing hunters in two counties. One has been found. The snow knocked down power lines and tied up traffic. But resort owners hope it's a happy omen for a very big season.

Heavy rain has a deadly impact in Texas. So far, at least five deaths are to blame this week on thunderstorms and floods around Houston. The threat of high water continues. Flood warning is in effect for the west fork of the San Jacinto River until tomorrow.

(WEATHER REPORT)

LEMON: When the weather becomes the news, you can become a CNN correspondent. If you severe weather happening, send us an I-report. Go to CNN.com and -- stop laughing -- and click on I-report, or type in ireport@CNN.com on your cell phone and share your photos or your videos.

PHILLIPS: Well, in case you're wondering, old tires make very bad artificial reefs. It seemed like a good idea at the time, decades ago in south Florida. Now, well -- CNN's John Zarrella explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For decades now, retired ships have been given a second life: not floating on the top; sitting on the bottom as artificial reefs. Some well-intentioned people thought tires, once you got your 40,000 miles on them, could serve the same useful purpose.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They were inexpensive, they were durable, easy to handle. The one thing they weren't was stable.

ZARRELLA: But no one knew that 30 plus years ago, when right out there past those boats, about a mile off Ft. Lauderdale, bundles of tires were dumped to create an artificial reef. What they got instead was this: 70 feet down, tires scattered as far as you can see, two million of them. The nylon and steel straps that held them together had long ago disintegrated.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The tires turned out to be a bad idea. They're mobile. For some reason, things don't like to grow on them very well. Whether it's things leeching out of the rubber, we don't really know. But they don't work, is the bottom line.

ZARRELLA: The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration says tires didn't work well wherever they were used -- off California, the Gulf of Mexico, North Carolina and New Jersey. But those places don't have coral reefs. The tires off Ft. Lauderdale were dumped between two living reefs, and thousands of the tires moved by storms and currents now rest up against the corals.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Basically the lower slope of that reef is denuded of living things.

ZARRELLA: So, after 30 years, there's an urgency to get the tires up. The plan is to use Navy divers to collect them, put them in cargo nets and load them on U.S. army landing craft. For the Navy divers, it would be a training opportunity. For the state and county, it would be a huge savings over hiring commercial divers.

Six years ago, university professor Robin Sherman led a project to study clean-up options. A team of 80 volunteers removed 1,600 tires and recycled them. But within two months, the area was covered again.

ROBIN SHERMAN, NOVA SOUTHEASTERN UNIVERSITY: The tires were so mobile, so nearly neutrally buoyant, that they had moved with normal current and wave action and completely recovered the site that we had cleaned. ZARRELLA: It will be at least a year before full-scale clean-up begins and may take up to three years. And by the way, tires are no longer permitted for use as artificial reefs.

John Zarrella, CNN, Ft. Lauderdale.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: And you can see more of John Zarrella's stories on AMERICAN MORNING weekdays 6:00 to 9:00 Eastern time.

Now in Asia, on a mission.

LEMON: Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice looking to rally the region against North Korea. CNN has the only network correspondent traveling with Rice. Details ahead in the CNN NEWSROOM.

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