Return to Transcripts main page
American Morning
Condoleezza Rice Pressuring South Korea to Fully Enforce U.N. Sanctions Against North Korea; Violence in Iraq; Mark Foley Investigation
Aired October 19, 2006 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Let's get right to the nuclear crisis in North Korea.
Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice is in South Korea right now and she's pressing Seoul to fully enforce sanctions against the north.
Zain Verjee is the only television correspondent who is traveling with the secretary of state.
Zain, good morning.
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Soledad.
U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice really wants Seoul to enforce the U.N. Security Council resolution that essentially slapped sanctions on North Korea. She wants South Korea to take some real strong action and inspect North Korean ships going in and out of North Korea incase they're carrying nuclear -- incase they're carrying fissile material.
She also said earlier in a press conference that, look, she's not here to dictate the U.S. is coming to Seoul, they have ideas on exactly how cargo can be inspected. Secretary Rice also said the U.S. is not here in the region pushing for all these things to make things worse.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CONDOLEEZZA RICE, SECRETARY OF STATE: I want to emphasize again, the United States has no desire to do anything to escalate this situation. And so the idea that somehow we would want 1718 to be implemented in a way that escalates tensions on the Korean Peninsula, or on the high seas, for that matter, simply could not be more wrong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VERJEE: The question, though, now, Soledad, is what will South Korea do in practical terms? Will it squeeze North Korea really, really hard? That remains a question.
The South Korean foreign minister at a press conference earlier today said, "Yes, we signed on for sanctions, and that's exactly what we're going to do." But he was short on specifics.
One of the major concerns that South Korea has is that if you squeeze North Korea too hard, the regime will collapse, it will destabilize the region, and it will leave a big mess on the doorstep of South Korea, and it's going to be left to pick it up -- Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: At the same time, Zain, one would think, just because of proximity, and other issues, too, that the south would be so much more aggressive, wouldn't they?
VERJEE: Well, South Korea has a policy toward the north. And it's known as the Sunshine Policy that's really one of engagement with North Korea. They believe, you know, be nice to the regime, have it change its behavior, and eventually it may come around.
There are actually two projects that South Korea has really vested in the north, economic projects. There's a -- there's a tourist resort known as the Kungan (ph) Mountain Resort, the Diamond Mountain, that brings North Korea hundreds of millions of dollars in remittances. There's also another area in North Korea known as Kaesong. And in that area you have South Korean factories that are set up and they use cheap North Korean labor, and they do things like make garments and other types of clothing, as well as kitchen utensils and things like that.
So it's -- these two projects are very symbolic for South Korea. And many analysts that I spoke to here, Soledad, basically said that South Korea is not going to be giving up its engagement policy toward the North anytime soon.
S. O'BRIEN: Zain Verjee, the only television correspondent who is traveling with the secretary of state through Asia.
Zain, thanks.
Well, since North Korea conducted that nuclear test 11 days ago, President Bush has been very concerned about nuclear materials spreading from North Korea to terrorists. And he was asked how he would respond if that were to happen last night on ABC News.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC NEWS: So, are you saying then if North Korea sold nukes to Iran, or al Qaeda...
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They would be held to account.
STEPHANOPOULOS: What does that mean?
BUSH: Well, it's time to find out, George. One of the thing that's important for these world leaders to hear is -- is, you know, we use means necessary to hold them to account.
STEPHANOPOULOS: So if you got intelligence that they were about to have that kind of...
BUSH: Well, if they get -- if we get intelligence that they're about to transfer a nuclear weapon, we would stop the transfer and we would deal with the ships that were taking the -- or the airplane that was dealing with taking the material to somebody.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And if it happened you would retaliate?
BUSH: You know, it's a grave consequence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
S. O'BRIEN: And just this morning, the secretary of state, Condoleezza Rice, spoke with -- spoke about, rather, positive discussions with South Korea about trying to contain North Korea's nuclear material -- Miles.
M. O'BRIEN: The violence in Iraq is spiraling toward a grim record. Just this morning, another car bomb, a dozen dead, twice that number wounded in Mosul. Iraqi civilians now dying at a rate of 43 a day.
Meanwhile, another American soldier was killed in Anbar Province west of Baghdad. October is likely to be the deadliest month since the siege of Falluja two years ago.
A briefing now from Major General William Caldwell out of Iraq. Let's listen for a moment.
MAJ. GEN. WILLIAM CALDWELL, MULTINATIONAL FORCES SPOKESMAN: Iraqis showed their desire for a government that would represent their interest and provide for their basic needs. Now that government is facing tough challenges. Quelling the violence is a top concern and one that the Iraqi government is striving persistently to address.
Recently, Prime Minister Maliki announced the formation of a special committee to address the issues of militias, and he announced as well a ministerial committee to oversee reform of the security ministries. On Monday, the minister of interior announced the reassignment of a number of its leaders within the national police. The decision to make changes was made solely by the Ministry of Interior, and we continue to applaud the difficult and challenging decisions they are making.
Although the leadership at the division level has changed, the national police continue to prove itself as a capable and viable civil force. In fact, within 24 hours of the Ministry of Interior announcing the reassignment of a unit from the national police, it was deployed on very short notice to Balad to reinforce the local police in that area.
The national police was received well by the town's leadership and is currently conducting operations and assisting the community there. The deployment is a solid display of the national police's ability to deploy nationwide to provide support and reinforcement to the local Iraqi police.
Violence in progress do coexist here in Iraq. The violence continues against security forces and innocent Iraqis during the Muslim holy month of Ramadan. Traditionally, this is a time of great celebration. It has instead been a period of increased violence, not just this year, but during the past two years as well.
The violence is indeed disheartening. In Baghdad alone, we've seen a 22 percent increase in attacks during the first three weeks of Ramadan, as compared to the three weeks preceding Ramadan.
In Baghdad, Operation Together Forward has made a difference in the focus areas, but has not met our overall expectations of sustaining a reduction in the levels of violence. We are working very closely with the government of Iraq to determine how to best refocus or efforts. In regards to this spike in violence during Ramadan, it's no coincidence that the surge in attacks against coalition forces and subsequent increase in U.S. casualties coincide with our increased presence on the streets in Baghdad and the run-up to the American midterm elections.
The enemy knows that killing innocent people and Americans will garner headlines and create a sense of frustration. However, the coalition will not be deterred from establishing an Iraq that can provide for its own security and govern itself. The goal is achievable with a combination of both tough security measures by coalition and Iraqi security forces, and a political process that recognizes that 11 or 12 million Iraqis voted for a unity government.
Towards that goal, the coalition continues to support and train an increasingly capable and determined Iraqi security force. This past weekend, Iraqi security forces independently successfully provided security for hundreds of thousands of Shia pilgrims who thronged the Iraqi city of Najaf in a peaceful commemoration of the death of the first imam. The event was carefully organized with city services responding to the massive influx of pilgrims from all across Iraq and neighboring Iran.
M. O'BRIEN: We're going to leave it right there. That's Major General William Caldwell with his briefing. We're going to continue to monitor that briefing and we'll bring you more news from it as it becomes available to us -- Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: Another story we've been following as well, the former congressman Mark Foley has finally named names. He's given Florida prosecutors the name of a priest who allegedly molested him as a child.
Now, that names not being made public yet. Reportedly, though, the priest is living outside of the United States. Foley's attorneys came forward with abuse allegations after Foley was accused of sending sexually explicit messages to teenage boys who had worked as Capitol Hill pages.
And today the House Ethics Committee is going to hear from a central figure in the investigation, former House clerk Jeff Trandahl.
CNN's Dana Bash live for us on Capitol Hill.
Hey, Dana.
DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Soledad. Well, you know, Mark Foley is now a household name in America, but this investigation into what Republican leaders knew about him really centers around congressional staffers and officials who generally live pretty anonymous lives here on Capitol Hill, but they make things work on the Hill. One of those officials is former House clerk Jeff Trandahl, and he is going to be a very important key witness that he House Ethics Committee will hear from.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BASH (voice over): Last year, former House clerk Jeff Trandahl confronted Mark Foley about an e-mail with a former male page, but sources familiar with Trandahl's version of events say he repeatedly raised red flags about Foley years earlier, long before GOP leaders say they knew about Foley's inappropriate conduct with pages. Two sources close to Trandahl tell CNN that he had observed and was told about Mark Foley's troubling behavior in the House cloakroom and elsewhere and was actively monitoring Foley's interaction with pages.
CNN is told Trandahl took his concerns to Kirk Fordham, Foley's former chief of staff, many times. Fordham testified under oath last week that he warned the House speaker's chief of staff three or four years ago about Foley's conduct, according to a source familiar with his version of events. Among the many questions for Trandahl, what did he do about the early warnings? For example, Arizona congressman Jim Kolbe says he told Trandahl five or six years ago that Foley sent a former page an e-mail that made the young man uncomfortable.
Several former colleagues described Trandahl as a by-the-book guy who took his job overseeing 16-year-old pages very seriously. One source saying he watched the teenagers closely and had "zero tolerance" for problems, expelling pages for drinking and smoking pot, no matter how senior a lawmaker the page's sponsor was.
Craig Shniderman is a longtime friend of Jeff Trandahl and says he's confident if Trandahl was aware of something improper, he would have reported it.
CRAIG SHNIDERMAN, FRIEND OF JEFF TRANDAHL: Jeff is a guy who always does the right thing. He lives by the truth. He lives by one truth.
He's not a man that tells different stories to different people. He's not probably what some people think of as the ultimate Washington guy.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: Now, another key question for Jeff Trandahl is, how far up the GOP chain of command did he take his concerns? There will be another important witness before the Ethics Committee today who could help sort that out. That is the number two Republican in the House, Majority Leader John Boehner.
He has added to some of the confusion and contradiction about when Republican leaders knew about Foley and what they did about it. For example, he has said he told the House speaker in the spring that he had heard about Mark Foley's behavior, but the speaker says that simply didn't happen -- Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: Dana Bash for us this morning on Capitol Hill.
Thanks, Dana.
This story and all the day's political news is available, of course, at CNN.com on the CNN.com news ticker. Just go to CNN.com/ticker -- Miles.
M. O'BRIEN: Coming up on the program, some of the stories we're following. Would dividing Iraq into separate states stop the violence there? We'll take a look at that.
Plus, an exclusive for you. Embattled congressman William Jefferson talks to CNN. The midterm elections just weeks away. You'll hear what he's saying about that $90,000 in cash found in his freezer.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
M. O'BRIEN: Some of the top stories we're looking at this morning.
The Department of Homeland Security downplaying those dirty bomb threats against NFL stadiums.
And defective ignition keys forcing Nissan to recall 130,000 cars and SUVs.
The raging sectarian violence in Iraq has very deep roots in ancient religious and ethnic conflict. It rivalries predates the borderlines of Iraq which were drawn, more or less, arbitrarily in the sand by the British after World War I. It leads some to suggest the path to peace means there should be some new borders drawn, dividing Iraq into three autonomous regions.
Les Gelb from the Council on Foreign Relations joins me now. He was one of the early people who was suggesting this would be a good idea.
Good to have you with us, Mr. Gelb.
LES GELB, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: Good to be here.
M. O'BRIEN: You've been talking about this for about three years now. A lot of people would say it's tantamount to defeat in Iraq.
Why would you say it is not defeat?
GELB: Because I think it is the only route open to us for a political settlement among Iraqis to keep the country together. Everything else... M. O'BRIEN: That's a bit of irony there, you're splitting it up to keep it together, essentially.
GELB: You're not splitting it up any more than when we formed the United States. We established a federal system. The 13 colonies became 13 states.
They made most of the legislation. They did almost all the administering. It wasn't until the Roosevelt administration that you had a strong central government.
Same is true in Switzerland, Belgium, Spain today. And we made the same deal in Bosnia. Federalism is not breaking up a country, it's a way to keep it together when you can't get people to agree on a strong central government.
M. O'BRIEN: It sounds good in theory, but the parliament in...
GELB: It's worked in practice in those countries.
M. O'BRIEN: All right, but the parliament in Iraq has tried to discuss this whole notion of federalism, and the Sunnis have boycotted that discussion.
What does that tell you?
GELB: Well, but here's what I tell you. In the Iraqi constitution, right now, the one that passed by an overwhelming majority, there is a provision to do just what I'm saying.
In the constitution, it says a province may combine with other provinces to form regional governments. It's there right now.
Secondly, they passed implementing legislation a week ago. There was opposition to it, just like there was opposition to a federal government here in the United States. Small states against big states.
There will always be opposition.
M. O'BRIEN: But an outright boycott is pretty serious, obviously, if you're not going to have them participate.
GELB: Sure. Sure, it's serious. And if I were a Sunni, I would have boycotted, too...
M. O'BRIEN: Oh, really?
GELB: ... because for their region in the center of the country, they've got no money.
M. O'BRIEN: Well, let's talk about that.
GELB: In order to make federalism work...
M. O'BRIEN: Yes. GELB: ... you have to make the Sunni region financially viable.
M. O'BRIEN: You've got oil to the north, Kurds...
GELB: That's right.
M. O'BRIEN: ... oil to the South, Shia.
GELB: That's right.
M. O'BRIEN: And in the middle, largely -- and we're making sweeping generalizations here, but, by and large, Sunnis in the middle where there isn't any oil. And this is all about oil.
GELB: That's right.
M. O'BRIEN: What would it take to make the Sunnis feel comfortable with guarantees they would be able to share in that oil revenue?
GELB: Yes. You've got to do two things.
One, you have to amend the constitution to guarantee the Sunni region in the center 20 percent of the oil and gas revenues. Without that, they're not economically viable.
And you've got to tell -- we've got to tell the Shiites and the Kurds, look, you're not going to get anything out of the oil you have if there's civil war in that country. It's a 20 percent investment and a rich future for yourself. If you don't do it, you'll have war and you'll have poverty.
M. O'BRIEN: It seems persuasive. The president is not convinced, though.
GELB: That's true.
M. O'BRIEN: Just on Monday, on FOX News, he said this when asked about it: "It will increase sectarian violence. I think it will make it more dangerous."
What do you say to that? Because by sort of drawing these lines in the sand, aren't you exacerbating divisions?
GELB: No. You're making it possible for them to live together, because the fact of the matter is, the fact is, there's ethnic cleansing already going on in that country, and it's getting worse every day, every week. And there's partition happening right now by virtue of a failed policy.
This is a way we might have a chance of stopping it.
M. O'BRIEN: Les Gelb with the Council on Foreign Relations.
Thanks for your time this morning -- Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: All right, Miles. Thanks.
Coming up, an exclusive on CNN. Congressman William Jefferson -- remember, he's the guy who had $90,000 packed in his freezer -- he's under a bribery investigation. We'll talk to him straight ahead.
Also, Andy takes a look at a controversial Hooters promotion for kids.
That's ahead. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
M. O'BRIEN: This just in to CNN. More sign of the sectarian tension and violence we were just talking about. To the North, in Kirkuk, the capital of the oil-rich Kurdish region, eight people killed, 40 wounded after a car bombing there targeted an Iraqi army patrol.
This comes in the context of a series of attacks, mostly fed by Kurdish and Sunni rivalries. As a matter of fact, on Sunday, there were four car bombs, three of them driven by suicide attackers that killed at least seven people in Kirkuk. Rising violence in the Kurdish section as well as the violence continues in Iraq -- Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: We are less than three weeks away from Election Day. We're looking at a congressman who is now trying to get reelected while he's under a federal investigation. We're not talking, though, about the Foley scandal this time around. We're talking about Louisiana Democrat William Jefferson. You might remember he's the one who was caught with $90,000 packed in his freezer.
CNN's Sean Callebs talked with Jefferson exclusively.
Sean's in New Orleans for us this morning.
Good morning, Sean.
SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad.
Let's take stock of where Congressman Jefferson's campaign is right now. You mentioned that federal bribery probe. It has been going on a year and a half, hanging over his head that long. And as well as the raid on his D.C. home back in May -- and that is when the federal authorities found $90,000 tucked away in his freezer.
Now, since that time, Democrats have been distancing themselves. The state Democratic Party has endorsed one of Jefferson's opponents. And House leaders unceremoniously dumped Jefferson from the powerful Ways and Means Committee when he refused to step down.
As you may imagine, Jefferson still believes he can win this race and says he is running hard. And he admits to making mental notes about which Democrats have been abandoning him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REP. WILLIAM JEFFERSON (D), LOUISIANA: The leadership has been a problem, because they of course are trying to make a statement. Now, let me tell you this, and everybody should know this, I'm out here under an investigation for some long period of time, 18 months or whatever. I've not been charged with anything. And I'm due the same presumption every other citizen in this country is due, unless a court of law has proven otherwise.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CALLEBS: Now, that statement that Jefferson refers to that House leaders want want to make, they've made it clear in Washington that Congress would like to take back the majority. And they are doing so by running largely on a campaign that uses integrity and ethics as the cornerstone. So, the bribery scandal hanging over Jefferson's head is a thorn in their side.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEFFERSON: You don't expect me to discuss the matter I've never discussed with anyone here in this restaurant today with you. It's a good try, but I don't plan to do it today.
CALLEBS: It was a try. You understand that.
JEFFERSON: I understand.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CALLEBS: That was Jefferson talking about that $90,000. He's always said he's going to have an honorable explanation for that, but that was back in May. Still no word from him.
Now, Jefferson is running against 12 other Democrats in the upcoming race. And if no candidate gets more than 50 percent of the vote in November there will be a December run-off. And while Jefferson's campaign certainly has been hurt in terms of support, both financial and from Democratic leaders, he has still raised more than twice as much cash as any other opponent, and he does have some pretty powerful leadership here, including Mayor Ray Nagin, as well as the Democratic parties in Orleans and Jefferson Parish -- Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: Yes, but, you know, Sean, I've got to tell you, he might say to you or other reporters, you know, "I'm not going to talk about that money in the freezer thing," but I think if you're a voter, you might feel like you're just -- you deserve an explanation.
CALLEBS: It's a legitimate question. And we posed it to him in several different ways yesterday.
But remember, this is New Orleans. And the voting base here is messed up. People don't know -- a lot of people went to Houston, a lot of people went to Atlanta. It's very difficult to say.
The racial makeup in this district used to be about 70 percent black, 30 percent white. No one knows how it's going to vote. But New Orleans has a history of speaking its own mind.
S. O'BRIEN: And a whole bunch of other problems, too. So maybe the money issue is not really at the top of their list of things they're thinking about.
Sean Callebs for us this morning.
Thanks, Sean. We're looking forward to your full interview. The full interview on Jefferson, of course, is going to air today in "THE SITUATION ROOM" at 4:00 p.m. and 7:00 p.m. Eastern Time right here on CNN -- Miles.
M. O'BRIEN: All right. You're a parent. Here's a question you might not want to answer, "Daddy, what's a hooter?"
Andy Serwer is here with the story of Hooters going family style?
Is that what it is?
ANDY SERWER, EDITOR-AT-LARGE, "FORTUNE": Well, it always has been. I'll tell you how this started. It kind of has become a lightning rod for some readers of my online column.
I was out in New Jersey driving around and I saw this billboard advertisement for Hooters, and it says, "Kids eat free on Tuesdays." And I sort of wondered, well, how many people take their kids to Hooters? And I posed that question on my online column and I got a ton of e-mail.
A lot of people saying they did. And they sent me pictures of them with their kids at Hooters.
And we went to Hooters' Web site and started checking out their stats about the restaurant. And as it turns out, 32 percent of Hooters customers are women. And 10 percent of the groups that gro to Hooters, the parties, include children.
And yes, in fact, they have a kids menu at Hooters. And, you know, I've been to Hooters a couple of times, I guess, in my life, and I don't really remember seeing kids there. But maybe I wasn't paying attention, as they say.
M. O'BRIEN: I have a confession to make. I took my kids there once.
SERWER: Oh, you did?
M. O'BRIEN: Well, it was the only restaurant open. We were in -- you know, in a familiar place. And it was -- it was OK. I mean...
SERWER: Your kids are doing just fine.
Now, here's another wrinkle. I got an e-mail from a viewer the other night -- actually, just yesterday, in fact -- who told me about a Hooters in Pacific Beach, California -- that's in San Diego -- that was doing -- now, this is last night. They were having a fund-raiser for breast cancer awareness, which I thought was kind of interesting.
And the name of the event was "Help Save our Hooters". Now, you might find that to be funny, for a good cause, or you might find that just to be in really bad taste.
So send us an e-mail and tell us what you think about that. It's kind of...
M. O'BRIEN: Well, you know, good taste I would save for their wings. I don't know if their advertising necessarily would be called that.
SERWER: Yes. Yes.
M. O'BRIEN: Would you?
SERWER: Always a lightning rod, that restaurant. I think it's safe to say that, yes.
M. O'BRIEN: A lightning -- it's a lightning rod restaurant.
Thank you very much, Andy Serwer.
SERWER: You're welcome.
M. O'BRIEN: We'll see you later.
Some of the stories we're following right now for you.
Republicans go on the offensive to keep control of Congress.
Plus, Dr. Sanjay Gupta looks at whether a supplement known as the "Fountain of Youth" really works.
What do you think? Hang on to your wallet, folks.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's only a matter of time before politicians wake up and realize how important the Internet is.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Politicians and policy can be affected by an opinion that's expressed on an Internet blog.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Politicians could use a blog to promote themselves to people who they wouldn't usually see.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For just your average voter, the Internet is really a very valuable resource.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I see the Web basically being the future of politics. M. O'BRIEN (on camera): Sixty million Americans say the Internet helped them make major decisions in their lives in the past two years. But when it comes to politics, how much will the Web affect what we hear, what we see, and how we vote.
(voice-over): Henry Farrell (ph) of George Washington University says personal Web sites, known as Web logs or blogs, will continue changing the political landscape.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Blogs are becoming more and more of a way in which ordinary people can communicate, can express their political opinions, can engage in certain kinds of political action and can have real consequences as a result.
M. O'BRIEN: It was chatter on the so-called blogosphere that ultimately lead to Trent Lott's resignation as Senate majority leader. And Howard Dean effectively used the Internet to raise interest and money, making him a viable contender for the 2004 Democratic presidential run. In the future, Farrell says, while its role is ever-changing, the Internet is sure to remain a political force.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The future impact of the Internet on politics is enormous. Politics is going to become much more unpredictable than it has been in the past, much more difficult to control, a lot more interesting, a lot more lively.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
S. O'BRIEN: Welcome back, everybody, I'm Soledad O'Brien.
M. O'BRIEN: And I'm Miles O'Brien. Good morning.
(NEWSBREAK)
(WEATHER REPORT)
M. O'BRIEN: Thank you very much, Chad. They say the best defense is a good offense. True in sports, true in politics. With less than three weeks until the midterm elections, Republicans are doing just that to try to keep control of Congress.
AMERICAN MORNING'S Bob Franken in Washington with more.
Bob, good morning.
BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Miles.
The -- for all the boasting at the National Press Club, it becomes very clear that the people who run these things have no foggy idea about how the election is going.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FRANKEN (voice-over): It's an incredibly stormy campaign, where Republicans have been thunderstruck. Democrats are hoping to take advantage not just of Mark Foley, but the months and months of corruption charges.
REP. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D), MARYLAND: There's a real sense around the country that what has been the people's house has become an auction house.
FRANKEN: Republicans are furiously trying to refocus the campaign.
REP. TOM REYNOLDS (R), NEW YORK: We are dealing with fierce contests fought by local personalities.
FRANKEN: In fact, the CNN Opinion Research Poll released Tuesday shows that of the issues the voters care about, Mark Foley and the other corruption charges show up behind the war in Iraq and terrorism and the economy and North Korea. And in the midst of this remarkable campaign fury sit the political professionals who play the multimillion dollar chess game as best they can.
EVAN TRACEY, CNN CONSULTANT: Money is going to matter probably an equal amount to issues. You know, money is what drives the issues. In other words, if you don't have the money to push a message, you're going to come up short on election day.
FRANKEN: President Bush in and Vice President Cheney are on the road a lot these days, trying to whip up voter turnout. But a big question is whether they'll turn out Republicans or Democrats.
REYNOLDS: Make no mistake, we are on the offense.
REP. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D), MARYLAND: As you look around the country, you obviously see an expanding number of tight races.
FRANKEN: Democrats say that number has surged to about 60 competitive races. Republicans understandably placed the figure much lower, about three dozen. Either way, if the Democrats pick up 15, they take control of the House.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FRANKEN: Miles, you like cliches, and we always hear the one "too close to call," but this time it's probably more like too strange to call.
M. O'BRIEN: Or only time will tell.
FRANKEN: That's a good one. That's a good one.
M. O'BRIEN: Thank you very much, Bob Franken -- Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: We all know that the middle class makes up the largest voting bloc in every election. But are their needs being met in Washington, D.C.? It's the focus of CNN's Lou Dobbs' series of special town hall meeting. The big problems are often health care and education.
The Curtis family is struggling financially. They're dealing with medical issues whose son was born with two holes in his heart and lung problems, too. And even though they have health insurance, they were still forced to file for bankruptcy.
This morning, Aneesha (ph) and Lendell Curtis join us. They're in Kansas City with their little baby, Lendell. Nice to see you both. Thanks for talking with us. Just on cue, little baby Lendell, Jr. cries for us. Thanks for talking with us.
I have a question for you. Lendell Jr. is 16 months old. We talked a little bit about his medical problems. How much money do you spend on his medical care out of pocket?
LENDELL CURTIS, DECLARED BANKRUPTCY: Well, I know I have a bill at the house for $44,000. And there are numerous other medical bills. They range from $50 to $100 to $500, up to $1,000. So just a numerous amount of bills.
S. O'BRIEN: It's got to be overwhelming. Do you have medical insurance at your job?
CURTIS: We do have medical insurance. But his surgery maxed out his portion of the medical insurance. So once that is maxed out, we pretty much have to get some assistance from wherever you can.
S. O'BRIEN: Gosh, that is tough. I know you declared bankruptcy. Do you see at this point, three weeks away from the election, do you see any way out for your family? I mean, you're working to have medical insurance, and $50,000 worth of debt and a little baby.
CURTIS: It gets pretty depressing. We try not to focus on the bills. We just focus on getting him healthy and better. And we're finding out that there are resources, but you have to dig pretty deep. And help is there. It's just you've got to really research and find it.
S. O'BRIEN: Sounds very tough. And of course, got little Lendell screaming up a storm for us.
We're going to turn to Andy Serwer to discuss this a little bit further. It is scary to think that they have jobs, and they have insurance. I mean, everything that should protect you from the situation they now find themselves in. Both having declared bankruptcy, and way, way in debt.
SERWER: Yes. I mean, what's going on, Soledad, it's really a crushing burden that they bear. And 50 percent of all bankruptcies in this country are because of the medical issues like that family has, which is staggering. Credit card debt is only about 1 percent of the causes of bankruptcy.
And here's a fact that is truly staggering: premiums, average premiums for health care, have risen 87 percent since 2000. So in other words, they're paying more and getting less.
S. O'BRIEN: And do you see that trend continuing? SERWER: I do, because the cost of health care is continuing to increase, and the politicians in Washington have been unable to come up with a comprehensive solution to address this problem that middle- class Americans are facing. And these are people, as you say, they have a job, they have insurance, and they're still being crushed by those costs.
S. O'BRIEN: It's just brutal for them. And on top of it, a little baby who's sick and not going to get better anytime in the near future.
Let's turn to David Hicks now.
David Hicks, his issue is the college education. Of course college really the only way to get ahead. But the cost of that education is just spiraling out of control. David Hicks got his degree 10 years ago, and he's still got $50,000 in debt. He's in Kansas City for us this morning.
David, thanks for talking with us. We certainly appreciate it.
You have all this debt. You're not 23 years old; you're 37 years old. What is to you the scariest thing about this mountain of debt that you have?
DAVID HICKS, IN DEBT FROM COLLEGE LOANS: The scariest thing is being able to repay my education debt, and then also find some way to save for my wife and I to put our children through college as well. I mean, we started out with the lowest income bracket. My wife and I were raising our infant child when I was going to college, and we borrowed every penny we could with the guaranteed student loans and the supplementary loans for students to get through these troubling years. And we're a middle-class, average household income family. But I have this high education debt.
S. O'BRIEN: It's got to be really scary, especially as you talk about your kids, who I think are 12 and 10, right? I mean, they're going to be heading off to college not too far in the future there. Do you have any money put away for them at this point?
HICKS: Not at this point. And it's interesting, because my son actually asked me on the way to the Lou Dobbs show last night, he said, dad, would you have gotten the job you got now if you had not gone to college? And he said, but would you have the debt? And I said no. And I didn't really have an answer for him. It's almost a questions of what's the point.
And there are certain things that I think could help people in my plight. When we were going to school, when I was going to school and making $14,000 a year as a household income for my wife and I and our infant child, there are tax credits that allow you to deduct certain tuition and education expenses. But that's not when I needed the help; I need the relief now, when I'm trying to repay my education debt. If they would allow people with student loans from the '90s to repay their education debt with pretax income, that would really help out and provide a lot of a relief for thousands of Americans out there.
S. O'BRIEN: You have a good job. You're the director of an aerospace manufacturing plant. Your wife works in the school cafeteria. It's not like you're looking for a handout.
HICKS: Yes.
S. O'BRIEN: Has your financial situation affected who you're going to vote for in three weeks?
HICKS: I want to correct you on the director part, so I don't get in trouble at work. I'm a program director.
S. O'BRIEN: Did I just promote you?
HICKS: Yes, you did. Thank you so much.
S. O'BRIEN: All right, program director, still a big job.
HICKS: Yes. And but will it affect my vote? I don't know. Actually, I live in a district that is going through possible change. We're one of the districts that might see a change. I really haven't decided who I'm going to vote for yet. I'm registered independent. I'm just going to have to look at the issues of both the Congressmen and see which way I'm going to lean. I think that Washington in itself regardless of Republican or Democrat is looking out for the interests of corporations, and the elite, and not for middle-class Americans who want to educate themselves and provide health care for their families.
S. O'BRIEN: David Hicks. David, thanks.
Let's turn back to Andy Serwer.
Again, it's a classic case. I mean, in a way, his son, who's only 10 years old, summed it great which is, well, why go get this education if you're paying for it for the rest of your life? You're not really making the money the great job brings you.
SERWER: Yes, I mean, David's in a tough situation. You have to wonder if he's even making interest payments on those loans, because it sounds like it hasn't really gone down much in the ensuing years. If he still has $50,000 of debt outstanding on those student loans.
And of course, Soledad, interest rates have gone up. You were allowed to consolidate and pay loans back at a lower rate, 2002, 4 percent, 4.06 percent. The rate now is at 6.8 percent. That's A huge jump for people like David who are living maybe not paycheck to paycheck, but obviously have a very tight budget.
So the news is not getting any better for him. And his idea of using pretax dollars to pay back those loans is an interesting one, and it's been debated.
S. O'BRIEN: Maybe he should run for Congress.
SERWER: Yes.
S. O'BRIEN: It doesn't sound like there's a candidate on either side who's speaking to him. I mean, he's still thinking about it, and we're only a couple weeks away from the election.
SERWER: This is a constituency out there that doesn't have a lot of people who are listening to it, I think that's fair to say. And of course the price of school, college, $20,000, $30,000 a year. So it's a problem that is not going away at all.
S. O'BRIEN: Which is ridiculous, because the middle class makes up the biggest voting block in the election. And you're right, they're don't have someone who's really speaking necessarily for them.
Andy, thank you very much. Appreciate that.
SERWER: Thank you.
S. O'BRIEN: And thanks to the families who joined us with some details of their situation.
SERWER: You want to tune in tonight to CNN at 7:00 p.m. Eastern Time for a Jack Cafferty special report. It's called "BROKEN GOVERNMENT." He's taking on the left. He's taking on the right. Typical Jack. He's taking on the center. He says it's time to vote everybody out and just start all over again.
That's tonight at 7:00 p.m. Eastern -- Miles.
M. O'BRIEN: This just in to CNN. We have learned the name of the catholic priest at the center of the Congressman Mark Foley controversy, the man who the former Congressman said abused him when he was a teenager in Florida. His name is Father Anthony Mercieca, and he is currently not in the United States.
But at the time, according -- at the time that the alleged abuse took place, was stationed in the Lake Worth Area of Florida. In addition to those details, which CNN has learned, interesting and provocative article from the "Sarasota Herald Tribune" out this morning, with an interview with the father.
We're joined now by the reporter who was involved in that story, Matthew Doig.
Matthew, you spoke to the father. What did he have to say about this relationship?
MATTHEW DOIG, "HERALD-TRIBUNE": Well, he said it started out kind of as an innocent friendship between the two of them. They would go on trips together, he said, and they kind of became quick friends. He acknowledges that looking back, some of that was inappropriate. They went skinny dipping together. The father talked about naked back massages, that type of thing. But again, nothing beyond that. But he said at some point there was an incident between the two of them that he blamed on tranquilizers and alcohol that probably led to the moment that Mark Foley is talking about. M. O'BRIEN: All right. So Father Mercieca in this case doesn't really dispute Mark Foley's story?
DOIG: No, he doesn't. He acknowledged that an incident took place.
M. O'BRIEN: What does he have to say? Is he sorry about it? Does he offer any sort of explanation?
DOIG: Well, like I said, his explanation was, he had just moved from Brazil to Lake Worth and he said he was going through a depression at the time because of the move, and that's why he was on the tranquilizers. He said he was having a nervous breakdown. That was pretty much what he was blaming it on. He was add adamant that this was a one-time incident.
In fact, our second source close to the Foley family had described it to us before that as a one-time incident. And this Father Tony, who worked in a enough of different parishes, and said there was no other accusation leveled against him, except this one by Mark Foley.
M. O'BRIEN: So you said there was one incident, but there was a relationship there that was probably not necessarily appropriate between a priest and an altar boy which led up to the single sexual encounter?
DOIG: Exactly. And he said, looking back, all those other incidents are probably going to be viewed as inappropriate, the skinny dipping, the back massage, these trips to the sauna. I mean, in 1966 there may have been a different attitude about a, you know, adult man, you know, a priest having this kind of friendship with a teenage boy.
But now, looking back, even those incidents that weren't involving sexual contact or anything like that, you can see how that would be viewed as inappropriate as well.
M. O'BRIEN: All right, Matthew Doig with a piece from "The Sarasota Herald Tribune" today with an interview with Father Anthony Mercieca, the priest now at the center of the Foley scandal. Former Congressman having a relationship with him some 40 years ago in Lake Worth, Florida. We'll keep you posted as details unwind on that one.
(WEATHER REPORT)
M. O'BRIEN: Coming up in the program, a new study is out on the benefits of a supplement known as the fountain of youth. Dr. Sanjay Gupta tells us what researchers found, and buyer beware.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
S. O'BRIEN: The chief spokesman for the U.S. military in Baghdad says that the security plan in Baghdad, the whole linchpin of the whole plan in Iraq, is just not working. It happened just moments ago.
CNN's Barbara Starr is at the Pentagon.
Barbara, this is huge. It's a huge admission, isn't it?
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: It is stunning, to say the least, Soledad. We've been monitoring here a briefing coming out of Baghdad. General Bill Caldwell, the chief spokesman, talking to reporters in Baghdad, saying that the violence not only is on the rise, but that they are relooking now at the entire Baghdad security plan. He said attacks had been up 20 percent in the last couple of weeks. He said it was disheartening, and that they are looking at what they need to do now to refocus their efforts in Baghdad.
Have a quick listen to what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAJ. GEN. BILL CALDWELL, SPOKESMAN, MULTINATIONAL FORCE, IRAQ: Operation Together Forward has made a difference in the focus areas, but has not met our overall expectations of sustaining a reduction in the levels of violence. We are working very closely with the government of Iraq to determine how to best to refocus our efforts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STARR: That's a huge admission. General Caldwell also saying that the U.S. now believes the insurgents are looking at the midterm elections here in the United States as a target of opportunity, trying to raise the level of violence in order to affect those midterm elections.
And one other quick detail, Soledad. General Caldwell talked extensively, acknowledging the U.S. military has just released a Shia cleric who they believe is tied to Muqtada al Sadr. But they have released him because Prime Minister Nouri al-Malaki wanted the man out of jail, wanted him released, even though the U.S. went and got the man, risked U.S. lives in a military operation. Prime Minister Malaki saying he wanted that man released, tied to Muqtada al Sadr, so the U.S. coalition had no choice, they did release this cleric -- Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: I think disheartening doesn't even come close to the description that you're giving there, Barbara, on several front. I mean, let's talk about Operation Forward Together. That was the operation that we were talking about on the air was that was going to bring all the resources into Baghdad, take them away from the other provinces. Because once you settle Baghdad, that means everything else should theoretically follow. Is this an admission that this strategy is not working, and ergo, we need a massive change in how we're going to move forward in Iraq?
STARR: Well, at least for Baghdad, Soledad, General Caldwell making it very clear. He said we are concerned about what we're seeing. We're going back and looking at the whole Baghdad security plan. He said the question now for U.S. military commanders is, have the security conditions in the last couple of weeks in Baghdad changed so significantly that the very U.S. assumptions about the violence have changed, the conditions have changed, and now they're going back and saying, OK, what do we do now? It is a very significant admission. The U.S. had put its eggs in the basket of getting Baghdad under control, and General Caldwell making it very clear this morning, saying it's not under control -- Soledad.
S. O'BRIEN: Barbara Starr at the Pentagon for us. Thanks, Barbara.
M. O'BRIEN: It's "House Call" time. Ponce de Leon never found it, and you probably won't either. The Fountain of Youth remains an illusions, and now there is a new study offering yet more proof.
Our senior medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta with more from Atlanta.
Good morning. Sanjay, how are you?
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning. I'm doing well.
M. O'BRIEN: Are you feeling young?
GUPTA: I haven't found that fountain of youth myself. People have been searching for it as far back as Ponce de Leon, you're right. You know, is it a pill, is it a cream, is it some sort of potion?
People for a long time believed DHEA -- you may have heard of this substance -- the actual name is dehydroepiandrosterone. You don't have to remember that. But it's a type of naturally occurring steroid in the body. It's similar to testosterone and estrogen. And here's the thing about it, it's made by the adrenal glands and it peaks in late adolescence and early adulthood and then starts to diminish slowly over a person's lifetime.
But people start to think, well could this -- if we start to replace this, could this somehow be a sort of fountain of youth? Could it improve physical stature, could it improve thinking and your cognitive function? All these sorts of things. And there were some studies, some small ones early on, that suggested that it might -- now a more definitive study, as you mentioned, Miles, coming out from "The New England Journal of Medicine," a larger study where they actually randomized -- they gave some people the DHEA, they gave some people placebo, and they found it had absolutely no effect whatsoever.
So this is a pretty big deal. Again, a lot of people have been hanging their hats on DHEA for some time. This "New England Journal" study saying it has no effects in terms of any of the things they were trying to measure, those things associated with youth.
M. O'BRIEN: So I'm a little confused now. Because I am getting old, after all. You said there were earlier studies which sort of gave it some reason to believe that it might be working. Is this the one that trumps the others?
GUPTA: It is. I think that the -- you know, in fact, this is a larger study, so that's important. It also is what's called a randomized study. And this is really important. Some of the earlier studies just looked at DHEA and said, well, the people who are taking it seem to have some more youthful characteristics.
But they didn't randomize it, comparing similar people who weren't taking DHEA. And so there was a question, are the people who are taking these supplements, are they more youthful to begin with? Are they people who are doing other things to keep themselves youthful? When you actually randomize it, you get a better sense of whether it works or not.
Plus it was a larger study. One of the people in the editorial about this paper went so far as to say this should no longer be considered a supplement, it should be considered a regulated drug.
M. O'BRIEN: Really? All right. Or maybe just snake oil, who knows.
GUPTA: Or maybe -- you know, there's a lot of snake oils out there. But if you're taking DHEA specifically to try to search for youth, this isn't the substance for you.
M. O'BRIEN: Thank you very much, Sanjay Gupta. We are a little bummed about it, but that's the way it goes.
GUPTA: I'll keep hunting for you.
M. O'BRIEN: All right, keep hunting, please. Thank you, Ponce.
All right. It's Thursday. That means it's Miles Cam Day. E- mail me, milescam@cnn.com. That could be a really sort of like a fountain of youth, you know? It will revive you in the middle of your week and give you new reason to press on and make you feel youthful. Send us your questions at milescam@cnn.com.
S. O'BRIEN: Uh huh.
M. O'BRIEN: Answers are 10:00 a.m. Eastern. New time, new time. 10:00 Eastern on Pipeline, cnn.com/pipeline. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
