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Florida Serial Killer Set For Execution; President Bush Meets With the Media; New Jersey Supreme Court Rules in Favor of Same-Sex Marriage
Aired October 25, 2006 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Kyra Phillips at the CNN World Headquarters in Atlanta.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Don Lemon.
Tonight, a serial killer is set to die. He murdered five college students in 1990 and terrorized an entire town.
PHILLIPS: They have been there on the front lines, but, now, they would never go back. A group of soldiers wants American troops home -- voices of experience or political pawns? Both sides join us in the NEWSROOM.
LEMON: The stem cell debate, and the World Series stepping up to the plate for a cause. A cause celebre brings out big hitters on both sides.
You're live right here in the CNN NEWSROOM.
Highly anticipated, certainly emotional -- New Jersey's highest court gets set to rule on same-sex marriages this hour.
CNN's Carol Costello joins us from New York.
And, Carol, those looking for similar legislation will be watching this very closely.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Very closely, indeed.
In fact, I'm just looking at the Supreme Court's Web site right now -- the Supreme Court of New Jersey, that is. The decision will come down at any time. Now, the reason this is -- this is so very important is because New Jersey is only one of five states with no laws specifically banning gay marriage. It also has no residency requirement.
So, if a gay marriage law passes here, any gay couple could come to New Jersey and get married, and then go back home. And imagine the problems that would cause.
In any case, it has been a long road for those who filed suit.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO (voice-over): Episcopal pastors Mark Harris (ph) and Denis Winslow have performed so many weddings between them, they have lost count. But the one they dream of attending is their own.
DENIS WINSLOW, PLAINTIFF: We see it as -- as a civil right that we're denied. Even though we pay first-class taxes, we're treated like second-class citizens.
COSTELLO: A lawsuit filed in New Jersey bears Harris' (ph) last name, along with six other gay and lesbian couples, all seeking the right to marry. Their attorneys say New Jersey's Constitution guarantees liberty and equality, and should grant them the right to marry, even though two lower courts have said that's a decision for the New Jersey legislature.
DAVID BUCKEL, ATTORNEY: Marriage, as everyone knows, is this vast network of both responsibilities and rights, which bring more shelter to a family.
COSTELLO: The issue of whether gays can marry has roiled American politics for more than a decade. Voters in eight states will decide November 7 to whether to amend their state constitutions to ban gays from marrying. Four challenges in four states seek the right to marry.
The issue became all the more heated when Massachusetts became the first and only state to grant marriage rights to gays and lesbians. Six other states followed by granting them most marriage rights, but calling them civil unions or domestic partnerships.
But the political side has mostly run in the other direction. Forty-five states and the federal government have adopted laws banning gays from marrying.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO: All right, we believe the opinion has come down. I'm going to go to the computer right now and sort through this.
And, then, of course, you will come back to me when I get it all ready for air. OK, so, I am going to get busy right now.
LEMON: All right, Carol, we will check back with you on that, just as soon as we get it. Thank you.
She's looking now.
PHILLIPS: Well, in Iraq, more heavy fighting and killing and a failure to rein in violent militias has the country's prime minister on the defensive.
CNN's John Roberts is live in Baghdad -- John.
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And good day to you, Kyra -- yes, Nouri al-Maliki today coming out and renouncing, in a way, at least, a raid that took place this morning in Sadr City in the northeastern neighborhoods of Baghdad. It was early this morning that U.S. forces, along with Iraqi special forces, went into that neighborhood, looking for a top commander of the Mahdi militia. That's the militia that is loyal to Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, one of the most powerful leaders in Iraq.
They went in there looking for this man, who they believe was leading some of these death squads that have caused such a toll in violence, sectarian violence, across the country.
It ended with a two-hour firefight that was finally brought to a close when American airpower was brought in, with what they called targeted, precision firing. And, then, the United States has said that they went in there with the authorization of the Iraqi government. Suddenly, Nouri al-Maliki comes out and suggests: Well, no, I didn't give authorization for it, and no future operations like this will be allowed -- so, everybody playing a little bit of politics here, particularly on the Iraqi side.
Nouri al-Maliki knows how sensitive it is in the -- that neighborhood of Sadr City, to go in there with force. Muqtada al-Sadr is a source of much of his support, much of the reason why he is the prime minister of this country. So, he's playing it sort of very carefully here with these militias.
And, in fact, it's interesting. When you look at Operation Together Forward, about the only place that they're not allowed to go to in Baghdad is coalition troops together with Iraqi forces to try to clear, hold and build, that strategy that they have been pursuing for the last few months, Sadr City is about the only place that they can't go, Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Now, you're working on a piece about a security plan in Baghdad, right?
ROBERTS: We're working on a piece for tonight, which is Baghdad being the center of gravity for all of Iraq. It's kind of the idea of, as Baghdad goes, so most of Iraq goes. There may be one or two pockets that can operate independently.
But it's the idea that, if the battle for Baghdad is lost, the battle for the entire country could be lost, and how important this piece of landscape is to the overall future of this country -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: All right, John Roberts, thanks so much.
LEMON: Not satisfied? President Bush said that's how he feels about the war in Iraq, and he knows that's how many Americans feel as well. His assessment today comes just 13 days before important midterm elections.
And CNN's Elaine Quijano is at the White House with more on the president's news conference.
Hello, Elaine.
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good afternoon to you, Don.
That's right. Just two weeks after his last news conference and less than two weeks before those ever important congressional midterm elections, President Bush today once again took the opportunity to press his case on Iraq. He spent roughly a quarter of the about the hour-long news conference time giving a statement focusing on Iraq. He acknowledged that the violence there is continuing, that Americans are not satisfied with the way things are going there.
He also said he's not satisfied either. But the president also pushed back against the notion that the United States is in the midst of an open-ended commitment in Iraq. He said, Americans have no intention of taking sides in a sectarian struggle or standing in the crossfire between rival factions.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We are pressing Iraqi's leaders to take bold measures to save their country. We're making it clear that America's patience is not unlimited. Yet, we also understand the difficult challenges Iraq's leaders face. And we will not put more pressure on the Iraqi government than it can bear.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUIJANO: (AUDIO GAP) news conference, of course, coming at a critical time, when many Republicans are quite nervous about their reelection prospects, coming up in less than two weeks, because of the effect of the Iraq wars.
And what we have seen, including today, Don, is President Bush trying to walk that fine line between remaining resolute, essentially committed to his goals of seeing an Iraq that can defend itself, sustain itself, govern itself, be an ally in the war on terrorism. And, at the same time, you're seeing the administration trying to send the message that, in fact, officials have been and will continue to be flexible in the tactics -- Don.
LEMON: You said the Republicans are a little bit nervous. I guess the Democrats are holding their breath, keeping their fingers crossed. What's their response to this message today?
QUIJANO: Yes.
Well, as you might imagine, Democrats certainly are pouncing, specifically on this phrase stay the course, which the White House announced a couple of days ago the president would no longer be using, for the reason that Democrats are seizing on.
And they make the argument that that phrase, stay the course, essentially illustrates how the administration has been reluctant to change tactics and make adjustments as events warrant on the ground. In fact, today, you had Democratic Minority Leader Senator Harry Reid out, trying to make the case, essentially, that the administration has been inflexible, saying, in a statement -- quote -- "One day, it's stay the course. The next day, it's change the course. It is increasingly clear that the president does not know what to do to stop the escalating violence in Iraq."
So, clearly, Democrats are trying to seize on the Iraq war's unpopularity. The president today asked about the prospects of a Democratic Congress after these midterm elections -- the president saying -- quote -- "The Democrats are dancing in the end zone. They -- they just haven't scored the touchdown" -- so, trying to sound optimistic less than two weeks out -- Don.
LEMON: All right, Elaine Quijano, stay the course being replaced by adjust tactics.
QUIJANO: Mmm-hmm.
LEMON: Thank you very much for your report.
PHILLIPS: Will New Jersey joined Massachusetts in letting gays take a trip down the aisle? Supporters and opponents of same-sex marriage anxiously await a state court ruling with national implications.
We will bring that decision this hour.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, MCCASKILL FOR SENATE CAMPAIGN AD)
MICHAEL J. FOX, ACTOR: ... politics is local...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Plus: His "Family Ties" character would have loved Rush Limbaugh. But this is not politics, not a sitcom. -- this is politics, and not a sitcom. Coming up: Michael J. Fox gets involved in a U.S. Senate race, and comes under fire from the talk show host.
We're back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Embryonic stem cell research, an emotional and divisive debate -- and it is emerging as a major campaign issue. Now a popular actor and a conservative talk show host are front and center in this. It started with a campaign ad by actor Michael J. Fox.
And CNN's Mary Snow has the story for us.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): We have seen him before campaigning on behalf of stem cell research, but, this year, television viewers could clearly see the toll Parkinson's Disease has taken on Michael J. Fox.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, MCCASKILL FOR SENATE CAMPAIGN AD)
MICHAEL J. FOX, ACTOR: They say all politics is local, but that's not always the case. What you do in Missouri matters to millions of Americans, Americans like me.
(END VIDEO CLIP) SNOW: Fox is campaigning for Missouri U.S. Senate Candidate and Democrat Claire McCaskill. In the ad, Fox urges voters not to support Republican Senator Jim Talent.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM MCCASKILL FOR SENATE CAMPAIGN AD)
FOX: Unfortunately, Senator Jim Talent opposes expanding stem cell research.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SNOW: Fox did similar ads for Democrats in Wisconsin and Maryland. It drew a strongly delivered response from conservative talk show host Rush Limbaugh, who, on his nationally syndicated show, called into question why Fox was shaking so much.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP, "THE RUSH LIMBAUGH SHOW")
RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: This is really shameless, folks. This is really shameless of Michael J. Fox. Either he didn't take his medication or he's acting, one of the two.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SNOW: In Illinois Tuesday, Fox made a reference to Limbaugh's comments during a campaign stop for Democrat Tammy Duckworth, who's running for Congress.
FOX: I'm kind of lucky right now. It's ironic, given -- given some things that have been said in the last couple of days, that my -- my pills are working really well right now.
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
SNOW: Some conservatives who oppose embryonic stem cell research don't agree with the way Limbaugh handled it.
RAMESH PONNURU, SENIOR EDITOR, "THE NATIONAL REVIEW": I don't think Republicans are going to be hurt because one talk show host, however influential, said something foolish, although it wasn't helpful. I think the key thing that Republicans are going to have to do is explain that these ads oversimplify the issues.
SNOW: Embryonic stem cell research has gained much attention in Missouri, because there's a state ballot initiative that basically supports stem cell research and any therapies that come of it. Proponents of the initiative have spent nearly $3 million in advertising, compared to the $111,000 from the opposition. Still, there is competition on the airwaves from groups who have their own message.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, VITAE CARING FOUNDATION AD)
NARRATOR: Embryonic stem cell research will require millions of eggs, and women will pay a terrible price.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SNOW (on camera): That price, say some critics of embryonic stem cell research, will include cloning and egg farming. That is something Michael J. Fox says he opposes and does not want to see happen.
Mary Snow, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: And we should note, Rush Limbaugh did offer an apology, saying: "Now people are telling me that they have seen Michael J. Fox in interviews, and he does appear the same way in the interviews as he does in this commercial. All right, then. I stand corrected. So, I will, bigly, hugely, admit that I was wrong, and will apologize to Michael J. Fox, if I am wrong in characterizing his behavior on this commercial as an act."
Now, after his apology, Limbaugh added this: "Michael J. Fox is allowing his illness to be exploited. And, in the process, he is shilling for a Democratic politician."
Well, Michael J. Fox's support for Claire McCaskill and the stem cell amendment in Missouri is being watched by an ad opposing the amendment -- being matched, rather, by an ad opposing the amendment. It features star power, too, include several high-profile actors and athletes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, AD)
JEFF SUPPAN, MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL PLAYER: Amendment 2 claims it bans human cloning. But, in the 2,000 words you won't read, it makes cloning a constitutional right. Don't be received.
KURT WARNER, NATIONAL FOOTBALL LEAGUE PLAYER: Californians agreed to spent $6 billion on the exact same science. Now they admit there won't be any cures for at least 15 years -- same science, $6 billion, no cures. Beware of loopholes. Missourians will pay. Don't be tricked.
PATRICIA HEATON, ACTRESS: Amendment 2 actually makes it a constitutional right for fertility critics to pay women for eggs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Well, that ad starts running tonight in Missouri during game four of the World Series, which, of course, featuring the Saint Louis Cardinals.
Jeff Suppan, the second speaker you saw in that ad, is tonight's starting pitcher for the Cardinals.
Just two weeks before the election, we're talking ethics and the election. And two weeks before the midterms, House Speaker Dennis Hastert testified before the House Ethics Committee -- the focus, of course, the Mark Foley investigation. Some lawmakers and aides say Hastert was told about Foley's contact with House pages earlier than he's letting on.
Hastert talked with reporters after his testimony.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. DENNIS HASTERT (R-IL), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: I thank the committee for prompt action, for moving forward on this committee, on -- on this inquiry. They did so.
I answered all the questions they asked in a -- to the best of my ability. I also said that they needed to move quickly to get to the bottom of this issue, including who knew about the sexually explicit messages and when they knew about it. So, they needed to make sure that they asked all the questions of everybody.
Thank you very much.
(CROSSTALK)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Well, Foley, who resigned last month, has claimed he was molested by a priest years ago.
Just this morning, another former altar boy alleged abuse by the same priest, Father Anthony Mercieca.
PHILLIPS: So, will New Jersey join Massachusetts in letting gays take a trip down the aisle? Supporters and opponents of same-sex marriage anxiously await a state court ruling with national implications. We are going to bring you the decision this hour.
Plus: He used the U.N. stage to bash the U.S. Now Venezuela's Hugo Chavez is battling for a seat of power. He wants to join the Security Council. We are going to head to the U.N. for an update on this campaign -- coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Well, the New Jersey Supreme Court has spoken on same- sex marriage.
Let's get straight to CNN's Carol Costello in New York for that just-released ruling -- Carol.
COSTELLO: Yes.
I was having a little bit of trouble, because the Web site was so overloaded with people trying to get on to find out what the decision was. It took us a while. But, in essence, the New Jersey State Supreme Court affirmed gay marriage, 4-3. In other words, they said yes. They said that same-sex couples have the same rights under the state constitution as heterosexual couples do. They will leave the exact name to the democratic process. Now, what that exactly means is, they passed a ruling very similar to what was passed in Vermont. There, they said gays could get -- get married. But the legislature passed a civil union law.
So, in the state of Vermont, gay marriage is called civil union, which is really marriage, except the name is different. So, again, the New Jersey State Supreme Court affirmed gay marriage, so to speak, 4-3. And what will probably happen, it will go to the New Jersey legislature, which will pass a law allowing civil unions in the state of New Jersey.
LEMON: All right. Carol Costello, thank you. Thank you very much for that.
We're going to go from Carol to Jeffrey Toobin, who is CNN's senior legal analyst.
Jeffrey, what -- explain to us what this means. I -- I imagine you're looking at the legislation there.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: The decision means basically a victory for the -- the -- the gay folks who brought the case.
And New Jersey will have to recognize that gay people have the same rights to this relationship as straight people. However, the -- the court dodged the issue of what it will be called and left to the legislature the issue of whether it will be called partnership or actual marriage.
So, I think the court, probably wisely, avoided the incendiary issue of the word marriage, but basically wants gay people to have the same rights as straight people.
LEMON: And, Jeffrey, this has, of course, been a huge issue throughout the election years. And we sort of went through this in Massachusetts, I believe it was, back in '03 -- at the end of '02, and then '03.
What exactly does this mean? Does this set some kind of a precedent that...
TOOBIN: Well...
LEMON: ... roll across the country to other places?
TOOBIN: That's very unlikely, because this decision is strictly based on the New Jersey Constitution, not the U.S. Constitution.
So, other than as a symbolic issue, this -- this will have no application in other states, because each state will evaluate it under its own constitution. In the way that Massachusetts said its constitution mandates gay marriage, New York recently said it does not mandate gay marriage. New Jersey has taken somewhat of a middle ground, but it doesn't transfer to any other state. LEMON: Yes. And -- and I also remember, back during that -- '02 or '03, when it happened in Massachusetts, and then I think it also happened somewhere in Canada, people were going there to get married, and then going back to their own jurisdictions, and then finding out, Jeffrey, that their marriages were not necessarily legal where they lived.
TOOBIN: That -- that's right. And -- and that's, in part, because of what Congress did in its Defense of Marriage Act, that these marriages have not been recognized in -- in -- in other states.
And that's something that the -- the courts will be dealing with, as -- as -- as this sort of sorts itself out. And another question is whether people from out of state can get married. At first, in Massachusetts, lots of people were going there. Lots of gay people were going there to get married. But, then, Massachusetts said, no, it is basically only for Massachusetts residents. That's something that New Jersey will have to deal with in the future.
LEMON: And, Jeffrey, this has been in the court since February. That's when seven gay and lesbian couples challenged the state's right to marry. And the lower courts had previously denied the couple's right.
And one of the -- one person involved in this I think died back in 2005, after battling Lou Gehrig's disease. And I think part of the question was in this is, during the time of the disease, one of the partners in all this didn't have access to the medical records, couldn't decide what happens with their partner after that.
So, does this -- I -- I would imagine these people, from here forward, at least until this is challenged, in New Jersey will have those rights.
TOOBIN: That's right. I mean, they will be able to have some sort of legal partnership. It will be up to the legislature now to figure out what to call it, and to define the precise parameters. But this certainly seems like more of a victory for the gay -- the gay couples than -- than a defeat.
LEMON: All right. CNN senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin, thank you very much.
Let's go back to Carol Costello, who is in New York.
Carol, you were sitting there when the decision came down. Do you have any more news for us? What's -- what else is coming off the Web site?
COSTELLO: Well, you know, the next step is what the New Jersey legislature is going to do. It has six months to do something. It has to enact some kind of thing.
You heard Jeffrey Toobin alluding to that. It either has to say, you know, there could be civil unions for gay couples in New Jersey. They could call it something else. But they do have to act within a six-month period. And it should mean that gay couples have pretty much the same rights as heterosexual couples, you know, either in a civil union or a marriage.
LEMON: And this is something I wanted to ask Jeffrey Toobin, but -- if we can get him back, it would be great.
But I wanted to ask him, if all these people go out and get married, Carol -- and I'm sure this is a question -- and, then, in six months, because they have six months, this is going to -- someone is going to appeal it, right?
COSTELLO: Oh...
LEMON: Well, how does that...
COSTELLO: ... probably.
LEMON: How will that play in the courts? Will it -- will it make -- will their unions be legal? Will they not be legal? What happens in -- in that interim? That's -- these are all questions...
(CROSSTALK)
COSTELLO: Well, in New Jersey, I think it's pretty much over.
But the -- the...
LEMON: Yes.
COSTELLO: The interesting thing will be, since New Jersey doesn't have a residency requirement...
LEMON: Right.
COSTELLO: ... others can come into the state. They can -- they can get a civil union. Then, they can go back to their state.
LEMON: Right.
COSTELLO: They will take that to court. And those courts in other states will have to fight it out.
LEMON: All right, Carol Costello, Jeffrey Toobin, thank you both very much for joining us.
PHILLIPS: Well, straight ahead: five brutal deaths that Gainesville, Florida, will never forget -- 16 years later, the convicted killer counts down his last hours, while Gainesville relives terrifying memories.
We have got the story right here in the NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Tonight's planned execution of Danny Rolling in Florida will be the state's third this year, the 63rd since Florida reinstated the death penalty back in 1979. And it is expected to draw the largest turnout since Ted Bundy was electrocuted in 1989.
Now, Josh Rojas from Bay News 9 has more on how Danny Rolling became one of Florida's most notorious killers.
Danny, how you doing?
JOSH ROJAS, BAY NEWS 9 REPORTER: Don, we just learned in a press conference with the prison's director of communications that serial killer Danny Rolling had a supervised shower about an hour ago in this Florida state prison, where he was also given the clothing he's going to be executed in, black pants and a white shirt.
This morning, Rolling was allowed to have a physical contact visit with his brother and spiritual adviser as the 52 year-old prepares to pay with his life for the brutal crimes he committed in nearby Gainesville.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROJAS (voice-over): Evil has a face and voice.
DANNY ROLLING, FLORIDA DEATH ROW INMATE (singing): What were my words or my tears run together, baby.
ROJAS: That's serial killer Danny Rolling, also known as the Gainesville Ripper. He got that title after viciously murdering five college students in the summer of 1990.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've done a lot of shootings. I've seen a lot of violence. Been at the scene a lot of times. I would say that this one stuck with me more than any other.
ROJAS: The first victims were found August 26. Sonja Larson and Christina Powell's naked bodies were discovered at their apartment complex. Both had been stabbed to death. The next day, another gruesome crime scene. Police find Christa Hoyt's decapitated body crucified to her apartment wall. Her head is in a book case. Then on the third day, August 28th, the bodies of roommates of Tracy Paules and Manuel Taboada are discovered in their apartment. They, too, had been stabbed to death. Three of the women Rolling attacked were also raped.
The murders gripped those living in Gainesville in fear and terror. Rolling was arrested in Ocala on robbery charges just 12 days after the first bodies were found. But it would be eight months later before DNA evidence tied him to the Gainesville murders.
Rolling pled guilty to the murders in early 1994 and was sentenced to death three months later. At the time, a victim's brother says he won't feel peace until Rolling is executed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The healing which started at that point -- it's not that the healing is starting now. I think it would start from that point on.
(END VIDEOTAPE) ROJAS: And the healing for those victims' families should start at 6:00 tonight. That's the time Danny Rolling is going to be executed by lethal injection. We also now know what Rolling's last meal was. The prison director says Rolling had lobster tail, butterfly shrimp, a baked potato, strawberry cheese cake and sweet tea.
Back to you.
LEMON: All right. And we mentioned that this would be the largest turnout, Josh, since Ted Bundy was electrocuted back in 1989. What kind of crowds are they expecting? Will it be supporters of the death penalty or protesters?
ROJAS: Don, it's going to be a little bit of both. The prison guards say they expect a few hundred people to show up out here later this afternoon. In fact, take a live look at this field behind me. The guards have divided it with yellow crime scene tape to keep the protesters and supporters separated. One guard says a man who shows up in support for every execution is already here.
Don, back to you.
LEMON: All right, thank you very much.
Josh Rojas reporting from Bay News 9 for us.
Most statements about U.S. policy in Iraq coming from an unlikely source.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I adamantly oppose the war in Iraq. I don't feel American people, Iraqi civilians or American service members benefit from it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Some military men and women currently serving, breaking rank less than two weeks before election day. That's just ahead in the CNN NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez caused a sensation with his fiery speech last month to the United Nations. And even after his exit from the stage, he's still making his presence felt at the U.N. He wants Venezuela to join the 15 member Security Council, but he's having trouble rounding up the votes.
Let's join our senior U.N. correspondent Richard Roth -- Richard.
RICHARD ROTH, SENIOR U.N. CORRESPONDENT: Well, right now inside a U.N. General Assembly meeting, they're trying for the 36th time to settle a deadlocked issue between Venezuela and Guatemala, who's going to get the two-year nonpermanent seat on the U.N. Security Council? Venezuela has a hardcore block of about 80 countries that's not willing to budge despite U.S. pressure, which is supporting Guatemala and other countries. Now the surge appears to be on for a compromise candidate, even though Guatemala and Venezuela really don't want to give up.
But Hugo Chavez today said in Venezuela that it's a moral victory, a great moral victory for his country because the U.S. has been unable to quash Venezuela's U.N. candidacy. Venezuela says it prefers Bolivia, if it can't get the seat. Chile has been watching anxiously while Latin America and Caribbean countries have not been able to settle this issue.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HERALDO MUNOZ, CHILEAN AMBASSADOR TO THE U.N.: We feel that the votes won't change substantially, so that we're putting all our bets on the meeting between the two foreign ministers tomorrow in the hope that, indeed, there will be a candidate of unity, a candidate of consensus of the Latin America-Caribbean group.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROTH: That is Chile's United Nations Ambassador Heraldo Munoz, who is waiting now for the vote totals to be announced from the latest meeting of the United Nations General Assembly.
Due to a concert, Don, they're meeting in a basement conference room. Maybe the switch in venues will produce a different result, but few expect that. And maybe there'll be progress tomorrow announced if there is any type of compromise agreed to in that meeting between Venezuela and Guatemala.
Guatemala has never been on the Security Council. Venezuela has been secretly representing a lot of countries which don't like Bush administration policies here. They've been able to get back at Washington through the secret ballot.
Back to you.
LEMON: All right. Richard Roth.
Optimism, glass half full. You never know, a change of venue could help.
Thank you, sir.
Speaking out against the war in Iraq, not politician, not loved ones, but troops in Iraq and others on active duty.
CNN's Miles O'Brien reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
M. O'BRIEN (voice over): Calls to end the war in Iraq are nothing new, but now those calls are coming from a surprising source. SGT. LIAM MADDEN, U.S. MARINE CORPS: I adamantly oppose the war in Iraq. I don't feel American people, Iraqi civilians or American service members benefit from it.
M. O'BRIEN: Marine Sergeant Liam Madden is home from a seven- month tour of duty in Iraq. He's still on active duty and he's one of 118 active duty service members speaking out against the war.
BRIG. GEN. DAVID GRANGE (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: For active duty members, I think it's very unusual. The 30 years I served in the military, I don't recall that ever happening.
M. O'BRIEN: Military rules prohibit active duty soldiers from lobbying in uniform or denouncing elected officials.
GARY SOLIS, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY LAW CENTER: If they were to insult the president personally or the secretary of defense personally, yes, they could face charges, particularly, most clearly, if they were officers.
M. O'BRIEN: They say they're shielded by whistleblower protection laws that give soldiers the freedom to file complaints with members of Congress. Senators in both parties are denouncing the protest, but the White House is downplaying the opposition.
TONY SNOW, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: It's not unusual for soldiers in a time of war to have some misgivings.
MADDEN: There are some important issues that people need to raise. And this is one very close to my heart.
Miles O'Brien, CNN, New York
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: All right. Let's talk about all this.
And joining us to talk about this, Jonathon Pukto (ph), an active duty sailor in the Navy. His comments today are his own views and do not reflect Navy positions.
Also with us, retired U.S. Army Ranger Staff Sergeant Andy Davis.
Thank you both for joining us.
JOHNATHAN HUTTO, U.S. NAVY: Thank you.
LEMON: We heard the president today. Do we stay in? Do we get out?
HUTTO: Well, I think first and foremost -- this is Seaman Hutto here from Norfolk. -- I think first and foremost, what we're attempting to do here is win our political leaders to the principle that we have to withdraw. And I think once we can win our political leadership to that principle, then we can begin to have a discussion about what's the best way for us do that. LEMON: Well, Seaman Hutto, let's talk about that. I mean, give us a reality check. You were there on the ground, am I correct?
HUTTO: No, I was not there.
LEMON: You were not there on the ground?
HUTTO: I was not on the ground. I'm a sailor. So I was deployed right off the coast, where we could see Iraq. But as stationed on the United States aircraft carrier, the job of the aircraft carrier is to launch planes and to drop ordinance, drop bombs on targets and suspects.
LEMON: There are going to be those who say you weren't actually on the ground in the middle of it, and so I don't know if they will understand your position on this. Andy Davis...
STAFF SGT. ANDY DAVIS (RET.), U.S. ARMY: Yes.
LEMON: What do you think of that? You served in Iraq.
DAVIS: Yes, I was on the ground in Iraq, and I think we'd be sadly mistaken to withdraw from Iraq any time soon. This war is about a larger ideology, not just about the country of Iraq, not just about the country of Afghanistan or Iran or Syria. This is much larger, and it's a threat to our way of life.
And that's not just fear-mongering. I can tell you story after story of my own experiences in Iraq and Afghanistan, as well as friends and family and some of the 40,000 people that are part of this coalition that I'm a part of, united for our troops and their mission, who have lost loved ones and still believe in the mission. And I am one of those folks.
LEMON: Did you both listen to the president this morning? The president held a press conference this morning talking about Iraq. Instead of using stay the course now, he's saying we're adjusting tactics. Let's take a little listen of what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: As the enemy shifts tactics, we are shifting our tactics as well. Americans have no intention of taking sides in a sectarian struggle or standing in the crossfire between rival factions. Our mission is to help the elected government in Iraq defeat common enemies, to bring peace and stability to Iraq and make our nation more secure.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Sergeant Davis?
HUTTO: I think that...
LEMON: Well, we'll go with you, Mr. Hutto. I was going to get Sergeant Davis' response, but go ahead. HUTTO: Well, just real quickly, I can't speak to what you just played specifically, but I will say that this current war on terror is a global war on terror. It's not an Iraqi war on terror. OK, it's a global war on terror that has enemies to America all over the world, from al Qaeda that has a global guerrilla network all over the world, to Iran, to North Korea and beyond.
So I think, as the "New York Times" said on October 1st, you know, America's army is not just on the edge, but stretched beyond its capacity. And it's time for us to reassess that overstretchedness. You're talking about two-thirds of your National Guard currently in Iraq. You know, you're talking about a reserve force right now that cannot meet its quota. You're talking about a military that, in order to meet its quota for this year, had to raise the -- had to actually lower, excuse me, the standards, lower the age standards from 35 to 42.
LEMON: There is no doubt that...
DAVIS: We're also talking about record reenlistment rates in country, in Iraq and in Afghanistan in folks that are volunteering for four, five, six tours. Friends of mine have done eight tours in both those countries.
HUTTO: And we're also talking about a war that...
LEMON: You know what, there is no -- I don't think there's any doubt -- even the administration and people on the ground will admit that the troops are stretched. They are stretched. But then also today and yesterday, the generals met. Today the president said that more troops -- yesterday the general said that more troops may have to be called out.
Earlier in the week, Amara was taken over. The southern city in Iraq near Baghdad was taken over by Shiite militia for a while. And then during that, all that chaos, some of the generals there were calling for -- saying that this was a civil war-type tactics that had to be used in order to get this part of the city, at least, back in order.
Let's take a listen to one of our generals who was on the air when this was happening.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRIG. GEN. DAVID GRANGE (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: What it takes right now is a dual strategy of George Marshall and Ulysses S. Grant. You have to continue with the compassion of trying to build some type of prosperity and way of life for the Iraqi people, like Marshall would do after World War II. And you have to be ruthless like Grant during the civil war. And right now, they cannot let the militia get away with taking over a city.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Sergeant Davis, again, you were on the ground. Do you agree with those statements?
DAVIS: I wholeheartedly agree. And I think we should always be looking for shifts in tactics. If you get stuck in one mode of operation, the enemy picks up on that and takes advantage of it. I think there's many times that we tie our own hands on the ground. And I've always called for changes in tactics, but the overall idea of the war and many countries, many different folks from many different nationalities are fighting us in Iraq. It's not just Iraqis and it's not just the -- you know, we can just blame America. There's a lot of folks that just want to see us dead, and we need to remember that.
But beyond that, we should always look for a change in tactics. And you talked about a sound byte earlier from the president. And we've looked at sound byte over the last two years about Iraq, even longer, from Congressman Murtha, from President Bush and everybody. And I don't think how we classify the war is the important part. It's show we fight it and how we trust the folks on the ground. And I think far too often, we politicize it with without talking about how we're fighting the war and how we're treating those who are fighting the war.
HUTTO: If I could get in here real quickly.
LEMON: Go ahead.
HUTTO: I think this -- I mean, for me, as a United States sailor, although I'm not speaking of behalf of the Navy, it is an insult, honestly, to continue to stress this on the ground strategy. Even though, when I say that you mean, in the sense that sailors have contributed to this war, as well, OK. They have deployed, they have loaded bombs, they have helped bombs be dropped. They have participated in this, as well, and they have a voice, too. So I want to stress that.
LEMON: I don't think anyone is doubting that, but I think that those who are on the ground actually who are in the middle of that fighting usually end up putting their lives on the line.
DAVIS: We're talking about...
(CROSSTALK)
HUTTO: I would say every...
LEMON: Unfortunately, that's going to have to be the end of it. We're running out of time. Thank you both for joining us today here...
HUTTO: Appealforredress.org.
LEMON: ... in the CNN NEWSROOM.
DAVIS: Thank you.
HUTTO: Appealforredress.org. LEMON: The New Jersey Supreme Court has spoken on the issue of same-sex marriage. The ruling and what it means straight ahead in the CNN NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: A story that broke just a short while ago. The New Jersey Supreme Court has spoken on same-sex marriage. Let's head straight to CNN's Carol Costello in New York for the latest on this just released ruling, Carol.
COSTELLO: It has made gay couples of the state of New Jersey very happy. The Supreme Court ruled that gay couples have exactly the same rights as heterosexual couples. But it is now up to the New Jersey state legislature to decide what to call that, whether they call it civil union or whether they call it gay marriage.
The legislature will have to decide that within six months. But again, the New Jersey State Supreme Court affirmed that gay couples have exactly the same rights as heterosexual couples. The same rights as they would be to get married or to undergo a civil union. We'll just have to see how the New Jersey state legislature rules in six months.
LEMON: Yes, OK, Carol Costello. And we'll be following that story throughout the day and throughout the evening right here on CNN. Thank you for joining us.
Closing bell and a wrap of the action on Wall Street straight ahead. Plus, pulling the plug on kids classics.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you've got a particularly bad lawn, the more flamingos you put out, the less you notice the lawn.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: After nearly 50 years, the pink flamingo is going to the way of the dodo bird. Say it isn't so, say it ain't so. The NEWSROOM straight ahead with all the sad details.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Are you sitting down? I hope you are. This next story is shocking and schlockingly on so many levels. The birthplace of the pink flamingo is closing. We're all sad and upset here, too. For more on the story, we turn it over to David Wade from WFXT in Boston, Massachusetts. Yes, I said Massachusetts. I told you, you'd be shocked.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID WADE, WFXT CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The pink flamingo, a rare bird. Americana, it is actually not made in China. Our long necked neon friends are made in Leominster, if you didn't know, inside this less flashy factory at Union Products Inc. Don Featherstone created the bird back in 1957.
DON FEATHERSTONE, PINK FLAMINGO CREATOR: I started with a duck and a flamingo. Both of those have been top sellers.
WADE: Pilgrims, turkeys, Uncle Sam followed. But none had the impact of the plastic bird. Some called them tacky, but that didn't ruffle Don Featherstone's -- well ...
FEATHERSTONE: If you've got a particularly bad lawn, the more flamingos you put out, the less you notice the lawn.
WADE: Union Products called it a moneymaker. And very quickly Leominster called itself the birthplace of the pink flamingo. Mayor Dean Mazzarella...
DEAN MAZZARELLA, MAYOR, LEOMINSTER: I can't explain it. I keep looking at it saying what in the world's got everyone's attention.
WADE: But now, because of rising costs, Union Products is shutting down on November 1st. The end of an era, but not necessarily the end of the flamingo. You see, the company is for sale and whoever buys it will also get the mold to make the original pink flamingo. Leominster may lose the company, but promises not to lose its identity.
MAZZARELLA: We're happy to be flamingo city.
WADE: And why not? The flamingo may be attack, but it has survived for 50 years. The bird of a different feather who can live in any weather, but apparently not in this business climate.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: It's too cold in Massachusetts for the pink flamingo anyway.
Now can you stand just one more jaw dropping fact? The pink flamingo is not and has never been the official state bird of Florida. The honor belongs to the mockingbird. And in light of current events, we humbly submit that perhaps Florida lawmakers should reconsider.
Let's ahead now to Washington and check in with CNN's Wolf Blitzer standing by in "THE SITUATION ROOM" to tell us what's coming up at the top of the hour. Hey, Wolf.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, thanks very much, Don.
Happening now, the New Jersey Supreme Court signs off on the rights of same-sex couples. But does this mean they can now get married? We're going to take a closer look at the fine print. Plus, President Bush on the harsh realities of war in Iraq. An appeal to the American public 13 days before the critical midterm elections.
Plus, the control of Congress hanging in the balance. We'll speak to Ohio's two Senate candidates. They're both standing by here in "THE SITUATION ROOM." And did Rush Limbaugh's criticism of Michael J. Fox go too far? I'll ask the head of the Republican National Committee, Ken Mehlman. All that, coming up right here in "THE SITUATION ROOM."
LEMON: Hey Wolf, are you a fast texter on your BlackBerry? Do you do it pretty quickly?
BLITZER: My thumb is pretty good.
LEMON: Your thumb is good, all right.
BLITZER: I've got two good thumbs.
LEMON: All right, check this out. We'll see you a little bit later, but check this out. You've seen how fast people can send text messages, thumbs flying across tiny keys. A software company has come up with a machine that text messages faster than the fastest teen. Eighteen-year-old Ben Cook is the world's fastest text messenger. Well this week he went up against a software program developed by Nuance Communication. It took him 48 seconds to send the 27-word message you see on your screen. The new software did it in just 16 seconds. Hmm.
I know the next person is going to pop up on your screen right there, there he is, is a really, really fast text messenger. I get messages from you all the time. I'm sitting here -- these keys are so little, though don't you think? It is hard to do.
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