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Firefighters Battle California Blaze; Threats Made Against Western Interests in Persian Gulf; Four Arrested in Florida Turnpike Murders; Judiciary Under Attack?

Aired October 27, 2006 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone, I'm Kyra Phillips, live at the CNN World Headquarters in Atlanta.
DON LEMON, CO-HOST: And I'm Don Lemon.

In the line of fire.

PHILLIPS: Four lives lost battling the blaze in California. Who could have started this deadly fire? An arson investigator weighs in.

LEMON: A family killed. Did a close relative with a bad reputation have anything to do with their deaths? New details on that investigation.

PHILLIPS: She didn't expect to be living without him so soon. Now her life is changing in other ways. Hear the struggles of a war widow.

LEMON: Southern California's deadly wildfire, out of control and spreading fast. Investigators call it arson, and they're talking murder charges after four firefighters were killed.

Let's get the very latest now from CNN's Thelma Gutierrez, who is right in the middle of all this firefight.

Thelma, any progress?

THELMA GUTIERREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I can tell you that that progress is very difficult to make right now. It's very windy. It's very dusty. And it's very smoky.

Now typically about this time of the day, you might have a new assessment on the acreage that's burned and the amount of structures that had been lost. But so far, we've been told by the CDF that that is really impossible because they would normally fly, they would assess this damage from the air. Right now, though, too windy, too dangerous, to put that chopper in the air. So no new assessments.

Now, the winds are about 15 to 25 miles an hour with gusts of up to 30 miles an hour. The terrain in this area is so rugged, so steep, it's very difficult for fire crews to get up, to fight this fire. In many cases, the only way to do it and to reach some areas is by an air assault.

Again, too dangerous right now to put any of the aircraft in the air, according to the CDF. They say that right now they have 1,100 firefighters who have had to actually walk up into some of these areas to try to fight this fire.

A vast number of those firefighters happened to be inmate crews. Those are prisoners who are trained to fight the fires on the ground. They are armed only with a shovel in many cases, a pick ax, and then they go to areas where bulldozers and engines cannot go.

We talked also to a photographer who went into the area last night and talked about how dangerous, how frightening, it was, to be caught up in the fire storm.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TIM WALTON, PHOTOJOURNALIST: On the ridge tops where you see flames, they vary anywhere from 35 to probably 150 feet in the air. And as they built with intensity and the wind drives them, they also create a little bit of weather of their own and a life of their own. And they -- you imagine that that is almost a living creature. You know, it's almost -- it's alive. It's -- you know, fire is a very mysterious thing, and it will do whatever it wants.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTIERREZ: And some of -- those are some of the same conditions that the five firefighters faced on the first day of this fire when their engine was overtaken by a wall of flames that came up over a ridge as they were trying to protect a structure. Three firefighters were killed at the scene. Two were airlifted to a nearby burn center. One died a few hours later, and another is now fighting for his life, with burns over 95 percent of his body.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEANNE WADE EVANS, U.S. FOREST SERVICE: The five Forest Service employees were on Engine Crew 57 on the San Jacinto Ranger District. They were dispatched early yesterday morning to assist in a state- managed wildfire, the Esperanza incident. They were engaging in structure protection and fire-fighting activities when they were overrun by flames.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTIERREZ: Fire officials say there is no mistake: this is arson. And because four firefighters were killed in this fire, this is now a case of murder. Several agencies are now investigating. And they've put up a $100,000 reward leading to the arrest and conviction of the arsonist involved.

Back to you.

LEMON: Yes, Thelma, just really a sad story, all the way around. We talked about the terrain yesterday. We actually saw some of it. I know you're not a meteorologist, but tell us about the weather conditions. What kind of problems are they creating for firefighters? GUTIERREZ: Well, you know, that's probably the worse thing. That's the most frustrating thing out here, according to the fire fighters. They say that typically this is the time that you would put your choppers on the air. You would begin your air assault at daylight. That's the time that you could actually get on top of this fire.

But I can tell you just from standing here, it is extremely windy. It is smoky. It's dusty. And so to put those -- to begin that air assault would be extremely dangerous. And that's why they have not been able to begin.

So they say that when you look at low humidity, we're talking seven percent last night, you're talking about 25 mile an hour winds. This is just absolutely ripe for another disaster.

LEMON: Thelma Gutierrez, thank you so much for your report.

PHILLIPS: You heard what she mentioned, hot, dry and windy. Rob Marciano, any relief in sight for those firefighters?

(WEATHER REPORT)

PHILLIPS: I tell you what, those animations, Rob, those are pretty outstanding.

ROB MARCIANO, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Pretty slick, yes. I'm a visual guy. It certainly helps to see something like that.

PHILLIPS: Absolutely. All right. Thanks so much.

MARCIANO: You bet.

PHILLIPS: Reports just coming into the newsroom now, threats against western interests in the Persian Gulf and Saudi Arabia. Let's get to the Pentagon.

CNN's Barbara Starr is working it for us -- Barbara.

BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Kyra. Well, you know, over the years, there certainly have been any number of reports about al Qaeda threats against western interests in Saudi Arabia, against the oil industry and the oil infrastructure, the pipelines and terminals in that country.

Apparently, over the last couple of weeks, there have been a number of reports of potential threats against those facilities in Saudi Arabia. And now, today, reports that both British and U.S. warships on their regular patrols out in the Persian Gulf waters are keeping a much closer eye on the Saudi oil infrastructure because of these recent reports.

Both the Royal Navy and the United States Navy in the Middle East have put out statements to that effect. And the statement coming from the U.S. Navy says, quote, "We support the recommendation that commercial mariners be especially vigilant while transiting the gulf." What they're talking about, of course, is their concern that the commercial shipping up and down the gulf would potentially be at risk if an al Qaeda attack was launched.

So because of these recent reports -- which no one can be very specific about. There's no time, date or place; simply reports of threats. But because of all of that, nonetheless, maritime forces keeping a much closer eye on things today -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: So how common are these types of threats, then?

STARR: Pardon me?

PHILLIPS: How common are these types of threats?

STARR: I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you due to technical problems.

Well, you know, they're not uncommon, unfortunately, in today's age. As one official said, look, you could look at any two weeks' worth of intelligence reports and would likely see an al Qaeda threat report somewhere in the Middle East.

But what they look for of course is whether the report is credible, whether it's validated by a second source, and whether there's a time, date and place attached to it. At this point, if there is, on this threat of reporting, we don't know it. Officials are telling us it's simply reports that they have. They don't have any more than that.

PHILLIPS: All right, Barbara, thanks.

LEMON: Well, it was a shocking crime. Four members of a family, including two children, found shot to death along the Florida Turnpike. Two weeks later, there may be a break in the case.

CNN national correspondent Susan Candiotti joins us from West Palm Beach -- Susan.

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Don.

Here's that major development. Four people are now being held in connection with this case, although police are being very careful at this stage to describe them only as persons of interest.

However, one police official is saying that we believe the shooter or shooters is one of these four people they have in custody or possibly one other person that they're still looking for.

The four that are in custody are three men and one woman. They live in Palm Beach County, Florida. And they are being held on federal drug charges. Here is what the sheriff of Saint Lucie County had to say about a possible motive.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Despite the crime's initial appearance as a possible random act of violence on a family traveling on the Florida Turnpike, our investigation quickly led us to believe that this was a deliberate act of premeditated murder on the Escobedo family for drugs, money or both.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CANDIOTTI: Police have also recovered a 1999 red Dodge conversion van. It's currently being gone over for any evidence. They are looking for the owner of it. The registered owner is a Michael Naujalis. They would like to talk to him. And, again are lumping him in with these other four people being described as persons of interest.

We are finding out, through court documents filed in connection with the arrest of those first four people we told you about, what they found inside their rental homes, and that included crack cocaine, according to these documents, ecstasy pills, packaging materials for drugs, as well as 13 firearms, a cache of weapons including two nine millimeter semiautomatics and an AK-47 that was recovered from a master bedroom.

Also according to new court documents revealed today, in the Escobedo family home -- this is the family that was murdered -- they talked about finding a drug ledger, packaging materials for drugs, as well as a note that says, "Owed D.V. money." D.V. being the nickname, the initials of one of the four people already in custody.

So some major developments here. Again, to remind you, the Escobedo family killed two weeks ago this day.

Back to you.

LEMON: Susan, it's just sad that two children, especially, caught up in the middle of all this.

Here's what I want to ask you. I know that there are search warrants out. Any information -- are we getting any information from the search warrants?

CANDIOTTI: No, the search warrants are technically sealed. But we have found out through the back door about these -- what was found inside the homes as I just described to you. That's from court documents filed in connection with the drug arrests of the four people who are in custody.

LEMON: All right. Susan Candiotti, West Palm Beach, Florida, thank you very much for your report.

PHILLIPS: Straight ahead, Michael J. Fox took heat for taping a political ad, now he's responding to the criticism. Ahead from the NEWSROOM, Fox talks about his decision to join the political debate over stem cell research.

LEMON: The law, politics, and public opinion. Our senior legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin, talks with members of the high court about judges on trial. Hear from him and them ahead in the CNN NEWSROOM. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Actor Michael J. Fox sounds off on the controversy over his appearance in campaign ads. Fox, who has Parkinson's Disease, is supporting candidates who call for expanded stem cell research. Fox appeared on "The CBS Evening News" to answer criticism by conservative talk show host Rush Limbaugh.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KATIE COURIC, ANCHOR, "THE CBS EVENING NEWS": I called Rush Limbaugh, and he told me, "I believe Democrats have a long history of using victims of various things as political spokespeople because they believe they are untouchable, infallible. They are immune from criticism."

MICHAEL J. FOX, ACTOR/ACTIVIST: Well, first thing, he used the word "victim", and on another occasion I heard him use the word "pitiable." Understand, nobody in this position wants pity. We don't want pity. I could give a damn about Rush Limbaugh's pity or anybody else's pity.

I'm not a victim. I'm someone who's in this situation. I think I'm in this situation along with millions other Americans, and we have a right, if there's answers out there, to pursue those answers with the full support of our politicians. And -- and so I don't need anyone's permission to do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Well, Rush Limbaugh apologized after suggesting that Fox was exaggerating his symptoms in a campaign ad.

LEMON: Well, critics call them activist judges. They're accused of overstepping the law on issues like gay marriage. And our senior legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin, had a rare opportunity to talk with one former and one sitting Supreme Court justice. They weighed in on the court's public opinion and politics.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SANDRA DAY O'CONNOR, FORMER SUPREME COURT JUSTICE: We saw legislation introduced to somehow restrict or affect judges at both the state and federal levels. And even public opinion polls about courts and judges showed an increase in dissatisfaction with the American public. And there was a great deal of rhetoric about activist judges, and that seemed to be a mantra of some kind.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Federal judges, they are appointed; they're not democratically elected. They serve, essentially, for life. Why should we trust you, rather than the government officials who are answerable to the people?

JUSTICE STEPHEN BREYER, SUPREME COURT: That's a very good question. Why would anyone want a system like ours in a democracy? The answer has to be, it's possible, despite those words on paper, that a majority could gang up on a minority. The prayer of the founders was that that wouldn't happen here.

I can remember in my youth Governor Orval Faubus.

ORVAL FAUBUS, FORMER GOVERNOR OF ARKANSAS: Well, the unusual thing about Arkansas is that...

BREYER: Stood in the school house door with the state militia and said, "The Supreme Court has told me to let the black children into the white school, but I won't. I won't do it."

It took more than the Supreme Court. It took President Eisenhower to send paratroopers to Little Rock, who took those children by the hand and walked into that white school, integrating the school, according to law.

I tell you that story -- it's one of many -- because it both shows a need for judges to be independent and, more important than that, it shows a need for people in the United States to understand how that independence is part of their life, why they might support it, why they might stand up for judicial decisions, even those that they think are very wrong.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Well, Jeffrey Toobin join us from New York with more on his documentary, "Judges on Trial", which airs tomorrow night at 8 p.m. Eastern.

Jeffrey, very interesting title there, "Judges on Trial". What does that mean?

TOOBIN: Well, you know, it's funny that we're talking about it today. Just yesterday, President Bush was out on the campaign trail, talking as Justice O'Connor said in our interview, about activist judges in New Jersey in the gay rights decision, the gay marriage decision.

We focus, in our documentary tomorrow, on the Terri Schiavo case, where the whole Congress and the president mobilized to essentially inject themselves into a legal controversy in Florida.

This is a time when a lot of judges are being attacked as undemocratic, as elitist, as activist. And we talk with Justice O'Connor, Justice Breyer, among others, about you know, how judges fit into the political system, because they're in the heart of it.

LEMON: Are there really activist judges or is it just a case of maybe someone turning the language in order to make it appear that way? Or...

TOOBIN: Well, it's certainly -- activism is in the eyes of the beholder.

LEMON: Right, right.

TOOBIN: You know, liberals were very upset about activist judges in Bush v. Gore when the Supreme Court essentially awarded the election to Bush. Conservatives are upset about judicial activism when courts in Massachusetts or New Jersey order gay marriage or some equivalent to be in -- to be part of the law...

LEMON: So Jeffrey...

TOOBIN: I think it's really in the eye of the beholder.

LEMON: So why are the judges on trial? Why are they on trial?

TOOBIN: Well, because they are the ones who are the targets of a lot of these attacks. There's a move in Congress that we talk about to have an inspector general put in, to look for ways to -- look for corruption in the judiciary. Something that Justice O'Connor very explicitly says she thinks is a terrible idea.

There are efforts in Congress to sort of put judges in their place and try to make them exercise their power a little less. That tension between the judiciary and the legislature, it's gone on for years. I mean, you -- and now you have the Supreme Court telling President Bush that his treatment and system in Guantanamo is unacceptable. The president made it clear he wasn't happy with that ruling.

LEMON: Right.

TOOBIN: That tension is a big part of contemporary politics, and that's what the documentary is about.

LEMON: Yes, it seems like this is a real flash point, a turning point. At least in my 40 year, I've never heard, except until recently, people saying "activist judges."

Now what do you think are the big turning points between the judges and the political system?

TOOBIN: Well, I think the social issues, which so often wind up in front of the courts -- abortion, gay rights, separation of church and state -- these are the issues that really engage people's passions.

And in our system, as Justice Breyer said in the interview, somebody has to have the last word. Somebody has to decide ultimately whether women have a right to abortion, whether gay people have a right to get married.

And it's always going to wind up, ultimately, in front of judges, not politicians. And because they have the last word, they're going to be upset about the decisions, and that's never going to go away.

LEMON: Jeffrey Toobin, always very insightful and always on point. Because the midterms are coming up, so it's always very timely. We thank you so much for joining us today.

TOOBIN: All done (ph). LEMON: And tune in this weekend for more on CNN's "Broken Government" series from the best political team on television. You can see Jeffrey Toobin's documentary, "Judges on Trial". It airs tomorrow night at 8 Eastern, on Sunday night at 7 p.m. Eastern. And Lou Dobbs' look at "Democracy at Risk" and the problems with electronic voting, as well.

PHILLIPS: Straight ahead, in the fire of the storm, from 800 acres to 24,000 in one day. Investigators call it arson. Hundreds of firefighters on the front lines. So is CNN. That's next from the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, we're most of the way through the earnings season. Things are looking pretty good for some of the world's biggest companies. Susan Lisovicz live from the New York Stock Exchange with the details.

Hey, Susan.

(STOCK REPORT)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Hundreds of firefighters on the front line, giving it all they've got. A wildfire still burning out of control. It has swept across 24,000 acres in Riverside County, California. That's about 38 square miles. The flames, driven by fierce winds, trapped five firefighters yesterday afternoon. Four of them died. The lone survivor has burns over 95 percent of his body. And authorities say the fire was intentionally set. And those responsible will face murder charges in caught. They're setting up a $100,000 reward for information leading to that arsonist's arrest.

Four foot drifts, and icy cold. That's direct contrast to what's happening in California. Coloradans are digging out after the biggest October snowstorm in several years. The snow has stopped, but there's still plenty of it on the roads and also on the runways. Thousands of homes are still without power as well. But ski resorts, they're skiing green and hoping all this snow will jumpstart their ski season.

(WEATHER REPORT)

PHILLIPS: Is Iran calling the U.N.'s bluff? An Iranian news agency reports that Iran has resumed its uranium-enrichment program, despite the threat of U.N. sanctions.

CNN's senior United Nations correspondent Richard Roth here in Atlanta today, joins us to talk about Iran and other issues facing the U.N. It's sort of like North Korea, Iran, it's like, OK, what's going to be the hot one today? Who's testing what, right?

RICHARD ROTH, CNN SR. U.N. CORRESPONDENT: It's like juggling two grenades, and you can't win that game. The Iranian situation seems to be in front, in the world concern, at least this weekend. Iran has made more developments with centrifuges and uranium, and all this means is that positions are hardening. They know sanctions could be in the offing. And they're saying, we're going to go ahead with our program, which they say is for peaceful purpose, not to make nuclear weapons. The French today are concerned, the British, the United States. They're going to be pushing for this resolution at the United Nations, a resolution that already Russia has problems with. Where have we heard this before? But it is a resolution that is going to impose a variety of sanctions in the nuclear field on Iranian leadership.

But they don't appear to be backing down. An Iranian cleric today in services said, why don't you stop with these games; you're only going to hurt yourself more than us.

PHILLIPS: That's interesting, stop playing these games. If you look at sanctions, whether it's North Korea or Iran -- Iran, you can all go way back to 1979, a lot of people step back and say, what point do you say, the issue of sanctions, no one ever sticks to what they're going to say, or this still isn't working, we're in the same position that we were decades ago.

ROTH: Well, it's that's so-called -- one of the tools in the diplomacy tool box, and it doesn't always work, and sometimes you can't change your regime, but you put pressure on, but Iran does supply oil and a lot of business dealings with China and Russia, and that may not be enough to overcome that. I mean, a lot of countries want to do business with Iran. U.S. sanctions haven't exactly changed the relationship between those two countries.

PHILLIPS: Let's talk about Sudan. This is something that we try to continually cover, whether it's here domestic or CNN international. What's the latest within the U.N. on this?

ROTH: Well, the big story this week has been that the U.N. special representative Jan Pronk was ordered to get out of Sudan by the government there. He had 72 hours to get out. The U.N. said he was recalled for discussions. He's about to brief the U.N. Security Council this afternoon. But what's happened is, sort of another diplomatic compromise, Kofi Annan says Pronk is going to go back to Sudan, to kind of close out his business, talk to someone who can manage the store. And then when his contract ends, at the end of the year, he's done.

But he might have been done anyway, because Kofi Annan's term is ending, but Sudan said he went over the live. He wrote on a personal blog comments, criticism of the Sudanese military overstepping his authority. We could probably talk a while about blogging and U.N. officials. It's another touchy issue for them. It was his own view, the U.N. says.

PHILLIPS: Then again, on the other side of things, a lot of people are saying, why isn't the U.S. putting more pressure on President Bashir, the president of Sudan?

ROTH: I know. We've heard the same thing for years now, but Sudan won't accept U.N. speakers. The U.S. says, we may have to go another way, but where's that other way? We haven't heard it. The United Nations Security Council is somewhat deadlocked on using force. They don't want to. As long as a member country is saying don't come in...

And yet, a genocide, according to some, continues there. And there has not been enough outrage, despite the protests, the demonstrations. It hasn't risen on top of the radar scope.

PHILLIPS: Well, something that continues to raise itself on the radar scope, an individual by the name of Hugo Chavez. We can't forget this moment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRES. HUGO CHAVEZ, VENEZUELA (through translator): The devil came here yesterday. Yesterday, the devil came here, right here. Right here. And it smells of sulfur still today. This table that I am now standing in front of, yesterday, ladies and gentlemen, from this rostrum, the president of the United States, the gentleman to whom I refer as the devil, came here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: He never does hold back on how he feels about the president of the United States.

ROTH: It's very possible, Kyra, that that speech may have cost Venezuela its chance to win a two-year non-permanent seat on the U.N. Security Council. It's possible that with the lower-keyed approach, they might have gotten the seat, but they've been in a deadlock with Guatemala now for over 35 votes in that same General Assembly where he said the devil was. And it looks like there will be a third country that will have to come forward, maybe Uruguay, Paraguay, to take the seat.

It's a shame for Guatemala. They've never been on the Security Council. A lot of countries like Venezuela will be ready to challenge the U.S. inside the Security Council. They have a solid bloc of 70, but that's not enough to get the required two-thirds of those voting to win a seat.

PHILLIPS: I think it's pretty easy to see why possibly Hugo Chavez of Venezuela hasn't had that seat, but why not Guatemala?

ROTH: Well, it's a payback to the U.S. The U.S. supported Guatemala, and there's a lot of animosity towards the Bush administration foreign policy inside the U.N. itself. And because it's a secret ballot, here's a chance to send a message to Washington that even if they don't like Venezuela, we're not going to let Washington dictate who they want.

Though Guatemala is saying, don't link us to Washington, we help on U.N. peacekeeping missions, we're a very good U.N. member country, never been on the Council. For them it may not be enough. They cannot win the required number of seats. It's an amazing kooky battle in the General Assembly. It's a great run. I mean, the U.S. will have its election. The General Assembly of the U.N. is having their own sort of Florida meets Ohio right now inside the General Assembly.

PHILLIPS: It wouldn't be the General Assembly, it wouldn't be the U.N., unless there was some sort of kooky battle, I think. Richard Roth.

ROTH: Thank you, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Appreciate it. Nice having you here.

ROTH: Nice to see you in person.

PHILLIPS: It's great to have you here.

LEMON: Kyra, did you -- you didn't get him to smile. We're always trying to get him to smile when we have him on satellite.

PHILLIPS: He -- are you kidding me? He was smiling all morning.

LEMON: Smile.

ROTH: I'm still smiling. But Don said the devil was here and I didn't feel like smiling.

LEMON: Oh, Richard Roth, thank you. All right. I'm going to move on from that.

PHILLIPS: He's always got a stinger, that's for sure.

LEMON: Have a great weekend, Richard.

A Muslim cleric on women's fashion. Coming up in the NEWSROOM, the unveiled remarks that have inflamed much of Australia.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: In Australia, a top Islamic cleric hits bottom over a sermon he gave about women. The subject: appearing in public without a veil. The quote: "If you take offer uncovered meat and place it on the street or in the garden or in the park and the cats come and eat it, whose fault is it, the cats or uncovered meat?" Well, many Australians are outraged, but the sheikh's loyal followers say they don't understand the fuss.

Here's Adrian Brown of Australia's Channel 7.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ADRIAN BROWN, AUSTRALIA CHANNEL 7 REPORTER (voice-over): He was well enough to leave his sick bed to buy the morning papers, not that they would have made happy reading. Outside his home, beside Lakemba Mosque, he offered a qualified apology for the recent sermon in which he compared scantily-dressed women to uncovered meat for animals to prey on. SHEIKH TAJ EL-DIN EL-HILALI, MUSLIM CLERIC: It's a misunderstanding. I respect the ladies in our society.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just appreciate that people are going to the mosque. It's worship day today.

BROWN: Friday prayers. Police and the sheikh supporters out in force.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everyone loves (INAUDIBLE). You ask anyone here. Everyone loves the (INAUDIBLE)

BROWN (on camera): But the sheikh is a good man?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, he's a very good man.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I support him, of course.

BROWN (voice-over): It was a day of adulation mixed with defiance.

(on camera): Will you resign, sir?

(voice-over): He won't do that, he says, until George Bush is swept out of office.

EL-HILALI: After they clean the world from the White House first.

BROWN (on camera): Despite the mounting calls on Sheikh Hilali to resign, it's clear that he has plenty of support within this community. But it's also clear that the divisions in this community are deepening.

SHEIKH FUTURE ZRIEKA, MUSLIM SPOKESMAN: At the moment, we're in damage control. We're trying to make sure the community doesn't fall apart.

BROWN (voice-over): Sheikh Hilali has apologized, but has yet to retract his comments. His only penalty, a two-month break from preaching while he travels overseas. Which is why the prime minister is worried.

JOHN HOWARD, AUSTRALIAN PRIME MINISTER: If it is not resolved, then unfortunately, people will run around saying, well, the reason they didn't get rid of him is that secretly some of them support his views.

BROWN: Adrian Brown, 7 News.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Well, it may be home, but neighbors aren't sweet on his return.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It has a dark shadow over it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Hackles are up in Hamilton, Alabama, as John Mark Karr is seen in the neighborhood. We've got the details, right here from the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Let's go straight to the Weather Center. Rob Marciano, getting word of a tornado warning. Rob, where is it?

(WEATHER REPORT)

PHILLIPS: Well, medical mistake or 30-year-old grudge? North Carolina prosecutors hope to prove the latter but say even if they do, they will not seek the death penalty against Sally Jordan Hill.

Hill worked as a nurse for a plastic surgeon. She's being held without bail on first degree murder charges in the 2001 death of Sandra Baker Joyner. Joyner moved from respiratory arrest after a mini facelift procedure. Her dead was initially classified as a medical error, but now investigators believe that Hill gave Joyner an overdose of a powerful painkiller.

They also believe that Hill turned off an alarm that would have signaled Joyner's breathing problems. Two witnesses have reportedly said that before that incident, Hill had talked about Joyner stealing her high school boyfriend in the early '70s. Hill's defense team disputes all those allegations.

LEMON: And this one is very interesting, because no judicial court has convicted him, but it doesn't seem to matter in the court of public opinion. There's word that John Mark Karr has left his father's home in Atlanta amid an uproar neighbors. In Alabama, if the Alabama sightings are accurate, Karr hasn't gone far, but he's still not finding a warm welcome.

Christie del Amo has the story from WBRC in Birmingham.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTIE DEL AMO, WBRC REPORTER (voice-over): News travels fast in small towns like Hamilton. So when John Mark Karr, who was briefly a suspect in the death of JonBenet Ramsey was spotted at a local store, word spread.

CAROL BARROW, HAMILTON, ALABAMA RESIDENT: I have a friend that knew him, went to school with him. And she IM'd me last night on the computer and said, guess who's back in town? And, you know, I didn't know. And she's like John Karr and I was like, oh, my gosh.

DEL AMO (on camera): Police Chief Billy Owen says Karr was seen at this Wal-Mart in Hamilton as early as Monday. He says he understands the community is concerned, but there's little the police department can do because he hasn't been convicted of anything.

(voice-over): We tried to reach Karr at his family's home in Hamilton. No one answered, but the lights were on in the house.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where do you go? Like you said, you know, when you're in trouble, you go home. And this is the home that he's always known.

DEL AMO: This woman lived nearby and didn't want her face shown but says she's concerned.

(on camera): What was your reaction when you heard that he was in town?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was angry. I was angry. We have looked at this house -- I pulled up to this house, and it has a dark shadow over it.

DEL AMO (voice-over): But others say they'll just keep to themselves, as long as Karr does the same.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Well, CNN did manage to get in touch with John Mark Karr's father this morning. His name is Wexford Karr. And he said strong reaction from his Atlanta neighbors made him fear for his son's safety. The two visited the home in Hamilton, Alabama but decided that wouldn't work out either, so the elder Karr says his son left a few days ago without saying good-bye and he doesn't know where he is now.

Well, she adamantly denies that she has an eating disorder but she admits that she's too thin. So Nicole Richie has checked into a treatment center to help her gain weight. Her publicist says that Richie is working with a team of doctors and specialists on nutrition, but insists it's not a treatment for an eating disorder.

Richie told "Vanity Fair" recently that she knows she's too thin, and she's not happy with the way she looks. Her reality show, "The Simple Life" with Paris Hilton, is on hold while Richie gets a little help.

LEMON: Well, rapper Snoop Dogg is out on bail this morning. Police say he was arrested yesterday after a gun and marijuana were found in his vehicle that was parked in a loading zone at the airport in Burbank, California. His lawyer says there's no basis for the arrest and predicts charges will be dismissed. Snoop Dogg, whose real name is Calvin Brodus, is due in court in December.

PHILLIPS: Straight ahead from the NEWSROOM, firefighters on the frontlines in a life or death battle. Live pictures now from our affiliate KABC our of Los Angeles. We'll have the latest on the raging California wildfire, coming up next.

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