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Remains Identified at Ground Zero; Sheriff's Department Employees Arrested for Selling Confiscated Arms, Drugs; Bush Stumps for Montana Senator; U.S. Searches for Missing Soldier

Aired November 02, 2006 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone, I'm Kyra Phillips, live from the CNN World Headquarters in Atlanta.
DON LEMON, CO-HOST: And I'm Don Lemon.

Charges of cop corruption in Virginia. A sheriff and his posse, instead of laying down a law, they're accused of running drugs and using a postal worker to help. CNN's Kelli Arena is on the case.

PHILLIPS: Operation Falcon. Nearly thousands of sex offenders taken off the streets. Where and how they were napped.

LEMON: Inside a secret regime, a lavish wedding fit for a princess. On the outside, families suffer: no health care and no money. CNN's Dan Rivers goes undercover from a rarely seen Asian nation.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

PHILLIPS: First this word just in to CNN. Authorities investigating the fire that killed five firefighters in Southern California will make a, quote, "significant announcement" about the case in the next hour. We're following that story. Stay with CNN for live coverage and the very latest right here from the NEWSROOM.

LEMON: And now for another developing story, we go straight to the newsroom and CNN's Carol Lin with the details -- Carol.

CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: You recall that there were some remains found at the World Trade Center site, Ground Zero -- the mic is on, I believe. You got it? We've got -- all right, let's straighten out the microphone problem before we...

LEMON: Carol's talking about some World Trade Center remains, as we watch her get together there, get her microphone correct. Some remains in the World Trade Center have been identified, and which is what we want to talk to her about. So I think she's ready to go now. Carol, fill us in.

LIN: Don, a couple of weeks ago there were remains found. It was very controversial. Families very upset about the continued cleanup at Ground Zero. We now have the identity of the people.

Karen Ann Martin, she was a 40-year-old head flight attendant on American Airlines Flight 11, which slammed into the World Trade Center's North Tower. It was the first plane to hit the World Trade Center.

Also, the remains of a passenger, Doug -- Douglas Joel Stone, 54 years old, a passenger on that flight.

Don, since those remains were found -- I mean, the families have always felt mixed feelings about the cleanup, feeling that more than 1,000 people's remains still had yet to be identified or found.

These remains were actually found in a manhole cover area that was -- there was a temporary road built over that manhole cover after 9/11 to allow traffic to go through there.

Well, during the cleanup, they found these remains. Since those remains were found, some 200 more body parts were found in that specific area.

The mayor of New York feeling very mixed feelings about this, as well. But not stopping the cleanup.

Still, some of the 9/11 families are gathering at the World Trade Center site today as a form of protest to try to get their point across, that they don't want any more cleanup, they don't want any more development of the site, until all the people, all the remains are accounted for, don.

LEMON: Yes, Carol, at least for these two families it may offer some solace, but it's amazing, really, the technology, considering the intensity of those blasts, that they were able to identify some of those remains.

LIN: Some of the -- some of the remains they're finding, Don, are only an inch of bone, but they've been able to do some DNA testing. Families right after 9/11 actually donated DNA samples...

LEMON: Right.

LIN: ... to allow that process to go forward.

LEMON: All right, Carol, thank you so much for that report.

PHILLIPS: Developing story now out of Virginia. A sheriff behind bars. He and 12 of his Henry County deputies sworn to uphold the law stand accused of putting guns and drugs seized from criminals back on the street. Seven others also are charged in this racketeering indictment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN BROWNLEE, U.S. ATTORNEY: This week, a federal grand jury for the western district of Virginia returned a 48-count indictment charging 20 individuals, including 13 current and former members of the Henry County Sheriff's Office, a former probation officer for Henry County, and a former employee of the United States Postal Service with multiple violation of federal law, including racketeering, illegal narcotics trafficking, theft of firearms, possession of stolen firearms, money laundering, making false statements, perjury, and obstruction of justice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: CNN's justice correspondent Kelli Arena on the case for us from Washington.

Kelli, what have you learned?

KELLI ARENA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kyra, this indictment alleges that, for the past eight years, drugs and guns that were seized by the Henry County Sheriff's Office were sold to citizens so that those people could resell them to the community. And some people allegedly kept the drugs and the guns for personal use.

The drugs included cocaine, steroids, marijuana, even the date rape drug, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: So who's protecting the people of Henry County now?

ARENA: Well, the -- the state police are coming in, the troopers are coming in, until they can get their act together.

Twenty people were charged, Kyra, including the sheriff, 12 of his uniformed employees. As you heard earlier, a probation officer, a postal worker, five citizens.

The deal was that William Reed, who was one of the indicted citizens, began Cooperating in this investigation after he was arrested last year. So he told investigators that he was a middle man. He paid a sheriff's sergeant to use his house to distribute the drugs.

Now, the sheriff -- his name is Frank Cassell -- was allegedly, according to the indictment, aware of everything that was going on, and he helped cover it up. Not only that, but he's charged with actually impeding the investigation. And he has been sheriff in Henry County for 14 years, part of this community for 14 years, Kyra.

This is a county that runs right along the North Carolina line. It's an area that's really fallen on some hard times. It's got an unemployment rate which is higher than the state average. This is not what this community needed.

PHILLIPS: All right. Kelli Arena, we'll keep following it, thanks.

LEMON: When it comes to politics, Montana could be nicknamed Bush country. He carried the state easily both times he ran for the White House. Now Mr. Bush is hoping his success will rub off on that state's embattled Republican senator.

CNN's Elaine Quijano join us now live from Billings -- Elaine.

ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello to you, Don.

That's right, President Bush is set to speak to a crowd of several thousand GOP faithful here in Billing', Montana. He's going to be stumping within the hour for the incumbent, Senator Conrad Burns. He's in a tough race against a Democratic challenger, Jon Tester.

Now Tester has tried to paint Senator Burns as someone who has been in Washington too long, reminding voters that Senator Burns received nearly $150,000 in contributions from Jack Abramoff and his associates. Burns returned that money. Nevertheless, he is still trying to fight that notion that he is a Washington insider who is not connected enough to the people of Montana.

Now the senator is also, though, turning to someone who's been in Washington for nearly six years, of course, President Bush, in order to try to reach out to members of the conservative base.

Now, in a sign of just how close the contest here in Montana is, it was just yesterday, in fact that Vice President Dick Cheney was here in the state, campaigning for Senator Burns, as well.

Now, for his part, Senator Burns has tied to paint Jon Tester as being too liberal for Montana. Don, look for those things, once again, when President Bush speaks here within the hour -- Don.

LEMON: All right, Elaine, thank you so much.

PHILLIPS: In Iraq today, an unfortunately familiar set of headlines. Assassinations, air strikes, firefights and developments in the case a missing U.S. Soldier in Baghdad.

Full details now from Aneesh Raman. He's live in Baghdad -- Aneesh.

ANEESH RAMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Kyra.

For the first time, the U.S. military today confirming not just the identity but providing a photo of the American soldier that was kidnapped back on October 23. He is 41-year-old Ahmed Qusai al- Taayie, an Iraqi-American, here as a translator.

The military, as well, today confirming the time line of events. It had been initially reported, on the ground source, to his mother- in-law. On October 23, Ahmed essentially left the Green Zone, had gone to visit his wife at her house. Three cars pulled up with gunmen who handcuffed him and took him away.

The initial contact was made to the family by the cell phone -- from the cell phone that Ahmed was carrying.

Now, at the press conference, Major General Caldwell, a weekly press conference, strength -- stressed, sorry, exhaustive measures have been under way to try to locate where the missing soldier was. He spoke of what is taking place as we speak.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAJ. GEN. WILLIAM CALDWELL, SPOKESMAN, MULTINATIONAL FORCE IN IRAQ: At this time, we believe the ones who kidnapped Ahmed currently still have him. We're using all our assets at our disposal to find him, and the government of Iraq is actively supporting this effort and doing everything it can, too, at its level.

Make no mistake; we will never stop looking for our service members. And intensive efforts will continue as we pursue finding our missing soldier, Specialist Ahmed al-Taayie.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAMAN: Now, there are some 2,000 U.S. troops involved in this effort, some 1,000 Iraqi troops, as well. And at that press conference, an allusion a little bit in that sound bite, to political dialogue that could be taking place. No suggestion with whom. But it had been thought from the start that the Mehdi militia, those loyal to radical Shia cleric Muqtada al-Sadr, may have had something to do with this -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Now, in an article in the "Military Review", a senior U.S. officer recently returned from helping train Iraqi troops, Aneesh. It offered a bleak assessment of the Iraqi army's ability to stand on its own. What else did the report have to say about the Iraqi army?

RAMAN: It raised some very disturbing, specific examples. It's a lieutenant colonel who spent a year advising an Iraqi army brigade, a year that ended this past June.

Some of the examples he gives in terms of boosting morale and efficiency. When Iraqi soldiers within this unit were out, a sniper fire shot, they would respond with all the ammunition they had. At times, when one sniper fire shot would come, they would respond for 90 minutes.

He spoke of them, as well, of them getting enraged when some of the other soldiers were killed. At one point, a rampage on a civilian community. In another, prolongated (sic) attacks.

It's all part, he writes, really, of a mind set that has to be changed, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Aneesh, I'm hearing gunfire in the background. Do we need to clear you? Do you know what's going on behind you?

RAMAN: We do not at the moment. I'm hearing it, as well. It could be celebratory gunfire for any number of reasons. But we are -- we're just going to walk away right now.

PHILLIPS: OK, we'll catch up with you.

LEMON: Understandable there.

America's uninsured, the numbers growing day by day. And it might surprise you to learn who can't afford health insurance. Dr. Sanjay Gupta is with us just ahead in the CNN NEWSROOM. PHILLIPS: Also ahead, ads that make you go "ugh." How political ads hit their mass -- or their mark, rather, straight ahead from the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Let's head over now to the breaking news desk, Carol Lin talking about a workplace shooting.

LIN: That's right. This is in Phoenix, Arizona, Don. It happened this morning outside a Pitney Bowes office equipment office in Phoenix. Someone, a man, opened fire, killing two employees. One of those employees was shot several times.

This is what Detective Stacy Dirch (ph) of the Phoenix Police Department had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He had a semiautomatic rifle, shot two people who were outside, also employees here at the business. And they have been transported to the hospital. I don't have an update on their condition. And the suspect is outstanding so we are currently investigating to try to find that suspect. We believe he left in a black Honda.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: All right. This is what we know so far about that suspect. Apparently, it's someone who worked there as a security guard but was recently terminated.

The suspect pulled his car up into the parking lot of this Pitney Bowes office, exited that vehicle and opened fire on those two people. Police do not know whether he actually knew those two victims. One of the victims apparently is a relatively new employee. But they do not think, Don, that this was a random act.

So -- excuse me, the two employees not dead, but they are in the hospital. And there is a manhunt going on right now. Local reporters have been asked not to reveal the name of that hospital, because they still feel that those two employees are in danger.

LEMON: Yes. Absolutely would make sense, the gunman would try to go there. All right. Thank you very much for that, Carol.

PHILLIPS: Another developing story, authorities investigating the fire that killed five firefighters in Southern California will make a, quote, "significant announcement" about the case in the next half hour. We're following that story. Stay with CNN for live coverage and the very latest right here from the NEWSROOM.

Dirty ads getting a lot of air play this campaign season. And you may be partly to blame. CNN's Anderson Cooper reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: George Allen, distracted by scandals.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): They're everywhere, cluttering TV screens from coast to coast. People may hate them, but it's only getting worse.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bob Corker lives in a 30-room mansion.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Claire McCaskill, a career of deception.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Brown even voted against the death penalty for terrorists who kill passengers on trains and subways.

COOPER: In 1998, $650 million was spent on campaign ads. In 2002, that number jumped to $996 million. This year's tally: $1.8 billion and climbing.

And look at how the congressional campaign committees are spending their money: 91 percent of Republican commercials are negative. So are 81 percent of Democratic commercials.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Lies, distortions and half-truths.

COOPER: The dirty little secret is that attack ads work and we help.

KATHLEEN HALL JAMIESON, ANNENBERG SCHOOL FOR COMMUNICATION: The most powerful attacks are those in which the audience helps create the message.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Six, eight, nine...

COOPER: Take the most famous political ad of all time, run in 1964 by President Lyndon Johnson against his challenger, Barry Goldwater.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Four, three, two, one.

COOPER: That ad tapped into public concern that Goldwater would be trigger-happy with nuclear weapons.

JAMIESON: One of the most powerful effects of ads isn't persuasion; it's reinforcement. An effective ad takes something you already believe and deepens that belief.

COOPER: George W. Bush ran this ad against John Kerry two years ago.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kerry voted for the Iraq war, opposed it, supported it, and now opposes it again.

COOPER: It reinforced a growing perception then, that the Massachusetts senator was a flip-flopper.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: John Kerry, whichever way the wind blows.

COOPER: Some ads play into a powerful emotion, fear.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These people want to kill us.

COOPER: Other ads hit the fear factor more subtlety, using pictures and music.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dole attacks Clinton. Hold it. President Clinton cuts taxes for millions of working families.

COOPER: The fact is people remember attack ads more than upbeat ones, because they hit you in the gut, and the media covers them like news events.

Remember Lyndon Johnson's daisy ad? Well, guess what? It only ran once, but reporters saw it and wrote about it a lot.

JAMIESON: Ads that wouldn't have had any real impact on their own get their impact out of news.

COOPER: It is a vicious cycle of nastiness...

SEN. MIKE DEWINE (D), OHIO: I'm Mike DeWine.

HAROLD FORD JR. (D), TENNESSEE SENATORIAL CANDIDATE: I'm Harold Ford Jr.

PETE RICKETTS (R), NEBRASKA SENATORIAL CANDIDATE: I'm Pete Ricketts, and I approve this message.

COOPER: And there is no end in sight.

Anderson Cooper, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: CNN's Anderson Cooper, of course, from the campaign trail in Washington tonight, he'll be speaking to Michael J. Fox about his controversial ad, his critics and his campaign for stem cell research. That's "AC 360", 10 p.m. Eastern.

LEMON: New details now in a developing story we just told you about. Let's head to Carol Lin at the breaking news desk -- Carol.

LIN: Don, this literally just broke across the Associated Press wires, that a suspect has now been detained in the shooting of two employees in northwest Phoenix, Arizona, the Pitney Bowes' parking lot there.

So as soon as we get more information on this we'll let you know. They were looking for a former employee, a security guard who had recently been -- recently been fired. So we don't know any more details about the suspect detained. But that was the profile that they were looking for.

LEMON: All right, Carol, work on that. We'll get back to you. Thank you very much. Operation Falcon, thousands of sex offenders taken off the street. Where and how they were nabbed.

You're watching CNN, the most trusted name in news.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: You can run, but you certainly cannot hide. Nearly 11,000 fugitives just learned that the hard way. The Justice Department has wrapped up another installment of a multi-state stop- loss (ph) sweep. It's called Operation Falcon.

Our Deb Feyerick has the details from New York -- Deb.

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Don, just to give you a picture of what it's like, there were hundreds of fugitive teams working 24 states east of the Mississippi, and they were hunting down violent criminals, drug dealers, sex offenders and gang members in a seven-day sweep that netted nearly 11,000 fugitives.

Now of those arrested, close to 1,700 were sex offenders. And this morning, Attorney General Alberto Gonzales spoke about this kind of operation's impact.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALBERTO GONZALES, ATTORNEY GENERAL: If only the guy had been caught and stopped after his first crime, then a second victim could have been spared. That's the purpose of programs like Operation Falcon, making sure that there aren't second or third victims, especially children, their innocence or even their lives taken by a dangerous fugitive.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FEYERICK: Now the teams start out early in the morning, 4 a.m. in our case. They have a list of suspects and addresses that have been carefully put together, in some cases by local police or prosecutors, and they go door to door. Sometimes they get the fugitives; sometimes they get a lead.

Their priority this time was gang members and sexual offenders. The alarming rise of gangs has now become a major concern across the country. And then separately, because of the new law passed this summer, the penalties for sex offenders are much higher, and the U.S. Marshal Fugitive Task Force has been charged with hunting them down -- Don.

LEMON: And Deb, all the details you gave us there, it appears to be effective. Why is this type of operation so effective?

FEYERICK: Local law enforcement can't fight this on their own. This is a joint effort. It involves the marshals, customs, drug enforcement, ATF and also the local police, the men and women who know the territory. By sweeping in, working together, catching fugitives off-guard in a concerted effort, the payoff is really much bigger. The Justice Department says usually 1,000 fugitives are arrested every week; but in a sweep like this, it's 11,000, 11 times the weekly average, Don.

LEMON: Deb Feyerick in New York, thank you very much.

PHILLIPS: Monitoring the president right now in Billings, Montana. He's actually there campaigning for Senator Conrad Burns, the incumbent in trouble against Democrat John Tester. We're going to monitor what the president says and dip in, of course, if he starts talking about Iraq, John Kerry, other big issues in the news.

The unofficial start of the holiday shopping season just three weeks away. Cheryl Casone joins us live from the New York Stock Exchange to tell us how the big retailers are doing leading up to it. She's got her red on, ready for the holidays.

CHERYL CASONE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You've got your holiday shopping started, Kyra?

PHILLIPS: Absolutely not.

CASONE: I love procrastination, and I'm a big one, absolutely.

PHILLIPS: You and I will be shopping together about a week before the holidays.

CASONE: All right, I'll see you then.

PHILLIPS: OK.

(STOCK REPORT)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Donald Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney, they have their share of critics, but now a big vote of confidence, and it's coming from the man who really matter, their boss.

CNN's Brian Todd has the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Reporter: Two men who have been lightning rods for his administration, one with notoriously low poll ratings, the other facing repeated calls to resign, even from party loyalists.

Yet the man who put them in power doesn't waiver. President Bush in an interview with news agencies, replied yes, when asked if he wants Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld to stay with him until his term ends in 2009.

Quote, "Both those men are doing fantastic jobs and I strongly support them."

Rumsfeld has been under extraordinary pressure from critics who say the Iraq war is spinning out of control.

But supporters say he shouldn't take all the blame.

REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R), MAJORITY LEADER: Well, a lot of people want to blame what's happening in Iraq on Donald Rumsfeld. But when you look at the transformation that our military has been through, it's nothing short of remarkable. And I think there is only one person in America who could have brought about that transformation, and that's Donald Rumsfeld.

TODD: On Cheney, the president revealed his near-obsession with loyalty, saying the good thing about Vice President Cheney's advice is you don't read about it in the newspaper after he gives it.

Almost as surprising, the president's comments about U.S. troop levels in Iraq. Asked if he foresees an increase, he said, quote, "They've got what they can live with."

Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Five days until the election, the campaign is getting tough, the political rhetoric is getting hotter. With me to sort through all this are two people with sharp eyes for politics. Carl Jeffers in Los Angeles. He's a radio host and a contributor to "The Seattle Times." And Terry Jeffrey, he is in Washington. He edits "Human Events."

Let's talk about these two guys. We've got Rumsfeld and Cheney, both have been criticized lately.

Mr. Jeffers, first your opinion -- should Rumsfeld stay or should he go?

JEFFERS: Well, first of all, Don -- and it's great to be back with Terry, my old sparring partner -- it is absolutely nonsensical to even include Dick Cheney in the same discussion with Rumsfeld. Dick Cheney is the vice president of the United States. Of course he's going to remain in office for the remainder of the term, and it's not even in dispute.

Now with respect to Don Rumsfeld, a lot of people don't realize Don Rumsfeld is not the problem that the American people are having with the Iraq war. And, in fact, don Rumsfeld himself said, when asked, did he approve of going into Iraq, and do you remember what his answer was -- I was never asked. This was not don Rumsfeld's war. And I will tell you this, this is all a political setup.

LEMON: What we're trying to figure, though, is how the vice president should play into the re-election, not should he stay or should he go.

JEFFERS: Well, the vice president will play into the re-election By appealing to the conservative base, because they love Dick Cheney, because he's conservative on social issues and on moral issues. Don Rumsfeld has no record of conservatism on social or moral issues. I remember him as an Illinois Congressman who stood, in fact, of favor for progress for civil rights...

GORANI: Mr. Jeffrey, let me let you jump in here. What do you think of this?

TERRY JEFFREY, EDITOR, "HUMAN EVENTS": I think that there's a point here a lot of people are missing. The key to the solution in Iraq is not going to be what the military does, but Donald Rumsfeld is in charge of the military, has already done a spectacular job at its core task of evading Iraq and overthrowing the regime of Saddam Hussein.

The president himself in his press conference last week said a military solution alone will not stop the violence in Iraq. The ball is really in Condoleezza Rice's court and the State Department's court to get a political solution between the Sunnis, who are backing the insurgency that is fighting us now, and the government, that is dominated by the Shias. Donald Rumsfeld and his military can't do that. If it's going to be done through the agency of the United States government, it's going to be Condoleezza Rice and her state department, so I think it's really misplaced to direct criticism about what's going on in Iraq now at the military.

LEMON: We said there's only five days, we know that, until the midterm elections. And just yesterday, we were talking about, everyone's wondering how the president -- let's take a look, the president actually in Billings, Montana today -- let's take a live look at him, he is campaigning there for Democrat -- or rather -- Conrad Burns, Senator Conrad Burns, who is running against Democrat John Tester (ph). So he's there. So folks are wondering, is he going to be good for the re-election or is he bad for the re-election? A lot of people are backing away from the president because his poll numbers are slipping.

JEFFERS: Well, there's no question that the president has to pick and choose where he goes in the remaining five days. In Montana, where the president generally still has a somewhat favorable rating, even though it's still less than 50 percent, the reality is that he can help Conrad burns.

However, if you check the polls, Don, you'll see that John Tester's substantially ahead of Conrad Burns, and will very likely pull out the Montana race. But it does make sense for the president to go there.

I just want to add one final thought on Don Rumsfeld. The Republicans have put don Rumsfeld out there as a bone to Republican candidates who are in trouble. Because what they're saying to them is if you need to separate yourself from the president, we don't want you attack the president, but it's OK to go after Don Rumsfeld as a sacrificial lamb, and even if we win it will be OK, we'll understand that, but we do expect you to toe the line once the election's over.

GORANI: All right, Mr. Jeffers, this is a good time to bring this in -- yesterday, John Boehner, U.S. representative, was on "THE SITUATION ROOM" with Wolf Blitzer, and he talked about Donald Rumsfeld, and let's hear what he has to say, and I want to get your comments on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: your fellow Republicans have said in recent days, I don't like the day, I simply don't think he has measured up on running the war in Iraq. Would I vote for a no- confidence resolution on Secretary Rumsfeld? Yes, Chris Shay, Republican of Connecticut. If I had my way, he wouldn't be secretary of defense now. I would have accepted his resignation after Abu Ghraib. I have lost confidence in him. That's the Republican candidate for the Senate from Washington State, Mike McGavick.

And Congresswoman Jo Ann Davis, Republican of Virginia, it's probably the only thing in my life I've ever agreed with Hillary Clinton about. He's probably a nice guy, but I don't think he's a great secretary of defense.

BOEHNER: Wolf, I understand that, but let's not blame what's happening in Iraq on the Rumsfeld.

BLITZER: But he's in charge of the military.

BOEHNER: But the fact is, the generals on the ground are in charge, and he works closely with them and the president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: It's Boehner, but when you look at his name, it looks like Bonner -- I always say that when I'm looking at his name.

Let me ask you Mr. Jeffrey, is this -- does it sound like he's blaming the generals instead of Donald Rumsfeld?

JEFFREY: Well, on the face of it, it sounds like that. I'm not sure what John Boehner meant, but if he did, it's just flat wrong. Don Rumsfeld is squarely in the chain of command between the president of the United States and the commanders in the field.

You know, addressing what those Republican politicians are saying, I would go back to my original point. Look, politically, the one reason the Republicans may lose Congress on Tuesday is because of public dissatisfaction with the Iraq war. There's tremendous debate about what the military is doing in Iraq, because the military's taking the casualties in Iraq. But even though it's out military that is taking the casualties, our military cannot solve the problem in Iraq.

The problem in Iraq is a political one. The political portfolio is with the State Department. We have a plan right now that the administration is putting forward that's trying to bring reconciliation between the Shias and the Sunnis. But that isn't Donald Rumsfeld's job. It's Condoleezza Rice's job. It's Ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad's job. And I think there ought to be a lot more debate and focus in our media and among our politicians that the political dynamics of Iraq and the surrounding countries in the Middle East, and less on the military, because if we're going to win it, it's going to be political, not military. And I wish our politicians would focus more there.

LEMON: All right, guys, we're out of time, so I really need a yes/no answer to this -- will Kerry apologizing help the Democrats at all? Yes, no, please.

JEFFERS: Well, certainly it helps to try to move this off of the political landscape. So the answer is yes.

LEMON: All right.

Terry Jeffrey?

JEFFREY: It helps because it gets the story off the front page.

LEMON: Terry Jeffrey, Carl Jeffers, thank you both for joining us today in the CNN NEWSROOM.

JEFFREY: Good to be here.

PHILLIPS: Developing story that we're working on here now, authorities investigating the fire that killed five firefighters in Southern California. They're going to make a, quote, "significant announcement," we're being told, on this case in the next half hour. We're following that story, so stay with CNN for live coverage and the very latest from the NEWSROOM.

For more on the woman accused of setting a deadly hotel fire in Reno, Nevada now. Records show that Valerie Moore had served time for second-degree murder 19 years ago. She was released on parole last year. Police say that Moore, a casino cook, set a mattress on fire at the Mizpah Hotel yesterday. Six people were killed. Another 30 were injured, many of them from leaping out of windows. A historic hotel was gutted.

PHILLIPS: Americans uninsured, the number's growing day by day. And it might be surprise you to learn who can't afford insurance. Dr. Sanjay Gupta is with us straight ahead from the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: A staggering number of Americans, we're talking about tens of millions actually, they have no health insurance. And, it's no longer just the poorest of the poor. CNN medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins us with more. Tell us what's going on.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: You may not realize this, but our premiums on average have gone up about 900 a year over the last few years. It's a lot of money. We talk about a lot about the number of people who are uninsured. But I think what's most surprising is we did some digging into this, is exactly who those uninsured people are.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GUPTA: Layla Barr had been told she wouldn't be able to have children. So, it was a little surprising when she found out she was pregnant.

LAYLA BARR, UNINSURED: When we found out we were pregnant, we had not been trying to get pregnant. So, we were a little scared. But very excited.

GUPTA: Layla and her husband Emmitt had work as chefs for more than ten years. They had paid for health insurance on their own. Until six years ago when Emmitt had hernia surgery and their insurance company denied the claim, leaving the Barr's with a $24,000 debt. They were healthy, so they decided that paying their debt was more important than continuing their health insurance. Four years later, she was pregnant.

BARR: That was a total blessing for us. But we're then sort of thrust into, okay, what do we do now?

GUPTA: The Barrs tried to get insurance again but were told they needed to have coverage a year before the pregnancy to qualify. They tried public assistance, but had too many assets to qualify.

BARR: What if there was a complication with the pregnancy, what if there was complication with labor and delivery? Financially it could be totally devastating for us.

GUPTA: In fact, health care costs are the number one Americans file for bankruptcy. With nowhere else to turn, the Barrs negotiated directly with the hospital for delivery and doctor's fees and took a second mortgage on their home to pay the $20,000 cost.

BARR: To have a baby, you shouldn't have to take out a second mortgage on your house.

EMMITT BARR, UNINSURED: We're one of the wealthiest nations in the world if not the most. It just doesn't make sense to me how we can't cover our citizens.

GUPTA: 46 million Americans have no health insurance. And the Barrs belong to one the fastest growing demographic, the uninsured middle class. An independent study found 41 percent of middle-income Americans had no health insurance for part of 2005, that's up from 28 percent in just four years. Why are so many Americans uninsured?

RON POLLACK, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, FAMILIES USA: Health care costs are skyrocketing at the same time that wages are very stagnant. And so employers are having a tough time continuing to pay for health care coverage.

GUPTA: The Barrs don't see any immediate way out of their health care crisis. But are looking into state child health care programs. In the meantime, they just hope that they and Isabella stay healthy. E. BARR: Every day that I wake up, I'm an accident or an illness away from not being able to provide for my family and that's the cold hard facts.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: And those of us are insured, we still need to worry about the people that uninsured, it affects us all.

GUPTA: Obviously, for the Barr family, a lot of people can find themselves in that situation. First of all, a $24,000 loan, second mortgage on the home, to have a baby. And these are people who work. But also the uninsured people who are going to hospitals and utilizing those resources, eventually the hospital costs are going up for everybody. A lot of those costs, just simple financial formulas, alot of those costs get transferred on to other people.

COLLINS: You and I were talking about all the choices we have here at CNN. I wanted your advice on how I should switch my insurance around because I want to. Will it always be that way if you work full time for a good company? They'll always provide health insurance.

GUPTA: We talked to alot of people about this and it's interesting because we very much take that as a right, as part of our packages when we sign on with a company. There are people who tell me that getting health insurance might be as common as someone getting a leased car for example, not very common. So you know, in fact, alot of people are going to be asked that yes, you will be working here, but you have to go ahead and provide your own health-care insurance. Or, you just get a subsidized health-care insurance. There are lots of different acts in place. This is becoming a huge election issue. I think it'll be bigger in 2008 than 2006. But, everybody, both insured and uninsured are paying more attention to it.

COLLINS: That's what I was thinking, come 2008, once again, it's going to be one of those controversial issues we'll pay attention to. Thanks, Sanjay. You're going to stick around right? We're going to be talking about red wine after the break.

GUPTA: I get to be the good guy for a change, right?

COLLINS: Well, first of all, I want to tease -- we're going to actually talk about the new benefits of red wine, but also I want to let you know Sanjay's going to have a special, the cost of insurance is just one of many health care issues which voters are interested in. You can tune in to his special election edition of "HOUSE CALL WITH DR. SANJAY GUPTA," how your vote impacts your health. That's going to be Saturday at 8:00 a.m. Eastern right here on CNN. Now the possible health benefits of red wine on obesity. That's what we're chat with Sanjay about after a quick break. We skipped to the red wine a little quicker than expected. I wonder why?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: All right, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, back to tell us about a new study involving possible health benefits of red wine. DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SR. MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Everybody's been so interested in this, no surprise.

PHILLIPS: Everyone's been talking about this in the NEWSROOM.

GUPTA: There's a substance called resveratrol -- I can't say it.

PHILLIPS: Resveratrol. I was trying try to say it.

GUPTA: I'm practicing it, but it's a substance that's found in red wine. So some scientists decided to put it to test, specifically looking at if they take extracts of this particular substance and give it to mice, obese mice, mice who 60 percent of their diet is fat, what sort of impact might it have on these mice.

And what they found was very interesting, worthwhile enough to publish in "Nature," which is a very good journal. They found that, in fact, it lowered the incidence of diabetes, lowered the incidence of liver failure, and actually increased lifespan.

The mice did not get any skinnier. They stayed just as obese, but they did not have some of the significant health effects often associated with obesity. This is in mice, you know, so it's a very early study, but lots of excitement around it.

PHILLIPS: All right, well first -- all right, well, I'll get to that in a minute, but tell me more about resveratrol. What exactly is it and what is it that they're looking at?

GUPTA: It's so interesting. It's a substance that people have been looking at for some time, but in a nutshell, grapes are grown usually under situations of stress. That's part of the growth process. Well, as a result, they seem to form this particular substance, resveratrol, which protects the grapes against some of that stress.

The idea was if you take that same stress-busting substance and give it to mice, might it also protect them against some of the stress of life? And so far, at least in mice, it seems to have worked. No one is saying for sure whether that will translate, but they're saying that at least in mice, it seems to have had some sort of effect.

PHILLIPS: So how much did they give to the mice and how much would we have to drink -- not that we'd have an issue with drinking a lot of red wine.

GUPTA: Well, it would be about 100 glasses a day.

PHILLIPS: OK that's ...

GUPTA: So it might be a little impractical for some people.

PHILLIPS: That might be an issue.

GUPTA: But, well, you know, obviously, the next point would be not so much drinking that much wine but to actually isolate that substance, create a supplement that you might be able to take as a pill every day.

PHILLIPS: Like in a vitamin or something.

GUPTA: A vitamin-type thing. And the person who is actually the lead researcher on this, who also has a financial interest in the company that makes the supplements, he takes these himself, gives them to his family, already believes that this stuff works.

PHILLIPS: Wow, interesting. All right. We'll definitely stay on top of that one. If they need any case studies to participate we can ...

GUPTA: Next time, I'll bring samples.

LEMON: I was just going to say, where are the samples, sir?

GUPTA: Right.

LEMON: Not that we would drink wine on television.

PHILLIPS: Thanks, Sanjay.

LEMON: We might need a little red wine with all the cold weather happening.

PHILLIPS: Only in church, we only drink red wine in church.

LEMON: Yes, drink responsibly.

(WEATHER REPORT)

LEMON: Well, in just a few moments, authorities investigating the fire that killed five firefighters in Southern California will make a, quote, "significant announcement" about that case. We'll bring that to you live right here in the NEWSROOM.

PHILLIPS: Also coming up next hour, are you a dog person or a cat lover? That's just one of the questions political parties are asking as they try to determine whether you're worth targeting for a vote. More on your political DNA straight ahead from the NEWSROOM.

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