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Prominent Pastor Embroiled in Controversy; Saddam's Nuclear Secrets Posted Online By U.S. Government?; Interview With Art Buchwald and Ben Bradlee; Mike Jones Interview; Bill Bradley Talks About Life After Politics

Aired November 03, 2006 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Fredricka Whitfield, live at the CNN World Headquarters in Atlanta.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Don Lemon.

Kyra Phillips is on assignment. She will join us in just a few minutes.

We have a bombshell to tell you about of biblical proportions, or a dirty political trick, is it? A prominent evangelical leader steps aside after a gay male prostitute goes public with claims of a sexual liaison.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

Now to the powerful Protestant pastor accused by a man of paying for sex -- last night, the church official temporarily assuming the Reverend Ted Haggard's pulpit said Haggard made some admissions of guilt to allegations raised by a man who says he is a former prostitute, but wouldn't say anymore.

Haggard has publicly denied the allegations, but he resigned as president of the National Association of Evangelicals, based in Colorado Springs, Colorado. He also has temporarily stepped down as a pastor at his church.

Denver man Mike Jones says Haggard paid him for sex for about three years, ending last August, and also used methamphetamine. For a third straight day, Jones spoke this morning to a Denver radio station, to the listeners there.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE JONES, ACCUSER: I have said everything that has happened is the truth. Again, if I wanted to make up some even additional story, I could embellish many more things. I could talk about kinky sex or something. You know, I could have made it even worse than it was. But I'm just telling you what happened when I was with him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: And Jones says he went public because of Haggard's vocal opposition to gay marriage. A polygraph expert who gave Jones a polygraph test during his radio experience today said several of Jones' responses indicated deception, but also said he wants to rerun the test, because Jones is under stress, and that could have affected the results.

Reverend Haggard gave an interview Wednesday to CNN affiliate KUSA in Denver.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REVEREND TED HAGGARD, NEW LIFE CHURCH: I have never said that I'm perfect. But I haven't had sex with a man in Denver. And I have been faithful to my wife.

I have never had a gay relationship with anybody. And I -- you know, I'm steady with my wife. I'm faithful to my wife. And, so, I don't know if this is election-year politics, or if this has to do with the marriage amendment, or what it is.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Now, KUSA had a voice analyst listen to the phone voice mail messages provided by Haggard's accuser, Jones. The analyst says the voice is probably Haggard. He is part of one of the -- here is part of one of the messages provided to CNN.

Now, here is some context for you, just so it's clear. And neither have -- we're not sure of the context, or neither the content itself. Now, what you will see is Jones listening as the clip is being played.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I also wanted to get your address, so I could send you some money for inventory. But that's not -- obviously not working.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: KUSA says more detailed analysis of the message is under way to try to determine definitely whether the voice is that of Haggard.

Now, here is the latest on the evangelical leader who is accused of paying for sex and drugs. A short time ago, the Reverend Ted Haggard admitted buying methamphetamine from his accuser, Mike Jones.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HAGGARD: As we talked the other night, we're so grateful that he failed the polygraph test this morning -- that my accuser did. And we have gathered together this outside board of overseers, and they're going through the process of investigation and finding out what needs to be done to me.

You know, I will put myself on an extended -- what do we call it? QUESTION: Suspension.

HAGGARD: Suspension of my senior pastor's role. I resigned from the NAE, because both of those roles are based on trust. And, right now, my trust is questionable.

QUESTION: Right. Well, and...

HAGGARD: And, so...

QUESTION: And the man who's making the accusations, Mike Jones, did fail part of the polygraph. It showed deception about having a kind of a relationship. He did not fail or did not directly address the aspect of any use of illegal drugs.

HAGGARD: Yes. And all of that's...

QUESTION: That's still a question that's out there.

HAGGARD: All that's got to be processed through, and I'm sure they're going to do that.

QUESTION: And I know that Nicole asked you the other night, but I have to ask you again: Have you used meth?

HAGGARD: No, I have not.

QUESTION: OK. And the voice expert that is in Denver that was hired by KUSA...

HAGGARD: Yes.

QUESTION: ... has matched now 18 of the words left on the voice mail message to your voice.

HAGGARD: Yes. I did call him. I did call him.

QUESTION: And what did you call him about?

HAGGARD: I called him to buy some meth, but I threw it away.

QUESTION: And who were you buying the meth for?

HAGGARD: No one. I was buying it for me, but I never used it.

QUESTION: Have you ever used meth before?

HAGGARD: No, I have not.

QUESTION: So, why...

HAGGARD: And I did not ever use it with him.

QUESTION: And did you ever have sex with him?

HAGGARD: No, I did not. QUESTION: And at what point did you decide to throw away the meth?

HAGGARD: Right after. I never kept it very long, because it's -- it was wrong. I was tempted. I bought it. But I never used it.

QUESTION: And how did you know that he would sell it to you?

HAGGARD: He told me about it. I went there...

(CROSSTALK)

HAGGARD: I went there for a massage.

So, OK, we're late for our appointment. And, so -- but thank you for your work.

QUESTION: How did you find him to get a massage from him?

HAGGARD: A referral.

QUESTION: From?

HAGGARD: From the hotel I was staying at.

QUESTION: A hotel where?

HAGGARD: I have stayed at a lot of hotels in Denver, because I write in Denver. So, OK?

QUESTION: OK.

HAGGARD: All right. Thank you.

QUESTION: Thank you, Pastor.

HAGGARD: All right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Again, that was the Reverend Ted Haggard, who has resigned his position as president of the National Association of Evangelicals.

He now is admitting to purchasing methamphetamine from the man who also accuses Haggard for paying him to sex. Haggard says he bought the drugs for himself, but did not use them. He says he was tempted, but threw the drugs away.

Could it be that Saddam Hussein's secret nuclear recipes were posted on the Web by Uncle Sam?

CNN's Jamie McIntyre is at the Pentagon with the potentially explosive details -- Jamie.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SENIOR PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Fredricka, it's no secret that captured documents from the reign of Saddam Hussein leave no doubt that the former Iraqi leader was seeking to build nuclear weapons back before the first Gulf War in 1991.

But some of those documents post on this U.S. military Web site for scholars to study may have constituted a basic guide to building an atom bomb, according to experts consulted by "The New York Times."

"The Times" said about a dozen posted documents contain charts, diagrams, equations, and lengthy narratives that go beyond what is available elsewhere on the Internet, including detailed information about nuclear firing circuits and triggering explosives.

Questions raised by the newspaper prompted the office of the director of national intelligence, John Negroponte, to immediately shut down the site last night and issue this statement -- quote -- "The material currently on the Web site, as well as the procedures used to post new documents, will be carefully reviewed before the site becomes available again."

The documents were released over the initial objections of Negroponte, at the urging of House Intelligence Committee Chairman Peter Hoekstra, who, in a statement today, said -- quote -- "I have always been clear that the director of national intelligence should take whatever steps necessary to withhold sensitive documents."

And, in fact, the DNI says the documents were supposed to be subject to -- quote -- "a strict criteria to ensure that sensitive nuclear weapons information was not released."

And it should be noted that, while this review is under way, so far, no determination has been made that that, in fact, happened -- Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right, Jamie.

And still on the subject of Iraq, this time involving a military dog trainer who was involved in the Abu Ghraib prison abuse scandal possibly heading back to Iraq, there were some decisions made. Bring us up to date.

MCINTYRE: Well, that's right.

The involved Sergeant Santos Cardona, who was convicted of using his military working dog to intimidate prisoners at Abu Ghraib. He served 90 days of hard labor. He didn't not get any jail time. He's paying back a fine, but he is still in the U.S. Army.

And his unit was sent back to Iraq. When it was brought to the attention of the U.S. Army that this particular soldier was also heading back into Iraq, he was stopped in Kuwait. The Army has now decided it would not be prudent to send him into Iraq, because he could be a target of insurgents, because of the notoriety involving his involvement in this case.

And that could also make him someone who would draw danger to other members of his unit. So, the Army, just last night, decided to withhold his deployment orders to go into Iraq. He is staying in Kuwait, while they decide what to do with him. But they have decided it would not -- not be a good idea to send this particular soldier back into Iraq.

WHITFIELD: All right, Jamie McIntyre from the Pentagon, thanks so much.

On to politics now -- the Missouri Senate race is one of the half-dozen or so coming down to the wire this election season. And President Bush is trying to be the difference-maker. For Republican Senator Jim Talent, Mr. Bush made two stops in Missouri today. He used his first appearance to deflect Democrats' criticism of his policies.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There's still time for the Democrats to tell the American people their plan to prevail in this war on terror. So, if you happen to bump into a Democrat candidate, you might want to ask this simple question: What's your plan?

If they say they want to protect the homeland, but oppose the Patriot Act, ask them this question: What's your plan?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: For Missouri's Senate candidates, it may all come down to middle ground and the middle-class voters.

CNN senior political correspondent Candy Crowley reports from Saint Louis.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In Saint Louis, at the Goody Goody Diner, Democrat Claire McCaskill is running for the U.S. Senate, courting her base.

CLAIRE MCCASKILL (D), MISSION SENATORIAL CANDIDATE: Nice to see you. Thank you.

CROWLEY: These are urban voters, reliably Democratic, but there are not enough of them to win an election.

MCCASKILL: And we have invested a lot of time in rural Missouri. You know, Democrats in the state for too long have thought that, well, don't go to the country, because you get on defense, and there's no point, and we can do enough in the cities to make up for the margins in the country.

CROWLEY: Small towns and rural areas have not been friendly turf for most Democrats. Rural voters gave George Bush a 19-point edge over John Kerry. Springfield, Missouri, out-state, as they call it, is strong Republican country.

David Lutz voted twice for George Bush.

DAVID LUTZ, MISSOURI VOTER: But as the Democrats went so far to the left, then we started -- or I started to vote much more Republican, and so on. And now it's just -- to me, the pendulum has kind of swung past me, gone the other way. So, it's -- I'm trying to just get in the middle.

CROWLEY: Lutz plans to vote for McCaskill, the Democrat. And so will his Republican wife.

ELLEN MCLEAN, MISSOURI VOTER: They're not representing me, and they keep moving further right. And there's simply nowhere to go. I don't know where a moderate is supposed to go.

CROWLEY: This is an uh-oh for Republican Senator Jim Talent, who needs to keep his base intact and get them to the polls.

SEN. JIM TALENT (R), MISSOURI: I believe in the dignity and value of life at all stages. I strongly supported the ban on partial- birth abortions. My opponent opposed it.

(APPLAUSE)

CROWLEY: A stem cell research initiative on the ballot complicates Talent's task. It might bring out his conservative Christian voters, but it might prompt his business community voters, more moderate and pro-stem cell, to pull the lever for McCaskill.

Talent splits the difference, saying he opposes the initiative, but others should make up their own minds. But, basically, he avoids the topic, turning to more tried-and-true subjects.

TALENT: Marriage, I think, is a relationship between a man and a woman.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

CROWLEY: In five stops through southeastern Missouri, Talent mentioned same-sex marriage and abortion in most of them, reaching out to the base with what he calls commonsense Missouri values.

(on camera): The Talent campaign says it has a turnout operation on steroids. McCaskill says she has bells and whistles, too, but is depending on something more basic. She believes voters here are ready for change.

Candy Crowley, CNN, Saint Louis.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: And stay with CNN for the best election coverage. We will have a complete election preview on Monday, beginning at noon Eastern. It's a special edition of the CNN NEWSROOM with Tony Harris, Heidi Collins, Don Lemon, and me.

The pastor and the accuser -- new information coming to light this hour about sex allegations against the former leader of the nation's evangelicals. That's straight ahead in the NEWSROOM.

And we're talking Afghanistan this hour, the present, the future, the Taliban. It's where the war on terror is fought every day -- CNN's Nic Robertson on all things Afghanistan right here in the NEWSROOM coming up.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Kyra Phillips live at the home of Art Buchwald. Yes, he is out with another book. He has survived hospice, and he's making us laugh all the way through -- more special guests, as we honor him, his life special, his writing, right after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Well, he's made us laugh at ourselves and our politics for years. And, today, humorous Art Buchwald has invited us -- or, rather, Kyra Phillips -- into his Washington, D.C. home.

(LAUGHTER)

WHITFIELD: That's where she is now -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: I have been so lucky to have him as a mentor, although he doesn't like to admit to it.

WHITFIELD: It sounds like it.

PHILLIPS: Since I was 20 years old...

(LAUGHTER)

PHILLIPS: That's right. He has been absolutely amazing. And he has always told me he is expecting -- or expected nothing less than success.

But I had a lot of live up...

ART BUCHWALD, HUMORIST: I...

PHILLIPS: Oh. He's already -- yes?

BUCHWALD: I told her to get out of the business and go into something decent.

PHILLIPS: You did.

What did you want me to do?

BUCHWALD: Be a senator or a congressman.

PHILLIPS: Then, you could write about me and all my scandals?

BUCHWALD: Yes.

(LAUGHTER) PHILLIPS: Well, Art, we have been talking about your new book, "Art Buchwald: Too Soon to Say Goodbye (I Don't Know Where I'm Going, and I Don't Even Know Where I Am)."

You went into hospice thinking you were going to die.

BUCHWALD: Yes.

PHILLIPS: You checked out of hospice. You are still writing your column.

BUCHWALD: Yes.

PHILLIPS: And you're still staying up on all the Washington gossip.

BUCHWALD: Yes.

I really -- it's a great life, if you're not going to die, but you think you're going to die, because you have all sorts of fantasies. What is -- I wanted to make a donation to a sperm bank...

(LAUGHTER)

BUCHWALD: ... so that there would be a lot of -- thousands of Arties all over the world.

PHILLIPS: Well, I know one person that was a -- a little worried about that. And that is one of your best friends, former executive editor of "The Washington Post," Ben Bradlee, now V.P. at large.

Ben, are you with us? Are you with us, Ben?

BEN BRADLEE, FORMER "WASHINGTON POST" EXECUTIVE EDITOR: Yes, I'm here with -- in the studio in New York. I'm appalled by what Buchwald is saying, but I'm with you.

(LAUGHTER)

PHILLIPS: Did you hear that? Ben is appalled by what you are saying, absolutely appalled that you would want all of these little Arties running around.

BUCHWALD: Yes.

PHILLIPS: Do you think that's because he knows too much about you?

BUCHWALD: Yes. You would have to give them jobs, all of them.

(LAUGHTER)

BUCHWALD: But what are you doing in New York? You came up for the play that they wrote about your house?

BRADLEE: Yes, that's what I'm doing. It was a great play. BUCHWALD: Yes.

BRADLEE: I'm -- I wish you were here, Artie.

BUCHWALD: I do. I wish I was anywhere.

(LAUGHTER)

PHILLIPS: Now, Ben...

BRADLEE: Yes.

PHILLIPS: ... I know you are up in New York for a special event about this play. But, if I remember correctly, in your book, you wrote about a play that Art wrote, something -- "Sheep on the Runway"; is that right?

BUCHWALD: Yes.

BRADLEE: Yes. Yes, he wrote that. I...

PHILLIPS: So, how...

BRADLEE: No, go ahead.

I heard -- and I went up to New York to see it, and I couldn't believe that it was going to run very long, and it didn't run very long. But it ran longer than I thought.

(LAUGHTER)

PHILLIPS: Well, thank goodness you had a column. That run -- that ran longer than your Broadway play.

BUCHWALD: That was a thing about the Vietnam War. It was a satire. The main character was a fictitious character called Joe Mayflower, who was Joe Alsop. And the -- Alsop told anyone who went to see the play that they could never eat at his house again.

(LAUGHTER)

PHILLIPS: Well, maybe we could bring that back, Ben. What do you think? We can rally up to get it back on Broadway?

BRADLEE: Well, I don't...

BUCHWALD: I would love that.

BRADLEE: Well, you like it, Artie? I didn't -- I thought it was pretty good.

BUCHWALD: Yes.

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK) BUCHWALD: Well, it was a baby. I did birth to a baby.

(LAUGHTER)

BUCHWALD: And I was nervous. And I went through everything. At the same time, I was writing my column.

PHILLIPS: Well, let's talk some more about that.

Ben, tell us a story about Art Buchwald. I have heard everything from, you know, he would get his columns done in a matter of minutes, and the two of you would argue about content, that he tried to use a special microphone in his wristwatch one time, and he kept his hand up in the air to get all the Q&A, and it ended up not recording a darn thing.

You have got a lot of stories about him, don't you?

BRADLEE: Well, I have been -- yes. I have been -- I have known him and loved him for, good God, 45 years, 50 years. And...

BUCHWALD: Yes.

BRADLEE: But I -- that is -- showing now is our friend Edward Bennett Williams, the lawyer in Washington. And we had a -- sort of a club of three people, whose only goal was to keep the fourth guy out, and which we were successful at.

Katharine Graham tried to get in...

PHILLIPS: Now...

BRADLEE: ... we didn't let her in.

BUCHWALD: Yes, we wouldn't let her...

PHILLIPS: I remember that, the publisher, Katharine Graham at the time, and she desperately wanted to be a part of that club.

And I remember, Ben, you even wrote in your book, you published the memo that Art had written, telling Katharine Graham that, if she were to come, that she had to understand who those guests were, Benjamin Bradlee, Edward Bennett Williams, and Art Buchwald.

And the way Art describes himself: "Well, he's a columnist for 'The Washington Post'; He is terribly charming and can talk on any subject. I think that, of the three, you will find him the most interesting. I doubt if there will be any toast, except the president of the United States."

Art is quite confident about himself, isn't he, Ben?

BRADLEE: Yes. I don't know why, but he is.

(LAUGHTER)

PHILLIPS: Was there ever a president that didn't like Art, or did every president love art?

BRADLEE: No, I don't know -- I don't know about that last. I don't think they loved him. A couple of them didn't like him at all.

BUCHWALD: No.

BRADLEE: I don't think Richard Nixon liked him. And...

(CROSSTALK)

BUCHWALD: Well, I wasn't writing for love.

PHILLIPS: What were you writing for?

BRADLEE: Money.

BUCHWALD: Well, I would say money, except Bradlee never paid me much.

(LAUGHTER)

PHILLIPS: Is that true, Bradlee? You stiffed Art Buchwald all those years he wrote for "The Post"?

(CROSSTALK)

BRADLEE: You know, this is so tiresome. He said that -- we paid him a fortune. We gave him a lot of stock in "The Washington Post," which he still has. And he -- he...

(LAUGHTER)

BRADLEE: ... now wants more for a column, you know, per column, and -- and we don't do it that way.

PHILLIPS: Well, Ben, when he started writing his column again from the hospice...

BRADLEE: Yes.

PHILLIPS: ... you were the one that said: All right, we're going to publish it. Let's go.

Take me back. How was that? Was that -- were you happy about that, that he decided to start writing again?

BRADLEE: Well, I'm -- I thought he was going to move on in his life, and that I thought he was going to die. So, I thought it was a very Christian act on my behalf, on my part, to give him a few more columns.

I didn't expect him to be doing it for the rest of his -- you know, I didn't know he was going to live this long.

BUCHWALD: No. That's why he didn't pay me much.

PHILLIPS: Now I'm seeing.

(LAUGHTER)

PHILLIPS: He really got a good deal, didn't he?

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIPS: What is one of your best memories with Ben?

What is that, Ben?

BRADLEE: No, I didn't -- I...

(CROSSTALK)

BUCHWALD: ... best memories?

PHILLIPS: Well, yes, Artie, what is one of your best memories of Ben Bradlee?

BUCHWALD: Well, I guess the sad one is when Kennedy got shot, and I went to his office, and the national press, really, and the two of us sat there, watching Cronkite, and we cried. We cried. That was the one I remember the most. That's the thing that happens with really good friends.

PHILLIPS: You know what? I had a feeling you were going to bring that up, Art.

Ben, he's talking of course, about November 24, 1963, when Art published the -- his column, "We Weep." And it was about the assassination of JFK.

And I just want to read part of that, just a couple lines: "We weep for our president who died for his country. We weep for his wife and for his children, brothers and sisters. We weep for the millions of people who are weeping for him. We weep for Americans that this could happen in our country. We weep for the Europeans and the Africans and the Asians and people in every corner of the globe who saw him in a hope for the future and a chance for mankind."

Ben, this relationship with the Kennedys and you and Art Buchwald, it was a precious relationship, wasn't it?

BRADLEE: Well, yes. I mean, it certainly was.

And it was an awful experience to lose the president of the United States. But to lose a friend is, luckily, in one sense, it happened on a Friday. And I worked for "Newsweek" at that time. And that was the -- that was publication day. It was my deadline. And we had to scrap the whole -- we had to scrap the whole issue and start all over again.

And that took up a lot of time and energy. And it made the first day possible to survive.

PHILLIPS: And do you think that was one of the times where you and Ben Bradlee really bonded in a unique way, Art?

BUCHWALD: Oh, sure, because he's a little older than I am.

(LAUGHTER)

BUCHWALD: And the other day, we had a sad notice that Bill Styron had died.

BRADLEE: Yes.

BUCHWALD: And he was a very close friend of mine. He was a good friend of Ben's. And we lost a great writer.

And Ben was -- visited every day in the hospice, because he was afraid I was going. And I didn't go. But he was there. And that is what a real friend is.

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIPS: That's true. We should take a moment -- go ahead, Ben.

BRADLEE: And the worst part is that he asked us, when he -- to prepare for his death, he asked us to write the speeches for his funeral. And, then, when he didn't die, and started -- wanted to publish this book, he said we have to give the speeches, so that he could put them in the book, because the book is otherwise a little bit thin.

And, so, the question now amongst us who were giving those speeches is whether we have to write another one now. I don't think so.

PHILLIPS: Well, I will give you your chance -- well, I will give you your chance to say it live on CNN.

Are you going to make Ben rewrite what he wants to say about you at your funeral?

BUCHWALD: Well, when I'm gone, I don't give a damn anymore.

(LAUGHTER)

BUCHWALD: I know what he was going to say.

PHILLIPS: Ben Bradlee, it is so wonderful to have you with us, and -- and to just share memories.

Any final thoughts to Artie?

BRADLEE: No. He's a dear man. And he -- and I'm going to miss him

And just stick around, Artie, as long as you can, buddy.

BUCHWALD: I will. I plan on it. But I got a -- I got a book out of it.

(LAUGHTER)

BUCHANAN: So, "The Washington Post" doesn't -- "The Washington Post" doesn't have to pay me what I'm worth.

(LAUGHTER)

BRADLEE: He can get a book out of a -- of being late to supper.

BUCHWALD: Yes.

(LAUGHTER)

PHILLIPS: And that book is "Art Buchwald: Too Soon to Say Goodbye (I Don't Know Where I'm Going, I Don't Even Know Why I Am Here)."

We truly did lose a legend yesterday, William Styron, one of your best friends. You and Mike Wallace and Bill were the Blues Brothers for years...

BUCHWALD: Yes.

PHILLIPS: ... traveling around, talking about depression. We definitely remember him.

But we also cherish the fact that you're still here, too, Art, and you have written a book. And Ben is still here to give you a hard time. So is Mike Wallace.

And what do you think? Did we do OK here, talking about the book and sharing...

BUCHWALD: Well...

PHILLIPS: ... stories?

BUCHWALD: It's an experience that I hope everybody has, to spend time with your friend, to have him say goodbye, and that you don't go.

(LAUGHTER)

BUCHWALD: And this is a wonderful thing for me, and I never thought it would happen.

The whole thing started because I wouldn't take dialysis. So, I went to the hospice to die. If I had taken dialysis, we wouldn't be in this house right now. And nobody would be talking. So, fate -- life and fate is what it's all about.

PHILLIPS: Art Buchwald, I'm so glad to know you.

Ben Bradlee, thanks for being with us.

BRADLEE: Thank you.

PHILLIPS: Artie, you're a true friend and quite an amazing man. Thanks for letting us be in your home today and share with special friends and talk about your book. It means a lot to me. And it means a lot to CNN.

BUCHWALD: Thank you very much.

We go back a long way, Kyra. And it's fun to have you do this, because you know me. And most of your correspondents wouldn't have a good idea of what it's all about.

PHILLIPS: Well, you have been an amazing friend and a mentor. And I love you for that. This was my way of giving back.

BUCHWALD: Two USC people.

PHILLIPS: Fight on.

BUCHWALD: But...

(LAUGHTER)

BUCHWALD: ... the last two weeks were very sad, because the Trojans lost two games in a row.

PHILLIPS: I love you, Artie.

BUCHWALD: Love you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Too soon to say good-bye. You never know with Art Buchwald -- Don.

LEMON: Kyra and Art Buchwald, thank you very much for that report.

The pastor and the accuser -- new information coming to light this hour about sex allegations against the former leader of the nation's evangelicals. Hear from the accuser himself. That interview is ahead in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: And we have more now on the powerful Protestant pastor accused by a man of paying for sex. The Reverend Ted Haggard has resigned as president of the National Association of Evangelicals, based in Colorado Springs, Colorado. Now, just a short time ago, we spoke with 49-year-old Mike Jones of Denver.

Jones says Haggard paid him for sex for about three years ending last August and also used illegal drugs. Haggard denies having sex with Jones, but today he acknowledged buying methamphetamine from him, though he says he didn't use it.

I talked with Mike Jones just a short while ago.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Mike Jones, thanks for joining us today. The biggest question, why are you coming forward? Why are you doing this?

MIKE JONES, REV. TED HAGGARD'S ACCUSER: Well, after much agonizing for the last couple of months, once I found out who he was, the more I researched about Ted Haggard and his -- excuse me, Ted Haggard and his church, and what was being said about gay marriage, I became very angry.

And I go this is not right for someone who is up there preaching that marriage should only be between a man and a woman, and he's going behind his wife's back and seeing a gay man for sex. I just felt like I owed it to the gay community to expose the hypocrisy.

LEMON: Take us back through this. Tell us when this happened. You met Ted Haggard when? And then tell us what transpired, how you met him and then what happened from there.

JONES: Sure. About three years ago, he had found my number. I'm not sure from a newspaper or from a Web site, and called me and said he was visiting. His name was Art.

LEMON: He said he found it from -- he got it from a hotel that he was staying in, possibly from a concierge, but go on.

JONES: OK. Well, I'm not listed with any concierge, but OK. So he called me and said his name was Art from Kansas City, and he wanted to hook up with me, and so we arranged that. And he came to my apartment and we continued seeing each other about once a month for that first year there.

And every time he would phone me, it was from a blocked number, so on my caller ID, I had no idea who was calling, but it didn't even matter to me, you know. He was just -- we were just hooking up.

LEMON: So you saw him three times or at least -- you had met him three years ago and then how often you said...

JONES: Yes, roughly once a month.

LEMON: Once a month. Now, without going into detail, you are saying again that there was a sexual relationship involved with this?

JONES: We did have sex.

LEMON: You did have sex?

JONES: Yes.

LEMON: And he's denying that you've had sex. He's also -- he is denying that he had sex with you. He admits, at least to KUSA, that he bout methamphetamine from you. Did he do that?

JONES: I did not provide him the meth.

LEMON: OK.

JONES: I did provide him initially the contact where he could get some.

LEMON: OK, he is saying he did not use it. Did you ever see him use it with you?

JONES: Absolutely.

LEMON: He did use it, according to you?

JONES: Absolutely.

LEMON: Why do you think he would deny all of this?

JONES: Well, you know, look at the position he's in. What I think is unfortunate is the more of denial that he gives, the messier it looks. I think what would be best is that he just admit it and move on.

LEMON: You know, there are people who are going to say that you are coming out with this because you want to have some sort of influence or affect Tuesday's election. Is that a part of it?

JONES: That is a big part of it, you bet.

LEMON: Why?

JONES: Because I've been listening to Mr. Haggard and his church, you know, actively campaign against -- a gay marriage amendment to the Constitution in Colorado, and I just thought, you know what? This is not right. Here's a man who is married, who is up there preaching to millions of his congregation and he's fooling around behind his wife's back.

LEMON: Now with this -- and you just -- you know, you said that you did provide him with a phone number for methamphetamine.

JONES: I do not say a phone number. A connection.

LEMON: You provided him with a connection. I stand corrected. You did provide him with a connection and you're also are saying that he called for you a massage. Am I correct that then that turned into sex?

JONES: I am not saying -- he said he called me for a massage.

LEMON: OK. So you're saying -- were you listed as someone -- are you a massage therapist or are you listed as an escort?

JONES: Well, at that time I was advertising as than escort. LEMON: OK, so we're talking about two things here that are possibly illegal. So are you opening yourself up to maybe some sort of legal scrutiny with all of this?

JONES: Well, I could. You know, I no longer do this type of business. I no longer advertise for that, escorting. You know, and I don't do meth at all so...

LEMON: But you did know someone who might be able to provide it for him?

JONES: Well, this was several years ago. Yes.

LEMON: OK, so what about this polygraph test that you took?

JONES: Well, I initiated it and the part that I don't understand is the part that I failed -- nothing was asked of me about the drugs. All that was asked of me was about the sex, and I don't understand why I did fail the part about when they asked me if I've had sex with Ted Haggard because that's the reason he contacted me to begin with. So I don't know how it works but...

LEMON: Are you going to take another polygraph test?

JONES: I'm not sure, because different statements now are coming out and who is more credible? Yesterday, he didn't even know me.

LEMON: Yes. Yesterday, he didn't know you.

JONES: Right.

LEMON: And then today, I don't know. Did you see the interview where he admits -- he says he admits that he did talk to you?

JONES: Right.

LEMON: That he did meet you?

JONES: Right.

LEMON: That he did not have sex with you but he admits also buying methamphetamine and throwing them away. Your response to that?

JONES: Well, you know, what? I smoked it but didn't inhale? It's that same scenario.

LEMON: How do you think that you're going to be received? I imagine you live in Denver still?

JONES: I do.

LEMON: You do? How are you going to be received in the community there? Because that's a huge, huge church and also he's a head of this evangelical organization, some 30 million people. Are you afraid of anything or do you have any concerns? JONES: You know what? I've been gay all my life and you know what? I've had a lot of hateful things said about me already but you know what? I've heard those words all my life, so, you know, those people are going to look at me as they looked at me before.

LEMON: When was the last time you spoke to Haggard or had any interaction with him?

JONES: It was in August.

LEMON: And what was that?

JONES: That was when he was calling me to indicate he wanted to send me some money through the mail.

LEMON: Is that -- are those the voicemails you have been playing for people?

JONES: Yes, yes, yes.

LEMON: Have you had any other contact? Have you seen him personally? The last time you saw him?

JONES: Was in August.

LEMON: Was in August. And that same thing happened, there was a sexual act that took place?

JONES: That's right, in August.

LEMON: And then you didn't hear from him since?

JONES: That's correct.

LEMON: Has anyone from the church or anyone from his lawyers or anyone connected with Ted Haggard tried to contact you?

JONES: As of today, as of this minute, I have had no contact from anyone.

LEMON: What do you want people to know from all of this, Mike?

JONES: Well, what I want them to know is, you know we're all human beings. We all make mistakes. We're all sinners.

LEMON: And it's true there are some people who said you ruined this man's life.

JONES: Well, you know what? By what he was preaching, he ruined a lot of people's lives, too. He touched millions of people, good and bad, but you know, you can't put yourself in a position that he was in and want respect and for people to follow your word, when you're actually doing the opposite behind their backs.

LEMON: Mike Jones, thanks for joining us.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Again, that was Denver's Mike Jones. More on this story and how it will impact the all important evangelical vote on Tuesday when the NEWSROOM continues.

LEMON: Here's the latest on the evangelical leader whose accused by a man of paying for sex and drugs. A short time ago, the Reverend Ted Haggard admitted to buying methamphetamine from the former male prostitute. That man, 49-year-old Mike Jones of Denver says he had monthly sexual encounters with Haggard for about three years, a charge Haggard denies. Here is the Reverend Ted Haggard.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HAGGARD: I called him to buy some meth but I threw it away.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who were you buying the meth for?

HAGGARD: No one -- I was buying it for me but I never used it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Have you ever used meth before?

HAGGARD: No, I have not -- and I did not ever use it with him.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And, did you ever have sex with him?

HAGGARD: No, I did not.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE JONES, REVEREND TED HAGGARD'S ACCUSER: I did not provide him the meth.

LEMON: OK.

JONES: I did provide him initially the contact where he could get some.

LEMON: OK. He's saying he did not use it. Did you ever see him using it with you?

JONES: Absolutely.

LEMON: He did use it, according to you.

JONES: Absolutely.

LEMON: Why do you think he would deny all of this?

JONES: Well, you know, look at the position he's in. What I think is unfortunate is the more of denial that he gives, the messier that it looks. I think what would be best is that he just admit it and move on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Now accuser Mike Jones says he went public with his story because of Haggard's vocal opposition to gay marriage. Now, we should note that as a prominent evangelical Haggard took part in weekly conference calls with White House staffers as part of the Bush administration's outreach to religious figures.

Joining us to talk about all that and the story, Karl Jeffers, a "Seattle Times" contributor and radio talk show host and CNN contributor Bay Buchanan, president of American Cause. Bay, I'll start with you. We always hear about October Surprise -- this appears to be a November surprise and very close to the election.

BAY BUCHANAN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: First of all, I think that this man has absolutely no credibility whatsoever. I mean, he's a drug pushing gay prostitute, involved in illegal activity. He comes out, makes an accusation against a fine man. The fact that the pastor has had some association, does suggest that he has some problems that he has to deal with.

LEMON: Bay, but he does admit, he does admit that he met this person and that he bought methamphetamines.

BUCHANAN: And I agree, that is an issue he's going to have to deal with but that will have no impact whatsoever on the proposition out there. I'll tell you what will have a -- I think something that those who support this gay agenda should be concerned about. The last thing they want -- they've got a very close agenda for gay unions. This proposition for gay unions is very, very close.

They are going into the last four days. The last thing they need is a poster child, the best known supporter of this proposition to be somebody who is a drug pushing gay prostitute. The last thing you need to send that message to those people out there in Colorado.

LEMON: And, Carl, she's saying he is a drug pushing gay prostitute, but he did admit contacting this person. It's not that he is completely innocent in all this. He contacted this man who said he was listed as an escort and then also admitted to using him for methamphetamines.

CARL JEFFERS, "SEATTLE TIMES" CONTRIBUTOR: Well, you know Don, first of all, I would hope that Bay -- and we certainly respect Bay's political acumen here and I certainly would have preferred that we were dealing with less tawdry topics this close to the election. And this notion of a surprise, I think we all ought to back off a bit on surprises.

It's getting to the point now where if the weather is a little warmer than it normally is, it's all of a sudden an October or November Surprise from one party or the other. However, what Bay though, to me only covers half of the problem. I'll be very candid with you. Neither one of these two gentlemen are fine men and Bay described the pastor as a fine man.

They're both involved with very tawdry exercises here of bad judgment and immorality. On one hand Mike Jones says I owed it to the gay community. I'm sure the gay community in America feels no debt owed to them by this guy and certainly wouldn't want to claim him. On the other hand, the pastor says that he didn't know him.

LEMON: Carl, we get what you're alluding to. But, what I want to know from you, because we're running out of time -- how is this, if at all, either Bay or Carl, either one of you jump in, is this going to have any impact on Tuesday's election.

BUCHANAN: I think it could. It won't hurt any individual candidates at all, but I think it could indeed hurt the proposition for civil unions that's out there in Colorado on the ballot and, indeed, if it gets more evangelicals out because they are angry with the accusations, then it could indeed help some of those plus (ph) candidates.

JEFFERS: I would take just the opposite view.

LEMON: All right Bay. Thank you very much. Carl, I'm sorry, I going to have to cut you off. We don't have time. Thank you so much for joining us today on the CNN NEWSROOM. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BILL BRADLEY, FORMER U.S. SENATOR (D), NEW JERSEY: I've decided to withdraw from the Democratic race for president.

JEN ROGERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Bill Bradley exited the political stage more than six years ago.

BRADLEY: You never get over it. And that doesn't mean it eats at way at your core like poison.

ROGERS: Failure is not familiar to Bill Bradley. His life-story is one of legend. An all-American basketball player at Princeton, A Rhodes Scholar, a basketball Hall-of-Famer with two NBA championships and 18 years as a Democratic senator from New Jersey. Now he's a private citizen.

BRADLEY: I was in public life to try to make the world a better place. Now I'm in the private sector, I want to do the same thing.

ROGERS: One way Bradley hopes to make a difference -- giving Americans something to feel good about.

BRADLEY: I'm Bill Bradley and this is "American Voices" only on Sirius Satellite radio.

(on-camera) People say to me -- do you miss anything about politics? And I said, yes, I miss two things. I miss not doing public policy 24 hours a day and I miss the people.

ROGERS: Bradley's weekly show features the underdogs and unsung heroes that make up the American landscape. BRADLEY: This is why this show is so much fun. I have the total authority to give credit for anything that I'd like to give credit for, so you got credit for taking a risk and showing America your great singing voice.

ROGERS: His show, his books, his work as an investment banker make up the latest chapter in a storied career, but probably not the last.

BRADLEY: I'm having such a great time now that I couldn't imagine doing anything more than I'm doing at the moment. I mean, I wish there were 28 hours in the day.

ROGERS: Bradley jokes he would gladly return to the NBA.

BRADLEY: Get a few new hips and knees. You know, who knows. Like a designated hitter in baseball, maybe they would have a designated foul shooter. If they have that, I'm right there.

ROGERS: But, while he'd consider a return to the sports arena, Bradley says the political one is out and he has no plans to run for office again.

Jen Rogers, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

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