Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Saturday Morning News
Prominent Evangelical Pastor Speaks Out About Shocking Allegations While His Accuser Faces Questions About Credibility; On Election Day All Eyes Are On Ohio; Iraq Prepares For Saddam Verdict; Iraq War Is Key This Election; "Borat" Interview
Aired November 04, 2006 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: Now in the news, another call for Donald Rumsfeld's ouster. In an editorial to be published Monday, the "Military Times" media group says it is time for President Bush to "face the hard, bruising truth that Rumsfeld must go."
Newspaper officials say the editorial is prompted by the president's statement this week that he intends to keep Rumsfeld as defense secretary until the end of his term.
On the road and on message -- President Bush is in Colorado today, continuing his campaign blitz before Tuesday's mid-term elections. The president is stumping for GOP candidates in states that supported his reelection bid two years ago. And just about three hours from now, he is going to deliver his weekly radio address on television. We'll carry that live right here on CNN.
Calling is quits -- Ohio Republican Bob Ney turned in his resignation weeks after some in his party threatened to expel him. Ney pleaded guilty last month, admitting he took trips and gifts from disgraced lobbyist Jack Abramoff in exchange for official favors. Ney will be sentenced in January and he could face more than two years in prison.
Let's get you an update now on what caused Yankee pitcher Cory Lidle's plane to crash into a Manhattan high rise last month. The National Transportation Safety Board is saying it appears wind pushed the plane off course. Investigators also say Lidle apparently didn't have enough room to make a sharp turn that he had attempted.
T.J. HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: The chant is "Death To America!"
The occasion?
The 27th anniversary of the day Iran took America hostage. In Tehran today, thousands gathered in front of the former U.S. Embassy to celebrate that event. Twenty-seven years ago today, militant students take over the American Embassy in Tehran and held 52 American diplomats hostage for 444 days.
We turn now to some weather now.
And for that we turn to Reynolds Wolf -- good morning, sir.
REYNOLDS WOLF, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Good morning. (WEATHER REPORT)
HOLMES: All right, that sounds good, Reynolds.
We'll see you soon.
WOLF: Yes.
HOLMES: And, of course, we run-down the top stories every 15 minutes for you here on CNN SATURDAY MORNING. We have in-depth coverage for you all morning long. Your next check of the headlines coming up at 7:15 Eastern.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REV. TED HAGGARD, FORMER EVANGELICAL LEADER: I called him to buy some meth, then I threw it away.
QUESTION: And who were you buying the meth for?
HAGGARD: No one. I was buying it for me, but I never used it.
QUESTION: Have you ever used meth before?
HAGGARD: No, I have not.
QUESTION: So, why...
HAGGARD: And I did not ever use it with him.
QUESTION: And did you ever have sex with him?
HAGGARD: No, I did not.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NGUYEN: All right, there you go. Some answers from Reverend Ted Haggard that trigger, well, even more questions. We'll take you to Colorado Springs live in just a few moments to try to get some answers to those questions.
From the CNN Center, this is CNN SATURDAY MORNING.
It is November 4th, everybody.
Good morning.
I'm Betty Nguyen.
HOLMES: And I'm T.J. Holmes.
Thank you so much for being with us this morning.
NGUYEN: Well, he said he did buy drugs, but he didn't have gay sex. A prominent Evangelical pastor speaks out about the shocking allegations against him and his accuser faces questions about his credibility.
CNN's Sean Callebs has the latest on this test of faith for the pastor and his supporters.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A man of god, the Reverend Ted Haggard admits to succumbing to temptation. He admits buying crystal meth through Mike Jones, a one-time Denver prostitute.
Jones recorded calls between he and Haggard.
HAGGARD: Hi, Mike.
This is Art.
Hey, I was just calling to see if we could get...
CALLEBS: Haggard says he never used the drugs, insisting he threw them away.
Jones also alleges he and Haggard had a three year sexual relationship. But he failed a lie detector test on the subject.
MIKE JONES, HAGGARD'S ACCUSER: I don't understand why I did fail the part about when they asked me if I have had sex with Ted Haggard, because that's the reason that he contacted me.
CALLEBS: Haggard denies a sexual relationship. The Evangelical minister says he did contact Jones for a massage after a Denver concierge recommended Jones as a masseuse.
This much is true -- the allegations forced Haggard to step down as head of the 14,000-member New Life Church in Colorado Springs. And he resigned as president of the politically powerful National Association of Evangelicals, which boasts 30 million members.
HAGGARD: Both of those roles are based on trust and right now my trust is -- is questionable.
CALLEBS: Haggard's accuser says this is a case of hypocrisy from an influential leader of the religious right.
JONES: You know, look at the position he's in. What I think is unfortunate is the more of denial that he gives, the messier it looks. I think what would be best is if he just admit it and move on.
CALLEBS: Haggard was at the top of his profession, one of a handful of ministers taking part in a weekly conference call with President Bush or top White House officials. Jones chose the timing, just before Tuesday's mid-term election, to show what he calls the hypocrisy of Haggard and others in the religious right.
The issue of gay marriage is on the ballot in Colorado and several other states. Haggard and Evangelicals are fighting gay marriage tooth and nail. (BEGIN AUDIO CLIP FROM EVANGELICAL CHRISTIAN CONCERT)
CALLEBS: It's been a series of stunning developments for many in the New Life Church.
Associate Pastor Rob Brendle says Haggard has been a mentor to him for the past 10 years.
REV. ROB BRENDLE, ASSOCIATE PASTOR, NEW LIFE CHURCH: And we know that all of us, except for the grace of god, are just one step away from that darkness temporarily defining our lives, as well. So it doesn't surprise me to see this.
CALLEBS: Brendle says he expects to play a videotaped message from Haggard at church services Sunday.
Meanwhile, an oversight committee has launched an investigation, which could very well determine Haggard's future.
(on camera): Do you think that he'll ever preach from this pulpit again?
BRENDLE: I don't have any way of knowing.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NGUYEN: So, denial, disbelief, sadness and even support -- some of the reaction from Reverend Ted Haggard's congregation to the accusations against him.
CNN's Sean Callebs joins us now live from Colorado Springs, where the church is located.
Does it seem like the community is rallying around this reverend?
CALLEBS: Well, it's really interesting. When this allegation first came out, a lot of people in the area simply didn't believe the allegations. If you look at the way this has played out in the media, the first day people said, you know, this is preposterous, this is somebody just trying to take advantage of the reverend before Tuesday's mid-term election.
But things changed dramatically yesterday after Haggard came out and admitted to some indiscretions. And that is when things really changed. It was almost a bombshell at this church, if you will.
We are really on the sprawling campus of this facility, the church, that Haggard built, 14,000 members. It's really as large as a medium sized college. But don't expect to see him any time soon, Betty. We are told that the four member committee doing the investigation now has told him to keep a low profile, not to do any media interviews.
And this also has the attention of the Denver police, which is looking into this now and wants to talk with anyone who may have any knowledge about any kind of relationship that Mike Jones, the accuser, and the Reverend Haggard did have.
NGUYEN: Sean, what I find is interesting, aside from all the information that's come out, hearing the reverend speak for himself in that little snippet of an interview there, where he says he went to the massage therapist to buy some meth, but he threw it away.
When the congregation, folks in that community, saw that, have you got any reaction to the reverend's own words?
CALLEBS: Really, we -- we do. And to a person who -- the people we talked with, we were here a couple of hours last night and there were a couple of different prayer services going on. And people said this is all about forgiveness, that this is simply a man.
He may be, at one time, the head of NAE, the National Association of Evangelicals, but he is prone to make mistakes, commit sin, just like anyone else. And they said, if, indeed, that is true, they want to forgive him, they want to bring him back into the fold at some point, once this is all worked out.
But, indeed, that is after the oversight committee, which could play a huge role in whether he ever preaches at this church again or whether he ever assumes any large national role with the NAE.
NGUYEN: Yes, no doubt.
CNN's Sean Callebs, thanks for joining us live this morning, Sean.
Thank you.
CALLEBS: Thank you.
HOLMES: We're now down to three days before America votes in those critical mid-term elections. And, of course, the issue here, the balance of power in Washington. And once again, all eyes are on Ohio, a bellwether state that helped clinch the presidency just two years ago.
CNN national correspondent Bob Franken explains.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Congresswoman Deborah Pryce, who is fourth ranking Republican in the House, usually hasn't had to battle this hard. But this time, she had a huge fight to get back to the toss-up category.
She was knocked for a loop a few weeks ago by the Mark Foley scandal and the controversy that swirled around House leaders like Speaker Dennis Hastert.
Her Democratic opponent, County Commissioner Mary Jo Kilroy, took full advantage on the fact that Pryce had once called Foley a friend. Kilroy took out a hard-hitting radio spot on Christian stations.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM MARY JO KILROY RADIO AD)
MARY JO KILROY (D-OH), CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE: No wonder Pryce refused to criticize Hastert for ignoring the Foley problem.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FRANKEN: The campaign has moved on and Pryce has fought back from the eight point deficit in the polls after Foley exploded to statistically even. But the bitter taste lingers.
REP. DEBORAH PRYCE (R-OH), CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE:
It's a non-issue. My opponent overplayed her hand on a non- issue.
FRANKEN: Her opponent, Mary Jo Kilroy, obviously disagrees. But the campaign has moved forward.
KILROY: The biggest issue is that she has been part of the Republican leadership that has the wrong set of priorities, taking our country in the wrong direction.
FRANKEN: Though Foley has been relegated somewhat to the background, Republicans are dealing with the many ethics scandals swirling around their party, particularly in Ohio. Bob Ney, for instance, who was awaiting prison for corruption charges while a member of Congress, comes from a neighboring district. The potential spillover to Pryce could be a challenge to her.
In the meantime, Kilroy and Pryce hurl their taunts on other matters.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM CAMPAIGN AD)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Candidate Mary Jo Kilroy said she wouldn't raise taxes. But just a year later, Kilroy cast the deciding vote to double the county sales tax.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM CAMPAIGN AD)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who voted against a combat bonus for the troops but took a $30,000 pay raise for himself?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Deborah Pryce.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Deborah Pryce. Pryce is wrong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: we want to go now and get the latest on this Ohio race and others that may prove critical this Tuesday.
National correspondent Bob Franken is...
FRANKEN: ... that she wants to ride the wave...
HOLMES: Oh, there he is.
FRANKEN: ... the Democratic wave, which they hope will result in their taking control in the Congress -- T.J.
HOLMES: Hey, there, Bob.
I think we had a little issue with the -- with some audio there.
I'm with you now.
FRANKEN: That's right.
HOLMES: All right, we're together now, so we wanted to get some of the latest. We kind of missed the last bit of your answer there.
So, I wanted to ask you, is Ohio any different from the rest of the country in that everybody's number one issue is Iraq this election season?
FRANKEN: Well, it -- Iraq is, of course, a huge issue in Ohio, which is presented as such a bellwether, such a representative state in the entire nation.
But there are the other issues out there, too, the questions about corruption that are particularly swirling around the Republican Party. And there are the other questions.
So, Ohio is really a typical state. But, yes, Iraq is the issue that has become the defining issue of this campaign.
HOLMES: Well, a big question always, the Democrats say they certainly can learn a thing or two from the Republicans in terms of mobilizing their people and getting the vote out.
Is there an advantage there in Ohio? Are Democrats catching up and going to try to neutralize some of that advantage Republicans have often had?
FRANKEN: Well, the Republicans have really put together a machine, a get out the vote machine, nationwide that has become the stuff of legend. The Democrats say that they've learned quite a few lessons from them, that they're going to try and go toe to toe with them.
I think that what that really is, is more -- less a prediction than a hope.
HOLMES: Well, Bob, we sure do appreciate you.
We'll let you hop back into the Election Express bus there and take a spin around town.
But thank you so much.
We'll see you plenty.
FRANKEN: Thank you.
NGUYEN: That could be a little dangerous, Bob.
Just stay between the lines, if you would.
HOLMES: That's all you've got to do.
NGUYEN: All right, tune into CNN prime time election night. That is next Tuesday, actually, this coming Tuesday. Wolf Blitzer, Anderson Cooper, Paula Zahn and Lou Dobbs -- there they are -- the best political team on television, as your votes are counted. We have the races, the results, the ramifications. All of it Tuesday night beginning at 7:00 Eastern.
HOLMES: Yes, and then CNN's election night coverage continues with a special edition of "LARRY KING LIVE." That's going to be at midnight Eastern. You can hear from the winners and the losers across the country plus expert analysis, again, from the best squad, the best political squad on TV.
NGUYEN: Well, did you -- did you have any question about that?
I mean, if not, we will continue to tell you.
Well, a verdict we want to tell you about in the Saddam Hussein trial. That is expected tomorrow. But, big tensions. They are running high. And security -- it is tight.
How is the Iraqi government preparing for possible violence and chaos in the aftermath of this decision that's coming up on Tuesday?
Well, we'll have a live report in about five minutes.
HOLMES: Plus, we're going to take a little bit of a turn.
You recognize that guy right there?
I know you do, Betty.
NGUYEN: Be very afraid.
HOLMES: This is Betty's new buddy here. You need to hear from him a little later. We talked to him. Betty talked to him.
NGUYEN: Yes.
HOLMES: You've got to hear what these two had to say each other.
NGUYEN: He's crazy.
HOLMES: He's coming up in about 35 minutes.
Stick around for that.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: Now in the news, another call for Donald Rumsfeld's ouster. In an editorial to be published Monday, the "Military Times" media group says it's time for President Bush to "face the hard, bruising truth" that Rumsfeld must go. Newspaper officials say the editorial is prompted by the president's statement this week that he intends to keep Rumsfeld as defense secretary until the end of his term.
Meanwhile, President Bush campaigning again today, just three days before the critical mid-term elections. Today he's going to be in Colorado. The president is stumping for GOP candidates in states that he supported -- or, rather, that supported him in his reelection bid two years ago.
Less than three hours from now, he's scheduled to deliver his weekly radio address and today it will be a televised radio address. And CNN will carry that live.
And calling it quits -- Ohio Republican Bob Ney turns in his resignation weeks after some in his party threaten to expel him. Ney pleaded guilty last month, admitting he took trips and gifts from disgraced lobbyist Jack Abramoff in exchange for official favors. Ney will be sentenced in January. He could face more than two years in prison.
NGUYEN: An Israeli air strike killed a senior member of a Palestinian militant group today and wounded two of his bodyguards. In a separate incident, Palestinian security sources say four Palestinians were killed in an Israeli sniper attack in the Israeli border city of Beit Hanoun. Israel says it's part of its offensive against Palestinian rocket squads.
Well, we do run-down the top stories every 15 minutes right here on CNN with in-depth coverage all morning long. Your next check of the headlines, that's coming up at 7:30 Eastern.
Some terrorism detainees have spent years inside secret CIA prisons and the Bush administration wants to make sure they're never allowed to talk about what happened to them there.
In new court filings first reported by the "Washington Post," the federal government says the CIA's methods for questioning suspects are among the nation's most sensitive secrets and that prisoners should never be allowed to reveal them, not even to a lawyer.
Officials say terrorists could use that information to train and counter interrogation techniques and potentially impair the CIA's future ability to obtain vital intelligence.
Now, a lawyer for one terrorism suspect who spent time in a CIA prison says the administration is trying to use secrecy concerns to "cancel illegal or embarrassing executive conduct."
HOLMES: A verdict is expected tomorrow in the Saddam Hussein trial and Iraq is steeling itself for an outbreak of violence.
Our Aneesh Raman is joining us now from Baghdad with some new information -- and, Aneesh, is it obvious that Baghdad and the surrounding areas are getting ready for whatever may come after this verdict?
ANEESH RAMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is increasingly so, T.J.
We're hearing from an Iraqi government official to expect a 24- hour ban on pedestrian vehicular traffic in the capital province; other provinces, as well. Military leaves have been canceled. Police themselves on high alert. All of this, as you mentioned, as the country braces for Sunday, the day Saddam Hussein, the dictator turned defendant, will hear the verdict in this, his first trial; hear, as well, the sentence.
He faces potentially the death penalty.
Now this trial has been legal precedent in the writing, critics have said clumsily so. It started October 19th last year. The chief judge has been replaced. Three of the defense lawyers have been killed. Multiple breaks, multiple outbursts by the defendants, walkouts by their lawyers. And it all culminates on Sunday, when one by one the defendants -- and we understand Saddam will be the last to enter the courtroom -- will hear from the five judge panel the verdict.
Saddam, of course, faces crimes against humanity, charges within that ranging from willful execution and murder all the way to mass deportation. And they will also, as I mentioned, hear the sentence.
And as we have reported this morning, Iraq is, in turn, bracing for an increase in violence, specifically here in the capital. Again, we're waiting for exact details on this curfew that we expect to be announced any time -- T.J.
HOLMES: Aneesh, on another front there, the missing American soldier, an abducted American soldier -- any word on where he may be or what his fate may be?
RAMAN: Well, we're getting updates from his uncle, who has now said that those who have kidnapped Ahmed al-Taai back on October 23rd are demanding $250,000 as a ransom. His uncle, as well, saying he believes the kidnappers are Saddam loyalists, extreme Baathists. Of course, the military has been searching exhaustively since October 23rd. There was that week long, essentially cordoning off of Sadr City, a bastion of Shia support for the radical Shiite cleric, Muqtada al-Sadr.
That ended when the Iraqi prime minister issued an order that those checkpoints had to be removed, in conjunction, we were told, with U.S. officials. They are working on active investigated. We heard during the week from the military. They are concentrating their efforts east of the Tigris River on at least three main areas here in the capital.
But, again, the latest word coming from the kidnapped soldier's uncle, a ransom demand of $250,000 -- T.J.
HOLMES: All right, our Aneesh Raman reporting from Baghdad.
Thank you so much, Aneesh.
And you can stay with CNN for the latest from Iraq. And coming up tonight at 8:00 Eastern, John Roberts is in Baghdad with a look at how the war will influence the U.S. mid-term elections. A special edition of "THIS WEEK AT WAR" only here on CNN.
NGUYEN: Well, right now, we're going to find out how the weather is going to influence your day. Is in a Saturday morning and, Reynolds, folks have plans.
What do you have on tap for them weather-wise?
(WEATHER REPORT)
WOLF: We'll tell you what to expect coming up in a few moments. That is in just a few moments. And right now, at the moment, is to send it over to T.J.
HOLMES: Appreciate that.
We're going to talk about rude, crude and funny. Not Reynolds, this guy -- "Borat," the movie.
NGUYEN: His hair may be in a rival to Reynolds', though, huh?
HOLMES: Oh, Reynolds, I wasn't going to go there, my man.
But, yes, you know this guy, this movie. It hits the theaters and this character dropped by CNN. And he talked to our Ms. Betty Nguyen here. You have got to hear this.
NGUYEN: Yes, I'm still scarred from it.
HOLMES: It's about 30 minutes away.
Stay here.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WOLF: There it is. Take a look. This is from Maui, Hawaii. This was sent in from one of our viewers. This is an I-Report. And, again, just a great shot that we have of a water spout just off the coast of Maui, just a very neat thing to see.
Certainly, thankfully, no damage was caused by this, but certainly kind of an eerie look, if you will.
(WEATHER REPORT)
NGUYEN: We do want to talk about something serious, the Haggard sexual scandal. Personal issues playing out in the national spotlight. What's the reaction been? And are the revelations doing harm to the Evangelical community?
We're going to talk to the managing editor of belief.net in just a few minutes.
HOLMES: Plus, the war and the mid-terms -- how big of an issue is Iraq as we get ready to head to the polls?
A report from our Candy Crowley, coming up in about 10 minutes here on CNN SATURDAY MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NGUYEN: "Now in the News," another call for Donald Rumsfeld's ouster in an editorial to be published Monday. The Military Times Media Group says it's time for President Bush to, quote, "face the hard, bruising truth that Rumsfeld must go." Newspaper officials say the editorial is prompted by the president's statement this week that he intends to keep Rumsfeld as defense secretary until the end of his term.
Scientists at a U.S. weapons lab complained more than two weeks ago about a government Web site displaying details of Saddam Hussein's nuclear program, that is according to The New York Times. Any sensitive information was supposed to be removed before documents were posted online for scholars to study. Well, National Intelligence Director John Negroponte's office shut down that Web site Thursday night.
President Bush rallies his party faithful just three days before critical midterm elections. The Republican control of Congress could be at stake and the president is stumping for GOP candidates in states that supported his reelection bid two years ago. Now later, he's going to deliver his weekly radio address, this time on television. We of course are going to carry that live right here at CNN at 10:07 Eastern.
HOLMES: Some new information here on what caused Yankees pitcher Cory Lidle's small plane to crash into a Manhattan high rise last month. The National Transportation Safety Board is now saying it appears that wind pushed the plane off course. Investigators also say Lidle apparently didn't have enough room to make a sharp turn that he had attempted.
(WEATHER REPORT)
HOLMES: And we do run down the top stories every 15 minutes here on CNN SATURDAY MORNING with in-depth coverage for you all morning long. Your next check of the headlines is coming up at 7:45 Eastern.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My jaw just dropped to say here he's just known all over Colorado Springs here and around the nation. I originally came out from California to come here to new life. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's no truth to this at all. I was just disappointed because I loved him as a senior pastor. And it was just sad to see him move on like that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Voices of disbelief, all kinds of emotions going through the community there. Mixed reaction to the Haggard sex scandal in the evangelical community.
Hello and good morning to you, everybody. I'm T.J. Holmes. Thanks so much for being here.
NGUYEN: Yes, good morning everyone. I'm Betty Nguyen. We want to thank you for starting your day with us. As you heard, a prominent pastor denies allegations of a gay sexual relationship. Reverend Ted Haggard says he did buy drugs from his accuser. The allegations against Haggard sent shock waves through the conservative Christian community.
And CNN's Brianna Keilar has the latest.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At first prominent evangelical pastor Ted Haggard denied he knew male prostitute Mike Jones. But Haggard told a reporter for Denver's KUSA that he bought methamphetamine from Jones.
REV. TED HAGGARD, NEW LIFE CHURCH: Yes. I did call him. I did call him.
UNIDENTIFIED KUSA REPORTER: And what did you call him about?
HAGGARD: I called him to buy some meth, but I threw it away.
UNIDENTIFIED KUSA REPORTER: And who were you buying the Meth for?
HAGGARD: No one. I was buying it for me but I never used it.
UNIDENTIFIED KUSA REPORTER: Have you ever used meth before?
HAGGARD: No, I have not. And I did not ever use it with him.
UNIDENTIFIED KUSA REPORTER: And did you ever have sex with him?
HAGGARD: No, I did not.
KEILAR: Haggard says he went to Jones for a massage. But Jones claims the two had a three-year sexual relationship and that he saw the reverend use meth.
MIKE JONES, HAGGARD'S ACCUSER: It has been hard for me because emotionally I just don't want to destroy someone. But this story needs to be out because it is so wrong. KEILAR: Jones took a polygraph. The test administrator said several of Jones' answers indicated some deception but stress and exhaustion could have affected the results. Haggard has questioned the timing of the allegations. The reverend has close ties to the Bush administration, participating in a weekly conference call with White House staffers and other religious leaders.
DAN BARTLETT, WHITE HOUSE COUNSELOR: I think it's important that we do find out exactly what is right and what is wrong here and get to the bottom of it.
KEILAR (on camera): Haggard backs a proposed constitutional ban on same-sex marriage that goes before Colorado voters next week. Jones says he decided to come forward with the accusations after learning of Haggard's identity and his support for that ban.
In Washington, I'm Brianna Keilar.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: Well, personal struggles playing out on a national stage. Will the accusations against Reverend Ted Haggard affect the evangelical movement? Joining us from New York with some insight is Deborah Caldwell. She is managing editor and one of the founders of Beliefnet.com, the online magazine about religion and spirituality.
Thank you so much for being here. And let's just start by -- I mean, we don't know exactly what all the facts are. But just looking at it from what we know now, is there any way he can survive this?
DEBORAH CALDWELL, BELIEFNET.COM: Well, certainly not his ministry as he knows it, it will not survive, even with what he has admitted to. There's really no way. However, it should be emphasized that evangelicals are very for giving, so I'm sure that they will forgive him ultimately.
HOLMES: They can forgive, but certainly not forget. But his ministry, as it's known, is done, your are saying?
CALDWELL: I would think so. I mean, there have been other ministers such as Jimmy Swaggart and Jim Bakker who have had falls from grace and, you know, they have come back in some form. But I really can't imagine that Reverend Haggard will be able to continue at New Life as he has in the past.
HOLMES: We've seen, and you mentioned a couple there, scandals -- sex scandals involving religious leaders. Have we gotten to the point, and maybe their followers, we see so many over the years, high profile, that, you know, people come to the realization that these people are human and they more quickly and easily can forgive and maybe not as shocked by it so much anymore?
CALDWELL: Yes. I think that they are perhaps not as shocked by it. The ones that we have mentioned before happened in the '80s. And I think back then there was a lot of shock. I think the culture in general now is much more aware of people's indiscretions. But I also want to emphasize that, again, evangelicals are very forgiving people. It is part of Christian theology, in fact, it's the center of Christian theology, is forgiveness. So as long as they get the sense that he has repented, they will welcome him back into the Christian fold. Just not as a leader, I would assume.
HOLMES: Why do we keep seeing this with religious leaders and allegations or revelations of sex scandals and oftentimes homosexuality?
CALDWELL: Well, I don't know that we -- it's accurate to say oftentimes homosexuality, but why we see lapses in morality, I think because evangelicals live in a very high pressure culture, sort of a culture that asks them to conform to a certain way of living. And it is -- especially if you're in a leadership position like that, it's very difficult to maintain that sense of perfection and propriety.
And eventually, you know, everybody is capable of wrongdoing and sin. And so I think it -- the sins or the wrongdoings become more magnified among evangelical leaders.
HOLMES: Well, again, this is one that we're going to be following for a while. But, again, we thank you so much for spending some time with us. Deborah Caldwell...
CALDWELL: Thank you.
HOLMES: Again, managing editor, one ever the founders of Beliefnet.com. Thank you so much for spending time with us this morning.
CALDWELL: Sure.
NGUYEN: All politics are local, so goes the conventional wisdom. But this year, the gunfire in Iraq is echoing loud and clear in America. From the small towns to the big races, a key is always the war. And here's CNN's senior political correspondent Candy Crowley.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): If November '06 is a political explosion that shakes up Washington, the fuse was lit in the late summer of '04 when for the first time a majority of Americans turned sour on the war.
That winter, Major Tammy Duckworth of the Army National Guard was in a hospital bed recovering from the loss of both legs. She had lots of time to think.
TAMMY DUCKWORTH (D), ILLINOIS CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE: I did my research and I realized that only two members of the entire Congress had a child serving in Iraq. And I thought, these people are not making the same sacrifice our troops make every single day. And, you know, so here I am, a lot less sleep later, a few more miles on my wheelchair.
(LAUGHTER)
CROWLEY (on camera): Still standing, right?
DUCKWORTH: Still standing, yes.
(LAUGHTER)
CROWLEY (voice-over): She is the Democratic candidate in Illinois's 6th Congressional District on the outskirts of Chicago. She's one of a half dozen vets who have fought in Iraq or Afghanistan, recruited by Democrats to run for office. Her story and her chances brought powerhouses to her side. She talked Social Security, college costs and health care, but the war permeates in the atmosphere here the 6th. It permeates elsewhere.
DAN BALZ, THE WASHINGTON POST: We have used so many National Guard and Reserve troops. This has affected small towns in lots of states. And so I think there's a kind of a pervasiveness about its impact that people feel all over the country.
CROWLEY: With the death toll rising and support falling, national Democrats opened the election season on the war. It will be their closing argument as well.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tell the Congress, it's long past time to put down their rubber stamp and ask the hard questions about Iraq. The Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee is responsible for the content of this advertising.
CROWLEY: In the House and the Senate, seats that nine months ago, three months ago looked safely Republican no longer are. Illinois's 6th District has been GOP-ville, sending retiring Republican Henry Hyde to Congress for 30 years.
PETER ROSKAM (R), ILLINOIS CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE: This is a real treat to spend some time with you.
CROWLEY: State Senator Peter Roskam, often described as a rising Republican star here, may not be able to hold onto the 6th.
ROSKAM: You know, the people in Washington, D.C., who cooked up my opponent's candidacy sort of got things wrong, didn't they? We don't have candidates imposed on us from Washington. We send our representatives out to Washington, D.C., isn't that right?
CROWLEY: The race is close enough that Roskam has pulled in some celebs of his own, including the Republican's designated hitter.
LAURA BUSH, FIRST LADY: Dave McSweeney and Peter Roskam will be champions of the men and women of the United States military. All of us are proud of the men and women who are deployed around the world defending our country.
CROWLEY (on camera): Either way you look at it, no matter where you are, whatever else is being said, the '06 elections are about the war, always the war. Candy Crowley, CNN, Elk Grove Village, Illinois.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NGUYEN: There you go. That's our Candy Crowley, part of the best political team on television. And she is going to join Wolf Blitzer, Anderson Cooper, Paula Zahn and Lou Dobbs, you see them all there, for the races, the results, the ramifications. That is Tuesday night. Be here beginning at 7:00 Eastern because CNN is your political headquarters.
HOLMES: All right. Well, they tell us we don't have much time to chat. So Veronica, what's up?
VERONICA DE LA CRUZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'll just get right to it.
HOLMES: How are you doing?
DE LA CRUZ: I'm doing well. You know, we were just talking about making CNN your campaign headquarters. Make CNN.com your campaign headquarters as well as America heads to the polls on November 7th, like I was just saying. Make sure to check out CNN.com. We've got a special report at CNN.com/AmericaVotes. I'm going to show it to you now.
Let's go and start with the main page. You can navigate through the various tabs to track live results on the Senate, House and gubernatorial races. We're going to be keeping an eye on every race by displaying vote counts, the percentage of votes each candidate is receiving, and the precincts that have been counting.
Also, if you're voting on a ballot measure, we'll have results state-by-state on all propositions and amendments like Arizona's Prop. 103, for example, which would make English the official language in the state.
And it's not too late to get on the campaign trail with CNN correspondents. You too can jump on the Election Express. I believe that -- who was it, Bob Franken, he was out there in Ohio behind the wheel?
HOLMES: Driving the bus, yes.
DE LA CRUZ: Driving the bus. You can get a behind-the-scenes look at what's going on state by state. Also, weigh in with your thoughts by heading to our I-Report section. And don't forget that Monday, that is two days away, November 6th, CNN Pipeline will be free for the entire day.
HOLMES: I need it.
DE LA CRUZ: Yes. Now here's your chance to catch up and watch all the hot political stories, issues and various controversial TV ads before you head out to vote. And then Tuesday, our special coverage on Pipeline begins at 7:00 p.m. Eastern. It will be anchored by my colleague, Richard Lui and yours truly.
NGUYEN: Oh, we will definitely have to watch.
HOLMES: Lui, truly, very nice.
DE LA CRUZ: Yes, CNN Pipeline, yes. So you can start by going to CNN.com/AmericaVotes. I'll be back a little later this morning with some politically themed I-Reports and our pick for the best I- Report of the week.
NGUYEN: We always look forward to that. And of course you get the...
(CROSSTALK)
DE LA CRUZ: And we've got a special prize.
NGUYEN: ... T-shirt, right?
HOLMES: Not the T-shirt? Something new?
DE LA CRUZ: No, it's a date with T.J. this time.
NGUYEN: Oh, well...
HOLMES: I hope you pick the right winner.
DE LA CRUZ: Or a date with Borat. I'm really looking forward to your interview with Borat, by the way.
NGUYEN: Yes. Speaking of Borat, crazy.
DE LA CRUZ: Crazy.
NGUYEN: He's on the big screen, as you know, he's bigoted, he's backward and boorish. And you do not want to miss my conversation with him about his new movie. I'm still a little traumatized from this but it's all coming up after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: "Now in the News," a fresh call to get rid of Donald Rumsfeld as defense secretary. An editorial to be published in Monday's Army Times publication says Rumsfeld has lost the support and respect of the military leadership. The Times previously called for Rumsfeld to resign in 2004 when the Abu Ghraib Prison scandal broke.
Scientists at a U.S. weapons lab complained more than two weeks ago about a government Web site displaying details of Saddam Hussein's nuclear program, that's according to The New York Times. Any sensitive information was supposed to be removed before documents were posted online for scholars to study. National Intelligence Director John Negroponte's office shut down the Web site Thursday night.
NGUYEN: Well, the FDA has traced the source of that salmonella outbreak to tomatoes served in restaurants. More than 180 people in 21 states and Canada got sick. The FDA is now attempting to trace the tainted tomatoes and figure out how they got contaminated.
We run down the top stories every 15 minutes right here on CNN SATURDAY MORNING with in-depth coverage all morning long. Your next check of the headlines coming up at the top of the hour.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SACHA BARON COHEN, ACTOR/COMEDIAN, "BORAT": I get a window from a glass. You must get window from a glass. I get a step. He must get a step. I get a clock radio, he cannot afford. Great success.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NGUYEN: It is the world according to Borat. The movie is all the rave at the theaters this weekend. Borat is a journalist from Kazakhstan who traveled to the U.S. to report on all aspects of American life. But you know what, he's not real. You can tell that, right? Neither is his reporting, which some call offensive. But the movie will have you doubled over laughing, no doubt.
Borat is really, though, a comedian named Sacha Baron Cohen. You may remember him from "Da Ali G. Show" where he first began raising eyebrows. Well, I spoke with Borat earlier and asked him how he feels about some of the negative comments critics are making about his film.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
"BORAT": I say to them, thank you for these compliments. In my -- yes, in my country there have been much controversy about the amount of antisemitisms in my movie film. However, eventually, the Kazakh censor allowed it to be released after deciding that there was just enough.
NGUYEN: Well, but you know they're not happy with your movie. In fact, they, Kazakhstan, has bought ads right here on CNN trying to promote a better light of their country. So are they not getting the humor here, too?
"BORAT": These advertisements that you refer to are actually a propaganda by enemies of Kazakhstan, evil knit-wits, Uzbekistan. They have put advertisements saying that we treat women equally and that all religions are tolerated. These are disgusting fabrications.
NGUYEN: Wait, wait, wait, that's disgusting? Treating women equally?
"BORAT": Yes. This is a fabrications about my country. And if Uzbekistan do not stop making advertisements like this, we will not rule out the possibility of military intervention.
NGUYEN: So you didn't learn that that's one of the things here in America that we try to promote, equality, whether it be...
"BORAT": You know.
NGUYEN: ... of your races or your religion. You didn't get that on your travels?
"BORAT": Yes, I see this. And now I take back many of these lessons to Kazakhstan. We now have implement the (INAUDIBLE) reforms which mean that now women are now permitted to travel on inside of bus.
NGUYEN: The deputy foreign minister has invited to you come back. Are you willing to take that trip or are you a little bit afraid because I know in your movie trailers you said you must watch the movie or you will be executed.
"BORAT": Yes, if the movie film is not a success, my government has told me I will be execute. But of course I will be returning to Kazakhstan to see my family and my childrens, particularly Belak (ph), Beram (ph) and Huey Lewis.
NGUYEN: Huey Lewis...
"BORAT": Huey Lewis.
NGUYEN: Huey Lewis, that's a singer here in America.
"BORAT": What!
NGUYEN: Yes.
"BORAT": Belak I also look forward to. He's 11 years old. And I look forward to seeing him and his wife and their new child.
NGUYEN: At 11?
"BORAT": Yes. We are, by the way, hoping to sell this new child to your singer Madonna.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NGUYEN: Oh, my. That's just a taste of how incredibly crazy this man...
HOLMES: That was fun. The whole thing was fun.
NGUYEN: And I bet you will guess, T.J., or maybe you will never guess who Borat has a crush on.
HOLMES: Well, I saw the whole interview, so I know he was pretty sweet on you. But...
NGUYEN: Well, it's another person, though. You might be surprised.
HOLMES: It could be anybody, so by all means, let us know.
NGUYEN: OK. You know what, we have got more of my conversation with Borat. I know you're riveted, you're at the edge of your seats. But hold on, we'll be back after the break, and trust me, you will be traumatized to. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NGUYEN: All right. So before the break, you saw my -- at least the first part of my interview with Borat. Well, the alter ego of comedian Sacha Baron Cohen, as a matter of fact, is the actual name but Borat before -- his character Borat, but Borat happens to be though a big fan of President Bush, believe it or not.
Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
"BORAT": We in Kazakhstan are very big fannies of your Premier Bush. We think he is not only a wise man, but also very strong, although perhaps not as strong as his father, Barbara.
NGUYEN: That would be his mother.
"BORAT": No, Barbara, the one with the big head and white hair. Barbara!
NGUYEN: You know what, I'm not even going to go there with you, Borat. But let me ask you one last thing because I'm very curious about this, OK? I have seen you in this movie in a neon man bikini. How in the world did you get into that contraption and why would you want to wear that?
"BORAT": This bikini that I wear, it start on the shoulders, go down here until it makes circumference around the khrum (ph). It is the official costume of the Kazakh national swimming team.
NGUYEN: And were you on that?
"BORAT": No, but I had a friend who was in it.
NGUYEN: And you found one that was a little too small for you, apparently.
"BORAT": Thank you very much.
NGUYEN: I didn't mean it like that. Oh, stop it, Borat.
"BORAT": No, please, you can come and stay my house and I will show you.
NGUYEN: That's quite all right. I'll take your word for it. Borat, it's been a pleasure meeting you. Very interesting, a bit frightening, but still a pleasure.
"BORAT": And, please, I would like to meet this Paula Zahn. Wow, wow, wee wa!
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NGUYEN: He loves -- we had to cut that off because you don't want to know what he said after that. HOLMES: Yes. There was more.
NGUYEN: Yes. There was much more. But the whole man bikini, yes, it's tainted in my head this morning, frightening, frightening.
HOLMES: Sorry to hit you with that so early in the morning.
NGUYEN: Yes. We should have told you it was graphic. We really -- hopefully you're not eating breakfast right now. More from Borat, though, that's coming up later this morning.
HOLMES: Also we're going to be talking election and Big Brother is watching. And he could be a Democrat, could be a republican, political campaigns know more about you than you might think. We're going to explain that.
NGUYEN: But first, it's your vote and your health. Dr. Sanjay Gupta looks at the impact your vote could have on the health care system. A "HOUSE CALL" election special, that is straight ahead.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.voxant.com
