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Who Is Gates?; Virginia Senate Race; Top Tips
Aired November 09, 2006 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. I'm Carol Lin. Heidi Collins is off today.
TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning, everyone. I'm Tony Harris. Spend a second hour in the NEWSROOM this morning and stay informed. Here's what's on the rundown.
Power lunch. President Bush breaking bread with the Democrat who wield the House gavel. Before that, the president live from the Rose Garden.
LIN: Also, Donald Rumsfeld's legacy. We're going to talk live with a pair of Pentagon vets. Their thoughts on the outgoing defense chief.
HARRIS: And counting on Virginia. This man says he'll hand the Senate to the Democrats when he claims victory today. Thursday, November 9th. You are in the NEWSROOM.
LIN: The new Washington, you might say. President Bush facing leadership changes on both sides of the Potomac, in Congress and at the Pentagon. The president makes a statement from the Rose Garden in the next hour and you are going to see it live in the NEWSROOM. This hour he meets with his cabinet. It will be the first time since the election that gave Democrats control of the House and quite possibly the Senate.
Also on the agenda, lunch today with House speaker to be Nancy Pelosi. The two engaged -- that was, by the way, Robert Gates, the next Defense Secretary, if he's confirmed by the Senate. Anyway, they exchanged very bitter verbal jabs during the campaign. Both promised to search for common ground. So we'll see what happens after that lunch today.
Now the search for a compromise with the Democrats follows the president's surprise Pentagon shakeup. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is out, something Democrats have long waited to see. The president's choice, once again to replace him, former CIA Director Robert Gates.
HARRIS: Rumsfeld's presumed successor, Robert Gates. Well, maybe not a household name for most Americans, but he's well-known in Washington where it matters most. Here's CNN Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr.
Barbara, good morning.
BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Tony.
Well, at this hour, actually, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is not in Washington. He is on his way to Kansas. He's expected to land shortly to keep a speaking engagement that had been planned for some time. We will, of course, be watching to see what he has to say.
As for Mr. Gates, the transition is already underway. Pentagon officials tell us that last night Mr. Gates placed a phone call to General Peter Pace, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, to say hello and get things moving. Military commanders now are beginning to prepare those briefings for Mr. Gates on key issues to prepare for his confirmation hearings.
When will those confirmation hearings take place? Well, the Senate has indicated the Senate Armed Services Committee indicating it hopes to hold them before the end of the year. That, of course, means Mr. Gates would be confirmed by the still Republican controlled Senate, but not entirely clear whether they will be able to accomplish it.
There is already going to be an early bellwether, though. On November 15th, next week, the Senate Armed Services Committee is expected to hold a major hearing about the situation in Iraq, to call in General John Abizaid, the head of the CIA and the head of the defense intelligence agency, to get their latest views on the situation. That may put the pressure on the confirmation hearings for Gates to offer some new ideas, some of these options that people are talking about, Tony.
So, what are the ideas on the table? We've talked to a number of people. They tell us there are several ideas that are being looked at. One would be take some of these troops off the very front line. Put them in more of a rapid reaction mode in the places where Iraq is at least more peaceful. Double the size of U.S. military training teams to get more Iraqis trained up more quickly. And begin to set some deadlines or time frames for these provinces to be turned over to Iraqi forces.
Those are the kinds of questions that Mr. Gates is very likely to face. It's the kind of work, Tony, that is going on in that Iraq study group being chaired by former Secretary of State James Baker. A group that Mr. Gates was a member of and still is, at least until he becomes secretary of defense.
HARRIS: Hey, Barbara, that's very interesting. How long might it take from meetings to new plans to locking down those plans to seeing something real, some real change on the ground in Iraq?
STARR: That is going to, by all accounts, be, I think, realistically slow and incremental. I don't think anybody believes that there's going to be some fundamental change on the ground because essentially one of the key issues Mr. Gates will face the same thing that Secretary Rumsfeld did, and the new Iraqi government, the sectarian violence in that country and especially the situation in Baghdad. Baghdad, of course, is really the face that Iraq shows the world. The sectarian violence there is very tough, very difficult. A lot of Iraqis losing their lives. And until Baghdad begins to look better, Iraq may not look better to people looking at it from the outside, Tony
HARRIS: That is an interesting way to put that. Barbara Starr for us at the Pentagon.
Barbara, thank you.
STARR: Sure.
LIN: Tony, just moments ago, the U.S. Senate was called back to order after taking a break and they're going to be a whole host of issues that may very well change over the next couple of years depending on which way the Senate goes. We're still waiting to hear the results of the Virginia Senate race. One of the senators that's not there right now in those chambers is Senator George Allen who is said to be sequestered in his Virginia home. There's a statewide canvassing of the ballots there. Such a tight race, but the Associated Press has already called it for his opponent. So let's go to CNN's Jeanne Meserve live in Arlington, Virginia, this morning.
Jeanne, when are we likely to hear from George Allen?
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's the big question. We had expected to hear from the Democrat, James Webb, early this afternoon. But a spokesperson for his campaign just came out of headquarters and told us that time is a little less certain because Mr. Webb wants to have a concession from Republican George Allen before he declares victory in this case. And as of now, the Webb campaign has not heard from the Allen campaign.
As you mentioned, a canvas of the vote is now underway. According to a state election official, about a third of those tallies have now reported back to the state on the results of that canvas. According to the campaigns, this canvas is going quite quickly and could, in fact, be concluded today.
As of now, the unofficial word is that it hasn't shown any significant anomalies, no big shift in voting patterns. The edge right now for Webb is about 7,000 votes over Allen. That's out of more than 2 million votes cast in this race.
The question, of course, will George Allen ask for a recount or will he accept this canvas and concede the race? We don't know the answer for certain, but all the indications are that he may not ask for a recount. A couple of reasons for that.
One, the results of this canvas, which appear to show no significant problems. Two, there have been some other recounts in the state of Virginia, around other races, not this one, and those have not resulted in any shift of the results. And, finally, there's the question of George Allen and his political future. A lot of pundits saying that if he wants to run for office again in the state of Virginia, he might be wise not to risk alienating voters and take this process and drag it out indefinitely.
So, those are all the indicators. Also, word from people close to Allen that he doesn't want to drag it out. But we're waiting to hear what the Allen campaign does before we really know the results of this race and before we know who's going to control the U.S. Senate
Back to you.
LIN: I heard he made a conference call to his staff up in Washington. What did he say and how did he sound?
MESERVE: I believe Andrea Koppel had a conversation with someone on the senior staff of Mr. Allen and why don't we hear from Andrea.
LIN: All right. Thanks very much, Jeanne Meserve. We'll be anxious -- a lot of jobs on the line up in Washington. I mean his staff is wondering whether he's going to be re-elected. So we'll see what happens.
HARRIS: We can talk to Andrea about that right now. Senate Democratic leaders may not wait for the fat lady to sing. They're expected to claim victory in Virginia and a majority in the Senate at some point today. Congressional correspondent Andrea Koppel joins us live now from Capitol Hill.
And, Andrea, let me ask you, is it expected -- do we know whether or not the Democratic leaders will wait until they hear something, this declaration of victory from Jim Webb, before they move forward?
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No, absolutely not, Tony.
They're not waiting. They are going to be, early this afternoon, the Senate minority leader, Harry Reid, Senator Chuck Schumer, who led the Senate congressional effort to win back the Senate, they're going to have a press conference in which they're going to make very clear that they believe that James Webb is the next senator from Virginia.
But just kind of getting back to Carol's question a few moments ago. CNN has learned that Senator Allen, although he is not conceding defeat, has begun to sort of pave the way and prepare his staff, both psychologically and emotionally, for the likelihood that he will no longer be the Virginia senator. I spoke with a senior Allen staffer who said that yesterday afternoon Allen had a conference call with his staff here in D.C. and around the state of Virginia, basically to tell them that he didn't concede, but he was clearly not emboldened to fight this. The senator said that he wants to make sure that every single vote is counted and said that he wasn't sure whether this is going to wrap up -- he was saying tomorrow, but obviously today, or whether they will finish the count next week.
What you have here, Tony, behind the scenes, are people who work with Senator Allen for years and years. This one senior staffer who was on the conference call just sounded absolutely devastated. In his words, he said it's a nightmare. He said that the staffers are shell- shocked. And they said that Allen didn't take any of their questions, but he said keep up their constituent services and that he would be in touch.
Tony.
HARRIS: Oh, man. That's tough. That just is tough. Congressional correspondent Andrea Koppel for us.
Andrea, thank you.
In Montana, victory claimed, but defeat not conceded. Ninety- nine percent of the vote counted and Democrat Jon Tester holding a lead of almost 3,000 votes over Senator Conrad Burns. Most news organizations have called the race for Tester, and he sounds like a lawmaker heading to Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JON TESTER, (D) MONTANA SENATOR-ELECT: Now is a time, really, though, to come together. It really is a time to put politics aside because we've got many, many issues that are facing this great state and this country, both in foreign policy and domestic policy. We've talked about them for the last 18 months. Now is a time to roll up our sleeves and get some things done. It is absolutely, critically important that we change the direction of this country and empower the middle class, empower working families and small businesses, family farms and ranches and really the people who have made this country so great.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: But wait just a minute, says the incumbent. Burns acknowledging Tester has the lead, but not conceding the race. Montana's Republican secretary of state is not giving his party colleague much hope. He says the margin of victory will probably be too wide for a recount.
LIN: Also a big player in this election, conservative Christians. Faith or doubt in the Republican Party, a post-election analysis right here in the NEWSROOM.
HARRIS: Change at the Pentagon. We will talk about it in the NEWSROOM. Two former Pentagon insiders weigh in on the Rumsfeld resignation.
LIN: And what do Iraqis think about the departure of Donald Rumsfeld? We're going to check in with Baghdad, right here in the NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: A couple things we want to tell you. First of all, let's tackle what's right there at the bottom of your screen right now. The president is meeting with his cabinet in the next couple of minutes, and then out of that we're expecting, at 11:35 a.m. this morning, that the president will go to the Rose Garden and issue a statement and perhaps take a couple of questions from reporters. It has been already a busy morning for the president. Let's show a photo from the White House this morning, breakfast with bicameral Republican leadership from the House and the Senate. Let's see. Let's start -- well, you can make out many of the people on your own. We've got Bill Frist there, Mitch McConnell, Vice President Cheney, Representative Roy Blunt from Missouri, John Boehner as well. And this was from a breakfast meeting this morning, 7:00 a.m., the president and the leaders of the House and Senate.
LIN: Eating fresh fruit, we could surmise from the plates.
HARRIS: Yes.
LIN: Also, we have some breaking news this morning about a drug recall. If you are planning on taking any acetaminophen today, think again. Take a look at the label, call your drugstore or supermarket. There has been a drug recall on 11 million bottles of the pain reliever. It's a company called Parago makes it and it makes it for generic brands for stores, for example, like Wal-Mart might carry it or CVS, Walgreens, Costco. Apparently there were like metal bills found inside the acetaminophen. This was found in a sort of standard quality control test. So 11 million bottles being recalled back because of metal bits. It's the 500 milligram tablets. So double- check that. You may have to return that bottle to the store.
HARRIS: Carol, are you ready for this? It is a sign of the season. Right here we go. This is -- let's take you, first of all, let's identify where we are. This is Ridgefield, Connecticut, and you're watching now as the Christmas tree that will grace Rockefeller Center in New York City is eventually going to be loaded onto a huge, 115-foot long trailer and hauled to Manhattan in New York. Look at this tree. I should have some information here. The tree is 88 feet, 45 feet in diameter.
LIN: Wow.
HARRIS: The tree cut this morning is at the home of Rob and Debra Kinard (ph). This is Peaceable Hill. How about that? How about that? Peaceable Hill Road in Ridgefield.
LIN: Not so peaceable for the tree, though.
HARRIS: Not so peaceable for the tree.
LIN: But they send this helicopter out. That's how they find it. They canvas -- they go in a helicopter and they look for the biggest, best tree.
HARRIS: Yes.
LIN: Right. They go up to the homeowners, knock on the door and they pay for the tree, I think.
HARRIS: And they pay for the tree.
LIN: They pay for the tree.
HARRIS: And the homeowners consider it . . .
LIN: An honor.
HARRIS: Generally speaking, quite an honor.
LIN: All right.
HARRIS: No one objects.
LIN: Yes. Well, how would you like to live to be 100? You get to -- you get to be 100, you grow to 88 feet and somebody just comes around, flies around your house, chops you down, takes you to New York.
HARRIS: OK. I was happy, now I'm not pleased at all. But there you have it. It's on its way to New York City, Manhattan.
LIN: (INAUDIBLE) those folks in Peaceable Hill.
HARRIS: There you go.
LIN: In the meantime, if you're planning on buying a house, good time. If you're planning on selling, maybe not so good. Gerri Willis here with "Top Tips." She's going to join us after the break.
Gerri, any hope in sight for sellers?
GERRI WILLIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I'm telling you, if you're buying, you're in good shape. The tables have turned in the housing market. We'll tell you how to stay ahead whether you're buying, selling or just sitting tight. That's next on NEWSROOM.
HARRIS: And still ahead, no deer in the headlights here. A feisty . . .
LIN: Oh, my goodness.
HARRIS: A feisty buck.
LIN: Inside the store.
HARRIS: Yes. Finding its Target.
LIN: Ha-ha.
HARRIS: We'll explain in the NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: Carol, what do you way, another check of the big board. The New York Stock Exchange, taking you to New York City right now. The Dow OK inside the first hour of the trading day. Not looking so good right now. But there is a lot of work to be done in the business day. The Nasdaq down -- plus five. Up five. The Dow, as you see, down, oh, 30, 31 points in early trading. We'll continue to follow it throughout the day for you.
LIN: All right. The seasons have changed and so has the housing market. Demand for homes has gone from red hot to decidedly chilly in some places. But there are things that you can do whether you're a buyer or a seller. Here's CNN's personal finance editor Gerri Willis. She joins us now from New York.
WILLIS: Hey, Carol.
LIN: So, Gerri, you were just saying -- good morning.
WILLIS: Good to see you.
LIN: Good to see you, too.
You were just saying that it's a good time, obviously, for buyers, right? But what are the kinds of things that they should be looking for, asking for, take advantage of the moment?
WILLIS: Well, I'm telling you, you can be picky now as a buyer. Who knew? I mean it's totally changed, totally turned over. As a buyer, now is the time to negotiate hard on price. And you can get other goodies, too. Like you can ask the buyer to make simple repairs that you wouldn't have dared to ask for a year ago.
And you no longer should feel pressured to waive your right to have property inspected. In some cases, you may even be able to get the seller to pay part or all of your closing costs. And, Carol, you probably heard some of those stories out there where people are getting free vacations, you know.
LIN: Does that work?
WILLIS: The car. Well, it can, you know. It all depends if you're the seller. That's where you have the problem.
LIN: Right. And if you're a seller, you're saying keeping it real. I mean probably a lot of people in big markets have been used to those double-digit price increases.
WILLIS: You bet. Well, yes, exactly. That's the hard part right now because the price has gone up so much in so many markets you're really going to have to be realistic about your selling price and know what's going on right now in your market. Get a sense of what other sellers are selling your home for so you can be competitive. The easiest way to do that is look at price per square foot, then you can make apples to apple comparisons.
And make sure you make as many repairs. Your house has to look great when you put it on the market. And you can throw in some extra incentives, too, but don't start with the incentives because the more you offer, the more you have to offer.
LIN: Yes and then you start looking a little desperate. A realtor friend told me that people come into your house looking for reasons not to buy, right? Any reason at all, right? An old light fixture.
WILLIS: It's that kind of market now.
LIN: Yes, exactly. Anything at all that they don't have to buy that house, then they won't. Kind of an interesting psychology.
WILLIS: It really makes sense to make it look spiffy.
LIN: Make it look spiffy. All right. So you're also saying, don't overinvest. You're talking about sellers who are trying to fix up their houses for sale?
WILLIS: Well, I'm actually talking about people, if you own a home now, you want to make sure you think seriously about what kind of investments you're going to make because down the line you will sell that house ultimately, right? And the last thing you want to do is spend a fortune in home renovations. Look, buyers don't want to spend more money on a property where neighboring property values are less. You don't want to be the most expensive house on the block. Instead, do the little things, like putting a fresh coat of paint on the walls or trim back the hedges. You have more flexibility if you're staying in that house for a long time because ultimately prices will stop turning south and they'll start moving higher.
LIN: You know, but what if you're a seller and a buyer? Like you're looking to buy, it's a great time to buy. Lenders are saying, well, you know, you can tap into the equity in your existing house and then pay it off when you sell.
WILLIS: It's not as easy as it used to be. Absolutely not. You know, interest rates have gone up pretty dramatically and a recent survey, in fact, found that less than half of homeowners wouldn't consider tapping their home for money. And that's smart if you're worried about the market. Look, if you borrow equity from your home and there is a price decline, you're putting yourself deeper into debt, so you definitely want to pay attention to that.
LIN: Yes. All right. Your house is not an ATM.
WILLIS: No.
LIN: OK.
WILLIS: Almost, but not quite.
LIN: Not quite. Yes. Use the ATM as the ATM.
So what are you going to be talking about on "House Calls"? Not "House Calls," "Open House."
HARRIS: The big "Open House" show.
WILLIS: Hey, I get to do "House Calls" too, yeah.
LIN: Yes.
WILLIS: "Open House."
LIN: You can get medical news and sell your house.
WILLIS: Saturday morning, 9:30, right here on CNN. And if you cannot get up early, you can always watch it on Headline News at 5:30 p.m. Saturday and Sunday. We will be talking about the stories you might not have heard about the election, pocket book issues like property taxes, eminent domain. It was on the ballot across the country. We're going to cover it in detail. We've got experts to tell you who it means for your house.
LIN: Cool. We'll be up early. You know those sellers, they're up early because they couldn't sleep the night before.
HARRIS: That's right.
LIN: They're worried.
All right.
WILLIS: Thanks so much.
LIN: Thanks, Gerri.
HARRIS: Change at the Pentagon. We will talk about it in the NEWSROOM. Two former Pentagon insiders weigh in on the Rumsfeld resignation.
And what do Iraqis think about the departure of Donald Rumsfeld? We check in with Baghdad and our very own Aneesh Raman in the NEWSROOM.
LIN: And the dawn of a new day, the approach of a new mission. The space shuttle Discovery inches toward the launch pad. See it right here in the NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR, CNN NEWSROOM: Out with the old, lunch with the new. President Bush meets over lunch today with House Speaker-to-be Nancy Pelosi. The meeting follows the surprise announcement that Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is out.
The president also makes a statement next hour from the Rose Garden. Let's go straight to the White House now and White House Correspondent Elaine Quijano.
Elaine, good morning.
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Tony.
First up for the president today, breakfast with the outgoing GOP leadership. It happened earlier today, and two days after Republican received what the president, himself, called a "cumulative thumping" at the polls. This is a chance for the president and the outgoing leaders to take a look back at the campaign, but White House Press Secretary Tony Snow saying, just a few minutes ago, in the off-camera briefing, it was not a time for recriminations, rather to look at lessons learned.
Also an opportunity to take a look at what's ahead, what can be accomplished in the leaders' remaining time left before the Democrats take control. A couple of nominations perhaps, a couple of confirmation hearings. They like to see, by the end of the year. That, of course, for the United States Ambassador to the U.N. John Bolton, as well as the nominee announced yesterday to replace Secretary Rumsfeld, the secretary of Defense, Bob Gates.
Now, later today, for lunch, as you know, President Bush will be reaching across the aisle and he will be having lunch with Democratic leaders in the House, including the incoming House Speaker Nancy Pelosi.
There were, of course, some very harsh words exchanged between the president and Nancy Pelosi, on the campaign trail. But the president and his top aides are very anxious to let people know they want to put that all behind them, let political bygones be political bygones.
At this hour, the president is sitting down to meet with his Cabinet. Afterwards we do expect the president to make a statement in the Rose Garden. We understand that the topics discussed with the Cabinet have to do with foreign affairs, trade and the economy and not to expect any kind of surprises, according to Tony Snow, or announcements as we heard yesterday.
Also a couple of other notes that we heard from Tony Snow today, a little bit more on the resignation of Secretary Rumsfeld. Tony Snow says that there were no "epiphany moments", quote-unquote, when in fact the decision was made. There had been discussions ongoing all along, very quietly, and that Nancy Pelosi was actually told about this decision about 30 minutes before yesterday's news conference.
As far as the future and dealing with Democrats in a bipartisan way, Tony Snow saying the president remains open to compromise, but not compromising on his principles.
Also that race in Virginia for the United States Senate, whether or not the White House was weighing in with Senator Allen's campaign about a recount, Tony Snow saying that is a decision that Senator Allen must make himself -- Tony.
HARRIS: And once again that Rose Garden statement this morning at 11:35 a.m. And we will bring it to you live. Elaine Quijano at the White House.
Elaine, thank you.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR, CNN NEWSROOM: Obviously, the president reacting to changes at the Pentagon. Donald Rumsfeld, on the way out. Robert Gates tapped to come in. Two former Pentagon insiders join us now to talk about what's ahead. Lawrence Korb is a senior fellow at the Center for American Progress and Frank Gaffney, is the president of the Center for Security Policy. They both served in the Defense Department. Both were assistant secretaries of Defense.
Welcome to both of you.
FRANK GAFFNEY, PRES., CENTER FOR SECURITY POLICY: Nice to be with you.
LARRY KORB, CENTER FOR AMERICAN PROGRESS: Good morning.
LIN: Larry, were you surprised at the announcement?
KORB: I was surprised at the timing because the president, last week, told us he wasn't going to do it. I think it was the right thing to do, but I think it sort of sends the wrong signal to the troops when a week ago you said he's going to stay, and then two days later you announce you have a successor. And you have already been talking to the person who gets to take the job.
LIN: Frank, do you think this was a bad move on the part of the administration?
GAFFNEY: I do in a sense. I think it was inevitable politically, but I think the substance is very troubling because I believe what is being signaled here, in the person of Bob Gates is a -- eminently qualified man -- but whose judgment is very different from that of, I think, not only Don Rumsfeld, but the president to this point, on the key question of our time. Which is will we be negotiating with enemies like the regime in Iran, in the hopes that they will somehow help us solve the problem they're creating, in no small measure, in Iraq. I think that will be a mistake, potentially, very strategic and long handing dimensions.
LIN: Two years left in this administration, a new secretary of Defense. Given what we know already, let's say on the ground in Iraq, is this man really going to make that much of a difference, Larry.
KORB: Think it is going to make a big difference because remember that he was working for the first President Bush, he was opposed to going into Baghdad, predicting exactly what would happen. Number two, he's a member of the Baker-Hamilton Iraq study group, which is going to recommend some changes in the policy.
And I think, number three, since he turned down the job of the director of national intelligence a year ago, I have no doubt that he got assurances from President Bush before he took the job that we could make the necessary changes, and the changes that are needed in Iraq.
LIN: And what do you think that's going to be?
KORB: Well, I think what you're going to see, the Baker-Hamilton group is going to recommend what we call a phased withdrawal, that you will begin to take some of the troops out. You will change the mission from actively going out after the insurgents to supporting the Iraqi troops and training the Iraqi troops.
And that by the end of the president's -- President Bush's administration you will be somewhere between 35,000 and 50,000 troops, which will be enough to prevent the situation from degenerating into chaos, but will relieve the stress on our armed forces, as well as give us military options to deal with the situations in Afghanistan, Iraq and North Korea.
LIN: Of course, that scenario could change depending on the level of violence and the status of the insurgency. So, Frank, do you agree that Robert Gates is going to make a significant, tangible difference in a place like Iraq?
GAFFNEY: Well, I hope Larry is right and that it will all work out along the lines that he's just described, and make a desirable change. I think the change is in the offing. I definitely believe that's what Bob Gates has in mind.
Larry is right about the Baker agenda here, being what he will be pushing forward. I'm afraid that you can get change, and yet the change can be for the worse. I don't, for example, think that 30,000 to 50,000 troops are going to be able to manage and keep the place going from where it is now into chaos, if is 130,000 troops, we're being told, aren't able to do that.
LIN: What if there was a partitioning, though, of the country?
GAFFNEY: Look, there are different scenarios here for effecting our surrender from Iraq and our withdrawal and retreat from it. One of them is partition, one is turning it over to the Syrians and the Iranians, another is just sort of throwing up our hands and strategically redeploying, as Larry and others have suggested.
I'm afraid all of those are going to leave Iraq a very serious mess, a festering sore, and create a strategic problem for us not only in the region but as our enemies are emboldened, and being made more aggressive, problems for us here at home as well.
LIN: All right. But you use the word -- it's not missed that you use the word "surrender."
GAFFNEY: It's not missed.
LIN: You take a guy like Robert Gates, this is how he is being described by several analysts, the he is pragmatic, realistic, but no lightning rod. This is not a man who wants to shake things up. Most have said that he is the antithesis of a Donald Rumsfeld. You are predicting almost like an apocalyptic scenario, where -- a Vietnam scenario -- where the United States would have to unilaterally withdraw in defeat? Do you really think it will go that far?
GAFFNEY: Look, I think there's going to be political cover. That's what the Baker-Hamilton study group is about, is providing political cover. The guys who are doing as much to disrupt things in Iraq as anybody, the Iranians and Syrians, and you will make them partners in solving the problem in Iraq, as part of our phased withdrawal.
I suggest to you that we may call it something else, but I think that will be tantamount to surrender and ultimately have the results of surrender, which is, again, an emboldened enemy and more danger for us here at home as well.
LIN: Larry, is Robert Gates the man who buckles to the word "surrender"? Do you see it that way?
KORB: Well, no. I don't see it that way. I think basically unless we start a phased withdrawal the Iraqis will never make the political compromises necessary to create an Iraq that's worth fighting and dying for. Until you do that it doesn't matter how long we stay and the big lever we have is the troops, because right now they're not doing what they need to do.
Look, since they had their election, we have lost 10 battalions worth of soldiers and Marines, killed or wounded, while they have not done a darn thing they promised in terms of modifying the constitution, disbanding the militias. Until they do that, our military commanders will tell you, nothing will change. And that's what we need to do. That's the lever we need to push to get them to do that.
LIN: And nobody feels it more than the families, the military families making that sacrifice. Lawrence Korb, thank you very much, Frank Gaffney, a pleasure to have you.
GAFFNEY: Thank you, nice to be with you.
HARRIS: In Virginia, it's not quite in the bag, but it's close for Jim Webb and the Democratic Party. He's leading Senator George Allen, the Republican incumbent, by about 7,200 votes. A canvas of votes showing no significant changes in the count. The Associated Press is calling the race for Webb.
The margin is narrow enough to allow Allen a recount, but a source close to Allen says the senator has no intention of dragging out the election if the votes stand. That victory would give democrats a one-seat majority in the Senate.
LIN: Inside the tense combat support hospital in Baghdad. The daily struggle to keep those wounded in battle alive. CNN's Baghdad Correspondent Cal Perry, right here in the house, right here in the NEWSROOM right after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: In less than an hour we will hear from the president of the United States speaking from the Rose Garden, after he meets with his Cabinet, and right before he meets with the new speaker-elect of the House of Representatives.
Stay tuned. CNN is going to be carrying President Bush's statement live. He's got a lot to say. It's been a busy day at the White House. HARRIS: Boy, it has.
The Iraq war takes its toll, more than 21,000 American troops wounded. The injured arrive daily at the 10th Combat Support Hospital in Baghdad. Right now, we are taking you inside that hospital, and I must warn you, what you are about to see will be disturbing to some viewers.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who do you want?
LT. COL. ROBERT MAZUR, M.D., U.S. ARMY: I would say for everybody, as much as we hate to admit it, if it's an American soldier in there as opposed to anybody else, our stress level goes up.
What's your first name?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Justin.
MAZUR: Justin
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thomas.
MAZUR: Thomas.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Watson.
MAZUR: Watson, W-A-T-S-O-N.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know, I know. We just got some oxygen on you, OK?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What happened to you, man?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: IED.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're all right, OK?
MAZUR: Go ahead and give him, take him out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SCREAMNG)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Move back. (UNINTELLIGIBLE). right now?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right arm, left arm (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (MOANING)
(CROSS TALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're going to go to sleep, OK?
MAZUR: Stress is a good thing, a lot of pro athletes say they want to feel that stress, your adrenaline goes better, you oxygenate better, you perform better. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Have you got this? OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everybody ready? Are you with us?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Which way are we rolling? Towards me?
MAZUR: One, two, three, roll.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One, two, three, roll.
MAJ. MARTY LUCENTI, M.D., U.S. ARMY: We have a subdural hematoma, which means he has bleeding around the brain. It was on the right side. What that does is squishes the brain, in severe cases it can push your brain into your brain stem, kind of down into your spinal cord. That will kill you.
So what we did was give him stuff to minimize the bleeding and keep the pressure down, and then in the interim he basically gets helicoptered to Bellad (ph), where they have the neurosurgeons. So, the neurosurgeon will take him urgently to the O.R. and drill a hole right in his skull to let that hematoma out.
Tough kid. Very good kid to take care of. Gives me goose bumps when I see how strong those guys are.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Michelle? Yeah, I'm here. I'm OK. I'm fine. We got hit. I'm a little dinged up, but I'm OK. I'm in the hospital. I'll try to call again as soon as I'm a little less drugged up. But I'm fine, man. I'm fine.
Honey? Can you hear me? Honey? Can you hear me? I can barely hear you. It might be because I had a loud explosion in my ear.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: Oh, man. How tough is that to see? That segment is part of a "CNN Presents" special, that airs this weekend, and here in Atlanta to talk about it, Cal Perry, our Baghdad correspondent.
Great to see you.
CAL PERRY, CNN BAGHDAD CORRESPONDENT, CNN NEWSROOM: It's good to see you. How are you?
HARRIS: Outstanding. Could you believe what you were watching?
PERRY: No, and actually watching it again, I can't believe I was there to film some of it. Seeing what these wounds are up close, I think a lot of times we get ourselves a sanitary view of the war.
Even those of us are that are there not cover it, we go on embeds, or we go out with U.S. Troops and we will see them get wounded, see them get loaded onto a helicopter and that's where the story ends for us. Picking it up on the other end, seeing what these war wounds really do. Seeing the kids they have to treat, they have to treat their fellow soldiers is certainly something I will never forget.
HARRIS: Lieutenant Colonel Mazur, he is one of the people featured prominently in your story. There was a moment there at the beginning when he is getting the news that there are more incoming. And here's the moment right here.
You saw this a lot, but tell us what that moment there encompasses. He looks away. He curses a bit, it sounds like -- it seems to me -- as if he's saying in that moment, more of our kids are hurt. Another long day for us all.
PERRY: I think that's a big part of it. I think in that moment he's also very, very anxious. The doctors, the medics, the nurses would get incredibly anxious hearing these helicopter radio calls, that we've got IED wounded. We have wounded coming in. A lot of times these radio calls themselves are very graphic, and they can hear the person struggling on the other end of that call, and all they want to do is get their hands on that person and start treating them.
We heard time and time again from these doctors not knowing is the worst thing, not knowing what is coming in is the worst. Once we can see the problem, once we can get our hands on the problem, start working the problem, we feel a lot better.
HARRIS: Cal, these IEDs over the three years of -- three years plus, of this war have become more deadly, more powerful, they're shaped now. Talk to us about sort of the evolution of this IED and the carnage that it is just sort of wreaking on the troops over there trying to fight this war.
PERRY: This is the chosen weapon for insurgents and sort of their guerrilla tactics against U.S. forces. You can plant it, be nowhere near it when it goes off. As you said, they have made incredible advancements. The U.S. military has tried to make medical advancements along with these IEDs. But as you said, they are now shaped, they do far more damage, they can cut through Bradley armored vehicles, Hummer armored vehicles. And they leave people with truly, truly horrifying wounds.
One of the things I love about the "CNN Presents" is we show the incredible work that these doctors are doing. One of the things we don't talk about is that this work then brings many more wounded to the U.S., instead of having a higher death toll, we will have a far higher toll of those that have been wounded.
The wounds that these IEDs leave these young soldiers with are truly devastating wounds. They are wounds that are not going to allow the person to live life as they did before.
HARRIS: To the control room, Tom, give me a half second here, I need to ask this one last question of our Baghdad bureau chief.
Cal, you heard the debate just a moment ago, talking about responding to the news that Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is resigning. Let me ask you this, when you hear this give and take about what comes next in Iraq, as someone who has been there, spent so much time there. Having been given a taste of freedom, three elections, constitution now, what is the view from Baghdad, as to the choice the Iraqi people will ultimately make for their own futures. Will they revert to some sort of terrorist state or will, having been given a taste of freedom, will they ultimately choose freedom?
PERRY: I think they hope that they will actually have that choice. I think they have seen a taste of freedom, but along with the three elections have come more violence, more sectarian divide, more neighborhoods being divided against neighborhoods, more people moving across the street to be with their Shia relatives, instead of they are Sunni neighbors.
I think Iraqis hope they will have that choice. The division has not already gotten too deep, that the U.S. can maybe pull this thing out from the depths of what would otherwise be civil conflict.
I think there is a very real concern on the ground, among some politicians if the U.S. does pull back to the sort of bases, to the borders, this could happen. For the Iraqis they would love to have that choice.
HARRIS: That's an interesting assessment. Cal Perry, great to see you. When do you head back to Baghdad?
PERRY: Early December.
HARRIS: All right. Be safe.
PERRY: Thank you.
HARRIS: Just another reminder, join CNN for an extraordinary hour, inside the 10th Combat Support Hospital in Baghdad, "CNN Presents: Combat Hospital" this weekend 8:00 p.m. Eastern.
LIN: And the man who oversees the war in Iraq, he is now out of a job, a look at the president's choice to replace him. Right here in the NEWSROOM.
SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN FINANCIAL CORRESPONDENT, CNN NEWSROOM: I'm Susan Lisovicz on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange.
The voters spoke Tuesday. Investors spoke Wednesday. I will have Wall Street's reaction to the Democratic landscape next on CNN NEWSROOM. You're watching CNN, the most trusted name in news.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: Wall Street defied expectations of a sell-off yesterday. Susan Lisovicz on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange to tell us why and what the market is doing today.
Hey, Susan.
LISOVICZ: Hey, Carol. Good to see you.
You know, we have told you so many times that Wall Street hates uncertainty. We had so much of it yesterday, but the market rallied. Why is that? Well, first of all, Robert Gates is somebody who is quite familiar in Washington. He's worked with, among others, President Reagan and the first President Bush. The market turned higher after Donald Rumsfeld's resignation yesterday, and President Bush's assurances that he would work with the new Congress.
Where the drama actually lay was in specific sectors that might benefit, or hurt, with the new Democratic Congress. For instance, we saw healthcare and big pharma stocks sell off, stocks like Merck, Pfizer, Eli Lilly, J&J, all down because they fear what the Democrats say they will do. They'll negotiate pricing power for the government with prescription drugs with federal health plans.
On the other hand, we saw alternative energy and biotech stocks rally. VeraSun Energy, for instance, which produces ethanol, its shared soared 9 percent yesterday. StemCells, Cytori Therapeutics, two different biotech firms, each were up sharply on the day, 10 percent, 13 percent, respectively. So we saw some big movement within certain sectors that might benefit from a Democratic Congress -- Carol.
LIN: There's always possibility for gridlock, and the last two years of the Bush administration, the market doesn't like that, does it?
LISOVICZ: Well, you know, it's a very broad statement to say that -- corporate America does not like a lot of regulation, and if you have gridlock you won't have it. Nothing will get done. The president can veto legislation, he doesn't like.
But on the other hand, we have big looming issues, whether it's healthcare crisis, the budget deficit, we have Iraq. And something has to get done. And I think that even big figureheads on Wall Street, like Stephen Roach, the chief economist at Morgan Stanley, say now is not the time for gridlock. We really do have to tackle these issues, and ultimately, the financial markets, among others, might hurt if something doesn't get done, Carol.
LIN: All right. Susan, thank you.
LISOVICZ: You are welcome.
HARRIS: Still to come, out with the old, lunch with the new, a day after a Pentagon shakeup, President Bush sits down with the new speaker to be, and addresses the nation. That's ahead, next hour in the NEWSROOM.
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