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Storms, Tornadoes Batter South; New Democratic House Leaders Chosen; More Troops Headed to Western Iraq; Information Sketchy about Iraqi Hostages

Aired November 16, 2006 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Kyra Phillips at the CNN World Headquarters in Atlanta.
DON LEMON, CO-HOST: And I'm Don Lemon.

Homes obliterated, loved ones missing. A devastated community joins together after a deadly storm.

PHILLIPS: The lady of the House, Nancy Pelosi, and her new No. 2. Who is Congressman Steny Hoyer? And why did Pelosi endorse someone else?

LEMON: Is O.J. Simpson confessing to murder? His publisher says yes. His new book, "If I Did It", details the killings, but hypothetically. The victims' families are outraged. You're live today in the CNN NEWSROOM.

PHILLIPS: A battered south. Debris can be seen for miles. Uprooted trees, splintered power lines, smashed cars and flattened homes. It's this way from Louisiana to North Carolina actually. Each state hammered by powerful storms.

As the sky clears, people are starting to pick up and clean up. Neighbors helping neighbors in at least two states. The violent storms were deadly. One person was killed in Louisiana, at least five in North Carolina.

It's where we start today. A tiny town just outside Wilmington. The community of Riegelwood, ripped apart just after dawn by a tornado. One rescuer describes the scene as total devastation.

Ilin Chen of News 14 Carolina was one of the first reporters on the scene. Tell us what's going on.

Ilin, tells us what's going on?

ILIN CHEN, NEWS 14 CAROLINA CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, I'm here at a local elementary school right now, where family and friends have gathered to hear the latest on what's been happening with their loved ones.

If you follow me here, this elementary school is just about a half a mile from where the tornado touched down in the mobile home community. Now folks who had been down at that scene earlier have said that it was a scene of complete devastation. What they saw was mobile homes being ripped from the foundation, and they saw rescue workers pulling bodies from out of the woods.

Now, the official count right now, in terms of fatalities, is nine people dead. That's the latest word we've heard. But the sheriff is about to update the media sometime soon. He's going to do that at a command post, later on, further away from here.

Now, what's happening here at the shelter is we've got folks here waiting to hear words. Some of the families have heard that their family members have been transported to hospital, so they've gone there, as well. There were a lot more folks here earlier today.

And as far as what we're going to hear from the officials, it's going to be later on at the community center, at the command post, down the line.

Reporting in Riegelwood, this is Ilin Chen for CNN.

PHILLIPS: All right, Ilin. Thanks so much.

LEMON: Amazing stories of survival from Alabama's capital city where fierce winds turned a combination day care center and skating rink into a crumpled wreck. Inside at least at the time, 31 preschoolers and four adults.

Our David Mattingly has been on the scene all night and all day. He join us now to give us the very latest -- David.

DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Don, the National Weather Service just a short time ago made a determination and decided that it was actually a tornado that hit and destroyed this building that you see behind me, with winds exceeding, they believe, 100 -- or approaching 150 miles per hour.

You can take a look at the devastation. I'm going to get out of the way here so you can look at it. And everybody sees this for the first time. They cannot believe that anyone in there was able to come out alive.

And yet 31 preschool children were inside at a day care center, when this tornado hit. And because of the quick thinking and the training of the staff, they were able to take all of those children to a safe spot in the building, where they were able to ride out the storm and come out only with some minor injuries. Not a single child emerged from there with any single -- with any serious injury.

A lot of parents today very relieved and very thankful that the staff was doing what they needed to do. The governor himself, Bob Riley, here in Alabama, says it pays to be prepared.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. BOB RILEY, ALABAMA: If we spend our time preparing for these type of disasters, you can save lives. If they had not had a plan yesterday in the Fun Zone, if Liberty Duke and her staff had not implemented that plan, we could be facing a tremendous disaster, worse than what we have here today. (END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: And, as you can see, what the terrible damage behind me, that that was one disaster that was clearly narrowly averted. This building made of cement block and steel beams was absolutely flattened when a tornado came through here yesterday morning -- Don.

LEMON: David, emergency workers, it appears, in that area are prepared. What about the folks inside of that day care? It sounds like they had done drills before. Had they practiced this?

MATTINGLY: That's what the governor was talking about and I was talking about earlier is that they have practiced about this. Whenever they have severe weather, they always have a plan in place. They take children to a particular area of the building that's reinforced, above and below, so that they just ride the storm out there.

They've never, ever had an opportunity to put this into motion and actually have a tornado come this close and actually hit the building. But here in the Deep South, where severe weather is always something they have to be prepared for, they were doing drills and making sure they knew exactly what to do when this storm came up this time.

LEMON: David, and it sounds like their practice paid off. Thank you very much, reporting from Montgomery, Alabama.

PHILLIPS: Severe weather isn't over yet. Our Reynolds Wolf keeping a close eye on it from the CNN Weather Center -- Reynolds.

(WEATHER REPORT)

PHILLIPS: All right, Reynolds, thanks so much.

When the weather becomes the news, you can become a CNN correspondent. If you see severe weather happening, send us an I- Report. Just go to CNN.com, click on "I-Report". Or type in "ireport@CNN.com" on your cell phone and you can share your photos or your video with us.

LEMON: Bitter battles are nothing new on Capitol Hill, but they usually don't erupt among senior members of the same party. Now, within days of a major party triumph, House Democrats have been basking in the glow of last week's elections. And Nancy Pelosi was a shoo-in today as the caucus chose the speaker for the 110th Congress.

But some of that glow surely faded in the race for incoming majority leader.

Our congressional correspondent Dana Bash has more from Capitol Hill -- Dana.

DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Don, Democrats certainly did make history today, electing the first female speaker. But as you just said, it was certainly not without a pretty big internal mess. And that is over the idea that there was a fight for the No. 2 spot.

Not only that, there are questions about whether even before Nancy Pelosi takes the gavel. And that will be in January. She made a major strategic mistake. And that is, she supported the man who lost for the No. 2 spot, for majority leader.

She supported John Murtha, somebody who is a close friend, somebody who made headlines by becoming one of the first members of Congress to say it's time to get out of Iraq. But the person who was in line to be the No. 2, Steny Hoyer, beat John Murtha handily. He won by 149-86.

So when the Democratic leaders came out, you see right there the picture, they tried to show and talk about a new sense of unity, togetherness, talked about moving forward. That's the message Nancy Pelosi tried to give today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), SPEAKER-ELECT OF THE HOUSE: As I said, Steny came out a big winner today. It was a stunning victory for him. We've had our debates. We've had our disagreements in that room. And now that is over.

As I said to my colleague, let the -- as we say in church, let there be peace on earth and let it begin with us. Let the healing...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: Now you hear Nancy -- you heard Nancy Pelosi saying that the debate and division is over. But in talking to Democrats, many of them coming out of this secret ballot, this couple of hours of voting here, it is clear, it's going to take a little bit of time.

Because there are some hard feelings about the fact that Nancy Pelosi did something that many times a leader doesn't do, which is get publicly involved in a fight among her leadership.

Not only that, but some Democrats were a little bit upset about the fact that they felt perhaps there were some strong-arm tactics or perhaps some -- some old-school tactics in trying to get some of the caucus on the side of John Murtha. We've heard about -- talk of promising some committee assignments, for example, in order to get the support of John Murtha.

But in the end this is not just a popularity contest, but it is a question of loyalty. And Steny Hoyer, the person who will be majority leader, spent months and months, even longer than that, trying to campaign for Democratic candidates, help them out, raise money for them. And in the end, he -- that is a big part of the reason why he got support of much of his caucus -- certainly a good majority.

Now Nancy Pelosi was asked whether or not she has regrets about this, because of the fact that 60 percent of her caucus voted against her. She said "I never have any regret." LEMON: And Dana, drama in politics usually go hand in hand. No surprise. We're hearing about drama on the Republican side. What's that all about?

BASH: Well, you know, we now have the Democrats who have elected their leadership in the House. Tomorrow, it's the Republicans' turn. And there's going to be no shortage of drama there.

A little bit different, because what we have there, of course, is Republicans trying to figure out how they're going to survive in the best kind of people they can have take them forward in the minority. It's going to be a very different kind of thing for them.

And so what you have is the person in John Boehner, who has been the Republican leader. He is running for minority leader. But you also have rank and file Republican, or an insurgent if you will, candidate, in Mike Pence, who is a conservative and somebody who is running very aggressively on the idea that the Republican leadership -- and John Boehner, he says is part of that -- simply lost its way.

Involved in a charge of a government that grew too big, a deficit that grew too big, and that it's time for a change in the Republican leadership. We have that on down the ranks of the Republican leadership. The race is tomorrow so that's also going to be an interesting fight to watch, Don.

LEMON: All right. Dana Bash on Capitol Hill, thank you so much for that.

PHILLIPS: Well, he's been testing the political waters. And today, John McCain comes closer to jumping in. We're on that story straight ahead from the NEWSROOM.

LEMON: Dozens of Iraqis still missing after a brazen raid Tuesday on a Baghdad government compound. Ahead in the NEWSROOM, word that some of those kidnapped were also tortured. A live report from Baghdad is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: More Marines are moving into Iraq. They'll join the fight in Anbar province, scene of many military casualties. Joining us now, CNN Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr.

Hi, Barbara.

BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello to you, Don.

Well, 2000 U.S. Marines now are headed towards al Anbar province in western Iraq to deal with the violence there. That is one of the most violent areas of the country.

General John Abizaid, head of the U.S. Central Command, revealed some initial details about this yesterday in a question/answer session before the Senate Armed Services Committee. He was talking to Senator Bill Nelson of Florida. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEN. JOHN ABIZAID, COMMANDER, U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND: I would also tell you, Senator Nelson, just to make sure that we're completely communicating here, I did release the Marine expeditionary unit that is under my control to the Marines in al Anbar province -- and it's already started its deployment up in the area -- to help address some of General Zelmer's (ph) concern with General Casey's concurrence, of course.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: So what General Abizaid is talking about there very bluntly, is 2,000 additional Marines going to al Anbar province. They are from the 15th Marine Expeditionary Unit out of Camp Pendleton, California. They will join some 20,000 Marines already on the ground there.

Anbar remains an area of quite a number of attacks. A lot of troops have been killed there, obviously, over the years. What we have been learning is there's still ongoing problems there, not just with insurgent attacks against U.S. troops, but a lot of suspicion about the Iraqi security forces really doing the people's business up there. Police forces not being paid, tribal chiefs in the region still fermenting some of the attacks, Don.

So the hope is that sending these additional Marines may begin to get a handle on the situation.

But General Abizaid also making it very clear that the top U.S. military priority remains Baghdad, even as he is sending these additional troops to western Iraq -- Don.

LEMON: CNN Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr, thank you.

PHILLIPS: Well, two days later, confusion still surrounds the brazen abduction of dozens of people from a government research institute in Baghdad. For the latest, we turn to Arwa Damon.

Arwa, the numbers, are we getting today? What are they like? And compare it to the numbers of freed and the number still held.

ARWA DAMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, there is still a lot of confusion that surrounds those numbers. Specifically, how many were kidnapped and how many have been released.

Just to give you an example, the Ministry of Higher Education is still reporting that about 140, 150 individuals were kidnapped. They are estimating that about half of those have been freed.

The Iraqi minister of interior puts those kidnapped at about 65 to 70. They're saying about 80 percent of those have been freed.

So again, a lot of confusion surrounding those types of details. Again, what we do know is that this mass abduction did take place. A little bit of new information coming, though. As people are beginning to be released from captivity, according to an aide to the minister of higher education, some of those individuals that were freed are reporting that they and other hostages were tortured while in captivity.

Now Kyra, earlier today, we went to that ministry building. It's actually a research facility that belongs to the Ministry of Higher Education. And when you look at the compound, it's not very difficult to imagine how this could have taken place.

It's the back entrance of it faces into a residential neighborhood. And it's quite easy to picture how, if 20 to 30 vehicles that look like Iraqi police vehicles drove up to that entrance, they could do so.

It's far away from the main road, especially if the individuals -- and this is another thing that we do know. Is that those that carried out the attack were dressed as Iraqi police.

But this really does underscore a number of issues that are facing this government. One, the fact that there are a number of armed groups, militias that are carrying out these attacked dressed like the security forces.

And it just illustrates the confusion of the Iraqi government. I mean, even the ministries, the government agencies, are not able to report the same facts, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: And also we're hearing about this attack on a bakery. So give us a sense, for no matter whether it's a government building, or police officers, fake police officers, or even just a bakery that civilians go to, it seems it's becoming even tougher for those that live there to even be a part of daily life.

DAMON: Kyra, anyone who you speak with here just tells you that every day is harder than the one past. And if we just look at that attack you mentioned that happened at about 7 a.m. this morning.

Armed gunmen stormed a bakery and opened fire. Nine Iraqis were killed, another two were wounded in the attack. And this is the sort of thing that many people that don't live in Iraq take for granted, the fact that you can go to a bakery and provide your family with breakfast. Even this simple task can cause Iraqis their lives.

We also had another attack, a car bomb, on one of Baghdad's main streets, on Palestine Street. That attack killed two Iraqis. Another five were wounded.

And as many Iraqis look around them, especially these days, that sense of despair is only increasing. And they're looking towards their government; they're seeing no solution. They're seeing a government that can't provide them with security.

And, really, at this point, there's a lot of debate about what to do to put Iraq back on the -- on the right track, but no real solutions, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Arwa Damon, live from Baghdad.

LEMON: Let's head straight to the NEWSROOM now. Carol Lin with details of a developing story in Indiana -- Carol.

CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: That's right. Take a look at these pictures, Don. There is a trailer in a -- at a truck stop, essentially, that is -- has got a chemical fog coming out of it.

And you have -- we saw hazmat teams kind of circling it. And they had opened the back gate.

This chemical is called sodium hydrosulfite. It's used in a variety of things: coloring fabric, paper, even in some food and beverages. But in its current state, it could be highly explosive. So they're concerned about a large chemical cloud spreading. They're concerned about an explosion.

But it appears in some of the shots that I was looking at coming into the CNN center that they've managed to get the back of this trailer open so that they could at least ventilate this cloud and try to get this chemical under control.

LEMON: Not to mention, Carol, the concerns about breathing it if there's a lot of it in the air.

LIN: Yes.

LEMON: So all right, we'll keep following this one. Thank you very much for that.

A twisted mess -- mess, all across the south. North Carolina town, the latest devastated by deadly storms. We're live from Riegelwood, just ahead.

PHILLIPS: And here comes the maverick. Senator John McCain taking steps today that he hopes will lead to the Oval Office. Complete coverage ahead in the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Well, if you smoke, you may have been dreading this day, but your family may have been counting the minutes. It's the Great American Smokeout, an annual event rooted in the belief that peer pressure can help smokers quit, just as it helps them start. It encourages smokers to kick the habit for just a day, and then maybe another and another. It all began in the 1970s.

(MARKET REPORT)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Total devastation, Like a war zone, that's how rescuers describe the storm damage that they're seeing in the tiny North Carolina town of Riegelwood. Power lines snapped in half, trees tossed like matchsticks, homes actually split in half. Others moved off their foundations. The deadly tornado that touched down this morning killed at least five people.

On the phone with us now, Kip Godwin, head of the Columbus County commissioner. He's also in charge of emergency services for this incident.

Kip, give us a feel or an update. We know we've reported five deaths. Have you found more bodies?

KIP GODWIN, COLUMBUS CO., N.C. DEPT. OF EMERGENCY SVCS.: We actually con confirm seven fatalities at this point and another 20 folks with storm-related injuries transported to area hospitals.

PHILLIPS: And tell me, how did this happen? Were these deaths in the mobile homes? Were they in other neighborhoods? How did they lose their lives?

GODWIN: As far as we know at this point, all of the confirmed fatalities were in a mobile home park called Old Farm Estate. And it was a cluster of mobile homes. I would say there's probably 25 or 30 in that particular neighborhood. And the tornado touched down and crossed through the center section of the mobile home park, completely destroying at least five or six residences there. And there were just -- when I arrived on the scene early this morning there was just piles of debris, that rescue workers had to use bulldozer-type equipment, front-end loader-type equipment to lift up debris and search for victims. We had a pretty early confirmation of five confirmed deaths, and now we can confirm seven.

And as I said, 20 other folks transported to area hospitals. And we've had rescue workers, not only from Columbus County, but this particular community, which is an unincorporated area; it's actually a village. It's kind of a mule town, with a plant here that makes paper for International Paper, and it's on the border with two other counties, Blaton (ph) and Brunswick, and we've had assistance from all those jurisdictions today as well.

PHILLIPS: Are you still searching for bodies? I know you had searched in a nearby forest just to see if there was anybody else that had been thrown from their homes. Are you concerned there might be more people out there?

GODWIN: We are still in an active search and rescue-type situation. There is emergency rescue, as well as law enforcement personnel on the scene. We have moved the mobile-command center about two miles away to a community center, the Riegelwood Community center, is where we are now commanding the scene. Our Sheriff, Chris Baton (ph), is in charge of the operation, and we have volunteers and paid staff from all over the region that are helping us, as well as from the state agencies that assist with emergencies. We are still actively searching for victims.

The primary thing we're doing now, though, is we're trying to compare lists. We have three lists that we're working from. One is a list of known fatalities, and we also have a list of those that were transported to area hospitals. And then we have a list -- which I'm not sure about any numbers on the list, but a list of possible missing persons. Now what we need to confirm, though, is that those missing persons are not at the hospital maybe with family members and they're safe and OK. We've got to confirm that before we know if we still have missing persons or not.

PHILLIPS: What about power? I know a lot of power lines had been knocked down. Is it -- is there enough power just to help people get through the day and do what they have to do?

GODWIN: We do have, I think, power primarily in this area. How many -- we have 14 -- 410 homes, I'm sorry that our local power utility company confirms are without power at this point, 410 confirmed to us here in the command center. And the power companies obviously with working to get power restored to those homes that are remaining. But, again, as you have reported, these mobile homes that were hit, as a direct hit of the tornado, they're completely destroyed. It's just piles of debris. There's no semblance of a home there. Even if some of these folks survived, they don't have a home to come back to, and obviously, don't have any food or clothing, or that kind of thing.

PHILLIPS: Well, that's where we see amazing outpouring by the community and elsewhere, and we'll stay on top of the story. Kip Godwin, Columbus County commissioner, is also in charge of emergency services there in Riegelwood, North Carolina.

Kip, thanks.

LEMON: In Montgomery, Alabama, crews are cleaning up and surveying damage. This time yesterday we were focusing on this structure. Take a look, a combination day care center and also a skating rink. Thirty-one 31 preschoolers and four adults were huddled inside when that building collapsed. Amazingly, no one was badly hurt. Experts have just confirmed to CNN it was a tornado that did all this damage.

(WEATHER REPORT)

PHILLIPS: Anger, bitterness, political intrigue, and that's just the companies.

LEMON: The incoming House majority chooses new leaders, results of secret votes, next in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: On to 2008. Whether to run for president is still a question for another day. But John McCain is taking a big step today. The Arizona Republican and presidential hopeful in 2000 is launching a presidential exploratory committee. That allows him to raise cash until he makes a final decision. If he does run, he can call on a lot of favors. He made 346 campaign appearances this year for fellow Republicans. He's pretty popular nation-wide. A recent CNN poll by Opinion Research Corporation finds 52 percent have a favorable opinion of him. 22 percent see him unfavorably. He's also consistently near the top in polls of potential Republican candidates.

LEMON; Let's talk about the New York state of mind. What is a New York state of mind? Seems to depend on when, when that is, not who you ask. In a CNN college poll back in August, New Yorkers who were asked which fellow New Yorker they'd like to see in the White House, they chose New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani over Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton by six percentage points.

But a new Sienna poll finds Clinton ahead of Giuliani 53 to 39 percent in a hypothetical head to head match-up. Last week, you may recall, Clinton won her non-hypothetical Senate re-election, that race, by a landslide.

PHILLIPS: Well, name recognition-wise, he's lacking. But it's an easy name to remember. Tommy Thompson, former Wisconsin governor and former health secretary to the current President Bush. He too plans to form an exploratory committee so he can start raising money while he considers running for president. Thompson says health care will be a huge issue in the 2000 campaign.

LEMON: All right, let's talk more about what happened on the Hill today. House Democrats chose their new leadership team with Nancy Pelosi cruising to a victory as incoming Speaker. Steny Hoyer winning the post as majority leader, but not nearly so easily and not with Pelosi's support. With me now are CNN political analysts Bay Buchanan and Democratic strategist Julian Epstein. Julian, I want to start with this -- Nancy Pelosi, by Democrats -- by siding with Murtha, did she -- is this a misstep?

JULIAN EPSTEIN, POLITICAL CONSULTANT: I'm not sure I would have advised her to get involved in the fight this way. But I think having -- Hoyer now having won, I think there are a couple of silver linings. First of all, I think this shows that Nancy Pelosi does not quash the (INAUDIBLE) way they say the whip Tom DeLay did with the Republicans. Secondly, I think this shows that the Democrats have in place still the team, the Pelosi-Hoyer team, that won them the House back. And third, I think while this was admittedly a dustup and not perhaps the best dustup for the Democrats, this will be forgotten in a week. The real question, is whether Democrats get some victories under their belt in the opening days of the new Congress.

LEMON: And Bay, it seems all smiles when you saw them all today. How is this being viewed by the Republicans?

BAY BUCHANAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well it clearly indicates that Nancy Pelosi has real poor judgment. This was a lose-lose for her. First of all, she opens herself up to this possible charge of hypocrisy. She talks about introducing this very high ethical standard and then her first move is to support somebody very much known to be involved in a scandal years ago -- the ABSCAM scandal.

Also, the only reason she -- really, that we can really determine that she would support Murtha, was because she's a close friend of his. Meaning that her judgment is based on emotions and not good sense. Steny Hoyer is a proven leader for the Democrats. Has been there many, many years, has worked with her, and she chose to abandon him, and all of his expertise, for a fellow that is not known as a leader. I think, her problem now, is that a lot of people think that her decision-making process may be a weak one.

LEMON: And Bay, perfect seque, let's talk about this poll, CNN, back in October, October 27 through 29th asked people, what was extremely important to your vote, to vote in Congress. They said Iraq, 49 percent. Terrorism, 46 percent. And it shows that ethics in government, 37 percent. So by her siding with someone, Bay, you mentioned, 1980 ABSCAM -- we have to say that Murtha was offered $50,000, but then he refused on tape. But let's take a look at exactly what that tape was and we'll come out and talk about it on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're telling me that's not what you -- you know, that's not what you ...

REP. JACK MURTHA (D), PENNSYLVANIA: I'm not interested ...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm sorry ...

MURTHA: At this point.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Okay.

MURTHA: If we do business for a while, maybe I'll be interested, maybe I won't.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So this was 1980, 1980. I want to point out, he was the only lawmaker involved in this scandal who was not charged. Why is this still being brought up -- Bay?

BUCHANAN; Well, listen to what he said. This is his standard, well, we'll do business, get along, and then maybe at that point I'll be glad to take your money. This is not the kind of individual that the American people would expect to be a leader in this country. Somebody that, depending on the circumstance, will be bought. Otherwise, though, the stakes aren't high enough, ah, you probably won't be able to get them.

LEMON: Julian, I said the only lawmaker who was not charged in this. Is this really sort of perception as reality? Do you think that?

EPSTEIN: Well, I think that it's a troubling tape. But I think that he was fully investigated in 1980 by the investigators at that point and he was cleared of that. So, I don't know how fair it is really to bring back something that's now 25 years old and try to tar him with that brush.

Having said that, I think this issue's done now. I think the real issue for the Democrats is to have a much tougher ethics package to ensure that scandals like the Abramoff scandal and all the other things we saw when Republicans controlled the House don't occur again. That's going to be the real ethics test for Speaker Pelosi. And as she said, she will pass the toughest reform package in the first 100 hours of the Democratic Congress, that the Congress has ever seen. And I think that's what the American people will judge her by.

LEMON: But Julian, all this talk about reaching across the aisle and representing everyone, and not just Democrats, and about ethics and all of that, and then to come out and support someone after this, you know, I don't know.

EPSTEIN: Well, again, I would not have necessarily advised speaker-elect Pelosi to have gotten involved in the fight the way she did. I think, again, a week from now this is going to be forgotten. The American people will not make the judgment based on this. The American people will make the judgment based on the meat and potatoes of ethic, which is, can she pass a tough ethics reform package.

LEMON: I know you want to jump in Bay, but we have to move on and again, this was 25 years ago, as you said, and he was not charged in this. Let's talk about John McCain. Exploratory committee and Bay I'll let you start. What do you think?

BUCHANAN: Well, he's a front-runner. He ran strong four years ago. I guess it was -- or was it eight years ago -- or six years ago, I should say. So, he has a base out there, an organization. I've talked to people in South Carolina, New Hampshire, and they say there are many, many good people. He probably has a good starting base of 30 percent in those states.

But he is on the wrong side of the issues for the base of the Republican Party and I think for America. He's very aggressive about war. He's talked about possibility of going into Iran militarily. That's not something Americans or Republicans are going to accept. He's an oli-oli an free on immigration, wants to give amnesty and bring in more guest workers, foreign workers into the country, something Republicans are absolutely opposed to. And thirdly, the conservative Republicans, the social conservatives are definitely opposed to him because they cannot trust him with the judges. And that will be key in a primary.

LEMON: And Julian -- Bay, you're right, he is viewed by Republicans as a maverick. How is that being viewed on the Democratic side, Julian?

EPSTEIN: Very fearsomely. I think we regard McCain as the most formidable of all of the opponents in the 2008 elections. Part of the reason for that, is because you used the word maverick. He has been a maverick, willing to buck his party leadership on a whole host of issues, taxes, immigration, a whole host of campaign finance reform laws.

Now, however, he seems to be moving to the right to satisfy the political base. He's moving to the right on the question of taxes, for example, on some social issues like gay marriage, on the question of Iraq. The question is, can he be all things to all people? As he moves to right, as he must to get the Republican nomination, can he keep the independent vote that has been such a defining characteristic of his candidacy in 2000 and his political persona thereafter? I think this is going to be an impossible balancing act.

LEMON: All right, we shall see all the answers to those questions, I'm sure are sure to come. Bay Buchanan, Julian Epstein, thank you.

EPSTEIN: Thanks for having us.

BUCHANAN: Thank you.

PHILLIPS: Well, you can almost hear the paparazzi saying grazi. Tom Cruise, Katie Holmes, TomKat, trying to tie the knot in Italy. We're going to take you there live for a preview straight from the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Let's go straight to the NEWSROOM. Carol Lin working details on a developing story out of Detroit.

What do you have, Carol?

CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: Kyra, we've been following this story for most of the morning. There was a shooting spree on the west side of Detroit and there's a massive manhunt going on right now. At first, there was a report of one gunman, but now we've confirmed they're looking for a second gunman.

So two gunman opening fire on five victims. Two people died, a 48-year-old woman and a man in his 50s. That woman, just inside her car, all right, and then all of this happening over a three- to four- block area.

So police only have the vaguest of descriptions. All they can say is that they're looking for a black male -- at least one of the gunman, a black male between 18 and 25 years old. He's between -- he's about 5'9" and weighs between 160 and 180 pounds.

Kyra, you know, that could describe half that neighborhood. So they really don't have much to go on except for a few eyewitness reports and five grieving families.

PHILLIPS: You've got the tipline there for the Detroit shooting, right, 313-596-2260.

LIN: Right, and if this is easier for people to remember, 1-800- SPEAK-UP is the number there for Detroit homicide there.

PHILLIPS: All right, we'll stay on it. Carol, thanks.

LIN: OK.

LEMON: Overdue confession or crass commercialism? Either way, O.J. Simpson's soon-to-be-released book, "If I Did It" and the surround hoopla are drawing all the controversy and contempt you'd expect. It's Simpson's supposedly hypothetical look at the 1994 murders of his wife, Nicole, and water Ron Goldman. Last night on "LARRY KING LIVE," Goldman's father was typically blunt about the project and Simpson's upcoming television interview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FRED GOLDMAN, VICTIM'S FATHER: I'm appalled. I don't know other -- there were a lot of other words, but none of them we want to use on TV. It was amazing to me that this whole thing has gotten as far as its gotten. Nothing would surprise me that this SOB would do, but the fact that someone is willing to publish this garbage, that Fox is willing to put it on air, is just morally despicable to me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So what do you think? E-mail us. The address is CNNNewsroom@CNN.com. We'll share your thoughts later this afternoon.

PHILLIPS: Jennifer Lopez, Marc Anthony, Jim Carrey, Brooke Shields probably didn't come to your wedding. But, hey, they and many others will be in Italy for Saturday's wedding of Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes.

CNN's Alessio Vinci is still watching his mailbox for his invite, spending a moment with us in the meantime.

Alessio, you've actually had a sighting of TomKat and Baby Suri, yes?

ALESSIO VINCI, CNN ROME BUREAU CHIEF: Well, it was very difficult to get a hold of them, Kyra. It appears Tom Cruise's mission here in Rome has been to remain as much as possible away from the public eye. And this is despite hundreds of fans who have been staking out his hotel on top of the Spanish Steps, as well, of course, as dozens of paparazzi.

And all we've got so far is one still photograph of them last night -- him, Katie Holmes and their child, Suri -- outside of the mayor's office, and then this morning Tom Cruise was spotted only for a few seconds inside the lobby of another hotel where Katie Holmes' parents are staying. So we haven't seen much of him.

We've seen lots of arrivals, as you mentioned. Jennifer Lopez, Jim Carrey, as well as Brooke Shields, as you mentioned, and we understand that John Travolta will be flying his own jet into the airport tomorrow carrying lots of other guests.

Now, details of the wedding, of course, are also a close-guarded secret. We do understand that Italian designer Giorgio Armani is organizing the party, in addition to providing the wedding gown, as well as the wedding suit for the married couple.

I've seen one report in an Italian newspaper, which I can't confirm, of course, that the suit that was provided to Tom Cruise actually did not fit because he's put on a little bit of weight so there had to be some adjustment made there. But -- and also, of course, the location is not clear 100 percent, although media speculation seems to have settled to a castle about an hour's drive north of Rome.

And that's where the world's media have converged so far -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right, now this is your country, Alessio, so tell me about Bracciano, what type of place it is and what's so enchanting about it.

VINCI: Well, it's a small town, up north from Rome. It has a beautiful 15th century castle overlooking a volcanic lake. It's a small, sleepy town usually and the people there are extremely excited that the couple allegedly have chosen that castle to get married.

Each -- the shopkeepers, especially, setting up their shop windows with pictures of Tom Cruise. His latest biography is a top seller there. I've seen one shopkeeper who is selling American ware, that is hoping to sell a lot of those maverick jackets, the "Top Gun" jackets, that Tom Cruise was wearing during the movie.

So I'm telling you, they're going absolutely crazy. And they will be very disappointed if the wedding actually does not take place there. I can tell you the whole world media is out there. The town is completely taken by storm. The locals are trying to cash in, of course, thousands of dollars to get a window overlooking the castle to get a shot of it.

PHILLIPS: All right, we'll be looking for the F-14 flyover of the wedding. Sounds good. A little "Top Gun" music.

Thanks so much, Alessio.

LEMON: Up next in the CNN NEWSROOM, a twisted mess across the south. A North Carolina town, the latest devastated by deadly storms.

PHILLIPS: We do expect to hear from the North Carolina governor, Mike Easley. He's going to brief reporters on the situation in just a few minutes. We'll take live coverage from the NEWSROOM.

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