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Nancy Grace
More Evidence Revealed in Trenton Duckett Case
Aired November 17, 2006 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, live from team Trenton headquarters, Leesburg, Florida, stunning developments suggest 2-year-old Florida boy Trenton Duckett could be alive. And tonight, we go inside the Trenton evidence room at police headquarters and finally see inside Trenton`s bedroom the night he went missing. And we get the chance to actually inspect and test the physical evidence for ourselves.
New details emerge in a parent`s worst nightmare, a 2-year-old boy tucked into his crib, Mom in the next room with a video. Then she says the window screen slashed, the baby gone. Almost immediately, police name Melinda Duckett the prime suspect. New credible witnesses come forward, and tonight, an exclusive interview with lead detectives.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the actual crime scene photo that was taken by one of the detectives the night that Melinda reported Trenton missing. This was the actual condition of his bedroom. This is the window.
GRACE: Wait. When you walked in, this is the condition of the bedroom?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This was the condition of the bedroom.
GRACE: The bed is made up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the condition of the bedroom (INAUDIBLE)
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Wait. Is the bed made up? I mean, all the toys and everything look arranged. Well -- OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s the condition.
GRACE: So someone had to reach in and get over -- impossible. OK. It`s impossible.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: Good evening, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight. Tonight, we are live at team Trenton headquarters with the hopes that baby Trenton, a 2-year-old boy missing from his home, could still be alive.
Out to Marilyn Aciego, reporter with "The Daily Commercial." Marilyn, What can you tell us? OK, when we get her hooked up -- let`s now go to Jean Casarez with Court TV. What can you tell us, Jean?
JEAN CASAREZ, COURT TV: Well, Nancy, we`ve known from the beginning that police did a dumpster pull the day after Trenton went missing. Well, now they`re being more specifics on what they actually found in this dumpster. Listen to this. Number one, a large quantity of disposable diapers. Number two, Tupperware-type containers, some of them having the name of Trenton on them. Number three, baby clothes. We have not heard that before. They found them in the dumpster. Next, Fisher-Price toys. We had heard there were baby toys in that dumpster. Now we hear they`re Fisher-Price toys, which are expensive toys, and a toy box. And that is in addition to what we already heard was a sonogram that was found in that dumpster, and also a box of plastic bags almost full, with just about a couple missing.
GRACE: Very disturbing today at Trenton evidence headquarters at police headquarters. We learned what Jean Casarez is reporting, disturbing news that many of the items thrown away in the dumpster were thrown away the day after Melinda Duckett reports the baby missing, including, as Jean pointed out, Tupperware that had used to take Trenton`s food back and forth to pre-school, with his name on it, including clean Tupperware, clearly meant to be used again, as well as used Tupperware, a large quantity of unused disposable diapers like Pampers, which we all know, very, very expensive.
Not only that, we learned that these items, repeat, thrown away after baby Trenton has been reported missing, Fisher-Price toys, expensive toys, including a toy box police tell me was still apparently in use, full of toys.
As a matter of fact, take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: Another question that came to mind were these two witnesses that many people believe she set up to be there when she discovered Trenton missing. OK. When they emptied the trash for her -- we all now know that in the trash were baby -- was baby food, sonogram, baby toys, baby-related articles. Why would they throw out all the baby things?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s not entirely accurate.
GRACE: Oh, good.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The two bags that were disposed of that evening by the gentlemen that were at the apartment -- as she was leaving the apartment, she asked if they could just take the trash out for her. And basically, what was found in there were several cleaning items. There were some food dishes and things like that. As far as the photographs that you`re referring to, those actually were thrown out later on.
GRACE: When were they thrown out?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The following day.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The following day.
GRACE: After Trenton was reported missing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: Joining us now, a special guest here at team Trenton headquarters, Bob Kealing. He is with WESH-26. He is a reporter there. Welcome, Bob. Thank you for being with us. Last night, I learned a lot from you. Tell us about your investigation into the case.
BOB KEALING, WESH: A couple of nights ago, Nancy, we were able to determine and report that not just one but actually two witnesses at that - - at the restaurant in Belleview say that they saw Melinda Duckett and Trenton very much alive at around 11:15 this morning. Well, since we reported that a couple of days ago, we can tell you that today, the Marion County sheriff`s department is now confirming that they spoke to that second witness, who they say is actually the manager of the store, and they say that they`re finding her story credible, that indeed, she also saw Melinda and Trenton Duckett that Sunday that she reported him missing, about 11:15.
So now you have two witnesses coming forward to say that they saw her with her child in the drive-through lane. So again, that helps them compress the timeline of when Trenton was last seen alive, Nancy.
GRACE: To Bob Kealing with WESH-TV. Bob, so this is really corroborating the long-time Wendy`s employees stating that they observed her there with the baby.
KEALING: Well, that`s right. And the way the scenario has been played out for me, Nancy, is that you have the one employee that we knew about and that you talked about last night. She`s been described for us as a part-time drive-through window worker who saw Melinda and Trenton. There`s also this manager. The way it has been described to us, that she actually thought that Trenton looked like her grandson and she remembers very vividly making faces at him to actually make him laugh because she`s so found of children.
So about 20 minutes later, the manager goes on to do her other duties, and that`s when Melinda comes through the second time, according to this first witness, without her son. So we have the one witness in the Wendy`s who actually saw Melinda without Trenton about 20 minutes later. But in terms of seeing both of them that first time, we can now confirm that the Marion County sheriff`s department is telling us that they have confirmed - - talked to that second witness and they are considering her very credible.
GRACE: Also today, at police headquarters in the Trenton evidence room, I was lucky enough to get to speak with the two lead investigators on this case. And they showed me photos of the crime scene, untouched that night. I think you`ll be just as surprised as I was when you see this. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the actual crime scene photo that was taken by one of our detectives the night that Melinda reported Trenton missing. This was the actual condition of his bedroom. This is the window.
GRACE: Wait. When you walked in, this is the condition of the bedroom?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This was the condition of the bedroom.
GRACE: The bed is made up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the condition of the bedroom at the time that the photograph was taken. This is, like, the comforter...
GRACE: Wait. Is the bed made up? I mean, all the toys and everything look arranged. Well -- OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s the condition. This is the photograph that was reportedly up on the windowsill that had been knocked to the floor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: From what I can see, the bed there is made up. You know, very often -- let me go out to Dr. Lisa Weinstock, psychiatrist. You know, very often, when you leave your home and you`re expecting guests and you want to leave it in picture-perfect condition, you`ll set up the pillows on the bed and the pillows on the sofa and sit in the rocking chair, the easy chair, and everything looks like it`s out of a magazine.
Lisa, if you take a look at those photos, there are a cast of Beanie Babies along the top of the bed and artfully arranged. The bed looks made and undisturbed, Lisa.
DR. LISA WEINSTOCK, PSYCHIATRIST: Absolutely. It looks as if there was no child sleeping in it. It looks the way you would expect a bed to look after a child has gotten out of bed and started their day or before a child has gone back into bed. So obviously, that`s very concerning, given the story that we`ve heard.
GRACE: Out to Mike Brooks, former D.C. cop and former fed with the FBI terrorism task force. Mike, a lot of developments we`ve learned today. What`s your take?
MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, SERVED ON FBI TERRORISM TASK FORCE: I`ll tell you what, Nancy. From looking at those pictures and what you were saying and the position of the bed in relation to the cut screen, the bed not made up -- unless she was obsessive-compulsive and made the bed up before she left. But you know, I mean, a normal person would not do that. They`re out there looking for their son, they`re not going to stop and make the bed up, Nancy. It`s just -- a lot of things just don`t add up to me, Nancy, especially now that -- with a second witness at Wendy`s, it makes what even that woman was saying more credible. So you know, again, there`s still some gaps early on in the timeline that they still haven`t been able to fill in.
GRACE: And another thing I noticed in those photos. Let`s take a look at the photos inside, if we can pull those up again, Rosie, the photos inside the bedroom. And this is the way Trenton`s bedroom looked when police got there, that night on the crime scene. This is Trenton`s bedroom. His bed looks made up, the little Beanie Babies Across the top, above his pillow. And you can see how difficult it would be for someone to reach into that window and down. That youth bed, toddler bed as it is called, is not very far off the floor.
And outside that apartment, as you can see right there, that`s Trenton`s bedroom, right beside the outdoor patio light. The window comes up about four, four-and-a-half feet off the ground, Mike Brooks. Those Beanie Babies and little stuffed toys, totally undisturbed. And right beside the bed -- if we can pull up the shot of the bedroom again, Rose -- right beside the bed is a little nightstand, and very delicately and artfully arranged on that, Mike Brooks, is a little display. There`s little toy-type things. None of that had been disturbed, Mike.
BROOKS: No. You`re right, Nancy. And you know, even -- I`m 6-foot- 7. It would take a lot for me to reach in, reach all the way down, and especially not even disturbing any of the Beanie Babies that are there on the bed, Nancy. It`s just -- you know, this just does not make sense. It -- there`s a lot of thing that are just weird. And if she was going to make the bed up, why didn`t she pick up the picture frame on the floor and put that back on the windowsill? She just left that down there. It just looks like it was a set-up scene there, Nancy.
GRACE: In addition, today I learned a lot about the alleged point of entry, the window. Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: So someone would have to reach in. And your arms would only come to about right here. How would you get the baby?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, and that`s the point we were trying to make earlier. And the condition of the blinds there, as you see -- there`s another picture that shows the actual -- the window itself. I think it`s an exterior shot. But in that photo, you see the blinds and the location of the blinds in relation to the window itself.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the actual window from the outside. This shows the height from ground level up to the window and the amount of space that the window was open at the time that we responded to the scene.
GRACE: Is this her front door?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
GRACE: What is this?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s a kitchen window.
GRACE: OK. So from her den, you can see into -- you can see the door to the bedroom, where she was watching TV? Josh told me that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
GRACE: OK. Was the light on that night?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When we arrived, it was.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: Not only did I learn a lot from looking at the interior of baby Trenton`s bedroom, I learned a lot about the screen itself. Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: OK. And this really clears up a lot because the original cut, we were told, was just 10 inches, which would be this length here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
GRACE: OK. And this really clears up a lot because a lot of screens are hard, and you can see which way it was cut, from the outside or the inside. This is not hard at all, so although it is facing that way a little bit, I don`t think that that would be probative of anything.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, one of the things that you have to keep in mind, too, is the transportation back and forth to the lab, of course, in terms of settling and stuff like that.
GRACE: So is this the top?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. These are the clips that I was trying to describe.
GRACE: To describe. So would this just -- you push it in, and then the clips hold it in by tension.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s -- yes, that`s (INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: So you`ve got 10 inches here, and what, 27...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: About 32, something like that.
GRACE: So that would be -- OK. Hold on. I`m going to demonstrate. So someone would have to reach in and get over -- impossible. OK. It`s impossible. And if they took the screen off, then why cut the screen?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
GRACE: So the screen was not taken off.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: In fact, that night that I interviewed Melinda Duckett, she told me that the screen had not been taken off.
Let`s go out to the lines. Sherry in Tennessee. Hi, Sherry.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Thank you so much for giving victims a voice.
GRACE: Thank you, dear.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question tonight was, Are there any surveillance films from Wendy`s?
GRACE: You know, excellent question. Let`s go back out to WESH-TV reporter Bob Kealing. He`s joining us here outside team Trenton headquarters. What about surveillance video, Bob?
KEALING: So far, Nancy, no word at all on surveillance video from the Wendy`s. However, they do have a cash register receipt from that Sunday that corresponds to the amount that that drive-through employee remembers charging Melinda for one of the meals, so they consider that further corroborating evidence.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: (INAUDIBLE) and you`re still actively pursuing the case.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, absolutely.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, absolutely.
GRACE: You looked away.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I didn`t look away, I...
GRACE: You did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`ve actually got shivers down here because I`ve been involved with this since 10:30 August 27, 10:30 in the evening, August 27. And this has consumed me since then.
GRACE: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: OK. Now you`ve met the guys. Believe me, these guys are not letting up, not in Marion County, not in Leesburg. They are on it, still searching for 2-year-old Florida boy Trenton Duckett.
Joining me right now is a very special guest. His name is Doc Holiday. He`s with "The Doc and Johnny Show." It is XL 1067. Should I call you Mr. Doc?
DOC HOLLIDAY, "DOC AND JOHNNY SHOW," XL 1067: You can just call me Doc, and that`ll be great.
GRACE: Doc, I learned something very surprising today. We all know that I had spoken with Melinda Duckett on air as a part of our show covering Trenton`s disappearance. I now learned that you interviewed her. Was it the same day I did?
HOLLIDAY: We had two conversations with her. I`m going to tell you, the first one was very bizarre. The Trenton Duckett case came up as an Amber Alert. And it was very localized to Leesburg, which is about an hour north of Orlando, and there seemed to be no sense of urgency about this case. And out of the blue, the week of her unfortunate suicide, we got a call from someone claiming to be a member of her family, asking her to come on and would she please be able to come on our show and talk about her son. We said, Well, of course.
So we get her on and we`re listening to her speak, and very apathetic, very laid back, no sense of urgency, just talking about it, talking about it. And the conversation kept leaning toward the father. In other words, she kept saying, you know, My baby`s missing, and you know, me and the father have been having a lot of problems.
And it was so apathetic that my partner, Grace, who`s our news director, who arranged for you to be on our show with us this morning, said, Is this the mom? And she didn`t mean it sarcastically. She goes, Yes. And it was because I recognized her from her interviews. And a week had gone by, and suddenly, the TV stations had started to chase her around -- the apathy -- and the people had started to point fingers at her immediately. It was the no sense of urgency.
Now, here`s the thing I felt terrible about. I was thinking, Hey, how can you guys beat on this woman? Her baby is missing and -- you know, and people were calling me, women`s intuition. And you know, I`m afraid they were right. No woman who lost her baby could be that calm. And I said, Well, what if she`s one of these people that just breaks down when they go inside? They said, No. She -- she -- no, something`s not right here.
And as we listened back to the conversation, it seemed like instead of putting out a warning for Trenton, she was using our show as a forum -- and I discussed this with you -- to kind of bring the father into it. And as we got off the air, I knew something was wrong.
And this is something I didn`t get a chance to mention to you today. The FDLE called up our parent company and wanted a tape of that show and said there was evidence in it that they needed. Our company policy is to say, Oh, we don`t know, and a subpoena was issued immediately.
She said something in there, and my boss came to me, Tommy Chapp (ph), our program director, and said, Apparently, she`s a suspect. And all of a sudden, that worm turned really bad, and then TV started chasing her around. And then she got annoyed that the TV was chasing her around. And people were really coming down, and we were fielding calls that were saying -- you know, pointing the finger directly at her. And I kept saying, yes, but she -- you know, She`s a mom. How could she do this? And then the father took a lie-detector test.
Now, this is where you came in. And I commend your interview. The next day, I stuck up for it. I told you about that. It was a great piece of journalism. I think the abuse that you took in the media -- they had no idea. You asked every question that our listeners were calling to ask.
And when he volunteered to take that test and she didn`t, we questioned it. And then you interviewed her, and then you know the results from there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: Have you ever noticed, when you`ve got somebody lying to you, a witness, a defendant, whoever, they will pick pieces of the truth and they`ll weave that into their story.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely. The best lie always contains a little bit of truth in it.
GRACE: Yes, because you don`t have to imagine and create too much (INAUDIBLE) the truth. Do you believe that`s what she`s doing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I believe there are certain parts of her initial story that were true. I think there`s a lot that was omitted or lied about, yes.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: Welcome back. We are broadcasting live here at team Trenton headquarters, hoping against hope that this baby is still alive and will be found.
Back out to Doc Holliday with "The Doc and Johnny Show" on XL 1067. Doc, did you ask Melinda Duckett about cooperating with police, about whether she had taken a polygraph? And if so, what did she say?
HOLLIDAY: This big story was in this -- and I`ll keep this brief, I know you`re on a short time leash here -- is that the second phone call, which was very brief, was to promote the fact that she was going to be on national TV and everybody look for -- look at the picture. It was also very laid back.
And I -- Hey, by the way, the big story -- I`m not accusing you of anything, but the big story is that your ex took the polygraph and passed, and you wouldn`t. And I`m just kind of curious. People are kind of wondering why you wouldn`t. And there was silence and she goes, I`m not going to comment on that. And that was the end of it. And TV interviews that night ran it. It was the same response, I`m not allowed to comment, I`m not going to comment. That`s when I think the public turned against her.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Why aren`t you telling us and giving us a clear picture where you were before your son was kidnapped?
M. DUCKETT: Because I`m not going to give those kind of details out.
GRACE: Ms. Duckett, you`re not telling us for a reason. What is the reason? You refuse to give even the simplest facts of where you were with your son before you went missing.
M. DUCKETT: It`s not just here. It`s all media, period.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Melinda went from being so nice and happy just into just minutes of being just a total opposite. She would just go off, and she`d be so mad and angry. But then, after she`d get mad and angry, just like a it`s sudden thing, because 10 or 15 minutes later, she`s back talking to you like nothing ever happened.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. We are live here in Leesburg, Florida, a second night in a row, hoping to reinvigorate the search for a 2-year-old missing Florida boy, Trenton Duckett. And, boy, today did we learn a lot.
Let`s go out to the lines. Christine in Georgia, hi, Christine.
CALLER: Hey, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: What`s your question, dear? I`m good.
CALLER: I was just wondering if the investigators have or Josh has had anything -- to talk to the grandparents of Melinda and, if so, if they`ve questioned if how she was acting the days afterwards?
GRACE: The days after Trenton went missing?
CALLER: Yes, ma`am.
GRACE: Good question. Joining me here is Josh Duckett. This is Trenton`s dad. Josh, did you ever get a chance to speak to Melinda`s grandparents, the ones that were here in town?
JOSH DUCKETT, FATHER OF TRENTON DUCKETT: No. I`ve had no contact with them throughout the whole thing.
GRACE: Let`s go back to the lines. Beth in Iowa. Hi, Beth.
CALLER: Hi, Nancy. I couldn`t help but notice in the photo of the window from the outside that there was a landscape flower bed. And I was just wondering if there was any sign of a disturbance in the mulch or even possibly a foot imprint in the mud surrounding it.
GRACE: You know, that`s a really good question.
To Jean Casarez -- and, Rosie, as we`re talking about that, let`s see if we can pull up the picture. I think it`s coming up next. There you go. Thank you.
There are photos taken the night of the incident, Jean, and I don`t see any disturbance whatsoever.
CASAREZ: Right. Beth has a great question, because one thing investigators immediately do is always see if there are footprints outside of an entry point. What we do know, though, Beth, is that some latent fingerprints or fingerprint was found on the windowsill inside, and police took that print. They have analyzed it, but they will not and have not told us whose print it is. So it could be Melinda`s. It could be Trenton`s. It could be an unidentified print.
GRACE: You know, to Josh Duckett, Trenton`s father who is with us tonight, what did you learn about the crime scene from police, Josh?
J. DUCKETT: I learned that the window -- basically, the cutting in the screen. And today, I learned how the window was actually opened as much as it was.
GRACE: What do you mean?
J. DUCKETT: How much the window was actually opened. At first I was told it was only open three inches.
GRACE: And?
J. DUCKETT: And it actually came out that it`s opened about 10 inches.
GRACE: And what did you observe about blinds inside the window?
J. DUCKETT: The blinds were level with the cut in the screen and level with the window opening.
GRACE: Well, as a matter of fact, let`s take a listen to what police have to say about the window.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the actual window from the outside. This shows the height from ground level up to the window and the amount of space that the window was open at the time that we responded to the scene.
GRACE: Is this her front door?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
GRACE: What is this?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s a kitchen window.
GRACE: OK. So from her den, you can see into -- you can see the door to the bedroom, where she was watching TV? Josh told me that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
GRACE: OK. Was the light on that night?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When we arrived, it was.
GRACE: The original cut we were told was just 10 inches, which would be this length here. OK, and this really clears up a lot, because a lot of screens are hard and you can see which way it was cut, from the outside or the inside. This is not hard at all, so although it is facing that way a little bit, I don`t think that that would be probative of anything.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, one of the things that you have to keep in mind, too, is the transportation back and forth to the lab, of course, in terms of settling and stuff like that.
GRACE: So is this the top?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. These were the clips that I was trying to describe.
GRACE: To describe. So would this just -- you push it in, and then the clips hold it in by tension?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s -- yes.
GRACE: So you`ve 10 inches here and, what, 27...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: About 32, something like that.
GRACE: So that would be -- OK. Hold on. I`m going to demonstrate. So someone would have to reach in and get over. Impossible. OK. It`s impossible. And if they took the screen off, then why cut the screen?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
GRACE: So the screen was not taken off?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Let`s unchain the lawyers. Joining us tonight, veteran trial lawyers out of the California jurisdiction. Michael Cardoza is joining us in our New York studios. Doug Burns out of New York jurisdiction, and Penny Douglass Furr, an expert in child custody, out of the Atlanta jurisdiction.
Welcome, colleagues.
First to you, Michael Cardoza. Now that I have seen the screen -- Michael, I don`t know if you have screens on your home. But the ones I had growing up, they actually locked in place on the inside. This one is a tension screen. You easily just push down the top with your hand and pull out the screen. It`s just like that. So the whole cutting process is totally staged.
And in fact, it`s Trial 101. It`s something detectives look at to determine whether the scene has been staged or not, very significant to this case, in particular. Why go through all the trouble of the elaborate cutting on the screen when all you had to do was pull the screen out? What about it, Michael Cardoza? What does it suggest?
MICHAEL CARDOZA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I`ll tell you what. I mean, is there an indication that the screen was cut or did someone just rip it and pull it away? Now, one thing that I was talking to Marc Klaas about earlier was, could someone have just leaned in, known the little boy, and called him over, said, "Trenton, come on over to the window"?
Trenton walks over. They reach in. They pick him up, and they take him away. I mean, that`s one possibility from. What I`m hearing you say, it would be impossible to reach in and reach all the way across to the bed. And I agree with you. That probably would be impossible, but not improbable that someone could do the other.
Do I think that happened? No, I don`t, because you look at Melinda. I`ll tell you what, everything we learn about her, she wasn`t cooperative in this investigation. She wouldn`t take a lie detector test. She was at work, and she was a suspect in taking money from the bank. And then you have the unsavory characters that she was hanging around with.
There were all sorts of things that point to her, indicate to me one of two things: Either this baby is gone -- and God I hope that`s not true -- or, secondly, she did give it to someone else. And, you know, a logical thing in my mind would be to take the baby out of the country, not keep the baby in the country. Those are the two things that I`m working on.
I think Melinda was absolutely involved with this. It`s just one of two questions remain. Is the little boy still alive? Or did she, in fact, give him to somebody?
Remember, she went into court and got a TRO against her husband, a temporary restraining order, saying that he sent her a letter, and the police were able to prove that she concocted that letter. In other words, she lied. Then she went into court and she lied under oath. So, as I say, this woman is not to be trusted.
And I`ve got to tell you, one of two things happened. Either she took that young boy`s life or she gave the child to someone else to keep him away from her husband and that child is in someone else`s care.
And what strikes me, too, is, why aren`t we all talking about if someone else was involved, they are committing a crime? And I certainly suggest, if they`re listening to this, turn yourself into the police or at the least go to a lawyer and get the lawyer to turn little Trenton over to the police and keep yourself out of it, but give the baby up, because if they catch you with this baby, they`re going to prosecute you for all sorts of crimes and all sorts of felony crimes, and you`re going to spend a long time in state prison for this one.
GRACE: You know, you brought up several interesting points, as usual, Michael Cardoza. Let`s go to Doug Burns on two of them.
Number one, Michael brought up, was the screen just torn when someone goes in? No. Look. And I`m no professional, but even I can tell this was very carefully cut. In fact, Michael -- I`m sorry, throwing this to Doug - - in fact, Doug, on either side, vertically, it was cut the same exact length, on either side.
And as to Michael`s question, could you just reach in and pick up the child? If you look from the inside, at the inside crime scene photo, there`s no way. The baby`s only like two-and-a-half feet tall. There`s no way to reach in at four-and-a-half feet on the outside and lean and get the baby without coming through the window entirely yourself, Doug.
DOUG BURNS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You have carefully broken down this screen issue, and in my opinion -- I understood Michael`s first point. But in my opinion, you have completely torn apart the notion that somebody came in and abducted the child through the screen. In my opinion...
GRACE: What about immunity, Doug? What about immunity to someone?
BURNS: Immunity to come in and talk about that? That`s a possibility. But the point of the matter is, is that Michael`s 100 percent right. In my opinion, there are only two possibilities. This woman is clearly -- and I`m talking 100 percent -- involved. The only question is: Did she kill the child or hand the child over?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWSBREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At one point, she just simply terminated the interview. She goes, "I really don`t want to be here any longer. I have things to do." And terminated...
GRACE: What thing to do, other than look for your kid?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nancy, I couldn`t tell you that.
GRACE: Did you ask her?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I didn`t get the opportunity. She wanted to leave, and she walked out of the interview.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... to process, depending on the witnesses that come forward and what you can verify, what you cannot verify. I can say that there are many aspects of information received from Melinda that we may be able to discount.
DISPATCHER: No shoes, no shirt. He`s an Asian male.
M. DUCKETT: He`s wearing jean shorts. He`s 2 years old.
DISPATCHER: He`s wearing jean shorts.
M. DUCKETT: Yes.
DISPATCHER: And he`s 2 years old. And how long has he been gone?
M. DUCKETT: I don`t know.
DISPATCHER: You don`t know?
M. DUCKETT: I was watching a movie that was two hours long. I`ve checked on him before anyone came down to the house.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back. We are broadcasting live here at Team Trenton Headquarters in the hopes that Trenton Duckett, a 2-year-old Florida boy, is still alive. Let`s go back to the lawyers. Joining us, Michael Cardoza, Doug Burns, and Penny Douglass Furr.
Doug Burns, before we went to break, you would talking about this alleged staging of the scene...
BURNS: Right.
GRACE: ... and the possibility of immunity for anyone that may be involved with this.
BURNS: Right. The only thing there is you have to be very careful before you make an immunity decision. You have to interview the people carefully to make sure that you don`t give the wrong person immunity. So they would have to make sure, by the way, that the person that they`re even considering giving immunity isn`t the actual perpetrator and/or murderer. So you`ve got to be very careful. But that wouldn`t be a bad road to possibly pursue.
GRACE: To Penny Douglass Furr, child custody expert, you know, I`ve had a lot of criminal defense attorneys say to me, "I would rather represent a doper or a killer than get involved in a divorce or a child custody hearing." And here, according to police, there is no doubt that an e-mail was faked in which Melinda Duckett sent herself and her child a threat allegedly from Josh in order to go to court to try to get temporary custody. Have you ever seen anything like it?
PENNY DOUGLASS FURR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, it happens all the time in child custody cases, and this woman was extremely manipulative and extremely vindictive. She was setting him up. It was obvious from the e- mail. She had no problems with lying or breaking the law to get it. And she was going to set him up, as she said in the phone conversation.
She said, "I know who frickin` did it." She was trying to set him up to show he had done this. And I hopefully believe that this woman hid the child because she was under no circumstances willing to let the father have the child. To write the will two months before this, she was obviously planning the suicide, and she wanted to make sure the father did not get the child.
GRACE: Out to Doc Holliday with the "Doc and Johnny Show," XL 1067. Again, Doc, thank you for being with us. I know you`re on your way to a wedding. When you interviewed Melinda Duckett, not once but twice, was she upset on the phone? Would she answer your questions?
HOLLIDAY: No. You know, it`s so funny. Your last guest hit it so on the head. The first conversation we had, she goes, "Thanks for taking my call. You know my baby`s missing." Very calm, and then -- she could have been medicated. I didn`t try to take anything out of the demeanor, except the listeners really did.
And every time I`d say, "What was he wearing? What do you think happened?" The conversation always switched back to the father, constantly. And I had to bring it back. And then later, when we got off, and the FDLE had subpoenaed the tape, we realized at that point they weren`t getting that tape because they thought she had said something to lead them to somebody else. She was indicting herself and was just constantly blaming the dad and saying, "Yes, you know, we had problems." "I understand that. But now, what time did it happen?" "It happened at so-and-so, but, you know, we always had problems." And so yes...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Actually getting facts from her.
HOLLIDAY: Yes, right. The first day went back to the father. The second day, no comment about the lie detector.
GRACE: Got you.
Out to Marilyn Aciego standing by here at Team Trenton Headquarters. She`s with the "Daily Commercial." Marilyn, how many interviews did Melinda Duckett give?
MARILYN ACIEGO, REPORTER, "DAILY COMMERCIAL": She walked out of several interviews with police and she -- every time that I tried to interview her, Nancy, she refused to talk to me. And then there was one point where she called my editor and wanted to talk to me at one point, and the police felt that meant that she left my editor -- it was also very odd, too -- and asked for a copy of that tape, also.
GRACE: Back out to Marc Klaas, the president of Beyond Missing. Marc, what can we do to help reinvigorate the search now? You`ve been there.
MARC KLAAS, FOUNDER OF BEYOND MISSING: Yes, I have been, and I would like to speak directly to Josh now. Josh, what you have to do is move forward. Forget this vindictive woman, and start putting strategies together every week for the next eight weeks. Focus on three things you can do every week. Maybe you could get the Harley Club to ride down Main Street to draw media attention to the case. Maybe you could have Mark Lunsford or other fathers who have been in a similar situation come and sit with you.
But if you start planning well out into the future, you can keep this case alive, because the shelf life is running out. And it`s up to you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: This is already (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
GRACE: The original cut we were told was just 10 inches. It would be this length here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
GRACE: OK. And this really clears up a lot, because a lot of screens are hard.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: With me here at Team Trenton Headquarters, Leesburg, Florida, is private investigator P.A. Turner with Sunshine State Investigations. You wanted to clarify that this witness, this newly emerged witness, states that she observed Melinda and Trenton at an Ocala convenience store August 27th, the day he was reported missing, around 9:30 in the morning?
P.A. TURNER, SUNSHINE STATE INVESTIGATIONS: Just after 9:30.
GRACE: 9:30 in the morning. Well, the big question tonight is, is 2- year-old Trenton Duckett still alive?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Team members of this parallel investigation by the Marion County Sheriff`s Office are prepared to say that little Trenton is alive.
J. DUCKETT: I`m keeping my hopes high but, I mean, you`ve got to prepare yourself for the worst and hope for the best. But, I mean, I`m still 100 percent confident that he`s somewhere out there.
GRACE: Melinda, where had you been with him that day? Where were you? Have you taken a polygraph? What store did you go to? Why? What is the reason? Melinda, have you taken a polygraph? Why aren`t you telling us and giving us a clear picture of where you were? Where had you been that day? Doing what? What store (INAUDIBLE) why?
Ms. Duckett, you`re not telling us for a reason. Why aren`t you telling us where you were that day? You were the last person to be seen with him. What is the reason you refuse to give even the simplest facts of where you were with your son before he went missing?
GRACE: Tonight, live at Team Trenton Headquarters here in Leesburg, Florida, hoping to reinvigorate the search for baby Trenton.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The latest is they`ve had a witness step forward who says that she saw Melinda and Trenton both come through the drive-thru at Wendy`s.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Look for Trenton. And if you have him, to please return him home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We pause to remember Army Specialist Daniel Winegeart, just 23, Koontz, Texas (ph), killed, Iraq. On his third tour of duty, received multiple medals of bravery, a member of the Special Forces, loved spending time with his dad, hunting, fishing. He leaves behind a grieving family, including sister Casey. Daniel Winegeart, American hero.
Thank you to our guests. Our biggest thank you, to you, for being with us. And tonight a special goodnight from the New York control room. Good night, everybody.
NANCY GRACE signing off for tonight. See you tomorrow, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
