Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

School Bus Plunges Off Overpass; Government Officials Targeted by Iraqi Insurgents; Pentagon Reviews Iraq War Plans; Bush Receives Mixed Greeting on Asia Trip; Barack Obama Considers Presidential Run; Two Confirmed Dead in Alabama School Bus Crash

Aired November 20, 2006 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Kyra Phillips at the CNN World Headquarters in Atlanta.
Has the trail gone cold? We're on the search for missing American contractors in Iraq.

It's home to some of the most notorious criminals in the country, but is Supermax becoming super lax? CNN investigated. Hear what happened after our report.

A racist rant from the comedian known as Kramer. Did Michael Richards go too far? We've got the tape and the controversial comments.

You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

Let's get straight to the newsroom at the top of the hour. Betty Nguyen working details on a developing story -- Betty.

BETTY NGUYEN, ANCHOR: We have an awful school bus accident to tell you about, Kyra, this out of Huntsville, Alabama. What we understand is that several students, dozen of them, perhaps, have been seriously injured in this accident. Let me tell you what happened.

It happened on the I-65 ramp at Church Street. It was an overpass. This bus that you see there plunged off of that overpass, the front of that bus severely damaged.

As you know, school buses don't have seat belts for the students inside and we understand some 20 to 30 students were inside that bus, many of them transported to the local emergency room at the Huntsville hospital. In fact, so many that the E.R. was just overwhelmed, and they had to send some of those students to another nearby hospital.

Parents, they are just frantic at this hour. As for the injuries, a lot of that is unknown at this time. And we don't know exactly how many students were injured, but what we do understand from the Huntsville police is that many of the injuries are life threatening. Again, no count on that.

What happened? We simply don't know that at this point, but you can see the damage there to that bus. It plunged off of an overpass this morning, which is about 30 feet to the ground there, so, obviously, major injuries that we're going to be learning about. Possibly some life-threatening injuries that we'll hear more about as we continue to gather more information on this.

But again, Lee High School students were on that bus. This was in Huntsville, Alabama. Many of them transported to the nearest hospital, some of them with life-threatening injuries -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: All right. We'll follow it, Betty. Thanks.

My colleague, Don Lemon, joins me now from Chicago.

Don, you've got an exclusive later in the show with Senator Barack Obama?

SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D), ILLINOIS: I certainly do, Kyra. I hope you're doing well today.

This afternoon, Senator Obama gets his first major foreign policy speech on Iraq, and I'll have our exclusive interview with him after that.

Plus, more on whether he will make the run for the presidency. That's a question that everyone is asking, and we're going to try and get an answer for you.

PHILLIPS: All right, we'll talk soon.

LEMON: All right.

PHILLIPS: Teachers, political leaders, even comedians. It seems no -- no one, rather, is safe on the streets of Iraq these days, no matter what they do for a living. Insurgents are getting more brazen, and their list of targets is getting much longer.

CNN's Arwa Damon is in Baghdad with threat latest -- Arwa.

ARWA DAMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, imagine in a period of 24 hours both of Iraq's deputy -- deputy ministers in the health ministry attacked.

At noon today, one of the deputy health ministers' convoy was attacked in central Baghdad. He was not present there at the time, but the attack did kill two of his bodyguards and wounded a third.

Now, less than 24 hours before that, at about 5:30 p.m. in the evening local time, Iraq's other deputy of health minister was kidnapped from his home when armed gunman, at least two dozen of them, arrived at his house and stormed inside. They were masquerading as Iraqi police and as Iraqi officials.

And also, one of Iraq's well-known comedians, Walid Hassan, was found with four bullets to the head. He starred on one of the comedy shows here that appears on one of the Sunni satellite TV stations. He was very well-known in this country.

The show was basically called "Caricature", and it mocked the Iraqi government. It criticized the Iraqi government. It also criticized and mocked the militias and the insurgent groups here. Really, Kyra, it provided much needed humor in this country, albeit it was black humor, at a time when few people are finding anything to really laugh about.

And Kyra, one last thing to tell you: the Iraqi emergency police found 60 bodies just in the capitol of Baghdad. According to one of the officials of the Iraq's Minister of Interior, the death toll this month, 20 days into November, is already higher than that of October -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: And also on our minds, the search for those missing American contractors. Do you have an update on that situation?

DAMON: Well, Kyra, four U.S. contractors, one Austrian contractor still believed kidnapped, still believed to be alive. The search does continue for them in southern Iraq. They were kidnapped in the vicinity of because Basra when their convoy came upon a fake checkpoint, and in that case, too, the local militiamen were masquerading as Iraqi police.

Now, we do know that there are intense military operations going on in that area. We do know that a few people have been interrogated, but the military really not disclosing many details at this point, citing operational security. They really don't want to endanger these five any further, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Arwa Damon, live from Baghdad, thank you.

Well, go big, go long or go home. Three options, one goal: finding an end to the Iraq war. The "Washington Post" says it's all part of a secret Pentagon review, which isn't so secret any more.

Our senior Pentagon correspondent, Jamie McIntyre, has the details.

Hey, Jamie.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Kyra.

Well, the review isn't secret, but what they're actually coming up with is still pretty held close to the vest. The "Washington Post" talked about three different options, as you said. One of -- two of them, by the way, are really not being considered. That is the go big, big influx of U.S. troops into Iraq. That's not being considered.

Go home, that's the big withdrawal of U.S. troops. That's not being considered either.

What the "Post" has centered on is essentially what General Abizaid discussed last week, which is the fact that you can have a modest increase of troops in Iraq, but it couldn't be sustained for very long, and what he wants to see is a big emphasis on training up the Iraqis.

What we are seeing with this group, which is actually about 16 people at the Pentagon, 16 officers, most of them commanders just back from Iraq with first-hand experience, is they are providing private advice to the chairman of the joint chiefs, General Peter Case. Their best estimate on what the obstacles are, what the best approach might be, what their first-hand insight is from just coming back from the battlefield. Most of these are colonels or that level of officer.

And then General Pace will sort of assimilate all of that into his mind as he makes recommendations to the president. You're not going to see any sort of formal report out of the Pentagon, any formal recommendation.

What you're going to see is General Pace providing his best military advice after he's been brainstorming with some of his frontline commanders. And that's really what this review is all about, rather than coming up with a specific recommendation -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Jim, we've also been talking about Representative Charlie Rangel talking about the draft, talking bringing the draft back. He's going to propose this bill. Are you getting any reaction from military leaders?

MCINTYRE: Yes. Not going to happen is basically what they're saying. The Pentagon is dead set against the draft. They believe that voluntary, the all-voluntary military works far better.

They believe if you need to increase the size of the U.S. military, it can be done through a volunteer force, and they're absolutely against going back to forced conscription.

And in fact, that's pretty much the mood on Capitol Hill, as well. The incoming, the soon to be speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi, asked today about Rangel's proposal, said she's not in favor of it. Gives you an idea of what the congressional support is.

But Congressman Rangel really wants to make the point that, when you have a war like what's going on in Iraq, then it should be a shared sacrifice, and that service to your country is not a bad thing either.

So he's going to go ahead and introduce that bill next year when he takes over as chairman of the ways and means committee, but nobody expects it to go anywhere -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Jamie, thanks.

A summit on Iraq without the U.S.? Well, the Associated Press reports that Iran is inviting the Syrian and Iraqi president to Tehran this weekend to talk about ways to make peace.

Iraqis sources tell the A.P. that Iraq's president has accepted. The U.S. has accused both Iran and Syria of making things worse in Iraq but now is undergoing pressure to include them in peace efforts.

Indonesia is behind him, Hawaii's ahead. President Bush wrapped up his Asia trip with a six-hour layover in the world's most populous Muslim nation. The welcome was warm at the presidential palace in suburban Jakarta. Outside, it was a very different story. CNN White House correspondent, Ed Henry, is traveling with the president.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ED HENRY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Thousands of protesters in the streets of Bogor, Indonesia, a Muslim country seething about President Bush's invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan.

During a brief joint press conference with his Indonesian counterpart, Mr. Bush tried to downplay the protest with a quip.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's not the first time, by the way, that people have showed up and expressed their feeling about my policies.

HENRY: Perhaps a fitting end to a weeklong swing through Asia that highlighted the unpopularity of the war in Iraq. Attending the APEC summit in Vietnam, inviting inevitable comparisons between two unpopular wars.

The president's final day in the region began in Vietnam, banging the gong at the stock exchange in Ho Chi Minh City to highlight a former enemy's burgeoning economy.

After criticism, he had not been mingling with ordinary people on his trip, the president was bobbing to the beat as children performed traditional Vietnamese dances and songs.

But a much more hostile reception was waiting in Indonesia...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The biggest terrorist in the world.

HENRY: ... where there's anger about the war in Iraq.

BUSH: I haven't made any decisions about troop increases or troop decreases. And won't until I hear from a variety of sources, including our own United States military.

So I haven't -- there's no need to comment on something that may not happen. But if it were to happen, I would tell you the upsides and down sides.

HENRY: And when the Indonesian president was asked whether he had privately urged the U.S. president to begin withdrawing troops from Iraq, Mr. Bush jumped in.

BUSH: I mean, I'd be glad to answer for him, no he didn't. But he must answer for himself.

HENRY (on camera): There was so much concern here about the president's security he would not even stay overnight in Indonesia, the White House choosing instead to fly him for 13 hours so he could sleep safe and sound in Hawaii.

Ed Henry, CNN, Bogor, Indonesia. (END VIDEOTAPE)

PHILLIPS: Let's get straight to the newsroom. Betty Nguyen has details on a developing story out of Alabama -- Betty.

NGUYEN: Hi, there, Kyra.

We unfortunately have some news about the injuries sustained in that bus accident in Huntsville, Alabama. We understand there have been some fatalities.

According to the Huntsville School District, two students, well, I shouldn't say students just yet. We know at least there are two fatalities. We don't know exactly who was killed in this just yet, but two people have been killed in this bus accident.

There's the bus right there. It plunged off of an overpass at the Church Street Overpass, in fact, if you're familiar with that area. That's about 30 feet down to the highway below where it hit. There were some 30 students on board from Lee High School.

Let's go on the phone now to Wendall Johnson. He is with the Huntsville police.

If you could, please, what do you know about these fatalities today? We understand there are two at this point.

WENDALL JOHNSON, HUNTSVILLE POLICE: Right now I've been trying to reach my Huntsville police chief, Rex Reynolds (ph), and I have not been able to confirm any fatalities with them yet. We have a number of agencies down here talking to news media, but the Huntsville police have not officially released any fatalities.

NGUYEN: OK. We're getting this word from the Huntsville school district. But Mr. Johnson, let me ask you this, because when we spoke with you earlier you did indeed say you believe the injuries are life threatening. Do you have a firm number on how many students were on board that bus?

JOHNSON: Right now I was given some information by one of the people that was doing the transporting. We had 23 students, total of 23 patients that were transported by ambulance.

Another 11 students were treated there on the scene. Their injuries were not so serious, but they were transported by what we call these little Huntsville city mini buses.

NGUYEN: So we're looking at a total of 34 students who were on the bus at this point is what you understand?

JOHNSON: That's my understanding, and I believe the driver.

Now, Layton law School System (ph) says that one of the employees at Layton Law (ph) says he did speak with the driver. So I don't know his condition yet. But I did not...

NGUYEN: But the driver did survive this accident is what you're telling us?

JOHNSON: That's my understanding. Now, looking at the bus, it looks like the bus plunged head first over the ground, about a 30- or 40-foot drop.

NGUYEN: Yes. That's the video that we're looking at, actually, and we're kind of looking at the back end of the bus, but when it widens out you can see that the front end of this bus sustained the brunt of the damage, it appears.

And Mr. Johnson, do you have a better grasp on what exactly happened? What would cause this bus to plunge off of an overpass 30 feet below to the highway?

JOHNSON: Well, right now that's what our traffic investigators are trying to determine. If the school bus was going to the Huntsville Center for Technology, it was traveling westbound on I-565.

And we really don't know. We try to control speed here in the city of Huntsville, but as you know, most interstates people don't obey the posted traffic laws. So we don't know whether or not the driver was having to take evasive action or not. That information has not been relayed to me at this time.

NGUYEN: I'm going to ask you to stand by for just a moment, because we want to bring in some sound from the Huntsville School District as we learn more on those injured and killed in this accident. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What we do know, speaking with the superintendent, that there are two confirmed student -- student deaths in this. She's at the hospital. She's been in the hospital ever since this happened and, you know, has been as best trying to stay in contact with the rest of us. But she's down there now, you know, talking, dealing with the families.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I understand the families there in the cafeteria are being briefed all at the same time. Is that kind of what's going on there?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not there, so I can't -- you know, I know that they were going to do something like this, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two confirmed fatalities. Any idea on the other kids on the bus, the extent of their injuries?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't have any information on the extent or severity. I mean, we had -- the number I was given was we had approximately 23 students that were transported to the hospital with various injuries.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I had also been told that the bus driver was also a fatality. Any information on that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I have no information on that. I haven't had that told to me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So right now we do have two confirmed fatalities?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are two student -- two student fatalities, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anything else?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, that's, I mean, it's fluid at this point. You know, you get bits and pieces of information. We're just -- like I said, we've got people at different sites, and the main focus now is just on dealing with the emotional grief with the families and with the students.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NGUYEN: Emotional grief to say the very least. Again, you heard there were two students killed in that bus accident after it plunged off of an overpass.

Just to clarify a question that was presented there in that piece, we understand from Wendall Johnson, the Huntsville Police Department, he says that the bus driver, in fact, did survive the accident.

So hopefully, we'll learn some more clues a little bit later today as to what exactly happened, what caused this bus full of children, we understand, 34 students in all, to plunge off of an overpass.

Kyra, 23 of those students were transported to the hospital; 11 of them treated on the scene. And, as you just heard there, two students did, indeed, die from this accident today. So very unfortunate.

PHILLIPS: All right. We continue to follow up, Betty, thanks.

Also straight ahead, for such a funny man, this really, really wasn't. Michael Richards' racist rant coming up in the newsroom.

Plus, our colleague, Don Lemon, joins me now from Chicago.

Don, you've got an exclusive interview later in the show with Senator Barack Obama.

LEMON: I certainly do. And you know what, Kyra? They keep calling him a Democratic Party's rock star, but is Barack Obama ready to take the lead, the lead vocals in Iraq? The NEWSROOM, in Chicago, is here to check it out, check out that speech. Stay with us. Don't go anywhere.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Well, you know what? He is young, he is smart, and he is practically irresistible. That's what people around the country will tell you. But what does Barack Obama stand for? It's not an idle question, since the first-term signaled he is considering a run for the presidency.

Within the hour Barack Obama will give a major speech. He's calling it his speech on foreign policy. We're here in Iraq (sic) to follow it.

But what do you know about Barack Obama? Well, here are some answers for you.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON (voice-over): Even in his own city...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's the guy that's going to help us get where we want to go.

LEMON: ... some are as uncertain about him...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think he may need a little bit more experience.

LEMON: ... as he is about a presidential run.

LEMON: Barack Obama.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No thoughts.

LEMON: You never heard of him?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, what is it?

LEMON (voice-over): Good question. What is it about him that has so many pining for an answer?

HERMENE HARTMAN, CHICAGO PUBLISHER: He has the intellect. He has the heart, he has the dedication.

SEN. BARACK OBAMA (D), ILLINOIS: A skinny guy from the south side with a funny name like Barack Obama.

LEMON: He's also had support from people who were there from the beginning when Obama was a community organizer, a civil rights attorney and a little-known Illinois state senator. People like Chicago publisher Hermene Hartman.

HARTMAN: What he said to me is, "I need your help. I've got to get $50,000."

LEMON (on camera): So this is the office?

(voice-over) According to Hartman that conversation took place one Friday evening in this office. The optimistic U.S. Senate wannabe had already begun organizing his campaign headquarters.

HARTMAN: I've got the office, the phones, and he had gotten all these things and I think probably without the real money for it.

LEMON: Hartman said she came up with the money by calling a prominent African-American Chicago businessman. It was the beginning of a Senate race that played out like a soap opera.

(on camera) Barack Obama credits Chicago with fortifying his racial identity, but support for a Senate run didn't come easy, even from those who had been considered his base African-Americans.

Just a few years before he ran for Congress against incumbent Bobby Rush. Obama admits in his new book that it was, quote, "an ill- conceived race, and I lost badly." Many in the community resented him.

ROLAND MARTIN, "CHICAGO DEFENDER": He ran for a congressional seat, very clear parameters against a popular African-American candidate who was a member of the Black Panthers.

LEMON: Chicago's oldest black newspaper, "The Defender's" publisher, Roland Martin, says that earlier congressional run severely dwindled Obama's base support until the U.S. Senate race.

The Democratic frontrunner, Blair Hall, lost his lead after allegations of abuse by his former wife. No charges were ever filed.

The popular, wealthy Republican candidate, Jack Ryan, succumbed to a sex scandal. Then the Republican Party brought in Alan Keyes, an outsider who many believed didn't stand a chance.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The next Senator from the state of Illinois, Barack Obama!

LEMON: He won and instantly became the great black hope of the Democratic Party. Writers like Mark Brown from the "Chicago Sun- Times" began it hint at a presidential run.

MARK BROWN, "CHICAGO SUN-TIMES": The night he was elected I believed that he had the potential to be the most important political figure to come out of Illinois since Abraham Lincoln.

LEMON: But some question his chances. Few Senators have ever won the White House. Plus, he's only been on the Hill for two years.

BROWN: He's going to have the problem of people who just think he's, you know, ambitious and over eager.

MARTIN: People are not picking apart where he stands, because he does not have a lengthy record on so many different issues, which is a good thing. But it also can very well be a bad thing when you have to make that move because people may say, "Yes, you're great. You sound wonderful. You look the part. You have the credentials. But do you have the chops to actually do it?"

LEMON: And then the there's the Hillary factor.

SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D), NEW YORK: ... New York. And God bless America.

MARTIN: What does she have in her favor? Money, people, infrastructure, and you cannot deny the reality that Bill Clinton is her husband.

LEMON: Regardless of Hillary or inexperience, in America it's up to the people.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know, some time it's not just all the experience. A lot of time it's what's in the heart. That's how this country was raised. This is where we came from. It is what was in our heart. We came in with not a whole lot of experience on how to make it work, and we figured it out. I think he's got it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: And Barack Obama says he will discuss all of this with his family over the holidays and then give us, the media, and the American public the answer after that. But many political watchers say the speech he's giving today on foreign policy may be, Kyra, some indication of what his plans are.

PHILLIPS: All right. We look forward, of course, to your interview with Barack Obama.

LEMON: Yes.

PHILLIPS: We have to explain to our viewers your connection to Chicago. You used to work there at an affiliate, and you had taken a pretty unique trip to Africa.

LEMON: I did.

PHILLIPS: And we've talked about it here on CNN, your trip to Malawi. And you just recently won a local Emmy for that.

LEMON: I did. I went to -- actually, it was a trip to Malawi, to Rwanda, and to Barcelon (ph), Tanzania, and to Kenya to do an AIDS documentary. And, yes, I won two Emmys for it. So I'm very excited.

There's one right there, so, total of three. Total of three Emmys, though, Kyra. I was very excited and very surprised. And it was a nice way to come back to Chicago and see my old pals. And, you know, there you go.

PHILLIPS: Well, we look forward to the interview with Barack Obama.

LEMON: Yes, we do look forward to that. That should happen some time in our 4 a.m. -- rather our 3 p.m. hour, 3 p.m. Eastern. I'm in central, so I'm getting it all, you know, mixed up. Three p.m. Eastern, central, you know the whole thing.

PHILLIPS: That's all right. We'll talk soon. Thanks, Don.

LEMON: All right, Kyra. See you. PHILLIPS: Well, Uncle Sam wants you. As Iraq boils over, one congressman drags out the "d" word, draft. The NEWSROOM's not dodging this issue. Stick around for more.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL RODRIGUEZ, COMEDIAN: Freedom of speech has its limitations, and I think Michael Richards found those limitations.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Loose lips sink ships and sometimes careers. Let's just say it will take a lot of Junior Mints to clear the air after Kramer runs amok. Fallout from the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: After 14 years, silicone breast implants are back. And they were taken off the market in 1992 after some women complained that they leaked and had made them sick.

But the FDA says that there's no real evidence linking the implants with connective tissue diseases or cancer. Two companies are now approved to market silicone for women over the age of 21.

Let's get back to the newsroom. Betty Nguyen working details on a developing story -- Betty.

NGUYEN: Yes, we're continuing to follow this school bus accident in Huntsville, Alabama. So far we understand two students have died in that accident.

Here's a picture of the bus involved. And what happened earlier today is this bus plunged off of an overpass. The front end of this bus sustained the brunt of the damage. That overpass allowed it to fall 30 feet to the highway below. This was just an awful accident and, as you know, students and school buses do not have seat belts. So that can account for some of the more serious injuries.

And of those two students have been killed in this accident, 23 of them, Kyra, have been transported to local hospitals. Eleven were treated on the scene. What we do know is that the bus driver did, indeed, survive this accident, according to Huntsville police.

Don't know exactly why this bus plunged off of an overpass, but obviously it was a deadly mistake. Two students killed so far. We're waiting on more information as to the injuries of the other students on board. Again, 34 of them in all on board that bus. They're from Lee High School and where they were going, we understand, was to the Huntsville Center for Technology to take some classes. This is a normal routine. The Center for Technology is only about four to eight miles away from Lee High School.

So it's not that far of a drive, but something obviously very unfortunate happened along the way. The bus that you see right there plunged off of an overpass some 30 feet to the ground. And as a result, two students have been killed, 23 of them transported to a local hospital and we're still waiting on more word as to the extent of those injuries.

Kyra, we're going to be talking to a local affiliate within the rest of this hour to determine exactly what more information we can provide and gather from what we know so far of this accident.

PHILLIPS: All right, we'll follow up, thanks, Betty.

Let's get to Wall Street now where a number of big corporate tie- ups are stealing the spotlight today. Susan Lisovicz at the New York Stock Exchange with all the details. Susan?

(BUSINESS HEADLINES)

PHILLIPS: A weekend show at a Los Angeles comedy club was anything but funny. Michael Richards, the guy who played Kramer on "Seinfeld" was on stage at the Laugh Factory when he unleashed a bit of a bizarre and revolting tirade filled with curses and racial insults after being heckled. You can hear it in a clip from TMZ.com but we warned, you will be shocked and pretty disturbed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL RICHARDS, COMEDIAN: He's a (BLEEP). He's a (BLEEP). A (BLEEP), look there's a (BLEEP). Oooh, ooh. All right, you see. This shock you. It shocks you. You see what's buried beneath you stupid (BLEEP)?

DARRYL PITTS, AUDIENCE MEMBER: I'm upset, but more than being upset, I feel like something has to be done about it. He threw those words around very cavalierly. He mentioned hanging upside down from a tree. I mean, if you think about Mel Gibson and what he said and then you put that in the context with this, it's very upsetting.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: With more on Michael Richards' rant, we're joined by Harvey Levin. He's managing editor of TMZ.com. Harvey, what was he thinking?

HARVEY LEVIN, MANAGING EDITOR, TMZ.COM: You know Kyra, I can't tell you what he was thinking. I mean, clearly, this was, this was a comedy skit for crying out loud. And the guy in the audience was kind of having fun with him. They had been doing it earlier in the evening and he simply said, my friend doesn't think you're funny. And it just started this unbelievable racist rant and it came out of the blue and it lingered for three minutes.

PHILLIPS: All right, you know I have to ask this question, I'm just thinking about Mel Gibson and when he made the racial slurs. He was intoxicated and next thing you know, he was in rehab. Does Michael Richards have something going on with drugs or alcohol? Do you think he was high?

LEVIN: I don't know. I know this sounds crazy, but in a way I hope so because I hope he wasn't doing that when he had his wits about him. He hasn't said one way or the other yet. So I don't know what he's going to do. I mean, Jerry Seinfeld has now come out and said, look, he's sick over what happened. So, I think that the snowball is kind of rolling down the hill now and he's going to have to do something. What that something is, I don't know. He's going to have to make some kind of statement about this.

PHILLIPS: Well let's talk about the ultimate spin. Why haven't we heard from him yet? You would think his publicist or whomever would be right out there saying, whoa, here's the apology or here's what happened or he's got issues.

LEVIN: It's pretty fresh right now. I mean, we just posted this about four hours ago. So I'm sure they're trying to figure out the course of action. Usually there are other people involved than just the celebrity and my guess is they're trying to figure out some kind of a battle plan here, but they do need one.

PHILLIPS: So how bad were the hecklers in the crowd?

LEVIN: They weren't. I mean, that's the thing. This was a guy who came with a bunch of people. It was a birthday party. There was banter earlier in the evening, but it was just kind of this guy saying, you know, my friend doesn't think you're funny. I mean, it was from out of the blue. That's why, Kyra, you heard those gasps because nobody ever saw this coming. It just happened.

PHILLIPS:: Any legal reprucussions. You got the attorney background, as well. Could anything happen with that legally?

LEVIN: You know, it seems like everybody tries to do that. Whenever there is a flare up like this and I suppose there is a legal theory called intentional infliction of emotional distress. I don't know whether this guy is game for something like that, I heard rumblings that he's looking to see if he does have any legal options, but I think the bigger issue right now is just how Michael Richards is going to handle this. It's become a big thing in L.A. There is going to be a protest at the Laugh Factory in about an hour. So, he's got some pretty big problems.

PHILLIPS: There are going to be protests outside the Laugh Factory because he performed the next night, right?

LEVIN: Right. And you know, I think what happened is he said it, he regretted it, but he never knew there was any kind of video. We turned this video up in the wee hours of the morning today. And I think until he knew there was video it is the kind of thing, oh, somebody explains it and gets lost in translation, but there's nothing like a video staring you in the face to kind of bring reality home to roost.

PHILLIPS: Is the Laugh Factory, anybody there making a statement coming out and saying, well we didn't think it was that bad and that's why we let him perform the next night or we're just trying to blow it over? LEVIN: That's a really good question. I haven't heard anything like that, but you're right, that's actually a great question to see you know why they did invite him back because you could see from the reaction in the crowd that people were horrified, they left, they were disgusted. And he came back, so, that's interesting, Kyra. I think we'll check it out.

PHILIPS: All right. Oh, good, let me know what happens, will you?

LEVIN: I will.

PHILLIPS: Thanks, Harvey. Talk to you again.

LEVIN: See you.

PHILLIPS: It is supposed to be America's toughest lock up, supermax, home to many of the nation's most notorious convicts but as we reported last week the Alcatraz of the Rockies as it's been known, may be super lax when it comes to keeping tabs on its inmates. Drew Griffin joins me now from Washington with details on a new report tracking security problems at Supermax. What did you find out, Drew?

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We first discussed this on your show last week, Kyra, and just a couple -- actually, the day after that, the attorney general of the United States met with Colorado Senator Ken Salazar about improving security, but I want to show you first why those improvements are needed. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GRIFFIN: Here in the shadows of the Colorado Rockies are many of our worst-known terrorists. Ramsey Yousef the first World Trade Center bomber, 9/11 wanna be Zacarias Moussaoui, the shoebomber Richard Reid, the Olympic bomber Eric Rudolph, the Unibomber, one of the Oklahoma city bombers, all locked up for life in the nation's toughest prison, Supermax.

Almost every hour is spent in these cells, eat here, shower here. Solid doors and narrow windows make it even hard to see another inmate. Yet official documents show the prison is understaffed, phone calls are not always monitored, neither the mail. Supermax is in danger of becoming superlax.

Who says so? The Justice Department itself. Last month the inspector general said the Bureau of Prisons is, "unable to effectively monitor the mail of terrorists and other high-risk inmates in order to detect and prevent terrorism and criminal activities." One criminal case in point, the 18th street gang marks its turf and runs drug sales near downtown Los Angeles.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What has happened is that every street corner now has the gang.

GRIFFIN: The gangs extort kickbacks, they call it taxes or rent from the street dealers. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You better pay your taxes, pal, or else you're going to get killed or you're not going to deal dope in my town.

GRIFFIN: The man running the drug gang, the FBI says it's Reuben Castro from his cell at Supermax.

GRIFFIN (on-camera): And even though he's behind bars and away for life, he's still holds that power?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Most definite.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRIFFIN: Hard to believe, Kyra, that a gang member can continue running his criminal enterprise from inside Supermax by getting these messages out -- even harder to believe, what we were told that messages coming out of there written in Arabic or phone calls from some of these convicted terrorists may not be monitored by any guards.

According to the meeting between Colorado Senator Salazar and Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, again, which happened in this town on Friday, the staffing will improve, but more importantly, the attorney general has vowed to visit Supermax to see first hand what the security concerns are there and to try to improve the mail and the phone call monitoring coming out of the Alcatraz of the Rockies.

PHILLIPS: So, basically, terrorists could be writing letters, having phone conversations in Arabic and nobody understands what they're saying and they could organize some act of terrorism straight out of Supermax?

GRIFFIN: That's exactly right. It wasn't until last year that this prison actually hired an Arabic-speaking person to look at that stuff and what we're hearing from the guards union is quite frequently these guards that are assigned to monitor the communications are pulled off to do regular guard duty.

So a lot of this stuff coming in and and out of the prison not monitored. You saw the case of the gang member doing his drug deals. There's another case where two members of the Arian Brotherhood were actually were ordering killings, sending out hit lists from that prison and two people wound up dead. So, it is very concerning.

PHILLIPS: So why not stop the mail?

GRIFFIN: Well, they have rights. These are convicted people who are being held among the rights of any prisoner in the United States of America. There has been a push trying to limit at least these Arian Brotherhood people from getting any communications in or out. But they were sentenced to life in prison, not the death penalty and, as such, their attorneys are saying, listen, if you put somebody away for life in prison and have no communication that is virtually a death sentence. So, they're trying to argue against that. But, right now you would think there would be common sense solution to this to at least look at the mail or listen to the phone calls. It's not being done.

PHILLIPS: Yes, doesn't really make sense. We'll look forward to the follow-up. Thanks, Drew.

Who has to leave and who gets to stay? A 7-year-old boy complicates the debate over illegal immigrants. He was born in America and his mother wasn't. (INAUDIBLE) in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: The CNN NEWSROOM is live in Chicago today and here in Chicago people are taking sides over the complicated case of one illegal immigrant. CNN's Jonathan Freed with Elvira Arellano's story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JONATHAN FREED, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Elvira Arellano had been sharing a bed with her 7-year-old son for three months. Arellano is in the country illegally. She's holed up this modest Chicago church at Alberto Methodist, claiming the ancient right of sanctuary trying to avoid deportation to Mexico.

She was ordered to leave the United States in mid-August after being discovered working on a cleaning crew at O'Hare International Airport using a false Social Security number. She's now considered a fugitive from the law.

ELVIRA ARELLANO, ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT: I am not a criminal. I am coming here to the United States for work. I'm paying my taxes, I work for my son.

FREED: In fact, her son Saul is also working for her. He was born in Chicago and is an American citizen. The second grader is being led on a political tour from Washington to Mexico City by Arellano's supporters, who say he represents millions of children of illegal immigrants facing a choice. Stay and risk losing your parents to deportation or give up the benefits of your American birth right and move away.

SAUL ARELLANO, ELVIRA'S SON: To tell President Bush to stop the recent deportations to my mom and other families could stay here.

FREED: Saul recently delivered that message in person to Mexican lawmakers who passed a resolution urging Washington to help people like Arellano and her son.

E. ARELLANO: President Bush say the law is broken. I am not broken the law.

FREED: U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement says it will arrest and deport Arellano at what it calls an appropriate time and place. Despite her claim of sanctuary, the law gives immigration agents the right to enter church property and make an arrest.

Arellano was found working at the airport in 2002, but managed to delay deportation with political help because her son was receiving care for a medical condition, which has since improved.

Opinion is mixed about whether she's allowing her son to be exploited now.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Whatever it takes them to do what they need to do.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Using your child to do that doesn't sit well with me.

FREED: For now, Arellano has the bed to herself and a brief phone call to Mexico is all the time she'll spend with her son right now. She hopes they won't end up switching places permanently.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Very interesting. CNN's Jonathan Freed joins us now. Jonathan, very interesting. I remember back this summer and spring, hundreds of thousands of people right here at Grant Park in Chicago immigration march. How is this story playing here with her being holed up in the church for quite a long time?

FREED: She is somebody that has gotten quite a bit of publicity in town for doing what she's doing. She was in that march. She's quite respected by people who are out there pushing for immigration reform, but it runs hot and cold because at the beginning people sort of sat up and took notice because she was claiming sanctuary, which is a somewhat unusual thing. But you talk to different people now that her son has been out there having been in Mexico last week lobbying, some people are starting to step back, including some people in the media here saying, OK, we get the point, but maybe you shouldn't be pushing your son too much.

LEMON: Right, and here's the interesting thing, she's claiming sanctuary in a church because it's the church and she thinks that she is safe there. But according to immigration officials, does she really even need to do that at this point?

FREED: No, not according to ICE. We have spoken to them multiple times including as recently as today, and they have basically said directly and reading between the lines, look, there are 600,000 immigration fugitives out there in the country and, basically, get in line. There are others that have been out there longer and who are considered dangerous that they have to target first.

LEMON: Yes and the interesting thing is she's getting by on donations because obviously she can't afford to live without having a job and living in the church. Thank you very much, Jonathan.

FREED: Thank you sir, nice to have you here.

LEMON: Thank you, it's good to be here. Don't forget our exclusive interview plus Barack Obama gives a speech on foreign policy, coming up in the CNN NEWSROOM in about an hour.

PHILLIPS: All right, sounds good, Don. Well, safer than Baghdad? What city isn't? Would you believe Fallujah? Two years after a major military offensive in the heart of Iraq's Sunni triangle, the NEWSROOM checks it out.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.voxant.com