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CNN LARRY KING LIVE
Interview With Family of Ron Goldman; Interview With Alec Baldwin
Aired November 20, 2006 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
O.J. SIMPSON, FMR ATHLETE: Everybody been covered in blood.
KING: Tonight exclusive, O.J. Simpson's controversial book and TV show, both canceled. We've got the first reaction from murder victim Ron Goldman's father, Fred, and sister, Kim, five days after they told us how disgusted they were by Simpson's "If I Did It" deal.
And then Alec Baldwin. A rare one-on-one with the intense outspoken actor.
ALEC BALDWIN, ACTOR: Hit the bricks pal and beat it because you are going out.
KING: We'll talk about his bitter divorce with Kim Basinger that's made headlines all over the tabloids. Plus, his take on O.J., on Seinfeld's star Michael Richard's racist rant in an L.A. comedy club, and a lot more because he's very (INAUDIBLE). Alec Baldwin is next on LARRY KING LIVE.
KING: You all now know that FOX has pulled and will not show the tape of the O.J. Simpson and they ordered their publishing company, HarperCollins, not to must publish it. And we welcome back to LARRY KING LIVE, it seems like just yesterday they were all here, it all started here with them. Fred Goldman, whose son was murdered alongside O.J. Simpson's ex-wife, Nicole Brown Simpson. Simpson was acquitted, of course, criminally. And Kim Goldman, Ron's sister.
Fred, what do you make of it?
FRED GOLDMAN, RON'S FATHER: I think -- I think that today is amazing. It took the voices of people throughout this country, newscasters, newspapers, outraged people all over this country, yelling and screaming, and telling FOX, telling Regan Books this is disgusting and they finally got the message.
KING: It all started here, Kim. I guess this was the first appearance that night; right after the announcement was made of the publication. Did you think it would have any impact?
KIM GOLDMAN, RON'S SISTER: I thought that the outcry would be as it was. I wasn't expecting it to be as tremendous. We've been receiving letters from all the victims' organizations, protest letters, all their petitions that they've been signing. Everybody took a real hard stand against this. And I'm glad the News Corp made a decision that protects victim's rights and the memories of Ron and Nicole.
KING: We wrote that Website on this show. How many responses did you get?
F. GOLDMAN: We had...
K. GOLDMAN: Roughly 40 -- up to over 46,000, I think.
F. GOLDMAN: Over 46,000 now. But we had close to 20,000 in less than 24 hours.
KING: Why do you think they capitulated -- Kim.
K. GOLDMAN: The people spoke out and the people said we're your consumers and this is not OK, we don't want to hear someone talk about how to kill somebody, this is not what we will watch, we won't buy your product. I know that people had been boycotting Amazon and Barnes and Noble and all the bookstores and they were very clear that we will not participate any longer.
KING: Rupert Murdoch issued apologies to you, to both of you and to the Browns, as well.
F. GOLDMAN: Right.
KING: Did you hear personally from him?
F. GOLDMAN: No. No. It was actually read to me by a friend of mine who saw it on the Internet.
K. GOLDMAN: Yeah, it was...
KING: So, he didn't call you?
F. GOLDMAN: No.
K. GOLDMAN: No. And I'm glad. I mean, again, this is -- they did the right thing and to take responsibility for the havoc that has come about in the last week. We shouldn't have gotten -- we shouldn't have been in this place.
F. GOLDMAN: Should never have been here to begin with.
KING: O.J.'s attorney, Yale Galanter, told CNN correspondent Jason Carroll that compensation's already made in the form of payments, Simpson's been paid in full and that Simpson is totally indifferent about the fact that it's been canceled.
F. GOLDMAN: Well, first of all, that's not true -- hasn't been pat in full.
(CROSSTALK) But he has been -- we know. He's been paid a substantial portion of what his agreement was. Is he indifferent? I doubt that very much. He missed his chance to be in the limelight. He missed his chance to be on television and shoot his mouth off. He missed his chance to be in the public view, which is incredibly important to him. I don't believe for a minute he's indifferent.
KING: Kim, if he's been paid aren't you entitled to that based on the results of the civil suit?
K. GOLDMAN: Absolutely. And you can bet that we will take every step that we can to recover those funds. It was not conveyed in an honest fashion and we will continue to pursue justice on behalf of Ron and Nicole.
KING: Now hold it. You are saying that the money was given...
K. GOLDMAN: Well, it was contracted through third party and the people that he contracted with knew that he was evading the judgment and...
F. GOLDMAN: As did, as Kim is saying, as did, without question, Regan Books, know, they weren't making a check out to him. So, they all were part of this effort to avoid the judgment, which is, again, pretty disgusting.
KING: FOX Legal, they own HarperCollins, and Judith Regan works for them.
F. GOLDMAN: Correct.
K. GOLDMAN: Right.
KING: They let that go that they would allow a check that they know is a civil judgment against him -- you can do that?
K. GOLDMAN: I think in their minds, it's not their responsibility to honor the judgment. But, I think we said to you that, you know, a whole country knows that there's an outstanding judgment and anybody that gets into business with him knows that if they convey money not to him that it's in an effort to not honor the judgment.
F. GOLDMAN: Absolutely.
KING: I'm told that he said the money will go to the kids' education. Meaning his kids.
F. GOLDMAN: Sure. Sure. Do you believe that? Not me. I don't believe it. I think this is just a way...
KING: Even then, he still owes it to you.
F. GOLDMAN: Yeah, the bottom line is, you know, he's responsible for paying for his children's upbringing, et cetera, et cetera, financial, et cetera, not the victims of his murders. K. GOLDMAN: And I think for him to say that he's indifferent, I think, is...
KING: The lawyers said he is.
K. GOLDMAN: Yeah, but I think, you know, for him who thinks that the country still, you know, is in awe of him and they love him and he gets praised everywhere he went, I think the country really spoke out and said you are a, you know (INAUDIBLE)...
F. GOLDMAN: Scum bag, nicely put.
KING: Aren't you -- couldn't you sue FOX and them for paying third party?
F. GOLDMAN: You know what, I don't know. We have a terrific young attorney and a couple of other gentlemen involved in this thing and they're absolutely hound dogs on this thing and they're as outraged as we are and we're going to pursue every avenue.
KING: We know with today's world of the Internet and the like, someone's going to probably print that book, right?
K. GOLDMAN: Yeah. And I definitely think it's going to end up in somebody's hands and we're going to read excerpts about it and it's going to be on the black-market somewhere. But, I think if nothing else, this -- what happened in the last couple days, that the fact that the country got behind what we did and once again supported our efforts to send a message that is not -- that this is no appropriate. So if anyone wants to enter into an agreement with him again and we find out about it, we're not going away. I mean, bit this is an important...
F. GOLDMAN: We're not going to go away, absolutely.
KING: Think the table being sewn somewhere?
F. GOLDMAN: Again, it's the same -- same situation. Whatever he does to glorify his crime is not going to be well received, certainly by us, and I don't think it's going to be well received by anyone in this country.
KING: I asked you the last time you were here if you would watch it and you said you didn't know, because obviously it's a part of you. Would you watch it now if you had your hands on it?
F. GOLDMAN: I have the same exact feeling. He makes me -- he is repulsive to me. Do I want to listen to his bull for any amount of time? There isn't anything that comes out of his mouth that isn't filth and isn't lies. So do I honestly believe there's anything of that value in anything he's going to say? No.
KING: So even if he were describing how your brother died, you wouldn't want to know that?
K. GOLDMAN: I don't like that I have to make the decision. I don't like that I am having to choose whether I have to listen to him talk about how he stabbed Ron and Nicole to death. But the truth is, we have always said that whatever we endure now is never going to measure to what Ron and Nicole suffered the night that they were killed, so I need to know. I don't know. And I hope that we don't -- are not faced with this again.
F. GOLDMAN: Yeah, additionally, can we be sure that anything he says is accurate anyway? I don't know.
KING: Life goes on.
F. GOLDMAN: It does.
K. GOLDMAN: Yeah. It's unfortunate that this is part of it though.
KING: You have a beautiful little boy.
K. GOLDMAN: Thank you.
KING: That's Ron's nephew, right?
K. GOLDMAN: It is Ron's nephew, thank you.
KING: Thank you, Kim.
K. GOLDMAN: Thank you, Larry.
F. GOLDMAN: Thank you.
KING: Thank you, Fred. Appreciate it.
F. GOLDMAN: And can we say, I think on behalf of Kim and I and our family and all the victims in this country, we want to say thank you. Thank you to everyone in this country who raised their voice and stood up for the right thing and made certain that a corporation the size of News Corp wasn't and won't make money on this nightmare. Thank all of the folk in this country for standing up for the right thing.
KING: Fred Goldman and Kim Goldman.
Alec Baldwin is next. Don't go away.
KING: He's an actor, political activist, the family is incredible. the Baldwin's are everywhere. He's star of NBC's new sitcom "30 Rock." He was nominated for Best Supporting Actor Oscar for 2003's "The Cooler," he's also earned multiple Emmy and Golden Globe nominations.
Thanks for coming, Alec.
BALDWIN: Thanks for having me. KING: Always good to see you. Let's -- we got so many bases to cover. Couple of things that are in the news. What do you make of the thing we just discussed, News Corps' decision not to publish?
BALDWIN: I mean, it seems complicated on one hand and simple on another, which is, I mean who really cares about Simpson at this point at all? You know, his story or what he has to say or -- I just think that it's -- I mean on one hand, if he was truly innocent and had made that pledge to spend the rest of his life seeking the killers of his wife, or killer, and he hasn't made good on that -- to me it was like, who would really, really care to hear anymore from this guy.
KING: Are you surprised they pulled it?
BALDWIN: No, I thought they should have pulled, not only because of the outrage factor, but I do believe in that kind of boycotting process where people who...
KING: It's American.
BALDWIN: Yeah, I think it's very American to say...
KING: Don't buy it.
BALDWIN: Yeah, just don't get involved in that.
KING: On to Michael Richards' story, what do you make of that rant?
BALDWIN: I -- I don't know -- I have to think sometimes that people in that line of work, that maybe they think that that was funny, maybe he thought he was joking. And obviously it wasn't funny, but it's just breathtaking to me to see in this business how some people -- I mean, in a single day you just flush yourself right down the toilet.
KING: Yeah, let's watch this. Watch your career end. It's wild. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL RICHARDS, COMEDIAN: He's a nigger. He's a nigger! He's nigger!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh my god.
RICHARDS: A nigger! Look, there's a nigger! Ooo. Ooo.
All right, you see, it shocks you. It shocks you. You see what they (INAUDIBLE) stupid mother (BLEEP).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: And by the way, Michael Richards did apologize tonight. It'll be shown later on the "David Letterman Show" and Seinfeld was on and then he apologized. Think that'll work? BALDWIN: (LAUGHING) I really don't know. I don't see how that could work. I just think to myself, what was he thinking? You know, maybe he thought he was in the sanctuary of a comedy club. I try to think what were they thinking? I'm thinking, was Michael Richardson -- I mean, you've had every person on the planet sit opposite you at this table and you've sat with a lot of great comic talent. And I have to think that sometimes people, when they're on a movie set or they're in a TV studio or they're in a comedy club they think that anything goes, that a lot of the laws of probity and decency don't count.
I mean, I've been on sets of films and television show where's people are very loose. You know, they want to diffuse the tension; they want to keep things loose. There's a lot of, you know, kind of banter that people have that's pretty vulgar and can be pretty obscene on a movie set, I think they can be really kind of crude to be funny and to break the tension. And, but this guy, I mean, I think he just jumped right off the cliff.
KING: But we are a for giving people, sometimes, aren't we?
BALDWIN: Yeah, I think, I mean, I think you want to forgive people and you don't want to, you know, torture the guy, but I just can't think that it's going to help his career.
KING: What's the status of "30 Rock"?
BALDWIN: We're going to find out soon. We're on for another -- I think we're on for the rest of this year and we have these remaining episodes this year. And whether we get picked up again, I don't know. I hope it does get picked up, because it's a job I've really have grown to love. I really love doing this show.
KING: Fun show.
KING: In addition to starring in "30 Rock," you've got roles in current movies "The Departed," which is sensational, "Running with Scissors," and you're in the soon-to-be released "Good Shepherd," directed by Robert De Niro.
BALDWIN: By Bob De Niro, yeah.
KING: I saw the first ads for it today and Angelina Jolie and Matt Damon. What's it like to work for him as a director? It's his first directing, isn't it?
BALDWIN: No, he had directed "Bronx Tale," years ago.
KING: Oh, he did that one? I knew he...
BALDWIN: He did "Bronx Tale," he directed, which was his other film, he directed. And then he didn't direct again for, I guess, it's like 12 or 13 years. I was quite a number of years. And as I was telling somebody today, that I ran into, we were discussing this film. I said it's very strange to do a movie and the director comes to give you the notes and the person that shows up is Bob De Niro. You know, and that's the director everyday. It was very interesting.
And Bob is a lovely guy. He's a very thoughtful -- I can honestly say that in the work that I've done in films where I've been able to work with some great, great people, I mean, actors as well as designers and musicians and so forth, I've worked with so many wonderful people. You know what it's like. I mean, the great joy for me is who I get to meet. And Bob De Niro, he's such an artist. He was so painstaking about everything. It was really wonderful.
KING: You've made so many great films. You know? "Hunt for Red October," "Batman."
BALDWIN: No, I wasn't in "Batman."
KIND: No, not "Batman," "Shadow."
BALDWIN: No, "Batman" was somebody I used to know.
KING: You were The Shadow.
KING: "Shadow," sorry. I meant to say "Shadow."
KING: A recent "L.A. Times" article about our guest said that, "These days if a part calls for someone to play brazen, caustic, or swagger, in short, a man's man, one actor has a lock on that role." It's Alec Baldwin. And when we come back, we'll talk about love and marriage. Don't go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID LETTERMAN, LATE SHOW: Why don't you explain exactly what happened for the folks who may not know?
RICHARDS: I lost my temper on stage. I was at a comedy club trying to do my act and I got heckled and I -- I took it badly and went into a rage. I'm really busted up over there this and I'm very, very sorry to those people in the audience, the blacks, the Hispanics, whites, everyone that was there that took the brunt of that anger and hate and rage and how it came through and I'm concerned about more hate and more rage and more anger...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (SINGING) Bet you he weaves, bet you he sews, bet you they've made me a closet of clothes. God.
BALDWIN: What tragedy happened in your life that you insist upon punishing yourself with all of this mediocrity? UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What? Because I'm eating a turkey sub?
BALDWIN: Your turkey sub, your clothes, the fact that a woman of your resources and position lives like a boxcar hobo or maybe it's the fact that while I'm saying all of this you have a piece of lettuce stuck in your hair.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Alec Baldwin, our special guest. Great to have him here. You've been a tabloid target for years. Do you read articles about you? Like, when you pass a newspaper stand, you read Baldwin, do you read it?
BALDWIN: You know I didn't used to, but I learned in New York, I mean, you know what New York is like, I learned in New York that if you don't, you're kind of behind the eight ball, you're a little behind the beat there. You know?
I'd be walking down the street in New York and some doorman would say to me, "Hey Alec, how are you doing? Good to see you, man. Sorry what I read in the paper today." And I'd be like "What?" And then the FedEx guy would be parked at the stop light and he'd be like, "Hey Alec, too bad why read in the 'Post, guy. I'm, sorry. Worry what I read. Just tough day for you, huh?" So, I use to not read it, and now I do.
KING: Much about a tumultuous marriage. How -- there's some things you probably can't talk about. How did it get out of hand? How did it get public?
BALDWIN: Well, I think -- I think that rather than speak about the specifics of my own situation, I'm writing this book for St. Martin's Press which is really more about the dynamic of divorce in general.
KING: When will it be out?
BALDWIN: In the Spring.
KING: You'll be back?
BALDWIN: (INAUDIBLE) by all means, I'd love to. Thank you. And I think that, you know, very often you see case in which someone who is very malleable, shall we say, someone who is very suggestible, have attorneys who they just know how to play that game. You and I both know from friends of ours and people you've dealt with in the Hollywood community that you get divorced and these lawyers, this is their gift. This is their skill.
KING: They insight it?
BALDWIN: Well, they get one person and they know how to play them, and they know how to get them going and their ultimate goal is that you never speak to the other person anymore except through lawyers. The lawyers become the messengers and distort that message and stoke the flames of the problem.
And I think that in many cases, my own may or may not be like this, we'll, you know, will want to examine it when I have perspective, but you find that there are people who they will come at you a certain way in the proceedings and they just expect you to cave and they expect you to walk away and give up.
And I've seen many, many men, in particular, who they gave up. I'd be sitting in the first class cabin of a plane, I'd be in a bar, I'd be in a restaurant, I'd be somewhere, I'd be in a line at the baseball game, and I became kind of, you know, a lightning rod for this issue and men would come up to me and say, you know, I fought and fought and fought and I spend hundreds of thousands of dollars and countless, you know, units of my own psychic energy on this whole thing and then I finally quit and I would be heartbroken. I didn't quit.
KING: How did you explain to people who don't know it, how tough a time divorce can be? How devastating?
BALDWIN: I wanted to die.
KING: You wanted to die?
BALDWIN: I wanted to die, yeah. I went to bed for -- I mean, I'm writing this book because I went to bed for about a year, maybe less, maybe more, probably a year. When I was about a year-and-a-half into the proceedings and I saw the turn they were taking and I saw that no matter what I did, and when I saw that no matter what goodwill I showed, when I saw that no matter how much conciliation I brought to the table and how much I had hoped for on the other side, when I saw that on the other side the attorneys were calling all the shots and they were just going to run this thing right into the ground. They didn't care. Mediating and coming to any kinds of agreements that was just not on their radar at all.
KING: But you were once -- and this can happen. We'll do this hypothetically. You're crazy about a woman.
KING: What happens when it ends? You're not crazy anymore? What? She certainly is beautiful as ever, she's...
BALDWIN: Well, no, no, no, I met someone and I was in love with them and I got married. But then I think when people are married, people change. I mean, you're married now, right?
BALDWIN: Is this your first marriage?
BALDWIN: Right. So things change. You have that experience.
KING: Things change, yeah.
BALDWIN: Things change in terms of people want different things. I think another thing that's interesting is also people are older. I didn't get married when I was 20. I didn't get married when I was 25. I got married when I was 35. And by the time you're 40 you begin to have much more of a crystal clear picture of what you like in life and what you want and what you don't want. And when you're married to somebody and they don't want what you want, you become a little more entrapable about it. You sit there and say well I know what I like and I know what makes me happy and when two people have divergent paths.
But when I thought that everything was really -- when I thought that -- I thought I was a good person and when I thought that everything I could bring to bear on the event wasn't going to make any difference, I thought, I don't want to live anymore, because it was all about -- and this is last thing I'll say about this, it was all about when you have a child involved, I mean, as a man, most men that I know that are good men, that are decent men, you're going to chew your way through a concrete wall to access your child. You want to be with a child.
BALDWIN: And that's all I wanted. I never asked for anything other than that. And that was made almost impossible for me. And I think arbitrarily.
KING: You mean you couldn't have joint custody?
BALDWIN: Well no, I mean, everything I had to do -- get, I had to fight for. No one ever turned to me and said "let's work this out." The answer to every request was, "No. No. No. No. No." So, it was just a fight for everything. That was exhausting.
KING: Now it's OK with the child?
BALDWIN: Everything is -- you know, I mean, I have what I have now. I have the orders that I have now. I mean, that...
KING: How old is the child?
BALDWIN: She's 11. Yeah, she's 11.
KING: You get to see her as much?
BALDWIN: Oh, yeah, I have my whole set of orders. But it...
KING: What was the affect on her?
BALDWIN: I think it was probably tough. I think it was tough to have two well-known parents and you go to school and maybe somebody's elbowing somebody in their ribs and saying, you know, "There's so and so whose parents are doing this" or she sees it on TV or she reads about it. I'm deeply, deeply saddened that she had to go through it. But again, I had to ask myself, what's the alternative? You know, the fight became the fight and it became a public fight because I wouldn't give up and I'm glad I didn't give up.
KING: We an e-mail question from Kathleen in Tacoma, Washington. Are you serious with someone special? If so, do you plan to marry again?
BALDWIN: Oh, wow, you're talking agent my love life now?
KING: That's what the question is.
BALDWIN: It's tough, Larry. It's tough. It's so tough.
KING: You don't have anyone? You're not in love with anyone?
BALDWIN: Well, I mean, I was with somebody, you know, for quite a while recently. And you know, it always is a very halting, because I travel so much to come here. I come here twice a month to see my daughter. I travel to Los Angeles every other weekend to see my daughter during school.
KING: You don't bring her out to New York?
BALDWIN: It's tough to find somebody that can make that work. So, it's been -- I mean, I'm single now. I had been with somebody, a woman named Nicole Seidel, for a long, long time. Who is a lovely woman and..
KING: What happened?
BALDWIN: It's just been tough.
KING: Talk to Larry.
BALDWIN: (LAUGHING) Talk to Larry. It's been -- it's been tough. Maybe I'm not the easiest person to live with, Larry. I don't know.
KING: You mean maybe it's you in.
BALDWIN: In n. part, it could be me. I have to learn to admit that. You know, maybe you -- see, before you got married to your lovely wife and you have kids again, right?
KING: Yeah, two little boys.
BALDWIN: You have two? How old are you sons?
KING: Seven-and-a-half and 6 1/2.
BALDWIN: I was thinking you and I could have lived together. We could have been roommates and had the breakfast club that you belong to. I wanted to be counted in on that.
KING: You came by sometimes.
BALDWIN: I'll came by once. I wanted to be a part of that.
KING: Any time
BALDWIN: I want the whole Neil Simon kind of a lifestyle with you.
KING: We'll be back with Alec Baldwin. His next will be the "Good Shepherd" directed by Robert De Niro, coming out in December. And by the way, Mr. De Niro will finally be on this program in connection with that film, along with Angelina Jolie and Matt Damon. And maybe we'll have Baldwin come too. Don't go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: Listen, I know some influential people in your business. Is there any way that they could sort of get in contact with you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nope.
BALDWIN: Hey, don't go yet.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don't touch, Charlie. Those guys know how to turn wives into widows.
BALDWIN: I mean it when I say "good." You should be making records, play in big clubs. You should be in the movies.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: We're back with Alec Baldwin. What kind of father are you?
BALDWIN: Well, I think I'm like a lot of men I know. I'm kind of a slave to my daughter whenever my daughter's around.
KING: Tell me about it.
BALDWIN: When my daughter's around I'm just...
KING: ... She owns you?
BALDWIN: Yes. I mean, I just do whatever she tells me to do. The deal I have with her, we'll go to the store -- I mean, I joke with her, I say we'll go to the store. She'll want to go buy things. And she's not greedy. She's not gluttonous in any way, she's a very reasonable kid, she's a great person. But we'll go to the story and I'll say to her, you can have whatever you can carry out of here. If you can carry it out of here, you can have it. The clothes, all the clothes you can carry out.
KING: Do you think that's a by-product of being a divorced father, an absentee father?
BALDWIN: Potentially yes. But I've tried to steer away from that where the things we do are not all -- what they call the Disney dad syndrome, where everything is about fun and games and activities and things that are, you know, not the quotidian chores of the day. I mean, I want to do her homework with her and I want to do -- I want real life with her.
KING: Do you think marriage is more of a problem in California than in Iowa?
BALDWIN: Do you mean in show business?
BALDWIN: I think that people in the business -- I mean, many, many people I know have said the same thing and I'm sure you've seen that, where you meet someone and people in our business, they're very good at making people believe what they want them to believe.
They're very good at concealing the things they don't want you to know. I mean, performers and actors in particular, are very good at presenting a certain kind of face to you. And I think after you get to know somebody, my dear friend Ronnie said it best, he said, you don't really know somebody until you meet their monster. I mean, when you meet the worst side of them and when do you see them at their worst and can you handle that?
KING: What's it like the times when you run into your ex?
BALDWIN: I never do.
KING: You never do?
BALDWIN: Never, no.
KING: You mean you pick up your daughter.
BALDWIN: I pick up my daughter, yes. It's never an issue. Pick her up at her home and I go.
KING: You never talk to her?
BALDWIN: Never, no.
KING: Any things you miss about her?
BALDWIN: You're so -- you're just a devil, Larry. Well, I mean, when I think about pre you know, what happened, my -- I mean, I can't lie. My ex-wife was somebody who was funny and she was fun and she was -- and she liked to have fun and she -- yes, that's what people tell me. They tell me she was pretty. And she was a lot of fun to be with. And she was a great, great person. And then all of a sudden I think we just wanted to live different lives.
KING: Is she a good mother? BALDWIN: Oh, I think she's a great mother, yes, good mom.
KING: Do you still have problems with photographers?
BALDWIN: As a matter of fact, they got me outside this place here. They got a couple guys. But I just ignore them because you learn all...
KING: ... You used to show a temper.
BALDWIN: You learn to drive your car like this because they're coming through the windshield?
KING: What happened that time? You don't have to delve into it.
BALDWIN: They stalked my house and they stalked my ex-wife.
KING: During the divorce?
BALDWIN: No, when my daughter was born. You mean about the assault charges I have with the photographer?
BALDWIN: He was camped out outside of my house.
KING: For what purpose?
BALDWIN: To get a picture of my ex-wife with my baby, with my daughter. And they were hidden in a car. It's a long story but they had this whole triangulation thing with two different cars and two different guys. And the guy got out of the car and he came toward me. I thought he was going to hit me.
KING: So you hit him first?
BALDWIN: Well, I -- I had an intervention. He was out of control. He didn't really know -- he didn't really know what he needed at the time.
KING: You announced -- one thing I love about you Alec, you announced you have obsessive compulsive disorder.
BALDWIN: Yes, but in a funny way.
KING: You did it in a funny way but you had it, right?
BALDWIN: I still think I do have it a little bit, yes, a mild case of it.
KING: Well how do you treat it?
BALDWIN: I don't. I guess I should have it treated somewhat, yes. But my thing was, I always tell people was the same example was if I had coins on a table and they would call me from downstairs on the apartment and they would say, the car's downstairs, you've got to go to the airport and I was already late.
I would stop and I would arrange the piles of the coins so that they were all neat and they were all in the same -- to the dime, quarters and the pennies, and I would take five minutes to do that and then get in the car. Or I'd arrange my pile of my papers.
This is from having -- I blame all this on my three brothers. I blame -- everything that's wrong with me I blame on my three brothers. Everything that's wrong with me emotionally I blame on Danny, Billy and Stephen.
KING: They all turned into actors.
BALDWIN: They all turned into actors. But I blame them for everything that's wrong with me, they drove me insane when I was younger.
KING: You are what?
BALDWIN: I'm the oldest son. I have an older sister Beth, myself, Danny, Billy, Jane and Steven. My three brothers drove me insane. Especially Daniel and Stephen. Billy, he was pretty good, he was father Billy. He was the one that was going to go seminary school.
KING: Stephen is very religious, now though, right?
BALDWIN: Yes, well he's trying to make up for lost time. He's trying to get it all right now.
KING: Was he all wrong before?
BALDWIN: He was -- he was -- he was adventurous.
KING: How many times have you been on "Saturday Night Live?"
BALDWIN: Thirteen, I just did it last weekend.
KING: I know. Why is that so much fun for you?
BALDWIN: Because there's nothing like it. I mean, you do a show that's a live show and there's some degree of high wire and spontaneity for you and you have breaking news and guests come on and it's really very fizzy that way.
And when you make films, everybody knows the outcome, what's going to happen. When you do a play, you know exactly what you're going to say and what you're going to do. Now you might bring to bear a little something special that night, hopefully, infuse it with some real life and make it full and real. I love doing films and I love doing plays but that show, there's just really nothing like it.
KING: What's it like being hot again? I mean, you're...
BALDWIN: ... I don't know, I never think about that.
KING: You don't?
BALDWIN: I never think about that.
KING: If it goes away tomorrow?
BALDWIN: Yes, I mean, I get offered a lot of work, but it could go away tomorrow.
KING: We'll take a break on this edition of LARRY KING LIVE. Here is Alec Baldwin live on "Saturday Night Live."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVE MARTIN, COMEDIAN: Hey, how are you? Let me buy you a drink, huh?
BALDWIN: Oh, I'd love one, yes.
MARTIN: Two Scotches, please.
BALDWIN: So Steve, what are you doing here?
MARTIN: Are you kidding, I'm here to see you, man. It's great. You're hosting. It's fantastic.
MARTIN SHORT, ACTOR: Thank you very much.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Deirdre (ph), smoking is a great privilege in my sanctuary. But for you I will allow it.
BALDWIN: So, you're saying we should split up?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In order to reach that conclusion, Nolan, I would need to see both you and Deidre on a regular and disciplined basis for five hours a day.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm available, Dr. Fitch Ph).
BALDWIN: Five hours a day? I can't do that, I have to work.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: See, Dr. Fitch, I told you, I'm married to a narcissist.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: That's funny.
BALDWIN: I think she's funny. You know, it's interesting. We talked about people you get to work with. And they called me, and I knew in that -- you know, from this business and from her husband and everything and everybody thinks she's incredibly talented. And I was so excited to get to do a movie with her. I worship her. She's great.
KING: We have an e-mail from Matt in San Luis Obispo, California.
Why did you choose to become in involved in animal rights?
BALDWIN: Well, the true answer was to meet my ex-wife. I mean, I went to dinner -- that's a true story -- I met my ex-wife, and we went to dinner on one of our first dates. And we were at the old Morton's, when they were across the street, the old Morton's.
And we went to have dinner and my ex-wife said, I'll have the vegetable plate. And she turned to me and said, I'm a vegetarian. And I said, so am I.
I said, you're kidding me. I said, I'll have the vegetable plate, as well. I said, so tell me all about you, you love animals, and you're into saving the animals, so am I!
I mean, I would go to any lengths back then to, you know, close the deal.
And -- but my ex-wife, Kim, definitely led me by the hand into the world of protesting animals in performance and fur and medical testing, all the different venues I was involved in.
KING: But you're not a vegetarian?
BALDWIN: I am now. Yes. I don't eat meat. I don't eat beef, or poultry, or pork, yes.
KING: But you have leather soles of your shoes?
BALDWIN: Some of the products I wear in films I do, yes. You can't get it out of your life completely, but I don't buy leather jackets. I don't buy -- I avoid -- now all the luggage I'm buying is non-leather. You know, it's all fabric.
KING: What do you make of the elections?
BALDWIN: Well, I think that - I mean, for Democrats, I hope they understand, I mean, if you think about it from the Democratic perspective, that it's not over. I mean, this is really just -- this was not this -- it was a victory for them, but they're not done. I mean, they need to really keep their boot heel on the neck of these people and grind it in there for the next two years.
One person asked me, what did I think of the possibility of them having impeachment. And I had read different things on "Huffington Post" and in newspapers and so forth, where people were concerned that Pelosi had taken the impeachment question off the table, she announced it and so forth.
And I said, you don't want to impeach this guy if you're a Democrat. This guy is the gift that keeps on giving. You want him to stay there for two more years and let them keep running their program. And then, hopefully, the Democrats will make more gains in '08.
KING: Are you supporting Hillary?
BALDWIN: Well, I wasn't sure that I was -- I wasn't really focused on whether I would support her or not. But I wasn't sure about -- about her -- I mean, for most people I know, there's always going to be the question of why she's pursued this political career, had her husband's career ended on a different note, had history been rewritten and those events at the end of Clinton's term and the Lewinsky situation and the impeachment, had not occurred, what would she have done?
And I was wondering if she was doing this, as many people I know were suspecting, was to rewrite her epitaph. Because if you think about Hillary Clinton's biography, it says, and then her husband was impeached and they left the White House in disgrace in the eyes of at least half the country.
Then she decides to take out a pen and scratch that out and say, then Hillary went and ran for the Senate in the state of New York and won. You know, she is deciding it's not over. She wants her life and her biography to be rewritten.
KING: You're saying you would endorse the one before her?
BALDWIN: Well, I don't know. But what I saw was there was one small thing that might seem modest to people. But when Kerry made his misstatement about the troops, I saw her kind of shove him, very effectively and very smartly, she got in front of the microphone and she said that Kerry was wrong. And she chastised Kerry for doing that. And I thought that is what political leadership in this party needs to do right now. It was very mart of her.
KING: We take call from Chicago.
CALLER: Hi. Hi, Alec.
BALDWIN: Hello, how are you?
CALLER: Oh, you're my favorite actor. I have seen every one of your movies. And I just want to see you're long past an Oscar.
And my question is, did you get hurt when Kim Basinger won it?
BALDWIN: No. Oh, no. When she won the Oscar?
BALDWIN: Oh, no, I was elated when she won. No, it was great. I mean, I remember when you -- you know what's like when you go to the Oscars. You're in the car and we were driving, and everybody -- basically, you psyche yourself up for losing, you don't think you're going to win. So we were all driving there. We just kept saying to each other, well, it was nice you were nominated, and, you know, you're probably not going to win, and you shouldn't get your hopes up.
But it's just -- it's a nice evening, and make the most of it. She looked beautiful and all this other stuff. And we went and they said, the winner was Kim Basinger. And I was -- it was like somebody shot me.
You know, I couldn't believe it. I was elated for her. It was a great evening for her, yes.
KING: We'll be right back with more, more phone calls and some e-mails for Alec Baldwin. He'll next be seen in the "Good Sheppard," directed by Robert de Niro.
"AC 360" will be hosted by John Roberts tonight.
John, what's up?
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Larry.
Thanks very much.
Tonight on "360," the gloomy assessments on Iraq. The Pentagon is working on options, but the options appear to be bad, worse and horrible.
Also tonight, the spy who might have stopped 9/11 if anyone had listened to him. That's what he believes. The man who once headed the CIA's bin Laden group says he would have loved to have had this guy on his team. The mole was deep undercover in Osama bin Laden's camps. He says al Qaeda actually wanted the United States in Iraq because it would expand their own holy war. It's a revealing story and one that you'll only see on "360" tonight -- Larry.
KING: Thanks, John.
That's at 10:00 Eastern, 7:00 Pacific.
Right back with Alec Baldwin after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BALDWIN: This is why you're the only one I can trust with these jobs. I was worried that you've been through hell and back, but that wife of yours, are you sure you don't need some more time off?
BEN STILLER, ACTOR: No, I'm good.
BALDWIN: Absolutely sure?
STILLER: Yes. No, I'm fine.
BALDWIN: All right.
BALDWIN: Good, thanks.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Is it hard to look at yourself in pictures like that? Happy days?
BALDWIN: No, because I think that's a different guy. I'm a totally different person...
KING: Would you agree, someone said that divorce is worse than death because you lose someone but you don't have closure? It never has closure.
BALDWIN: Oh, I think -- for everybody that I know that's normal and healthy, when they get married, they go into it hopeful. You don't go into it predicting it's going to fail. You don't go into it wanting it to end. I mean, I'm very keen in the book -- we have a huge component of the book dedicated to prenuptial agreements. And we advise people to get prenuptial agreements, not in terms of segregating assets and about financial issues, but prenuptial agreements whereby you have a pre-executed document that will discuss how your marriage will dissolve if it does dissolve, while you still have a shred of respect for each other. That's the best time to negotiate a document like that rather than later on.
I mean, what happens in divorce, the terrible thing about divorce, among other things is, that, A, you wind up having to -- the best thing for you to do is to negotiated and mediate your differences right when you're the least willing to do that. And the second thing is that family law, particularly in California, is a place in which they mete out criminal punishments in civil court. Men are denied their rights by judges and by therapeutic caregivers.
Men are denied access to their children, not for valid reasons at all. It's as arbitrary and it's as corrupt and ineffectual as can be.
KING: You're going to write about this?
KING: You wanted to add something about Hillary?
BALDWIN: I had a friend of mine say a great line to me a while back. He said that when Jackie Robinson was brought into Major League Baseball, he said that O'Malley brought Jackie Robinson not because he was just a great ballplayer, but he worked on every level. He was charismatic, he was handsome, he was modest, and O'Malley wanted...
BALDWIN: Ricky, rather, Ricky and O'Malley. When Ricky brought him in, he wanted that experiment to work. And the question becomes, is Hillary Clinton the Jackie Robinson of women in politics? Is she the right one? That's the question we have to ask.
KING: Odessa, Texas, hello.
CALLER: Hello. Hi, Alec.
CALLER: I was just wondering, since your divorce, would you ever consider marrying someone that was not in the movie business, just normal people?
BALDWIN: This is -- you're from Odessa, Texas?
BALDWIN: If they had a voice like you, I would consider that. You sound great down there in Odessa, Texas.
KING: They don't have to be in the business?
BALDWIN: No, not at all, no. Although it's damned if you do, damned if you don't, don't you think? Because if you marry somebody that's a civilian, so to speak, they don't get the business. They don't understand what it's like. If you marry somebody in the business, it's -- well, it's sometimes a little too close.
KING: Las Vegas, hello.
CALLER: Hello. I would like to know what advice would you have for someone getting started in the business that's 34, having done one commercial and does not have an agent?
BALDWIN: You live in Las Vegas, you're 34, you don't have an agent, you've done one commercial and you want to get into the business? Take off your clothes and run across the infield at Dodger Stadium.
KING: You'll get attention.
BALDWIN: You'll get attention. You'll get an agent maybe.
KING: We'll be back with...
BALDWIN: I got you there.
KING: Don't go away.
KING: You mentioned it's going to be -- approximately the next couple of weeks you'll hear about the future of "30 Rock." Make a pitch, why should it stay?
BALDWIN: I think it's one of the smartest comedies on TV. There aren't a lot of comedies now. TV seems to have shifted a lot to one- hour drama. And I think Tina is a great writer. I mean, she's so funny. And I think the cast is a good and very diverse and kind of quirky cast. And everybody that comes up to me that watches the show -- I mean, once you get people to watch the show, they love the show. And I get a lot of great response from people.
KING: Do you like television as much as film acting?
BALDWIN: It's totally different. Because in film, they -- it's very thoughtful and they labor over things. Like working with Bob De Niro, I mean, everything is -- everything that's in that frame and everything that's envisioned, the clothes, the sets, everything, the fabric. Everything. With people like Marty and great filmmakers, everything is realized that way.
But in TV, you've got to move. You know, and there's something to be said for that speed.
KING: We have an e-mail from Marry Ann in Omaha, Nebraska. "What has been your favorite role so far?"
BALDWIN: The one I'm doing now. Whatever I'm doing now is the thing I love the most. I mean, I love working in the theater. I would say doing "Streetcar" and doing "20th Century" on Broadway for the Roundabout Theater, and I just did this Joe Orton's play, "Entertaining Mr. Sloan" this past spring. Whenever I do plays, whenever I work in the theater, I love that.
But in terms of work and where my mind is at, it's whatever I'm doing at the time is my favorite.
KING: You know who said that to me?
KING: Anthony Quinn. Because, he said...
BALDWIN: What did he say?
KING: I love what I am doing now.
BALDWIN: Yes. I love what I am doing now. It is good to be working now.
KING: It is good. I cannot think of what I did before.
BALDWIN: That is past. I cannot change. We have only the now.
KING: And he also does Martin Short in character.
BALDWIN: I'm going to go hopefully do his show. He came on... KING: I did it.
BALDWIN: You did it. I'm going to hopefully go and do that show with him, "Jiminy Glick." Larry! Now, Larry, tell me about something scandalous about your family, about your love life.
Isn't he funny? Don't you love him?
KING: He's the best.
BALDWIN: He's one of the funniest people in the business.
KING: And that show, the Martin Short...
BALDWIN: Everybody go see Martin Short on Broadway.
KING: You're doing yourself a favor.
KING: Alec, thank you.
BALDWIN: Always a pleasure, man.
KING: Alec Baldwin.
Before we go, I want to recommend a gripping new book called "Blood Brothers." It's by "Time" magazine's Michael Weisskopf, a frequent guest on this show. Michael lost his right hand while covering the Iraq war and ended up at Ward 57 at Walter Reid. "Blood Brothers" tells of the challenges he and other amputees faced as they fought to reclaim their lives. It's powerful, painful, deeply personal. Get "Blood Brothers" and read it.
And by the way, Wednesday night -- I know you'll tune in for this -- Dr. James Dobson will be here to present the current look at evangelicalism, if I said that right, in the United States.
BALDWIN: I can't wait.
KING: John Roberts stands by to host "AC 360" in New York -- John.
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