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The Situation Room
Will the U.S. Boost Troop Levels in Iraq?; Interview With Charlie Rangel
Aired November 20, 2006 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR: To our viewers, you are in THE SITUATION ROOM where new pictures and information are arriving all the time. Standing by CNN reporters across the United States and around the world to bring you today's top stories.
Happening now: Is there a way out of Iraq? Will the U.S. boost the troop levels or keep troops there longer? The president waits for the Pentagon to weigh the options.
Are some troops bearing an unfair burden? Are there enough troops? A powerful Democrat wants to bring back the draft, while his colleagues back away from that idea. I will speak with Congressman Charlie Rangel.
A crowded school bus plummets 30 feet over an interstate overpass, a deadly highway accident in Huntsville, Alabama.
Wolf Blitzer is off today. I'm John King. You are in THE SITUATION ROOM.
From trying to win the war to finding a way out. The Pentagon's best and bright rest teaming up to review the strategy options for Iraq. Are there any good choices left? CNN's Michael Ware is in Baghdad, but we begin with our Senior Pentagon Correspondent Jamie McIntyre -- Jamie.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, Pentagon officials insist the recommendation for what the U.S. should do in Iraq is locked in the head of Joint Chief Chairman General Peter Pace.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE (voice over): Pentagon officials say there are a lot of myths that have grown up around its internal review of Iraq strategy. Perhaps the biggest is that the reappraisal will produce a formal report or make any firm recommendations for the way ahead.
Instead, officials say, what's been dubbed the have a strategic dialogue group is more of a brainstorming exercise among 16 of the brightest military officers, mostly colonels, or equivalent rank, who are fresh from the frontlines in Iraq. They have been meeting regularly with Chairman Peter Pace and the rest of the joint chiefs, providing insights, advice, and an unvarnished reality check, according to Pentagon insiders. So Pace can hone his advice to the president, which he hasn't yet offered.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I haven't made any decisions about troop increases or troop decreases, and won't until I hear from a variety of sources, including our own United States military.
MCINTYRE: Pentagon officials say a second myth is that the Pentagon group has outlined three options described by "The Washington Post" as "go big" for sending a lot more troops. "Go home" for pulling out quickly. Or "go long," for the current plan of stepped-up training for Iraqi troops, along with, perhaps, a short boost in U.S. troop levels.
"The Post" report did prompt outgoing House Armed Services Committee Chairman Duncan Hunter to label his latest idea with a similar catch phrase.
REP. DUNCAN HUNTER (R-CA): Go Iraqi.
MCINTYRE: Calling for Iraqi units in nine relatively peaceful provinces to be moved to front lines.
HUNTER: In those provinces are 27 Iraqi battalions. Those Iraqi battalions could be sent into the contested areas in Baghdad, and should be sent into those contested areas.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: Hunter's idea is more in line with what General John Abizaid, the top Persian Gulf commander, outlined last week as his preferred strategy. Pushing Iraqi forces to the lead, before the violence in Iraq spins out of control -- John.
KING: Jamie, you heard the president use the term "variety of options". What's the sense at the Pentagon as to when they will have a single answer about what next?
MCINTYRE: I think what you are going to see is that General Peter Pace will be prepared to react and offer either support or alternatives once the Baker commission, Baker-Hamilton Commission, comes back with its formal recommendation for what it thinks is the way ahead.
KING: Jamie McIntyre for us at the Pentagon. Thank you very much.
While Americans look for a way out of Iraq, Iran has its foot firmly in the door. It is muscling its way more into the picture. Now Iran has invited the leader of Iraq to a weekend meeting. Correspondent Michael Ware joins us now from Baghdad.
Michael, Iraq's president, Mr. Talabani is going to Tehran. Do you expect any significant, tangible results from that, especially when it comes to improving the security situation?
MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT, THE SITUATION ROOM: Well, there's no specific agenda we have been told of. No one has an expectation of the -- delivery of any immediate prize by President Talabani.
However, from an American perspective, key among the list of things to discuss will be security. Indeed, U.S. intelligence and the American ambassador here, and the American commander on the ground here, have all repeatedly accused Iran of sending money, fighters, training, and weapons across the border.
We are seeing essentially Iran, through its surrogates, killing American and British troops. They are also supporting the major militias, which are the fundamental building blocks of the government that President Talabani represents.
These countries share a land border. They fought a long and bitter war. There is much for them to discuss. Foremost, will be security. Now, Iran has also offered to help with the rebuilding of the Iraqi army and the Iraqi intelligence service. America does not want that to happen. We will see if that comes up in President Talabani's discussions.
KING: Mike, I want to bring your attention to policy debate here in the United States. A number of competing proposals being kicked around as to what the United States should do to change its strategy. Almost every one of them say they have to do a better job after three and half, plus, years in Iraq of finding a way to improve the training of Iraqi security forces. Is any progress being made while the politicians and others back here in Washington debate what to do next?
WARE: No, not really, John. I mean, you only have so much to work with here in Iraq. As we know, most of the security forces, particularly the police and national police, former commando paramilitary units, are heavily infiltrated by the Shia militias. That's why we are seeing in Sunni areas to the west, police being recruited locally because Sunnis simply cannot trust their own men in uniform, if they come from the central government.
There's really very little here for the Americans to work with. We have seen an entire brigade of Iraqi national police taken off-line because of its complicity in death squad activity. That unit is now undergoing further training.
But overall, essentially, America needs to accept it has not been winning this war so far. In fact, its enemies, Al Qaeda and Iran, have been emboldened by this war. America needs to make a reassessment.
Firstly, of what is it trying to achieve. Any concept of establishing a bristling, shiny new democracy for the Middle East has to be cast aside. America needs to downscale its goals and that will help reshape what strategy applies and how many forces that's going to need and for how long. Essentially, America needs to accept it is not going get what it set out to do -- John.
KING: Correspondent Michael Ware for us in Baghdad. Michael, thank you very much.
WARE: Thank you, John.
KING: President Bush in Indonesia today at the end of a trip that also brought him to the annual Asia Pacific Economic Summit, held in Vietnam this year. Each stop no surprise, Iraq among the issues. Our White House Correspondent Ed Henry is traveling with the president.
ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, THE SITUATION ROOM: John, on his final day in Asia the president came here to the presidential palace in Indonesia. He faced a wave of protests and more questions about troop levels in Iraq.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HENRY (voice over): Thousands of protesters in the streets of Bogor, Indonesia, a Muslim country seething about President Bush's invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan. During a brief joint press conference with his Indonesian counterpart, Mr. Bush tried to downplay the protests with a quip.
BUSH: It is not the first time, by the way, where people have showed up and expressed their opinion about my policies.
HENRY: Perhaps a fitting end to a weeklong swing through Asia, that highlighted the unpopularity of the war in Iraq. Attending the APEC Summit in Vietnam inviting inevitable comparisons between two unpopular wars. The president's final day in the region began in Vietnam. Banging the gong at the stock exchange in Ho Chi Minh City, to highlight a former enemy's burgeoning economy.
After criticism he had not been mingling with ordinary people on his trip the president was bobbing to the beat, as children performed traditional Vietnamese dances and songs.
But a much more hostile reception was waiting in Indonesia. Where there's anger about the war in Iraq.
BUSH: I haven't made any decisions about troop increases or troop decreases and won't until I hear from a variety of sources, including our own United States military. I haven't -- no need to comment on something that may not happen. But if it were to happen I will tell you the upsides and downsides.
HENRY: And when the Indonesian president was asked whether he had privately urged the U.S. president to begin withdrawing troops from Iraq, Mr. Bush jumped in.
BUSH: I will be glad to answer for him, no, he didn't. But he can answer it for himself.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HENRY: There was so much concern here about the president's security that he was not even stay overnight in Indonesia. The White House choosing instead to fly him for 13 hours, so he could sleep safe and sound in Hawaii -- John.
KING: Ed Henry traveling with the president.
Up ahead, deadly accident; a school bus plunging off a freeway overpass. We are learning new details in this developing story. We will bring you the latest.
Also, he will soon be the chairman of a powerful committee. The House Ways and Means Committee. He wants to reinstate the draft. Congressman Charlie Rangel standing by to join us in THE SITUATION ROOM.
We will also talk about that draft proposal, the war in Iraq , and much more with our world affairs analyst, former Defense Secretary William Cohen. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Welcome back to THE SITUATION ROOM.
There is a debate about whether to reinstate the draft. Policy debate about what to do in Iraq. Joining me now to discuss these and other issues the former Defense Secretary William Cohen, our world affairs analyst, also chairman and CEO of the Cohen Group.
Mr. Secretary thank you for joining us.
I want to start with Charlie Rangel's idea. It is not a new idea, but he will be a chairman, the Democrats are in the majority this year. He says more than three and a half years into the war in Iraq it is time to think about the draft, reinstating the draft.
Because he says we would not have this war if we had a draft where the politicians' kids and rich people's kids can be pulled in military service. Good idea?
WILLIAM COHEN, FMR. DEFENSE SECRETARY: I think it is an idea that would not come to pass. His own leadership and the Democratic Party is opposed to it, so I don't see it coming a reality.
I think it is healthy to have a debate however. And it will bring to the surface the fact that the military would come to the conclusion it is far better to have an all-volunteer force, than to have a draft force of people who don't want to be there.
But Charlie Rangel raises a very important issue. And that is the one of fairness and also of whether or not if you had more people who had more sons and daughters at risk would they be so eager to endorse going to war? That is a fundamental issue.
I think one way to have that check and balance is if you have a mixture of one party in charge of the White House and some balance and check, by having a different party, at least one of the houses in charge, in this case, both houses by the Democrats. That will be a check against a rush to war in the future. Right now, we have seen when one party controls everything, there's not sufficient ability to challenge it without being labeled unpatriotic and not supporting our troops. You will have a difference now with that change.
KING: We will have that check, obviously, this war is more than three and a half years long, already. We will have that check when the new Congress comes back in January and is controlled by the Democrats. And the debate will be what to do now, can we win in Iraq , or should we just get out?
I want you to listen to former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, who weighed in on this subject over the weekend.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY KISSINGER, FMR. SECRETARY OF STATE: If you mean by clear military victory, an Iraqi government that can be established, and whose influence runs across the whole country, that gets civil war under control and sectarian violence under control, in a time period that the political process is of the democracy will support, I don't believe that it is possible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Do you agree with Secretary Kissinger, not possible?
COHEN: Well, what Secretary Kissinger has done is almost replicate what Senator Pat Moynihan once said about defining deviancy down. And what we have done here with Secretary Kissinger, is to define victory down. That the notion that we are going to have a military victory is no longer possible, as such, and now the question is how do we define success.
Namely, leaving Iraq in such a condition that the United States can say that -- it at least has a chance of becoming a stable society. So what he has defined success and victory down to it's lowest common denominator, it seems to me. And is calling for an international conference.
I would argue that yes, it is important to talk to Iraq, bring it to Iran, to bring Syria into the picture as well. But you need to have some leverage in dealing with Iran. I would hope they would bring the nuclear issue in, as far as Iran is concerned, by saying the key members of the Security Council, Russia, China, must support the Security Council resolution. To say they will impose sanctions upon Iran in the event they don't accept the resolutions.
That would at least give the United States an opportunity to go to Iran and say now let's talk about when kind of an overall strategic agreement we can make about you cutting back support for your money and troops going in, or forces going in to Iraq, also, Hamas, Hezbollah, a major opportunity here. But you have to have some leverage. We don't have that just yet.
KING: Let me break that down in two parts. That's a pretty grand bargain.
COHEN: It is.
KING: You want to bring everybody together to talk not only about Iraq but about the whole neighborhood and its many, many troubles.
COHEN: Right.
KING: Do you really believe you get everybody into a room that that can be done in one package?
COHEN: Not necessarily in one package. I think that has to be the approach. Iran at this particular point is happy to see the United States suffering. In term of $80, $90 billion a year, the loss of so many young people that we're losing on a day-by-day basis. They are quite content to see that continue.
What we need to do is to make sure they understand this is not in their long-term interest, nor in that of Syria. And to do that we need the support of the entire security council, the permanent members. That will send a signal to Iran that it is time for them to understand what the consequences will be in the event they aren't prepared to make an overall, overarching agreement, which would include Middle East peace process, putting that back on track.
But you can't put that back on track as long as they are funding Hamas, Hezbollah, and sending money into Iraq as well.
KING: Former Secretary of Defense William Cohen. We are short of time today. We thank you for your thoughts. It is an interesting mess, for lack of a better term. Thank you, sir.
Coming up, poisoned and fighting for his life. A former Russian spy thinks he knows who did it. We will get latest from London on this web of intrigue.
Plus, we'll be joined by Congressman Charlie Rangel. I will ask him about his call for the Pentagon to reinstate the draft. Stay with us, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Carol Costello joins us with a look at the other stories making news.
Hi, Carol.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN NEWS ANCHOR, THE SITUATION ROOM: Hi, John. Hello to all of you.
A new set back in efforts to form a Palestinian unity government. Today the rival Hamas and Fatah parties announced a breakdown in talks. Their deep differences raise questions about the ability for the two sides to reach a deal, despite months of economic sanctions. Those sanctions have bankrupted the Palestinian government and caused widespread hardship in the West Bank and Gaza.
German officials say they are investigating six people in an alleged plot to blow up an Israeli airliner. Officials say the plot involved paying an airport worker to smuggle explosives onto the plane. German security sources tell Reuters the plane would have been at the Frankfurt International Airport. Prosecutors say the accused were in contact with terrorists backers. The six suspects were detained in question, but five were released Saturday.
A terrifying experience for students at a middle school in western Germany. An 18-year-old former student strapped explosives to his body today and burst into the school. And then he began firing, a teacher, school housekeeper and four students were wounded. The gunman died.
Police are investigating whether he shot himself, or died from an explosion. Police say he recently posted a letter on his personal web page saying he planned to kill himself in a spectacular way.
Protesters that wanted to call attention to the plight of prisoners in Turkey got their way, but they also got tear gas by the police. The demonstrators took over the offices of the Associated Press, in Ankara, for about two hours today. Twenty-nine people are now under arrest. The demonstrators were trying to call attention to what they called poor treatment of prisoners in Turkey. They allege that 122 prisoners have died in riots or hunger strikes.
That's a look at the headlines, right now, John.
KING: Carol Costello, in New York. Carol, thank you very much.
Coming up, a possible collision is still decades away. But experts are already thinking about how to avert the worst-case scenario. A giant asteroid hurtling toward Earth. We'll have the details.
Plus, my interview with the incoming chairman of the powerful Ways and Means Committee. I'll ask Charlie Rangel about his controversial call to reinstate the military draft.
Stay with us, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: You're in THE SITUATION ROOM, where new pictures and information are arriving all the time.
Happening now: A bus carrying more than 40 high school students plunges off a freeway overpass in Huntsville, Alabama. Three students are dead, and many more injured, some critically. Right now police are looking for a car witnesses say may have clipped the bus just before that crash.
Also, brainstorming Iraq, some of the Pentagon's top military minds are just back from the country and reviewing strategy options. They are offering insight, advice and crucial reality check as top commanders prepare to make recommendations to the president.
Democratic Congressman Charles Rangel, he's about to take over the powerful House Ways and Means Committee, and he is recommending reinstating the military draft. He will join us right here to talk about it in a few moments.
Wolf Blitzer is off today. I'm John King. You are in THE SITUATION ROOM.
New York Democrat Charlie Rangel suggests minorities and low- income families share too much of the burden in Iraq and Afghanistan. Today we asked his constituents about that issue. Let's go live to our CNN's Mary Snow. She is in New York -- Mary.
MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT, THE SITUATION ROOM: John, in Harlem today there were different points of view about a draft, but it was certainly a big topic of discussion.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW: This is 125th Street in the heart of Harlem. Outside a military recruitment station you don't have to go far to find support for Congressman Charles Rangel's idea to revive the draft, if needed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If we are short on troops, we have no choice. We have to defend this country. I think everybody should contribute, rich or poor.
SNOW: This is Congressman Rangel's district in New York and it's constituents know all too well about the struggles of the poor; 30 percent of the population is estimated to be at the poverty level. Hispanics and African-Americans make up most of the population. Rangel says communities like this are targets for military recruiters. He says a draft would level the field.
REP. CHARLES RANGEL, (D-NY): There's no question in my mind that this president and this administration would never have invaded Iraq , especially on the flimsy evidence that was presented to the Congress, if indeed we had a draft and members of Congress and the administration thought that their kids, from their communities, would be placed in harm's way.
SNOW: But the Army directed us to a study done at the Heritage Foundation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For every two volunteers from the poorest American neighborhoods, there are three volunteers from the wealthiest American neighborhoods. So there is a terrible myth out there that says we need to have a draft because America's military is unbalanced.
SNOW: When it comes to recruiting people one Air Force recruiter says most volunteers are enlisting in hopes of paying for their education, and starting a career.
SGT. DANNY ULCH, AIR FORCE RECRUITER: I would say there are very few percentage right now, of the kids that come in -- start off, you know what, I want to join the Air Force because, you know, I'm patriotic and want to serve my country. I just don't see a lot of that right now.
SNOW: James England, a Harlem resident, says he volunteered for the Marines during the Vietnam war to get a job. He says many here are doing the same thing today.
JAMES ENGLAND, HARLEM RESIDENT: There are not a lot of opportunities as far as jobs available in -- in a paying field that would allow to you have a meaningful life.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SNOW: One recruiter we spoke with admits that his job these days is increasingly difficult, John.
KING: Mary Snow for us in New York. Mary, thank you very much.
And the man of the moment, Congressman Charlie Rangel, soon to be the chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee, is standing by now live in New York.
Chairman Rangel, I will call you that a bit early, prematurely perhaps. But Chairman Rangel, I want to start with the idea many of your colleagues, your Democratic colleagues were backing away from this idea. The speaker-to-be Nancy Pelosi had a photo-op today with your majority leader to be, Steny Hoyer.
And she, essentially, was making the point you will be very, very busy as the chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee, and that she thought it was best, my language, that maybe you stay in your lane. Deal with tax issues, deal with spending issues.
Over on the Senate side, the spokesman for Harry Reid, who will be the majority leader of the Senate, in January, said this: The administration has stretched our troops to the breaking point. The burden of meeting our nation's needs has not been shared equally by all segments of our society. However, Senator Reid still believes these problems are best addressed by making needed adjustments in the all-volunteer force, rather than scrapping the system completely.
So, you're a lonely voice in the new Democratic caucus, are you not?
REP. CHARLES RANGEL, (D-NY): Let's face it now, it is not within my jurisdiction, but as long as I'm alive I want the administration to justify why we are in Iraq. And if, indeed, there is going to be a military victory we ought to know that. And if we are going to need more troops I'm sick and tired of them coming to the same communities, offering hundreds of thousands of dollars and spending $4 billion in ads. Anyone that would tell you that the affluent are enlisting are just not telling the truth. So whether this becomes a bill or not the debate will prove that they are enlisting and recruiting in areas of the highest unemployment. And that is whether it's the inner cities or whether it's the rural areas. And so that's a fact. And if you take a look at the war dead and the wounded you will see they neither come from well-known cities or towns you never heard of in the south and the west and those are the facts. And so whoever challenges those are 100 percent wrong.
KING: Among those challenging the facts is Duncan Hunter. You know him well in the House, he's currently the chairman of the Armed Services Committee. When the Republicans lose the majority in January he will become the ranking member. I want you to listen to something Congressman Hunter, Republican of California said a bit earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. DUNCAN HUNTER, (R-CA) ARMED SERVICES CHMN.: Right now the military is meeting all of its goals on re-enlistment and accessions into the military. We're doing very, very well. While you have people who are volunteering to take spots in the U.S. military, it doesn't make sense to be drafting people who would be displacing those persons.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Congressman, Mr. Hunter's point seems to be you're getting a higher caliber of people who walk up and volunteer than you would be if you drafted people and that your proposal would lower the readiness, if you will.
RANGEL: Well, the head military officer general in Iraq testified last week in front of a Senate Committee and while he said we didn't need any more troops, he said that even if we did, we don't have that many combat troops available. So what does this mean? You send the troops back five and six times? You go deeper into the reserves and the National Guard. This is so totally unfair. Let me make it abundantly clear, if there's anyone that believes that going to war is a national interest, I don't see why they would say that everyone should be in harm's way if we go at all. If it is not enough to be patriotic and to enlist, then it is not enough to go to war. We have never heard the president of the United States or the commander- in-chief make any argument in appealing to the people to enlist because it is the patriotic thing to do.
Instead of that, they offer $40,000 bonus, $70,000 education, and $4 billion in ads. And so I'm saying if you have to go to war, don't just let the poor that come from these communities of high unemployment be in harm's way. Let everyone go or look to diplomatic solutions to these very serious problems. But each time they say, put the military options on the table in Iran, the military options on the table in North Korea, we need more troops in Iraq, then I'm saying that it's not their kids they're talking about. Most of the people talking have received deferments.
KING: Congressman Rangel, you make a point and you make it with quite passion. The Democrats are about to take charge and one of the questions is, can the party govern? Can the party show the discipline to keep focused on its agenda? Have any members of the leadership called you up and said Charlie, we understand your point, Charlie we respect your point, but Charlie please be quiet, don't talk about this right now? RANGEL: Of course not. No one would ever say this to Charlie because I am saying that if our country is in danger, if there was something that I could do to make a sacrifice I would do it. I don't believe that anyone that is serious in believing that invading Iraq and staying in Iraq and looking for a victory in Iraq, if they really think they're doing this in order to safeguard America and they don't support that everyone should make a sacrifice, I think that's hypocritical.
KING: Let me ask you this question. You will put your proposal forward. You say you would at least like a hearing on it to have a significant debate about troop levels and where they should come from in this country. Is there any doubt in your mind, your proposal does not have the votes. You know that full well. Any doubt in your mind that the Democrats will push to increase the size of the military in the new Congress?
RANGEL: I don't know what they would do, but don't say I don't have the votes. You don't get the votes or you're not supposed to get them. In this new Congress, bills get hearings, they listen to the evidence and they determine whether or not they need this type of legislative solution. Now we haven't even had a Congress. We don't have the committees. As a matter of fact, the next chairman of the Armed Services Committee will be Ike Skelton. And Ike knows that he represents rural areas that too many people from rural areas that need jobs are looking toward the military. And he's put out press releases about it. So I don't know what's going to happen in the next Congress. I do know this, some people are saying we need a military solution in Iraq. And I'm saying with whose kids do you need it?
KING: Let me ask you a broader question on that point. We had a soundbite from Henry Kissinger on the program a little bit earlier, who says he does not see a viable military solution at least in the short term if the goal is to have a sustainable democracy in place in Iraq. You will be the chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee and have a big voice in spending and budget matters. If this president does not come through with strategy changes that Chairman Charlie Rangel is comfortable with, would Chairman Charlie Rangel say the only way to force this president to move our way is to cut off funding?
RANGEL: No, indeed. Number one, we don't have any jurisdiction over spending. We have a lot of jurisdiction over raising the taxes for the war, which is now close to $500 billion. But the cruelest thing of all is to be stationed in Iraq and listen to the Kissinger's and everybody else say that there's no military victory and the president is saying that you have to stay there until there is a military victory, and you're not fighting people with uniforms or flags. You walk in each and every day scared to death that some roadside bomb is going to kill you and the question would be why are you there if people like Kissinger say that there is no military victory? What would the Baker commission come back and say? I don't know. But it just seemed to me that it's not enough patriotism in this country to warrant us going to Iraq and staying in Iraq.
KING: Congressman Charlie Rangel, soon to be the chairman of the Ways and Means Committee, soon to be part of the Democratic majority in the House of Representatives. We'll continue to watch this as you come back to Washington. Sir thank you for your time today.
RANGEL: Thank you.
KING: Take care congressman. Members of the online community are responding to Congressman Rangel's call to reinstate the draft. They don't seem to like what the congressman is saying. Our internet reporter Jacki Schechner has more on that. Jacki?
JACKI SCHECHNER, CNN INTERNET REPORTER: John, truth be told he is not garnering a lot of support online from the left or the right. From liberal Geralyn Merritt at talkleft.com she calls Rangel's proposal a quote, "deranged moment. Saying if he thinks the draft would stop the war in Iraq then he's mistaken." Now as you might expect there's even more harsher criticism on the right. From Bob Owens at Confederate Yankee, he says that Rangel's plan is cynical and unwanted and says that this is just a means to raise an anti-war cry.
Now Uncle Jimbo, who posts at Blackfive.net, one of the top military blogs, actually thinks the draft would be a good idea, that it would broaden the talent pool but he seems to be in the minority for most military bloggers. Most seem to agree more with Grayhawk in Mudville Gazette who links to an old post from when he was in Baghdad saying at the time that he'd much rather be surrounded by people who believe in the cause and who are fighting because they want to be there, not because they were troops that are forced to serve. John?
KING: Jacki thank you very much. A debate online I suspect, just a debate Congressman Rangel would like to have and you can bet he will push it when he gets back to Washington. Thank you very much Jacki, thank you congressman as well. Next up, a real-life cold war thriller. A former Russian spy now fighting for his life after being poisoned. You'll likely be surprised at who he is blaming. Plus new details emerging on the tragic school bus crash, three students are now dead and many more injured. Stay with us, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Here is a story that seems straight out of a cold war spy thriller, but this one is for real. A former Russian spy is poisoned and suspicion is swirling at the highest levels of the former Soviet Union. CNN's Paula Newton is in London with the details.
PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: John, in dramatic fashion, Alexander Litvinenko released pictures of himself in a hospital bed fighting for his life, all to draw more attention to his accusations against the Kremlin. From his bed in a London hospital where Alexander Litvinenko is fighting for his life. The former Russian spy is giving even the best cold war conspiracies a run for their money. So intriguing because he implicates the Kremlin itself.
The plot begins here at a London sushi spot earlier this month where Litvinenko says he was poisoned as he met with an Italian informant who claimed he had information linking the Russian government to the murder of journalist Anna Politkovskaya. Within hours of the meal Litvinenko was admitted to the hospital with what he thought was food poisoning. But over the next few days the 41-year- old suffered severe pain, vomiting, dehydration, heart complications, and finally, doctors say, the dead giveaway Litvinenko had been poisoned with thallium, he lost all his hair.
DR. JOHN HENRY, CLINICAL TOXICOLOGIST: You could call thallium poisoning chemical torture. It really is a way of causing harm to somebody without ever being near them. The damage has been done, the assailant is gone and somebody is suffering seriously for many months.
NEWTON: And yet it takes just a pinch of thallium to kill or seriously hurt someone. It is a toxic metal that actually looks a lot like salt or sugar, it is odorless, colorless and tasteless and dissolves easily into water.
HENRY: In a way, it's a very ideal -- I shouldn't use that word, but it's an ideal homicidal poison and it's been used as such for many years.
NEWTON: Toxicologist John Henry has examined Litvinenko and says there is no doubt he was poisoned with thallium and could still die. John in the past cases like this have proven very hard to crack. Some of the people involved head for diplomatic or intelligence cover and that means that local police forces have no chance of getting to the bottom of it.
KING: Paula Newton in London on a spy thriller. Up ahead here, an asteroid threatens to slam into earth. But this time it's no movie. We'll have details of the potential collision and what experts say we can do to avoid it.
Coming up on your 7:00 p.m. Eastern hour, a major new development concerning O.J. Simpson's controversial book, "If I Did It." We'll have details about a last minute decision about it and the planned TV special. Stay with us, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
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KING: We have been following a developing story in Huntsville, Alabama where a school bus carrying more than 40 students plunged off a freeway overpass. Our Rusty Dornin is there live at the scene for us with the latest. Rusty?
RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well John, investigators are still on the scene here of this early morning bus crash here in Huntsville, Alabama. Forty-three students from Lee High School were traveling to another nearby technological school when the bus they were traveling on came over this freeway overpass and what they believe is a witness says a car swerved near the bus and possibly struck it. The bus swerved, hit the rail and went over the overpass, crashing. Now three students have died as a result of this crash. Another -- at least 10 students walked away amazingly enough. The others had broken bones, lacerations. There are still two that are in critical condition right now in local hospitals. And the NTSB is on the scene. They're going to be investigating to see what happened. So far, they don't know who was driving the car. The witness only said that it was a small compact car that swerved towards the bus. John?
KING: And so, Rusty, as they investigate a small compact car, we talked to the police chief last hour he said may have clipped the bus, may have cut in front of the bus. They know nothing about this car as we know yet?
DORNIN: No. They don't know anything about the car at all yet. They don't even know if -- if this really happened that way or not. There were even some rumors that the kids had been -- played chicken even with the bus sometimes when they were traveling to school but the school officials said they had heard nothing of that kind. So, so far they have not talked to anyone who was involved in this accident.
KING: And when we have tragedies like this involving school buses one of the questions that always comes up is safety belts. Are there any on the bus and should there be seat belts required on the bus?
DORNIN: Of course that's been a big question. There was a study done recently, a national study about school bus safety. They say look, we need to do more to protect these children. There are 17,000 children a year apparently that are hurt in these bus crashes. But they say the seat belts may not be the answer. That they need higher seats and padded seats but of course in something like this where the kids are flying out of the seats into the bus -- the seat belts may have been something that could have protected kids in this kind of an accident.
KING: It is remarkable to see the pictures of that bus. Rusty Dornin for us live on the scene. We will check back in as developments warrant. Rusty thank you very much. And Carol Costello joins us now with a closer look at other stories making news. Carol?
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, John a couple of things to tell you, the government is taking more steps to protect you against the bird flu virus. The government is awarding contracts to three companies for enough doses of vaccine to cover 2.7 million people. The vaccine will cost $200 million. It will add to the existing stockpile of vaccine that's enough for about three million people.
And it would sound like some sort of a plot to a TV medical drama if it were not so real. Twelve surgeons labored 10 hours to give five patients new kidneys. Count them, five. Doctors in Maryland worked on the patients at the same time. And officials say it is the first time that's been done. All five kidney recipients and the five organ donors are said to be doing just fine. That's a look at some headlines this afternoon. John?
KING: Carol Costello, Carol thank you very much. While millions of Americans will feast on turkey on Thanksgiving, they should also get ready for a big serving of spam. Not the spam in the can. Experts say tens of billions of spam e-mail messages will be sent this holiday season. Here with more to look for in your mailbox, you're in box, our internet reporter Jacki Schechner. Hi Jacki?
SCHECHNER: Hi John, simply put there is more spam now than ever. Experts are saying you have to look out for it, IronPort is a web security firm say they anticipate 78 billion spam messages a day during the month of December. They say that's double where it was last year. Another web security firm MessageLabs is also saying that 90 percent of the messages sent out in December will be unsolicited messages. The reason why spam goes up they say over the holiday season is because we're doing more online trafficking, online shopping and that spammers can use holiday key words because they know that we're going to be searching for software will possibly click on those e-mails.
Now spam is not going to affect you very much personally but the size of spam getting bigger and the amount of spam out there is really taxing on technological resources and the companies that have to fight this for you. We spoke to company Yahoo today that says it is doing everything it can to fight holiday spam. We also spoke to AOL which like CNN is a Time Warner company and they say they have about 44 million e-mail users in the U.S. They blocked two billion spam messages a day. That's about 50 spam messages per person per day. John?
KING: So you're telling me it's a serious problem and I shouldn't make spam jokes.
SCHECHNER: You can make all the spam jokes you want.
KING: Jacki Schechner, Jacki thank you very much. Lou Dobbs is getting ready for his show right at the top of the hour. Lou, what are you working on?
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: John thank you. The American and Chinese military holding joint naval exercises and while there is a show of cooperation it may also be more than just a little one-sided. We'll have that report. Is an American high technology company marketing surveillance equipment to the Chinese police to allow them to spy on their citizens? New evidence suggests that may be the case. We'll have that special report. And Texas legislators cracking down on illegal immigration, pushing for far-reaching legislation that includes restricting the rights of children born in the United States to illegal alien parents. We'll have that story, all of the day's news, a great deal more in just a few minutes here on CNN. We hope you'll join us. John, back to you.
KING: And Lou we were talking just a moment ago with Charlie Rangel about his proposal to reinstate the draft and how that debate will change when the Democrats take control of Congress. You raised an immigration issue there. How do you see that one changing?
DOBBS: In terms of the draft, you mean?
KING: I was asking more about immigration once the Democrats take charge, what do you expect?
DOBBS: It's really very difficult to imagine the Democrats not paying a great deal of attention to what happened on November 7. The fact is that border security is a critical need to win the war on drugs, to protect this nation against a possible terrorist attack. Illegal immigration is just an adjunct to a very large set of national security issues and I think this Congress had better pay attention to the people and their desires.
KING: And they know you'll be watching. Lou Dobbs will be with us in about six minutes at the top of the hour. Lou thank you very much. And up next here, sounds like science fiction, but the facts are more frightening. An asteroid on a possible collision course with earth. We'll show you next. Stay right here, you're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
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KING: We won't know for sure for years, but there's a slim chance our planet could be on a collision course with an asteroid. While the worst case scenario is unlikely, it is possible. So what could be done? CNN's Carol Costello is looking into it, she joins us live from New York with our "Welcome to the Future" report. Carol?
COSTELLO: I'm telling you, it is possible. But it's a tough question. How do you divert something that weighs 25 million tons and is hurling through space at 30,000 miles per hour? NASA's now working on a plan to prevent Armageddon.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO (voice-over): It's the kind of catastrophe Hollywood dreams of as in the movie "Armageddon", but it's not all hype. There really is an asteroid out there. The 25 million ton apropos, it could pack enough punch to wipe out a small country. Scientists say they are 99.7 percent sure it will miss us in 2029 but it will come so close, some will be able to see it and that is too close.
MOVIE CLIP: The United States government asked us to say the world. Anybody want to say no?
COSTELLO: And because NASA thinks Armageddon isn't as far- fetched as it might appear on the screen, it is now looking for its own action hero. An astronaut to land a spaceship on an asteroid hurtling through space at 30,000 miles per hour to figure out how to deflect something worse than anything Hollywood can cook up.
(on camera): I'm picturing Bruce Willis with this big old bomb standing on the asteroid and planting right in the middle and blowing it to smithereens.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gosh I hope not. That would be just bad news.
COSTELLO: Mike Shara is an astrophysicist at New York's American Museum of Natural History.
MICHAEL SHARA, ASTROPHYSICIST: That will just send tens or hundreds of pieces heading our way. Instead of being hit by a 45, what will happen is we'll be hit by a shotgun blast.
COSTELLO: Experts say there is a better way, called deflection methodology.
SHARA: You either land on it or dock with it and gently push it a little bit so that you speed it up in its path or better still just get in front of it with a massive spacecraft and let the gravitational attraction to the spacecraft speed it up a little bit.
COSTELLO: In other words, unlike the heroes of Hollywood's "Armageddon" a crafty astronaut might simply knock the thing off course, saving humanity until the next time.
(END OF VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO: Hey, it really does happen, you know. In 1908 an asteroid devastated parts of Siberia when it exploded mid air with the force of 1,000 Hiroshima's. And according to NASA each of us is 750 times more likely to be killed by an asteroid than to win this weekend's lottery. Which might make you think, John, why am I playing the lottery?
KING: You think Wolf Blitzer is off on vacation, he's in training for that mission right now.
COSTELLO: I'll bet you.
KING: Carol Costello, Carol thank you very much. And remember, we're here every weekday afternoon from 4:00 to 6:00 eastern and we're back at 7:00 p.m. eastern, that's just one hour from now. Until then I'm John King in THE SITUATION ROOM. "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right now. Lou?
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