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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Lebanese Official Assassinated; Weekend Summit in Iran; American City Taken Steps on its Own to Rebuff Illegal Immigration; Chinese Government Pledging Nuclear Cooperation With India; Pete King Interview; Tyler Drumheller Interview
Aired November 21, 2006 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, an anti-Syrian Lebanese official assassinated in Beirut, further destabilizing a country in which Syria and Iran are trying to rip control from its democratically-elected government.
A new Syrian-Iran alliance would leave Iraq and more than 140,000 American troops caught in the middle. What does it mean for peace and stability in the Mideast? Congressman Pete King of the House International Relations Committee joins us.
All of that and a great deal more straight ahead here tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT, news, debate and opinion for Tuesday, November 21st.
Live in New York, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening, everybody.
A leading anti-Syrian Lebanese government official today shot dead in Beirut. His assassination further threatens stability in a region in which Syria and Iran are increasing their influence. The official, Pierre Gemayel, is the fifth anti-Syrian public figure to be murdered in Lebanon over the past two years.
President Bush today condemned that attack and called for an immediate investigation.
And the restoration of diplomatic relations between Syria and Iraq and a possible summit meeting with Iran only leading to more problems for U.S. policy in the Middle East.
Brent Sadler reports tonight on the aftermath of the assassination and Syria's denial of any role in that murder.
Aneesh Raman reports on what a Syrian-Iranian alliance could mean to Iraq and to U.S. policy and troops.
Jamie McIntyre tonight reports on the weekend summit the United States doesn't want to occur.
Iraq and Iran sit down. Syria may join them.
We begin tonight with Brent Sadler from Beirut -- Brent. BRENT SADLER, CNN BEIRUT BUREAU CHIEF: Thanks, Lou.
Another serious blow against the U.S.-backed government of Lebanese prime minister Fouad Siniora. The assassination of one of his key cabinet ministers, the young industry minister, really does set the scene for increased political division here and possibly more violence. Downtown Beirut here largely deserted in the wake of this latest political assassination.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SADLER (voice-over): It was a highly organization professional assassination. The young Christian Lebanese MP, Pierre Gemayel, died in a hail of bullets after his car was rammed, shot at close range in what's being described by many as a cold-blooded murder to ignite a political firestorm and topple the Western-backed government.
Lebanon's national security may now be hanging on a thread in the wake of this latest murder of a leading anti-Syrian Lebanese politician.
FOUAD SINIORA, LEBANESE PRIME MINISTER (through translator): This attack against one of the symbols of freedom in Lebanon will make us more determined and committed to the freedom of this country and to the independence and sovereignty of this country.
SADLER: Embattled prime minister Fouad Siniora pledges to stand firm, but his government was already rocked by resignations from his cabinet, mostly by allies of Syria, and facing political assault by an Hezbollah-led opposition, threatening street protests to bring down the ruling coalition. Leader of the parliamentary majority, Saad Hariri, was holding a news conference defending Siniora's government when he received a handwritten note alerting him to the deadly attack.
SAAD HARIRI, LEADER, PARLIAMENTARY MAJORITY (through translator): I've been told that minister Pierre Gemayel has been shot.
SADLER: Clearly shaken, he accused Syria of having a hand in the killing.
HARIRI: I am afraid that these assassinations will never stop until we have an international tribunal to prosecute the people who killed all those who died last year and also Pierre Gemayel.
SADLER: Outside the hospital where the minister died, anger and sorrow, with promises from the pro-Syrian president, Emile Lahoud, to hunt down what he called terrorists.
EMILE LAHOUD, LEBANESE PRESIDENT (through translator): This terrorist attack will not pass unpunished. We will do everything we can to unmask the criminals who carried out this crime against all Lebanese.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SADLER: U.S.-backed parliamentary majority leader Saad Hariri says he fears yet more attacks, but says the killers should also have fear of justice, justice that Hariri says is on its way to the formation of an international tribunal that's currently going through the United Nations Security Council -- Lou.
DOBBS: Brent, thank you very much.
Brent Sadler reporting from Beirut.
The news of the Gemayel assassination spread quickly through the Lebanese capital today. Supporters of the anti-Syrian politician took to the streets. They were venting their anger at yet another political assassination in Beirut.
Hundreds gathered at the hospital where Gemayel was taken. They shouted slogans condemning Syria, Hezbollah and other factions in Lebanon.
President Bush is tonight on his way back to the White House after his trip to Asia. He blames Syria and Iran today for trying to destabilize Lebanon. President Bush didn't specifically blame Iran or Syria for Gemayel's assassination, but did call for a complete investigation of what he called those people and those forces responsible.
Suzanne Malveaux reports now from the White House -- Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, President Bush, of course, is returning to Washington, heading back after a 10-day trip to Asia. And, of course, also talking to U.S. troops in Hawaii.
Now, this assassination by a Lebanese cabinet minister certainly underscores the volatility of the region and underscores the challenge this president faces, having declared bringing democracy to the Middle East as the centerpiece of his foreign policy agenda. It also comes at a time when the Lebanese government has been severely weakened after a volley of attacks between Israel and Hezbollah threatened all- out war over the summer.
Today we heard Mr. Bush take a strong stand against the assassination and suggesting that Syria and Iran played a role.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We support the Siniora government and its democracy, and we support the Lebanese people's desire to live in peace, and we support their efforts to defend their democracy against attempts by Syria, Iran and allies to foment instability and violence in that important country. I call for a full investigation of the murder to identify those people and those forces behind the killing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: And Lou, the president also called for an investigation of the U.N. Security Council for the assassination of former Lebanese prime minister Rafik Hariri. The big question, Lou, of course, is whether or not the president really has any political muscle on the international stage considering he went to Asia without that trade legislation regarding Vietnam from Congress. He came back from Asia, of course, not having that strong written statement from world leaders regarding North Korea -- Lou.
DOBBS: Thank you very much.
Suzanne Malveaux from the White House.
The U.S. ambassador to the United States, John Bolton, today said the killing of the Lebanese minister highlights the urgent need for the United Nations to establish a tribunal to investigate and prosecute those responsible for political assassination. Emphasizing the seriousness of this crisis, Ambassador Bolton showed little patience for questions today from some in the news media.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
QUESTION: Ambassador, there will be those voices on the Security Council who say now is not the time to push ahead with the tribunal given the instability in Lebanon.
JOHN BOLTON, U.S. AMB. TO U.N.: Instability? They're killing people in Lebanon. They're assassinating political leaders.
Not the time to seek justice? There may be those on the Security Council who say it. Let them step forward and say it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Do you have any fears looking at this from the outside as the U.S. ambassador to the U.N. that as a result of these political assassinations, there will be another civil conflict in Lebanon soon?
BOLTON: Ms. Gorani, don't you think that assassination amounts to civil conflict now? What else would you call it?
Those responsible are conducting war against the government of Lebanon and against the pro-democracy forces. The question is whether the pro-democracy forces can withstand this. And it seems to me it is the duty of the Security Council to stand with them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Ambassador Bolton also called upon countries in the region to unite in investigating the Gemayel assassination and to bring whoever is responsible to justice.
Iran tonight moving to blunt U.S. power and raise its influence in the Middle East. Iran has invited the Syrian president for talks this week in Tehran during a visit by Iraq's president.
Aneesh Raman reports from Tehran -- Aneesh.
ANEESH RAMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, good evening.
It's an alliance many in the West would like to break, but Iran and Syria now seem closer than ever.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RAMAN (voice-over): Both support Lebanon's Hezbollah and both claimed proxy victories after the Israel-Hezbollah war. And now both are quite publicly turning their focus to Iraq.
First came the historic trip to Baghdad by Syria's foreign minister, there to restore full diplomatic ties with Iraq. And now word Iraq's president, Jalal Talabani, will be heading to Tehran this weekend to meet with Iran's president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.
The Bush administration is skeptical the talks will lead to change on the ground. But if nothing else, it shows Iran and Syria pushing ahead with Iraq policies of their own without the U.S.
Iraq is consumed with sectarian violence, fueled in part, the White House says, by Iranian influence. Iranians say it's because of the U.S. but don't see the U.S. leaving Iraq as the exclusive solution.
Iran is a country President Bush has called unambiguously evil.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
RAMAN: While the leadership here doesn't yet seem eager to sit down and talk with the U.S. just because they're asked, the people are hoping that might just happen, not just to bring stability to Iraq, but perhaps to bring American investment to a faltering Iranian economy -- Lou.
DOBBS: Aneesh Raman reporting from Tehran.
Iran will meet with Iraq this weekend, and Syria has been invited to join as well. The United States sees Iran and Syria as destabilizing influences in the region, and the effort to sit down with neighboring states has not changed that view.
Jamie McIntyre reports now from the Pentagon.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When the U.S. military is looking for an explanation for the rising violence in Iraq, it often points the finger directly at two of Iraq's neighbors.
GEN. GEORGE CASEY, COMMANDER, MULTINATIONAL FORCE, IRAQ: Both Iran and Syria continue to be decidedly unhelpful by providing support to the different extremist and terrorist groups operating inside Iraq. MCINTYRE: In testimony before the Senate last week, CIA director General Michael Hayden cited what he called the Iranian hand as a formidable obstacle to peace in Iraq.
GEN. MICHAEL HAYDEN, CIA DIRECTOR: It appears to be growing, and Iranian ambitions in Iraq seem to be expanding. With regard to Syria, it's sometimes hard to judge the distinction between incompetence and malevolence with regard to what goes on in Syria that may affect the situation in Iraq.
MCINTYRE: The United States claims between 70 and 100 foreign fighters cross the Syrian borders each month to join insurgents. And U.S. commanders tell CNN's Barbara Starr, now traveling in the region, that a rogue element of as many as 10,000 Shia militia fighters are being funded by Iran.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Officials here say that they now believe that breakaway element is largely influenced by Iran, which is providing weapons, money and training inside of Iraq. It's something that is a matter of great concern here.
MCINTYRE: So why are Iran and Syria signaling they might be willing to take steps such as tightening their border or cracking down on al Qaeda terrorists? While it's in both countries' long-term interests to have a stable Iraq, analysts say Iran's power play is aimed at diminishing U.S. influence and making it look like the regional superpower.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But the whole point of this exercise is for Iran and Syria to show that they do not need U.S.'s approval for approaching the Iraqi government or for having their own peace plan and stability plan for Iraq.
MCINTYRE: The U.S. recognizes Iraq needs good relations with its neighbors and says the proof will be if both countries stop funding terrorists and fomenting anti-U.S. and Iraqi violence.
NICHOLAS BURNS, STATE DEPT. SPOKESMAN: The challenge really is to the leadership of Tehran and Damascus to demonstrate that they have good faith here. It's not just a remark about meeting. It's to see some substantial change, policy change on the ground. That's what everyone is looking for.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: It remains to be seen just how much Iran can influence the factions it supports in Iraq and how willing and able Syria is to stop the flow of foreign fighters across its border. But perhaps the bigger question is what those countries might want from Iraq in return -- Lou.
DOBBS: Jamie, thank you very much. Indeed, a number of questions arise.
Jamie McIntyre reporting from the Pentagon tonight.
Thank you, Jamie.
And that brings us to the subject of our poll. The question tonight is, we'd like to know whether you believe the United States missed a leadership opportunity in failing to be the nation to call for that summit among Iraq, Iran and Syria. Yes or no?
Cast your vote at LouDobbs.com. We'll have the results here later.
Up next, another American city tired of federal inaction taking steps on its own to rebuff illegal immigration. We'll have that report.
The border fence bill signed by the president. It's now a law signed just before the election, but there is a little problem with that fence. Apparently, this administration wants to recant.
We'll have that exclusive report.
And an American company has been outfitting communist Chinese police with the technology to spy on Chinese citizens, and they may not be breaking any laws in doing so.
We'll have that report and all of the day's news still ahead here.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Well, we can tell you about some new efforts tonight to secure our borders and to rebuff illegal immigration. However, these efforts originate not in Washington, D.C., but rather another community trying to deal with the issue that the federal government refuses to resolve.
And there are serious new doubts tonight about whether we'll ever see that border fence, that 700-mile fence. You remember, that Congress passed and the president signed just before Election Day?
Casey Wian tonight reports from Pahrump, Nevada, where the locals say they'll take action if the federal government can't or won't.
And Bill Tucker reports on whether the federal government is at all committed to building that promised 700-mile fence along that 2,000-mile border with Mexico.
We begin tonight with Casey Wian in Pahrump, Nevada -- Casey.
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, dozens of cities from Hazleton, Pennsylvania, to Farmers Branch, Texas, to Escondido, California, are trying to crack down on illegal immigration. Add Pahrump, Nevada, to that list.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) WIAN (voice-over): Pahrump is a city of 33,000, about 60 miles west of Las Vegas, Nevada. It's seemingly light years away from the nation's border security crisis.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The motion carries 3-2.
(APPLAUSE)
WIAN: But this month, Pahrump's civic leaders jumped into the fray, approving an ordinance denying taxpayer-funded benefits to illegal aliens, outlawing the display of a lone foreign flag, and declaring English the town's official language.
MICHAEL MIRAGLIA, PAHRUMP BOARD MEMBER: We're in America. We're speaking American English. And that's the way it should be. You know, if we go to Mexico, are they going to accommodate us?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is America. One language only.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Amen.
(APPLAUSE)
WIAN: The debate in Pahrump has mirrored the nation's struggle to cope with the consequences of illegal immigration. Many in town say the measures go too far.
MARIA ANDERSON, PAHRUMP RESIDENT: I think it makes them look little. I think it's very un-American since this country's been founded by immigrants.
ASST. SHERIFF BILL WELDON, NYE COUNTY, NEVADA: I don't know how they're going to get somebody to go out and enforce a statute like that that's so convoluted and broad.
WIAN: Foreign flags will be allowed to fly in Pahrump as long as they're below an American flag. The measure is in response to the street protests earlier this year where Mexican flags often outnumber the stars and stripes. Outside, activists say the restriction is unconstitutional.
LEE ROWLAND, ACLU: Our freedom is based on our ability to express ourselves as Americans. And as Americans, that has a lot of meanings to a lot of people.
WIAN: Others have more practical concerns.
GABRIEL ADAME, PAHRUMP RESIDENT: Are we going to have a language cop around here? You know, so are you going to ticket me for -- because I said a taco? How am I going to order a taco salad?
WIAN: Nevada state lawmakers are planning to introduce similar legislation statewide.
(END VIDEOTAPE) WIAN: One ordinance supporter says Pahrump's new laws are part of a groundswell, intended to force the federal government to finally secure the borders of the United States -- Lou.
DOBBS: I have to say, that fellow concerned about whether or not he could order a taco salad or not, his life is getting complicated there in Pahrump.
What is the sense there? It's going to be challenged and taken on by the ACLU, La Raza, LULAC and all the socioethnic centric groups trying to keep those borders wide open?
WIAN: The ACLU has indicated they do plan to challenge some of the provisions of these new laws. The city leaders who support these new laws, though, say they're sticking to their guns. They want to send a strong message to the federal government -- Lou.
DOBBS: Well, they and a lot of other people want to get -- get the attention of this newly-elected Congress. It will be interesting to see what transpires in the months ahead.
Thank you very much.
Casey Wian.
WIAN: Right.
DOBBS: As Casey just reported, the Pahrump Town Council passed a law making it illegal to fly the flag of a foreign nation alone or above the American flag. Now, what's interesting is -- and a lot of people who are putting up some flags around the country, they may not know this. But federal law already protects the American flag from various forms of desecration, and the law's clear concerning the appropriate orientation and display of the American flag, stating clearly and unequivocally that no other flag or pennant may ever be placed above the flag of the United States.
A setback tonight for the town of Memoron (ph), New York, and its fight against illegal immigration. Federal district court judge Colleen McMahon ruled the town's decision to crack down on illegal alien day laborers is, in her words, "racially discriminatory."
In her ruling, the judge wrote that, "One can't infer the race- based nature of the campaign."
The ruling is being hailed as a major victory by the Puerto Rican Legal Defense Fund. It says the ruling makes clear the trouble the local governments have adopting laws and policies intended to control illegal immigration and illegal alien day laborers.
One wonders why they would be so excited about that.
President Bush today signed the bill for a border fence before the election. Cynics called it an election year ploy. It turns out they may have something. They noted that Congress had approved only 700 miles of fencing covering just about a third of the border with Mexico and had failed to fully fund it. Now, with the election behind us, many say it will simply never be built.
Bill Tucker reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The building of this fence along the U.S. border with Mexico is a construction project that is going nowhere fast. Congress authorized the building of the fence.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The ayes are 83, the nays are 16.
TUCKER: Bush signed it into law. But no one wants to pay for it. Proof, critics of the administration say, that neither the president or Congress has any intention of building a fence or of cracking down on illegal immigration.
T.J. BONNER, NATIONAL BORDER CONTROL COUNCIL: I think it's clear that the American public has the will to secure our borders. The real question is, do our elected politicians share that will? And sadly, the answer is no.
TUCKER: Incoming chairman of the House Homeland security Committee Bennie Thompson has already made it clear that he doesn't want a physical fence along the border with Mexico. He believes in a virtual fence.
That puts him on the same page with Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff, who is also promoting technology as the answer to securing the border. An answer that one former INS agent finds questionable.
MICHAEL CUTLER, FMR. INS AGENT: A virtual fence will stop virtually no illegal aliens. But yet this is the way of playing the usual Washington shell game. You provide the public with an illusion that you're addressing the issue, it usually involves the expenditure of lots of taxpayer money, and you maintain the status quo all at the same time.
TUCKER: The official position from DHS is that it will build whatever Congress appropriates.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: Meaning, quite simply, that the amount of fence built will depend on the amount of money allocated for the building of that fence. And for now, only slightly more than $1 billion has been allocated, and that for 28 miles of fence in Arizona, Lou, that will be a combination of physical and virtual fencing.
And we should point here that -- point out here, in the bill that the president signed, it only authorized a billion dollars. It did not allocate a billion dollars to the project.
DOBBS: And it left a great discretion to the Homeland Security Department's secretary -- Michael Chertoff will be pleased to know this -- great discretion as to how he makes his decisions between fencing and other demands for money in the time of the good Homeland Security Department.
We also should point out that that virtual fence is a $2 billion project and that 28 miles under discussion, well, it's government at work again. Two billion dollars going to Boeing as the principal contractor. We're looking at about 28 miles of virtual fencing. But that isn't virtual money, we know that.
Bill Tucker, thank you very much.
Well, coming up here next, I'll be asking Republican Congressman Pete King, the outgoing chairman of the Homeland Security Committee, whether a much-needed border fence will ever be built.
And this American company may be selling sensitive technology to communist China that's used to invade the privacy of Chinese citizens.
We'll have a special report for you on what's right and what's wrong, as well as what's lawful.
And President Bush courting India with a civilian nuclear energy technology swap deal. Now it's very possible India could be turning around and sharing all of that technology with, you guessed it, communist China. U.S. policy at work.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Critics are charging that some American companies are exporting sensitive technology to communist China. In this case, technology that tracks dissidents and censors e-mail. U.S. companies say they are not breaking export laws because the technology was not designed for that specific purpose.
Kitty Pilgrim has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Five years ago, China's police had very low-tech equipment. But now Chinese police can stop people on the street and scan their identity card with a hand-held device and review their police record.
Human rights advocates are outraged. They say dissidents have been jailed because of it, and they say some of the technology to do this was marketed and sold directly to the Chinese police by a U.S. company, Cisco.
A commerce official today said they can't comment on Cisco, but U.S. products that are exclusively or primarily used for crime detection and control cannot be legally exported to China. Low-tech items, for example, handcuffs, cannot be exported. But some brand-new technology has not been banned.
Cisco did not return repeated calls about this product, but told us in a letter late last week, "Cisco complies with all U.S. government regulations which prohibit sale of our products to certain destinations; or to users who misuse our products."
But some in Congress say the export bans are too loosely interpreted by the Commerce Department.
REP. TOM LANTOS, (D) CALIFORNIA: When we in Congress passed the Tiananmen Sanctions Act in 1989, we had in mind complete control over the export of products that a police state can use. We didn't only have in mind very simple devices.
PILGRIM: An official today saying, "Commerce is reviewing the crime control export controls to see whether there are new technologies for crime control purposes that are not currently controlled to make sure that we are keeping pace with technology."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Well, nearly a third of Cisco shareholders voted for a resolution demanding that the company be more open about what products it sells to China.
And Congressman Lantos told us today he wants to start hearings in January, Lou, to tighten up the export rules.
DOBBS: Well, you know, I don't know what to say. I don't even know what in the world the Commerce Department was trying to say. If we're going to make English the official language of this nation, perhaps a great place would be to start with the U.S. government. That's incomprehensible drivel.
PILGRIM: Yes. Well, they say the product has to be used exclusively for crime control if they want to ban it. You can use it if you like.
DOBBS: Yes, there was a time when people actually said what they meant in this country. That time has apparently since past, certainly on the part of this government.
Kitty, thank you very much.
Time now for sock of your thoughts.
Clint in Pennsylvania: "I think the only way one can explain the United States holding joint naval maneuvers with communist China is to quote Forrest Gump, "Stupid is as stupid does.""
John in New Hampshire: "Lou, thank you for standing up for the middle class. I sincerely with that we had some folks down in Washington that would watch your program, take notes, then implement some badly needed reforms to favor our middle class." I think we all do.
And Corey in Pennsylvania: "If the term "Lou Dobbs Democrat" refers to educated voters who want to secure our borders and save the middle class, then I am proud to be a "Lou Dobbs Democrat!""
We're proud to have you.
And we need some Lou Dobbs independents and some Lou Dobbs Republicans. Maybe we can get this thing going.
E-mail us at LouDobbs.com. We'll have more of your thoughts coming up here later. Each of you whose e-mail is read here, receives a copy of my new book, "war on the Middle Class."
Coming up next, red storm rising. China pledging nuclear cooperation with India. That's right. We just did the little deal with India that will give China access through India to our nuclear technology.
And will a border fence ever be built? The outgoing chairman of the Homeland Security Committee, Congressman Pete King joins us here. You're going to find what he has to say about what's happening in Washington, D.C. -- if you're not already a little troubled, a little frustrated, you're going to be more so. I guarantee you.
And Tyler Drumheller, the CIA agent who accused the Bush administration of lying to the American people about the reasons for going to Iraq, is our guest. He is the author of the important new book, "On the Brink".
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Tonight's top stories. A leading anti-Syrian Lebanese government official assassinated in Beirut. The murder further threatened stability in the region. Syria and Iran, trying to increase their influence. President Bush in Hawaii today, condemning that assassination and calling for an immediate investigation and United Nations action.
The restoration of diplomatic relations between Syria and Iraq, a possible summit meeting to include Iran, may make the crisis in the Middle East, some say, worse. Others say there is a prospect for success, it's just not U.S. led.
In other important news tonight, a fourth teenage girl has died from injuries suffered in a school bus crash in Huntsville, Alabama. Rescuers pulled 40 high school students from that bus. Investigators say it hurtled off a freeway and rolled over after being sideswiped by a small car.
Two dozen students were also injured, several of them critically. The bus driver survived, but in serious condition. The National Traffic Safety Board is now trying to determine if safety belts would have reduced the number of fatalities and injuries.
A winner has been declared in that disputed Florida Congressional election, and it's Republican Vern Buchanan. Democrat Christine Jennings is none too happy about the result, and she has filed, of course, a lawsuit. She and her attorneys, claiming the number of undervotes proves there was a problem with the electronic voting machines. Buchanan attorneys call that nonsense.
Word tonight that an ex-Russian spy and fierce critic of the Kremlin was likely not poisoned with metal thallium, as had first been reported. Doctors in London are testing Alexander Litvinenko for other substances that might have caused his illness. They say radioactive thallium does remain a possibility.
On the day on which he was poisoned, he met with two Russian contacts at a sushi restaurant. Friends claim the Russian government is behind the poisoning. The Kremlin denies any involvement.
New evidence tonight of the rising challenge posed to the United States by communist China. In a direct move to counter Washington influence, the Chinese government is pledging nuclear cooperation with India, only days after the United States approved the Bush administration's nuclear technology transfer deal with India.
Christine Romans reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Chinese President Hu Jintao in India, the first visit of a Chinese leader in a decade. Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and President Hu pledging to double their already exploding trade to $40 billion in less than four years.
MANMOHAN SINGH, INDIAN PRIME MINISTER: Cooperation between India and China transcends the bilateral and has global significance.
ROMANS: Their foreign ministers exchanging a stack of signed deals and a pledge to step up cooperation on civilian nuclear energy, just days after the Senate approved an American nuclear deal with India, a deal many saw as a giveaway to secure India as a counterweight to Chinese influence.
DAVID ALBRIGHT, INST. FOR SCIENCE AND INTL. SEC.: Certainly it contradicts some of the reasons why the United States wants their nuclear cooperation deal with India, namely to kind of get India on our side in these foreign policy, strategic debates and situations in Asia.
ROMANS: But the State Department downplayed the significance of India/China nuclear cooperation, saying it won't affect U.S. strategy.
Still, critics say nuclear ties between China and India allow Beijing to blunt American influence, and gives India some bargaining power with the United States. LEONOR TOMERO, CTR. FOR ARMS CONTROL AND NON-PROLIF.: This is added leverage for India in pressing the U.S. to remove any provisions that are in legislation that India objects to.
ROMANS: Provisions like inspections and restrictions on its ties to Iran. Indeed, India, eager to remain independent of the United States and at the same time counter Chinese influence in Pakistan. Hu Jintao heads straight there from India.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: The bottom line, says David Albright, who would have thought, when the U.S. inked its nuclear trade deal with India a year ago, that China could turn out to be the big winner in that trade deal.
DOBBS: I thought the United States would be the big winner, because we were going to exchange our nuclear technology for mangoes from India. I thought we were sort of the clear-cut winner in this brilliant display of foreign policy strategy.
ROMANS: There's a lot of winners today. But I'm afraid mango consumers don't seem to be the big winner.
DOBBS: This -- I have to say, there should be a Congressional investigation, perhaps of Congress itself. But the idea that we call this a State Department?
This is a bastion of some of the most absurd thinking, unless they're working for India and China. Maybe we're not quite aware of what their goals are. That organization is a joke and should, I would think, be somewhat embarrassed. But shame and embarrassment in short supply as a response in Washington these days.
ROMANS: They say that India is free to do deals with whomever it chooses, Lou, and it doesn't change U.S. strategy.
DOBBS: Yes, you know, and it's really -- I think, really big of the State Department to acknowledge that India is a sovereign country. That's the kind of revelation that I love and I hope that plays into their thinking at some point.
ROMANS: It certainly is a twist in the India nuclear deal, isn't it?
DOBBS: Amazing. Christine, thanks.
ROMANS: You're welcome.
DOBBS: Christine Romans.
Coming up next here, the battle over that border fence. The chairman of the Homeland Security Committee will be joining us. Congressman Pete King, he had a meeting that is -- shall we say -- revelatory about this administration's intentions and what passes for thinking. And a former CIA agent will be here to talk about what needs to change in that agency to make it work and what needs to change in this government to make it work. Tyler Drumheller is the author of the important new book "On The Brink." He joins us here next.
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DOBBS: My next guest joins us to talk about the Bush administration's plans to deal with the fact that it signed into law a legislation to build 700 miles of border fence along this country's border with Mexico. New York's Congressman Pete King is the chairman of the Homeland Security Committee. He joins us tonight from Long Island.
Mr. Chairman, good to have you with us.
REP. PETE KING (R-NY), CHMN., HOMELAND SEC. CMTE.: It's good to be with you, and I'm only going to be chairman for another six weeks.
DOBBS: Well, we'll still talk to you even when you're not chair. How's that?
KING: OK, thank you. Thank you.
DOBBS: Let's turn to the issue, first, of border security and you played a major role in that. You, as I understand it, just had a meeting with Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff and what you heard wasn't so good.
KING: Well, Lou, in the final 10 days of the election, the president signed actually my legislation to build a double fence 700 miles long along the Mexican government, covering almost all of Arizona and part of Texas. And then when the Democrats took over, the incoming chairman, Bennie Thompson, was talking about scaling back the fence.
And then, apparently, he met with Secretary Chertoff, and then after that there was a meeting with my staff and the Homeland Security Department staff and they wanted actually to pursue legislation which would have reduced the fence from 700 miles to 370 miles.
And then I had a subsequent meeting with Secretary Chertoff, and his belief is that he doesn't believe the department has the funding or the ability to do the 700 miles, and he wanted us to pass legislation to scale it back and include a virtual fence instead.
I told him I could not support that, that we had made a commitment to the American people for 700 miles. We had done this right before the election, and to now, within six weeks of the election or a month of the election, to be reneging would be looked upon with outrage by the American people.
It's bad politics, it's a bad signal to send, and it's bad policy. We need that fence. And if, for some reason, money starts to drain out next year or the following year, then come back and ask Congress for more money. There's no way we can scale that back. DOBBS: So the Homeland Security secretary, Michael Chertoff, who talks about things like operational security and the end of catch and release when they're not catching about a million people a year on that border, wants to go back on legislation within just about a month of its having been passed?
KING: Well, listen, I think Mike Chertoff is well-intentioned on this. He doesn't believe that 700 miles is possible. I believe it is. And not only that, we passed the legislation, we have to make it work. And so I told him clearly that I would not support any attempt to scale it back and I've directed my staff not to even begin any negotiations or talks.
As far as I'm concerned, this is over with. If there were objections, then we shouldn't have had the legislation signed. Well, you know, you and I have discussed this before. I believe that illegal immigration is a homeland security issue, a national security issue, a social issue and an economic issue.
Maybe more important than all of that, it reflects a loss of faith of the American people in our government. And that would only be exacerbated if we ever reneged on a commitment that was made on such an important issue.
DOBBS: Well, let me ask you -- you're only going to be chairman for another six weeks, as you point out. Let me ask -- let's talk truth here tonight, truth to power. I'll talk with power about truth to power. How's that? We have $25 billion in drugs, as the DEA estimates, flowing into this country. Mexico is the leading source of methamphetamines, heroin, cocaine, marijuana, coming into this country.
It is absolutely vulnerable, by any standard, to radical Islamist terrorists crossing that border. It is also the source of about -- pick the number, but about a million illegal aliens entering this country every year. How can we even pretend that Michael Chertoff, the secretary of Homeland Security, is presiding over anything other than an utter sham?
KING: Well, Secretary Chertoff has taken steps. He just doesn't believe the fence is that essential.
DOBBS: Right.
KING: I believe it is. We need more border patrol agents, more detention facilities, we have to go after employers, we have to have a fence, we have to use UAV, we have to use the military.
DOBBS: Well, let's assume that the fence doesn't work. How can you be the secretary of Homeland Security and leave 300 million Americans vulnerable to terrorist attack and actually help perpetuate a losing war on drugs in this country, as well as, just by tacit -- by inaction, condone illegal entry of a million people into this country a year?
KING: Well, actually, I mean, Secretary Chertoff has improved the situation. I give him credit for that. I really do. I mean, he's trying. I just think that he doesn't realize the importance of having the fence and also the absolute anger and rage that the American people have.
DOBBS: Yes, he has...
KING: And, Lou, so I'm not...
DOBBS: I'm sorry. Go ahead.
KING: No, I'm just saying that I think it's important that Congress has to keep the pressure on, whether I'm in the majority or the minority, as I'll be six weeks from now. We have to keep this fight going and you have to keep it going.
But I don't know if everyone at all levels of government realizes the Homeland Security impact so much as they believe that we have to, you know, have better relations with Mexico and we have to worry about the 12 million who are now here illegally and we have to worry about the people who, quote, unquote, "are doing jobs that Americans won't do."
I think that logic is totally faulty. That thinking is totally faulty, and we have to correct it, so I can only speak for myself. I was one of those that led the fight against the president's legislation. I was the one who secured the fence going through the Congress. I'm not going to allow it to be repealed, and we have to go after employers and we have to have strict sanctions on employers who hire these people.
DOBBS: By the way, you handily defeated your opponent out there in Long Island. "Newsday," the newspaper -- the local newspaper there -- "Newsday" worked against you pretty hard out there. Did you send them some roses after you won?
KING: Yes, no, not -- I sent them thorns. What -- listen, they came after me on two main issues, one that I was for terrorist profiling at the airports, and secondly, that I was opposed to any type of amnesty on immigration. Their reporters, their editorial writers, their news editors all worked against me.
And on election night, I dedicated my victory to "Newsday," and on a very serious note, I said that I look upon this as a mandate for me to continue my policy of absolutely opposing amnesty and doing all we can to secure the borders and to do profiling and wiretapping of terrorists.
DOBBS: Well, we wish you good luck, as always, Congressman, and we look forward to talking to you again. And thanks for bringing to our attention the attitude, the view, and the apparently efforts of this administration and particularly Michael Chertoff in wanting to roll back the people's business just a little more than a month after we determined it, bypassing a law and having it signed by the president. That's fascinating.
Congressman Pete King, always a pleasure to talk with you. Thank you.
KING: Thank you, Lou, and have a happy Thanksgiving.
DOBBS: You too.
A reminder now to vote in our poll. Do you believe the United States missed a leadership opportunity in failing to be the nation to call for the summit among Iraq, Iran and Syria? Yes or no. Please cast your vote at LouDobbs.com. We'll have the results upcoming.
Next here, a former CIA agent openly criticizing the Bush administration and this government for pre-war intelligence or lack of it. I'll be talking with Tyler Drumheller. He is the author of an important new book. We'll be talking about the mistakes that led us to Iraq. Stay with us.
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DOBBS: My guest tonight is the former head of the CIA's European operations. Tyler Drumheller is the author of an important new book. The book is "On the Brink." He says the Bush administration ignored pre-war intelligence about Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program and left the CIA, as he puts it, to pick up the pieces. Tyler, good to have you here.
TYLER DRUMHELLER, AUTHOR: Thank you for having me.
DOBBS: This is -- and you lay out a clear -- I was going to say map, but a clear chart of what turned out not to be a very clever path toward Iraq.
How could we be so wrong, get it so wrong -- the agency of which you were such an important part, get it so wrong?
DRUMHELLER: Well, the problem was that the whole matter was stood on its head. Instead of the intelligence coming to them and talking about -- and bringing up the problem and then reacting to the problem, they came in with a preconception and looked for intelligence to fit it. And intelligence that didn't fit it wasn't greeted well. And so they chose some very bad reporting to be the centerpiece of their plan. And they ignored some other -- ignored or actually altered a little bit, some of the other reporting.
DOBBS: Some of the principles in this -- let's start with Secretary of State Colin Powell, your judgment.
DRUMHELLER: I don't think he knew. I think he is a victim of this in a way. Although I think he suspected because he kept asking them. If he kept asking them, he must have known. He's a smart guy. He had to see there were a lot of...
DOBBS: ... George Tenet?
DRUMHELLER: George was a very good director in the '90s. I think he should have probably left in 2000. We were good friends. I think he became too caught up in the administration. And frankly, there was a feeling that if they -- they really just needed the reason to go to war. There was -- they really did believe there was something in Baghdad. They didn't know what it was and...
DOBBS: ... And in fairness, it was not a single, insular view on the part of the U.S. intelligence.
DRUMHELLER: No, I believed that for a long time until we got into it with the sources, we were asked to verify some of the sources that were involved and saw that most of them were fabricated.
DOBBS: About U.S. intelligence moving forward, you write in your book, looking to the future here, "so far in the shakeup of our intelligence community that is quite correctly" -- if we could put this up -- "So far the shakeup of our intelligence community that has quite correctly been undertaken by Congress has only repeated the mistakes of the past. It has purged and repackaged, not truly reformed."
That's scary stuff, Tyler.
DRUMHELLER: Well, there were changes that need to be made at the end of the Cold War. The agency and the entire intelligence community needs to be revamped to look at the modern, transnational issues and how they relate to the Pentagon and all that. And that didn't take place.
DOBBS: What some are saying is an attempted assassination on the part of the Russians. The assassination of a minister in Beirut, an anti-Syrian minister, Gemayel today, technology transfers to India, the nuclear technology, the subsequent follow-on deals with Communist China. Is there -- you as an intelligence expert and veteran, gathering intelligence is one thing. Discerning a policy is another. If you were looking at the United States right now, outside the United States, trying to analyze what we're doing, what would be your conclusion?
DRUMHELLER: I would conclude that everything the United States is based right now on domestic politics. Every issue addressed is addressed for a reason -- domestic policy, there's no set goal. There was a set goal at one time. I think it revolved around this sort of neoconservative view of spreading democracy. When that fell apart, there really wasn't anything else behind it. And now everything relates to an election or to a political decision here. And that's easy to play when you're a foreign power.
DOBBS: You're not making any of us feel any better, Tyler. But making us a heck of a lot wiser and knowledgeable. We thank you for the book, "On the Brink." Tyler Drumheller, thanks for being here.
DRUMHELLER: Thanks for having me.
DOBBS: Appreciate it. Coming up next, the results of our poll. We'll have more of your thoughts. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) DOBBS: The results of our poll, 86 percent of you say the United States did miss a leadership opportunity in failing to be the nation to call for that summit among Iraq, Iran and Syria.
Time now for one last e-mail.
Bud in Oklahoma wrote to say: "Lou, we can't control our borders until we can control the employers who hire illegal aliens and we can't control the employers until we control Congress. And we can't control Congress until we stop employers from donating millions to political campaigns."
You're right. Send us your thoughts at LouDobbs.com. Thanks for being with us. Please join us here tomorrow. For all of us, good night from New York. "THE SITUATION ROOM" begins now with John King -- John.
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