Return to Transcripts main page
Lou Dobbs Tonight
Marine Corps Says Wars In Iraq And Afghanistan Are Putting Too Much Strain On Troops; Slaughter Of Iraqi Civilians Worsens; President Bush Will Hold Talks With Iraqi Prime Minister Next Week; Mourners Remember Pierre Gemayel; Middle Class Americans Torn Between Buying Gifts And Finding Funds To Pay For Them
Aired November 22, 2006 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, the head of the Marine Corps says the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are putting too much strain on our troops.
And state governors want the federal government to pay the cost of jailing criminal illegal aliens. They say if the federal government can't keep illegal aliens out, they should pay to keep them locked up.
All of that and a great deal more straight ahead here tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT, news, debate and opinion for Wednesday, November 22nd.
Sitting in for Lou Dobbs, Kitty Pilgrim.
PILGRIM: Good evening, everybody.
A stark warning today from the top general in the Marine Corps. The war in Iraq and a Taliban resurgence in Afghanistan is putting a critical strain on our forces.
And President Bush will meet with the Iraqi prime minister next week in Jordan. They'll discuss the mounting pressure for the Iraq government to do more to stop the violence.
Jamie McIntyre reports from the Pentagon on the warning about our Marines.
Suzanne Malveaux reports from the White House on the president's upcoming meeting with the Iraqi prime minister.
And Brent Sadler reports on the fallout in Lebanon one day after the assassination.
We begin tonight with Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon -- Jamie.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, the Marine Corps's top general, James Conway, was pretty blunt, saying he doesn't really have a lot of options. He either needs more Marines or he needs to give the ones he has a break.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) MCINTYRE (voice-over): With some Marine units headed back for a fourth tour of duty in Iraq, the grind has prompted the new Marine Corps commandant, just one week into the job, to warn the burden on Marine families is too much.
GEN. JAMES CONWAY, MARINE CORPS COMMANDANT: I think we may lose some of those folks. I think that the families, the young Marines, sailors will say, that's -- that's just more than I think, you know, I'm willing to bear. And it could have some negative consequences for us in that regard.
MCINTYRE: General James Conway says something's got to give. Either send fewer Marines to war, or recruit more to increase the size of the corps. Currently there are roughly 180,000 Marines on active duty, and unlike ground troops in the Army, they serve seven-month combat tours, not a year. They're supposed to get 14 months to recover, but the interval is more like seven or all the months, basically because the unrelenting violence in Iraq has prevented planned U.S. troop withdrawals.
The strain is not just a personal hardship. It's forcing the Marine Corps to forego other critical missions as it concentrates solely on counterinsurgency operations.
CONWAY: We're not providing to the nation some of the other things that we should be able to do and virtually any other nature of contingency. We're not sending battalions like we used to for the mountain warfare training, the jungle training. We're not doing combined arms exercises that we used to do for the far (ph) maneuver types of activities that we have to be prepared to do.
MCINTYRE: At his confirmation hearing this summer, General Conway found an ally in Democrat Carl Levin, who will soon take over as chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee.
SEN. CARL LEVIN (D), MICHIGAN: But I believe there's quite justifiable angst in the Marine Corps that the supplemental funding will not keep pace with its needs, especially as the war drags on and equipment is used up. I share those concerns.
MCINTYRE: Currently, there are about 23,000 Marines in Iraq, all in Al Anbar Province, one of the most dangerous parts of the country. That includes 2,200 reinforcements just dispatched to the area to try to help keep insurgents in check.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: Now, General Conway is not yet ready to make any bold or expensive recommendations to increase the size of the Marine Corps. For one thing, he wants to see what shape the new Iraq policy might take. If it requires, for instance, fewer Marines, then he believes he can probably manage with the size force he has -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Jamie, how unusual is it for him to speak out like this? MCINTYRE: Well, you know, General Conway was a frontline commander in Iraq, and just before taking the job as Marine Corps commandant he was on the joint staff planning the war. So he has a pretty good handle.
And, of course, this debate over the size of the military has been going on for a while. The Marine Corps, the smallest military service, there's always been a question about whether you need to have more capacity in that service.
So, it's not unprecedented, but it would be very expensive if they decide to increase the size of the Marine Corps.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much.
Jamie McIntyre.
Well, insurgents have killed another one of our troops in Iraq. A soldier was killed by a roadside bomb in northern Iraq.
2,869 of our troops have been killed in Iraq since the war began, 21,778 have been wounded. And of those, 9,977 have been so seriously wounded they cannot return to duty.
Over 100 Iraqis were killed in violence there today, and the new report says October was a deadly month for Iraqis. More than 3,700 civilians were killed.
Michael Ware reports now from Baghdad.
Now, Michael, what's being done to try to bring the violence under control?
MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kitty, despite all the measures being taken, it seems nothing is able to control this violence. The United Nations has found in October more Iraqi men, women and children died than in any month since the U.S. invasion in 2003. That puts the total of civilian deaths here in Iraq, according to the U.N., at more than 13,500 in just four months.
Now, a lot of these deaths are coming as a result of the sectarian violence. We also see the American mission trying to shore up the new minister of interior and, of course, the prime minister, Nouri al-Maliki.
We also see them putting the Iraqi police through rescreening and retraining as a result of their infiltration by militias and death squads while there has been a dip in violence following the insurgent's holy month of Ramadan offensive. The battle for Baghdad, Operation Together Forward, continues as coalition forces try to reclaim the capital from Shia militias, death squads and insurgents.
In the meantime, 2,200 more Marines are being sent to western Anbar Province, where they're battling an al Qaeda-led insurgency. Nonetheless, more than 50 bodies were found on the streets of Baghdad this morning, and over 20 of them were blindfolded -- Kitty. PILGRIM: Michael Ware reporting from Baghdad tonight.
Now, President Bush will hold talks with the Iraqi prime minister next week. The president will meet with Nouri al-Maliki in Jordan.
Suzanne Malveaux reports from the White House -- Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kitty, this certainly is a significant development for these two leaders to meet face to face. You may recall the first time President Bush met Maliki, his surprise visit to Baghdad, he said that he looked in his eyes and he saw a man who he could work with and who he could trust.
Now, there has much that has happened since then. Both men's leadership question whether or not they can turn things around in Iraq.
Now, they are meeting in neutral territory, Amman, Jordan. They'll be hosted by King Abdullah. And the two leaders are going to focus on a number of things. But the priorities here, namely increasing the training of Iraqi security forces, priority number one; facilitating reconciliation between warring Iraqi groups; cracking down on these militias, as well as establishing how Iraq's neighbors will play a productive role in Iraq's future.
All of this, of course, Kitty, comes at a time when the president is under increasing pressure here at home to try to turn things around. There are three different reports that are going to be coming out in the next couple of weeks, one from the bipartisan commission, another one from the Pentagon, as well as an internal review.
There are also some develops, as well. The summit coming at a time when Iraq's neighbors are jockeying for position, as well as influence. We saw Monday Syria re-establishing diplomatic ties with Iraq after nearly a quarter century.
Also, this weekend, Iran's president is going to be hosting Iraq's president to be talking about joint talks. So there is some pressure for President Bush -- even more pressure to work with Iran and Syria in dealing with Iraq.
And finally, Kitty, Vice President Cheney is also going to be in the region this weekend. He is going to be in Saudi Arabia, of course, meeting with King Abdullah there. This is really an all-out effort, a diplomatic offensive, if you will, for this president and this administration to turn things around in that region -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Suzanne, there have been a number of very high-level meetings this week on Iraq. Is there some sort of sense that this is building and coming to a decision point?
MALVEAUX: Well, I would look for the next couple of weeks in terms of a decision point here, because what you're going to have is the confluence of many different events. One of them, of course, is going to be those three different studies that are coming out -- the bipartisan commission that Congress is in charge of; you've got the internal investigation, things within the administration; and, of course, the Pentagon's own report.
You're going to see recommendations coming from many different places over the next couple of weeks. And clearly there's been increased pressure on this president to move forward to change course in some kind of way.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much.
Suzanne Malveaux.
Now, President Bush called Lebanon's leader today to express his concern over the assassination of the leading cabinet minister in Beirut yesterday. The U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, John Bolton, characterized the assassination as an act of terrorism and said the United States will continue to support the Lebanese government.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN BOLTON, U.S. AMB. TO U.N.: With respect to the situation in Lebanon as a whole, obviously we think that these acts of terrorism have got to stop. And we're not going to do contingency planning on whether terrorists conduct other assassinations, but to extend, as the president and Secretary Rice have done, their full support for the democratically-elected government of Lebanon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: And in Lebanon today, mourners turned out to remember the latest victim of political violence. Pierre Gemayel, the leader of the anti-Syrian faction in the Lebanese government, was assassinated on the streets of Beirut yesterday.
Brent Sadler reports from Beirut.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRENT SADLER, CNN BEIRUT BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): The somber aftermath of Lebanon's latest political assassination, the body of young cabinet minister Pierre Gemayel is carried through the streets of his Christian ancestral home outside Beirut.
This time of anguish and sorrow on Lebanon's Independence Day tears at the emotions of these Gemayel followers, once part of a powerful armed militia in past wars.
Ahead of a funeral planned for Thursday, a potential flashpoint, Lebanon's security forces are now on high alert. Syria is being openly blamed for the Gemayel murder as well as the killings of four other leading anti-Syrian politicians and journalists over the past two years by many within the anti-Syrian ruling coalition led by embattled prime minister Fouad Siniora, a charge Syria denies.
(on camera): Politicians from all sides scramble to contain the fallout from this assassination, urging calm amid fears of an outbreak of brutal violence between Lebanon's sharply divided religious communities that sparked a civil war here during the 1970s and '80s.
(voice-over): Many political leaders here are now worried that Lebanon may be on the brink of being dragged into violent chaos. Mourners born after Lebanon's civil war say they are helpless in the face of unknown killers stalking their politicians.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're like all Lebanese; we are very sad. We can't do nothing. We just have to stay crying and looking for the truth.
SADLER (on camera): Politicians from all sides scrambled to contain the fallout from this assassination, urging calm amid fears of an outbreak of brutal violence between Lebanon's sharply-divided religious communities that sparked a civil war here during the 1970s and '80s.
(voice-over): In a sign of desperate times here, the Lebanese army sent armored vehicles along the main highway leading to the capital. Heavy security measures are meant to calm a nervous population.
But confidence has worn thin, especially among cabinet ministers who have now started to take refuge in the fortress-like home of assassinated former prime minister Rafik Hariri. A small army of guards, checkpoints, and explosives sniffer dogs seal off the mansions, protecting the late Hariri's son and political heir, Saad Hariri, from possible attack, along with some of his closes political allies.
SAAD HARIRI, LEADER, PARLIAMENTARY MAJORITY: I'm afraid that there -- there is still big threat on other ministers, and we should take all the precautions to -- to these ministers. And I -- and I believe that these assassins will not stop.
SADLER: They watch a bank of television screens to monitor local and international news.
Marwan Hamadeh survived an attempt on his life two years ago.
MARWAN HAMADEH, LEBANESE TELECOM MINISTER: Part of the battle is to protect yourself. Not individually, but to protect the government of Lebanon against destabilization through elimination.
SADLER: The fear factor now reaches the very top of the western- backed government confronting a Syria-backed Hezbollah-led opposition. Prime Minister Fouad Siniora now living inside his heavily-defended office complex, fearing a possible attack on his life, too.
Brent Sadler, CNN, Beirut.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Coming up next, the battle over who should pay for jailing criminal illegal aliens. Governors are demanding Washington pick up the tab, but they're facing fierce resistance. We'll have a report.
Also, communities around the country fighting illegal immigration are now being forced to fight in federal court.
We'll have a special report on that.
And the war on the middle class. The holiday shopping season is here. More Americans are making their lists and checking them twice.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: States are now joining communities all over the country in efforts to force the federal government to stop the flow of illegal aliens. Now, cities have passed laws to make it more difficult for illegals to find housing and jobs. And now governors want the federal government to pay the cost that states occur jailing criminal illegal aliens.
Casey Wian reports on why President Bush thought the feds should pay when he was a governor, but not anymore.
And Bill Tucker reports on how local crackdowns on illegals could have a more profound effect than anticipated.
We begin with Casey Wian in Los Angeles -- Casey.
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kitty, it's another dispute between the White House and California governor Arnold Schwarzenegger. They're arguing over who should pay the cost of jailing criminal illegal aliens.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN (voice-over): California Republican governor Arnold Schwarzenegger, Arizona's Democratic governor, Janet Napolitano, and nine other governors are now demanding the Bush administration budget nearly a billion dollars to reimburse states for the cost of jailing criminal illegal aliens. More than 10 percent of the inmates in California state prisons are illegal aliens.
SEC. JAMES TILTON, CALIF. DEPT. OF CORRECTIONS: The Department of Corrections currently houses over 18,000 undocumented aliens, and the total impact on our budget is over $700 million in terms of the cost to provide services for that population.
WIAN: In a letter to the White House this week, the governors wrote, "These funds are critical in at least partially offsetting the costs incurred to taxpayers in our states as a result of the failure to control illegal entries..."
In 1995, former president Bill Clinton approved the State Criminal Alien Assistance Program, saying it was the federal government's responsibility to help states pay for convicted criminals who aren't in the U.S. legally. That same year then Texas governor Bush was even more direct, saying, "If the federal government cannot do its job of enforcing the borders...then it owes the states monies to pay for its failure."
But as president, Bush has tried to kill the program. A White House performance review says reimbursing states does not reduce crime committed by illegal aliens. It also claims the immigration status of many suspected aliens cannot be verified.
But many local law enforcement agencies are being trained to do just that by the Department of Homeland Security. Arizona's Maricopa County sheriff says he'll continue to target illegal aliens who commit crime.
SHERIFF JOE ARPAIO, MARICOPA COUNTY, ARIZONA: I'm going to do my job as the sheriff, and if the federal government wants to hamper my operations, it's not going to change my policies.
WIAN: It's a concern beyond border states. Most of the governors who signed the letter are Democrats and from states with no international border.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: Last year the White House cut all funds for the State Criminal Alien Assistance Program from its budget, but about half that money was eventually restored by Congress -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much.
Casey Wian.
Nashville, Tennessee, is joining the ranks of cities trying to tackle an influx of illegal aliens. The city council is considering three measures.
One is an English-first ordinance. And another would hold landlords responsible for renting to illegal aliens. And a third would punish businesses that hire illegals.
Now, the proposals must pass one more vote to become law. And such local efforts are deemed necessary because the federal government won't enforce laws already on the books. But in an ironic turn, the feds may be able to overturn what the locals are trying to do in court.
Bill Tucker reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED GROUP: USA! USA! USA!
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Escondido, California; Hazleton, Pennsylvania, Riverside, New Jersey; Farmers Branch, Texas; even Pahrump, Nevada. In towns all across the country, local governments are passing ordinances aimed at cracking down on illegal immigration in their communities.
MARIE WALDRON, ESCONDIDO CITY COUNCIL: The effects of the government -- the feds not enforcing the law -- is 100 percent local. We have to deal with the overcrowding in our neighborhoods, we have to deal with the overcrowding of our schools and the diseases that our children are exposed to. Our police department has to fight the gangs.
TUCKER: But as these towns fight illegal immigration on their own, they are faced with massive legal challenges. Challenges that come from a variety of legal activists, including the American Civil Liberties Union, the Puerto Rican Legal Defense and Educational Fund, and the Mexican-American Legal Defense and Educational Fund.
Each of these groups have their own lawyers, as well as attorneys from big law firms working pro bono, for free, arguing that the laws are unconstitutional. The fight could end up being expensive, but the lawyers representing several towns say they're willing to go all the way.
KRIS KOBACH, IMMIGRATION REFORM LAW INST.: Unlike so many small towns and cities across America over the past few decades that have rolled over whenever the ACLU marched in town with their legions of attorneys, these towns, Hazleton, Pennsylvania; Valley Park, Missouri; Escondido, California, have said, no, we're going to fight, we're going to pay the cost.
TUCKER: Hazleton has only a half a dozen lawyers on its side, standing against 24 in opposition in its ordinances to fight illegal immigration. The mayor of Hazleton says he's committed to taking the fight to the Supreme Court of the United States if necessary in an effort to affirm the town's right to impose sanctions based on federal laws.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: Now, lawyers say if these cases make it to the steps of the Supreme Court, it's likely they will all be combined into one. But Kitty, that could take a couple of years before it happens.
PILGRIM: You know, Bill, I've spent time in Hazleton, Pennsylvania, you have spent considerable time in Hazleton, Pennsylvania. The mayor expressed to me at one point he was quite concerned about the costs incurred in fighting this in court and pursuing this.
TUCKER: Well, and it is substantial. But it comes down to a couple of just raw financial facts where he's concerned.
For example, over six years, from 2000 to 2006, the cost in school budgets for English language learning classes went from $500 to $875,000. His police overtime budget, which has been routinely at $30,000 a year, right now, as of today, is at over $100,000.
So he's more than $70,000 over budget. And he's got to make that up somewhere. And he said, "It's worth it for me now to fight this all the way up because I really don't have any other choice."
PILGRIM: Interesting numbers.
Thanks very much.
Bill Tucker.
Well, that brings us to tonight's poll question. Do you believe that towns such as Hazleton should be forced into court to defend their ordinances aimed at cracking down on illegal aliens? Yes or no?
Cast your vote at LouDobbs.com and we'll bring you the results a little bit later in the broadcast.
A disturbing crime out of Veracruz, Mexico. The deputy editor of "Testimonia" (ph), which is a Mexican publication, was murdered yesterday. Roberto Garcia was knocked off his motorcycle by a PT Cruiser.
Now, the attackers dragged his body and then shot him at least six times. Garcia was the seventh journalist killed this year in Mexico. That makes it the second most dangerous country for the press. That's after Iraq.
Coming up, Americans are forced to choose between paying for necessities and celebrating the holiday season. Our special report, "War on the Middle Class."
Plus, top military brass want more troops and equipment for the war on terror in Afghanistan. But that could have implications for Iraq's strategy and a military that may be already stretched too thin.
Our panel of distinguished insiders in Washington will address that and much more.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Many middle class Americans will once again face a difficult choice this holiday season. Torn between buying gifts and finding the funds to pay for them, many say they will be spending less.
Lisa Sylvester has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Many middle class Americans are making their list and checking it twice, only to find out they're coming up short of cash. A recent consumer survey found one in three people will be spending less this holiday season.
BILL HAMPEL, CREDIT UNION NATIONAL: The primary reason is just the general level of household expenses. Because of the amount of expenses they already have, they don't have anything left over to spend on the holidays. It sort of suggests that most people live paycheck to paycheck, and so they don't have much set aside for holiday spending.
SYLVESTER: The survey by the Credit Union National Association and Consumer Federation of America suggests many shoppers are concerned about racking up added credit card debt during the holiday season. So they're scaling back.
MELINDA, HOLIDAY SHOPPER: Some of us are killing ourselves, and then we place ourselves in debt. And then next year comes around and you're paying back and you're going through the same regiment. So sometimes you want to break the cycle and try something else.
SYLVESTER: According to the consumer survey, 33 percent of Americans worry about credit card balances. That's up from 25 percent last year. Home heating costs, a jump in colleague expenses, slumping housing prices, job insecurities, it's all putting a crimp in the holiday spirit.
JOHN CHALLENGER, CHALLENGER, GRAY AND ASSOCIATES: It's getting harder to make payments, to make ends meet. That means when it comes to the holiday season, you're just more cautious about spending money on gifts.
SYLVESTER: The advice from the experts, set a budget for gifts this season and stick to it. Start thinking about saving for next year's holiday season.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: And even though it's still a couple of days from Black Friday, the holiday shopping season has started. The National Retail Federation expects the average consumer will spend about $800 this year on gift-giving -- Kitty.
PHILLIPS: Thanks very much.
Lisa Sylvester.
Coming up, an exclusive report on why more U.S. troops may be headed to Afghanistan. General David Grange will join me to discuss that harsh reality and a whole lot more.
Also, the midterm elections are barely behind us, but the next stop, the race for the White House. I'll be joined by three of the sharpest political minds to talk about the election year 2008.
And then Bill Schneider with his "Political Turkeys" of the year. And we're guessing that Bill had plenty of material to work with this time around. So stay with us for that.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Tonight's top stories -- a stark warning today from the top general in the Marine Corps. The war in Iraq and a Taliban resurgence in Afghanistan is putting a critical strain on our forces. President Bush will meet with the Iraqi prime minister next week in Jordan. They'll discuss the mounting pressure for the Iraqi government to take more of a role to stop the violence.
And the U.S. pledges support to Lebanon. Its democratically- elected government is on shaky ground the day after the assassination of a leading anti-Syrian political figure.
In another important news tonight, there will be new passport rules to get into this country. Beginning early next year, U.S., Mexican and Canadian citizens will need to present a passport to enter the United States when arriving from anywhere in North America, Central America, or South America. The Caribbean and Bermuda are also included in the new rule.
The Thanksgiving dash started early with long lines and delays at many airports. Nationwide, more than 38 million people are expected to travel more than 50 miles. And that's up a million people over last year.
A chemical plant explosion near Boston was felt all the way to Maine. The blast sparked a massive fire, blew debris for blocks and damaged up to 90 homes. The chemical plant, which made solvents and inks, was completely destroyed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. MITT ROMNEY (R), MASSACHUSETTS: The miracle is that you had the equivalent of a 2,000-pound bomb going off in a residential neighborhood at night when everybody's home and no one is dead and no one is severely injured.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: Now, the cause of the explosion is under investigation.
NATO's top commander in Afghanistan says the alliance doesn't have enough troops to keep the country secure. And he said more troops are needed. But the head of U.S. troops for the Middle East says all options are being considered.
Barbara Starr reports from Afghanistan.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As General John Abizaid, head of the Central Command, arrived in Kabul, Afghanistan on an unannounced visit to discuss the security situation here, the war in Iraq remains front and center.
CNN is the only network traveling with Abizaid. He paused to discuss the Bush administration's review of Iraq strategy, emphasizing that commanders are looking at all the options, including the possibility of boosting troop levels.
GEN. JOHN ABIZAID, CMDR., U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND: Options for troops for training, options for more combat troops are all being looked at, as well as options for less troops. But I could see a series of options coming together where you might have a short-term increase for specific reasons. It would have to be tied to a specific, broader plan.
STARR: Abizaid recently told Congress he didn't necessarily favor a troop increase or a timetable for troop withdrawal, leading some to suggest the military was not open to a change in Iraq's strategy.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: I regret deeply that you seem to think that the status quo and the rate of progress we're making is acceptable. I think most Americans do not.
ABIZAID: Well, Senator, I agree with you. The status quo is not acceptable.
I think everybody needs to understand that we're having a debate and a discussion and that all options are on the table.
STARR: Options being developed by Abizaid and other commanders will be reviewed by President Bush. Once decisions are made, then commanders will develop specific plans on how to implement those ideas. For example, assessments are underway on how much additional combat power might be needed in both Al Anbar province and Baghdad where attacks are heaviest.
Still, Abizaid made clear he believes a set timetable for withdrawal would limit the military's ability to respond to security conditions. He is leaning towards doubling the number of U.S. military trainers, although that in itself might not lead to significance increase in troops on the ground.
As for the other political option, talking to Iran and Syria about halting their support for insurgents and sectarian violence?
ABIZAID: I can only tell you that we've had military difficulties resulting from indirect support from Iran and Syria to groups that are not helpful.
STARR (on camera): The U.S. remains deeply concerned that Iranian-backed militias now operating inside Iraq may be so strong that the new Iraqi government simply will not be able to control them.
Barbara Starr, CNN, traveling with General Abizaid in Afghanistan.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Joining us now with his thoughts about the possibility of more U.S. forces in Afghanistan is our military analyst, General David Grange, and he joins us from Chicago.
Thanks for being here, sir.
BRIG. GEN. DAVID GRANGE (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Thank you. PILGRIM: You know, we reported earlier that General Abizaid said that he wants a temporary increase in troops. Last week before the Senate Armed Services Committee, he didn't indicate any increase. And then suddenly there's 2,200 troops moving to Al Anbar. Are we having mixed signals here?
GRANGE: No, I think that the 2,200 marines going to Anbar province -- I hope this is the case, anyway -- is the start of a reinforcement during this very critical four- to six-month period where, I think, the future of Iraq is going to be determined.
And I think it's better to have more than just enough in order to have the flexibility to do the different things, the different requirements in both Afghanistan and Iraq.
PILGRIM: Let me read a comment that he told CNN today. "I could see a series of options coming together where you might have a short term increase for a good reason and it would have to be tied to a specific plan."
Now, that plan is the open question. Is it a Pentagon call? Is it the Iraq Study Group call, White House plan? Where might this plan be coming from that he's looking at this?
GRANGE: The plan -- the military part of the plan will be done by General Abizaid's Central Command with approval from the Pentagon, the National Security Council, et cetera.
Other aspects come into that plan because there's a State Department piece to it, there's USAID, there's other government agencies that are involved in the holistic plan that will be approved and put together, considering recommendations from the separate study groups as well.
PILGRIM: Abizaid also said that he wants to double or he could consider doubling the training forces for the Iraqi forces -- the U.S. force -- doubling the U.S. forces. What do you think of that?
GRANGE: Well, I think that's probably necessary right now, because, obviously, one of the key issues is to provide trained and ready and loyal Iraqi forces to take on most of this fight and to establish the rule of law in a country which is their responsibility.
And it doesn't just mean you add another 10 to a 10-man team. You have to add the right skills, the right rank structure to get the right mix in order to provide that quality training.
I also think that there may be -- and I would personally recommend this -- that you would also do more combined operations. In other words, you would put whole U.S. units alongside whole Iraqi units so they fight side-by-side that give you some quality assurance, if that's some kind of a loyalty issue with a certainly faction instead of the Iraqi government.
PILGRIM: That's interesting. Let me bring up the commandant of the Marine Corps. General James Conway says the Marines in Iraq and Afghanistan are stretched. Let's listen to what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEN. JAMES CONWAY, U.S. MARINE CORPS COMMANDANT: I think we may lose some of those folks. I think that the families, the young Marines, the sailors will say that's just more than I think I'm willing to bear. And it could have some negative consequences for us in that regard.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: He's talking about the amount of time off that they get in between tours -- 180,000 Marines, he says that's a good level for peacetime. We're hardly at peacetime situation now, General?
GRANGE: Well, here's the issue on the rotation of forces. Whether you're on a seven-month tour or a 12-month tour, whatever, you need sufficient time to retrain. Well, one would say, well, why do you have to do that? You just came back from combat, you should be trained.
What happens is, you lose about 50 percent of the force on return back from a mission. That's regular troops as well as sergeants and officers. So you get all these new, green troops in, plus you get new leaders in that have to come together as a team. That takes time.
Then there's other training that must be done for other places in the world that we have contingencies for. That takes time. They have to reset all their equipment, which most of it's broken or just run hard and put away wet.
And lastly, and the most important, are the family issues, the moral aspects of missing Christmas, missing many Christmases, Thanksgivings, weddings, birthdays. All these things wear on military families. And with a force that's over, I think, 60 percent married, this is tough and this morale issue is something to be considered.
PILGRIM: Certainly at this time of year it's fairly obvious. General Conway also said that he thought that the Marines could sustain another conflict. What's your opinion of how strained the Marines are?
GRANGE: I think the Marines and the Army are strained immensely. And I think the -- both -- especially the ground forces, there must be an increase, not on the edges, a very large increase in forces in the Marine Corps and in the Army.
And that's not an easy task. There's two pieces to that. One is you have to have it approved by Congress and funded properly by Congress. And that usually is a little loose at times. And the second piece is that it's hard to get that many recruits out of our society today. So the recruiting challenge is immense.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much, General David Grange. And have a happy Thanksgiving.
GRANGE: Thank you very much. Same to you.
PILGRIM: Just ahead, I'll be joined by three of the country's sharpest political minds with their thoughts about the new Congress, the race for the White House and a whole lot more.
Also the scandals, the confessions, the just plain stupid comments made by our politicians in Washington. Bill Schneider wraps it all up with his top political turkeys of the year.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Joining me now, Democratic strategist Robert Zimmerman, James Taranto from the "Wall Street Journal" and "New York Daily News" columnist Errol Louis. And gentlemen, thank you for being here.
OK, let's start with -- we might as well just jump into it. The midterms are two seconds behind us and now we're going to start talking about the presidential race. We have a couple of polls. It's been a fun week. We have New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani, John McCain, both have filed a paper to create a presidential exploratory committee. And a new CNN poll conducted by Opinion Research Corporation registered Republicans list the nominees.
So let's take a look at the list. And they have Giuliani, choice for nominee in 2008, registered Republicans, Giuliani 33 percent. McCain 30 percent, Gingrich, nine percent, Romney, nine percent and Frist three percent. What do you make of these numbers?
ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: These patrols are like fantasy baseball because you can interpret them any way you want. And they're great to speculate upon. Ultimately they're really not relevant until the early caucus and primaries begin and the candidates are truly analyzed and exposed.
What's most curious is watching Rudy Giuliani because ultimately the Republican Party is going to decide whether they're going to try to be a mainstream party or ultimately end up a party that's because a party of just extreme right-wing Southerners. That's what this midterm showed. They lost their mainstream base.
PILGRIM: You know, I think fantasy baseball is nice, but it seems like an early chess game to me, where you're just moving things to set up. How are we setting up?
JAMES TARANTO, WALL STREET JOURNAL: Well I think Republicans have a tendency to nominate the guy who's next in line. They've done that just about every time for the past half century except in 1964.
So that would be John McCain. I think Giuliani is a lot stronger candidate than a lot of people realize, for this reason. The one criticism that's really caught on of President Bush, and I think not entirely fairly, but somewhat fairly is the criticism of incompetence.
And so people are going to look for who's competent and Giuliani clearly has a reputation for competency. He came in and governed a city that people said was ungovernable. He showed his strength after 9/11. And one other point. There are a lot of strikes Giuliani has against him on the social issues, for example, his complicated personal life.
My answer to that -- and we'll see whether I'm right or not is they say 9/11 changed everything. The one thing we don't know how it changed is Republican presidential politics because there hasn't been a contested nomination since then. It seems to me that if it changed that, it probably changed in a way that helped Giuliani.
PILGRIM: So are you saying Giuliani has the street cred.
ERROL LOUIS, NEW YORK DAILY NEWS: Aside from the fact the New York press corps is going to probably bring the rest of the nation up to date on the question of competence and how New York actually was governed.
In fact, some of the questions are really sort of deep and searching about what happened after 9/11. But in addition to that, we're going to have this factor of uneasy lies the head that wears the crowd. We've already seen this week, Mitt Romney, who was pretty far down in the pack at nine percent, taking a pretty hard shot at John McCain, the front runner. I mean, whoever is seen as the front runner is going to draw fire from the rest of the pack. And I think that's going to start to even up the numbers over the next year.
ZIMMERMAN: And it's kind of ironic to watch Mitt Romney, the governor of Massachusetts, gain growing support among the conservative support. The conservatives have a very uneasy relationship with McCain.
Romney's trying to fill that void and it makes my heart feel good to hear James Taranto to speak up for Rudy Giuliani after Giuliani opposed the Bush tax cuts, supports the rights of gays, supports of course the right of choice for women, and also of course is in favor of gun control. So there's some hope for the Republican Party if James is comfortable with that.
TARANTO: Well Giuliani and Romney are both from states where the Republicans have done very badly recently, states that are very heavily Democratic. They may turn out to be the mirror image of these Democratic southern governors who have managed to get elected in Republican times.
PILGRIM: Let's turn to the Democratic poll, which is also equally fun. A new CNN poll, Opinion Research Corporation, Hillary Clinton leads the field. This again is registered Democrats choice for the party nominee, 2008. Clinton, 33 percent. Obama, 15 percent, Edwards, 14 percent, Gore 14 percent and Kerry seven percent.
ZIMMERMAN: It shows it's a wide open field for that nomination. When you think about the fact that Barack Obama, who really is -- people love the image of Barack Obama without knowing who he is. And the fact he's risen to that level. And of course Al Gore, who says he's not planning to be a candidate, is scoring well in that poll.
It shows that Democrats are truly searching and exploring who they want to be their nominee. Obviously these polls test name recognition and Hillary Clinton does well in this poll. But there are still 70 percent of Democrats who are exploring other choices.
PILGRIM: Is it too close to the midterms to actually be talking about the Democrats' position?
TARANTO: Oh, it's never too close. I think Hillary is the prohibitive favorite. I think the fact that the Democrats won but Ned Lamont lost and Joe Lieberman prevailed means that the Democrats are not going to be forced to the left as much as they had, they otherwise might have been. That's going to help Hillary's position. I think Barack Obama is a very strong contender for the presidency in 2012 or 2016.
LOUIS: As a matter of strategy, it's interesting, Hillary raised $35 million. She spent more than half of that. So she actually goes into the presidential contest with much less money than people thought she was going to have. It makes it a little bit more of an event field. I think the real surprise here is that Kerry is just dead last, in single digits. He's been sending out e-mail every day. I know because I get it, he sends stuff to the press every single day. He was the presidential nominee.
ZIMMERMAN: He was also dead last, then he came back and won the Iowa caucuses. So don't discount.
LOUIS: I'd never do that, but the money primary is the first primary. And it's going to hurt anybody who's down at the bottom of the pack in either party, to be in single digits.
PILGRIM: And much was said about this Clinton depletion of funds in this contest.
TARANTO: I'm surprised Kerry is as high as he is. I think -- seven percent? I'm amazed that that many people still want him, especially after his so-called botched joke.
PILGRIM: Yes, well maybe they forget that joke quickly. Let's talk about Iraq. Tough week for Iraq. A lot of high-level meetings. Earlier in the week, the Pentagon released three possible strategies for dealing with the war. They call it go big, go long, go home. Is that a positive step? Where do we stand in this whole Iraq debate?
ZIMMERMAN: I think what's most critical is the fact that we now have a new Congress requiring and demanding a fresh approach to the situation. And taking and demanding that the administration take a look at new opportunities here to try to bring some stability to Iraq so we can resume the war on terror.
That's the most important aspect of this. Obviously the Baker/Hamilton commission provide one venue to do that and that's important. But I think likewise, it's up to the Democratic Congress now in their leadership role to meet their commitment, to hold the oversight hearings and do the due diligence that's required so that we can make sure our soldiers are in a battle that has an exit strategy and has a plan. TARANTO: Well, I would sort of agree with that. But I guess I would put it a little differently. I think now that the Democrats have won, they're no longer in a position where they're hoping to fail and benefit from failure. And I think now they will be more responsible. And that's a good thing. Everyone has a stake now in success. And I don't think we want an exit strategy, I think we want a victory strategy.
PILGRIM: And yes, we have so many plans, so many ideas. How are we going to coalesce them?
LOUIS: Well, the notion really was supposed to be that democracy would solve all of these ills. And that, I think, is -- the real take-home message is that you try it with the Palestinians, you get HAMAS. You try it in Lebanon, their Cedar Revolution is in grave danger. You try it in Iraq, and it doesn't seem to be holding off a civil war, so what happens next is...
ZIMMERMAN: You can't bring democracy -- you can't bring democracy by gunpoint. And that was the lesson of Iraq. And James, there was no one who's advocating failure. And we've got to move away from that kind of divisive rhetoric. The campaign's order. We have got to come together.
PILGRIM: Any last words from you, James?
TARANTO: Well, look, dictatorship by gunpoint didn't work, either.
PILGRIM: Gentlemen, we won't follow that tonight. But thank you.
TARANTO: Happy Thanksgiving.
PILGRIM: Happy Thanksgiving.
Just ahead, it's a list no one in Washington wants to be on. Bill Schneider's list of the top five political turkeys of the year. The countdown begins.
We return in a moment. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: It would be an understatement to say this year has been a tough one for politicians. Between the bribes, the kickbacks, the plain old dumb comments, politicians may have set a new record for missteps.
Bill Schneider reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST (voice-over): How do you become one of our "Political Turkeys of the Year"? By doing something pretty foolish. Let's see who makes the, um, cut. Turkey number five is an entire flock. Four House members resigned in disgrace in four separate scandals: Tom DeLay, indicted for campaign violations; Bob Ney, guilty of corruption in connection with the Jack Abramoff investigation; Mark Foley, under investigation for sending inappropriate messages to teenage former congressional pages; and Duke Cunningham, sentenced, after pleading guilty of accepting more than $2 million in bribes from defense contractors, including antique French furniture, a yacht, and a Rolls-Royce.
RANDY CUNNINGHAM, FORMER U.S. CONGRESSMAN: I broke the law, concealed my conduct, and disgraced my office.
SCHNEIDER: Who paid for this flock of turkeys? The Republican Party, which lost its majority in Congress.
Not all the top five are Republicans. Turkey number four, Democratic Representative William Jefferson, caught with $90,000 in the freezer, cold cash. What was it doing there?
REP. WILLIAM JEFFERSON (D), LOUISIANA: My lawyer has advised me not to talk about those things, so I will not.
SCHNEIDER: He's under investigation by the FBI for fraud, bribery, and conspiracy, and fighting to retain his seat in a runoff next month.
Turkey number three: When you go hunting, the idea is to shoot the bird, right? Maybe not if you're the vice president, and end up shooting a fellow hunter.
RICHARD B. CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Actually, I'm feeling pretty comfortable up here. The lighting could be better.
(LAUGHTER)
CHENEY: I can still see the whites of your eyes.
(LAUGHTER)
SCHNEIDER: Thank goodness Cheney's friend is OK. This time, the turkey was on the other end of the gun.
Turkey number two: John Kerry makes a joke, sort of, a very bad joke.
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: You know, education, if you make the most of it, and you study hard, and you do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart, you -- you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq.
SCHNEIDER: Only, the troops in Iraq didn't find it so funny. And it certainly won't help if Kerry decides to run in '08.
Turkey number: the macaca moment.
SEN. GEORGE ALLEN (R), VIRGINIA: So, welcome. Let's give a welcome to macaca here.
Welcome to America and the real world of Virginia.
(APPLAUSE)
SCHNEIDER: George Allen's remark to a staffer of his opponent helped cost him his Senate seat and his party's Senate majority.
As it happens, a macaca is a monkey, a monkey who turned a senator into a turkey.
Bill Schneider, CNN, Washington
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Still ahead, the results of tonight's poll and some more of your thoughts.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Now the results of tonight's poll: 96 percent of you do not believe towns such as Hazleton, Pennsylvania should be forced to defend ordinances cracking down on illegal aliens in their communities.
Time now for more of your thoughts.
Dan in Ohio: "Personally, I don't care whether a politician is a Democrat, Republican or independent... I do care that he puts the country first and he should know that he serves at the pleasure of ordinary citizens, not corporate tycoons."
Brian in Connecticut: "Illegal is illegal. This is a country of laws. Why should we give amnesty to criminals? Why not give amnesty to every criminal in this country if we give amnesty to illegal aliens?"
Do send us your thoughts at LouDobbs.com.
Thanks for being with us tonight.
Good night from New York.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.voxant.com
